>> we should mention looking at lori firestone that we were so lucky with staff. lori worked for me for 12 years. she worked for me but really she worked for george bush because he would bypass the chief of staff. isn't that right? he would say, lori, we are having 40 for dinner tonight for a movie. can it just be informal? and -- she would arrange it. she did wonderful things. but also, susan porter rose. the staff, carol powers, they were just fabulous. so i had them for 12 years. only lost one who got a better salary. but i hear from her. but -- they are still with us. >> some people have said that marriages get even stronger because you actually see the guy more than you might -- especially in the days when they are campaigning and gone. and then a lot of first family marriages have been stronger than other times. do you think that's so?

>> well, i think, just the whole family really gets so close together. you always have an opponent in politics. so -- doesn't have to be your husband. >> i like you anyway. >> so do i. >> no. i think that there's something about politics when the world isn't against your husband, you think, at times for children. our grandchildren, 17 plus four, are very close. i think it is because of politics. >> i can imagine. >> they are very close. very loving. i will say to pierce, oh, i haven't heard from marshall for a while. oh, i just talked to her yesterday. or they get the iphone which is >> evident leap you can talk forever for free. incidentally, marshall has just asked me to sign a picture for

cane corso dog breeder. it is a dog about so big that can eat you up. it killed a woman. she's getting one. i signed it, but i didn't want to. >> what do you miss the most about the white house? >> i always say the chef. >> understandably. >> just like barb said, we miss all the people we work with. we see some still a lot. it is great to see susan and for everybody that has come for this, first lady's conference. it's really the people. people that work with there, butlers and ushers and all the people you live with every single day. you miss the most. all the people that work for george in the west wing. >> i have moved 27 different times. and i have learned -- i don't miss anything. i loved them all. but my life is perfect as it is. >> that is so healthy. >> nobody ever said i was unhealthy.

i really think you can't miss -- although, she's the chef was nice. but -- you just go on to other things. we have been so lucky. all the bushs have been lucky. life has been -- i mean, these libraries and these -- whatever center you call your thing, anyway -- i know it's not a library. the people all come back. it is just -- we are very lucky. and we know it. and there are people who are hungry and people that are homeless. people that can't read. and, you know if you know somebody who is lonely, go see them. i mean, there's just a lot of things we can do because -- we can read. we are certainly well fed. we have lots of people we love. i love my in-laws. i have two here. perfect.

i mean, look at them. we're lucky. >> you know, i think nothing could say better when you ask the question would people run for public office. the experience of both of you and your family and the dignity with which you carry both the offices and the time afterward suggests that it may be a tough vocation but it may be one of the best vocations in the world. politics still is and has to be one of the most honorable vocations there are. we have got to reach a time of in this country again when our best people will be able to know what you two experienced. i mean, i know from reading your memoirs and from listening to you today, however difficult there may have been moments in time, everything was overshadowed by making a difference, by the excitement of being there, and the love of the families being together during it. i am so glad to have been able to share this with you. and you are both very much alive. >> thank you so much. >> thank you for having us. >> thank you to everybody. thank you so much. thank you.

>> each weekend on american history tv on cspan 3. learn more about the presidents their policies and legacy throughs historic speeches and discussions with historians. this sunday, 8:30 a.m. and 7:30 p.m. and 10:30 p.m., a look at the presidency and civil rights, through fdr, truman and eisenhower administrations. for more about programming, schedules and online video vi t visit -- cspan.org/history. i seem to have earned a certain place where people will listen to me and i have always cared about the country. and "the greatest generation" writing that book gave me a kind of a platform that was completely unanticipated. so i thought i ought not to squander that. so i ought to step up as a, not just as a citizen and

journalist, but as the a father, a husband, and a grandfather. and if i see these things i ought to write about them and fry try to start this dialogue which i am trying to do with this book about where we need to get to next. >> unhtom brokaw urges americano redefine the american dream. and sunday, live, indepth your questions for the former anchor and managing editor of "nbc nightly news." he has the writ any bout the greatest generation, the 1960s and today. indepth, sunday at noon eastern on cspan 2s, book-tv. social secretaries for former first ladies discuss their time in the white house and the impact their positions have played on setting the tone of the presidential administrations. all three worked in a war time white house. whether it was organizing a barbecue for lady bird johnson or exercising their diplomatic skills at state dinners. the secretaries were the right hands of their first ladies.

