and so they -- relocated to augusta in 1854. and from '54 to '58, blaine was the editor of the journal which is still being published today. and he also was involved editorially in the portland advertiser which was a daily paper. and there we are seeing today's issue of the journal. the oldest continuous daily newspaper. >> alive and well and still publishing in a difficult newspaper age. we are in the study. the newspapers of the time, he was both a newspaper man and very involved in party politics. that was common? >> that would have been very common. it was one of the primary ways that politicians got the word out about whatever their policies were. and certainly there was no television.

people were very interested in -- no radio. no internet. newspapers and public speaking were the ways politicians operated. >> we also have to remember that newspapers are very partisan in those days. >> right. >> shamelessly so. >> and self-admitted. and a particular individual, group of individuals, would start a newspaper, not only just to report the daily news of their community but also to promote a particular political view or particular political party. >> so was his interest in the republican party -- how did the newspaper business and the republican interest intersect? >> it is i have interesting. 1854, the year he comes to augusta and becomes the editor of the journal is the year in which the national republican party is founded. he's involved in that. other famous mainers are. the newspaper is very much alive with that rise of the party in maine. >> i'm going take a telephone call from washington, d.c.

marvin watching us there. >> caller: hi. find it very fascinating. i'm wondering how would -- america be different or how would our country be different if mr. blaine had become president and then also in terms of why we don't really care about him in the -- history books, can you elaborate further on that? >> thank you for watching. well, how would the country be different if he had been elected? >> i'm not sure the country would be terribly different. i think that perhaps mckinley becomes very pro-business president in 1896. and a republican. and i think that if -- blaine maybe would have brought that earlier, you know, change had he become elected in 1884. but he --

>> i think -- the only thing i would add to that is that some scholars have said that blaine -- because of his personal magnetism would have perhaps been a great sort of figurehead leader for the country. would have projected a kind of -- image of confidence and power that was -- had really been lacking in recent presidents in that period. and that he might have been the moss important figure perhaps between lincoln and teddy roosevelt. >> and chicago is up next. dave, you are on the air, dave. >> caller: i just wanted to mention that if i'm correct, there was a comment about blaine that thomas nance had -- this book was also referred to as 20 years on maine. >> well, will is that. >> caller: had to be a locomotive engineer. the railroad connection was

validity in the day. there's a small town in west virginia because his friend, henry davis, who -- central pittsburgh, western maryland and then currently csx, named blaine, west virginia. he endures the railroad in that way. and -- if i also know it correctly, it is so -- one of the things we get the launch from what people say in your favor. had he not lost new york in a lot of hips rounds, the people did not support a party of democrats, romanism that were valued. so -- i guess that's -- also. >> right. >> caller: thank you for taking my call. >> thanks for watching. we talked about the romans and remember bell on. 20 years on the make. that's a great title. >> of course, probably the

greatest civil war in post-civil war cartoonist. harpers weekly was his forum. every week he created another as if mating and challenging political cartoon. and he just got -- didn't like blaine. >> i think that there also was another incident in the 1884 campaign where he went out to dinner while he was in new york. with this incredibly wealthy bunch of millionaires, maybe all the top millionaires in new york. and despite the fact that new york and the country was in a great depression and struggling greatly. he seemed to be completely blind to the inappropriateness. >> well, that was the very day he was witness to the reverend's speech. in the evening he did del monaco's restaurant in new york. had a was reported to the press immediately -- >> right. boodle feast. >> 13 years in the u.s. house of representatives during the

period of reconstruction, we are in his study. he has his congressional desk in there. and -- the period of time of reconstruction, where was he on the issues regarding reconstruction? >> it is interesting. my sense is that he was largely a moderate which would have helped to make him provide some bond to the nation. and if they say he was quite successful in taking congress in one of the most difficult times of its history and smoothing a lot of feathers. but he was also an early advocate of black suffrage which i find quite interesting. that would not have been considered a moderate position. and i think that -- myself, my sense is that that was more opportunistic than anything else. he was among those who believe that black suffrage was important and not because it was important for blacks but because -- important to give blacks the votes so they rote republican and vote for him.

