for example, they would have an arrangement with a contractor to replace an exhaust fan and they would use their purchase card to charge $2,000 or $1,000 for replacement of a fan. in reality, the fan cost $80. so, the contractor then would kickback part of that money to the contracting -- the property manager. so, 11 property managers and contractors were convicted earlier this year, august 2011. >> mr. miller, in terms of perspective, is the waste, fraud and abuse at gsa improving or getting worse overall? you've had a real perspective here, looking at this big picture issue. >> well, we continue to look at the larger systems, too. because we do audits of programs of gsa. and gsa -- we do audit programs regularly at gsa.

having conferences is not a program of gsa. so it's not one of the regular things we audit. we will start now. but we audit their systems and we look at their work yearly. and we find more and more fraud, waste and abuse. i don't know that we've sat back and compared how much fraud there is year by year. fraud by its very nature is hidden. and i'm happy that thanks to the hard work of our special agents, auditors, forensic auditors and lawyers, we're uncovering more and more fraud. >> well, the last two gsa administrators have had to resign. is there something about gsa? could you tell us why we're seeing that many scandals at gsa? what can you enlighten us on there? >> gsa handles a lot of money, millions, maybe billions of dollars flow through gsa. it handles a lot of money.

handles a lot of property. there are a lot of contracts that it controls. there's a lot of temptation. and with over 12,000 employees, you're going to find criminal conduct, stupid conduct and just plain negligence. so it's a large operation with a lot of employees. and so you do have criminal activity. >> madame chair, i see i'm out of time. i have one more question if i could have your indulgence here. i would like to ask the acting administrator, is this scandal going to distract gsa from doing its job, such as constructing essential federal facilities like the columbus, new mexico, border crossing land port of entry? >> well, we hope it won't, because that would add, you know -- that would add a very bad outcome to an already unacceptable situation. we need to make sure the gsa, the 13,000, nearly 13,000 gsa

employees stay focused on their core mission and save taxpayers money. if they're diverted from that, we're only compounding the mi mistakes that were made at this conference. >> thank you. madame chair, i know you're a real watchdog over the treasury. i appreciate you holding this hearing and making sure that we don't see these kinds of wasteful expenditures of taxpayer money. >> thank you, senator, for joining us. i think we've had a good -- a very important hearing. you know, we're not looking for photo-opes of people taking the fifth. we're now trying to move forward and make sure this doesn't happen again. now, the inspector general, in answer to senator ludell's question said something alarming. he's uncovering more and more fraud. it seems like it's a never-ending thing. mr. tangherlini, you're sitting next to a man who is saying he is uncovering more and more fraud. i'm encouraging you to do far

more than even you thought you had to do, because you need to. because we are not going to change this. so i'm encouraging you here and supporting you in that effort. and as i think of ways, if i was in your seat -- again, i would communicate with every single employee. have you done any type of an e-mail or any type of a letter or any type of a little chat? you said you chatted. >> yes. >> have you made a statement that all gsa employees, from the top to the bottom can hear you talk about, a, how much you respect the work they do and, b, how we have zero tolerance for fraud in any way? >> we need to continue to do that. but on my first day, i sent a letter to all gsa employees. i followed it up later in the week with a joint letter with the inspector general. and i've also done a video for all general services employees. >> good.

>> we started the social media, the chatter conversations. there's going to be more of that. i like your idea of maybe using something like telepresents to get out to the regions. >> very important. >> and to talk to folks. >> you know what's going on right now around the water cooler. >> right. >> not a lot of work. and i think people have to know, we have a job to do. it is our job to prove to america that this agency is filled with patriotic, loyal americans who want to do the right thing. and that is critical. what is so outrageous about this is how these bad actors, very bad actors, perhaps criminal actors, you know, have sullied the reputation of so many people. it really is so disturbing. and they try to also sully the reputation of our president, these people in some of the things that they did.

so i think a reach-out here is critical. i also think -- you have 11 offices, is that right? 10 plus d.c., right? >> yes. >> so that's only -- so i would, if i were you, i would find 11 of the best people i could find. seriously. the top-notch people, whether they're in the agency -- and, you know, you have good people there. find these people. i would, at this point, send them out to each of these offices and i think they ought to be special oversight officers. they're to make sure people get back to work, do their job and before all these papers go off to the central place, which i think is important, that there's somebody there who can liaison with you.

so you don't have a situation where you've got the same people sending you the papers and you don't have that much confidence. i think that ought to be something that you consider. now, it may not be necessary to do it at every one of these offices, but i'll tell you right now, what i heard about from the one in my state, it ought to be done. >> i already, in region seven, eight, nine and ten, in the public buildings commission, we're sending out new acting public buildings commissioners. >> good. >> i also took way from here that we need to very quickly focus on the role of the regional administrator and the clear accountability that those folks need to show over those regions. >> and sending someone out there to oversee it, whether that is a six-month assignment plucked from the best of your best is up to you. when i hear the inspector general, who i admire so much, who had to take so much verbal abuse in the past and has stuck with it -- when i hear him say

he's looking, he's turning over rocks and every time he turns over a rock, something crawls out. that does not give me heart. i do not feel good. i'm so happy that you're both there, but i'm worried about what's to come. and i think, you know, you're there now. and you have nothing to do with it, but from this point forward, you do. so, don't underestimate this job that you have in terms of shaking this tree. and let these bad apples fall. and have your best people in these regions. we become washington central sometimes in federal government. we really do. and one of the things i learned being in my job for a long time, thanks to the good people of my state, is that in the beginning there was always tension between my regional offices at home and my main office. my main office thought they were the best, the best, the best. and everybody was doing things out there wasn't so important.

