conduct business with a guy who has a problem with listening if what you're able to do is find that moment where he listens. as opposed to a woman who may have a problem with the leadership and the cultural distinction of leading when she has a pull based on culture to be a bit more submissive. now, i don't think you can change either one of them. i do think that tolerance and commitment that you hold for that person to achieve can give you just as good of results as beating them over the head and threatening with being terminated. sometimes patience and commitment is all that it takes

to give rise to opportunity and to advancement. and sometimes there's just getting fired. it's okay. first black coach of the baseball was frank robinson and i think when frank robinson was chosen as a coach, one of tas executive sports casters said he'll be the first black manager fired. and of course he was.stute spor be the first black manager fired. and of course he was.astute spol be the first black manager fired. and of course he was. i think two or three times. so it's not bad to be a failure. sometimes it's a bigger opportunity. so here's what i say in closing. the women who have any interests in the work i do, in communication, i offer you a

challenge. 80% some of all products and services in the world are bought by women, decision makers, to some degree. and maybe 6% of the creative population who make those ads, the creates difference direive advertising agencies around the world, are women. how does a woman become a creative director? di, you're a creative director. that's as simple as it is. it's an advancement in perception. and the men are the ones who are able to do it. so having men be more involved in advancement is the key to diversity on all fronts. wouldn't it be great if we had two token white guys on this panel who ran corporations who felt the same way. maybe not. maybe this is the way it should be.

but for the interests of time, i'll consider it. that's it for that. [ applause ] >> i told him i hate that had because he just said it because it's his life and you can't actually say it better than people who do it because it's what they do so to speak. and i want to actually say something more about that because what we're missing right now, we have very ambitious and talented women, but holding men accountable is scary to people. they don't want to blame men. they think to hold men accountable is to blame men, so we need male allies who say men can do this and that's great. and i thank diana for calling attention to the fact that we needed to have men in this room. she actually does say it like it

is which is very good. and we do need to have men in there are room. thank you for the men that are here. i actually hate to thank the men that are here, but in this case, okay. i just hate it. but i'm glad you're here. and i want to appreciate donna for lots of things. i share with and you career in entrepreneurship and getting women in diversity, et cetera. but i appreciate that you talked about the brain because i think one of the things that i've been looking at a great deal is the fact that i've been working on this issue of women's leadership for a long time and i find how hard it is to go into companies and to talk to men because they immediately feel like you're against them. roo and react. but if you go in and start to talk about reduced engendered brains, and this is coming so we have to look at it, i'm always scared of gendered or anything

that's about -- it's in the brain, whoever. however, what i found that's very promising about all the new research is that the brains are so collaborative. male and female brains are so collaborative. working together gets and you much better thing. and i was telling my host the other day who brought me in who was here -- i'll give you this as a bonus because it's helped me so much. what we also find out historically is that male brains have learned to rest and women's brains never rest. and partly because of the history. i mean, as the anthropologist who taught me this said men were standing behind a tree trying to hit something with a rock for a long time, so they had to rest. and women were always in the -- working around the area. and therefore they just never rested. and it's so helpful to my relationship with men because i've spent years asking men what they're thinking. and they always say nothing.

and i always say -- and i have lost relationships by saying i know you're thinking something and they say, no, i'm not. and then i say you don't want to tell me what you're thinking. and then they say, well, i -- so anyway, it's helped me a great deal with my relationships. i've been working actually since leaving the foundation for 20 years, i got tired of women who had great ideas and were changing policy around work and changing the very things that we're dealing with in this country, we were funding them and they came up with living wage campaigns and they changed the things that helped men and women, family medical leave, amazing changes in pay having -- and in how work is done as has been said. but i got really tired of them not being in in the seats of power alongside men. so that we could change things permanently. because we keep putting women

into advocacy positions and so i started advocating differently. which is training women to run for office, training women in corporate america. and really looking at the media that doesn't show enough women in it leadership. you can't be what you can't see. and if women are not shown as leaders, they don't see them in corporate america and they don't see them. and men see them, and so they think it's normal for to be done. i work across race and gender and class because if you don't work across those three things, you don't get a great deal done either. what i've found, though, in this country is this is an auspicious time in the world and this country for women's leadership. a very auspicious time. what is needed is women. but you have to know the time you're in. and i'm afraid well not use it because there is so much push back and fear about women coming into power. and i'm thinking that we need to think about the business we're in. for instance, i could tell you all the stats because we've benchmarked women's leadership

