we made a mistake into thinking this internet should be free. so what do you see happening today? the polarization that existed between digital and analog an traditional media is actually much less severe because itunes says we need your don't. google l says on youtube, we need professional content and then the question is the math problem. how much are you going to pay for it? c brk s says i'm willing to sell it to amazon, netflix, but how much are you willing to pay? that's where we are now. but that's the hope of science. and aps. >> it seems to me that what apple did, what others are doing, with aps, allows a more options on a -- >> people can do publishing for free, which is great. books if they don't have advertising on them, but sell, which is great. >> when i did in 1991, i came

out with a book on television networks and at the time, broadcasters had one revenue stream. then they sold in the secondary market, syndication, if they own the show. now you think about it, if you're a broadcaster, you get money, you're going to get money from facebook. amazon. netflix. from the cable channels that you're running your shows and repeats. you've got multiple -- and retransmission. >> do you think newspapers will ever have that option? >> no. >> to have google pay me? >> the problem is that google would say we can get information from other services. free. >> i don't think that the payments question is answered yet. i think there are a loft exp

experiments going on right now. setting up to solve the problem of a single institution is not going to lead you to the answer to payments online generally. i think in the end, we in newspapers probably will benefit by some broader payment solution where people are paying for information the way that people pay for electricity of water. information that comes to the utility, you pay a bill from "the new yorker," "the washington post," maybe the eesn you watched and that's your bill. if we can get to a place like that, then maybe we benefit as part of a larger project. >> they're doing that in eastern europe. that pools newspapers. >> to be american historian -- >> i'm in e-mail touch with him. that is your brother, right. i didn't know that. broccoli. right. >> right. not many people named broccoli. just to give the historical

context, when they did the original comments, there was going to be a metering function where kept track of everything that happened because tim burners and many others felt that whoever was putting the information out, you should allocate the resources to it and that never, still sort of deeply embedded in the dna of other hyper text mark languages. >> next question here, you get to end with your brotherhood of man -- >> mark's going to do that. >> i'm fine. >> i wonder if there is a third possible source of revenue beyond advertising and direct subscription payment and things of that sort? call it philanthropy, call it investment, there are experiments being run in trying to aggregate money to commission content that is more of the

reflective in depth sort we've been bemoaning and of the edition. do you per sue any conditions in which that would be more than an isolated decision, more citizens invest in the creation of content? >> you raise a lot of money, there are foundations now that are willing to and are sponsoring journalism and other streams of content that interest them. i don't see it as a big solution right now. i think, i don't think there's, i think right now, there's no single model. we need to look at everything. if it turns out that's the source of funding for journalism that can be an independent objective to the kind of stuff we care about, then we would consider it. i don't see a model emerging totally dependent on philanthro philanthropy. >> there's obviously foundation

funding and very serious jour l journalistic enterprise and run by your pred se sor and many newspapers, i'm reading -- national awards thing and every year now, they do really good work. you pick it up. it's an isolated model. but i were running a journalistic institution and i learned this living in silicon valley. i would go hire an engineer that spoke english and put them in the office next to me and because the engineers are the content creators. those aps are created by engineers and they're coders. they know how to do that. they know how to reinvent content in new ways and force

the interview or publishers to think in fresh ways about how do i arrive at this. >> the three languages you ought to speak, chinese, arabic and coding. you've got to know the language of how to engineer a product. quickly to sum it up, what makes you hopeful, what do you think they're coming down the pike over the next five years? what's the new, new thing that might happen? >> everything is continuing to gravitate towards that hand held device and you're going to see many more things. the speeds are are going to be greatly enhanced and you're going to see a lot of cool new aps. >> if you said to me, five years

from now, what's going to be the hot new thing. if i were mark zuckerberg, i couldn't answer that question and one of the reasons mark zuckerbergs is frightened is because they know everything happening so fast that tomorrow, he may be extinlgt himself just as newspapers worry about these things and that's actually a hopeful sign. that's what's different about this age. fr the speed of change is expo nen shlly. >> two answers, first, i think it's an exciting time digitally. i think i would reduce it to mobile-social video. those things are going to be transforming and transformtive. second thing, i'm greatly encouraged because every indication we have, we know more about our audience is that when what our audience cares most about is strong journalism. good journalism works and is

hugely encouraging. >> i think the new new thing that will be transforming the next five years will be siri and your iphone, put in just voice recognition, which sort of leads to an artificial intelligence. where you can just communicate with any device. it learns anything you want. the interface is so simple. show me something on media. cha charlie rose, and it will do that for you. and i think natural user interfaces and interfaces that learn your preferences and the preferences of all your friends and aggregate the wisdom of your friends and your own preferences by allowing you simply to talk to them will help in the future. >> really well said, walter. in a way, it's like the new remote control of life. it controls everything in your life. and if you google and you think you're on top of the world, siri is a much more efficient search

engine. >> right. >> so they have to worry about that. >> thank you all very much. thank you friends that have sponsored this. let me just say, this communication series is start wg a narrative art and we have started with those three of us who for 20 or 30 years have been part of traditional media and looking into the new way and we hope each one will bring on new waves of people who started different parts of the new media spectrum and we invite marcus and ken and myself back for the very last one when we try to make a synthesis and show where it may all be going. thank you all very much.