this one-hour discussion was part of the george w. bush presidential center's conference of first ladies. he served as director of the ol presidential libraries. so he has presidential library experience. in 2003 he was apointed the founding director of the abraham lincoln presidential library in springfield, illinois. he is an author. he is a commentator on cspan, pbs, and working on a biography of nelson rockefeller. on our panel today is, bess able, bess as president johnson said, a kentucky girl who can walk with kings and prime

ministers. she was -- five years white house social secretary, ms. abell organized dinners for kings, prime ministers, planned two white house weddings, advanced presidential trips from manhattan to manila. she designed and carried out to the last detail events as different, an lbj ranch barbecue, state dinners in bangkok, and a white house country fairs and arts festivals. also on our panel is katherine s. fenton. current director of the governors residence in prist princeton, new jersey, and serves as director of the first lady's staff. she is a former special assistant to presidents and social secretary for the first administration of president and mrs. george w. bush where he planned and implemented all entertaining within the white

house complex. then lastly, laurie firestone who is a california native. she served as white house social secretary to george h.w. bush, first lady barbara bush for eight years, at the vice president's residence. and four years at the white house. her duties included planning and executing state dinners, luncheons, receptions at the white house and abroad. i know you are going to joenjoy this conference or this panel. thank you. >> this is like a sporting event. >> good morning, everyone. you're in for a treat. we have about half a century of white house history represented here. one of the things that defines the white house social secretary, first of all, it's a job that i think is -- is

redefined in some ways with every occupant and with every first lady, but one thing that persists is that a social secretary has a unique relationship and perspective on their first ladies. i recently had the opportunity, thanks to the goodness of the white house historical association, to do an oral history project, interviewing all 14 surviving white house social secretaries, and i'll never forget talking to lucy winchester who held the job for pat nixon. and who would have known that pat nixon had a delicious sense of humor. the first couple of months of the nixon presidency, the president and his staff had just come back from europe, the first

overseas trip, and apparently there were what lucy characterized as a couple of evil individuals in the west wing who thought it was the height of sophistication to return from paris with a large blowup doll. female doll for purposes we'll leave to their imagination. in anywhere event, word got back to the first lady who for some reason thought it would be appropriate to requisition the doll. she and lucy send it to the white house carpentry shop to be blown up. turned out the daughters of the american revolution were coming to the white house the next day, and president nixon, not knowing what was going on, had run into the secretary general of the der and said oh, listen, why don't you come early. you can come upstairs to the second floor. we'll show you around the private quarters. so cut to the picture of mrs. nixon and her social secretary getting off the elevator on the second floor, walking down the hall striding with the blowup doll between

them trying to find the best place to -- to put it. they finally decided that the queen's room would be ideal, and it was stashed in the bathtub, and they left, and -- and that's the end of the story. we don't know -- we don't know what happened, but needless to say, that's the kind of history you don't read in the textbooks. and every one of these women, i'm not sure they have stories about blowup dolls, but they certainly do have uniquely personal history. bess abell, can you tell us something about lady bird johnson that's surprising or unknown as pat nixon's sense of humor. >> well, i don't want to -- i want to answer a different question. because you heard them talk about how mrs. johnson came into the white house.

well, it wasn't like when anybody else came into the white house. the president had been shot in the johnson's home state, and mrs. johnson said the world looks at the living and wishes for the dead, so it was an awful time for them to come into the white house. and it was some weeks before they did move into the white house, and mrs. johnson was continually asked and her press secretary, liz carpenter, was just asked repeatedly when are the johnsons moving into the white house. and finally mrs. johnson had had that up to here, and she said heaven that i could help mrs. kennedy's comfort, but at least i can help her

convenience, so after that the questions stopped. but -- mrs. johnson was just an adventurist. when you -- when you came in to see her, she always wanted to know what you were doing. what was new with you, what was the latest. and when she traveled, she always had these had these little spiral notebooks like this, and she kept them in her purse with a ballpoint pen, and she would keep notes about where she was going and what she was seeing. and she took shorthand, and fortunately i read shorthand, not as neatly as she did, so i could read some of the notes that she had.

