which now carries 800,000 people a day, with drastic reductions in pollution and greenhouse gas emissions and more congenial way of life. that is but one of the interventions that we have, and we work very closely with the chinese government and with others to promote efficiency in appliances, in india, for example, where we have a foundation, a shakti, a new regional climate foundation. and i want to suggest that you reflect on the history of something that was done for food and agriculture research, seed research primarily some years ago. in 1960, norman borlaug was an instrumental scientist in the green revolution research funded for ten years by the rockefeller foundation, for ten years, by the way, without any obvious progress being noted, a great philanthropic commitment. the international institute for rice was created in the philippines. some six years later the

institutes for maize and wheat was created in mexico. in 1972 a suggestion was made, i think by morris strong, who had been the secretary general of the stockholm conference and canadian, that the united nations, the world bank actually take over the secretariat and the funding for what then became a series of these institutes designed to promote seed development, food productivity in all parts of the world. secretary general of the -- of the world bank then was robert mcnamara. he embraced this program. and there emerged something called the consultative group on international agricultural research. my expectation, climate works' expectation for the conference in rio, is to create a consultative group on low emissions development. if that is done, climate works

will commit to substantial matching funding of the initial outlays made by the world bank and international aid and development organizations. that is a very specific commitment, sense of expectation, and i think a very practical and necessary one that could be of enormous assistance in meeting the secretary general's important goals of energy access to all, significantly more efficiency, and significantly more renewables. i close with a remark that i think i remember more or less accurately from senator moynihan when he said, if i have learned one thing in my career, it is that success of a culture, of a society, is about culture, not policy, but policy can transform culture can, change it for the better.

and the two together have worked historically to improve life very considerably for all of us. thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you very much, bill and carlos, for those great remark. we now have about 15, 20 minutes to hear from the audience. there is a microphone in the back. i'd like to ask that you raise a hand and then when the mike comes to you, you identify yourself for the benefit of our audience. so we have a first question over here. >> thank you. i'm from the turkish industry and business association. we've been talking a lot about what governments can do for policy. and i'm just wondering what the business community can do better to promote these goals better. >> great. it's a good question. we're going to do just as we did from our first session, which is to collect three or four questions. right here in the aisle. >> hi.

tom nagle from world resource institute here in washington, d.c. my question, some of the comments mr. pascual made earlier on the role of small projects in providing energy access in particular. it seems that the sefa initiative has really focused on mobilizing the private sector, which i think is important. but i also see a mismatch perhaps with the size and scale of those projects and players. you give some comments about how de-risking smaller projects could be done. but i'd also like to hear about the thoughts on the particular role of small and medium enterprises in providing energy access, particularly in rural communities with decentralized renewable energy technologies. >> thank you. >> thanks. lisa freedman again from climate wire. it was interesting to hear the specific commitment from climate works.

for mr. pascaul, what will we see from the u.s.? what specific commitments will the u.s. make in rio? >> thank you. [ laughter ] >> let's take a couple more questions while carlos thinks about that. as he said, in fairness to him, he is leading the energy issue and not coordinating all of the government's work on rio. so we have realistic expectations about what he can say. a couple other questions right here. >> sorry to ask another question, but are we going to have a commitment on actually phasing out subsidies to fossil fuels? i mean, enough already. i think this is one of the things that is really stopping a level playing field. >> great. michelle? last question. >> okay. i didn't want to do this. but since two of my predecessors have also asked a second question, i have a question about hydro. the international hydro association says the hydro potential in africa is twice the energy needs of africa.

and it's not a new -- a known risky unscaled technology like renewables. why don't we hear more about hydro? >> great. >> carlos? >> great questions. and i'll try to go through them quickly, because, in fact, on just about each individual one of those, we can have a little seminar to talk about them. and, in fact, that's part of what we need to do to continue to develop these. in terms of the kinds of commitments that are helpful -- you cannot hear me? how about now, better? okay. in terms of the kinds of things that the business community can do, one of the things that's been absolutely critical is getting insights from the business community on standards and performance that you had been putting forward that are absolutely key to then integrating into a global dialogue, and then for countries to be able to pick up on these and integrate them into their discussion. i mentioned sort of in running the issue of building codes. we obviously have lead standards that start in the united states, have gone global. johnson controls have been

