d. eisenhower voiced their opposition this week to the proposed design of a memorial honoring the president. they appeared before a congressional subcommittee hearing helped to consider the views of both supporters and opponents of the design created by architect frank gerry and his collaborator thee for artist wilson. this hearing is 90 minutes. >> we know the vietnam war was a very controversial, very divisive conflict, occurring at a time where there were many difficulties in the united states on the home front. and we also know that, unfortunately, many vietnam veterans were not welcomed home the way that our society has welcomed home returning veterans from previous wars in the 20th century and as we see now in the 21st century. regardless of all of that, regardless of the controversy, and regardless of the individuals' view of the war, and the views of the war differ widely depending on the individual and their

perspective, but one theme that is constant among our service personnel is their pride in the service to country. >> 40 years after the first full-scale engagement between u.s. troops and the people's army of vietnam, the vietnam archive at texas tech university in lubbock interviewed veterans from the battle ofs ia drang valley. it was after these battles, waged in november 1965 that north vietnamese forces began engaging in guerrilla warfare. the americans, outnumbered by the north vietnamese army prevailed, but at a heavy cost. enrique pujals was a second lieutenant and a platoon leader with the 2nd battalion, 7th cavalry in the fall of 1965. his platoon got into the fight at landing zone x-ray where his men were first hit with friendly fire. up next, excerpts from his oral history interview. immediately following this 30-minute program we'll hear from tracy black enders, the daughter of a newspaper reporter who was embedded with the 7th cavalry. now, enrique pujals.

>> i was platoon leader just about two, maybe three days at the most before we set out on operation. we set out on that operation on or about the 8th or the 9th of november. my company. >> okay. and in your operation between somewhere between the 8th and the 14th, did you guys make enemy contact? >> not us. >> not your unit? >> no. >> so then you come back, so on the 14th, you are still out in the boonies, conducting operations, and -- in the is it the general vicinity of x-ray? i'm trying to think of where -- >> i don't know exactly where we were. we were in the general vicinity, that's what i knew. we had our own maps. we had a map, i had a map, and i don't have -- i don't remember very well, but we just going up there, just -- just actually

we're just going fast, because i was the first, though, the point platoon. and part of me wasn't fast enough, because i was doing what i'd learned from the book, and what i learned on the youtube program, we're about to contact with the enemy, so we're out searching. we have to go not too fast, look, really look for them. be careful for an ambush. i had out flank of people, rear security. i had the whole works in my platoon up front. i had a pacer. i double-checked the pace. i was the one, i had another man who was a steerer man and i also double checked with my compass. but they claim i was too slow, and we were drifting slightly to the left. so when we stopped, on the first day, when we stopped for the first break, for one of the breaks, the last break, in the afternoon was about 4:30, when we stopped the company commander said, we're going to stay there

the night, and i was out on the rear. so i put back in the rear and the rear next day, he was like a race, grab echelon as we call it, we're going up, fast, i have to pull in my flank. i didn't want to lose anybody. i don't know where the hell we were going, because we didn't know where the enemy was. it -- i mean if we knew where the enemy was, and we were getting flanked again as fast as possible i have no problem, you know. but if we were looking for the enemy, he could just as easily be ready to ambush us at any point there. >> sure. >> because nobody was looking out at the pace they were having. >> so, around the 14th, you hear what's going on at x-ray but only through rtos who have been monitoring the radios? >> as i remember, it was on the 15th, central information didn't get, at least in m.i.a. platoon,

didn't get my company that i knew of, on the 15th all of a sudden we were told to halt, and to move -- they had some battle, somewhere, about 3, 3 1/2 inches, and to clear it to make a landing zone to be picked up. where we were going they didn't tell us. the rtos, this information i had i got from the company commander and that's when the information started to dribbling in. the first battalion, and deep one they had been fighting since yesterday. lots of casualties. we're going to go reinforce them. but actually what we did, we cleared it, sometimes what they did, the first chinook came in, two chinooks came in, and it just grabbed, without any organization, just grabbed people, throw them out there and throw them back. you know, facing forward, facing

