actually have sons like that, i'm just saying, there's a taboo, not you are raising sons to have sexual orientation differently. and i've had success, my son is the best mother i ever saw, actually. and i tell him so every day. but my sons are good mothers. but i also -- i mean, i feel that mothers try very hard with their sons, but the society is a very hard one. that's all. >> beside that, i'm fighting with jo today. >> you're not fighting with me. >> maybe we have some -- >> this is good. >> we have questions up here in the balcony, in the very back? >> yes, i have a question related to what diana was discussing about how women are socialized in a strategy to project modesty, in response to compliments. i was reading a book called "gender speak" wand it talked about how women tend to use subordinate language.

as we see positions of leadership in our professions, how can we avoid using subordinate language without feeling that we have to emulate masculine gender role identity? >> there's a wonderful article by barbara annis -- >> yeah. >> thank you. about how women introduce ideas around table. they say, maybe we should consider, or another option might be, so, we're inclined to use a lot of worlds that have doubt attached to them? and they're read by alpha males or females as showing your incompetence or lack of thought. it is really worthwhile, practicing some of those thins.s saying things like, i don't believe we can move forward until we have considered so and so. you can still sound authentic, you don't have to thumb the table and say, we're not going to do anything until we've done this. but there are ways to change the

way you enter a conversation that change the way you are perceived. and i've also had young women who said they never heard in meetings, who i've said, just sit forward. just sit up, sit forward and talk the space you own. how many other people fight on their planes with the person next to them? >> sure. >> any man who takes the arm of my airplane, the instabt he moves his elbow, i will be there. it's a statement of space. and we need to learn some things -- do i think we should have to learn them? no, i don't. but until we get the change we'd like to see in our culture, then, i'm sorry, women from the age of, kind of 20 to 50 are going to have to learn some of those tricks so they are seen and taken seriously. >> and then right back here? >> i'm in the generation where,

in the late 60s and early 70s, we used demonstrations to shut down universities and get our message heard, which helped stop a war. now women, we have numbers, education and we have money and so, if we really want someone, a female representation on the board for apple, i would suggest one of the best ways to do that is to use our buying power and ols o also our not buying power. stop buying apple products. get organized about it. and there will be a woman on that board in a short time -- >> did you mean google? >> i'm sorry, i said apple, i mean facebook. i apologize -- >> keep buying your apple products, please. >> and your google products. >> they need to know what you're planning to do before you do it and then you need to do it.

>> i -- sorry. >> no, that was it. >> we're telling them what we're doing and then we're going to do it. facebook is hard. they could girlcott facebook, that is probably true. there are other ways to do it. but you are right, product is a very good way to demonstrate. >> all right, right over here? just wait for the -- >> okay. as a female student in a male-dominated field of film, i was curious about your experiences, for jo, i can't think of the it radio word, but fields that you've never been comfortable working in, does that make sense? >> it's complicated. >> yeah. >> that was just your experience. what advice do you give to women who are in very tough fields, like male-dominated fields or

just tough fields? >> i started in film so i know what you're talking about, and i also -- i spent ten years developing grass roots mechanisms to develop tax policy, things like carbon tax, i worked on that until it was implemented and then i was done doing taxes. but i spent a decade being almost always the only woman, when i was lobbying government officials. there would be a room of 15 people, playing with policy, talking about the horse trading stuff that happens in policy conversations, and there would be me and a woman taking notes. and i had cabinet ministers that i would invite to meetings and in those days i worked at home and i nursed my son until he was 4 years old and one of my tests for working with politicians, i invited them to my house and nursed my son. it became my acid test on if i really wanted to do work with people or not. and it changed people's

perspective. it really did. so, i think we have to do it, we have to show up, we have to go through the discomfort of being the only woman at the table, the only woman in the room, until it's not the case. >> someone once said to me, at least they'll know you've arrived. and make that arrival count. >> okay. so, right here? >> you've been talking about some of the behaviors that women need to adopt in order to get up to the table and to be recognized. on the other hand, you've talked about getting these male champions of change. and for women, we have a very clear incentive for wanting to change our behaviors. and i'm curious, what are some of the incentives for these men to actually change? because if i think about drivers of change, it is often an opportunity or it's a threat. and i just would like to hear,