but she -- we had flown -- when lbj was vice president, we had flown from the u.s. to the mediterranean, had flown the length of the mediterranean and landed in beirut and had just walked into the hotel room, which was supposed to be a rest stop before they went to iran and turkey and italy and lebanon, of course. and mrs. johnson's on the phone, so i come into the room. she said can you get a car and let's go to bombeck. i said what's bombeck. i said i thought this was supposed to be a rest stop, and she said i may never get here again. it was very short order, and we were in the car going up over

the lebanon mountains past big stacks, men with big stacks of this wonderful flat bread on their head going through the olive groves and the orchards into bombeck where you saw civilization, upon civilization, upon civilization, and so i'm so grateful for her for bringing me along for the great adventure but also for taking me to bombay. >> now you brought up the circumstances surrounding the beginning of the johnson presidency. i'll give you an opportunity to respond. recently i came across a -- an oral history with a member of the marine band. he was a violinist, russian violinist, great artist, who complained that at the first tea of the johnson presidency, actually i think he said it was

upstairs, anyway, they were performing, and you came up and said what the hell are you playing? >> i never would have said something -- never, never, never. >> and -- >> and -- i'm just giving you the opportunity. the -- the violinist said mozart, and you allegedly said, well, knock it off. >> he wants show tunes. >> "the yellow rose of texas." oh, no, no, no. i don't know whether mrs. bush was given yellow roses from country to country and state to state, but i think mrs. johnson would -- every time she went some place and somebody would play "the yellow rose of texas" and give her a big bouquet of yellow roses, they thought they were so clever to have thought of it, and -- and -- and she

would -- she was -- she was very, very polite, but she said if there's ever an opportunity for people to give me a bouquet of wildflowers that would be really nice, or to play something else, even "the eyes of texas." >> it's like the story of harry truman at the beginning of the nixon presidency, nixon wanted to let bygones be bygones, so he donated the white house piano to the truman library and went out to independence to make the presentation at the truman library. he sat down, grandly began to play "the missouri waltz." but it turns out harry truman hated "the missouri waltz." had always hated "the missouri waltz," and mrs. truman said the only good thing was by then he was so deaf he couldn't hear what the president was playing. laurie firestone, you were there for the entire first bush presidency. those were eventful years, significant years in the history

of the white house and the country. tell us something about barbara bush that maybe we don't know. >> well, you know, i think barbara, everybody knows her because i think she was so open, and, you know, yes, there may be a cute little story or something that hasn't been written, but i think she had a very unique ability to really be a very warm and friendly, and she was everybody's friend. and so i remember back in the days at the vice president's, and, you know, television was becoming more and more important, and, of course, the first ladies aren't on it often, but often vice president bush would be on it, but people would come to the house, and i would always greet them and say good-bye to them. and they were like i just had no

idea. they were so warm and they were so friendly and so humorous, and oh, we love them. i just didn't know this about them at all, and i think sometimes that isn't always shown on television or, you know, you can read it, but you can't -- but there's nothing like actually being there, and -- but back to barbara, i think she was all of that, and she was always interested in everybody. and -- >> how did she communicate her priorities through your work? because, again, i -- my sense is that this is a job that is redefined in some ways, not only by each person who holds it but above all by each first lady. >> well, i always think that i was very lucky being eight years at the vice president so i

certainly knew what she liked, and so she -- even there, she was never a micro manager. i mean, she trusted her staff, and she believed in them. she said we knew what she wanted. she was consulted all the time, but then she wasn't there every second, did you do it, you know? are you sure it's okay? i mean, she believed in us, and we did it. >> we know that the first president bush was no fan of broccoli. you averted an international incident involving the president of mexico. could you describe the diplomatic function of the social secretary. >> i think this story, not only have i told it, but it -- i think it's actually in mrs. bush's book as well, but the president of salinas -- president salinas came for a state dinner, and many of you

may remember he was a harvard graduate. it was a period of time when they were trying to show that mexico was getting very sophisticated, more well developed, and so that evening -- >> roland. >> -- roland, thank you. roland. i've said his name. anyway, roland was the pastry chef, and he always did a beautiful job, and on the menu he said he was going to do a mexican fantasy, and because we were entertaining so often, we didn't have them do samples of every dessert that he was going to do, and we knew it was going to be beautiful. so that evening the desserts come up from the pastry kitchen into the pantry, and at that time they weren't individually

