appoint. and i don't think we always in terms of thinking about civil rights movement understand the power of those federal judges. so this was in fact quite significant, the placing of those judges, the appointing of those judges. >> yeah. i think it's the most important thing. little rock is the most dramatic, but the most important thing that eisenhower did was to appoint federal judges committed to defending brown, and he appointed them particularly in the fourth and fifth circuits in the south, and he appointed men like frank johnson who was the federal judge in alabama who in 1965 cleared the way for martin luther king's "entourage" to go from selma to montgomery. frank johnson has spent 44 years on the federal bench, so he would appoint those kind of judges. he appointed ronald davies who is the presiding federal judge in little rock. we'll get back to that, and he appointed, of course, five men to the supreme court, earl warren, john marshall harlan,

william brennan, potter stewart, charles evans whittaker is probably his weakest appointment. all five of them committed to the enforcement of brown. and william brennan, any of you know your supreme court history, was not a far right conservative in any way, shape or form. eisenhower actually nominated him when he was in the midst of an election campaign in the fall of '56, and he did that partly for political reasons, too. he wanted a catholic, so a catholic democrat, but eisenhower's judicial appointments lasted decades later, and felix frankfurter said that the supreme court during this era was the eisenhower court. we all know it as the warren court, but it was the eisenhower court, and i'll tell you one of the great myths was that eisenhower didn't know what earl warren stood for. that is factually incorrect. he knew him well. his attorney general brownell

socialized with warren and had run two presidential campaigns for him. he knew exactly who he was. and these books that float around and say that eisenhower didn't know who warren was or how he stood on race is ridiculous. there was a tension between these two guys, and we can talk about that if you want to, but it was not race. it was presidential politics. >> we can come back to that. i want to now get to eisenhower's some say finest moment with regards to civil rights and that's, of course, what happened at little rock. now, gang, remember, we've said that neither truman nor eisenhower looking for social equality. yet we now as you have articulated very well understand what eisenhower was doing, that he had the power to do. so here he is at a situation at little rock, and his hand is forced. but before we get to what he did, ernie green, tell us the story of little rock, so there you were standing alone. your buddies abandoned you.

>> well, i -- everybody's got a favorite teacher story. one of those magic moments. we had a the -- at the black high school that i attended before going to central, my 11th grade history teacher, whose name was gwendolyn scott, she taught black history. i'm sure if the little rock school board knew what she was doing they would have arrested her, because we studied, you know, rebellions, the protest movement, the beginning of the naacp, all of this, and it just seemed to me, that again, going back, till was in my consciousness. montgomery bus boycott began around december '55. i remember that when the brown decision was handed down. i didn't, you know, i didn't know the nuances of the decision. i only knew the next morning in our local newspaper.

it said that this court decision was going to change the face of the south, and i said good. because i wanted to change the face of the south. the south that i saw at that time as a 13, 12, 13-year-old it was something, segregated fountains, buses, limited jobs, all of that. we didn't get our street paved until i think -- until the supreme court decision was handed down. there were no more new school buildings built for black folks after may 17th, 1954 than any time in the history of the country. all of that, you know, is what you're processing, so the way that little rock was a series, was a challenge from the state naacp daisy bates, and there's a documentary that i think public television has been doing on

mrs. bates, but the moment came that i had a chance to say that i wanted to transfer. i wanted to transfer because you saw this huge building. you passed it every day. you knew that i came out of a family of teachers, and they always complained about the resources that central had as compared to what we had, the hand-me-down books, so -- and i figured i wanted to get the best college education i could, so if i want to central, and they had more of what we wanted to have, that this was going to be a good thing. the summer occurs, and it's kind of bumping along, and i get an invitation, my mother and i, to go down to the superintendent's office to indicate that i've been accepted as one of the students to transfer to central that fall. i thought it was going to be a fairly quiet day.

and up until -- and so did most people in little rock, and the night before school was to open, the good governor orville faubus comes on television and says that he's calling out the national guard to keep us out of school. and i'm thinking oh, my goodness, you know, i'm a senior. i want to graduate, and i'm walking into this huge unknown. and that first day the pictures on the brochure of elizabeth and the mob behind her, it dawned on me that maybe this was something other than my going to school, that there's some other issues going on here, and that i said i wanted to be a part of the change in the south. well, my moment came. and for three weeks, in fact, most people didn't think eisenhower was going to step forward and do anything. i don't think up until the last