for years and america does believe it's a fair country. it doesn't want to think that there are differences. i didn't realize that it there are so many people who think women are in leadership who don't know they're dropping out in mid level management like in every company in the country. and that it's not about child care. it's about the fact that they don't see opportunity and people at the top. and so they finally go and start a small business or do something this a allo that allows them to do things. but this is not an issue of fairness any more. this is an urgent issue because we need people who have different kinds of thinking at the table. or we're never going to get out of the barass that we're in. you have to watch the trends. and the railroad business, that was his families thing, the railroad business failed because it thought it was still in the transportation business. it didn't understand it was moving to the transportation business.

it didn't know that it had moved from the railroad business over. and we are not in the gender business anymore. we're in the transformation business. and so if we want to transform anything in this country, we have got to take on this issue of women's leadership. because i have a limited time, i'll just remind you -- maybe you have to hear these numbers one more time. we're only 15% of boards, only 13% -- 13% of boards have no women on them. only 16% of corporate officers. and only 3% of fortune 500 companies. in leadership in that way. we are the majority of education, of people getting degrees, but in every mba program across the world, across the world, the brightest and the best women and men have a differential of $4600 worth that they start at in terms of where they enter and they never catch up. and they never catch up. so we have got to start to do differently if we want to change

things. i want to focus again, because we can have lots of conversation and having trained -- it has to be a diverse group of women. i know diverse is not as great a term at we would like to be, but there has to be difference at the table. there has to be diverse women it at the table. because again it has to mirror the kind of changes that we need. and make it normal. i have thought as was said years ago to get numbers because numbers make it normal. and then you stop thinking about gender. i've done research on women running for office. one woman has got to always be man enough on the job and we report on our hair hemlines and husband. two women is a cat fight. three women messes the pretty up. they actually have to focus on their agenda. so we want to get enough women. it's a matter of numbers. get enough women so where he wiwe

can focus on agenda and not gender. finally, we have opportunity because of what started in europe.finally, we have opportu because of what started in europe. getting women on boards now. because boards have a lot of power and the executive group in offices -- in companies have a lot of power. so because there has been initiatives asking if quotas. and by the way, i don't leabeli quotas are bad. we don't get this on merit. we're not a merit to being crass city, i'm sorry. we put people in power who we know.to being crass city, i'm sorry. we put people in power who we know. therefore i just want to tell you that we have an opportunity thousand more men are putting women on boards and i've actually heard white men stand in front of audiences and say i love this, they're not as interested will being right as doing the right thing.

there is a campaigned called facebook because i want you to know young women started this and they are trying to get zuckerberg to actually put a woman on his board, two women maybe, three women. he has an all male board. and he's about to do this huge going public with no women on his board and he says he's a company that's about the values of society and fairness. so we have a campaign who are like go young women. and so you should go on facebook and actually ultraviolet will let you sign on to help us help mark do the right thing. thank you. [ applause ] >> i would like to ask the panelists if you have any comments, anything else you'd

like toed add on the discussion thus par. >> i had like to add australia had managed in our on that 200 companies to get above 10% of women on boards until they were told -- the quota target thing. they were told they would have to report so what they were doing to move to get more women on boards and they were warned if there wasn't a significant change, then it would be mandated. the interesting thing was having spent the last five years saying we can't find suitably qualified women, in the first year of this threat, 25% of the new board positions went to women. so it's about forcing people into an uncomfortable place. so that instead of looking for

the person who looks like them, they actually go looking and say this is going to be really embarrassing if my plan shows what my numbers look like. and all of a sudden they can find people with skill sets. amazing. >> well, i'm going to beg to differ with diane just a little bit. i see that perceptions are at the heart of the exclusion of women and minorities in businessboabusiness boards and such. i've been on a lot of boards and i haven't really met a truly twisted nongod-fearing man who is somehow conspiring to hold women down.