in a few moments, a discussion on renewable and sustainable injury. two hours, a hearing on war reform. after that, the senate ageing committee looks at long-term care. charles colson died this past weekend at age 80. he talked about the white house taping system in 2007. >> kissinger had the right although he abused it. to come into the office without having somebody announce him or take him in. kissinger could just walk in when he wanted to. nixon told him that because of the severity of the foreign policy. feel free to interrupt anything.

henry would do it for a trivial reason and one day, nixon was really kind of ticked off at henry for a variety of things and i said, executive office the door, the far door swung open. it was henry. caught a glance. nixon did not appear to look up, but i know he knew it was henry. he immediately said to me i think you're right about that, chuck. i think it's time we use nuclear weapons. everything else has failed. and kissinger stood in the doorway absolutely paralyzed. that's on a tape somewhere. somebody's going to hear that on a tape somewhere, oh, my lord, this nixon was a madman. colson did bring out the dark side. >> hear more about his political career, water gate and his later reform on cspan.

one of the things i always remember because my office overlooked the building, there was a day care center in the plaza and some of the children were killed. others injured. but during their recess period, they would always come play out here in the plaza and you would hear their voices, so that left a lasting impression of course when they were silenced. my son, a dear friend of his in high school, she had just gr graduated and was working in the social security office. her father was a good friend of mine. when i got home that morning, three different messages. first, wanting to know what he could find out about his daughter, second, it didn't look good and third was when he was crying. watch our local content vehicle's next stop. exploring the history and literary culture of oklahoma

city. with p special airings the weekend of may the 5th and 6th and on american history tv on history tv. now, a form on renewable and sustainable energy development at the conference in june. this is about an hour and 55 minutes cht good morning, ladies and gentlemen. let me encourage everyone to come in and sit down. and good morning, ladies and gentlemen. i'm nancy birdsol.

a warm welcome to all of you. i'm the president for the center of global development. we're very pleased to have you all here. i know that for many of you, you're here because of rio plus 20. what can be done? this is a huge opportunity for the global community to worry over and put together some serious recommendations to deal with the energy, poverty, climate nexus. this is crucial for our center for global development because we are concerned with risk that greenhouse gas emissions pose for the development project. for the great success of reducing poverty over many years and were concerned with the observe need f obvious need access for millions

of poor people if they are going to have better livelihoods, dignified jobs and so on. we're particularly concerned at the center with what the united states can do. what's the role at rio plus 20? so that's one focus of today's discussion. it's a tough year for the u.s. and the administration. it's an election year. there are fiscal problems obviously, but i'm very pleased to say that you will be hearing soon from nigel purvis about a report he did with us and for us q which emp siszs the enormous contribution the u.s. can make without attacking its budget problems. nigel is the coconspirator on putting together this event. he is the ceo of climate advisers. a senior visiting associate for a center for global development, a former deputy assistant

secretary of state. we will also hear soon from our danish coconspirators along with cgd and climate advisers. we will have two sessions this morning. the first one is about the global context and i will be moderating that session. the second is about the role of the u.s. and nigel will be moderating that session. for those who came in the hope of hearing from kande, because of health concerns, he had to stay in europe, but we have an incredible program ahead of us. and for that reason, also, we want to apologize now to you and to our speakers. we're going to keep very, very strict time. because of the secretary general's schedule, we need to really be on time and finish at 11:

11:45. as i said, this is a partnership of cgd climate advisers and the embassy of denmark. to start off, i'm very pleased to introduce from the government of brazil, the host, of course for rio plus 20, ronesto, the dcm at the embassy here in washington. >> i'm like to begin by thanking nancy, the embassy of denmark and climate advisers for the opportunity to say a few words in this event on such a crucial. the distinguished panel, this event today, it touches upon two very important items in the world of course, but also

brazil's agenda. namely energy and sustainable development. next june, rio plus 20 will give the opportunity to take stock of the last 20 year of work on sustainable development and to shape the debate for the decades to come. we hope rio can help develop new concepts and guidance for our work. among those subjects of course is energy, brazil has been over less years as you know, we're on the forefront of promoting sustainable development. sustainable energy and sustainable development initiatives by feels as the most famous or most known initiative of course, but bio fuel ss not the end of the story.

many have implemented other initiatives. all leading to the concept that we need to address the energy to from the point of view of social inclusion and economic growth and brazil's recent history has proved that we can address that without a conflict between growth on the one hand and sustainability on the other. we can prove that we can have both at the same time. but for all those reasons, we're glad that such an important event is taking place today and we are sure that the panels this morning will approve very important contribution and efforts to rio plus 20. >> thank you.

