at the citadel. >> thank you, sir. [ applause ] >> what year does it take effect? >> 1772, sir. >> it probably worked better when i was only 78. then, i would have taken you. all right. thank you. >> thank you all. sfwhoo looking back 30 years in the past and trying to recall as accurately as had can what the experiences were like can be difficult. hair memories are going to be filtered through the lens of 40 years of experience and they have had time to reflect on their experiences in the war.

and what they have seen afterward and all of these things that go into shape someone's memory can filter. wry want to use the word warped because i think that's too strong but can certainly filter someone's memory in way you have to be careful to try to understand, i think, the gist of what someone is saying. they are being honest and honest and forthright. there is just -- an immense amount of valuable, accurate information we can get from the oral history interviews. i have -- another thing that comes up occasionally is that maybe we will touch on an interview, touch on a difficult topic, difficult subject for someone to deal with. i'm sure you can understand that when these people were thrust

into a war, there is a lot of vulnerability there, i think. oftentimes there is an unfortunate sense of loss. it can be difficult. we try to use common sense and treat them with as much we can. we would rather stop and we stop and move on to the next topic. those are two of the things i think that are most important.

every weekend american history tv brings you oral histories. first person accounts of the events and people that have shaped our history. recently we have been featuring oral histories from the vietnam archive at texas tech university in lubbock. an excerpt of oral history project kelly craiger as he describes the history and importance of the project. >> 40 years after the full scale engagement between u.s. rooms and people's army of vietnam the vietnam archive at texas tech university in lubbock interviewed veterans from the battles. it was after the battles waged in 1965 that north vietnamese forces grant engaging in guerrilla warfare. the americans outnumbered by the north vietnamese army prevailed but it was at a heavy cost.

up next, an interview with the medal of honor recipient captain ed "too tall" freeman, helicopter pilot who flew his helicopter in to help deliver ammunition, supplies and to rescue wounded soldiers. >> a video or history interview with major ed freeman. we are commemorating the 40th anniversary. thank you for doing this. i want to ask you about your memories of your days and if you could before we get to some of the specific things that happened, can you tell me about your training for those type of conditions and i know talking

about the pilots had you to throw things out the door and improvise. can you tell me what you brought into this battle? >> experience. >> i was already an experience ed pilot. i ran a year of mapping. i had been in south and central america for four years doing the same basic job. same basic job. >> right. >> so i had quite a bit of experience. >> and you had some interesting experience in korea. >> yes. and as far as battle is concerned, war is concerned, i felt the sting of battle when i was very young. >> you were at pork chop hill?

>> yes. >> did being on the ground then in korea, and as you said, feeling the sting of battle in that sense, help you, those days in november supporting colonel crandall? >> absolutely. i understand war a little better than i had when i first encountered it, mm-hmm. >> okay. so tell me about bruce crandall? what was he like? and him as a commander? >> he was a tremendous leader. almost to a point of a little bit dangerous. i'll give you an example. we were coming back in one evening, from a operation, and had been inserting troops, and we were empty. and we come in near this one village and we had normally received fire from that village, and he came in with the radio and says, yellow "x" to one of the other pilots, take over the flight, and he says, follow me

freeman. you know, circuit 2-6, roger. and we peeled off from the formation, dropped down and started out over this village. and we flew around the village for awhile. we landed, come back and i says pray tell, why did we do that? and he says, to see if we could draw some fire and i started to punch him out but i didn't, because he was my friend and also my commander. but, he was trying to draw fire, at which at the time we would have called in gunships to take care of the problem. >> right. >> but i told him we can find other ways to draw fire other than that, especially if it's just me. >> so a good leader. how about communication? you all have to really talk to each other up there when you're flying? and how important was that? and how were you two together? >> we worked together real well. you got to remember we were in panama. together. and then he was in costa rica

and i was in managua, nicaragua and we were on many missions together. we went to advanced engineering school together. a year-long course. i watched his kids grow up, he, of course, mine. both of our families kind of grew up together. and he's a outstanding individual. >> what do you know, then, what did you know about colonel moore? >> i didn't know colonel moore until i arrived in vietnam and got acquainted with him. of course. having to support his organization first to the seventh, most of the time as far as i know, we were almost assigned to him, as each unit, depending on their numbers, was assigned to a battle one, and we drew colonel moore's battle one, first and seventh. and i got to know him real well. as a matter of fact, i'm an honorary member of the first and the seventh.