minute -- we were talking earlier. i had an opportunity to sit with herbert brownell back in the '80s. we were at the eisenhower -- eisenhower library. and i said, you know, eisenhower really didn't need to send 1,000 paratroopers with the 101st airborne. he could have sent 50, 100 or 200, that they would have done the job, but he said that eisenhower, he had just won world war ii, he was the president of a major university without a phd. he was the darling of both political parties to be the standard bearer for president and he wanted to show faubus who was in charge, that he was tired of having this second-rate governor, as he saw him, push him around. and so on the 25th of september, when they finally sent the

troops and we went to school with, you know, a convoy of jeeps and army station wagons and helicopters flying over, you got the feeling you were going to get into school that day. but -- but -- but i -- i -- i think, again, unintended consequences that that was really, at left in my mind, the first time that the federal government had really stepped forward to support that decision and to show african-american communities that they were uphold their rights, so when i bump into people like john lewis and others, you know, they said little rock was an important part of their consciousness, so each of these steps and places became, you know, kind of stepping stones. one led to the other, and we

never expected, any of us, the nine of us, that what we were doing was -- was going to be earth-shattering and that 56 years later i'm still talking about getting to high school. but the -- the interest of all nine of us was really to pursue the best education, public education we thought that was our right, and we had came from families that education was important and that they thought we had the right to be there. >> right. >> and that that was really what i think eisenhower -- i never had a chance to meet him, never, you know, looked beyond that year of the presidential politics, but one important thing was at my graduation, there was a young minister from

montgomery, alabama, speaking in pine bluff, arkansas, and the night that i graduated, dr. king came up, sat with my family and was in the audience, so, you know, this -- all of this connection -- connectivity of how the charlayne story and others, and we all, you know, were doing our individual thing, trying to improve what we thought was the best options for us. >> now understanding it's 56 years later and you have the benefit of hindsight, let's go back to your young self and for history sake in this conference you have to answer the question of were you frightened? i mean, it's a situation where now we have all the troops showing up to protect you. >> sure, i was frighten -- well, we weren't frightened. we were frightened on the side of the unknown. when the governor called out the national guard to keep us out,

yeah, we were frightened, and -- and the unknown was, you know, will i complete school that year? i didn't know whether it was going to collapse on me, but when president eisenhower sent the troops, i mean, that sent one hell of a message. the most difficult times for us is when we withdrew the troops from his side, and then we had to deal with students and harassment and the throwing of food and cursing and locker room being steamed up and glass being broken, and, you know, i mean, but, again, it came -- something in the back of my head said, you know, if they want to fight this hard to keep you out, something else is going on here. >> yes. >> and -- and giving up on it at this point is not -- not an option, and that i think is really the nine of us, we worked

with each other. we became a close-knit unit, a family, and that was really what helped us get through that year. >> little rock nine, ernie green, thank you so much. [ applause ] i'm going to move over -- >> thank you. >> i will add one other thing, that during that period one of -- louis armstrong spoke out strongly. >> the singer. >> the singer. >> the musician. >> the trumpet player, the musician, and he spoke out and admonished eisenhower to send some protection in to help us. >> he did indeed. >> there weren't a lot of people standing up at that point, and i

really think the image that we have of somebody like armstrong, that he would step out of character and stand up. >> david nichols, i want you to pick up the thread. ernie talked to herbert brownell who worked with president eisenhower quite closely so many years later and said why so many. why did he decide to intervene the way he did and why so many troops? >> permit me a personal privilege for a second. mr. green, have you my enormous respect, and your story is the real story about this. i've written about president eisenhower and i'll talk about that, but yours is the great story that my book doesn't pretend to address, and it's the story of great courage and great importance. >> thank you. >> and i have an african-american daughter who is better off because of what you did, and i appreciate that. [ applause ]

>> so if i may, for people who need resources on this, pbs has just aired "daisy bates." it's an hour or a 90-minute documentary produced by sharon le cruz who was once an employee of black side incorporated where i once worked on "with eyes on the prize" which is a very fine resource for this story as well. so there's a couple of -- there's many, many books on the subject so people can follow up. david nichols. >> the intervention. >> yes. >> you want me to talk about eisenhower's troop decision. >> yes. >> i talk about little rock as the tip of the iceberg and we already talked about the judicial appointments. eisenhower and his attorney general herbert brownell anticipated violence from almost the moment the brown decision was made. and they early on, the 101st airborne division that was sent into little rock in 1957 was trained in riot control. this was not for riots in europe.