toward, spread eagle like that, and they came in here, all the way down, two or three lines, we covered and filled in the chinook and took us off. >> how many people did you put on that chinook? >> i think you put at least 30, at least. but i think -- i think it was 40 you could put in a chinook but i don't remember right now it's so long ago. we filled up completely, and we got to the tea plantation, and they had an x-ray bullet and our first mission after we got there, set up security with whatever people was there on that shift. some of them were in my platoon. some of them from other platoons. then we got our lawyers, we're going to stay there, set up security for the night, because they had attacked that same place the night before. we were not going to gofor t sa night before. we were not going to go reinforce the othsecurity for t they had attacked that same place the night before. we were not going to go reinforce the other and the next

morning that's when they told us come over and pick up the order and that's when the rumor was, and the rtos started coming, that's where we're going, the information is. we're going to go reinforce the first battalion. this came on the next day. >> and so now we're like -- >> 16th. >> the 15th and now the 16th? >> yeah. and we were going to go at dawn, they were going to pick us up, first daylight. but, they kept postponing it, postponing it, and finally the information kept trickling down, says through e.m. himself, nothing from channels, through back channels, got -- there was heavy firefight going on in the early morning. and that's why we were being postponed. all of a sudden, i don't remember what time it was right now, but it was fairly early into the morning, they said, all right, saddle up, we're going. they picked us up, we went to the helicopters, and we went to -- we landed away from, i think it must have been where they cleared the explosives.

must have been, because we -- they dropped us off there and we walked in. and as we were walking in to x-ray, we were zapped by two helicopters. two of our gunships. we were attacked by two of our gunships. >> of our own? >> two of our own. and two men from the first platoon got wounded. and when they did, they called the first platoon, they kill the wounded, set up the perimeter around it, and the second platoon, us, we moved in. and when we moved in to x-ray, it was quiet. there was an air strike going on. all of a sudden, a firefight broke out, lasted about very few minutes, but, most of the fire was hours going out. >> so the attack that happened by our own helicopters, our own gunships, what's your -- what do you think was going on there, they thought -- they obviously thought you were -- >> they thought we were coming in from the rear. because we came in from the

rear. then when we came out, we were flanking. we were right on the -- on the left flank. >> did the attack by the gunships -- were you able to call it off? or did it gist stop. >> it was called off apparently, because the people who were getting hit were the first platoon. and they made several passes at us. several passes. >> the reason i'm asking that is that i've -- i've talked to, over the last couple of days, i've talked to several helicopter pilots, and one of the questions that i have, i know that later in the war, tactical support of -- by helicopters, with cobra gunships, became very ordinary. that's what -- that's how you got tactical air support when you were on the ground. but you didn't have it then. >> no. we had the hughies. >> that's what i'm wondering, no one called that in? >> no, no, no. >> they must have seen something. >> it must have been an air strike going on, because they

must have been circling around waiting for the f-100s the ones doing the air strike from the air force. they fly very slow, firing the galley guns, and dropping bombs. >> but you're sure that it was helicopter fire rather than the a-1 -- >> the thing is, the weird thing was, and this is one of the things why they say it was so confusing and disconcerting the attack by the helicopter, because when they cut away, they go like this, the whoop whoop whoop sounded like a machine gun. so i -- every time they made a pass, it sounded like they were strafing us, but they probably made just one or two shooting passes at us. they made several passes and these passes when they cut away, they sounded like a machine gun, whoop whoop whoop whoop, and then, that's why i was looking around, finally, i saw the helicopter. somebody said, it's a helicopter that's shooting at us. you know, we deploy to both sides of the trail that we were

marching in because we thought maybe it was enemy coming in. but actually, it is a helicopter. i was looking up, finally saw one of them coming on. >> and you said we had a couple of guys wounded? >> two guys wounded in the platoon. >> okay. so, so you're out there working your way toward x-ray, and this is the third day of x-ray, so then what happens? tell me. continue with that day for me. >> well, we moved in. there was this cameraman, he was dressed in fat eegs, he turned out to be the two cameraman, two-man team from the army signal corps, we were filming us. he was filming us, filming my platoon and he started filming me for the close-up and i was getting up close and up of a sudden that's when the firefight broke out. he broke out like this this way, he nearly smashed me in the face with the camera.

