>> what do you think of that characterization? >> well wrr, except for doing i himself, you know, having gone through the watergate ordeal in the white house to me it was something that he was trapped in not something that he had created but something he was trapped in and he was trying to find ways without knowing what it was all about. he was stumble around in the dark, too, we all, were, trying to figure it out. and trying to salvage from this thing that was trying to take it down. and i still -- i think there's still a lot of -- that we don't know about the origins of watergate. and there were other players in there, too. and it's a -- but he's always wanted to be of use and to be a part of the making of history. and so this did turn out i think to be a step in that direction.

>> let me ask you a blunt question. a lot of your colleagues went to jail. >> yeah, uh-huh, uh-huh, they did. >> haldeman, ehrlichman, chapin, you can go down the list, colson, why didn't you get caught up in that? >> i just didn't do anything that they would jail me for. i was not -- i was not on the operational side. and i think they were ones that just simply got trapped in it. and the whole thing of why watergate to me is still a mystery. and it remained a mystery even, you know, on the tenth anniversary of the watergate break-in, june 17th, 1982, i was then doing the report of a presidential commission, national commission, and our offices were in the watergate building in the same suite of offices that the dnc had had and on the tenth anniversary it was a sunday. the -- what happened larry o'brien's office, the dnc chairman, was a big corner office with big windows overlooking the potomac window.

where they had broken in and supposedly put the bug on the wrong phone, ha ha, was spencer oliver. he had the diagonally opposite overlooking the highway and there was no way you could possibly mistake one for the other. howard hunt also had a special hatred for spencer oliver. and all the targets they picked were of more interest to the cia than they were to us. and hunt and liddy were both cia people. and all during their operations, direct report to the head of the cia. now, what to make of that, i do not know, but this is something that was not publicized very much at the time. to put it mildly. >> what did it feel like for you to be the chief speechwriter all throughout the presidency, to be in the middle of this but not to be in the middle of watergate? >> i was glad not to be.

i was not involved in that sort of stuff. none of the speech writers were. we were not operational and it was operational people that got caught up in it and unfairly for them. they were in damage control mode is what it was once it happened and trying to figure out how to get out of it and how to salvage the presidency and us, all of us, the stakes for the nation and the world were far greater in completing what he was trying to do in transforming the world and setting what we call a structure of peace for everybody in place than finding out what happened in one burglary. and so i think some people took chances they shouldn't have and did things to try to cover it up and so forth. so, i really felt sorry for all of them. they were good people. >> did you ever discuss it with him in years after presidency when you were traveling around with him? >> not really. because i'd fought the watergate battle all the way through.

we may have talked abo don't remember. watergate was not something we talked about in the later years. it wasn't just traveling around, it was also out at san clemente, too, and one aspect of that to give you a little better flavor of it. they had for many, many years had a couple who were practically part of the family, minola and felix sanchez. while we were out there, they decided final i had ly decided back to spain. they hired a six day a week housekeeper but she was off on wednesdays. and she would leave stuff in the refrigerator for him and his wife, pat. but we got in the habit of off on wednesday, i would go down, i would always cook for myself, and i would go down and i would cook dinner for us and david and julie lived a few miles up the -- david and julie eisenhower a few miles up the coast. they'd come down, and if they had guests, they'd be there and

maybe one or two of our staff, andoid cook dinner and we would have dinner around the dining room table. and when they were finally moving back east, their house was all packed up. it took a long time to pack everything up and then it was going to take seven days for the movers to move east. they bought a townhouse here in new york. and that afternoon, after they finished the packing, he called me at my apartment, and invited himself and his wife down to my place for dinner. so, i ended up the three of us ended up having dinner together, cooked by me in my apartment, on their last california day. >> but you never really talked about watergate? >> not really, no. it wasn't -- it was not something he particularly wanted to revisit and i didn't feel any need to. >> you know, when you watch the movie, there's a scene, the farewell scene, when he waves good-bye from the helicopter. >> uh-huh. >> and the farewell speech. >> yeah. >> in the east room. the nixon library cooperated in the making of this movie by

