rates. united states we're borrowing at historically very low rates even though we have a big debt. so i mean, we're getting kind of loose in how we talk about these things. the economists, frankly don't know the how this works. they say you shouldn't have more than 90% gdp to debt ratio or 3%. but there's no real theory that those numbers are founded on. they're kind of pulling them from historical research and other things. so i just think -- any comments you have to that. but things are not as simple as the narrative is making it out to be. >> thank you, stephen. a final question, if you please, in the back. >> the thank you. karen johnston, american university. miss tauscher i very much share some of your concerns. you mentioned the problem of public's level of interest in information on foreign policy issues. but i think there's a missing link here and that link is the role of the media in providing

accurate and sometimes any information about some of the foreign policy issues that are of great concern to you and some of the other foreign policy experts and people in government, and so seen from your perspective, not perhaps just you but from the others, what can be done to strengthen this link because there are obviously problems in the business of news, the problems of differentiating between news and opinion, the fact that people now in this media landscape self-select the kind of news sources that they will have which does affect their opinions and views on foreign policy issues. so what can be done? because once the american public is given, informed information about issues, they can give informed decisions and be part of the foreign policy debate. i mean, this has been done with

james fish kin's research on direct democracy and even the program international policy and attitudes. providing information about the defense budget and how americans see the defense budget. so what can we do. >> thank you. i'm going to just give panelists one minute to respond each. i will start on my left with the heather conley. >> basal, on the debt issue, i mean again, i'm very something. we should be engaged but i understand how ruinous the politics are. the t.a.r.p. program, something like 40 out of the 87 banks that is received t.a.r.p. funds were international predominantly european banks. in some ways we're already doing this. i think support is required but i appreciate it's political suicide here in washington to do it. stephen on your question of the simplicity that we talk about this, you're absolutely right. in some respects, i think what we're seeing is a balance sheet recession, and this is why i think some of the differences in

approach that europe has had, the austerity driven efforts has actually made things worse. my concern is the divergence of economic, if economies in europe where you have germany pulling away really from the rest of europe economically. how do you sustain a more balanced economic union when you have one member -- if you took germany out of the statistics that trade balance number would not be so good. it's skewing because it's in such -- i think it's such a different place economically. that's thing we need to watch very carefully. it's not so simple. it the role of the media, think tanks are very much called upon to talk, talk, about what we see and sometimes you feel like what's the sound bite? you're trying to analyze the second. it's very hard to get long thoughtful big picture again. pullback what's important about this story. the 24/7 insatiable media.

i'm not sure, i always help the story. i try to provide context but they're looking for that sound bite. sometimes you give 20 minutes of blah, blah, blah and they pull pull three sentences out. i didn't mean it to sound like that. even for think thanks, it's really, really difficult. and in the administration it's even more challenging than we out here in the think thank community. >> we have time for two more sound bites. >> stephen, i couldn't agree more. i would just tell you that don't forget i'm speaking for myself. this isn't a question of who gets eliminated from the eurozone. it's a question who gets added. welcome to turkey. this is a growth problem. this is a growth problem, not a debt problem. you're right. it's about growth and if you added turkey, maybe poland to the eurozone then the rest of the problems i think would solve themselves very quickly. to my friend from american university, let me say unless we can package foreign policy and national security around "dancing with the stars" or some

kind of you know, amazing race" or some kind of snake ridden crocodile ridden swimming up the potomac -- i have some volunteers for that one, the american people are just not interested. they're tired. they're scared. they're -- they want to be entertained. they want to have something to divert them. these all look like problems to them and look like problems that is somebody else hired should solve. there's charlie rose. there's so many things out there that they can watch. they don't watch them. >> we need to jump on the shark foreign policy. >> yes at the prime minister's question. >> two thoughts. one of them, slightly different point than ellen's on the economic issues. i think the issue is confidence. and the reason french interest rates are higher than british ones even though the french debt might be slightly smaller is because france is in the

eurozone. that imposes a risk on france that the uk with coherence of control over its own economy and currency doesn't face. japan, people have confidence in japan. and in the u.s. they don't have confidence in europe. and in europe, it is some states, not all. many are doing very well, but it is some states that are in unsustainable situations. that is something that could have been nipped in the bud and dealt with a couple of years ago. but wasn't. and the problem has grown and grown and grown as a result. and it can still be dealt with, but it requires some choices that thus far, europe is notal to make. i would just say one of those choices is to euro bondize the debt that's denominated in euros and then have a collective process for issuing euro denominated debt. that would be a huge transformation of the way things look now. is that going to happen? i don't think so. >> we did that in the '70s when i was a small trade with new

york city. the template exists. it's one, two, three. you add a big premium onto the interest rate and you create a junk bond but by the way, you have a lot of people that want to buy it because at this time, i think we'd all buy it, even 8, 9, 10%. >> to close on a controversial note, i actually think that voters and i think about students that i've seen in the last few years are better informed and more engaged internationally than when i was a students or then 20 some years ago. people have access to all sorts of information, more easily through online media, social media, through television. through travel. and there's a lot more travel going on. people are a lot better informed than they have been in the past. now the quality of the information and the quality of the judgment, people are going to make up their own minds.