started running. he ran over a couple of boxes, c-rations, ammunition, threw himself, and landed on one knee and started panning. and then after a few more minutes, fire died out. and we just kept on going. because, i saw, i heard all the fire, most of it was going from our side, which was over a few meters over to our left. so it's going out there this isn't going to hurt us and just kept on going. it did. it finally ended. we got to a place over there, and company come out, told us where we're going to go, and this is your platoon. my platoon area took over where one of the platoons where half a company, captain tony nadal's company had been inside the dry creek bed and partly outside. so i had two squads inside, two squads one of them partly inside the dry creek bed.

the other completely inside. and the third squad, which was only about five men, on the outside. that's how we broke up. >> his company was decimated. i mean, they were down to, i think 43 wounded, so 43 killed or wounded, so he was about less than 50% of what he started with, which was already about 60% of toe? >> yeah, we were worried -- we were about 55%, 60% t.o.e. my platoon had 55 men, and myself when we left. i had to leave two at the tea plantation. with fever of unknown origin, which usually turn out to be malaria. and when i went to check on them they told me my friend, mortar man, had been wounded on the 14th. and there was this, and i hope this, sir, maybe somebody would find him, there was this -- he

was from puerto rico, and i'd never been able to find out, i forgot his name, they gave him two different names. first something santiago, and i couldn't find any santiago doctors. the other name they gave me was ortiz suarez. those were the two last names, ortiz suarez umberto and never been able to find anybody with those names either. and nobody knows about him. i tried asking him. the only -- the first battalion was an italian descent, i forget his name right now. he had he had been there. from before the battle. but he -- this captain from puerto rico was aboard the ship. that's where i met him. >> oh. >> by my name pujals. there's several pujals families in ponce where he lived.

he saw my name and came over and said are you from puerto rico? and then we started chatting around. >> so you're there, reinforcing the alpha company of the first to the seventh? >> well we started to reinforce them, but the battle was practically over. and what we ended up doing was replacing them. the order was changed. you would take over the position instead of just augmenting them. >> they evacuated. >> and i met up. and his friend, i forget his last name. i forget his last name, lamont, james lamont, i met up with him, talk to him, he told me to pick up. several people who got killed because they ran out of ammunition. >> yeah. >> so he told me pick up as much ammo, forget about food, forget about water.

ammunition. can you get those from the dead. but ammunition you need. >> you're absolutely -- >> that's what i did. >> so then take me through the next couple days. you stayed at x-ray? >> we stayed at x-ray over the night, nothing happened. there's some firing and some of the men hugh mckinney, he was one of my fire team leaders, he claimed that he fired at some snipers, he knocked out one. and there's some other, i forget who he was from another platoon who claim he shot with an m-39 and wiped out a sniper in a tree. but as far as i remember, there was nothing. >> mm-hmm. >> just some firing, check the line. >> yeah. >> and that was it. >> you stayed -- >> -- >> and you stayed there for how many more days? >> oh, that's all the night. and then the next morning, on the 17th, we were supposed to move out as soon as possible because the b-52s were going to blast the place. and that was postponed. postponed until we finally left. we left i forget what time.

but it was fairly well into the morning also. >> they extrated you by chopper? >> oh, no. we walked out. >> mm-hmm. >> not to aed you by chopper? >> oh, no. we walked out. >> mm-hmm. >> not to a shoraed you by chop? >> oh, no. we walked out. >> mm-hmm. >> not to a shoced you by chopp? >> oh, no. we walked out. >> mm-hmm. >> not to a shoted you by chopper? >> oh, no. we walked out. >> mm-hmm. >> not to a short space of when we came in. this was a long walk. we were to go to an l.c., but before we got there, there were -- we were going to split. we were marching out with companies from two battalions. from the first to the fifth, and the second to the fifth, and the order i had received from captain fessmyer, he passed away a few years ago, the order was we were marching out, and our company was going to be the rear most company in the battalion, and i was going to be their rear most platoon. nobody behind me. we were not going to have any artillery after we split out. second to the fifth, one of the