working on this extensively. i need to learn more about the best practices groups that you're developing under climate works. but here is an area that is absolutely fundamental. and if you think about india and china and the extent to which their energy use is building-based, residential-based, and then if you put it in the perspective that most of the buildings they're going to have in 2030, 2050 haven't been built, and if you can get an adoption of codes that are developed in conjunction with the private sector, and if it's done in a way that can be financeable, you can change the whole equation, you can change that entire infrastructure equation that we're going to be facing 20 or 30 years out down the road. i think if you take similar approaches and you look at the steel industry, for example, and if the steel industry can come to an understanding of what kinds of measures -- things that

you've been working on in climate works, it's related as well to the question of financing. let me jump over to that, that question a second. one of the big challenges that we have in finance is it's a lot easier to get money into large-scale projects, and it's a lot easier to manage the -- the political risk insurance. it's a lot easier to be able to work directly on the project to be able to give people a sense or investors a sense of the financial or the technical viability of those projects. it's a lot easier to deal with specific interests like guaranteeing the power purchase agreements. when you're dealing with small-scale projects, here the challenge becomes multiplied because many different groups around in this room, i suspect, and i know the world bank can talk about specific projects, let's say small-scale skoalary

projects that have been integrated with cell phone systems that allow pre-purchases mechanisms where you can then on the basis of that have power which is actually sent to your small little hut in a village and you have the ability to actually use wireless technology to read the meters. really interesting projects that are developing along those scales. the question is how do you get -- how do you create that into a viable business model? because in the end you're going to have to figure out, okay, the international providers of that technology are not going to come into that level of the market. you're going to have to figure out how do you create partnerships with local entities? how do you build up enough capacity in those partnerships to be able to ensure that you have the ability to service those projects and maintain them technically sound over time? and then if you start bundling the projects together, you come back to the question i mentioned before. how do you ensure that the bundles of projects are

absolutely sound so that if you then bring them back into an -- a financial intermediary, you're not selling a product which is filled with junk or half filled with junk that could then create a financial crisis for you later on. and so, one of the challenges that we're trying to work through is how do -- how do you back work through the system and takes the kind of financial instruments that may exist? in technical assistance, on the projects to be able to ensure technical feasibility, a.i.d., for example, has a development credit authority that can develop partial guarantees between small-scale projects and intermediary in-country investors. how can that be combined as part of the package? and then extending that back into the broader financial community where opec can play a very important role, for example, in the past year they have provided $1 billion worth

of new renewable energy finance. that might get you renewable large-scale projects but we need to get more of that to intermediaries that can push it down, so that's the challenge that we're working through. it's an ongoing challenge. next week at the clean energy ministerial, one of the things that the u.n. foundation is going to be doing is funding a number of side sessions that we're going to have with a range of different potential financial partners, and we're trying to work through this flow chart and figure out where do we need the interventions, and how do we put those interventions in place? terms of the u.s. commitment then, what you'll see out of a u.s. commitment, particularly an energy in rio, concerns lines that i'm talking about right now, and i'm obviously not going to say what the u.s. commitment is. why else would you go to rio? but -- but think about it from this perspective. how did we mobilize technical assistance that can be made available at those critical points of intervention? whether it is in the small-scale

projects, whether it's in some form of guarantees in the financing system, whether it's providing greater assurance on on-grid power that you have utilities that are viable, that are able to function, that you have -- that have tariff rates that can actually compensate the technology. all of those kinds of things in which we can work with those countries together. whether we're providing support to ngos on the ground that can play an important role in creating marketing networks, for example, on cook stoves, another important type of contribution we can make, and all of those kinds of things will then be packaged together, but here's the note that i would close on. i think that to be effective one of the things that we have to do is put them together in packages that actually work rather than just simply having statements of commitment that say we're going to do some things here and not understanding how the pieces come together. i haven't answered your question

