setting. there's the natural respect and comradery. it's a very big way of expanding training profiles and getting a curriculum in the field that you avoid travel costs and things of that nature. >> thank you. i want to turn the rest of my time to the issue of fire grants. in 2009 and 2011 i helped introduce legislation for the fire grant. unfortunately neither has been passed into law. the grants would be more accessible to fire departments across the country and bring stability to the crucial source of fund for local fire authorities. dr. hall, in your testimony you speak to the importance of these grant programs and the effects they had in our communities. can you comment on the importance of reauthorizing these programs and your thoughts on proposed changes on the reauthorizing language?

>> thank you, congressman. yes, we have considerable analysis which was done in association with our needs assessment surveys to demonstrate the good targeting and the effectiveness and the cost effectiveness of the grants programs in all kinds of different resource areas. we have made the results of those studies available to every member of congress and their staff and would be happy to discuss these things in detail at your discretion. i do not honestly have any suggestions or thoughts on the reauthorizing language. i know our washington, d.c. office would be more than happy to discuss that kind of detail with any of you and your staffs as you go forward. >> thank you. appreciate that and hopefully we'll continue to take advantage of that opportunity. i hope my colleagues do also. and with that i will yield back the remainder of my time.

>> thank you. going to open it up to a second round for those who would like to ask additional questions. i now recognize myself for five minutes. there's been a lot of discussion about resources. and i understand that over the course of a number of different years that the authorization level has been up to $70 million for the usfa. and then the appropriations actually came in much lower than that. and i think in the 2013 house funding bill basically it provides $32.46 million which was right about the same level that the request from the president and his budget. i know that that's not the level that you will like, but i do think that this hearing has been very informative to see what the priority of the usfa and how we can support your endeavors in very tough budgetary times. i think that providing an authorization level that is much

higher than really we can afford i think is a little bit irresponsible. but i do want to continue to go down and see what priority and what we can do to make sure that we are giving the support that's necessary even though we might not be getting to the levels that you would like. chief mitchell was talking about how wildfires are a more significant threat. arizona is currently battling four wildfires in the central and eastern part of the state. we had a wallow fire last year and we continue to see this. can you give me some insight on why are wildfires becoming a more significant threat? is it forest management policy such as ensuring that we are keeping fuel low and trees thinned to a healthy level or patterns of development because people are moving closer to forests or a combination of both? >> thank you. i would say it's a combination

of both. i'm not as well versed on the fuels management program that they have, but i can promise you that as we grow as a community, we're reaching out into areas that were never designed for fire trucks to get into and take care of. as we expand the size of our cities or the movement out into the urban interface area we just increase the number of buildings that are going to be hurt during the wild land fires. i believe it's both, but primarily the way that we're managing our growth. >> okay. thanks. chief mitchell, do you have any thoughts on why they're becoming more significant? >> again, i'm not as familiar with the fuel management part of it, although we are engaged with other agencies now in studying fuel management and how fuel management versus fire response

and prevention all interact. but coming up in the fire service in southern california i know a large part of the problem was based upon more building and living in the interphase zones. the lack of fire resistive construction in those areas and some of the other preventive and mitigation measures that could and should be enacted to prevent loss. >> okay. thank you. and dr. hall, it's been described that one of the usfa's training challenges is reaching out to all firefighters across the country and increase in online classes and distance training. has the nfpa performed any research to try to quantify the impact of training programs and has the nfpa specifically measured the effectiveness of remote training? >> thank you, mr. chairman. the analysis that we have conducted is not at that level

of detail. we have results that indicate that the training situation for the fire service has improved to a limited degree between the first of our needs assessment surveys and the more recent survey. but we have not been in a position to look at specific data about people reached or the efficiency of particular methods of delivery. >> okay. thank you very much. and i now recognize the ranking member miss edwards. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you for this second round of questions. i want to go back to the issue of credentialing. i recognize that we have a lot of local fire departments. firefighting is essentially a local activity. weal have a number of circumstances particularly major disasters where we're calling on one jurisdiction to support another jurisdiction. for me this is where the question of credentialing comes forward because i think it's