what is your perspective on what those drivers and inessential tichs would be for the men we seek out as these advocates of change? >> we have a talent shortage in australia. our unemployment rate is under 5%. and that is driving people to think a little differently. until, i think it's five years ago, we had no train drivers who were females in new south wales. and it all came back that they used to have to jump out the trains and change the points and it really was physical. now they have to press buttons. all of a sudden, it changed. we have very large companies in the mining industry that now say they'd rather have women driving their big trucks, because they drive them more carefully, they have less accidents, they have better cared for. so, there are things that start people thinking differently. and we need to promote those

things. but for men in australia, it's about, how are you going to get the talent? if they all leave you after five years in your organization, what are you going to do? you know? how many people are we going to bring into australia as immigra immigrants, who may or may not be qualified. and we've got all these women who are qualified. it is not rocket science. find a way to incorporate the women in our organizations. it does take a little while to get the message through. >> in the states, one of the things that's happening is sponsorship. what has happened, women are leaving in their mid 30s, at enormous levels and every company in america really is trying to figure out why their women are leaving. when the women leave, they say, i'm leaving to take care of my children, but usually it's not that. they start a small business, they go some place else. and so, they are actually desperate to keep their women, because they're not moving women up. so, there is an incentive for the companies.

but what they have found is, women will tell you they are mentored to delt, but they're not sponsored. some of the best companies are starting sponsorship programs, which is different, in that somebody's advocating for you when you're not in the room, pushing you up the ladder and those programs seem to be working. and what's also working, as women get in there, there's so much research now that it is over the top. around the difference women make and about how women are now at least as good as or better than men on every aspect of leadership that keeps coming out in the "harvard business review" et cetera. it's moving. it's just slow. >> i can say that in business, when the discussion becomes about affirmatively providing women opportunity, that there's a certain surge of interest that women have for the conversation,

obviously, but men tend to wither under some kind of light that appears negative. they get quiet, they don't fesly approach the subject matter as making a difference in it. and the very few who do have, i think, an extraordinary ability to be different. to actually recognize that their deviance from the norm. and there's an advantage to that. and there's also a disadvantage. so, right now, it's to no one's surprise, it hasn't flipped where that advantage business case advantage and advantage in terms of personal career, has moved to a level where most men want to do that. but it's important to recognize that there is a withering. i've seen it happen in speeching that i've done, where women have gotten excited about the opportunity and the men have gone the other way and sort of

slithered out of the room. so, whatever that is, that's got to be addressed. i'm not sure exactly what it is, the drivers, but it's a great question. >> if we could give all senior businessmen a 25-year-old woman daughter -- >> yes. >> that really changes the agenda -- >> absolutely. >> because suddenly they become furious about what happens in the workplace. i don't quite know how you manage that. >> it's true. it's actually true. >> right down here in the third row? >> my biggest challenge is when i bill for a service and i'm growing my service or i'm helping someone even more and more, how to address to them that the rate needs to increase and how, in your personal experience, how have you addressed pay inkreelss?

>> it's a really key question, and your question has a bunch of different dimensions, i think. so, i grew up with a working class background, nobody was in business in my family, business people were, you know, negative. there was -- i got no training in business through my entire education, because my university career was in the arts. so, there's something,er thin i really essential about teaching everyone, but particularly te h teaching women, basic business economics and finance and how to own our numbers. one of the big phenomenons that's talked about a lot in progressive business communities, whether it is spn or b-corporations, is that there's something about women often that shrinks from the money. that shrinks from the numbers, that shrinks from finance. and we have to talkle that. and there are mentors out there to really help women.

really get good at the numbers side of business, because it is an essential piece. you don't get to bring your values forward and you don't get to do the transformative work of reinventing the world in business, if you don't make the numbers work. but if there's an energetic thing to owning numbers, right, you have to learn how to get the energy present, when you say, i need to charge more and here's why, right? because we shrink from that. and i think that is half of the equation, when i was introducing the notion that women aren't getting capitalized and financed. so, let's just say 50% of the problem is the majority of people making the decisions about money are men and it's more comfortable for them to give it to other men, because that's where their comfort is. but let's take responsibility for the other 50% and let's us get good at it. let's get good at asking for money and recognizing our value and putting it forward and then

let's teach other women how to do that, because it's the only way it's going to change. [ applause ] >> one of the ways that i find helps me authentically is to talk about, i'm going to need to change my fees as of such and such a day, due to the increase in this, this and this. so, it's not like a today tomorrow, it might be three months out. and that helps me feel strong about doing it. because i found out at one stage, i was paid -- about 60% of what a man in an equivalent position would be paid. that made me so mad, i did something about it, but women start off on their first job, you know, they walk in, we're going to offer you $40,000, whatever the money is and they say, thank you, that's great. and when they offer the same money to the man, he says, oh, i

