deficit are overblown. the only expanding areas of federal spending are medicare, medicaid, and social security. because of the growing number of retirees, he said. you can't repeal the aging population, geithner quipped. next is a call from new york. is it -- how do you say that? >> caller: yes, ma'am. >> good morning to frank, an depth there. how are you? >> caller: good morning. good morning to c-span. good morning, american people. i just want to basically remind the republican that they need to get the game out of -- they just need to stop playing games because the heroes, ronald reagan, raised the debt ceiling 17 times. president george bush raised the debt ceiling seven times. let's just do the right thing. let's get this country moving again and just let it get the game out of the politics. thank you very much. >> thank you, sir. next up, dallas. good morning to jackie, democrat there. >> caller: yes. good morning.

how are you? >> just great, thank you. >> caller: i guess they can go ahead on, the republicans. i'm just kind of glad they in there because everybody was so hateful and so against president obama. he's not doing anything that any other president hasn't done or tried to do. and so the lady from california was saying too much spending. i know she's probably getting her social security. so since they want to cut everything, let them cut it. then i met a lady yesterday that was a republican, and she was almost in tears. she said that her husband had been to a temporary agency to get a job, and he had been there four hours before he could get an interview. but that's what they asked for. all republicans is talking about is gays or people fighting and that money has been sitting there for those rich people for all this time. and no one has created not one job. and they keep heading to uncertainty. you're going to have uncertainty

if you don't open up your money and hire people for certainty. then no one can have a job. all i can say, i am so glad, and just keep on voting them in there. and they talk about the food stamp president. do you know what seniors get on food stamps? >> i don't. >> caller: $16 a month. and they act like they're really giving somebody something. okay, republicans, have it your way and i'm loving it. >> from dallas. well, as i mentioned, facebook, lots of talk all around the country about ipoj and it's on the front page of many of the newspapers. facebook is a tough habit to kick and investors like that in "the los angeles times." on capitol hill, some senators not happy with the fact that the co-founder has moved to singapore and they say not paying his fair share of taxes as a result. yesterday, chuck schumer and bob casey introduced a measure that would address him, mr. savin, and people like him. here's a story about it in this

morning's "wall street journal." and it says, the facebook co-founder of thursday denied allegations by two senate democrats that he gave up his american citizenship to avoid taxes saying his decision to live in singapore was purely personal and he will owe the u.s. hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes despite the move. and the -- capitol hill yesterday, mr. schumer told reporters that mr. salve rinn had turned his back on the country and kept him safe, educated him, and helped him become a billionaire. through a spokesperson, he reiterated his decision wasn't about taxes. he said i will continue to invest in u.s. businesses and start-ups and believe and hope those investments will create many new jobs in the u.s. and globally. he's already subject to an exit tax that requires certain expatriates who give up their citizenship to pay tax on the unrealized gains on as sets exceeding $600,000. that's 15% of the fair market value on his facebook state on

the day before he gave up his u.s. citizenship. next is a call from phoenix. independent. you're on. >> caller: 15% of the fair market value -- >> we're listening to the volume on the tv. we're going to let you go. sorry. keep that volume down. up next is ashtabula, ohio. greg is a republican. go ahead. >> caller: good morning, and thank you for taking my call. it's pronounced ashtabula, ohio. it means river of many fishes. >> is it still, greg? >> caller: pardon me? >> is it still a river of many fishes? >> caller: it is a river of many fishes. >> i'm wondering if the river is still full of many fishes. >> caller: it's doing very well. our local people love it. i want to say something very briefly and quickly as i possibly can. i am an african-american. i'm a laid-off person. i've been laid off quite a while. >> what is your business? >> caller: i worked in manufacturing. i'm a factory worker.