after the battle of ia drang he called bruce and i in to his office tent and made us honorary members, and i'm -- i signed a -- a document, and i have a medallion, and my number is 11, bruce's is number 10. >> mm-hmm. >> so we're honorary members of the first and the seventh. >> tell me about how moore was as a person? what was he like on the field? and especially those three days? >> he was firm and he believed in training above everything else. and discipline. and when you have that it makes for a better battle for your soldiers to be very disciplined. i found this and i compared it to what i run into in korea, i had a hodge matadge group of people, some cooks, some truck drivers, and i'm not bad mouthing any of them, but they were not trained.

it was an entirely different situation to be with a trained and a highly skilled organization versus one that wasn't. >> well, let's go to november 12th and 13th, before the insertion of the 14th. what were your preparations, and what were you all expecting? >> i don't think we expected what we were got, because our intel says there is suspected enemy activity in the area. >> right. >> and that suspected enemy activity turned out to be three regiments. and they met us on the fifth lift. we have not one round was fired for the first five times we went in there -- four times we went in. on the fifth one, they arrived. and did they announce their arrival. and they really worked us over. >> tell me about that first -- the first time you did come under fire from them.

>> well, it was such a surprise, i guess, because we were -- you know, you almost get complacent doing this for the four trips, and almost brought back to well, i guess they all went home or whatever. >> right. >> then all of a sudden they open it up and it tightens up things and you begin to reassess your position. >> mm-hmm. >> in life. but, we lost quite a few helicopters. it was damage beyond repair. some of them could make it back to the pickup zone. >> right. >> but it was a fierce battle, just instantly, and it just like turning a switch on. and it happened. >> what were you getting shot with? what was coming at you? >> ak 47s mostly and some machine-gun fire. but i'd say 90% was ak-47s. because that was their primary weapon. and they travel light. but occasionally, you would enter an area where they had light machine guns, and occasionally also, but seldom you'd run into 51 caliber machine guns. >> right. >> and i did that once, it

wasn't in iran -- the ia drang valley. but one of them hit my rotor system and knocked a hole that you could put your hand through, your fist through the main rotor blade. and i expected the fall in a minute or break but it didn't. it didn't hit the spar so it just made a deathly noise. but most of the time it was ak-47s. >> let me ask you something about operating in that kind of environment, when it just got, like you said, instantaneously very dangerous, very lethal. first of all, for yourself personally, how do you continue to fly? i know you have -- you're following your commander, you're under orders, you want to support the people on the ground, but what's going through your mind personally? and what are you feeling when you're coming in to this -- to the lz x-ray and you're really getting hit with it? >> training. the only difference in a

training mission and a combat mission is a combat mission, add bullets. remind yourself that you can't change that is -- what is going on about you at that particular time. and i always have the -- the mindset that it is more honorable to let the enemy kill you than to kill yourself. and if you -- if you get carried away with this fear, and anxiety, of what's happening, you can hurt somebody, including those around you, you make mistakes. so stick to your lesson plan and fly the ship at all costs. do not -- to the last second, continue to hammer your equipment as you needed to to make a successful approach in to where you was going. and sometimes that can be pretty

tough. >> yes. >> to go through this horrible terrain and tall trees everywhere. that was the lz x-ray trees about 260 feet tall surrounded. and it was less than just a little short of the size of a football field the area was. >> so it was very tight? >> very tight. and very confining because you had to have some skill, had to have a lot of skill to get in and out of there successfully without damaging the aircraft, against obstacles. >> was fear a part of your day? >> absolutely. but, controlled fear, if you made -- if you don't, it will devour you. and again, go back to i can't change things. >> right. >> and another thing i had, i didn't expect to survive, because i had been in a tremendous battle before, and who am i to say i'm the chosen one and i will be spared. but i'll tell you, two things in the situation of combat. you need some skills, and you need some luck. it's like playing texas

hold 'em. >> mm-hmm. >> and i do that. i play texas hold 'em, as well. but both of those are involved, and i think they equally -- they play an equal part, possibly. but the skill is a must if you're going to successfully perform the duties that is going to sign you and do it safely. >> right. >> because it would be a shame to splatter a load of troops all over the hill if your mission was to get them into battle. at least get them in there and let the enemy take care of the rest of the problem. >> when did that hit you? you're probably not going to survive this. when did you have this realization? when did you have this realization that i'm not going to survive this? i'm not the chosen one. did you have that conscious thought during on the 14th? >> i had it when i walked down the pier in mobile, alabama, i walked down the pier and got on

a baby flat top and i had been to a war before, and i explained to my wife, i says there's a good chance that i won't return, make sure you take care of the kids, and hopefully i'll see you, but don't expect any miracles. and i walked away. and my oldest brother was with me. and he says, it must be awful exciting knowing you're going off to war. i says, yes, i'm about to pee in my pants. i was so excited. but he meant well. and it was exciting. in -- the most exciting thing that's ever happened to me is to be in a formation of 100 helicopters going to battle. i've never smoked marijuana, but if you want a high, try that one. of 100 ship formation. >> tell me about sunday november 14th, and how that day evolved, and what you and bruce did. >> it was a normal, supposingly, operation.

