house in the administration. i put ray price and len garmin and people like that, brad patterson, the whole group of people that i put on the bright side and some who went over to the dark side. >> is there something you could have done that you didn't? >> i don't know. i worry and wonder about that. i do know when john dean's book came out i was shocked because this guy was working down the hall three doors down. i was in the corner office and he was in the middle. a big suite of offices right in the middle. it was like a mafia operation going on down there. i didn't know that. it was -- maybe i should have inquired. maybe i should have asked harder

questions than i did but even -- i'm not even sure. fred fielding was working in the john dean suite and friends, terrific guy, well respected since. i'm not sure he understood. but when i read the john dean book i came away feeling like there was a white house within a white house that i didn't know anything about. i didn't even know it existed. and i had come to believe that the white house can be more compartmentalized than you would think. look, i work for two or three years next to -- sitting next to mike dever in the west wing in the reagan administration. i knew mike had a glass of wine. i knew he liked terrific wine. i didn't know he was an alcoholic. i didn't know he had a dependency. there's a tendency i think if you're working in the white house to -- you're so focused on the job at hand and you have so much coming at you so fast that maybe you are blind to some

things going on around you. there is a famous experiment psychologists have that putting a group of people in a room and saying we have a ball we're going to ask you to toss back and forth and we want you to toss this as fast as you can and count the number -- see how many times you can do it without dropping it. so you get six or seven people tossing that ball around and about and this has been filmed. if you watch the film, i've shown this to a class. okay. i want you to watch this film and tell me how many balls get dropped so people intently watch that film. you get all sorts -- i say did you notice anything else about the film? what are you talking about? did you see the bear? bear?

you didn't see the bear? i want you to watch the film again. so you show the film again. and there's a person dressed in a back bear costume who walks through the middle of that group of people throwing that ball back and forth. most people watching the film never see the bear. they're watching the ball and they don't see the bear. i sort of thought to myself, that was sort of what it was like working in the nixon white house. you didn't see the bear. you didn't see what was obvious when it was over, but you didn't see it when it was there. it is -- like i have regrets about a lot of things i did in public life. things i should have done better. places i should have blown the whistle. times maybe i should have left. i didn't feel that so much about watergate. i really felt most of us did not understand until pretty close to the end. and once we understood it was over. >> what did you think of the

pardon? >> i thought the pardon of richard nixon was the right thing to do. i thought it was a brave thing to do. i thought jerry ford deserved the honor when the john f. kennedy library some years later gave him the kennedy medal for bravery citing the watergate -- the pardon of richard nixon. i thought it was the right thing to do. i also thought it was as a little matter handled very clumsily so that it was a complete shock to the country. i remember it happened at 11:00 on a sunday, about 30 days into the presidency of jerry ford. i was working for president ford at that time. of course, i was an outsider because i was a nixon person. and they brp were about to repl me, which i didn't know. i remember driving with my wife. we were coming back from church

or something. we heard the news of the pardon. i near went in the ditch. i was stunned at the pardon. and the reason i thought it was clumsily handled is there was no preparation of the public. there was no balloon that went up, trial balloon. instead, there had been the, no, we're not doing that. we would never do that. even if we were to think about that it wouldn't be until all the legal avenues were exhausted. we were talking two or three months. so i think -- as i say, i think jerry ford did the right thing and i think he paid a huge price for it because it clearly was a major, major factor in his defeat at the hands of jimmy carter. may have cost him the presidency. it was a brave thing to do. i thought, wow, you could have thought that one through. and it's -- it goes to some

things that happen in the nixon administration. and it's a tendency in the white house, on the most sensitive issues, the more sensitive the issue, the smaller the circle of people the president likes to consult. because of leaks. and so an issue in which really should require a lot of different voices tends to have just one or two or three voices. and in this case, jerry ford just made up his mind. he can be a very stubborn man when he doesn't -- and jerry ford, i to this day do not believe there was any deal with al hague. i think he did it to preserve his capacity of governing as president. i think just for what he said. that he couldn't -- it was taking up all his time. i believe to this day that jerry ford is one of the most honest

