know, that you know, a lot of cases that we have done all the investigations that we have done and then we are waiting for some judicial action. so there's another category that really is not classified. we have within our systems working with our warrant parents here we're distinguishinging to classifier another like a georgia case, many law enforcement agencies have the j type of cases. while we're carrying on with this criminal investigation, we also get the -- we want to get the administrative portion of it, woring, as well. because a lot of times if the u.s. attorney is not going to accept the criminal as a criminal case, woo he want to headache make sure we have done enough work on the administrative front end so they can take quick adminstrative action. so it's a dual front we work with the components. >>. >> do you want to add anything to that, mr. moynihan? >> ma'am,ivity just going to say

that every case stands on its own merits and you know, just the receipt of an allegation depending on the egregriousness or as evidence is developed we work closely whether it's i.c.e. management or cbp management to make a decision whether that eventual nermt of leaving that person in that particular position, the vulnerability is too great. we may need to put them on administrative duties while the investigation continues, r reassign them or depending on level of evidence and seriousness or the level and position of that individual, they may be put on administrative leave. but that would be each case would stand on its own and the facts and circumstances of that would help us base that decision. >> if you just indull me for a moment, mr. chairman. mr. winkowski, i think that you looked as though you may have had something to add. >> i'd just like to add a couple issues here. a couple of thoughts. i think you know, it's develop

very important that these allegations be worked quickly. so we have a responsibility to exonerate people, as well. and someone writes -- and i think the panelists will agree with me on that. we also have responsibility if we have an individual that is under some kind of suspicion that we need for that investigation to move quickly because that individual sill still on the line, if you will. they're still processing people, they're still processing cargo once we're notified by the investigation -- the investigators that there's an issue, we will take that person off the line. and put them on administrative duties as mr. moynihan said. once an indictment takes place and that individual is put on what we call indefinite suspension and then it's dealt with through the court systems and right now, we have about 11 people that are on indefinite suspension.

to the other point of your question, ma'am, and i think it's a really good point here, what do we do after that? so we have the investigation. there's an indictment. there's a conviction. you know, what do we do next? what we do in cbp is through our office of internal affairs, we dissect that. we look at where the vulnerabilities are, what do we need to do from a standpoint of challenging policies or processes. so our management controls or internal controls so it doesn't happen again. so it's that constant layer effect that we've implemented in cbp which i think is very, very important from the standpoint of making inroads and is very, very important subject. >> let me just in closing associate myself with the ranking members' remarks in terms of the seriousness of these charges and indictments

and convictions. the federal law enforcement bribes taken by tsa to improperly screen luggage, first of all, stealing personal belongings as people go through these screeners all the time and scanners and yet, the idea that tsa officials are stealing personal property, but beyond that is the national security implications. you know, the idea tsa officer would take a bribe to allow thousands of pieces of luggage to go through improperly screened or to allow drug trafficking organizations to have unfettered access. this is precisely what the terrorists are looking for. i.c.e. providing you know fraudulent documentation, you know, all these cases that we look at, they're trying to get things through airports, improper screening, improper documentation. that's exactly what they're trying to exploit.

you know? and then cbp taking bribes from drug cartel organizations. and given the seriousness of this, i do first want to say thank to you cbp for mr. winkowski for you showing up at the policy level, but i do want to express my extreme disappointment that tsa and i.c.e. given these allegations and not just allegations but proven fact did not bring forth the policy level witnesses that we requested. so it sends a signal to the congress that either they're not taking it very seriously or these officials are just trying to hide from the american people. and so i am not very happy with that. i again, associate myself with the ranking member with his remarks and with that, the committee stands adjourned.

snuch white house coverage this weekend on c-span, senator marco rubio gives the keynote address at the south carolina republican party's silver elephant fund-raising dinner. we'll also hear from the palmetto state's twos u.s. senators lipped say graham and jim demint starting at 8:00 p.m. tomorrow on c-span, c-span radio and online at c-span.org. live pictures from capitol hill as we await the start of a

homeland security subcommittee on counter security and intelligence hearing. it's running a little bit behind as committee members are in the house chamber right now voting on defense appropriations. should start within the next 45 minutes or so. we have it live when it gets under way. your phone calls while we wait from today's "washington journal." >> let's start by showing you some of the various headlines about the debt limit that appeared this week. here, for example, is "huffington post" nancy pelosi john boehner trade barbs over prospect of another fight. above that, boehner warns of debt ceiling battle. over on this side, this is reuters, debt limit hike need not be a crisis. geithner. "washington post" obama warns republicans about debt ceiling fight and ezra klein, will the 2013 debt ceiling be moot.