they anticipated there it might be an alternative to using the one legal out that he had which was to use the troops, hoping not to do it. but he did. but little rock is the defense of the brown iceburg. and i would point out to you that eisenhower could have chosen not to send troops. people assumed he was forced to. he chose to. he chose to very quickly. he didn't quaver around about much of the commentaries say. the time line was very short. as you mentioned, ernie, faubus announced the national guard to patrol the school on the night of september 2nd. they there there in the morning of september 3rd. on september 4th herbert

brownell held a news conference and indicated specifically with the president's approval that one of the options the president could use was to use troops to enforce the supreme court decision. faubus sent a hot wire to eisenhower who was on vacation in newport, rhode island. eisenhower sent a telegram right back which was made public and said i will do whatever is necessary to uphold the constitution. very clear. now, they did meet and try to negotiate an arrangement on september 14th in newport, and that did not work out. and faubus did not keep his word. so eisenhower eventually on september 24th, when violence erupted again, mobilized the 101st airborne division, and he did -- he said to herbert brownell at that time. he believed in overwhelming the force. you don't do these kinds of things halfway. you send the message, and i think what you said was appropriate. it was several kinds of messages, but i would point out it's the tip of the iceberg because remember about these federal judicial appointments,

the judge, the federal judge who issued the court order to faubus to cease and desist was ronald davies, an eisenhower appointee, who opened the door for the justice department to intervene, which opened the door for sending troops to enforce the federal court order. eisenhower was a typical politician. in some ways he could be very cute about this and he would say later oh, i didn't send the troops to enforce desegregation. i sent them to uphold a federal court order. well, a federal court order about what? brown! that's what. and so ike would sometimes be cute -- too cute by half which was one reason why people looked at what he said publicly. sometimes they don't know where he's coming from because he'd be very politically cute about it. >> it is the first time that the troops were called in in this way. >> this was the first time -- first time that the federal troops were sent in to particularly a former confederate state since reconstruction after the civil

war so this is not small potatoes. it's a big deal. but more important -- more important than the judicial appointments that lasted after little rock. >> all right. we've got some questions from the audience. these are good ones. i'm dr. carol anderson. i once heard you say when you visited simmons college when you spoke of president truman and the conflict underscored when the naacp leaders such as a. philip randolph wanted to go to the u.n. and file human rights violations against the u.s. and mrs. roosevelt, and mrs. roosevelt force them not to, asked by truman. you said your friends can only go so far. can you say more about this? >> yes. and what i'm talking about there is as allida black has so wonderfully laid out, eleanor was an ally, but one of the things about these alliances, and that is absolutely essential

in understanding movement, and understanding these -- these freedom strategies, is that your allies can take you so far, they can only go so far, and if you're relying upon your ally to go this far, because what the naacp was counting on, because she was a member of the naacp board of directors, and w.e.b. dubois had pulled together a fabulous petition to the u.n. called an appeal to the world, where he pulled together top scholars, legal scholars, socialists, historians to document the systematic violation of human rights for african-americans since the founding of this nation, and because no government entity within the u.s. was willing to fully address these issues, the naacp took it to the u.n. this is 1947. this would be the beginning of the cold war, and in that cold war frame, eleanor roosevelt was not about to allow this dirty laundry to be aired before the soviet union because the soviets are sitting there on the commission of human rights

seeing this powerful document from the naacp, a legitimate organization, right? and this carefully documented going sweet, i mean, just tears of joy. granted, these are soviets but they are like thank you, god, and -- and eleanor is like, no, we must defend the united states. we cannot have our dirty laundry aired, and so part of that was the pushback in terms of burying this petition deep within the bowels of the u.n., but it was also then sending the signal to the naacp that all of this international stuff about human rights was not going to be tolerated, particularly in terms of human rights in the united states. we can talk about human rights that the poles aren't able to have democracy. we can talk about human rights that the east germans don't have freedom of speech, but we cannot talk about human rights in terms of what's happening in the united states, and so she resigned from the board of

directors of the naacp, and it took all of walter white's efforts. i liken it to almost doing a james brown please, please, please. >> don't go. >> don't go. >> eleanor, please, don't go. >> yeah. that's what i mean about your allies can only take you so far. there are things that she could do. there were things she could not do and would not do and the naacp needed to understand that as it was crafting its strategy. >> all right. are there any examples or any documentation of truman experiencing personal turmoil, threats to his personal safety because of his participation in matters of civil rights? >> oh, yeah. particularly in after his message to congress in february 1948, his state of the union address, and in it a state of the union address part of what he does is he lays out that this has got to be a nation that is committed to civil rights.