people we've ever had in the white house. and i think one of the least appreciated presidents. al simpson when i introduced him once at the kennedy school, al simpson came back and said, you know, if -- if you have integrity as president, nothing else matters. if you don't have integrity as president, nothing else matters. and i thought that had some real application to ford. and possibly, you know, you could argue nixon. but i am a big, big ford fan, and it was a very different environment working for ford. this was a much more transparent, you didn't have to put your back against the wall. you didn't know whether knives were coming at you in the dark. and there was not a lot of this compartmentalization. not as excessive. there was some but not as excessive as in the nixon day. i come back to this. nixon, you cannot get away from the fact that nixon came up to these very dark passages in

politics and that he believed that politics was the law of the jungle. and the law of the jungle was you're either -- you either eat or you're eaten. and you have to make a choice. and he felt people were either for you or against you. they're not neutral. that led to a certain paranoia. in fact, a lot of paranoia. and it led to a very, very dark view of human nature. and a very dark view -- sort of a hobbsian view of human nature and a very dark view of how the game is played. he deeply believed that the kennedys engaged in a lot of the bugging, but he'd been bugged. he deeply believed the kennedys always got away with a lot of stuff in politics he couldn't get away with. that he had been in a variety of ways, you know, always treated

dismissively by the swells. even though he got into harvard, you know, he still believed he was the -- whatever they were called way back then. but by the time he got to the white house you had this part of richard nixon who was the quaker, who wanted to bring good things, who really believed it when he went out and talk to those kids at the memorial -- lincoln memorial and was deeply cared about the country, who saw billy graham as a -- and billy graham saw him as a saving figure. and he had a redemptive quality about him. and there was this dark, resentful, boring, angry richard nixon, too. and it made him the most fascinating man i've ever known in public life and maybe was the most tragic. i do want to add one thing about

the bright side because i've written about -- i believe this. the nixon -- richard nixon was the best strategist i've ever met in public life, and i've known a lot. he had this capacity to sort of go up on the mountain top and look out into the future about 20 years. figure out how the forces of history were going to unfold and try to bend those forces to favor america's national security interest. he was a real visionary in going to china and understanding if you could break apart the chinese from the soviets and play off one against the other, it could be the end of the empire against the united states. and, you know, nixon to china has now become obviously a metaphor in our life, our public life. but nixon could pull that off. and i've always admired that part of him, and i believe to this day that it came -- that

his capacity for strategic thinking came from an extraordinary amount of discipline and hard work and a lot of reading. i've never known a president who took history as seriously as he did, who drew as much from it. i remember so well when he would ask -- ask pat moynihan for a list of books he could read late at night. he gave him this list. >> -- >> and that was even after -- i didn't know moynihan in those days. but i remember to this day when after moynihan left, the -- nixon would bring up the disraeli book. he recommended it to me to read, which i got a copy of and it was a biography. of course moynihan introduced -- wanted to talk about disraeli because he was the conservative prime minister who brought the welfare state to britain. just as bismarck had been a

conservative bringing the welfare state to germany. and nixon was the only republican who has ever proposed universal health care insurance. and it was very -- and that part of the domestic life would have been reading that kind of history, understanding that. the arguments he would have with kissinger about the generals of world war i. i thought gave him an understanding. churchill once said that a person looks farther back and history can also see farther forward. and i thought that was true of nixon. i thought he could see farther ahead. and it was one of his blessings in life. he had a lot of curses but he did have some blessings. and that is -- that reflective part of his presidency, you know, coming out with those yellow pads and sitting and thinking over in the -- i used to visit him sometimes in a hideaway office and talk to him.