on the phone with us is ben while, staff writer for congressional quarterly. what message you want to send to washington about the debt ceiling. ben, good morning. why are we talking about it right now? when are the estimates when the ceiling will be hit? >> thanks for having me. the debt ceiling is not likely to be reached until the end of the year and possibly not until early next year. but as everyone starts to gear up for the election for this debate over the so-called fiscal cliff when the bush tax cuts expire, when the budget sequestration goes into effect, everyone's trying to gain a little bit of edge here. >> and what are the politics of this for speaker boehner? >> so speaker boehner as we recall last year, he said i won't raise the debt ceiling unless we cut spending or make reforms dollar for dollar. if he had gone back on that, i

think we all know there would have been a huge revolt on the conservative side. tea party backed republicans a lot of the freshmen would say we're giving up this easily? so i think even though last august was not kind to anyone, you know, had he gone a different direction, there would have been problems for him. >> and what about the senate? we've heard from the leaders in the house side. is the senate, are senate leadership or are key members in the senate talking about the debt ceiling right now as well? >> yes, they're definitely talking about it. republicans on both sides in the house and senate see the debt ceiling as an opportunity to try to reshape the government's priorities. the fiscal spending on social security, medicare, and they see this as one of their prime opportunities. senate majority leader harry reid, the nevada democrat who controls the senate has said you know, this is nonsense.

we still haven't finished dealing with the last debt ceiling drama. he said i have no intention of bringing this up anytime soon. >> so then is in right now a skirmish, a tempest in a teapot or will it have any kind of conclusion. i think everyone thinks that the election in november is going to send a direction, is really going to shape the way this turns out. depending on who wins, the presidency and who controls the senate and the house, is going to have a lot of leverage going to the debate on how to extend the tax cuts that no one wants to see entirely expire, how to deal with the cuts that are looming on the defense spending and domestic that both sides are really afraid of and how to raise the debt ceiling. if there's a president romney and republicans control the senate, they're going to be a lot less likely to want to negotiate with president obama during the lame duck section.

>> wen weyl, we'll see what the public thinks about the debt ceiling and whether or not other things are sharpening people's focus on washington. thanks so much for setting the is taken for our conversation with our audience. >> thanks a lot. the ben weyl who writes for congressional quarterly. let's show you this chart from the "washington post." and it looks at the debt ceiling from 1980 with president carter up until 2011 with president obama. and you can see how the debt ceiling has risen over that time period. the "washington post" which put this chart together tells us since 1980, the debt ceiling has been raised 39 times, 17 times under reagan, four times under clinton, seven times under george w. bush as a way for you to see what the debate has been like over the past several daks in this town. so we've posted this on facebook and already very some comments coming in. you can tweet us about the debt limit and also call us. let's start way couple facebook

comments. jeff mckowski writes lock it down, slash spending to keep it under the limit. if they can't do it, shut the doors. throw away the key and fire the whole lot of them. and below that, howard ginger writes set next year's budget to 2008 levels, the level of spending which then speaker pelosi voted for. now to phones. let's begin with somerville, south carolina. trudy is a democrat there. >> i think this is a very good time to have a very civil discussion about our debt. >> because it's not at a deadline? >> yes. and to senator reid and to speaker boehner, they have to raise the debt ceiling. we can't risk the possibility of another downgrade of our financial rating. and i just wish they'd behave like grown-ups and would come to a compromise. that's the only way anything's

going to get done. >> you actually think it's a good idea to talk about it now because it's not the intense pressure with the deadline looming? >> yes. >> thank you, trudy, from somerville, south carolina. next up, ogden, kansas, norma is a republican there. you're on. >> good morning. i don't think we should raise the debt ceiling. we cannot pay or we have a problem paying what we already owe. and everybody is talking about cutting taxes all the time. how much money do we have left in the treasury? and i have an idea. anybody that has a few million or billion, it would be nice if they would donate some of that money to help the debt. and people should get real. don't spend any more than you have. i've never done that. i'm almost 6. live within your means. >> you're saying that to the nation as well? >> yes, ma'am, because -- and i agree with that lady.

our congress should grow up. they were not put there for themselves or their company. well republicans, democrats. they were put up there to help make this country great. like it was. >> norma from ogden, kansas. on twitter, the higher the debt ceiling the lower in the cellar we go. stop the spending. next is a call from ohio. is the town pronounced zio? >> good morning to carol, democrat there. >> good morning. i think that we have always raised our debt ceiling because if we don't raise our debt ceiling, we're going to have a terrible time with our like it was before. they downgraded our thing. and that republican that was on just a little bit ago said they ought to raise more taxes. well, her party's the one that says we shouldn't raise any taxes to pay anything.