letting him do the marine one, you know, also in the east room. are you surprised that they cooperated with the movie, and is that kind of an endorsement? >> i don't think it's an endorsement. if the movie is going to be made, i think you want to try to -- just offering technical help really. and incidentally on that -- on that -- i did not -- i knew he was going to say farewell to the staff. i did not know the television cameras would be there. i was surprised when i got to the east room and i was ushered to my seat in the front row to find that they were there and i don't think he had slept at all the night before when he gave that emotional farewell to staff and then as we gathered on the south balcony to wave good-bye the woman standing next to me had tears streaming down her face as she waved good-bye, it was barbara bush. >> and she was there for what reason? >> because her -- because george sr. was part of our administration, uh-huh. >> one more from frank langella.

>> now, he was told that this interview with david frost would be, like, a big [ inaudible ] was he taken off guard by david frost? >> no. i don't -- i watched these interviews very carefully. and i don't think david ever really got the best of him in 99% of it and even in the end when he did say what he said, i don't really believe it was a shock surprise. it's wonderful theater and it's wonderful -- it's a wonderfully theatrical moment, but nixon wasn't a man you could get off guard pretty ease i had at all. he was a really good lawyer and he knew what he was doing and he'd been at this for years and years and years. but david did with jim reston come up with a piece of information that had never been publicly expressed before and that was the catalyst that caused nixon to say, okay, i did

something that i regret and i'm -- and i let down the country, i'm sorry for it, it's what they needed. it's only about 40 seconds worth of material, but it's what made those interviews so famous, that 40 seconds. >> is that your recollection? >> which part of it? >> the fact that he admitted that he'd done something wrong and he regretted it? >> no, that was part of the -- that was part of the interview, but i don't think it was that dramatic a part. my -- watching the movie, my sense was that it was over -- they did rather overly draw ma tiz that part of it. >> what do you think -- at one point you worked for william paley who started cbs and ran it, and before i ask you, what did you do for him? >> he was -- he recruited me when he was about to step down i think at the age of 81, having founded cbs in 1928.

he was finally about to step down as chairman and he was trying to figure out what to do for the rest of his life. he hired me just as sort of without a portfolio particularly to join his staff, his personal staff, not the cbs staff. he had a corner on the 34th floor of the cbs building in new york that he rented from cbs for his private staff. that's where i was. part of it was i would be available to help him with any speeches or any writing he did and so forth and sort of as a general aide and backstop. but his mind was not what it had been. and he really had hoped, i think, to do -- he had had one book that came out under his name, a ghost written book, he didn't like it that much. he wanted to do another. i kept finding excuses for him not to do it. because his mind wasn't up to it. it clearly wasn't. his memory wasn't. and i continued. i stayed there for a couple years and then i was recruited to -- i was getting restless.

there really wasn't enough to do, i was getting bored. and i was offered the presidency of the economic club of new york, and so i left and i joined that. but i continued on retainer for bill up until his death, just doing those odds and ends and helping with any little writing and that sort of stuff. >> let me just also ask you about the economic club. you spent a lot of time there. 19 years. >> 19 years. >> the what did you do there? >> i was president of it. first of all it confuses people that either it's a club of economists or it's a club about the economy. it's a club of senior business membership which has no agenda whatsoever of its own. we ran it with two people including me. the chairmanship was rotated. it was one of the corporate ceos was on the board and be named chairman for a two-year term. and the only thing we did was put on large functions for members and their invited guests. speaking functions. very disciplined speaking

functions. on matters of interest to the business audience. with top-drawer speakers from around the nation and around the world. usually with about 500 to 1,000 guests, which would be open for television coverage and so forth. and a lot of companies used it for business entertaining and so forth. prestige invitation to get. but it also allowed -- didn't take full time for me even though it was a full-time base so i did other things too including outside speech writing. i wrote a syndicated column for four years and so on and stuff like that, but it was a full-time -- it was a base and i finally turned that over. >> you spoke about mr. paley not having great memory and all that near the end. you knew richard nixon when he died -- >> he was still sharp. >> he was, what, 81? >> 81 when he died. he died very suddenly. a massive stroke while waiting for dinner. his wife had died the year before.