but ultimately, i guess my gut feeling is that people know their own interests. and they -- they know something, they have a feeling about it. they can speak their mind. they can vote in the categories that ellen described very amusingly. but i think we're actually not in as ill informed state as it may often seem. the issue comes down really to one of leadership because it's going to require every level, whether it's a city, state, federal, congress, president, whomever, the willingness to use your best judgment, make some hard decisions, even if it means that you're not going to be very popular the next time around. that's what you need people to stand up for when they go into public office. slightly different take than looking at the information that people have, it's really what

the leaders come back with and say, this is the best we're going to be able to do for these reasons. i support this and i'm going to do this. and face the consequences, which is hard, but i think that's what's missing in the equation. people i think basically do -- they know a lot more than they used to and they're angry about it and they need some people to stand up and give them something to believe in. >> perhaps that's what second terms are for, right. >> you know, it's kind of funny because if you think back on every second term presidency for last however many years, they've all been better than the first. >> on that note, i would like to thank the panel for coming and thank you all for staying.

>> here's a look at some of our programming today across the c-span networks. coming up at 11 eastern, the brookings institution looks at the international role of the united states. topics will include the effects of rapid globalization as well as new security threats. watch that live on our companion network c-span. meanwhile, today on c-span2, we're showing you several portions of the recent phone hacking scandal in britain. that's known as the leveson inquiry. this gets under way at 12:30 p.m. eastern, again on c-span2. >> and coming up tonight, a debate between the candidates running in wisconsin's gubanatorial recall election. scott walker is being challenged by milwaukee's democratic mayor tom barrett. watch that live tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. a look at arlington national cemetery here. join us memorial day on monday

for the annual remembrance ceremony. president obama is expected to address the crowd and our live coverage starts around 10:50 a.m. eastern, monday, on c-span. >> and later today and later in the day, another ceremony takes place at the street nam veterans memori memorial. we'll have that live for you as well starting at 1:00 p.m., also on c-span. >> this is c-span3 with politics and public affairs programming throughout the week and every weekend, 48 hours of people and events telling the american story on american history tv. get our schedules and see past programs at our websites. and you can join in the conversation on social media site sites. >> next tus national guard and reserve leadership testifies about proposed national guard cuts and ways in which the operational reserve will be used

as the troop drawdown continues in afghanistan. the senate appropriations subcommittee on defense hosted the hearing. defense secretary leon pa net at that time last month pulled back from proposed budget cuts that would have reduced the force by 5,000 people and 200 aircraft. secretary panetta said that he will restore some of the cuts in the budget proposal sent to congress. including at least 2,200 guard positions. this runs just under two hours. >> national guard and the reserve components. from the national guard, i'd like to welcome chief of the national guard bureau general mckinley. the director of the army national guard, general ingram, and the director of the air national guard guard, general wyatt. our witnesses from the reserve include the chief of the armory reserve, general stults, the chief of the navy reserve,

admiral dirk debbing, the commander of the marine corps reserve, general stephen hummer, and the chief of the air force reserve, general charles stenner. and i'd like to thank you all for joining us today. as the committee reviews the budget for the reserve components. this year's budget proposal significant force structure changes for the air national guard, reducing end strength bill 5100 bullets and aircraft inventory by 134 aircraft. this proposal has come under intense scrutiny from the members of congress, the council of governors, and maniage utant generals and i'd like to hear from you on how involved you were in the deliberative process that preceded the force structure announcement and what input you were asked to give.

>> in addition over the last several years, the guard and reserve have made important changes as their transition from a strategic to an operational reserve. >> this shift requires you to have deployment ready units available at all times. as we draw down our military forces in afghanistan, the department will need to figure out how to best utilize this new operational reserve. many, many challenges remain for the guard and reserve. reserves and their families like the support network provided for active duty installations. so it is important that our reserve families get the support they need during the deployments and as reservists transition back to civilian life.