i think it's a lot more simpler. i think that sometimes men are thoughtless and prefer it that way because it given gives them a chance to hold on to power, pir excepti perceptions. so i offer the possibility that treating each one differently, encounters that don't necessarily start off as force, could produce bigger results. it all depends on the guy you're talking to. the force thing i think just kind of puts you back in this exclusion area cycle. >> we haven't forced it them yet. we're just -- >> she just said force. >> no, i said i'm assume difference of that if we don't see a change, but what we've mandated is is that they must report on it.on't see a change, we've mandated is is that they must report on it. until that time, 67% of board

positions were handed out to friends of the guys on the board. answer somehow you have to get change and that will be uncomfortab uncomfortable. >> i think that's the question. somehow you have to get change. when i hear force, i hear a kind of control that i wouldn't want. no matter who i was. white guy, black guy, white female. so there's other ways to produce the result. and the inquiry should be to finding what those ways are. pressure, different than force, and certainly interacting with men in a way where you're their equal is preferable spot i think. >> how long do you think we've been doing that? we've been doing that. sx >> it's multigenerational. it's not over. it's just happening. >> but you said about the civil rights movement? >> whatever the civil rights

movement is, it certainly is an example of the success of force. it's a success of legislation. >> i would sponsor legislation tomorrow to get 30% of women on the board. >> i would, too, but it wouldn't be forbes ced. >> asking them to report on it is not force. what i'm saying is that there isn't a change, they're aware that there will be targets. like norway, like sweden where they have made significant difference. see, we're going for the whole time. you better take -- >> it's okay. >> it's all right. >> how we can open it up if anyone has any questions. and we can start right over here. >> so if the population of women

that is in the realm of consideration for boards is so small, what can we do -- i mean, as you mentioned, the number of ceos and the number of women that are in these areas in the visibility of the men that are creating these board, how do we create more visibility of the highly qualified population that we know exists and push women into the arena that makes them viable candidates and desirabe candidates for these boards? >> we're doing that, australia -- in term of the champions program, most states that i'm working in, we're lifting up women who are visible or who have those qualifications. we're taking responsibility for

actually finding the women ourselves and putting them in front of people. we're working across the states, sometimes we're working about in the women's forum. actually for the facebook campaign, there are 27 women so far that they found that could be on the board of facebook because of what's needed and who are the people on there. i think -- i guess i wanted to say i believe in quotas because we have tried about 1,000 other ways and the women while you are right, they're not as many women who have been in that executive suite that makes them available, but there are enough women who have enough competencies and enough misser to and you don't just have to come from the executive suite to be there this for us to go and say that could you have actually a third women on your board without stretching what you need. it's not about taking people who don't have the qualifications, but we have those women. >> there are a lot of qualified women that may not have made that executive level that

creates the visibility. >> they're not as visible, but there are people that have the qualifications. >> one of the things we do is encourage women thin things tha aren't natural things for a fabulous job on that project, could you use the two worlds thank you? rather than say, i had a fabulous team, or, it was knob, or something else? just say thank you, i enjoyed the challenge and i had a great team. could you make sure that at least five other people you work with know where your career, not just women, mainly men, in fact, 4 to 1, because that's where it is up there, know what you would like the direction your career to go in. because, if you don't let that be known, and it shouldn't have to be known, but we do know in australia that a woman, i say, one, two, three, the engagement ring is strike one. the wedding ring is strike two.

and pregnancy is strike three. therefore, they know that your brain is going to atrophy and you're not going to be useful at anything. and most of our men in senior positions in australia have women who are at home, with the family, or who have gone into part time work that doesn't necessarily take full use of their skills. so, at this stage, women have to be able to arctic late where they want to go. and that's what explore is all about. taking the women and ensuring that they can become visible. if they are not coming through in senior management, we're not going to address the board thing. >> i think we're in the same place around board representation as i was mentioning before, around access to capital issues. we still live in a world that pretends that the best and the brightest, the biggest, smarty pants people on the planet, are middle class white boys.