and we did everything the same. we prepped the area with artillery. and we was to arrive 30 seconds after the last white phosphorus hit the ground. and that was -- and we did that exactly. >> and you were -- were you mapping the earth at that point? >> yes, right, absolutely. and we -- and this is the first -- first sight, first landing in that area. >> mm-hmm. >> and we did this, and come charging in, and of course, again, we were just not disappointed but surprised that nobody was firing back at us. >> right. and you were number two behind -- >> always number two in that slot. thank you. >> so moore was in the first chopper, moore and dillon, crumbly. >> he was in bruce crandall's chopper. >> who was there with you, do you remember? >> i had company commanders and i'm not sure the names of any of them. >> right. >> but there was a number of them. four or five. four i think it was. they're all uniformed.

that's the first uniformed soldiers we saw in the country. before that it was guys in pajamas, black pajamas they call this pc and they were rice farmers during the day and dc at night and they'd lay down their holes and get their ak-47, go harass the americans. >> mm-hmm. what do you remember, coming in on the fifth time, then it gets hotter. colonel moore was at this point at the cp, and you all were beginning to extract at this point? or were you still landing, going back? >> no. we were -- after the fifth landing. >> yes. >> we all left and went back to the pickup point, and he called, colonel moore did and says no more helicopters can come in to the landing zone. you can't survive. well, i'm a little smarter than i know that he had to vamp mission, because basic load, if i remember right, was about 100 rounds per person.

and it doesn't take long to empty 100 rounds of ammunition in an m-16s. so i -- somebody says it ain't going to work. somebody's going to have to go back in there if them people are going to survive. because without ammo, ammunition, the enemy would have methodically killed every member of the organization once they ran out of ammunition, right? >> mm-hmm. >> so, we licked our wounds and decided what helicopters could fly and which ones couldn't, and got everything rearranged and assigned, okay, this will work and i'll take it back in, and you take this one and we assigned the pilots, you know, helicopters, if theirs was beyond flight, unsafe flight. >> right. >> and about probably 45 minutes, if i remember the time, in a time kind of blurry. >> mm-hmm. >> we got a call from colonel moore. he says, i need one volunteer to

come in zone x-ray, bring ammunition, water and medicine and haul out my wounded. and there was probably 30-plus pilots standing there. now we're talking young, 20-year-old officers, never heard shot fired in anger and had just come out of the fierce fight that we would come out of, and not a soul moved a muscle. and i don't blame any of them and i says i got it and i started walking towards my helicopter. and it was already loaded because i had planned -- >> mm-hmm. >> that this had to happen. and as i crawled in and hit the starter, frank moreno, angel and james all started crowding into my helicopter. that was my crew. my crew chief, my gunner and frank being my co-pilot. i don't call him a co-pilot i call him a shared cockpit with me.

>> mm-hmm. >> and i says get out of the helicopter. and he says, no, sir, we're crew and we're going with you. and i finally looked at frank and i says, you know, frank, this will probably be the longest day of your life. he says, yes, sir, i know that. i says, frank, it may be the last day of your life. he says, yes, sir, i know that. i says, you still going? he says, yes, sir. i says, lock 'em up, let's roll. and 14.5 hours after that i shut it down. but i missed a gap here. as i did this, bruce crandall came running out, he says i'm going, too. and i said, bruce, what's going to happen to the company when you get zapped? he said, we'll worry about that when it happens. and -- and we joined up, and formation, and we -- our last flight was at 10:30 at night. >> the two of you? >> the two of us over the top of them 250 foot trees with a kid standing with a flashlight holding that flashlight. and let me tell you about a flashlight. back up just one minute. >> sure.

>> i was an instructor for two years in hueys. and one of my tests was to bury a six-cell flash light, six-cell flashlight in the ground and turn it on and put it near the runway, off the side of the runway at a training field we had and turn the light on and take the helicopter to 1,000 feet above the terrain and give it to the student and shut the engine down. and his job was to do a 360 degree turn, and when he stopped, i wanted to see that light shining up between his feet. and if you didn't do it you got a pink slip that day and you the air force individual knows about pink slips don't you captain? anybody that ever -- >> so you were -- >> so i was prepared, because i i wanted to train and i wanted to be in total charge of that piece of equipment. and i could make it almost talk.

and i still felt bruce crandall, i'm the world's greatest helicopter pilot and he's second. but we'll argue but about that. and i was prepared and i could make it do what it was capable of doing. and that was what i require of my students because that is called insurance. >> mm-hmm. >> if you know your machine and you know it well, and you know how to operate it well and you know anything that happens in between that everything is good, you can identify it and take action to prevent a catastrophic failure of whatever. >> yes. how many -- when you two took back off, how many lifts did you do in 14 1/2 hours? >> you do the math. it was 13-minute flight each direction. and we flew 14.5 hours. >> eight. >> i don't remember but somewhere in my citation they -- they put a number of about 30 that i evacuated. >> mm-hmm.