was hoping for a bit more than that and what are the other things around that that make up the package? so, what happens in australia, we know the first year in the workplace, the women get paid significantly less and as most increases in corporations are done by percentage, that just grows. but i agree exactly with donna. you can't back off from it. and you've got to find ways about talking about money. and there are lots of good ideas on google, you know, google it, and, you know, it's a matter of saying, this matters to me, they are undervaluing the services that i offer. get mad. >> actually -- >> can i say something, like a man, please? the lesson to learn from my perspective, because i don't get the conversation, really, because honestly, it's your service and he's your customer

or she, it's your job to prepare in whatever way you need to prepare, to get the money you need to do what you need to do and there isn't any other way to get it except ask for it. unless you're not good at it. then if you're not good at it, just fail a few times. ask for it badly. i don't know if you'll be fired because you've asked for money badly. i think you might even be instructed. so, the last thing i'll say about it, there are training courses. i hate the digital world now because the face-to-face stuff suspect quite as accessible. but there are training courses. i did one years ago, the ibm sales training course and all executives, actually, junior executives went -- you had to work at ibm, to take this course, because it taught you

negotiation. and it's just an art. and once you get the b buyer-seller role playing, it is easy to take yourself out of it and just ask for the money. >> i have to tell you the best story about, because linda babcock is one of the best negotiation trainers in the world. and the only difference about women and men in negotiating that she got so well is that if women negotiate tough, it doesn't have the same effect as if a man negotiate s tough. it's nice, because it changes your face, that when women negotiate tough, they have to be relentlessly pleasant. you know? and it's kind of a confidence thing and it's kind of a tough thing that doesn't hurt. and i just thought that was a marvelous thing that she teaches women. if you are going to be tough, just be relentlessly pleasant. >> let's see. how about oliver, in the front?

>> on the same subject as making these problems, thinking about them internally, like you've been saying, i -- and trying to make the change happen internally, how can -- what can a man do to basically work through some of these biases that we tend to have that we've grown up with, for so long. what are some techniques we can use, like, from a more masculine perspective, i guess, to -- what do you want to see us adjust? >> are you asking, with regardless getting employed or once you're there, what you might do to improve it or is it a little bit of both? >> it's with regards to seeing the changes, getting actually more women at the seat of the table, like, because we have these tendencies, you know, to just want to get on top, you know, and it's just a tendency

that you are brainwashed into, so, how do you -- what techniques can you use -- >> well, you can be a spy. you know, you can be an infill traitor. and it reminds me of this very light skinned african-american guy that used to work for me. and he went to get a job in the advertising business at a very senior level and not only did they offer him the position, but they gave him more money than he had ever gotten before in the offer and he came to me, because i was mentoring him at the time, and he said, jo, i think they think i'm white. so, should i tell them that i'm actually black? and i said, absolutely not. take the money. and then once you're in position, you can do the things that you can do once you're inside. so, use the ability to play on

some of the weaknesses, i mean, you could cult your hair a certain way and look a certain way. and then once you are in, you've got this ability to bring in women in the positions you want them in. i think it's great. it's part of what we're talking about. >> we have time for one more short question. so, right in the front here, this woman in the third row? >> i agree with what you guys said, woman sometimes have different perspective of the word. so, sometimes they can bring very awfully good products to the society. but in terms of offering a new public product to the society, always need some funding to get started. so, what kind of suggestion would you give in terms of attracting investments as well as, like, grants, in order to get everything started?

>> well, i think it's complicated. i think we're at this new edge and i'm really excited about the role of crowd source financing, as one of the tools for women, for people of color, for, you know, the disruptive business ideas. i think there is new ways for people's money, women's money, to flow into new businesses. and because it is new inf infrastructure, it hassen already -- it's not built out and it is not owned by a gender, it's not owned by one particular class or race. there is something highly democratic about the way crowd sourcing can deliver money to people that otherwise can't proto type, can't prove, can't get from idea to on the ground, because you can't get real money until you are on the ground, until you've built it and proved it and shown it and people can