really important for us to make sure that whomever is responding in whatever jurisdiction has the same capacities so they fit right into the program and are able to respond appropriately. so mr. o'connor, can you elaborate on the recommendation for credentialing and explain why you think it's important and then if chief mitchell could comment on the status because i think mr. o'connor you indicated there's some lagging since it's been in the hopper since 2006. >> this was something that was brought forth after 9/11 and certainly katrina. you articulated very well. i don't think anyone on the federal level or even the fire service wants to suggest to local communities what the level of fire training should be or ought to be. that is up to the local community. we recognize that. we don't want to try to intervene with that. however, one of those larger scale instances flooding in the

plains or a hurricane coming ashore, a wildfire whatever the instance is, you need an appropriately trained and skilled responder to actually handle that type of a crisis. and throughout very many fire departments as you know, i was a firefighter, a structural firefighter in bawel county. i don't have the training in wild land fire fiting. it would have been useless to have me dispatched to that incident. the point is to make sure that incident commanders and there's some coo type of a clearinghouse or databasing that firefighters and departments are typecast so you know what training, what level of responders trained. it simply makes common sense. i think everyone recognizes that. i also recognize that this was not specifically tasked to the u.s. fire administration. it was also within the agency, but it's something that frankly is a responsibility of the incident commander and the

people responding. it's why it's so important that it's following through. >> administrator mitchell, if you could comment about where the status is and where we're moving on that. if this is something we've been considering since 2006, my recollection is in the 9/11 where you had people who understandably departments that wanted to respond but in a very unique fire situation you could see how making sure you've got the right people responding could be life saving. >> yes. i worked in a very active mutual aid system myself for many years. we do recognize how important it is that people are able to work together and at the essential levels for their own safety and in order to be effective. i've been advise that had the fire administration and fire academy did a credentialing review and took input from the fire service and made a

recommendation internal to fema. i would have to back in about 2005 or 2006. i would have to get back to you on what that status is since our recommendation went forward. >> that would be extremely helpful. it's 2012. it would seem to me if a religious has been made from the experts that there should be some way that that gets expedited for consideration six years is a good way to expedite things. thank you. lastly chief mitchell in the authorizing bill there's a requirement for the secretary of homeland security to establish a fire service position at the national operations center. ooib given to understand that that is not a full time position with full time status. can you update us on that requirement and how it's being fulfilled by the fire administration. >> that is correct.

it was not approved as 24/7 in terms of full time. but as a full time position for a person to deal with transfer of data and information. that position has been approved and is presently being advertised for so we are in the process of filling that position. >> is it important that there be, you know, sort of a concerted person designate from the fire administration representing the fire sfrss at the national operations center? >> yes. we believe that would be extremely helpful as far as when you say full time if we're trauking about around the clock given the resource demands that's probably not our most efficient way if the threat level were raised to a point we would handle it as we do other positions at that time and staff up around the clock based on conditions. but on a data day basis it would be a full time equivalent

position. thank you very much and thanks to all the witnesses. >> thank you. i'd like to thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony and the members for their questions. the members of the subcommittee may have additional questions for the witnesses and we'll ask you to respond to those in writing. the record will remain open for two weeks for additional comments and statements from members. the witnesses are excused. thank you all for coming. this hearing is now adjourned.

