mentioned towning hall five or six times. the way he's presented it, it was a machine in one state, a republican state for about 30 years, 100 years ago. he stood for emblem attic of the democratic party and the way it works with where that's not true. like specifically, if you look at institutions like the democratic party in wisconsin, minnesota. a coalition of farm bureaus and farm group that is came together and formed it. and then they -- formed a coalition in the late 20s with labor. and even to this day, the democratic party is still the farm labor party in minnesota. >> we are trying to balance out the show. we have a liberal gift coming on next. jay costa as you mentioned is a

writer for the liberal publication. tell us what you think about what the caller said about what he thinks the democratic party represents. the farmers, people themselves not just big business. >> well, look, i think i would make two points. the first is regarding the book itself. i don't make any claims to be writing without with a point of view. anyone who claims to be objective with a capital o is trying to sell you something. i don't make claims like that. the point of the book is not to argue liberal versus conservative. the point of the book is to talk about republicanism with a small r and the extent to which this political party, which claims to be a small r republican party actually lives up to its rhetoric. and, you know, look, i appreciate as a conservative,

liberals aren't going to buy the argument. the flip side being that, you know, as someone who's not wedded to the democratic party, perhaps i'm in a position to critique it, and i try to do so in a responsible way. and frankly, if the caller read the book, he would be surprised in a lot of respects. the book is not what you would expect in other words. that being said, talking about tammany hall. why have i mentioned it as many times as i have, well, you know, he's right in a lot of respects. tammany hall was run out of office in 1993. it was destroyed by franklin roosevelt himself. that's what roosevelt threw his weight very subtly, but very clearly behind fiorello laguardia, to install him as mayor. he was a liberal. then to make sure laguardia had access to the patronage from the

works progress administration. the point of mentioning tammany hall, even as roosevelt destroyed tammany hall, he imported many respects into the national government, in a lot of respects, that's the way the government works. talk about organized labor. the problem that i have with organized labor, it's not a problem with labor itself, but labor is an interest group within the democratic party. the argument in my book, when it comes to choosing between the public good and the interest of organized labor. the democrats are going to choose the latter. talk about the farmers, the farmers, again, have been in interest with the country. but that doesn't change the fact that harry truman after he won election in 1948. he and his advisers looked carefully the returns from the great plains. he did very well in the farm belt. and so, thus was created, the brennan plan. which was a naked political effort to buy off the farmers of this country.

something that harry truman tried to do. so look. that's sort of the point of the book. the democratic party increasingly uses the powers of government to bring new groups into its coalition or to pay off client groups. this is something that's been happening since the 1930s, and it's something that every democratic leader has been obliged to follow. >> jay, the author of "spoiled rotten." how politics of patronage corrupted the once noble democratic party and now threatens the american republic. he's a staff writer at the weekly. and writes a twice weekly column. prior to that, he was at real clear politics writing the horse race blog. covering everything from politics to the economy. to what's going on in washington. joining us this morning from pittsburgh, pennsylvania. thanks so much, jay. >> thanks for having me, it's been a pleasure. >> this holiday week with, we're featuring some of american history tv's weekend programs on

c-span three. over the next several hours, we'll focus on the presidency and the civil rights. first, a discussion of the civil right rights of dwight eisenhower, truman. then president kennedy. >> sunday on q & a. >> i think the problem with with walter cronkite, people see him only as the evuncular friendly man. but there was another side of him that wanted to be the best, he was obsessed with the ratings. he's probably the fiercest competitor i've ever written about. and i've written about presidents and generals. cronkite's desire to be the best was very pronounced. >> best selling author douglas

brinkley on his new biography of long time cbs news averager walter cronkite, sunday on c-span. next, a conference on the presidency and civil rights hosted by the john f. ken dpi presidential library and museum. this panel looks at the intern of japanese americans in world war ii. the desegregation of the armed forces. this is an hour and 20 minutes. >> good afternoon, i'm david ferio. it's a pleasure to welcome you this afternoon. this conference is on the presidency and civil rights. as you know the national archive is is charged with preserving archives to the most important documents, the records we safeguard are part of the backbone, important pieces of the story of the american journey. they contain accounts of heroism, tragedy, moments of

pride and moments of shame of sacrifices that men and women have made to defend our country, and to extend basic human rights to all of our citizens. this library and 12 others like it around the country contain the records of the presidents dating back to 1929, when herbert hoover lived in the white house. they're part of the national archives' vast holdings that tell the story of america. our holdings also include the charters of freedom, the declaration of independence, the constitution, and the bill of rights, which are located in the rotunda of our main building in washington, but we also have 12 billion more pages of documents, not to mention millions of photographs, maps, charts, and billions of electronic records and artifacts that are part of the national archives. you don't have to read and study many of them to realize that the story of america is a story of people struggling to achieve the rights promised in the charters of freedom or protesting because

