amp the civil war. migrants out of the south. they called them exo2ku689ers. >> prt of that great mig grace. >> yes. for of these neighborhoods in topeka historically. one calmed tennessee town, but three others. santown, mudtown and the bottoms. and i think those names of those communities, those neighborhoods, are very evocative of their place in the environment. and they're topographically low and prone to drainage problems and flooding from the kansas river and a creek that flows into it. >> would those be names that the folks in those areas gave themselves or did the white population call that area sandtown, whatever? >> i think it would have been the inhabitants, because they congregated there because then were being excluded then of course, a part of the color line isn't just repressive but a way in which people come together because of shared culture and identity and they try to create

a community within that. people in mudtown, yeah, they gathered together but they were the ones who calmed it mudtown. so it's from those kinds of landscape features that my argument is the color line arises, and it runs its way through all kinds of things, even into schools and how people experience education and so forth. >> in the course of doing the republic of nature, how much of your research caused you to change your opinion about significant historical events? >> well, one of the things that it caused me to think was that, i think it's legitimate. i think it's valid and legitimate to ask basic environmental history questions of almost any event. what that yields is going to depend on the topic event, the historian asking the questions. those storts's things, but i really do believe that every topic is subject to environment history questions and it's not a question of whether there's an environment history to it or not. it's a question of what kind of

environmental his trip there is. i'd like to think one could go to any topic and yield a story, a book, a chapter, whatever, of the sort that i've done. >> at the end of the book you actually offer a whole series of topics that you didn't do that seem promising to you. what would be some examples of unasked questions that looked to you to be fertile questions? >> okay. one of the concluding section, it's cutting paths that beckon. there are nine vignettes, sketches, each of which ends with questions of the sort one might ask if one wanted to go further. one of my students called it the bonus nine. so -- and these weren't meant to the comprehensive and thor taitive in any way, but one of the -- one section is about the great awakening in the 18th century, for example and i titled it, "in a strong from

nach all is an experience of god." how it was a part of the great awakening. they tended to see things in terms of what was natural, what was not. wrap was divine and what was not. >> what was the great awakening? >> a great religious rivalry. oftentimes the revival meetinging they held were out of doors. they were trying to avoid what they saw awe the artificial ire hierarchy and arrangements of the various churches. >> the organized religion? >> of unestablished religion. to go outside if you have a meeting in the field, to take people down to a river and immerse nem that river. stloe was a rather naturalistic language as i see it that was part of that process, and so it's a really intriguing thing for me to wonlder about the environments hadtry of the great awakening. how did people experience this nature and how did this language

become part of that historical event? >> and actually back to a question you asked earlier about the language of the deck drashgs endowed by their create around you asked, is this religious or secular and one of the lessons for me is that that dichotomy is it this or is it that, was not as strong in the 18th century as it feels sometimes in america today. because, in fact, out of these religious traditions emempg the many core values of the nation, which today looked secular. but when today does genealogy you recognize kind of groups of certain religious ways of thinking about the environment or of the nation and what do they feel like non-religious ways of looking at it actually have much more in common that you might imagine, which is really an interesting part and what mark just said about the great awakening is an example of that. >> what i want to ask you is about your 1991 book calmaled anature's metropolis" talk be about the republic's nature.

what was the theme of that book? >> a history of chicago in the second half of the 19th search vi and the agenda of the book, look at the history of one of the world's great metropolises at the moment it became a great metropolis and chicago was bear lay town. 1848 is sort of the real beginning of chicago's explosion. the town founded in the early 1830s, but it really explodes with the emergence of the railroad in the late '40s, mid-1850s, thereabout. what the book tries to do narrate the history of the city in tondom with the countryside transformed by growth of that city's markets. so the argument becomes, you cannot understand the history of chicago nor can you understand the history of the american middle west or west without seeing city and country as transforming each other. and it's part of this kind of an argument that mark is offering which is, when you put seemingly

human thing, eve an city in a larger natural frame, you understand things about that city you never would have noticed if you didn't put them in that larger context. that's what that book tries to dos. although it does it for chicago, there's another sense in which the arguments of that book apply to every city on the planet throughout human history. so if you read it in my view you'll look at any human community differently, because you'll be asked to look beyond the boundaries of that community towards the sunt side in which that community exists. >> i would say one of the things bill's book captures a breaking down this idea of separations nap there's the city and there's the country. i think it's influenced a lot of people in how they think about all kinds of things, questioning the categories that we create, and don't quite, we don't question those, and here was a model for the rest of us to tripe to begin thinking about those boundaries that we've received from the past but don't