>> what was your factory making? >> caller: rubber, rubber to metal and also steel, plastics. i worked wherever i could. i'm traditionally just a factory worker. i just want to say, particularly to my african-american people that watch the show and so on and so forth, i am a conservative, but i want you guys to understand something. as much as i would like to have free health care, as much as i would like to have unemployment without end, as much as i would like to have food stamps and all that, it cannot continue fref. there comes a point where, you know, as a family, as a household, as a business or whatever, you cannot spend money endlessly without bringing something back. so let's keep in mind, i'm also a big fan -- i want to bring up something that was talked about last night, how his family

started a little business and they took care of their family. my family was exactly the same thing. here's a jewish man who came from modest means. i'm an african-american and we came from modest means, did the best we could, and we made do. we didn't get mad at the rich. we just tried to do the best that we could. that's what the american dream is all about. just trying to do the best we can. you may be rich someday, you may not. but at least we have a chance. i want the african-american viewers, listeners, partsons to understand that we need to just pursue the american dream to the best that we can and if we make it, we make it, if we don't, we don't. at least we have a chance. thank you very much. >> thank you to greg from ashtabula, ohio, the river of many fishes. the "chicago tribune" has a banner headline this morning about the nato summit arriving their way. ready, set, nato.

diplomats and demonstrators will put the city to test. let's listen to national security advisor shean donovan, who yesterday talked to the press about some of the issues, international issues, security issues that are facing the leaders as they gather for the nato summit. >> the focus will be on security issues friday evening. the next morning the focus will turn to the economy. of course the global economy, especially the economic situation in the eurozone, are going to be at the top of the agenda. this is the first opportunity for the leader of the major developed economies to meet face to face since thepresident hollande's election in france. this will be the first for the prime minister of italy and prime minister noda of japan. obviously this comes at a very delicate time with respect to the european economy, the eurozone economy.

>> that's national security advis advisor. laura gallagher on facebook about the discussion we're having this morning about the debt ceiling writes, let the bush tax cuts expire. tax cuts during wartime, really? it's almost laughable. time and again under bush the war funding was never in the budget. emergency supplemental funding had to be borrowed for the wars again and again. it just slipped their minds, i guess, year after year. next up, las vegas. democrat, etd, good morning. >> caller: good morning. i'm a bleeding-heart democrat, and i wear it as a badge of honor. what i would like to know is the job data get permission from grover norquist to go into discussions about the debt and if he did, did grover norquist put restrictions on what he could and couldn't do. >> okay. thanks, ed. don't know the answer to that question, but we'll leave it as a rhetorical one.

mike, republican from california. >> caller: how you doing? i got about four comments. the guy from facebook who moved to singapore, i don't know what these democrat senators think they are. they don't own the guy. so he can leave anytime he wants. number two, you got all these people calling in talking about the debt ceiling. it seems to me that, you know, as long as it's other people eelts money, they don't have a problem, you know, spending it or whatever, you know. the other thing is don't worry. republicans are going to take the senate back and president romney will take care of business and everything will be okay. thank you. >> mike from california. tom coburn in the senate has an idea that's a bit of symbolism, and he recognizes that, but here's what he's suggesting. coburn urges parties to return convention funds, says move would demonstrate fiscal discipline. senator tom coburn on thursday urged both national parties to voluntarily return millions of taxpayer dollars they received to fund their nominating conventions saying democrats and

the gop should show leadership in reducing the federal deficit. the democratic and republican national committees each have pocketed $18.2 million from the u.s. treasury to help defray the costs of the democrats' three-day gathering in charlotte and the gop's four-day convention in tampa. mr. coburn said giving back the taxpayer money would show voters that both parties are serious about fixing the country's financial woes. next is newburn, north carolina, warren. you're on. >> caller: hi. how you doing? >> good. thank you. >> caller: good. i was just wondering, you know, we keep hearing all the time about how lobbyists are putting money into the government and politicians. why can't some of the money from the lobbyists be diverted and used to pay some of the debt ceiling? >> okay. leave the as an idea. thanks, warren. another warren is in the news, and that's warren buffett. yesterday he made a major investment in newspapers.