they have been denied those rights. it is of course the constitution and its amendments the presidents have used to underpin major actions and upon which the united states supreme court has based so many landmark decisions involving civil and human rights. the list is daunting, and franklin roosevelt outlawed discrimination through the fair employment practices committee. harry truman ordered an end to segregation in the armed forces during the historic election year of 1948. dwight eisenhower sent army troops to central high and little rock so african-american students could enroll. john kennedy put the effort behind the effort to integrate the university of alabama. lyndon johnson pushed congress relentlessly to enact the civil rights act of 1964, and the voting rights act of 1965. this city has played a pivotal role in the struggles as the

cradle of our democracy is one of the centrist abolitionist movement and more recently at the heart of the debate over how best to desegregate public schools to comply with the historic 1954 supreme court decision in brown versus the topeka board of education. these struggles for civil rights have not always been easy. when they occur, they often revolve around the constitution, the rights that define us as a ee zpr nation have always been secured. the first ten amendments to the constitution are known as the bill of rights. they spell out the personal rights and freedoms that are guaranteed to every american, including freedom of speech, religion, and the press, the right to petition the government, the right to bear arms and the right to due process of law. most of the later amendments sought to explicitly extend

rights granted in the constitution itself, to individuals who had been excluded from full participation in our democracy, when the constitution was adopted in 1787. three post civil war amendments abolished slavery, make former slaves u.s. citizens and grant them the right to vote. the 19th amendment grants women the right to vote and another grants access to the ballot by 18-year-olds. we may view these founding documents as timeless but the government they envisioned and that we inherited was not inevitable. it required the devotion of citizens like you and me, a national respect for the rule of law, and the wise exercise of power by our elected leaders, who are held accountable by we the people. as i mentioned before, the holdings of the national archives chronicle our nation's efforts to live out the ideals expressed in the charters of freedom. they document president abraham lincoln's war time proclamation that emancipated the slaves to the signing a century later of

the civil rights act of 1964 that sought to end legalized segregation. many of our documents are housed throughout the country. in this building, in one of our regional archives in waltham and in 42 libraries and regional archives around the country. understanding the stories surrounding the actions by our president helps us give context to martin luther king's observation that the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice. it bends not on its own, dr. king said, but because each of us in our own way puts our hand on that arc and bend it in the direction of a more just world. i'm proud the kennedy library is hosting today's conference and recognize and thank all of those who have put together this terrific program. i'm not allowed to say this in public especially in the presence of my friends from the fdr library, but this is, having grown up in beverly, massachusetts, this is my

favorite presidential library. [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> i cannot think of a better day or a better place to mark presidents' day. i want to personally thank all of our speakers, many of whom have travelled far, including one from south africa, to be with us here for these proceedings. and a special welcome to those watching us around the world on c-span. i'm especially pleased to see so many young people and students in the audience today, those of us who lived through the kennedy presidency, now prepared to pass the torch again to a new generation of americans, knowing that the fate of our country and the rights we hold so dear will lie in your hands. and considering our future, i'm reminded of the famous words president kennedy used in his inaugural address, he not only challenged us to ask what we can do for our country, he also observed that his election signified that the torch had

been passed, and i quote "to a new generation of americans who are unwilling to witness or permit the slow undoing of those human rights to which this nation has always been committed and to which we are committed today at home and around the world." it's now my great honor to introduce the man who will officially open our proceedings, the 41st president of the united states, george herbert walker bush. [ applause ] >> let me start by saluting our friends at the john f. kennedy presidential library and museum for launching their jfk 50 justice for all program. i'm particularly happy to single out carolyn kennedy and todd putnam as well as bringham mccutchen and jay zimmer for making this program a reality. your topic strikes a real chord with me, as a young congressman

from texas, i well remember the open housing vote back in 1968. i voted with those who were fighting to give americans of all races and creeds the chance to buy a good home and a good neighborhood. later, as president, we got the americans with disabilities act passed, to make sure that tens of millions with disabilities had fuller access to the american dream. of course, these two instances are only part of a broader struggle for civil rights here at this forum and at other programs, you can learn how and why so many americans across this great land came together for a noble cause, basic human dignity, equal opportunity under the law, recognizing our diversity as a strength and a blessing. these are the values that define more than a movement, but a nation realizing its destiny, our potential for greatness. barbara joins me in sending our