know wipe they originated the way they did and let's break that down a little bit. what do we come up with? >> the truth is, isn't it? that these, particularly these northern cities. chicago, new york, midwestern city, indianapolis, washington, were influenced by the migration, whether that be certainly the african-americans but whites coming from the country, that changed those cities with the values they bring from the land. >> including people who made that journey from rural europe. rural folks from ireland. rural folks from italy. rural folks from poland were making a rural urban migration in the same way that rural african-americans from the american south were migrates to the south side of chicago. so we forget sometimes that immigrants, european immigrants, and then other immigrants from all over the world in addition to making a journey to fleshg other countries were making a journey from country to city in much the same way that rural americans were making that journey. >> because of those factors,

does that give -- because of the immigration both from europe and within, give american cities a uniqueness that's not found's in cities elsewhere, or -- >> well, i would say this rural to urban migration is schull lay worldwide phenomenal. the explodesing cities of other parts of the world today are part of the same world to urban migration, but i don't disagree with the premise of the question. american cities felt very different in the 19th century and early 20th century than the european citizens that would have been their nearist analogs early on. partly because they were so koss ma tall pin, so polygloth, the religious faiths expressed on the lanscape, and could you say that although the concept of the melting pot is a very complicated and in some ways problematic way of thinking about the immigrant experience, it is one of the challenges that the united states. to grapple with. for decades and decades and decades. what does it mean to be an

american. how does one become an american in this complicated, convergence of peoples from all over the world that made this nation, calmed it into being. >> back to your writing about abraham lincoln a little more. expand, if you will, some of the things that you see that influenced him as a political leader and ultimately as a president? >> sure. well, there's a really interesting story about lincoln. i find it fascinating. and in the early 1850s, he wrote a speech and it's generally calmed the speech on discoveries and inventions, and almost no one knows this but lincoln is the only president to have registered a patent. this is a patent for inflatable cells that would lift a ski boat over schohoals in a river and t is a guy who knows how to move boats in rivers and the physical labor that requires, but hits speech and recoveriesened inventions is fascinating in a nubble of ways.

basically an account of technological innovations over time that begins with genesis and goes forward into the present and along wait he talk and, for example, wind power. almost like he's a proponent of green energy. >> wind power? >> yeah, wind power, green energy, and he talks about all this under the general notion of improvement, that nature is something that is subject to fulfilling an inaround potential. it can be approved. ultimately, in that speech which he gave several times before he got involved in politics is the section between the crisis between north and south heated up. he does detect to his plit ideas. it's the invention of printing, mass printing so people were read, learn and then eventually as he puts it bible to break the shackles enslaving their minds. >> you both teach courses on the history of the american west. how has how we view the american west changed over the years you've been teaching this?

irnl >> i would say much more of an emphasis on the 20th century west. most associate this with old west topics. the cattle drives. the wars between the united states army and the indian tribes and so forth but i would say what's becoming increasingly important is the creation of the 20th century west. the modern west which has sdictive characteristics. >> what are the key topics important in the 20th century? >> the role of the federal government. the federal government during the time, in the military struggles, the first and second world wars and the cold war and the pest plays a very important role. and how they conduct the efforts. >> how. changed? in looking at the american west. >> one of the biggest differences within the field of history as thinking about the west is that western history in its origins was really taught as the history of america. and it was -- it's the history

of the frontier and western history ban in new england, began in roanoke, began in the chesapeake. >> always-- >> and worked its way west from anglo-america, and sort of consistent with what mark just said about the 20 rnlg century was increedingly we teach the history of the west as the west that is today. champion is to sap the west that is the pacific slope that is the rocky mountains that is the great plains, and don't as much teach those earlier we69s, pre-civil war or pre-1800. >> you, professor, professor can-o can-oca kproen-o cronon, you for this year, for 2012, will be heading the american historical association. how are the two associations different? >> well, the organization of america, ohh as we call it, is the largest professional organizations of scholar whose study past the united states.

the american association which is must larger and one of the larger scholar organizations in the country, is the professional organization of all historians who study all places at all times in the human path. so everything from bazantium backward and forward will be fair game for the hi torian. i'm a president, a great honor and one of the great obligations of the president is to help organization the conference, which i give my presidential address which will be in new orleans this coming january, and although that program happen to represent all of the past, all of history, all places, all times, there will be a lot of environment stuff in there. >> you recently wrote a piece in the, for the aha about talking about teaching of history and what you term professional boredom. what do you mean? who were you aiming that message -- >> it's actually part of a --

one called professional boredom the other called loving history. it was plea basically that i think history is ats best when historians don't just talk with each other. they talk with everyone who cares about the past, and make sure that the message we have to share is one that no matter how deep your knowledge of the past, no matter how sophisticated your understanding yushgs invited into the space of asking these fascinating questions, which i think mark has done such a brilliant job of in this book. if we look at american past differently we'll see stuff we've never seen before. >> what did your research take you to that was sormt of out of the ordinary or not along a typical lines of historical research? >> well, in most chapters i think i wanders into things that at least environmental ichts haven't typically gone and of course i'm asking questions that experts in these fields don't typically ask. so it's hard to answer that