so now we plunge into our first session. could i invite tim worth and v.j. eyre? to come up and sit down. and while they come up, let me introduce them very briefly. i think tim is very well-known to all of you here. he's a former senator from colorado. a form er under secretary of state for global affairs and climate negotiator and he is currently the founding president. it's been about ten years i think of the 10 or 11 years. just about when we started. that's why i know, of united nations foundation and a better world for all. v.j. is the director of energy issues at the world bank. we're very pleased to have both of them. let me just say another word at the substance of the panel.

this session is about the global set-up and what's the global challenge. as i said in my opening remarks, for us at the center concerned primarily with the challenge of development, work the colleagues of mine have done over the last decade really has driven home for me the crisis that's out there because of climate change. under business as usual. it does put at risk much of the progress that's been made. in ensuring that people can escape poverty over the last decade. and part of the problem of course is that for the rich in the world, there's resources to adjust to the extreme weather shocks and other problems that climate change can bring. for the world's poor, that just isn't the same case. the welfare implications of climate change are tremendous

for them. at the same time, there's no question from other work we have done at the center and that so many others have done, many of you in the audience, that without access to energy, it is not possible for people to work themselves out of poverty. it's all about energy if it's irrigation, it's the ability to irrigate your fields. whether it's the ability to work in a factory with a good job because power is accessible. whether it's the ability to have your children studying at night and on rainy days under a good roof at school, energy is fundamental to the process of people of development itself. so, the problem of course is that if it's dirty energy, then they're fighting against each other in terms of reducing poverty. so that's the challenge that we face and the one that we're about to hear more about, i hope, in terms of what it is and what to do about it. it's all about the efforts to

end energy poverty that are -- how can that be made compatible with reduced emissions and a climate friendly world. so, i think we're first going to hear from tim. if you would come up and tell us what you can about this dilemma. >> well thank you very much, nancy and center for global development does a wonderful job of providing a framework and providing a forum for so many of the most important issues in town and you know, facing the country. many of which get lost in this political environment and it's difficult to talk about anything outside the 48 maybe the 50 states, so nancy, thank you so much for doing this. nigel, thank you for helping to put all of this together. let me begin by saying that it's

always surprising to me that talking about energy and the international system, energy and the u.n. comes as a surprise to a lot of people or as nancy suggested, this really hasn't been done before. now, how could one possibly think about development around the world without having first of all a pretty sharp focus on energy, energy enables just about everything we want to have done in the process. that's particularly confusing when you look at the u.n. system. the u.n. essentially does two things. one, the blue helmet group and peace keeping activities, and second, a commitment to development. over the years, that xhiltment to development has included education activities and cently, totally left off the agenda. i can say what is that?

well, it was really the reason, if two reasons. united states has blocked for 60 years, the united states has essentially blocked any activities by the u.n. saying that's our sand box. don't get involved in it. we'll control all those issues and they were aided by the saudis in an alliance of others. so it's been very, very difficult politically for the u.n. to try to get any traction at all on the question of energy. kofi annan tried to open a window on energy and do so as rio plus 10 and came out with an agreement to set up an energy office, but not much had happened with that until ban ki-moon came in. surprisingly, ban ki-moon coming out of south korean foreign

ministry where people thought he was going to be diplomatic, traditional, ban ki-moon arrived at the u.n. with two very deep and surprising commitments. a very deep commitment to living an working on climate change and energy and to working on women's issues and how do you engage women much more actively in the international system. and those two priorities have driven his administration. he's now just been re-elected. as all of you know. for a second term and has driven his first five years and now in particular are the very r sharp edge for his second five years. and this brings us to rio plus 20. if we put rio plus 20 in a context, it is going to be the first of a number of very important sort of weigh stations between now and 2015. and those weigh stations get us to the second phase of the development goals. a system of thinking about

poverty and development around the world that is not something that most people in the united states know much about, but which have become guiding principles and frameworks for countries all over the world. seven basic development goals focused on poverty, women, hunger, aids and so on. seven basic goals plus a number of sub goals. those were started in 2000. the first phase is over in 2015 and the second will kick in in 2015. so what should be in that second phase? many people have said that energy is the missing mgg. energy was not included as a specific focus with a specific target in the original development of the goals. and i think many, many people looking at rio and the work that the secretary general has done are hoping that the second phase

will include a very important framework. what should that be? the secretary general over the last five years using a number of outside tax forces, extensive analysis, providing a high level task force and the commitments of hundreds and hundreds of companies has developed a program for all. sustainable energy for all has three basic goals to it that have been worked through -- sustainable development. this is part of the building process across the international system. sustainable energy for all includes three basic goals. one access to sustainable energy for everybody in the world who wants it by 2030. there are currently 1.7 million

people who do not have any access to electricity and 2.5 million who have access to basic fuels. the second purpose of the program is to double the rate of efficiency around the world and the third is penetration of renewable energy around the world. pick up and become part of the program of action and one of the major outcomes of rio and that in turn will be translated into the discussions through the development of the mdg. so it's a very, very important time in terms of the history of the u.n. ban ki-moon's own administration and a very important time for the world's development of its own development agenda, the second phase of the md