>> wrapping up our coverage of this house science subcommittee. to find out more information on this or any congressional committee, check out c-span's congressional directory. al cabinet members, supreme court justices and the nation's governors. you can get a copy for $12.95 plus shipping and handling. order online at cspan.org/shop. be sure to join us later today

for more from book tv. coming up live at 6:30 eastern it's author timothy gay will discuss his book "assignment to held." it's about the history of american war reporting. we have a hearing tomorrow with the discussion of oceanic law and u.s. national security. secretary of state hillary clinton, defense secretary leon panetta and the chair of the joint chiefs of staff general martin dempsey will testify. that will be live tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span3. and also coming up tomorrow the senate homeland security committee will hear about an investigation into the recent indent in colombia involving secret service officers and prostitutes. that gets underway at 10:30 a.m. eastern on our companion network c-span. >> there are people that look at what happened with j.p. morgan

and say this company did something done, lost money. didn't collapse, fired people who were responsible this is the market at work. this is how it's supposed to happen. why does government need to play a role. >> to some extent it's true, but i take some credit for it and it's because government had played a role. if this had happened five years ago, if jp morgan lost more than $2 billion, i think you would have seen much more panic in the economy. much more concern. what we did in the legislation we passed was to require the financial institutions and better capitalized. >> this past weekend congressman barney frank spoke about the loss by j.p. morgan chase. the dodd frank law and gay marriage. watch his comments online at the c-span video library.

>> last week the small business administration hosted a three-day conference focussing on the importance of american entrepreneurialism. during this next panel discussion sba administrator karen mills said small businesses play a crucial role in building the economy to last. he praises the administration to give small business owners the tools to grow and succeed. other business leaders include darlene miller the council of jobs and competitiveness. this is just over an hour. >> please welcome administrator mills. [ applause ] >> good morning again. i am delighted to be here as you know. as i said earlier at breakfast, national small business week is maybe my favorite part of the year.

i want to start out though by again for those of you who missed breakfast, i know you were all there by giving my thanks and asking you to join me to give a warm set of thanks to my colleague, my partner in this, our deputy administrator marie johns. thank you. [ applause ] if you think i travel a lot to your regions, marie is out every single week and really doing the work of this agency. this is a ground game we call it. and we have i think really enjoyed meeting all of you out in your respective areas and regions and visiting your businesses. but today it's even more of a pleasure to have you here with us. this is my chance to talk to you

about everything that has been going on in the world of small business. and i think the first place to start is that we're honoring businesses today who really embody the entrepreneurial spirit of america. we have this ability in this country to create cutting edge products. to create services on main street that are new, that are innovative that are special. that customers want. and there are companies that really exemplify this. i have to start with my personal favorite even though i love all of them. the reason is because i had it for breakfast. chibani is a great yogurt. how many of you have tried it? it's just delicious. i'm a particular fan of

strawberry and blueberry, but they're all good. this is a company that took an old kraft yogurt plant in new york and made it a dominant player in the greek yogurt business. it employs more than 1200 workers. that's what we're talking about with job creation. and actually you can innovate in yogurt. right? this is a high tech business, in fact. and now another favorite of mine in boise, idaho, recluse, a innovative motorcycle clutch that is sold to professional racers and weekend enthusiasts around the globe. i would like to be a weekend enthusist, but maybe not so much. how about an entrepreneur like sarah callahan from montana. who saw companies weren't making the right clothing for women who were ranch work and farm work

and other heavy labor so she started her own line. who knows what it's called. red ants pants. it is heavy duty work attire for women. so i could i met a few more of you last night that i wanted to add to this. they said i only had a limited amount of time. so let me just say this to all of you. each and every one of you is a testament to the enduring drive of america's entrepreneurs and to the power of small business to change lives and to transform communities. at the sba, and all across this administration, we're focused on our job, which is to make sure that you have the tools that you

need to grow and to create jobs. people ask me what the sba does, and i like to say that we are the agency that helps you, the small businesses, create two out of every three of the net new jobs in this country. you all probably know the facts, but half the people who work in this country, half of the people, own or work for a small business. that's half the jobs. and as i just said, the entrepreneurs in this country are really the life blood of our economy. so what do we do at the sba to support your business? we focus on what we call the three cs and a d. that's not the grades. actually it's one of the first grades my son got in college, but that was awhile ago. but it's capital, counselling, contracting, and disaster relief. i know that many of you have

worked with us in one of these areas, but the reason i'm taking this moment to talk to all of you and those who are listening is that you might only be getting one part of our services and you're missing out on the rest of the c's and the d's. so we want to make sure that you know about them. access to capital. how many of you have had an sba loan? well, i'm very pleased to tell you that 2011 was a record year for the sba. we did $30 billion in loan guarantees through our great partners, banking institution, and cdcs and others. $30 billion, that's more money into the hands of small businesses through sba loan guarantees than ever before in the history of this agency. [ applause ]