question, because i think in some ways it was a journey into the familiar, and it was a journey into pt familiar, but buy a set of different questions. so i was seeing the past with fresh eyes, so to speak. >> is this the kind of book you will use? this will be your course work book for a course? >> yes, i'd like to use it on a course i teach but there's a conflict of interest there's. one of the thing i want to do is come up with exercises for students in which they don't feel they have to please me. that they can be critical of the book and reassuring him any royalty is of make off the book will be donated to the institution. i'm definitely going to use t. it's a book many people will. it's a back i plan to use and hope it will be used in high school, too. >> how big is the field? >> e just had our annual meeting in madison, wisconsin, a couple weekation. several hundred people. one of the largest gatherings.

several hundred professionals who do this as an about tickty. it's a field because it asks such unusual question, people aren't used to asking about the past, it's one 6 disproportion the number the number of prizes over the last 259 years a years. >> in that field what do you see developing, the most popular current issues that you're wrestling with? >> i think mark alluded to one. this idea that looking closely at the human body, and how the body as it -- all three of us sitting at this table and having bodies, these bodies are themselves environments for the things that live inside of it, and they are in environments. that's actually a very exciting set of questions. i think there are things in the current political scene that role of energy, and what it means to navigate major energy transitions is clearly a

question beyond the agenda of the american future, and it has been repeatedly in the american past. and the past of other nations as well. so there are many, many current policy questions which if we approach them historically we'll understand them differently and i would say better. >> people ask you, why should i study history? wipe should i major in history? what's the answer you give them? why study history? >> because i don't think that you can really understand the present unless you understand the past. and that ranges from the personal level. no one would say, you know, my personal -- i don't nope my story, i don't know my family's history. is that applies to the individual i think it applies to the society in which one lives. plus it's really interesting. there are great skills one learns in terms of reading, writing analysis and so forth that helped not only as a citizen also in gaining employment. >> and i would just quickly say, i think it's endlessly fascinating and the world becomes a much, much more interesting place when you look

at it historically. the question, how did things get to be this way? always has interesting an unexpected answers and i sometimes tell my students, when you see something in the world today that makes no sense, seems this is crazy. why do people dop it this way? the reason is, usually that there was a time in the past when it actually made a lot of sense and they just haven't changed yet. and figuring out why we do these crazy things that we do by looking backward in time is always interesting. >> mark fiege and his new book is "the republic of nature: historian at colorado state university" and women kproen-on-akproen-oncronon, teaching at the university of wisconsin. thanks for being with us. >> thanks vfor having us. >> yes, thanks very much. this year consent vehicles are traveling country exploring american history. next a look at our recent visit to wichita, kansas. you're watching american history tv, all weekend, every weekend,

on c-span3. >> ah! welcome to old cowtown museum, wichita, kansas. yee-ha! >> we are living history museum that represents the history of wichita in central count fri 1865 through 1880, a 15-year time span. we have three different distinct types of economic activity that really change and enhance the town. the first five years were primarily buffalo hunting, trading with the native americans, and, also, freighting down into oklahoma. the second five years has to do with the cowboys and the cattle coming to wichita. the railroad coming to wichita. and all of the followout that comes from that. and-o thirdly, our farmers. farmers and industry. the cattle leave of 1876. and so after that point, we're

looking to see what we can do to create a business out of agricultural interests and also you is the munger house. it's the only original remaining structure from 1865 to 1870 time. and it was a very important building in our history in that it is a residence but it's also the headquarters of the wichita town and land company that came down here to create, shall we say the city of wichita. what was going on at the time is that we had a small military outpost, camp beacher that was stationed here. we had buffalo hunters and small trading post. we had freighting into oklahoma. we got a lot of economic activity going on, but we would like to capitalize on that. so some gentlemen from topeka decided that they would form a company to come down and create

a town and so mr. munger was the most skilled person of that group. he came down here and built this log cabin pretty much by himself. the building served as a hotel as well as a land office. i often tell folks that we start out basically as a 16 building town with anywhere from 40 to 70 residents. there weren't that many folks. a lot of people going through, military going through, freighters going back and forth between oklahoma so there's not really a stable population of much more than that, that 50 to 60 people who are here. and munger was one of them. that's what he was hoping to do was to recruit people to stay and live here and start their businesses and that type of thing. we, of course, are in the midst of the victorian time. queen victoria over in england is setting the fashion as to how people should live properly and despite the fact that we're here