the guard and the reserve still face significant equipment shortfalls. congress has provided additional equipment funding for the guard and reserve in each of the last 32 years because year after year the president's budget fails to sufficiently fund reserve components. i'm certain that the witnesses here this morning agree that without this additional funding, our reserve components would be woefully underskipped. it is our duty to our men and women of the guard and reserves who are called on to deploy in harm's way just like their active duty counterparts to make certain they're adequately trained, adequately equip theed. so gentlemen, i look forward to hearing your perspective on these issues. and working with you this year in support of our guardsmen and

reservists. i would like to thank all of you for your testimony this morning. your full statements will be made part of the record. we'll begin with our hearing with the panel of national guard. but i'd like to call upon mr. alexander because our vice chairman has been slightly delayed. he has just called to say he'll be coming in shortly. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and i'll condense my remarks to welcome to -- welcome, gentlemen. we look forward to your comments. reequipping the guard is one of the biggest challenges facing the department of defense. i think our chairman's outlined that very adequately. and the president's proposed budget doesn't adequately support the guard and reserve. each of us in our states are very proud of the role that our men and women have played. our army guards 278th armored

cavalry regiment has been deployed twice. many are serving in afghanistan and iraq flying c-5 missions, running airfield operations, installing fiberoptic communications and getting wounded in harm's way. so we're grateful to them and grateful to the efforts that have been made to modernize the guard and we've seen great changes in what men and women who join the guard expect to do over the last 10, 15 years. we need to be responsive to the changed conditions and the changed expectations of guard members. so i'll be listening closely to the testimony and i appreciate very much your service and your being here today. thank you, mr. chairman. >> may i now call upon the vice chairman, senator cochran. >> thank you very much for convening the hearing. i'm pleased to join you and other senators in welcoming our panel of distinguished witnesses

this morning. we thank you for your service to our nation helping protect the safety and security of our citizens and our interests around the world. thank you. >> may i recognize general mckinley. >> chairman inouye and ranking member cochran and members of the committee, thank you. it's an honor and privilege to be here today with my two directors bud wyatt on my right and bill engraham on my left as well as the other reserve chiefs. we have a very close affiliation with each other. it's a pleasure and honor again to testify before you. >> i wanted to take this opportunity as i always do to thank you all for your dedication to the soldiers and airmen that we represent. bud and bill will make some brief statements after i do, both of them distinguished former adjutants general. so they will have unique perspectives on the issues and concerns of our soldiers in the state active duty status and in

title 32 status. we find ourselves, obviously, in the midst of constraint budgets and tough decisions, no doubt, we must all curb spending. but should not at the expense of our security. that is why i must tell that you sequestration would hollow the force, substantially and devastate our national security. it would result in further severe reductions to the national guard, reserve and the active component. the national guard senior already facing difficult budget cuts as you've alluded to. cuts that impact equipment and personnel. further reductions would significantly limit the guard's ability to the function as an operational force, decrease the total forces' overall capability and reduce departments' capacity to protect the homeland and respond to emergencies. the national guard is a more ready, more capable and more rapidly deployable force than ever in our nation's history as all of you know so well from your visits back home.

we have and will continue to answer the call for mobilizations and volunteer support of our combat cannot commanders. today more than 50% of our guardsmen have combat experience. as i apart-time force, the national guard is a proven, affordable defense option for america. during a time of contained budgets, we should continue to be used as an operational force to ensure the nation is getting the most defense capability at the lowest cost. as an operational force, the national guard is ideally suited to meet the new strategic guidance, to meet steady state demands and act as a strategic hedge for unforeseen world events. at any time the national guard can and been augment the active duty both the army and the air force to surge and regenerate forces. the nation also counts on the national guard to protect the homeland. your home states, commonwealths, territories and the district of columbia.

the national guard is the best and primary military force to respond to complex catastrophes and contributes to our security by protecting our air space and borders. while representing only a small portion of the guard's response capability, last year, federal and state authorities called on one of our 57 civil support teams to use their unique weapons of mass destruction assessment skills almost twice a day. every day in our hometowns. the national guard is crucial to our governors. over the past three years, guardsmen and women responded to an unprecedented string of disasters. are poised and ready to provide that support again. according to fema administrator craig fugate, speed is critical to domestic response. he has stated recently at the national governors association conference that aviation assets need to be organic to the guard. other options may not provide the same speed and capacity. we're obviously located in over