battalions, they would move out to columbus and we would keep on going to another l.c. i don't remember if we had the name given at the time. it turn out to be albany. albany. but at the time i don't remember that they gave it a name. >> mm-hmm. >> they had different letters for some of them. and i don't remember which one. but i remember distinctly, l.c. albany, i only learned that later as far as i'm concerned. from that point on we would have no artillery support. and i was scared for that. we need some artillery. >> sure. >> because i had several, at least two other books by bernard, and one of the things that they had in the french land was to take the artillery with them. halt, clear the artillery and move. >> -- out of a very small place. >> yeah. >> so, so you're on the march to this place, that we know now would turn out to be --

>> and we turn out to be albany. but we weren't told what was going to happen after. some people say some of us have claim in the book that we were going to be extracted. but, from what i remember, what they initially ordered was be prepared to continue the march. so, we might have been extracted, we were going to maybe be extracted. maybe to continue the operation. maybe to continue the march. >> but it wasn't -- it wasn't -- you were going somewhere, you were not on an operation to engage the enemy, because you had -- >> right. >> -- a whole lot of administrative types that were -- that you were escorting. correct? >> right, right. >> and -- value -- >> and as far as the attitude was the battle was over. that was the attitude. it was not exactly said. the attitude was the battle was over, we beat the heck out of them the other battalion did and we're just moving out, because i try to get information of why we

weren't being extracted, and all we got was -- all i got was some of the people that the helicopters were down for maintenance because they had used them so much during the three days of battle. and well that was it, we're going out. there's no battle. there's no search. larry gwynn remembers it differently. he wrote while he was in college, and he said that we were going out to be extracted, and continuing the operation, search for the enemy, and they were moving in a tactical formation platoons, echelon right i think it was. we were just moving a column. and we were moving as fast as possible -- >> was he a arguing -- >> first lieutenant larry gwen, officer of the company. >> -- of the company -- okay. and so tell me what happens when

you -- when the firing starts? what is your platoon's position? >> when we halted, and at the time, just before that, one of my men told me that we had people behind us. i was worried. i said, oh, because i was supposed to be the rearmost. it turned out to be a couple company 1st through the 5th. it was alpha company, captain george forest's company, and so it's no problem there. that was -- that got me wondering, if i'm supposed to be the last guy here, how come we got more people behind. then we stopped for the rto, the information i got was that the conference for all company commanders has been called. company commanders are going forward. we're halted. they found two enemy soldiers, they captured two enemy allegedly deserters who say that

there's more deserters around but there's a lot more who didn't want to desert waiting for us some place and they were eager to kill americans, and that basically said about the enemy, oh, they were snipers, also, in the trees. and after awhile, the shooting started. started, you know, like you start like a rifle range, you know. they go -- and not everybody starts at the same time. you starting here pow here, pow, pow, pow and it starts going. this is lasting quite a bit longer. trying to get information what's going on. why, you know, so i say to my men, my squad leaders, get the men deployed, be prepared for something here. and after awhile of this going on my rto calls me, c.o. wants you. on the phone, i ask him what's going on, he said, forget it.

get your men in line, and maneuver right, the classic anti-ambush. a reaction, so that's what i did. i had done that three or four times. so i try to get my men on line. ationing arm and hand signals like this, get on line. no one knew what the hell was going on. moving forward. and i turn around, everybody's up there scratching themselves what's going? what? what? what? get on line. get on line. everybody get on line and i'm moving up there to get them on line. the rto says, c.o. wants you. he says halt your platoon where they are. prepare to leave. and that's it. that's it. he didn't say prepare to defend, defensive position, nothing. halt your platoon where you are. that's it. stop the maneuver. so, i try to get my men in a dedefensive position and the fighting just kept on going. way up front. then some of my men started firing at the trees. so i said stop firing.