>> and i -- of course i couldn't count but i tell you what i was in that hospitality room today and about 20 guys walked up to me and says thank you, ed, if it hadn't been for you i would have died in lz x-ray and i says i wish i could have remembered your name. i can't even remember your face. >> you come in, you wait for them to do their work in the back? offloading, onloading, and you go? >> yeah. >> are you -- you're holding in the cockpit? >> yeah. never got out of it. i stood on the skiff and took a leak and did the controls while frank ate a can of beanie weenies and he did the same for me while i ate a can of beanie weenies. you never know what is hit because it's going to break or come loose a little later. >> sure. >> so if it's doubtful, you just go ahead and drop it, let the maintenance people look at it and figure it out. >> mm-hmm. >> but obviously sometimes they take a rotor off.

not in my case. but we had rotors shot off. we've had fuel lines and always in the belly of the fuel but we had a self-sealing fuel system and it would only go down to a third of a tank and it would seal itself. and if you ever been in a helicopter and nothing but fumes of jet fuel hit you in the face, well it's a matter of seconds until we hit a big ball of fire and it's over with. because that's exactly what you're thinking. >> mm-hmm. >> and why it doesn't blow up i don't know. because it's spewing fuel and we're running an engine up here at 900 degrees centigrade. and that's quite a bit of fire up there. >> hum. >> but fortunately it didn't. >> tell me more about as you, that day goes through you're coming in and going out and dusk is falling, can you describe the evolution of that day, after you and bruce decided to continue to go back? what happened? >> give me that question again.

>> as you go through that day, when you and bruce make the decision to go back, and start flying, those 14 1/2 hours together, what happened on the ground of x-ray? what were the differences? what did you see as the day went on and then into the night? >> well, the night was probably the biggest fireworks that you've ever laid eyes on. i mean, of course we we would ask to lay down protective fire on when we'd come on short final and the infantry would start shooting at the enemy to try to keep their heads down while we were on the ground, offloading and loading the injured shoulders. but it was a blur basically, i can't even recall 15 hours other than the fact just to cut the times of the eat and the sea rations and taking leak from standing on the skid and jumping back in and going. because we would not waste any time, because they needed every

round of ammunition and every band-aid, every first aid kit that we could muster, and all the water that we could haul and those troops needed that bad. so we wasted no time in shoving in and out. >> what do you remember about colonel moore as that day went on? was he -- he was on the horn with bruce. were you talking with him as well? >> absolutely. absolutely. i monitored all communications. now we didn't exactly tell other pilots that, because it gets cluttered if you get too many people chatting at the same time. >> sure. >> so we say take over 1400 pounds of fuel that followed us and don't talk. you know. because you -- you don't describe everything to him, because it's just probably better. >> right. >> but yes, we discussed -- that he would -- colonel moore would tell us if the lz was hot, or

warm, or whatever. >> mm-hmm. >> and advise us, and sometimes he'd say, move to the west side a little bit, because we have had a push coming in to the east or whatever. >> right. >> so he'd air traffic controller so to speak. >> uh-huh. >> and then the last flight in at 10:30, he says, don't come back in, he says, i can survive till daylight, and i wanted to get out and go kiss him but i knew better you know. don't tell thing, you know. >> right. >> but i didn't. but, we went back in in and landed, and bruce did and i was at about the same thing. and at daylight, first day, crack of day bruce started it all over again and we flew all day that day, and the following day. we did this for three days. >> in the movie it portrays bruce vomiting and then he's accosted by this other gentleman. did that happen? >> yes.

>> tell me about it. >> that was the medevac pilots that refused to go in -- in to the landing zone because it was hot. but i mean in defense of medevac pilots, i know some good ones, and it was not their policy, it was the headquarters policy and i wanted to transfer, because if you couldn't land in a hot lz i wanted to be in that outfit. >> sure. >> but i thought why are you here if you can't land in a hot lz? that don't make any sense at all. >> mm-hmm. >> but i didn't blame the individual. i blamed the people that made it. but bruce was going to go over and i think maybe shoot him and i took the gun away from bruce and explained that we didn't shoot our own and that i was going to shoot both of them if they kept screwing around and i was pissed, too. so, they -- it -- it -- it blew over and nothing came of it, and but bruce was very hot.