in the midwest, people have the mindset from the east and west coast is that victorian is the way you should be and act. ironic as it may seem a lot of the fashions in our 1870 time period were based on what you would have seen back in philadelphia. we got a number of photographs of some of our early settlers in their victorian finest, their frock coats and the ladies with their treasures and if you would cut out the background of all the tall prairie grasses and slip them in front of a brick building like philadelphia they would be just in fashion. that was keeping up with what the style was. what we're in right now is our exhibit of the wichita eagle newspaper. the wichita eagle was created and run by one of our town founders, marshall murdoch. he wasn't here when the town began. he was essential in the development and the expansion of

our town. he was the creator of the wichita city eagle, and newspapers of that time especially his newspaper is not necessarily a news dispensing newspaper. it's more of a convention and visitors bureau type paper. whenever he was done with his newspaper run for his subscribers he would make quite a few extra copies and what he would do he would send them to places in philadelphia and new york and all over the united states so people in their reading rooms where other folks were reading newspapers from other parts of the country could read all about wichita and see what kind of a grand and glorious place it would be. mr. murdoch was a very interesting character. and he was gentleman who was recruited by the city fathers because of his newspaper ability. in our time we would have called it booster newspaperism. he's promoting the town. he's a very well-known

throughout the midwest and also throughout the country for his style of journalism and also for his promotion and no holds barred, no hesitation about promoting the virtues of the town. he wants to sell this town as hard as he can because whenever you get enough people in the town, the town s-of course, assured to survive. at least that's what their goal was. now, mr. murdoch was not the kind of person that would tell you any lies but he also would kind of maybe leave a little bit out shall we say. rather than saying that sometime in the middle of the spring your street is going to become open sewers he may say we have a strong south wind that keeps the air fresh and clean. does eli? not necessarily but he paints wichita in a good light. what we are attempting to create is an economic engine that will basically keep our town together. we have lots of ambitious people who have come from all corners

of the united states to live their lives and they would like, of course, to invest in something that's going to prosper. one of the things that they looked at was the cattle trade was a vehicle to get them established, get the economic engine going. most folks realized the cattle trade would be a short term type of a situation and it toes only last for four years here in wichita. wichita acquiring the cattle trade presented it with a certain amount of problems. on one hand you have the people who are attempting to create a midwest victorian town that replicates that on the east coast. at the same time you need that economic engine that runs. now you got to remember that cowboys are basically high schoolers on spring break. you basically have boys who are maybe away from their house and home for the first time in their lives, and they are out looking for fun and excitement. unfortunately they spent the last three months staring at cattle seven days a week and by the time they get to wichita

they want to cut loose. they are looking for drinking, dancing and gambling and ladies of the evening to spend their time with. wichita is divided by a river. on one side of the river there was a small undeveloped region called delando. because of that a lot of the drinking, dancing, gambling houses occurred over in that part of the city. and, of course, the folks here on the east side kind of felt well none of that is going on here so we can preserve our families and you can have your business over there and support the cowboys and everything will get along fine. by 1876 the farmers and the cowboys are not getting along. the farmers are upset at the preferential treatment, the high prices that are being charged, different things that are going on and so they went to topeka.

they had the quaratine line moved and all the cattle had to move to dodge city. we now have enough economic activity going on with farming industries as well as businesses such as grain elevators and flour mills and biscuit factories and things like that that really propel us into the future. the folks who came out here were entrepreneurs and people who are willing to great risks to get the cattle here, number one we became the county seat by shall we say running roughshod over some of our neighbors. we floated our own bonds so we could create our own railroad because the santa fe was heading west and they bypassed us so we had to create our own railroad to meet up with them. once that happened then we embraced the cattle trade that was coming through. so there's a lot of men who were basically putting their whole

fortunes on the line creating a future. a lot of that activity still happens here in wichita. if you look at all the flight industries we're known as the air capital and a lot of those industries came because gentlemen had ideas of things to try. we also are the home of the first pizza hut, again frank carney, someone taking a risk and starting something and so that entrepreneurial spirit really has been the reason why wichita began and what keeps it going. this weekend american history tv is featuring wichita, kansas. our local content vehicles recently visited wichita to learn about its rich history. learn more about wichita and c-span's local content vehicles at c-span.org/localcontent. next month we'll feature jefferson city, missouri. you're watching american history tv. all weekend every weekend on

c-span 3. each sunday evening at 7:30 now through labor day weekend american history tv features our series the contenders. 14 key political figures who ran for president and lost, butting changed political history. this sunday the great compromiser, henry clay. >> his famous comment i rather be right than president still speaks to us. it's a call to people all across whatever we're doing whether politics is to do the right thing. he also said, you know, that in a sense, that politicians need to remember their country and sacrifice for the country i think that is still something that we need to remember as well. >> also this weekend we'll feature the history of wichita as part of our visit to the largest city in kansas. american history tv, this weekend on c-span 3. sunday on q and a -- >> i think the problem with walter cronkite, people see him