>> and each one of these loans is a story, like one of yours. i was out in michigan, which you know is this terribly hard hit, and i met tom johnson who was a chrysler employee for 15 years. and he had a dream though. he wanted to run his own business. so he looked around and he decided he wanted to become a culvers franchisee. have you ever been to culvers? the frozen yogurt is great. but he didn't have experience. so he was able with our help to get an sba loan. . was very successful and he's now looking for a second location. access to capital, providing that opportunity to grow and start a business is a critical piece of what we do.

but we know we can be more streamlined. and that's one of the things that our whole team around capital access has been working on lead by jeanne hulit. is she here? jeanne and the entire team has been talking to you. a program that we have for small businesses who maybe want to win a big order, but they need to have enough cash and resources on hand to finance the inventory. and we had a program, but it was too cumbersome so we reengineered the program. we implemented it last fall. i'm happy to say we have a 220% increase in the usage of this program, which provides working capital financing. something that you all asked us for since the time i arrived

here. so cap lines. if you haven't looked into that, do. and we not only do our regular 504 program. last year was a record year for our small business investment company program. $2.6 billion went from those small business investment companies into the hands of small business, and we had record amounts that we put out in newly-licensed sbcs. so i really want to thank sean green and thank them for that. we just honored the sbic winner, and i was with him last week in nashville. it's amazing how many small businesses and entrepreneurs are getting their starts with this sbic program. and you probably know some of our brand name successes that started with sbic. oh. that would be apple, fedex,

costco, intel -- pretty good track record, and i know there are some more successes on the way. we also took our sbic program and we launched something called the early stage program because, you know, there's a real valley of death, an absence of capital in the early stages for high-growth entrepreneurs. and we're very pleased we put $200 million a year for the next five years into that program in a competitive process so sbics are applying as we speak. the second "c." federal contracting. i spoke a little bit about it this morning with the administrator for nasa, who has been a great partner, but $100 billion annually is what the sba monitors across all federal agencies that goes in the hands of small business.

and we think of this as a win-win. it's good for the federal government, it's good for taxpayer dollars, it's good for the agencies because they get all of you, the most innovative companies, ideas, and very often, they get the attention of the ceo. and small businesses get what is one of the most important things, revenue. $100 billion. maybe the biggest program for small business across the federal government. last week i was in nashville, i mentioned that. it's a little theme here. and i spoke to about 700 of the department of defense contract buyers and people who help small businesses. and they were there to make sure

that they make their goals for this year. so all of you, we have a whole day tomorrow with some match making and some other activities, real opportunity in our government contracting activity. third "c" is counselling. i always ask this. how many of you have a counselor or long-term mentor that helps you with your business? raise your hands. i always get this. i get like one or two little hands up. every single one of you should have one. because we have data that shows that it makes a difference. more sales, more longevity, more success, hiring more people, and the best news is it's free. we have a network, an extraordinary network, many of whom were honored this morning at breakfast and are here with us from small business development centers from our all

of our clusters all around the country. we reached a million entrepreneurs last year. we counselled a million entrepreneurs. every year. and as i said, with good results. and if you don't have time for this, but you do, go online. 2.5 million entrepreneurs have taken advantage of our online training since 2009. 2 1/2. so we have some terrific programs out there. and i want to make sure that you take that access and opportunity. the "d" is disaster relief. i'm back to nashville again. the last time i was in nashville was two years ago, and it was six days after that horrible