he took that very hard. and he had just that day gotten the galleys what turned out to be his last book. he was sitting on the deck of his house waiting for dinner and he suddenly conked out with a stroke one evening. by we'd his daughters and sons in law were on the phone with me talking about funeral arrangements and he died on friday. >> did you ever talk to him about the way he wanted to die? >> no, no, no, no, no, i don't think he planned this. >> was whether or not he wanted certain things said at his funeral? >> no, not so far as i know. >> when was the last time you were together and when was the last time you wrote a speech for him? >> i don't recall. i don't recall, as a matter of fact. >> so, in the years after watergate -- >> and actually, i was not writing speeches. i was helping him with books is what it was, books, helping him with his books and the op-eds. i helped him with the op-eds, too, he did a lot of op-eds for "the new york times." >> i wanted to ask you before, i wanted to get the bill paley in

there, what are we better off as a country and will this movie have a bigger impact than history itself? is it good for bad for richard nixon? >> i don't know. i don't know how it will be done later on. i think in the long run, whether this will have some impact? i don't know. it will have some. the impact will depend on who it is having an impact on. some people will jump on it because they love that frost actually got him. others will find him an interesting character. i think he was more interesting in person than he shows up on that. he was a fascinating guy with a phenomenal mind. a mind that was always working and always strategizing and always thinking. and he was a good friend. very thoughtful. on a personal level. and, yeah, you don't meet a lot of them like that anymore. but i think in history, i've often said and i really believe it, i still do, over the years that i think eventually he will be regarded as one of our

better, maybe one of our best presidents, but not until the evaluations nor longer being made by those who are invested in the devil theory of richard nixon. >> we have one clip of actually david frost and richard nixon and i want to run that so you can compare that with mr. langella and others. >> what did haldeman tell you during the 18 1/2-minute gap? >> haldeman's notes are the only recollection i have of what he told me. haldeman was a very good note taker because, of course, we've had other opportunities to look at his notes, and he was very -- he was making the notes for my presidential file. the notes indicated -- >> the offensive. >> of course. well, you've asked me what it was. my recollection was that the notes show check the eob to see whether or not it's bugged. obviously i was concerned about

whether or not the other side was bugging us. >> do you have any idea what was in that 18 1/2-minute gap? >> i don't know that any of us do. and rosemary woods, she was a close friend of mine and she always maintained to me as she did to everyone else, it really puzzled her. >> you did the briefing with the group and you have a picture behind you, how did you all divide up that work when you prepared him for these interviews? >> my recollection is we did it by topic. i forget now exactly what it was. and because i think my recollecti recollection, yeah. the four shows but we did 29 hours of taping over -- >> how many different days, do you remember? >> how many different days, i don't recall. but it was about 10 or 15 miles north of san clemente. he had rented a house up there for it, frost did, and that's where we did them. so we would have topic areas to

focus on each time and how we divided up, i really don't recall for sure. >> did you debrief after these interviews were over? >> not in any formal way, no, no. i'm sure we talked about it. but i don't recall any formal. >> there's a scene at the end where he is supposedly drunk on the telephone talking to frost. did that happen? >> i'm quite certain it did not. quite certain. >> why are you certain? >> partly it just didn't -- it was not at all like him. it was totally, totally out of character. and i never saw him drunk either in the 27 years that i knew him. and i knew him pretty well. >> did he drink? >> yeah, modestly, but not heavily. wine with dinner and occasional scotch and that sort of thing. but never heavily, no. >> and why do you think -- did you ever ask anybody why in this movie they wanted to portray him as drunk on the phone late at night right before the last interview?