because our fire is going to get over there. and some rounds started coming over this way. and i try to get a hold of the company command to tell them they're shooting at us. i couldn't get any -- couldn't get anybody on the horn. then i try to get my squad lieders on the prc-6s, they didn't work. so i said maybe it's off. so i turn it off. turn it on. turn it off. no word. so i said, get somebody. turn the radios on. a couple of minutes, regulars on, couldn't work anything. no information. i could see no information, i could give no information to my men, either to my squad leaders. so i told them not to shoot unless you have a real target. one of my machine gunners name was sarah. he picked up, firing from the hip like john wayne, spraying

the trees. i said don't, don't shoot that. don't shoot anything. he said no just spraying them to make sure there's nobody out there. i said don't unless you see suspicious movement, then because they're in the line of fire, the other guys up there. >> are you concerned -- are you concerned at -- at this point you're not concerned about conserving ammo or anything? >> no. >> you're just concerned about not hitting somebody. >> correct. >> because you don't know where everybody is. >> correct. because the firefighters over that way and it's fine this way and also all over the place so anyone didn't know exactly where they were, they could have been spread out at the perimeter. you fire over here, you probably hit some of our men. i was concerned about hitting our people. because we were getting -- we were also getting bullates from there. but it was sporadic. okay, and then i call for my first squad leader. i think he was a puerto rican

sergeant, because i had a puerto rican sergeant in e-6, don't remember what his name was. he was from puerto rico i think his name might have been cese in the least from charlie company. he was e-6. the only one i don't remember who it was. he might have been one. so i called him up, and i told him, you're in charge. i'm going to go and find lieutenant janette the mortar platoon leader and coordinate something with him. because i couldn't get anything. push come to shove, any enemy really showed up and started firefight. he had orders. he had some rounds we could get him directly instead of going on the phone and wasting all that time. so i went out looking for him. and his platoon, his people, were all sitting down, smoking, scratching, lying down. some taking a nap. and i asked him where's lieutenant janase? oh, he's over there. i go off over there.

that's when i got hit. first in my left leg then on my right leg. that's when i was wounded. right between the two platoons. >> it was an ak or was it m-16? >> i don't know. one of them i thought it was an m-16 because this one came from behind. >> from behind and low. >> but the round didn't stay in your leg. >> no, no, went right through. >> they went right through. >> well, i got -- because that was the second round. a second round while i was lying down it came up somewhere just went in here i saw the leg go up. and that was broken in a whole bunch of many pieces in there and they're still going around there but it's all broken up and there's another one down here. lodged itself in my ankle there. that also came in. >> so you don't -- your assumption -- >> it was -- >> it was ak-47. >> this one had to come from -- at least came from the direction over there this one. but this one came from behind and below. so i wasn't sure. i hesitated to call the medic

because i didn't want him killed or wounded. because, you know, i try to play john wayne all that. i finally called him up. he came over. and my medic and i told him, don't use so many bandages. because he was putting bandages all over the place. i was the first casualty in the platoon. >> you were the first casualty? >> in the platoon. >> but you knew -- you thought maybe there would be some more -- >> shoot -- >> yeah -- >> -- then they pulled me out of the line of fire. took my back pack off and left my pack back, i had the water, and about 15 to 18 rounds of ammunition i had there. and i told him to strap my m-16, you know, like use for as a splint but it didn't work. this thing was very high. >> yeah. >> and it was loose all over the place. but they pulled me back out of the line of fire, and it did to me, there was this little depression there my butt fell in and so i was comfortable there.

>> did you take any drugs, morphine or -- >> i told him not to give me any morphine but he did. because i was a classic perfect example for morphine shot. no head wounds. not for open wounds, and so i had an extremity wound, so just -- >> yeah and that -- and you went to sleep? >> no. i did not wanted to because i wanted to stay awake. >> sure. >> because i figured, you know, if i fall asleep, they're going around shooting they'll probably get me. so i fought the sleep completely. i fought it. >> 40 years after the first full-scale engagement between u.s. troops and the people's army of vietnam, the vietnam archive at texas tech university in lubbock interviewed veterans from the battles of the ia drang valley, it was after these battles waged in november 1965 that north vietnamese forces began engaging in guerrilla warfare. the americans, outnumbered by the north vietnamese army, prevailed, but it was a heavy st