kick at it and you've got sales coming in. the real money doesn't show up until you are there. and you've usually done $1 million in sales and you've been around for a couple of years and you have this client base. but getting from here to there -- i had no, sort of friends and family, to sort of invest when i started running businesses, it's just not where i came from. and so i've had to build relationships with people that could capitalize my projects. and then the company i've built right now, i sold my house to finance it. so, sometimes you also have to, as an entrup neuro, really get in, and be really risky and test your risk tolerance in order to really make it go, because investors are much more interested in you when you are skin in the game. in my case, i have vital organs and skin in the game. >> also, there's one other thing i want to add for you personally. work on the presentation. be brilliant at what you're

selling. watch "the shark tank" on television. be brilliant at it. and you'll get better and better. >> okay. on that great advice, we'll end the discussion. so, thank you so much, we're so grateful that you all could come today. thank you. here is the flat iron building going up in 1903. it was not the first and not the tallest. of course, we see this all the time. steel frame sky scrapers, but stop and think, what is the technology? basically back in the 1890s when they were introduced, they were explained as a rail road bridge on its end. how else do you explain this? most people were afraid of this thing and as a matter of fact, you might think we were all loving it, i mean, we love innovation, we're new york, we're americans, but actually this thing looked a little

scary. the poor guy who had this building was not too happy. he couldn't rent it out, nobody wanted to be here. they figured any moment it's going to topple over. >> this weekend, from cooper union, lectures and history. barry lewis on new york city in the late 19th and early 20th century. saturday night at 6:00 and 10:00 p.m. eastern. british comedian and actor russell brand recently testified before a british parliamentary committee on the uk's national drug policy. and told members that drug abuse should be treated as a health issue and not as a criminal issue. he talked about overcoming his drug addiction and discussed his documentary on how society views addiction. later, the committee heard from critics of the drug policy, who advocated for tougher drug laws.

>> does anyone know where the witnesses are? >> they're on their way, sir. >> oh, right, okay. >> hello. hello. >> good morning, mr. brand. >> thank you. >> please have a seat.

mr. brand, mr. thomas, thank you for coming. mr. russell brand, you gave evidence, written evidence to this committee, which members of the committee have read. can i start with a point about what you say in your evidence? that you disagree with the legalization of drugs because you think that a determ effect is necessary? is that right? >> i don't feel entirely qualified to talk about legislation. for me, what's more significant is the way that we socially regard the condition of addiction. it's something that i consider to be an illness and therefore more a health matter than a criminal or judicial matter. i don't think that legalization is something, as i said, i'm particularly qualified to get into. i can see areas in fact where decriminalization might be

considered useful and more efficient, you know, in countries like portugal or switzerland where there's been trials. it seems to be -- it seems to have had some efficacy. but for me, it's more important that we regard people suffering from addiction with compassion and that there's a pragmatic, rather than symbolic approach to treating it. and i think the legislative status of addiction ais kind of symbolic and not really functional. i don't see how it especially helps. i'm not saying, let's have a wacky free for all. didn't help me much. >> you are a former heroin addict. >> yeah. >> briefly, could you tell us how you got onto drugs and then how you managed to come off it and how many years you were on hard drugs? >> i see you've incorporated the word briefly, as you already know of my propensity for verve bossty. i became a drug addict, i think,

because of emotional difficulties, psychological difficult tills and perhaps a spiritual mall lady. for me, taking drugs was a result of a psychological spiritual or mental condition. i was sad, lonely, unhappy, detached and drugs and alcohol, for me, seemed like a solution to that problem. once i dealt with the emotional, spiritual, mental impetus, i no longer felt the need to use drugs. i got clean at chip somers. if you have the disease or illness of addiction, the best way toing thatle it is to not use drugs in any form, wherever it is state-sponsored open yats or illegal street drugs or a legal substance like alcohol. we see no distinction. what we believe in is that

abstinence-based recovery is the best solution for people suffering from this condition and the support structures exist to get people to maintain recovery. what we want is more research and funding into abstinence-based recovery and to be able to filter people towards this new lifestyle, which actually criminalization becomes less of an issue, in my view, because it takes people to fund their habits and gets them into being value members of thank you. >> thank you. >> was that brief enough? >> very brief, thank you. you were arrested roughly 12 times -- >> it was rough, yes. >> by the police. and the justice system. do you think that when you were arrested, that you had the kind of support that you needed and people like you who were arrested being involved in drugs, the rehabilitation, the support that was needed to get you off drugs? how did the criminal justice system react to you after your