mothers who was courageous enough to take the initiative and calling me saying my son has come back from the hideouts, but he -- i don't know when he will leave the house. can you make it now, it was 9:00 at night, i live in islamabad and the mother was calling me from another town which is four hours drive from islamabad. and i said, it's really dangerous right now. at that time the mitttary operation was just over. i said definitely i'll be there with you and we'll be having my breakfast with you around 8:30 in the morning. and she had to keep her son until 8:30. this is really difficult. so when i reached there, i entered her house. i sat with the four sisters, the boy and the mother on the floor

of the kitchen. it was like a muddy house and i sat with them on the floor. a cup of tea along with the bread was in front of us. and i was just talking to this boy. the boy was like -- was shocked because the mother did not tell him that there would be this modern lady coming from islamabad. when we go to theville js and i'm meeting these boys for the first time, we hide our face like this. and this is actually we feel that we are secure. so i was in this situation. i just sat with him on the floor and started talking to him. he was very shy. but one thing that i could notice in his eyes was very strange. there was so much sadness.

the eyes were really brank. there was something in him that was really disturbing. then i started discussing with him, why did you join these people? are you happy? and he was just looking at me like this. initially like very blank. and then he said, why are you asking me this question? where are you when we were going through hell? and where were you when we had no food to eat? you know the food that i can offer you now, i could not even provide this to my family. ics you got the money for this. he said, of course, that's not the only reasons that these boys join these forces. the story is very long. i convinced the boy and discussed it with the mother. i feel if the mothers are not

supportive, the boys and of course, the boys specially those who are with extremists who dare not come to a woman like me. so the mother had her trust in me. she transmitted that trust, of course -- we tried to transmit that trust through the mother to the boy. and the boy he said, he agreed that he definitely want to go back to normal life. this was the beginning of the e deregularization process that we wanted to initiate in that area. that was the first boy. we tried to help him. we tried to bring him out from that situation. tried to transform his attitude towards life as well as the way they were being convinced. and the waco ronnic verses and

islamic teaching have been misinterpreted to transform them into jihadist into suicidal attackers. nowhere in the koran it says that suicide is -- you can go for suicidal attack. it's forbidden in islam. similarly, jihad can actually take place in certain situations. but when you ask these boys, what is about jihad say? killing of the infidel, who's the infidel? pakistan, security forces. but whysome because they are siding with those who want to harm us. it takes time to convince these people that this is not the real islam. islam means peace. and it takes months and sometimes weeks and sometimes months to convince and to transform the mind set and

particularly like those who have gone through a lot. we were able to transform not only this boy, but this was just the beginning and of course, we are now have placed them very well in the society. the most difficult and challenging part for us even today is to the acceptance of the community. the real integration of these boys back in their own communities. and we have to build a better, i would say trust with the communities so that they accept them. but thanks god so far we have been able to take back 79 boys back to their communities. have placed them well and they are working in different, i will say places earning decent livelihood for themselves and are really product i have citizens. have become very productive citizens. >> that's a powerful.

>> it's amazing. because it gives hope that there is a possibility to make that process reversible. it is inspiring because, you know, from the other side you always deal with the radicalization and extremism and how to cope. maybe part of coping is preventing and doing thinks like you have done and others. this is really acting like an angel doing. because it is -- it gives us hope that there is ways to change things not om by force, which is very important. >> thank you. >> i think prevention is better than cure. so i think before everything -- i think we need to prevent it from happening again. >> i know there are huge efforts among the women that are here.

you represent only half the women that are here for this week long meeting that we have. and several are working on the school and peace education et cetera. so there are so many ways that women are working on this. i want to open this up to questions. but first i want to introduce to us all from the christian science monitor. the monitor is so well known. i don't have to tell you much about it in terms of the stand not just for international news, but for human rights and conflict resolution. i appreciate particularly john the after the nobel prize the fact that we were willing to give that coverage that was so explicit and so coverage to that. i think through the years -- you may have been the first person, the first reporter who interviewed us when we started -- or maybe when i came here to create the women in

public policy program. do you? would you like to go to the mic and do the first question and others who would like to join. but, please, i'd love to actually hear, you've been sitting there like a reporter with your pad and your pen. do you have any reflections on what you've just heard? >> i can't think without a pen. thank you very much ambassador hunt. i want to recognize moore who won the gold medal for a wondserful article she did for the monitor in depth article on peace building. so i know you knew liz betd. >> yes. >> and gina is very much in elizabeth's shoes. that kind of a reporter. >> thank you. thank you. will uh-huh turn it toward -- >> i just wanted to pick up on