and i don't understand that. i really don't because if a family is wanting -- needing more income, usually either the wife goes to work or the husband gets a second job to bring in more money. so why can't we raise the taxes? >> all right, carol, thanks for your comment. next is john who's a democrat in the atlanta, georgia, good morning to you. >>. >> how are you doing this morning? >> i'm great. thank you. >> good. my comment basically is congress get it together. they need to come together and come to some sort of consensus. and you know in my opinion you know, this has gone on too long. also, maybe the members of congress should abort this business of getting those

cutbacks which was from the last administration and maybe that could be given to the, you know, to the debt ceiling. plus, maybe hitting a little bit of the salaries. i know that's not what they want it hear, but a percentage of their salaries to go toward lowering this debt ceiling. >> thank you, john. next up, ed, republican in columbia station, ohio, you're on. >> talking about the debt ceiling. everything. this is ridiculous what's going on. this is longer than the great depression. made it worse than the depression. and i don't think people realize in this country this debt is going to crumble the economy, everything. and to hear that they've both got to get along, the democrats, i am a republican. democrats have not in almost they controlled both seats in the white house and the presidency when he came in

office, president obama, he was my president who ran. i didn't vote for him first term. >> ed, are you there? let's move next to twitter. who writes monty writes to us, the short-term alternative to not raising the debt ceiling would be very devastating to the already devastated most disadvantaged. let's look at some video from speaker boehner and also from nancy pelosi. >> the very fact that they would say tax cuts for the wealthy don't have to be offset but investments in the education of our children, medicare for our seniors any other subject that has to be offset is really a statement of their values. you've got to give them credit. they stick with the guy that brung them to the dance. and the guy that brought them to the dance are the special interest wealthiest people in our country and they're willing to deepen the deficitity, make

us further in debt to china and other countries in order to give a tax break to the wealthiest people in the country and it's not creating jobs. so it's not even a question of sincerity. it's a question of what is their value statement. >> we can use the debt limit debate to be the force washington to act to cut spending and enact some of the real reforms that will help put america on a path to prosperity. listen, this is all about jobs. our debt and our deficit act as a wet blanket over our economy causing employers and investors to wonder enterwashington going to act. the sooner that we deal honestly with our long-term debt and our budget deficit, the sooner the skies begin to clear, more certainty comes so that american employers can do what they do best, put americans to work. >> talking with you about the debate in washington that's beginning months ahead of the deadline about raising the debt

ceiling. let's listen next to charles a republican in alexandria. good morning. >> i just wanted to say that deficit spending is not bad in and of itself. most people don't realize that the revolutionary war, the war of 1812, and the in ex-can war of 1848 were all fought on credit. even eisenhower who is an icon of the republican party said that the government can run deficits they're in recession but should run surplus during recovery time. deficit spending is a tool that must be used carefully, jushsly and properly. >> are we doing that right now as a nation, charles? >> i think we can turn this thing around if we don't lose our heads. we work together properly in a solid bipartisan way, i think that the deficit can be turned around. and we can use deficit spending

properly and judiciously. we talk about every child that's born today is so many thousands of dollars in debt. that's true. but every child that's born also owns the aircraft also born own the aircraft carriers, the national parks, and has a stake in the operation of this government. deficit spending has got to be used carefully, judiciously, and properly. and one thing we can't do, we cannot tax our way out of this deficit. historically, since the end of world war ii, every dollar of increased taxes has resulted in $1.17 of increased spending. we are overspent, not undertaxed. thank you. >> charles from alexandria, virginia. donna, 816 on twitter has a different point of view. she writes, "you cannot cut your way to a balanced budget. people need jobs." with the g-8 summit coming here this weekend, actually more precisely to camp david and the

maryland suburbs of washington, about an hour away or so, there's a lot of focus on the contrasting approaches taken by europe to the financial crisis in the united states. that's the off lead in this morning's "washington post." an ocean apart on solving euro crisis. g-8 summit likely to focus on u.s. spending versus german cuts. here's what michael burn became writes from berlin. germany has taken a tough-love austerity-driven approach to solving europe's recession pushing struggling countries to cut spending. the u.s. confronted its own crisis with an $862 billion stimulus package in 2009 which brought debt levels to heights not seen since shortly after world war ii but may have dealt the worst blow of its downturn. chancellor angela merkel, her advisers and much of the opposition see europe's problems in starkly different terms. merkel's impulse, to fight debt at all cost, boost investor

confidence, has been at the core of europe's crisis response because germany has been calling the shots. but she has come under heavy criticism from americans who say her efforts are misplaced. back to your phone calls. this is springfield, virginia, chip, democrat. good morning. >> caller: good morning. yeah. my biggest problem as a democrat is mostly the democrats. democrats are scared to invoke how we got here, to invoke george w. bush. you can look into history i mean, and take the stock market, too. the storm does good under democrats. that's how it's been. obama wishes he had taken his country without two wars and no debt left behind from george bush. you can look through this since obama came into office. the policies that he passed, it was basically for the recovery. now the recovery -- he doesn't