3,000 communities across the country. and the national guard is positioned to respond quickly and efficiently and work very close with our civilian first responders to any domestic emergency. our dual role requires that we continue to improve the quality and quantity of our equipment. the national guard reserve equipment account has been and will continue to be crucial to that endeavor. it is vital to the guard as i'm sure it is to the other guard chiefs as it provides the ability to meet requirements including homeland defense needs and legacy equipment. after 11 years of war, we continue to work closely with the united states army and air force to reset our force to ensure our equipment levels meet the defense strategy. as citizen soldiers and airmen, guardsmen are able to blend their unique combination of military training, civilian acquired skills to provide innovative approaches to support our nation's security strategy. the state partnership program is a cornerstone of the new strategic guidance and

demonstrates the guard's versatility. our partnership with more than 460 foreign countries has strengthened their military capacity and competence as well as our alliance. most recently demonstrated in chicago with our nato summit. national guard partner nations have reduced the demand on u.s. forces, 22 partner nations have provided 11,000 troops to afghanistan. and 40 partner nations have provided over 31,000 personnel in support of u.n. peacekeeping operations. this year, we will celebrate 20 years of the state partnership program. and we look forward to continuing to work with theage utants general, the governors of our states, territories, commonwealths and the district to continue this innovative low cost small footprint approach to security cooperation for the future. each year, we continue to adapt our skills to better serve the nation's strategy. that is why this year we are instituting a threat based resource model for our counter drug activities that will direct funding to states pressing the

most pressing narcotics threats to our communities. the breadsth of our skills allows us to take on new and emerging missions. i would like to address our most important asset as you have so aptly stated. our soldiers and airmen are the reason the guard has been so successful over the last decade. indeed for the last 375 years. today, your national guard is the most capable and competent in history, and that is because we are recruiting the highest quality soldiers and airmen. our noteworthy enlistment and retention numbers since september 11th, 2001 are proof that they've joined because they want to be used and expect to be used. this dedication not be possible without the support of our families, communities, and the employers. that's why i'm dedicated to working closely with the army and the air force to provide our service members, their families and employers with the best and most effective support available. thanks for the opportunity, mr. chairman to appear before you today. i'd like to ask my wingman, bud wyatt to speak followed by bill ingram.

>> that i remember inknow which and senator cochran, thank the committee for your support for the men and women of the air national guard guard. i'd like to open with a bre review of the events of 2011 before looking to the future of the air national guard. it your guard airmen continue to make significant contributions to our nation's defense both here at home and around the globe. last year, guard airmen filled approximately 54,000 requests for manpower, 91% of these requests were filled by volunteers. air national guard's responsiveness and adaptability was clearly demonstrated a year ago when on 17 march, 2011, as the united stat united nations passed a no flay zone over libya, air national guard kc-135s from the 134th air refueling wing tennessee and the

167th aerial refueling wing alaska were diverted en route to operating bases. these airmen began flying operational missions in support of operation odd zi dawn clearly demonstrating that the air national guard is accessible and ready 0 serve. last year airmen spent over half a million man days performing is domestic civil support missions a third of it on state active duty including assisting local authorities with ordinance disposal, helping with security at special events such as the boston marathon done as state expense, not federal expense, and helping victims of floods and other natural disasters and helping to save lives by assisting in search and rescue efforts. in addition to supporting is civil authorities, guard airmen spent an additional million man days including helping to defend u.s. air space, assisting u.s. customs in border protection on

our southwest border and supporting america's counter drug program. your national guard air splen spent countless volunteer area hours in local communities aiding fellow airmen, soldiers, sailors and marines through yellow ribbon and wounded warrior projects and volunteering for public service projects such as youth challenge and habitat for humanity. congressional funding through the equipment account, has been essential to the air national guard fulfilling both its federal and state missions. air national guard f-16 and a-10 squadrons deployed to afghanistan with lightning generation 4 targeting pods for the first time as a direct result of ngria funding. fy 2011 funds were used to procure and install equipment for an infrastructure range allowing cyberunits to develop tactics and procedures for cyberwarfare without disrupting networkses used to accomplish day to day missions.

while the budget has challenges forces the air national guard, it also has opportunities and we adjusted our priorities to take full advantage of those opportunities. the air national guard's priorities in preparing this budget were, number one, posture the air national guard by aligning force size and composition to be flexible,age jill and ready with special attention to new missions such as the mc-12 and remotely piloted aircraft. number two, maintaining a combat ready force able to quickly surge and integrate seamlessly into joint operations and number three, repairing units broken by the previous base closure and realignment process and recent programming changes. in conclusion, mr. chairman, thank you. i'm grateful to be here. i look forward to answering any questions that you and the committee may have for me. >> thank you very much, sir. >> thank you very much, general. general ingram. >> chairman inouye, ranking member cochran, members of the subcommittee, it's an honor to

be with you today representing the 358,000 citizen soldiers of the army national guard. the patriotism and sacrifice of these soldiers, their families and their employers is a source of great pride for all americans. we're now the best manned, best trained, best equipped and most experienced force in our 375-year history. and it's congressional support for the army national guard that has contributed to our transformation and enhanced our readiness. as a result, the army national guard is a ready and reliable forcefully accessible for contingencies both at home and abroad. we provide equipped, trained soldiers giving the president and the governors maximum flexibility in times of crisis. we're an operational force and a full partner with the active army. since september 11, 2001, the army national guard has