too much. do people really buy that or is that -- or is this different types of -- let me let you discuss it. >> related to sports if you're going to play shine, you're going to get hurt. so if you're not dressed up taking the fight to them this can be -- you can hearst yourself first. you're not going to be ready for it. grant always pushing, being aggressive. looking for the right fight. he was protecting his men. mcclellan was i don't want to go there and all that. when a big fight did come they weren't ready for it. >> mcclellan does take a lot of casualties. >> then also like christina said these men enlisted to fight for somethingy that believed in or paid. so by not allowing them to fight, by trying to protect their lives i think mcclellan and the other generals are showing them a disservice. in theory they signed up to fight and win battles.

>> any one want to -- >> some of them were pressed in. yeah. >> by 63. you have a lot of people who are, i think i mentioned this in the previous class. the draft works in part not many men are directly conscripted but states are given quotas and they have to -- incentivized to pay a lot of commutation money, bonus money. >> and a lot of people even though they were with the draft they were able to get out by getting someone else to go. >> exactly. substitute. they are not all completely volunteers by this point. >> didn't the draft occur after mcclellan. >> we're talking about brad. >> arguing that he's giving service to his men by keeping them in camp when they wanted to fight. the counterpoint to the draft, doesn't apply to mcclellan. >> fair enough.

>> also by not allowing them to fight and not allowing them to win battles or argue that whoever does this is prolonging the war which is losing more lives. >> there is kind of a conflict between short-term and long term and that's then it's not adjudicating it correctly. any one else want to -- mr. roth. >> putting your men in battle you have trust in them that they will come through and win. but like shy away, general doesn't want to fight this battle because he doesn't think he can win this one f. that happens over and over. >> you guys are giving the very good institutional response. it's perfectly defensible. let me push back a little. john bell hood. okay. incredibly aggressive. men quite fond of him. what happens? destroys his own army.

by attacking. i forget his name. my good friend and colleague at chapel hill -- it's in sherman's army, he has a story about i can't remember which one, a core commander. who is very effective, aggressive, but somewhat disliked because he is seen as a bit too aggressive. a bit too ambitious. so there is a fine line between -- yes, troops want to win and troops understand they have to do certain things to do that. but when do you have an officer who may be wants that glory a little too much. >> you also have to think about the different dynamic between the officers and how they -- or the general and how they got in their position. you have political general there

is literally just to apiece border states and people with their opinions. then the generals who are like militarily efficient. so you have to look at the different backgrounds and how they got in this position. lincoln appoints people and they have no experience and they are leading green troops themselves. then you have people who are very familiar with battlefield tactics and they are viewed as overly aggressive but have the best knowledge and experience in the field so. who do you criticize. >> fair enough. a lot of times political generals are in place because out of respect to the desires of the troops. some of these controversial german immigrant generals, all who have dubious military careers but i fight mit siegel. that used to be the joke. yes.

exactly. they command -- the german speaking communities are actually politically quite important. if you do serious antebellum history, sometimes you have to learn germ tune read their newspapers. it depends on where you work. like st. louis maybe. but the political, it's partly because out of respect, to all of the points they are correct. sometimes you have examples where -- this is kind of a conflict. that time negotiating the gap between the potential conflict between concern for one's troops, what the troops want to do and mission accomplishment may be -- there may be a conflict there. there may be a way to square in the long view but this may look more ambiguous. i've seen this in counter

insurgency settings. you think all senior sco's or fond of roe and stuff. no they're not. i've seen -- these are platoon sergeants who do what they are told to but like they don't like these. what does the officer have to do? enforce them. a lot of times the marker after good unit is that they stop but they still do it. they grumble a little bit, especially if it's a senior non-com having a private conversation with his company commander. what do they do at the end of the day? that's the ethic that's taught. especially in high quality organizations. but there is -- there is a conflict. i don't want you to think these things can get messy on the ground. historically that's the case too. okay, so here's a question. a lot of times historians

phrase -- i think the consensus, lee was pretty good. although there is more of a debate, though perhaps that's because lee lost, so he's more open to criticism because he was on the losing side. you can say all these bad things about grant. what does he do at the end of the day? he wins. maybe he wins ugly but he wins. so a lot of times the debate comes back down did he win too ugly. all that being said, who here thinks that lee is superior to grant. who would take lee over grant. ten. takes grant. you have the right to abstain. the better general, whatever

that means. your criteria. not 18 bar fight. never would have involved himseveral in such activities. who would take grant over lee? i think there is an eight. eight or nine. all right. lee by a nose. that's interesting. i'm a little surprised by that. >> doing the simulator. >> all right. okay. i'll see you on monday. all right. have a good weekend. >> lectures in history airs each saturday at 8:00 p.m. and midnight eastern. and sundays at 1:00 p.m.

we feature classroom lecture from across the country on topics. to keep up with american history tv or to send us questions and comments follow us on twitter. at twitter.com/c-spanhistory. >> this year's student cam competition asked students across the country what part of the constitution was important to them and why. here's this year's grand prize winning video on the fifth amendment titled "the constitution and the camps." ♪ >> neither the army nor the location authority relish the idea of taking men, women and children from their home, their shops and farms. so the military and civilian agencies alike determined to do the job as a democracy should. with real consideration for the people involved.