here is the banner headline on the "richmond times-dispatch," one of 63 media general newspapers warren buffett bought yesterday. and you can see that he spent $142 million to buy those 63 papers. as the paper said, it ushers in a new era for the change. next is a call from philadelphia. hi, tony. you're on. independent. >> caller: yes. hi. i just wanted to bring up something. taxing the rich versus not taxing them, mitch mcconnell says we can't tax the job creators. if that were true, the upper class increases their 1%, we like to call them, has increased their percentage, but they tripled the amount of wealth they've had since the early '80s. if that were true, we'd be swimming in jobs right now.

so that is a fallacy to what he's saying. we need government spending and middle-class spending as a result of that jobs and the rich will get richer. it will benefit everybody. so if we don't straighten out the tax code on the upper class, we're going to continue along this problem. >> tony, thanks so much, from philadelphia. joseph ramirez on twitter, republican conservatives want to not pay our bills already approved to improve the economy. novel indeed. "usa today" has a profile of hillary clinton winding down home run tenure at the state department. you can see the headline on it and the picture, hillary's horizon. it is a full page inside the newspaper. and here's a little of what they say. americans are supportive of hillary clinton 60% viewing her favorably in a poll the second highest mark in her two-decade washington career. she's been rated the most admired woman in the world in

the gallup polls for 16 of the past 19 years. what stands between clinton and the great diplomats of the past, some say, are two things -- a landmark accomplishment and a free hand from the white house to carve her place in history. perhaps the biggested a o mission from clinton's resume is advancing middle east peace. she hasn't picked up the ball. neither has president obama says diana, a former legal adviser to palestinian authority mahmoud abbas. it signals they don't have a policy any longer when it comes to israel and the palestinians. back to phone calls on debt limit. we're asking you what your message to washington should be about the debt limit. bloomington, illinois, hi to bud, a republican there. >> caller: good morning, susan. >> good morning. >> caller: countries with trade surpluses don't have debt problems. i think what we need to do is start producing for ourselves aga again, and when we do that, we

take people off the unemployment roles and they become taxpayers again. so i think it's the trade deficit that's the problem, and i think what we need to do is start producing for ourselves again. >> thanks, bud. there's a trade story in the "financial times" this morning. trade war fears as u.s. plans duties on chinese solar imports. anti-dumping tariffs split the industry. the u.s. commerce department has proposed anti-dumping duties on imports of chinese solar cells, raising the threat of a trade dispute and dividing the u.s. solar industry over the decision. the proposed tariffs for dumping, selling at less than fair value, are at about 31% for 91 named chinese suppliers at about 250% for other imports from china. the decision follows a collapse in prices for solar components caused by global manufacturing over capacity after aggressive expansion, particularly in china. next up is lake charles, louisiana. hi, francis. a democrat there. >> yes. good morning.

the debt ceiling should be raised simply because it is a matter of us owning our debt. there's no reason that our debt shouldn't -- that our debt ceiling shouldn't be raised. and i'd like to say something to the man from ohio, the black conservative. it's nice of him to -- to say that we -- that black people don't need and should earn what we get and -- and that it's all right because -- because we should earn whatever we supposed to. i think we already got that message. i don't think we need this conservative to tell it to us. and the other thing i'd like to say to him is maybe you ought to

check and find out just who is using food stamps and who is living on our taxes and our government handouts and all the rest of it before he starts throwing in about him being a black conservative. that is not helping the situation, and it certainly isn't helping him because he do not look like he's intelligent -- >> okay, frances. we're going to stop there. lake charles, louisiana. a couple quick items as we round out our conversation with you. justice brye yar again a victim of burglary. this is the second time this year justice stephen breyer has been the victim of burglary. last was in a vacation home in the caribbean, this time his washington broken into. no one was home at the time and a housekeeper discovered the burglary on may 4th. also this from "the times."