it's still where we are. and so when i'm recruiting board members, there is an abundance of talented women. there is an abundance of indigenous women that offer incredible resources to my company. because i'm not just looking for a particular thin slice of qualifications. i'm not just looking for people who have made a lot of money. we do have, you know, a really talented middle age, middle class white guy former cfo who knows lots about how to chase a single bottom line heart. and he's on the board. but he's one of a group of collective people that are contributing to build a business that is more than just the pursuit of quarterly profit down one single track, which is what men's brains are so darn good at. i appreciate that he carries that intelligence into the mix, but it's not the only form of

intelligence. so, we're back to the stranded asset, stranded talent, wasted people, all over the world. and we have to learn to see those other aptitudes in ourselves and in other people and in people whose pigment is really different. >> i just want to build on that, because i love this. i mentioned this in a couple of panels, but warren buffett looked at the women there, said, most powerful women summit, said, i had two sisters and they both were smarter than me. and one of them's here. and he said, they both actually had the same amount of love from the family as me, but they didn't have the same opportunity. and he said, america eelgs gotten some place, but do you imagine where america would have gotten if we used all of our resources, including the resources of women? and i mean, i think when the richest, most successful man in america is willing to say that, that other men, actually, could say it, too. [ applause ]

>> okay, it looks like we have a question right over here? >> yeah, hi. very great discussion, but i'm looking at also going back to childhood and onward. do you think there's sufficient focus on that aspect of bringing more women into, i mean, into the business workplace and places of boards and stuff, do you think there's enough attention on that and, if not, what would your recommendation lgs be? >> in childhood? >> from childhood on, i mean, you're talking about now, but you know, thinking ahead, to the next generation, the next generation -- >> i find it a fascinating field where there's been quite a bit of study. my brother was pre-war, i was post-war and my father didn't see my brother until he was 5 years old.

i am my father's daughter. i never really bonded strongly with my mother. i loved her very dearly. but it was my father who made a difference in that way. and he came from a view that women and men should have expectly the same opportunity. there has been significant research that many successful women have had fathers like that. and the other thing that has shown up, in australia, we have a lot of people in single sex schools, probably up to 25% to 30%. and when i look down at successful women in so many different areas, nicole kidman went to the same school i did, which was a single sex selective girls school. so, somebody has to take the leadership positions in that environment. so, there is a whole string of people from my school, who, i didn't know, of course, but have

turned up being successful in so many different areas, it's amazing. so, i don't know, and -- but there's certainly some research along those lines. >> i think you have to actually look at two things. the film misrepresentation. if you haven't shown it here, it should be shown here, because it spokes the representation of women to girls and has the most amazingly articulate girls on that film about what it does to the spirit, what it does to their ambition, what it does to their sense of whether they can be powerful. i would look at that film. and you have to begin where girls are and that's been scary. for me, i've gob to mattel to get them to make a white house president barbie and then a white house computer engineer barbie. because, actually, e know it is good to have misren sensation but it is good for girls to pick up a doll that they dress and she's a computer engineer. you have to use different things

to get to young girls. i've done it with take our daughters, i've written books about girls and et cetera. but what i think is important for us to think about here is the more powerful women get and we have gotten more powerful, even though we're not in the seats of power, the ms. push back there has been and the more the clothes look like little girls that women wear, the more little girls are told about princess -- i have 11 grandchildren and the little girls wear princess dresses and they are really tough little girls but they want a princess dress. we put them on the swings and have them get their dresses torn. but they wear these -- there is a push-back toward girls being girls. and so that's because there's a fear of, i think, what's going on. so, we have to know that and help get it through. >> and there seems to be an opportunity in the mothering of b boys that, if you see the

success of fathers mentoring their daughters, mothers having a different approach on their sons. and, i certainly, not being a mother, couldn't say what that is, but that would be something extraordinary to take a look at, given the other part of this formula, is always that the masculine energy in how it seems to sue pres suppress the opportf women. >> to teach a girl to be tough goes toward the power. to teach a boy to be more feminine, to be more thoughtful, et cetera, goes toward the fear of homosexuality in this country. and so mothers have tried very hard, i think, to -- i'm sorry, you got me on a -- >> it's not necessarily the same tactics moving forward will solve a dilemma. if it didn't work with mothers treating the sons a certain way

because of this taboo of femininity of a son, there are other role models, i'm sure, that have done things with their sons that produce some remarkable sons that could be replicated. so, the looking at the developmental phase, which is important, should include how to handle sons. >> i completely agree. >> neither of my sons are homosexual and when my youngest son, who spent 10 years in the army, found out he was having a girl, he said, she sure will know how to throw a ball. and he is a devoted, involved, loving father and i have great, you know, i feel really positive that the girls growing up in both of my son's families will have a fabulous supportive male role model at home. and that makes me extremely proud. >> wl,