>> and i knew that if i did not tell my story, then my four nieces and my three children would really not hear what actually happened to us. we were shocked to see covered army trucks and soldiers with bayonets on their rifles. i couldn't get over the notion that we were going to be taken away and shot. when i got off i couldn't believe what i saw. soldiers with machine guns stood in 20-foot high guard towers situated at strategic point ace long the perimeter of a huge camp. the area was encased in steel wire fencing topped by three rows of barbed wire. black tar paper barracks were laid out along the flat terrain. they didn't call us citizens because it's illegal to imprison

citizens without due process. >> but they did imprison u.s. citizens without due process. over 110,000 of them who happened to be of japanese ancestry. >> these american sittens were uprooted from their homes, taken away from their businesses and sent to places like this. >> one of these citizen was my great uncle john. uncle john was a dental student in california at the beginning of world war ii. he was rounded up along with all other japanese americans on the west coast and sent to an internment camp far away from his home in california. i traveled to the relocation camp to learn more about my uncle's experience. this camp is over 200 miles from

los angeles. there were ten camps like this in remote locations where japanese americans like my uncle john were confined. two months after the attack on pearl harbor, president roosevelt issued executive order 9066, that authorized the removal of over 110,000 japanese americans from their homes on the west coast. more than two-thirds were american-born u.s. citizens. over 10,000 men, women and children spent several years of their lives here at this camp. they brought with them only what they could carry from their homes. i wanted to understand how this happened to uncle john and i want to learn what protects us from this happening again. experts have tried to explain why this took place. >> well, after the attack on pearl harbor which had been a sneak attack, don't let anybody tell you that there wasn't a lot

of fear on the west coast at the time because they had barrage balloons up in san francisco, a japanese sub was sighted off santa barbara. so there was real fear that the japanese would also attack the west coast. but the urging for the detention of the japanese came from the civilians saying we don't have time to find out whether any of these people individually are disloyal. we've got to intern all of them. >> by 1944 one of the most interesting parts of this is it was also apparent there had never been a basis for holding these people. >> never. and at the time the man in charge, general dewitt, knew there was no basis. he had been told that by j. edgar hoover. he told him the fbi doesn't want these people moved. we know who the spies are and they aren't it. >> the due process clause of the fifth amendment is supposed to

balance the hower of the government against the rights of its citizens. due process did not protect the japanese americans during the internment. substantive due process requires that the government live up to high standards that try to take away fundamental rights like life, liberty or property. procedural due process means that the government can't take away your rights without adequate notice and a hearing before a neutral judge. the government took people to court who resisted the internment. those trials, though, did not provide procedural due process because the government didn't present its evidence fairly. one example is a citizen named fred who is about my uncle's age when he was arrested for refusing internment. it was argued that it was illegal to imprison him in the

camps. >> in 1942, fred koromatsu opposed the forced internment of japanese americans in world war ii. after being convicted for failing to report for relocation, he took his case all the way to the supreme court. the high court ruled against him. but 39 years later, he had his conviction overturned in federal court empowering tens of thousands of japanese americans, giving him what he said he wanted most of all. the chance to feel like an american once again. >> fred karamatsu stood up for his constitutional rights. his daughter dedicated her life to educating people about her

father's legacy. she spoke with me about her father when i met with her recently. >> the japanese americans had to be put into the internment camps without any due process. there was no hearings, there were no trials. >> mto know that it was a horri experience. he felt it was an unjust act by the government. and his question in his mind am i an american or am i not. >> i finished my trip by visiting the memorial site that commemorated the lives and the liberties that were lost there. the japanese characters say that it is a monument to console the souls of the dead. for the living, it is a reminder that the constitution has its weaknesses. we all need to be protective of our civil liberties for times when the government decides to set them aside.

>> after two years in the camps, my uncle served in the army and became a successful dentist. fred koromatsu received the presidential medal of freedom for his life long commitment to our constitutional rights. these stories from the internment camps remind us how vital due process is for protecting our freedom. >> go to student cam.org to watch all of the videos and continue the conversation about today's documentary at our facebook and twitter pages. >> student camp 2012 grand prize winner matthew shimura joining us from hawaii and senator uinoye. matthew, let me begin with you. about how you came to the topic of japanese american internment camps as well as finding that

part of the constitution that applies to that part of our u.s. history. >> well, i came to the topic by after learning about my great uncle john's story. and after learning about him more through my family i started researching the japanese internment through a number of books, then i became interested in the topic and that's how i chose it. >> and those that just saw your documentary could see the long list of research that you went through, articles, you went through c-span's video library. how much time did you spend on it? >> i spent through the whole project i think i spent over 100 hours doing the whole thing. by researching many books and looking like the enemy and looking up different supreme