>> i didn't talk with the executives of the movie, no. >> let me switch to inauguration speeches because you did two of them. >> yeah, uh-huh. >> what do you remember of that experience both times? >> well, the first was a very heady thing just to be working with the president on an inaugural address. it's one of the supreme sacraments of the democratic system. but, again, both of them -- in both cases it was -- as it was with anything, not for him but with him as we would go back and forth and working it out until we had it the way he wanted, the way he wanted it to be. and i remember on the first one, we went on and on and we were going to go down on sunday for his inauguration on monday. we worked until midnight at his transition office in the pierre hotel here in new york and we finally had what we thought was just the way he wanted it. and then he got out a bottle of

heineken which he had in the refrigerator there and we shared that to celebrate, and rose woods and i walked him around the corner to his home and i dashed home and sort of trying to get myself packed and ready and so forth and get a little sleep. the next morning i was going to meet him in the central park and get on the helicopter to get on the plane to go down to d.c. with him. he called me late in the morning and he just had another thought for the opening, so about three or four phone calls back and forth we fixed that up and it was done. but it was a kind of heady thing to do and then i joined him on the helicopter and on the plane and went down. and then it was -- because it is such a -- such a ceremonial moment. and an impressive one really. it was a very moving thing to do. and i was just delighted to have been a part of it. >> several days ago john fedreau who is the 27-year-old speechwriter for barack obama's inaugural, huge front page piece, a picture of him in

starbucks writing on a computer and all that, would you have ever been that way back in the days being that public? >> no way. >> why not? >> i was working for him, not for the public. it was not about me. it was about him. i did it at my desk in new york in my apartment in lincoln towers. and when i worked with him in his transition office in the pierre hotel, but it was just between him and me and that was it. >> how many drafts did you have? >> i don't remember how many. it was not a lot of drafts, drafts and re-drafting. but, you know, he would -- again, it was -- it was an important one for him and anything like this he would use it as a way of working out ideas and so forth. and he would be developing as he went and i'd be developing as he went. until we just had what he wanted and had the right tone. i think it was very good. >> according to this article in "the washington post" barack obama's asked for a 15- to 20-minute speech. i've read both of your speeches that richard nixon gave and

they're about three -- each of them are about three pages, single spaced. was there a time limit that you put on yourself in this? >> i don't think a specific time limit. he was very conscious of time. i don't think we had anything timing to the minute or anything like that. but and, again, you didn't have a -- didn't have a stopwatch on the -- on the capitol steps. but he didn't -- he understood that speeches when they got too long got too -- >> how would you write an inaugural speech different from other speeches you would give and the pacing and all of that? >> because he gave a -- you know, in preparation for it, he read all the past inaugurals himself, trying to get ideas for himself. and he kept feeding ideas to us on the writing side and so forth and we settled that i would be the one doing it with him. but all this whole process over a period of a couple of months fit into what we finally did. >> the word i think that i saw

the most hin both speeches was the word peace. was that for a reason? >> well, it was always -- it was his nature. don't forget that he's a quaker, who grew up in a quaker family and a quaker community and went to a quaker college. and he came in as a wartime president. he inherited what i've often described as the second most disastrous decade in american history, second only to the 1860s and the nearest thing to a civil war since then. and we had when we came in there were half a million troops still in vietnam, deaths 300 a week, and he came in hoping to reshape the relationships among the great powers, you could really have a lasting peace. this is really what he was after. this was his number one goal. and so it was not a trivial thing for him, it was really central to why -- what he wanted to do with his presidency. >> abroad, the shift from old

policies to new has not been a retreat from our responsibilities but a better way to peace. and at home, the shift from old policies to new will not be a retreat from our responsibilities but a better way to progress. abroad and at home, the key to those new responsibilities lies in the macings and the divisions of responsibility. we have lived too long with the consequences of attempting to gather all power and responsibility in washington. abroad and at home the time has come to turn away from the condescending policies of paternalism, of washington knows best. >> this is over 30 years ago. do you think anything's changed? >> well, i think the need is still there, but this was --