the point about this idea of -- there's so much -- so much effort goes into peacemaking. and as rebecca said, we've got to -- you've got to make peace and then you've got to keep peace and then you've got to build peace. but it doesn't take much to have that cycle of violence returned. something can break it very quickly. and you've identified radicalization and the attempt to deradicalize young people. i wonder if maybe the general could tell us about this, too. is there anything that you've ever hit upon that helps to deglamorize war in the mine of especially young men. we know that that's something that they're attracted to. have you had any thoughts about that? >> let's just open that up to anybody. anyone who would like to address

that. >> i need some clarification for what you've been asking. >> it seems to me the whole idea of peace building is a rather -- it's complex. it's slow. you described a kind of a knitting together of societies. it doesn't take much attraction to ruin all of the work that's done slowly to build peace. i just wonder if the general could address this. in watching people come through a penal system, is there anything that happens in which you can see their thought changing so they support the idea of building society rather than taking up a gun and doing the glamorous or the romantic

thing in their minds? >> i think it begins and ends in education. that's the point. if we have failed to that point and brought it to that situation, when they are in facilities or in community treatment, there is need to try and find agentives. the first to be able to take their aggression or frustration and then to give them some new skills and abilities. how to deal with tension.

for different ways for crying and theater. everything that will be a replacement for that need to come. sometimes they just want to be shown to be influential. you can you can try to channelize it to a positive way. >> i think violence is culture. and as well as peace. for example, south sudan. we are very much concerned about the peace culture in terms of including it -- >> education.

>> for students. >> education again. it's education. >> our countries where people suffer from injustices. and therefore they will tell you have been asking like in south sudan. he wanted our independence. and it was not there. we were subjected to oppressive regimes in sharia islamic laws and all this. there was no way for people to pick up arms and say if it doesn't work with the dialogue, we are going to tell you we are strong. that's why i'm saying it was with a cause but again violence usually is not good. that's why we hurried to say tell them you have oppressed me too much. but i'm not for war. i want to move into peacetime. again, when it comes to the answers, i think that's where your question is, you mean

people need democracies. i guess if you need them, you need your space. you need your rights. if you open them. you open a space for people to say i have an opportunity now to go on and fight. she mentioned the issue of peace education. if i go back a little bit, if you allow me on the culture in south sudan, for example. we have our cultural way of peacemaking and peacekeeping. but because we were subjected to defending ourselves, then you find the youngsters into the culture of violence and being angry or reacting. now what we are doing with the peace building is to ensure that they are educated more. the peace culture is there and con sal dated in such a way that their mind thinks of peace, of stability, of development, more

than resorting to war. and it works for me a lot now in the ministry of general education that we want to include that in the curriculum. so that peace education is part of the curriculum. so that we move out of this thinking about joining those who want to rebel but those who are working for peace. it takes a lot. i grow with my colleagues. peace education keep on working on it, consolidating, building it, making it strong. let them sing it. let them think about it and let them follow the nonviolent approach. we need that for the generation to come. >> it just struck as you pass this conversation down the road and here we have a spectacular woman leader from sudan and then from south sudan. and you all were at war, your countries were at war for so many decades. so many deaths and then came back to this peace agreement with the referendum six years later and then a succession.

the struggle between these two peoples and here you are. you're like sisters and i want to personally applaud you and say that the strength of your coalition is an example for the whole world. [ applause ] >> i'm a student at the mpa second two-year program here at harvard kennedy school. i just wanted to thank everybody for sharing your experiences. my question is you told us about the experience of being in jordan and the rockets hitting.

i was wondering how -- as an afghan woman, i'm concerned about how the peace process is going to affect my fate and the fate of my daughter if i have any in the future because something that i'm seeing sa that the peace process may involve a couple of compromises. one of which might be with regards to women's issues and women's rights in afghanistan. we hear again and again yes, the constitution would be followed. but with so much uncertainty with regards to the peace deal and how it's being taken care of and the afghan government is not even in the picture and how you as a woman who has been in the middle of all of this with leading a network of women with 80 women organizations and 5,000 personnel across the country, what is your understanding and analysis of this peace deal and how hopeful i should be as a woman. >> thank you very much. very interesting question.

at the same time very difficult. very technical. very challenging. yes, thank you. i was looking for the word. well, the peace process, yes, has started. and the peace process is something that has come based on the recommendation -- we got together and we recommended that we want to go for a peace process. and then on november 2011, again, we say how the peace process should go. but i don't think woman rights will be sacrificed. because we are not the woman of 2001. this is what i have been saying

in the conference. we had our green scarves and we were meeting a number of policymakers. foreign ministers, delegations, telling them that we want to be part of the -- part of the development of our country. we will be making mistakes for sure. but we will learn from our mistakes. where i have seen those woman now, i'm just telling you don't worry about your right that will be negotiation. we will not let it happen.