have those money to put into the system so ask yourself what will we keep paying? still paying for the same thing george bush caused. look at the history. republican politics, it caused so much pain. this country has gone through so much pain under republican leadership. everybody -- don't pullening something from somebody designing a website in the basement and look at how the debt -- u.s. accumulate debt under the republican government. and to know that their policies are mixed. and look at the 50 states. and look at the most povrished states in the country. low education. and the poor, the reason for republicans, but these people try. the lawmakers try to do this

against their own will. >> chip, thanks for your comments. springfield, virginia, mike freeman, 34 hunter on twitter and writes to us, "this is infantile and ignorant. debt is a long-term issue. there is time to enhance our revenue stream and slowly root out wasteful practices." well, as you c-span watchers know last summer's showdown over the debt limit led to compromise agreement which puts in place automatic spending cuts if the congress doesn't reach certain targets. that's called sequestration in washington lingo. in the "washington times," there's a lead story today talking about the defense industry. a lot of it headquartered in the washington suburbs area here, looking ahead to the possibility of sequestration. let me read to you what they say. sequestration could cost the pentagon $600 billion, headline defense contractors cuts to jobs and plants. john waterman writes defense contractors already are

preparing for the layoffs and plant closures that will occur if congress fails to reach a deal on the federal deficit this year triggering $600 billion in automatic pentagon spending cuts. we are running toward a liv, all telling each other like lemmings this somehow isn't going to happen, said marian blakey, president and ceo of the aerospace industries association, but the cliff is coming up. next call is from los angeles, and this is newton. good morning. republican. >> caller: good morning. thanks for c-span. you know, once again, like an out-of-control spinning one direction merry-go-round, i hate to say it, but it's the same word of debt. it's just mind-boggling that we're discussing quarter after quarter how deeper and deeper in debt we're getting. our nation's overpopulated. we have too many social services. we're selling out our country.

too many imports. let's get this nation back to work. let's get the american people back to work. let's start becoming an industrial power. let's lock down this country and start exporting instead of importing. >> newton, thanks. paducah, kentucky, up next, and james is an independent there. james, you're on. >> caller: i don't believe raising the debt creeling is going to do any good. you can't spend your way back to prosperity. i believe what we need to do is just bite the bullet, man up, and go ahead and raise the taxes across the board, something everybody don't want to hear, but that's what it's going to lead to. two or three years down the road. might as well just do it now. say for the low income, 1%, 2%, higher income, 15%, just go

ahead and raise taxes and bring in some revenue and get things moving again. that's what it's going to take to get this country moving back to prosperity again. >> thank you, james. paducah, kentucky. next up is phoenix, all the way across the country from kentucky. joe is watching and is a democrat. you're on. good morning. >> caller: good morning to you. it just amazing me that we're not -- that we're even talking about not raising the debt ceiling. i mean, it's such a vital thing that needs to happen at this point in time. our country being in the state it is, we need to spend. i don't really see any reason to cut spending. every time we spend we create jobs. we need to deficit spend, cannibalize the defense budget and build infrastructure. when you start attacking people like the 1%, you know, pretty soon billions and billions and billions of dollars but we're giving them tax cuts. i don't really understand that.

>> let's check in with your facebook community. here are some of the comments posted recently. mark b. writhes let's follow the greece example, saying that's sarcasm. austin ray walter, how about we don't raise it? the government doesn't deserve to be bailed out. our debt deserves to be nonexistent. heather, stop the insane spending spree. jason burnett likes ron paul. how about lowering the wasteful debt ceiling? one more, paul martin, in some instances the strategy to raise the debt ceiling may work but the general public must have confidence in congress. recent public opinion shows the american public is fed up with congressional gridlock and a do-nothing congress. congress has raised the debt ceiling for too long. stop the unnecessary spending, take care of the citizens, business, military personnel, the disabled senior citizens, start spending money on infrastructure and stop the wasteful spending. next is a call from green county, north carolina. good morning to mary, who's a republican there. you're on, mary.

>> caller: hello? >> you're on, mary. go ahead. >> caller: hello? >> mary, we can hear you. go ahead, please. >> caller: oh, yes. the senate has not passed a balanced budget. and why are they not passing a balanced budget? they're just spending too much money. >> all right, mary. thanks for your comments. the treasury secretary, tim geithner, has been speaking out about the debt ceiling this week. we showed you one article. here's one from this morning's paper of a visit to maryland. geithner addresses reforms. and you can see here he's visiting the marlin steel wire factory. and in the paper it says geithner sharply criticized deep cuts to federal spending which romney supports, quote, a credible strategy for economic growth requiring a willingness to do thing not just cut things. opinions that the government is adding too quickly to the