this was really central to what he was trying to do, and he was trying to do it against long odds, among others because he was the first president in 120 years to take offices with both houses of congress controlled by the opposition and they remained in opposition control throughout which made it tough on get things done, but, again, it was precisely that reversal of the flow of power that was at the core of what he was trying to do, power and responsibility, and he also understood that the best way to make people to act responsible is give them responsibility. and so he was trying to make it no longer america dictating to the world or anything like that, but getting the rest of the world or those powers you could get to do it to take more responsibility themselves for the future of mankind. and here to get power back to the states and localities so that they would make more decisions for themselves and do it better. >> on the eve of the president obama's inaugural address and a

country that's in a far different shape today than it was then, here's what you said back then. richard nixon said. government must learn to take less from people so that people can do more for themselves. let us remember that america was built not by government but by people, not by welfare but by work, not by shirking responsibility but by seeking responsibility. in our own lives let us -- let each of us ask not just what will government do for me, but what can i do for myself. and i wonder, that comes pretty chose to what john kennedy said. >> it might be. i'd have to look back at his. but this was certainly central to what richard nixon was trying to do, uh-huh. >> what's the hardest thing about writing an inaugural speech? >> i don't know. i guess probably just feeling the weight of history on it. and you want to be much more careful about, be sure it's right, right in tone, right in substance, right for the

occasion and also what you want to do, you want to lift the public up, you really do. and try to get your administration off to as good a start as you can and also give you a little leverage with the congress. >> just a minute or so left. we're sitting in your apartment in the middle of new york city. you were born in this town? >> i was born in brooklyn, grew up in a small town on long island, small village, where i went to public high school and i graduated in a class of 12 students. >> why did you stay in new york all your life? >> well, i -- after yale and the navy, i came to new york for my first job. i've always been a new yorker except for my 12 years in d.c. i like new york. i like manhattan. i enjoy living here. >> any book left in you? >> i hope so. if my brain holds out and if i can find the right person to help me organize some of the articles, scratchings that i've got, in whole row of three-ring

binders in the cabinet behind you, things that i hope will eventually go into a subsequent book. >> ray price, thank you for letting us come to your home. >> thank you for coming. >> for a dvd copy of this program, call 1-877-662-7726. for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at q-and-a.org. "q and a" programs are also available as c-span podcasts. from the colonial era, prohibition to today, drinking for better or worse has always been a part of the american

landscape. tonight live on "american history tv" "a history of alcohol in america." watch our simulcast of "backstory" with the american history guide, our hosts regale with tales of beer and spirits in america, tonight at 8:00 eastern, part of "american history tv" this weekend on c-span3. the single largest and most impressive civil war monument in washington to a military officer is the statue to general grant. even though he was president of the united states, it's really his service as the commanding general of the union army that made him famous. it's a very unusual statue. it faces down the mall from the lincoln memorial, and it's right at the base of the capitol. it's actually several statues

together, and it was constructed over time. it was constructed and designed by a man named henry schraddy who was not a professional artist. he was a wealthy man that went into art and literally gave his life to making this statue which took decades to do and it was built in stages. first the marble base was erected around 1910. then in 1912 a depiction of the artillery in the civil war was added and in 1916 a depiction of the cavalry was added, and in 1920 the enormous statue of general grant. the statue itself is 17 feet tall. it's on i think a 20-foot pedestal, and the statue weighs something like 10,000 pounds, bronze horse with the figure of general grant sort of slumped down. people have said that the horse looks more alert than general grant does. the horse's ears are up as if he's hearing battle.

but grant had a pose and indeed he seemed to be unfazed, he was sort of waiting in the distance for the report of what was going on i guess, that's what the sculpture was trying to show. the other statues on the other side are not glory to war. the artillery is in the mud. it's raining. have been looks wet and uncomfortable. one of the reins has broken loose and some of the horses are bolting. it just looks like a miserable day. the cavalry, one of the horses is falling. and a rider is being thrown to the ground and he's clearly going to be trampled to death by the other riders. and schraddy used his own face for the fallen rider which was somewhat symbolic, because doing this, these magnificent bronzes, took years and took its toll on him, and they were going