>> we had a kennedy school grad and we put together 20 meetings in washington and they were featured on the news hour et cetera at the pentagon, white house, et cetera. it was striking to me when one of the women said, look. she was being asked on congress by a senator, what are we going to do? you can't have the taliban at these talks. >> she said, look, these are our family. if my arm is hurting me, if my arm is wounded, if my arm is diseased, i don't cut off my arm. put them at the table and in three days there will be a

difference. that's something that we have a hard time understanding and imagining. >> thank you. i'm from bangladesh attending this program. my question if i find it a little bit awkward, the term i think the freedom fighter i don't know last time when i heard it. the fist time i think i heard it i knew you used this term for the first term today after a long many years. growing up in the ' 0s in school time this is the term all around. so all of a sudden i came to see

that term. i would like to see why the evolution of this term freedom fighter, how it's transformed and what made it convert into revolutionary or mercenaries and why is a freedom fighter and why the taliban or hamas in palestine are not? >> let me make sure i understand your question. i'll restate it very differently. how do you use a term like freedom fighter which is so positive with one situation and

then you talk about other groups as terrorists. >> yes. >> is that in short? >> well, my understanding is i call someone freedom fighter who is fighting for something which is taken away or which he or she thinks that wrongly she's not allowed to enjoy. and by that definition, i tend to believe that most of the terrorists who are now being branded as that they also have a cause that they're fighting for. but who don't call them freedom fighters. >> yes. >> so i would like to see what the the difference between this freedom fighter. what is the bottom line that we'll tall them freedom fighter or not call them freedom fighters. >> yes. thank you for asking that. i am going to see what comments you all have because you're living in the situation. i can answer in terms of in my own mind, but, please.

>> if someone is fighting, expressing, demanding their rights because they have been robbed of their rights. that's also how i understand it. i use it very proudly because i don't want to go into details with the situation of south sudan as i said, earlier, it was clear. the injustices were very clear for south sudanese. the lows were enforced on us. we were never given time to develop ourselves and we are starting it now. that's why today when we talk about the construction and rebuilding we say that there's nothing to reconstruct. there is nothing to rebuild.

we are starting fresh. all that was happening was our resources were being robbed, were being siphoned. even our oil which was discovered in south sudan was being taken through a pipe to be taken to a refinery outside there. foogting for a cause, but you are not fighting for the sake of fighting and killing somebody else. you say no, i will not allow you. it is a human right. is that if i were talking like ten years ago, you would have said, you are just like any other terrorist. you are just trying to kill

others. you have no cause. but today we have accepted to sit at the negotiating table, discuss the issues and we sat and sat and sat for years until we mansioned to reach the process of elections and referendum and independence and the new country has been declared, we said, fine. we don't want to fight anybody else. so that's what it means to be a freedom fighter. there are other groups that would want to fight for the sake of imposing. it's just the other side of the coin. if somebody -- it's the other side of the coin. for me it was fighting for my rights. on the other side, somebody was bombarding our villages, were coming to take our rights and these are the people who want to encroach on your right. so they are the ones who want to fight.

what is it? why do you want to abduck children if i go about to what you were saying? these young people who are supposed to go to school. hr supposed to grow, it is their right. think go and they're inducted or constricted into a movement or an activity which at the end of the day the children or young people are asked to go and commit suicide -- throw bombs, suicidal attacks. this to me is negative. you must be thinking towards a solution. i think we tried that.

with transformation, with peace building, with development. >> and i agree with everything you said, and i can also very much i think sympathize if your point of view in that question because clearly there are very few people who say, and i'm a terrorist, you know. others are calling them terrorists. you said, people would have been calling you a terrorist. and then after the fact those terrorists become freedom fighter or the freedom fighters become terrorists in the eyes of other people. i will tell you that it is striking to me that the name of elizabeth newfort was called

this evening because elizabeth worked in bosnia, she died in iraq. it's saying that intervention should have happened much, much saern. what do we mean by intervention? we mean bombs and bullets. and if you stand back, and i was advocating for that as ambassador. i was there '93 to '97 in vienna advocating hard as hard as you could inside the white house for military intervention. what does that make me? when you get to the point is least violation option is military intervention, what a failure. what a failure. and we should never be