this is a nation that has to be committed to fairness, to justice and to the bill of rights, and so he said in his message before congress i am going to issue two executive orders, one desegregating the federal bureaucracy and one desegregating the military, and -- and i -- you know, it's almost -- the black community goes wild. i mean, this is what they needed to hear from the president of the united states. you read the black press, it's like tears ecstatic, just ecstatic. the southern democrats were like oh, oh, no, oh, no, and so part of what you see going through when you go through the document in the truman library, folks are like, you know, truman, you're going to have to die. you're going to have to go. we're going to have to get rid of you some way or another. you're going to have to go. for the southern democrats, the politicians themselves were saying, unless you get back on this track, we're going to bury you.

you will not see the white house again. you see this then in the democratic national convention in philadelphia in 1948 in july where when hubert humphry gets up and he makes a speech that says we've been in the shadow of states' rights for too long, and it's now time for us to walk within the bright sunshine of human rights, and the crowd goes wild and the southern democrats are sitting there going oh really. and they get up and walk out and form the dixiecrat party with the strom thurmond as the dixiecrat's presidential nominee. this was -- he faced -- when you read through, you get the sense of anger with him, the sense that you are a traitor, that you don't deserve to be in the white house, so he faced a lot of pressure for his stance on -- on trying to move the u.s. forward. >> could this -- could the same

question be asked of eisenhower, but because there has been this long feeling that he was, as i said, operating behind the scenes for little rock, did he get the same kind of threats? >> i don't have documentation of threats against eisenhower's personal safety. those may exist. scholars always have to limit what we do, and i didn't look at the secret service records that carefully. so i'm sorry. i don't have anything to share with you. i'm not aware of any specific threats to him. >> ernie green, and i know the answer to this, but this is going to be a great question for you to answer. someone saw the documentary we just referred to about daisy bates. what can you say about her? did you meet her? and yes, you did. but tell that story, please. >> well, i said that one of the great things about that documentary, daisy had great style. she looked good. she wore great sunglasses. her hats were impeccable.

but she was also taking on, and i think the film makes a nice mark on that. she was taking on men in the african-american community asserting leadership. >> how did you know her? you got to tell this. >> well, mrs. bates was president of the arkansas naacp. she was a state president. we knew her because the family had the weekly newspaper, "the arkansas state press." and it was a journal that we all read. so when time came, there were -- she had sued the little rock school board the year before we were admitted to adhere to the '54 decision. and when we were finally

admitted to central, and mrs. bates sort of served as the mentor and the -- her house was the focal point where we gathered. she had the flow of information from all the journalists from around the world. she helped to keep us grounded. i mean we didn't know all this was swirling around us. we were trying to stay focused on our studies and make sure that we were going to finish out that year. >> and us is the little rock nine of which you are a part. >> yes. >> okay. here is a question. dr. martin luther king said we could pass all the laws we want. we could not legislate the heart. we still have biases and prejudice in america. how are we educating the heart to progress the humanity in all people? ernie green, i'll let you have that final word. >> well, i think we're educating the heart by events like this that really we begin to peel

back the cover of the activity that has been going on among these presidents, among their administrations. and it's important for us to tell a story. dr. king's statue didn't just appear on the mall overnight, that the number of people who contributed, who played a role, the unnamed faces and thousands and thousands of people, black and white, that had a vision about what this country could become. that it would be better than its history. and the future is hopefully going to be brighter than those of us who played a role in it. and i think it's really -- it really underscores the opportunity for this next generation. kennedy talked about passing the torch.

the torch really gets passed because all of the players who played a role in it. that would be my last word. >> and that is the last word here. [ applause ] except let me thank our guest. ernie green, david nichols, carol anderson. you can learn more about the presidents each weekend on american history tv through speeches and discussions with leading historians. every sunday morning at 8:30 eastern and again at 7:30 and 10:30 p.m. here on c-span 3. to find out more about the series and our other history programing, including our weekend schedules and online video, visit c-span.org/history. this week we're featuring some of american history tv's weekend programs on c-span3. in a few moments, we'll continue to focus on the presidency and civil rights with a look at the legacy of president john f. kennedy. in a little more than an hour,

more about civil rights then and now, the achievements of the past 60 years, and civil rights issues today. >> this is c-span3 with politics and public affairs programing throughout the week, and every weekend 48 hours of people and events telling the american story on american history tv. get our schedules and see past programs at our websites. and you can join in the conversation on social media sites. more now from the john f. kennedy presidential library conference on the presidency and civil rights. the next panel, which is a little more than an hour, focuses on president kennedy's civil rights legacy. >> so if we could have your attention. we'll now good to our next panel on the presidencies of john f. kennedy and lyndon baines johnson.