court cases and the c-span footages of the justices breyer and rehnquist and talking to eric yamamoto who represented fred karamatsu. >> were people willing to talk to you to be part of your documentary? >> yes. people were really nice about letting me interview them, especially karen karamatsut daughter. she had a it through say about her father's legacy which included standing up for our rights and making sure we stand up and look out for things when they are not right. >> what part of the constitution applies to that part of our history? >> well, in my movie i talked about the due process clause of the fifth amendment and talked about procedural and substantive due process. procedural due process means that the government can take away your rights without a

neutral judge and jury. and substantive due process means that the government can take away your natural rights called life, liberty process. procedural. >> your state senator here, what was your reaction when you saw matthew's documentary and the topic that he chose as a japanese american yourself? >> i was impressed and surprised. it looked very professional. to think that a young man had produced this, very impressive. i later learned that he was number one out of 1200. >> yeah. >> that makes hawaii very proud. >> right, right. what's your reaction, though, for a ninth grader picking a topic like this as our part, that part of our u.s. history,

something that happened many, many years ago, decades ago? >> obviously, it was just not casual because his family was involved. i'm certain this matter must have been discussed with his family, because you can sense the personal nature of this performance and his production. >> matthew, is that true? is that something that you and your family discussed before you did the documentary? >> pardon? >> is the history of the japanese encampmentes something you discussed before the documentary? >> i had to do a lot of research and i learned a lot more about

the japanese internmentes and able to see the footsteps of my uncle and how they lived there lives for a couple of years. >> through the process, did your thoughts about the constitution or due process change at all. >> i didn't really know about due process and the fifth amendment until after i did my movie. by doing the research, i learned a lot more about the topic and i became more informed about what really happened during the world war ii period. >> senator inouye, where were you? >> i was a senior in high school when december 7th occurred. about a month later, i was shocked to learn that the government of the united states had decided to designate the

number four c to all japanese. that simply means you are an enemy alien, not fit to put on the uniform for one thing and that we were considered to be disloyal or untrustworthy. many of us resented that. we petitioned the president of the united states and about a year after december the 7th, we got the word that the doors were open if you want to volunteer. however, we had no idea as to what was happening on the main

land. we had no idea that exactly the 9066 had been issued, because i am from hawaii. the news, all of it, was censored. so you would receive daily papers with black spots and i learned about the camps after camp shelby for my training. >> shelby. mp? >> yes. >> so at that point, you are training in the u.s. military to go fight for this country and you learn of the japanese american encampmentes. what was going through your mind as a japanese-american preparing to fight? >> the way it happened was rather unusual. main landers came in. we would ask them, where were you from? what does your father do? well, he has a shop or something like that.

friction came in to being because they look different. they were much more refined. their english was much better. we got to a point where our senior officers felt that maybe the regiment should be disbanded, because we couldn't get together. however, one of the gimmicks, i call it a gimmick because they had social hours and discuss groups. they sent invitations to us, ten per company, by coincidence, all hawaii people. when i saw camp roar, i was shocked. it was obvious with machine gun

towers and bay on net rifles that this was a concentration camp. >> how did the government justify that? >> in wartime, if you study his story of war, oftentimes hysteria takes over, especially with the sudden attack on pearl harbor and pictures of buck-tooth women and men, slant eyes and such. so they put us all in that one category. i am happy to say when the war was over, the regiment i served with was the most decorated in the history of the united states and for that size, the largest casualties. there were 22 medals of honor, which is much more than most of the divisions, and just

recently, the congress of the united states together with the president issued the gold medal. >> matthew shimura, what do you make of how the government has reacted to that part of our history since then and the actions that have been taken? >> do you think enough has been done to make up for that part of our history? >> i think even though the government made a mistake back then, they have done a lot to make things right, especially the clinton administration in 1998 as well as the $20,000 given to each japanese-american family during the period. so i think that the government has tried to make things right. >> matthew shimura, do you plan to keep studying this issue? what do you think? >> i want to continue studying this issue, especially in hawaii. because there were some

japanese-american internment camps that weren't very widespread talked about. i would like to do a follow-up story on that. >> this isn't the first time you have been part of the student cam contest. for those who have never participated and may want to next year, what's your advice for getting involved? >> well, my advice to students trying to make a documentary is choose a topic that you are really interested in and you feel passionate about and then do research about that, write a script and story on it. really, try and get your message across and what your perspective is on the topic. >> you are the grand prize winner. that comes with a good sum of money. how much did you win? what do you plan to do with it? >> i won $5,000 for myself and $1,000 for my school. i hope to save it for college. >> where do you want to go to college? >> i want to go to college on

the east coast, maybe film school so i can study to become a better documentary filmmaker. >> matthew shimura, thank you for joining us from hawaii. >> senator, thank you for your time. we very much appreciate it. born in a north korean work camp, it is the only chin had ever known, also, the only one to have ever escaped from camp 14. >> his first memory at the age of around 4 was going with his mom to a place near where he grew up in the camp to watch somebody get shot. shootings, public executions in the camp were held every few weeks. they were a way of punishing people and terrorizing the people that lived in the camp to