best wishes for an informative and enjoyable event. [ applause ] >> so good afternoon, everyone, and thank you all so much for coming on behalf of my colleague, tom mcnaught, executive director of the kennedy library foundation, i want to especially thank the archivists of the united states for being here and opening our proceedings. i also want to thank the law firm of bingham mccutcheon, who are the underwriters of a special initiative called jfk 50, justice for all. and they've helped to sponsor today's conference. i'd also like to thank our media sponsors wbur and the "boston globe." we could have an hour and a half or whole conference on franklin roosevelt and civil rights and

you'll see from your schedule that we only have about 20 minutes to do that, and i was suggesting to allida, who is an expert on both franklin and eleanor roosevelt, that their courtship lasted about two years and trying to cover this topic in 20 minutes is a bit like the modern phenomenon of speed dating, so we'll do our best to cover this topic. fortunately, allida is not only a wonderful storyteller but a very fast talker, so allida, there's a debate among historians about franklin roosevelt and civil rights and maybe you -- when he became president, he faced a country that was not only facing depression, but was a seg gated nation. and like president kennedy and others, he faced conservative leaders in congress and within his own party and so as he was trying to put forth legislation, if he moved too quickly on integration in terms of some of that legislation, that could have held back some of his other legislative accomplishments.

so give us the quick gloss of franklin roosevelt and civil rights. >> this is like doing my whole life in 15 seconds, just so you know. [ laughter ] >> well, i think first of all, we have to remember that the democratic party was profoundly southern and a western party so when roosevelt comes into office he has not yet realigned the party to become the party that we all know today, but so it's quite interesting to me that some of the things that immediately happened with the staff that he picks. i mean, you immediately integrate -- and i use that word deliberately -- you abolish segregation in federal cafeterias in the interior department and other places. when, in fact, d.c. is a profoundly segregated city, and was segregated by a democrat, woodrow wilson. so his appointments, i think, are quite interesting in that way. you've got harold ickies, harry hopkins, aubrey williams, and

of course, the incomparable mary mcleod bethune. who before september 11th i used to lump with eleanor roosevelt and say they were the twin towers of the pre-war civil rights movement. so there's a huge risk taking mind-set there. now, does that mean that it goes as far as we want? no. but i have been all over the map on this and i have come to a very eleanor-like conclusion. and that is, you can look at a glass and you can see it half- empty or you can see the water keep increasing. and what i think both roosevelts did was really introduce to america the concept that the federal government was not just for the forgotten man or for the forgotten woman, but as fdr said when he spoke at howard, not only will there be no forgotten men, there will be no forgotten races. so we have policies. we have two executive orders that fdr issues, one for the

wpa, the works progress administration, that outlaws segregation in wpa hiring practices, and then you have the fair employment practices commission doing that for the defense industry. now, do they work? no. do they help some people? yes. is there a long way that we have to go? yes. do we still have to do it now? yes. but when you look at this, i want you to remember that they were the first executive orders passed or any type of federal legislation since reconstruction, which i think says a lot. also, if you look at the risks that they took in terms of setting up the civil rights division of the justice department, and although i'm supposed to talk about fdr and my colleagues at the project will expect me and pardon me as will the fdr library people to say you cannot talk about fdr and race without talking about eleanor. eleanor traveled without secret service protection.

there were assassination attempts on her life, not threats, attempts, as first lady. the ku klux klan places the largest bounty in history on her head. they firebomb trees next to revolutionary era churches that she spoke in, in north carolina, in 1937, 1938, when she's talking about the poll tax, she joined polly murray in chairing the national commission to abolish the poll tax, and so there were profound risks that were taken. and if i may sort of goad friendly with great respect to my colleagues who write on this, for once -- just for once, please, as a favor to me, when you when i about fdr and you write about race, will you please say that people were trying to kill his wife and in a she could have shut up if he said to her on this you will not cross me? like he did in internment?