baloney. you know, the people on the ground are the ones who were meeting my constituents, the ones who were bringing the issues to me, the ones who were the face of my office. so we had a lot of heart-felt meetings and now we're a seamless team. but it takes a lot of time. but i think that these regions have gone wild. this region went wild on you. they went rogue. and it can't happen. and it's still -- there's ugly things that are going to come out. let's face it. because we know that mr. miller isn't going to stop until he knows everything single thing. so i have -- so, will you consider this idea of -- i'm not just talking about a person of public buildings or -- i'm talking about an overall good person, to get in there and say to the region, we need to change and this is how it has to be. this is what our leader in

washington said we're going to do. and we're going to do this for him. we're going to do this for the country. so, would you consider that type of approach? >> absolutely, senator. >> good. excellent. because i think it would really help. because the big word here is accountability and checks and balances. and you know the expression, it's a government indemnity they use used to say back in the founding days, we're a government of laws, not men. today we would say we're a government of laws, not people. but we are a government of laws and people. as the inspector general said, we have the laws on the books. we have the rules on the books and these people skirted them, disobeyed them and it will happen till the end of time. but we've got to get to the bottom of this. and i think it is going to take your most trusted -- people with the most integrity to get out to these areas and make them understand, they don't just do

anything that comes along. they have to carry out a very important mission and do it with the highest integrity. i have one more sort of sticky wicket, which is not a hard question for the inspector general at all. but has anyone, in any way ever tried to stop you from this investigation in the senate? >> no. >> or in the house? >> no. >> has anyone called you and said go easy on this? >> no. >> has anyone called you, mr. tangherlini, senator or house member, and said go easy on this? >> uh, no. >> well, i want that clear. because we've got a chairman over in the house, who is saying that one of the senators is trying to stop this investigation. and that's an outrage. so i'm going to read in our close what the inspector general said. there's a glimmer of good news. the oversight system worked. my office aggressively

investigated, audited, interv w interviewed and issued a report. no one stopped us from writing a report and making it public. and the whole ugly event is now laid bare for all to see. sunlight is said to be the best of disin fefectant. how true. so let it be clear, there is no senator or member of congress that is doing anything other than trying to get to the bottom of this. the two of you and, i have to say, miss britta, you're the good guys, the heroes in this. we should never forget that. we stand with you, and we will be with you every inch of the way. and don't let anyone stop you from doing the right thing here. because the days are over of these parties. they're over. the days of being unaccountable at gsa are over. and we've got to make sure they're over long after we're -- none of us is sitting in any

rooms. because that's what the carter administration thought. they put people to jail. there was fraud. they protected whistleblowers and we got back again and again and again. so let's make it, this time, set into place a system that is going to stop all these bad things that have happened and more. and i think you do it with the best people and you do it with the kind of an organization that builds in the checks and balances. so if you have a bad actor, that bad actor is found out. there's a layer of support. one of the things about the defense at the airports -- and we all get -- we're all critical and we don't think they work and sometimes they're abused and so on, is a layered system of defense. it's a layered system. you know, you buy the ticket. you're checked out. you go through, you're checked out. you go to the desk, you're checked out. your baggage is checked. everything is checked.

if you have multiple checks, then you're doing your best. does it mean it's perfect? does it mean it's foolproof? no. because we're humans. but i think you can do it. if ever i saw two people -- three, if i might add -- who have the integrity and who have the will, it's the three of you. and the others here, who i don't know, who i believe want to help you do it. so, let's show the world, let's show our taxpayers that we're going to fix this and although this is a horrible situation and we could see more parade of horribles, we're going to change it and we're going to make sure that we change it for good. thank you very much. we'll stay in touch. thank you. we stand adjourned. >> thank you. >> okay.

this was at least the third capital bill hearing examining mismangtd issues at. gsa. senator boxer has suggested her committee will conduct another some time this fall.

introducing 2013 budget at a senate budget committee. he said the proposal will accomplish $5.4 trillion in deficit ten years. he says the proposal blueprint for the future and way to move moerd. that hearing for you live here on c-span3 starting at 2:00 p.m. eastern. and tomorrow, defense secretary leon panetta and the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff general martin dempsey with kiv an update of syria. live here on c-span3 tomorrow again starting at 10:00 a.m. eastern. jury selection began this week in the retrial of former major league pitcher roger clemens charged by federal prosecutors with knowingly lying to congress in february 2008 on performance-enhancing drugs in baseball. >> let me read to you what his wife said in her affidavit.