on hydro and actually it's a longer question, a huge hydro potential in africa and especially southern africa and still there's some people that have a glint in the eye about the inga dam and drc, potentially powering all of africa. this kay, vijay iyer used to run the power -- was it the power sector, all of the energy sector for africa at world bank, but it's a topic maybe we can come back to because i think there's a huge amount of potential there, peslition with some change happening in south africa now and being a bigger market that could essentially be the demand focus that helps provide the financial security necessary for financing in the hydro sector. >> i'd like you to answer the questions that you thought of most relevant to you, but if you could add to your remarks something about how you, having lived through the original rio, would advice this president, if you were serving in the white house, on the question about

whether he should go and to think about how to define the u.s. contribution at rio. you have a special window into that decision-making process and i think the audience would benefit a lot from your analysis of how that decision would be viewed by the white house. >> well, there's no question that if the president decides to go to rio he will be attacked for ignoring the problem of jobs at home in order to engage in an international talk fest which is not likely to produce concrete achievements that he can campaign on in the near term. that's the way it was phrased and posed to first president bush, and it will be no doubt posed to president obama, and there's a lot of truth in that -- in that because it will become an issue in the campaign, i'm quite sure, if he goes. a lot of people will be disappoint federal he doesn't go. i remember president collora said to me it's absolutely vital to the success of the conference and to brazil and united states relationships that president bush come, and he said i promise we will do everything to not embarrass the president and to

make this work, recognizing he is is in the middle of a campaign. he's going to have to sort those things out. he's got a constituency that will very much want him to go to rio and want him to continue to play a role, a significant role, as he did at copenhagen on the world stage where environmental policies and priorities are discussed and furthered. on the question coming back to the business question what can businesses do, and i'm reminded of a conversation i once had with the president of mexico about their intervention in the then gatt, now the world trade organization, to try to prohibit the u.s. which was trying to basically ban tuna for sale in the united states if it was not dolphin-safe because of the way in which it was -- the tuna were set upon, hollowing dolphin, and he immediately got the point, and he said i will fix, that and he withdrew the application. he said under no circumstances do i want to win in the gatt and

see mexican tuna unable to carry the label in american supermarkets dolphin-safe. and i remember thinking that really was the genius of the forward stewardship council created by world wildlife fund and others some years ago and the marine stewardship council both of which are labeling non-governmental organizations. in fact, one of the most successful regulations in the united states is lead building certification and it's not a regulation but a major developner california, the person who built the stadium in l.a., told me you cannot get lending for a significant building from a bank in california if it's not lead certified. well, that tells you something, and my own history with creating the program when i was at epa of energy star computer and then the energy star program growing, in the beginning these were only advisory, only informational, and they had a significant impact. if you look at unilever today or walmart made notable commitments to sustainable fisheries and

exclusively to sustainable fisheries and throughout their supply chain. the president of walmart said very clearly, the ceo of walmart, we took stock of world fisheries and concluded that if something is not done, there are important species that we will not be selling in five years that we now sell profitably because there just won't be enough. well, that's -- that i think -- that perception and the degree to which it has permeated the culture has significantly affected particularly consumer-facing companies in the united states and much of the developed and developing world and i think elsewhere as well. that is beginning to transform business culture, and it's having i think an appreciable effect on sustainable purchaser or purchasers of sustainable products, on organic harvesting techniques, non-chemical techniques and the like. >> we have a couple of minutes before we begin our keynote addresses. like to give a few more minutes

to the audience and give our speakers a final chance for their closing remarks. in the back here. >> hello, my name is kathleen. i'm from dahlberg global development advisers. i've heard a lot of emphasis from both of you speakers about the multi-billion dollar commitment that will be required from the public -- from the private sector in order to fund sustainable energy access to all, but there seems to be a difference of emphasis about the funding that will go to research and funding that will go to roll out of these initiatives, so i guess i'd be interested to hear you talk more about what the appropriate ball is for researching new technologies and also expanding the delivery of existing solutions. >> great. and our final question, the gentleman right here. i'm diego, american university student. thank you for taking a second question, and my question is what is the stand of the united states and the global community