there's a huge difference here, and the untold story of the roosevelts and race, which if i could ever go back and be a fly on a wall and engage in the what if school of history moment would be the conversations that they had one on one about the risk that she was taking to aggressively change her position from being truly separate but equal, but moving toward integration. and so by the time that garner murdell and ralph bunch do their landmark study, the american dilemma, ralph bunch will say, of all the people that i have interviewed in the united states, the person on whose sincerity i have no doubt is eleanor roosevelt. now, when you get to the war, which i guess we'll talk about, you'll really see the impact there, but, and the other thing about we all want anti-lynching passed. i grew up in memphis. i'm not that chunky white child

on the back of the wall in 1968, when dr. king was giving the mountaintop speech. i was two blocks away when he was assassinated at the lorraine motel. it changed my life. nobody on the planet wants fdr to engage in the anti-lynching legislation more than i do, but let's look at 1934 and let's see what dubois says when fdr calls lynching murder. he's the first president in the history of the united states to call it murder, and w.e.b. dubois editorializes on the front page of "the crisis." fdr does not support the legislation in '35, '36, '37 or '38 when it comes up, by 1938, eleanor roosevelt spends seven days sitting in the gallery of the united states senate, and she's surrounded by civil rights leaders, all people of color. when they ask her what eleanor is doing, she says, "i am

bearing witness," and that to me is a powerful, powerful statement. so you have to look at, granted there was no legislation passed, but there were internal policies changed. there was eleanor's outspokenness. there was her literally putting her life on the line for this, and there were executive orders written, and the justice department created. so i look at his record as a huge step forward to help jump-start where we want to be. was that good in three minutes? [ laughter ] >> i've never done it this fast. ever. [ applause ] >> so let's move to another small topic. [ laughter ] >> the desegregation of the armed forces, we'll have a panel that's going to talk about president truman, but where did fdr stand, and i think it would be of interest to people that, you know, who have seen the recent movie on the tuskegee

airmen. did he know those stories? his main accident was to win the his main intent was to win war but how did he face this issue? >> well, fdr always thought that the primary responsibility was to win the war. there was never any doubt in his mind about doing that. fdr did instruct the war department to, in fact, allow to remove the barriers placed in front of african-americans who wanted to enlist and serve. at this point 9% of the population was african-american. less than 1% were allowed to serve in the united states military. now, for those of you who may be suspect to propaganda and say, only 1% of the african-americans served in the draft, there were laws that prevented people from enlisting. and so fdr worked with the war department, who was profoundly opposed to this to, in fact, remove barriers. it didn't work that much.

it went from 1% to 5% as opposed to 9%. if you go back again, the glass is half-full. when fdr meets with a. philip randolph and walter wright and leaders from the urban league to discuss this, it's the exact same day that the tripartite pact is announced. that means at the same time he's learning that germany, japan and russia all have signed a pack against us. and when randolph and company come, they come in a meeting eleanor has facilitated. they have a list of seven demands. of those demands, four are met. the full integration of the service is not met, obviously, because that's left for truman to do. the steps that fdr does take, i think, are not just incremental,

but are a slap in the face. he has gotten rave reviews for changing his cabinet and bringing in a new secretary of war and a new secretary of the navy. they're republicans, it's supposed to be a bipartisan cabinet. and they are absolutely adamantly opposed to any activity that will advance negros through the ranks. simpson says leadership is not embedded in the negro race. he's secretary of war. the secretary of the navy knox says he will resign if in fact this happens. what does fdr do? he brings the dean of the law school to be simpson's aide. he appoints a colonel to advise the african-american colonel to advise the selective service.

and he gives simpson, the first african-american general to, in fact, ride sort of roughshod on them. the big obstacle in this, however, is george marshall. if you're go to look who's going to block a lot of stuff, fdr doesn't push hard but marshall says not on my watch. we got to win the war. eleanor works to have the 99th squadron, the tuskegee airmen through. she works to have african-american women who want to become nurses do this. there's a riot in that. eleanor goes to the city the night after the riot to calm things down. stays with the waves and in fact insists the swimming pools they're in to train in be integrated so they can have the same training that their white counterparts are. so it's complicated.

>> let's go to another complicated issue, which is japanese interment. probably the case in history where the federal government actually imprisons people based on race and ethnicity. >> i wouldn't say it's the first time. but i would say it's one of the major times. there's no doubt in my mind that fdr considered the emergency of wartime overrode civil liberties protections. there's just no doubt in my mind about this. he looked at a lot of precedents. he knew immediately. it was a decision that was greatly opposed within the administration. eleanor, for one, strongly opposed it. as did the attorney general of the united states, bittel, as did the military command in hawaii. as did justice douglas, who really violated legal protocol when he met with eleanor to advise her on arguments to

present to the president. but fdr -- i think the best book on this is a shoutout to my friend greg robinson whose book order of the president is hands down i think the best study of this. and i think greg is absolutely right, that fdr did not think it through in the sense of thinking there would be long-range questions of patriotism or, you know, suspicion of people or really understand the theft of property that went on. and so when there is a riot in manson r. camps and the heila river in july of -- i mean in the summer of 1943, he sends eleanor out to meet with them. and i know that they had numerous conversations on this.