i do depose and state in 1999 or 2000, andy told me he had had a conversation with roger clemens in which roger admitted to him using human growth hormones. mr. clemens, once again, i remind you, you're under oath. you have said your conversation with mr. pettit never happened. if was was true, why would lauren pettitte remind her of telling her about the conversation? >> i think he misremembers the conversation we had. andy and mine relationship was close enough to know, if i would have known he done hgh, which i now know, he was knowingly knowing that i had taken hgh we would have talked about the subject. he's have come to me to ask about the effects of it. >> watch his 2008 testimony online at the c-span video library. with over a quarter century of american politics and public affairs on your computer.

this weekend on book tv on c-span2, live coverage from the "los angeles times" coverage of books. starts saturday and sunday. saturday, 3:30 p.m. authors farrell, newton and reeves. and at 7:30, call in with your questions for steven ross, author of "hollywood left and right" how movie stars shaped american politics. sunday at 2:00, "the cause." and at 5:00, a panel on surveillance and secrets with lori andrews, annie jake son zen and michael schirmhershermer. it's online at booktv.org. global fiscal risks are declining but remain high according to the international monetary fund which released its fiscal monitor report yesterday.

many countries needed government support to get through the global recession causing their deficits to balloon. austerity measures adopted by some countries improved the outlook but imf cautions deficit reduction goals should not hamper growth. this is salve 45 minutes. this is about 45 minutes. >> good morning, everybody, and welcome to the press conference on the 2012 fiscal monitor of the april edition 2012 fiscal monitor. you have seen the monitor, which the embargo on the monitor has just been lifted. the press conference is led by head of the fiscal affairs department with two colleagues. carlo will offer opening remarks and then we open this press conference for your questions. i invite also all journalists watching this online to send questions through our press

center now. carlo? >> thank you very much, and thanks to all of you for being here. before -- saying before my colleagues and i answer your question, i would like to underscore a few messages from this issue of the physical fiscal monitor and i will cite particularly on the economy, because that's where the fiscal problems are most acute at the moment. i have some messages, key messages, on the fiscal monitor. the first one is that fiscal risks are declining but they are are still very high. with respect to six months ago there has been some reduction in risk. primarily because there has been some policy action. policy action has taken place, with progress being made particularly in europe in implementing a policy, fiscal adjustment. for example, in italy, but also

elsewhere. but the risks are very high. remain very high, as underscored by continued market volatility, and by the fact that the public debt is still on the rise. this is a chart with the public debt gdp ratio over the last 130 years. as you can see, we are now on average for the vast economies at the highest level that was reached only once close to, in the last 130 years at the time of the second world war. so the risks are still elevated in the vast economies, as the fiscal monitor underscores the outlook is better in emerging economies, but the emerging economies are still exposed to spillovers from advanced economies. secondly i wanted to underscore,

the adjustment, however, the fiscal adjustment, however, is taking place. it is critical that this fiscal adjustment takes place at the right speed. not to -- too little adjustment would raise concerns in terms of fiscal solvency. too much adjustment leads to insufficient demand for goods and services in the economy and both are bad for economy growth. what is needed is a steady but gradual adjustment. of course, unless you have, you are already subject to market pressures and you already have to borrow at high interest rate, in which case front loaded fiscal adjustment becomes very difficult to evolve. almost impossible. altogether we can say the fiscal adjustment on average is proceeding more or less at the pace that we regard as proper taking into account the need to

balance the different reefs the countries are facing. the country with space consider slowing down adjustment to reduce, downsize if they want to reduce downside risk to growth, but more or less we think the fiscal adjustment is probably a profit. let's look at some numbers. in 2011, this is the change in the stature balance country by country, and the adjustment w was -- the average adjustment in 2011 was about 1%. three quarter to 1% of gdp and more or less the same speed is taking place this three quarter, to percent of gdp, on average. the largest adjustments are, of courses are, for the countries subject to market pressures, but we see that those are also larger economies, like the united states and germany, which are not subject to market

pressure, are adjusting. more or less by the same amount. if we add the two, the two years together. so the adjustment is proceeding and will continue next year. this is the number you will find more specific numbers in the fiscal monitor. but there's still a long way to go. we have updated our calculation of the fiscal adjustment that would be needed to lower the public gdp ratio to below 60% by 2030. these are the revised numbers. so very large adjustments are needed, and this is what countries will be -- will have achieved in 2012 and 2013. so we see that for some countries, a lot of progress will already be made this year, and the next, but there are some

countries where a lot of progress will remain to be done in the following years. for the countries where a lot of, has already achieved, cha d achieving in 2013, it will still be challenging to maintain the level that is very high of several year, but there will be at least no need for major further -- other countries will have to continue the fiscal adjustment over time. what is needed is s discount, each country has a clear median term fiscal adjustment plan to resolve public debt. some like in japan still have to verify plans to reduce public debt over the immediate turn. it's important these plans are clarified soon. paradoxically in the absence of these