house to consider proposal to bar indefinite detention after arrests on u.s. soil. lawmakers are considering amendments to the national defense authorization act. that's what they're doing right now and will begin again at 9:00 this morning. one sponsored by adam smith of washington, a democrat, and a republican of michigan, would scale back a highly contested provision about indefinite detention created in last year's version of the law saying it does not apply to domestic arrests. a couple more minutes here. also this from "the wall street journal." nasa stresses new mission, and that's jobs. emphasis on private flights as a job engine leads to scientific and safety worries. now nasa officials are debating whether the plan's main goal to be fostering jobs to stimulate the economy. tension between boosting science or the economy erupted during a meeting earlier this year at the agency's headquarters in washington. addressing a group of high-level outside advisers, nasa deputy administrator laurie carver emphasized that the primary aim of outsourcing cargo to private

industries is to promote thousands of high-tech jobs. alarmed, aero experts on nasa's safety panel shot back. the program should remain focused on long-standing engineering and performance criteria building rock epts and capsules able to reliably reach earth's orbit. back to the debt ceiling. vivian shepardson tweets, oh, i see. baner wants another sequestration? i guess the one we have isn't enough. next up a call, york, pennsylvania, leroy, independent. good morning, sir. >> caller: good morning, ma'am. >> to capitol hill, a hearing on terrorism sponsored by the homeland security subcommittee on counterterrorism and intelligence. they're looking into efforts since 9/11 to cut off money to terrorist organizations. >> i now recognize myself for an opening statement. i'd like to welcome everyone to today's hearing on combatting

terrorist financing more than a decade after the september 11th attacks. i look forward to hearing from today's expert witnesses. and i mean expert. on a unique role of terrorist financing and what it plays in the war on terrorism and on the evolving trends in this field. september 11th hijackers used united states and foreign financial institutions to hold, move, and retrieve their money. they deposited money into united states accounts via wire transfers and depp sits of traveler's checks and cash that was brought from overseas. they kept funds in foreign accounts which they accessed through atmst and credit card transactions in the home land. according to the september 11th commission, the plot cost al qaeda somewhere in the range

of $400,000 to $500,000, of which approximately $300,000 passed through the hijackers' bank casualties here in the united states. after the attacks, the united states publicly declared that the fight against al qaeda financing was as critical as the fight against al qaeda itself. the charge of the united states intelligence and law enforcement communities was clear -- if we choke off the terrorists' money, we limit their ability to conduct mass casualty attacks. within months of the attacks, the department of defense, the fbi, the cia, and perhaps most importantly the department of treasury launched a swift and unprecedented crackdown on domestic and international terrorist financing. and i'm very pleased, in fact, some of the very people who are responsible for that are sitting on our expert panel today. since then, the treasury's office of terrorism and financial intelligence has played a critical intelligence and enforcement role against terrorist financing through its

dual aims of safeguarding the united states financial system against illicit use and combatting rogue nations' terrorist facilitators, money launderers, drug kingpins, and other national security threats. the department of treasury and the intelligence community's successes against al qaeda financing and fund-raising is without question. in 2005, the 9/11 commission issued a report card that evaluated progress the government had made in implem t implementing that group's recommendations. it gave the government an a-minus. not too many a-minuses at this day or any day in government. but it gave it that mark in combatting terrorist financing. the best mark on the scorecard. but despite our successes -- and this is important -- we can't become complacent because al qaeda and its affiliates continue to expand their geographic reach worldwide. state sponsors of terrorism like iran and syria are highly

sophisticated, and they continue to take advantage of the united states and international financial systems in order to skirt international sanctions. the united states military and counterterrorism efforts have largely decimated core al qaeda leadership in afghanistan and pakistan and the group's under significant financial strain and is struggling to secure steady financing to plan and execute attacks against the united states homeland and western interests. the terrorists and the enemies we now face -- the terrorist enemies we now face are more diverse, diffuse, and decentralized than ever. al qaeda and their affiliates have concluded that to bring america down they will attack with, quote, smaller but more frequent operations, what some may refer to as the strategy of a thousand cuts. the aim is to bleed the enemy, meaning us, to death.