plated. they were on a tray, and so i went out to the pantry to look at the desserts, as i always did, and cathy was there with me, and, well, it was horrible. it was this disaster. what he had done was he had created a little adobe house out of marzipan, and inside that house was going to be fresh fruit and sorbets. that part was good, and around the adobe house was a little picket fence with flowers and everything. well, just the adobe house was bad, but then what he had done, which was the key, he had put a little sleeping mexican worker taking his siesta with a big sombrero, and so i -- i looked

at it. i said you can't -- we can't put this in and send this in, and he said -- and so roland being a frenchman. oh, no, you know, that's it. this is my dessert, and he stomped out, and i'm looking at cathy and, you know, there's a lot of agony going on there for a few minutes, and, of course, we had to make a decision rather quickly. so we found a bouquet of flowers, and as each tray went into the kitchen, we plucked off the little sleeping worker with his sombrero and tucked in a flower, and -- and sent it into the dining room which was not perfect, but i thought this is so great, a wonderful story about barbara bush, too, because usually when the desserts came to the table, she would make a big fanfare of saying how beautiful roland's dessert was and look at it, and -- and

wanted everybody to see it, and this time i saw her, and the platter came to her first, she looked at it. and she got it right away, and she picked up the spoon and hacked the adobe house that split open and hopefully the president never saw it, but it was -- we agreed after that we were not going to do any, you know, foods whether it was a main course or a dessert that were trying to be for the culture of the other country. it was going to be strictly american. >> cathy, you're in a unique position of having worked very closely with three first ladies. i won't put you in the awkward position of talking about your

most recent employer. tell us something about mrs. reagan, who as we all know had a kind of rough time at the start of it with the press in terms of the image that -- that they conjured up. how did she deal with that? >> well, i think -- >> how did you deal with that? >> well, i guess i was blessed i was number two during those days. i was the deputy to two of her social secretaries. so i think certainly i was aware of it. i was really in a support position too, tt the two social secretaries. within two months, mrs. reagan faced a horrible tragedy. her husband was shot which was terrible and i think that you go into a different mentality at that point. i mean, the white house, you have to deal with this potential tragedy. fortunately, he came out of it. he was recovered beautifully, but i think it changes everything in a very drastic way, and i think that mrs. reagan, being mrs. reagan,

she just had to know that things were right and i felt that that's how i eventually was able to anticipate how best to serve her through my two bosses was that, you know, she really did have a checklist. she really did pay attention to the details. and she really was there concerned about her husband primarily for her health. so i felt my role was to be as reassuring and on top of the details as possible. and i think that's, even the few times where, maybe my boss was traveling and i had to be in charge, i just always had that mind set. i had to have the checklist and reassure her so she wasn't too nervous, she wasn't too concerned. and then i always felt it was okay. i think, you know, the press, it's a feeding frenzy. and they -- they wanted to know how she was coping. and i think that people she was closest to, michael deever, jim

baker did their best to reassure her as well every day. >> now, all of you of course have had to deal with the unexpected, with tragedy -- invading the white house. cathy, you were there on 9/11. what do you remember of that day? >> well, i always -- i'm always big on a setting. we had an incredible several weeks. first of all, the one few blessings of the horrific day, we had beautiful weather. and ultimately, both in new york and in washington. that helped the relief workers and emergency workers. at least it wasn't horrible weather, but we had had a string of events. we had our first state dinner. president and mrs. bush for the president of mexico was september 5th, vicente fox, and, again, we had beautiful weather. the dinner went flawlessly. i think the bushes were happy. it was a beautiful occasion, and

then on 9/11 we had our next big event for the administration, as far as entertaining and we had scheduled the annual congressional barbecue. very often it could be in june or september. we picked september for a new administration which gave us more time, and that's a big deal, you know, as bess will say going back to lbj and before to have the u.s. congress to the white house in a casual setting, very often with their families. we would have entertainment, a form of barbecue. the bushes had wanted tom perini, who was their good friend who had entertained for them in texas and he was there, and a lot of logistics and a lot of elaborate setup. we had over 150 picnic tables on the south lawn. we had all of tom's chuck wagon. all the cooking had been going on. the white house chefs were cooking and supporting tom for days. i came in -- i woke up that morning -- i said how can we be blessed with this magnificent weather. we have a barbecue. i get into work, and ironically i ha