he'd talk about history and he'd want to talk about history in cabinet meetings. you can just disagree, but i think about -- drawing parallels from history, drawing understanding from that, what improved his strategic thinking. i thought it brought an extra dimension to his leadership. on the disraeli point, i had this experience. i went to the dedication of the nixon library, and he was there. and two things were -- sort of struck me going through there. first, i went through the receiving line and bob halderman was just in front of me. and halderman got up to see nixon and nixon didn't recognize him. they hadn't seen each other in such a long time. they literally -- and he literally didn't catch who he was. bob halderman had been central to his presidency. but the other thing was, when i got up, i was sort of toward the end of the line, and nixon said, come on. i want to show you some of the

library. we walked around together. and what was really striking was, he said, i want you to see this part of the library first. we walked through the domestic side of the library. i want you to know my domestic presidency was as important to me as my foreign policy. we never thought that when he was president. he used to be -- make disparaging remarks about being a domestic president. the real issues were in the foreign policy side. of course, he devoted most of his time. but he was very proud of the domestic legacy and wanted to talk about the war on cancer and what he'd done in health care and his efforts on the environment and, you know, he brought us the epa. he'd lost on health care, of course. he'd lost on welfare. some of the welfare reform. but one of the reasons that i remain more of a nixon fan than many others is because i did

think he was the last moderate to liberal republican domestic president. i did respect what -- some of my colleagues of that day had became more conservative after they left the white house. i found myself especially after i left the reagan white house, but i became more of a journalist and had a chance to see what was going on around the country. but i went left on domestic policy. i became much more -- i'm still a hawk on foreign policy and believe strongly in that, but i am -- i happen to believe in free trade, and i believe you are in favor of globalization, in favor of free trade, you have to be in favor of a high safety net for people who get chopped up in this system. if you're going to have a highly competitive system, it's really, really important to have a system that's caring about the folks who are not making it. and i -- you know, the lincoln part of the legacy in the republican party is very important to me. the civil rights part of it.

part of, you know, nixon -- there were more children who started going to integrated schools in the south where i am from under richard nixon than any other president. a lot happened on the positive way. and i relate very much to that part of his legacy. i think it was important. i am glad, and there were a lot of moderates who came out of that. there were a lot of very good people who work for richard nixon. richard nixon had a dark side but also had a real eye for good talent on the bright side and he brought a huge number of good people into public service who went on to serve with distinction in the ford administration. many of them wanted to work for richard nixon and a great many went on to work for george w. bush. but they went on and did very good things in life. we didn't turn into -- and so a lot of those associates i'm very proud of. but i thought nixon left a legacy that republicans should be proud of. i believe that environmental protection was positive.

i think his ideas on health care, trying get universal coverage are right. i happen to be more for a private system than some of the democrats. but he is -- i think there is much there that in that legacy that people can look back upon and say deeply tragic, flawed president did enormous damage to the presidency but let's remember the whole of richard nixon and who he was. >> which is what president clinton said. >> yeah. >> and perhaps now we know who helped inspire that. i'm not sure if -- i don't know if you hadn't been on that plane with him, whether the president would have said it. >> we talked about it a lot going out on the plane. it was the right epithet for richard nixon. >> david gergen, thank you for your time today. >> thank you, tim. it was a pleasure and a privilege to be here. >> former president bill clinton

and white house senior adviser valerie jarrett speak thursday at the annual conference of the u.s. export/import bank. participants gather here in washington to discuss how the u.s. can bolster american exports. during his first year in office, president obama set a goal of doubling exports over five years. you can see the event live thursday at 8:45 a.m. eastern here on c-span3. and as congress continues its two-week recess, all this week we're showing you american history tv programming in primetime. tomorrow, programs from the civil war navy conference as it marks its 150th anniversary of the battle of hampton roads. that event was the first time in history that iron clad ships faced off in battle. see those events tomorrow beginning at 8:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span3. april 15th, 1912, nearly

1500 perish on the ship called unsinkable. >> once the lookout bells were sounded, the lookout, once the lookout sighted an iceberg ahead, they struck the bells in the crow's nest three times, ding, ding, ding, which is a warning saying that there's some object ahead. doesn't mean dead head ahead. and it doesn't say what kind of object. what the lookout then did after they struck the bell. he went to a telephone in the nest and called down to the officer on he bridge to tell them what it is that they saw. and when the phone was finally answered, the entire conversation was what do you see? and the response was, iceberg right ahead. and the response from the officer was, thank you. >> samuel halpern on the truthss and myths of that night. sunday at 4:00 p.m. eastern. part of american history tv this weekend on c-span3. this is c-span3 with

politics and public affairs programming throughout the week and every weekend, 48 hours of people and events telling the american story on "american history tv." get our