if june 2011, the obama administration unleashed a national program for counterterrorism. aqap receiving charitable donations in yemen. hezbollah's drug and criminal activities. aqa m's link to drug trafficking and kidnapping with al shabab and kidnapping for ransom and extortion. hezbollah facilitators were particularly savvy in skirting u.s. restrictions on terrorist financing and have been charged in a number of high-profile criminal schemes. as a former united states attorney in philadelphia, i initiated investigations into hezbollah's fund-raising activities that included attempts to transport stolen laptop computers, passports, and sony playstation systems. a separate intricate hezbollah scheme shows the

interconnectedness of these networks where a lebanese bank launlderred money from colombian drug cartels and mixed it with proceeds from used car sales that were bought in the united states and then sold in africa. the cash was then moved back into lebanon and poured into hezboll hezbollah's coffers. clearly, these groups are highly innovative and motivated and we must be up to the challenge. terrorist groups and state sponsors of terrorism turning to criminal activity to set up additional networks to acquire logistical support and to raise financial resources is another evolving trend which could point to future activities of terrorist financing. given this shifting trend and the relatively low amounts of money required to undertake an attack, the united states government may need to recalibrate some of its tactics and examine how the intelligence and law enforcement communities and i believe also the financial

entities, the private financial entities will adapt their strategies in order to address remaining vulnerabilitiy ies in combatting terrorist financing. i thank the witnesses for taking the time to be with us today, and i look forward to hearing from this distinguished panel. the chair now recognizes the distinguished ranking member of the subcommittee on counterterrorism and the gentleman from new york, mr. higgins, for any statement he may have. >> thank you, mr. chairman. just briefly, in reference to your opening statement, we've learned in prior hearings that hezbollah, which is a terrorist organization, shia muslim group, committed to committing jihad, acts as a proxy for venezuela, for syria, and for iran. they have a presence in the 20-country region, latin america, additionally, they have a presence in 15 american cities, including four major

cities in canada. we've also been told that we're not to be too concerned about this, that their activiies are limited to fund-raising. well, i see the fund-raising activities by a terrorist group as an act of terrorism at least in a preliminary way. so those are some of the concerns that i have. but in the interest of time, i will submit my opening statement for the record so that we can get to the expert witnesses. thank you for being here. thank you, mr. chairman. i yield back. >> thank you. other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the record. we're pleased to have a distinguished panel of witnesses before us today on this important topic. dr. jonathan chanzer is the vice president of research at the foundation for the defense of democracies. he worked as a terrorism finance analyst at the united states department of treasury where he played an integral role in the

designation of numerous terrorist financiers. the doctor has also worked for several other united states-based think tanks, including the washington institute for near east policy and jewish policy center and the middle east forum. he studied middle east history in four countries and most recently earned his ph.d. from kings college in london where he wrote his dissertation on the u.s. congress and its efforts to combat terrorism in the 20th century. mr. john casar enjoyed a 26--year career in the federal government intelligence and law enforcement community as an expert in anti-money laundering and terrorist financing. he worked at the department of treasury's financial crimes enforcement network, and this was the first institution set up to take on the issue of terrorist financing. and at the united states financial intelligence unit. he was detailed to work in the office of terrorism, finance, and financial intelligence at the department of treasury and the department of states bureau of international narcotics and

law enforcement affairs and anti-money laundering section. that had to be quite a business card. during his law enforcement investigative career, mr. cassara conducted a large number of smuggling and diversion of weapon and high-technology investigations. just the scope of that demonstrates that numerous schemes that are possible. these investigations took place in africa, the middle east, and europe for a variety of federal agencies including directing the first truly international money launlderring task force and serving as an undercover arms dealer. mr. dennis loaml is the president and ceo of dml associates, a full-service investigative consultancy. he retired from the fed rag bureau of investigation in 2003 after 30 years of government service and almost 28 as a special agent in the fbi. in december 2000 he was

appointed the chief of the fbi's financial crimes program. following the terrorist attacks of september 2001, he established and directed the fbi's terrorist financing initiatives, which evolved into the terrorist financing operations section within the counterterrorism division. since leaving law enforcement, he's provided risk advisory consulting services and has served as an adviser to the congressional anti-terrorist financing task force. and the honorable sue eckert is a senior fellow at the thomas j. watson institute at brown university where her research is concentrated on making united nations sanctions more effective through targeting and combatting the financing of terrorism. strirt joining brown university, ms. eckert was employed at the institute of international economic, and from 1993 until 1997, ms. eckert was a