on biofuels and other alternative energies that are more controversial, with nuclear energy with all the things that have happened recently? what is the role in the rio plus 20 conference? >> great. carlos, in one minute if you could answer what you want out of those questions and also offer any thoughts that you had intended to get to today but haven't had a chance yet. >> i'll go real quick. in terms of balance of public and private funds, there's absolutely no doubt that there are public funds that are necessary for research and development for feasibility studies, for technical assistance, and how much out of that $48 billion is necessary for public funds. would i have a hard time putting specific amount on. i think that the question that we need to keep on asking ourselves is how to get results, and if the result is to generate the investment that's necessary on specific projects, let's look become wards then at the technical assistance and the private sector financing requirements on that and

understand related to those investments how do you get the right combination of public and private capital in. i think the key point that we're trying to get at here is point trying to get at is we can't just look at this as a public funding goal, it has to be something that leverages capital. the global biofuels energy partnership that was created last year. and in may of last year, they came together on 24 recommendations, eight of them environmental, eight of them social, eight of them economic that cireates standards in biofuels. even though i said stop, we're going to take one more minute to talk about one thing that happened this weekend which is very important. that's summit of the americas. one of the things that was put forward there was an initiative called 202236789 -- 2022.

it's going to advance a to the point that you make these interconnection and extend them out further. they may seem relatively boring. but if you look at how to expand the access of bigger security, you need bicker markets for hydro, for wind for solar. if you look at it from the perspective of advancing technologies such as smart grids, we need it from the perspective of being able to make those connections and this gives us a whole new process of how we can advance the positions of renewable energy in the western hemisphere. >> let me just say to get private investment into a number of areas, it's -- i referred to something carlos said about the

polity of the united states which is to open markets in the united states bank on this in every international conference, is a bit of a broken record. it happens to be true. i can think of places where subsidies and constraints upon access to markets has prevented efficient investment for example in power, but also in -- causing the water table to drop, 15, 20 feet ayear and producing low value crops, these are counter productive policies, there are a number of various creation of power facilities in a number of emerging companies, much more accessible power would have been presented by private companies.

they are there for the taking, and they are reform. and increasing renewables and the rest. this is the way to do it. >> please join me in thanking our panel. it's been more than 20 years since los angeles police officers were videotaped beating rodney king after a traffic stop. the officers were found not guilty of police brutality that sparked the los angeles rioting that killed 53 people. he later wrote a book called "the riot within". you can see it live on book tv's

website at 6:30 p.m. eastern. tomorrow the supreme court considers whether it has the authority to enact a state immigration law in 2010. or if the -- >> i ought to step up as a, not just as a citizen and as a journalist, but as a father and a husband and a grandfather. and if i see these things, i ought to write bit them and try

to start this dialogue. which is what i'm trying to do with this book about where we need to get to next. >> he in his latest "the time of our lives." sunday may 6, the former anchor of nbc nightly news, he's written about the greatest generation, the 1960s and today. mr. mukasey was inspector general. he spoke last week to the republican national lawyers association.

>> hi had a well earned reputation as a premier litigate for, a lawyer's lawyer, who could do it all. a lawyer whose written work and oral arguments were superb. >> in 1998, president reagan appointed him to the district bench.

>> monk t among the many military -- was the case of omar abdul roman, the blind chsheik. teaching the world. a year later, he answered the call of public service again, when president bush asked him to become attorney general of the united states and guide the department of justicethrough some various stormy waters. at a press conference upon his nomination, judge mucasey sid that's not all the task before us.

the justice department must also protect the safety of our children, the commerce that assures or prosperity and the rights and liberties that define us as a nation. once again he brought his steady hand to the tiller guided by a moral compass that was and is infallible and an understanding of the constitutional role of doj and a complete mastery of the law, he restored the nation's faith in a great and important agency. the faith i fear is once again imperil imperiled. in february of 2009, judge mukasey rietired once again fro public service. we all owe a debt of gratitude to this great man who has served our country with distinction and continues to be a voice of reason, articulating how the constitution and federal law empowers our elected officials to protect our citizens from

terrorism and tyranny if they are willing to exercise their -- address general or judge or judge general because through it all, he is simply mike mukasey, a man for all seasons who has always answered the call to public service and happily for us, answered our call to share his wisdom with us today. i give you judge michael mukasey. >> i want to thank larry from my notes. thank you for his kind introduction, i want to change that to lavish introio