>> he also -- talking about his enemies. he had a very well-known enemy with a very publicized fight in that period, roscoe. who is roscoe? >> he is a congressman from new york. >> i can't speak so individually about him either. i know there was a struggle between the two of them which led to a historic fight on the floor of the house of representatives. congressman from utica. we have a clip about it from the senate historian, don rich xwrip let's listen. >> at that period, the two leading republican politicians were roscoe conklin and james g. blaine, u.s. senator from maine. they were both dynamic and they were both articulate. her magnetic personalities. attractive, lots of people to them. would give a speech at the convention, not just the convention -- out of its minds.

so terrific on the stump and in any kind of orator write. they were legislative geniuses. they hated each other with an absolute passion. political figures, hated each other as much as roscoe conkling and blaine. partly because they were about if similar t same age, the same ambition. they knew one or the other would stand in the way of the other getting to the white house at some point. the rivalry started back when they were in the house of representatives in the 1860s. and roscoe conkling was anna mane man. handsome. dressed to the nines. strutted about in a way that made some of the rest of the members uncomfortable. kept it out way that never had good words for anyone. but james blaine was a young upcoming politician for maine. wasn't afraid to take out

anyone. in a debate at one point in 1866, he launched in into one of the most savage attacks on members of congress. today under the rules you couldn't attack another member that way. it was full of sarcasm and illusions to the hyperion curl and the turkey gobbler's strut in which he walked around. it was impressive. secondly, it gave tremendous amount of -- i mean, initiative to the editorial cartoonists. from then on they were always making -- conflict into a turkey or some other figure. >> what you are looking at on your screen is here in the blaine house, augusta, maine, and -- the -- blaine study, that is actually chaise lounge. we listen to the characterization there. politics is colorful today but

turkey gobbler strut and other things people used to say to one another. was it widely reported to the press? how did the stories get passed along to us? >> indeed, the -- the press was very lively in those days. we have already said. it was very -- >> sit in the galleries of congress? >> very much so. and then, of course, the way in which the information was translated to other newspapers around the country was lou the telegraph. and stories would be written and then they would be telegraphed to other papers. and then copied in some cases from other papers as well. >> we have another call. i think there was -- there was -- not just about the politics but about the entertainment value it had. and great writing and clever phrasing. >> before there were big sports teams, people followed politics. >> next is helen watching in cape may, new jersey.

helen, you are on. >> caller: hi. this is a wonderful series. thank you so much. all my students are watching. they are going to be tested. i hope they are watch. >> we have teachers here. glad they are there are students involved. >> caller: i have a question about the blaine amendment. he tried to have an amendment to the constitution. states adopted the blaine amendment. what -- was there anti-catholic motivation or some other motivation that went along with it? >> more than 20 states have blaine amendments even though it was not successful on the national level. what was his motivation? >> close to 40. >> 37. >> 37. wow. >> blaine amendment was an amendment that he proposed that would prevent schools from using federal funds.

religious institutions from using federal funding. >> that's still in place today. >> the separation of church and state. >> do you know if it ever had a supreme court challenge? made its way through the courts in these states? discuss the separation of church and state so often in this country. >> i'm not sure. >> why do we still know about the blaine amendments? >> that's an interesting question. maybe because there are attempts not from the supreme court side, but from individuals who are constantly trying to challenge that separation, i imagine. >> what motivated him in putting it forward? >> well, i think that it -- it was 1875. i think that he may well have already had his eye on that 1876 election and may have been opportunistically picking an issue and i'm not thinking there is an anti-catholic component to it as well since those were the institution it is catholic schools would have been most likely to be trying to not be

taxed and use federal fund. >> what was blaine's religion? >> he was congregationalist. >> did he have a catholic parents? >> yes, his mother. yes. but he attended the south parish church here in augusta. and, in fact, there are beautiful -- tiffany memorial windows to he and other members of his family in that church. >> we have a viewer from d.c. calling us next named ron. you are on the air. >> caller: oh, hi. >> we can hear you. >> caller: thanks for hosting this series. i have been watching c-span for many years and all the programs have been so great. i just want to say thank you first. my question to the chinese exclusion act. at that time i believe that most new england republicans were against the chinese exclusion act. because they had -- had to be mor it. i wonder what if -- why was -- not so liberal in civil rights at that time compared with the or new england republicans. and i would like to learn about it. thank you.

>> i think that, again, it is -- it is similar to elizabeth's recent answer on another issue. that is that this is a man who always had his eye on the presidency and the presidency you needed to do it from a nationwide perspective and i think he recognized particularly in the west and especially in california that chinese immigration was a major issue. and he wanted those votes. >> what i am taking away from this is that this is a man he said he wanted that presidency desperately. that -- that was not ideologically driven so much as had his finger to the political wind? >> i think that's one way to interpret his political career. and i think when i dash when i think about the pro black suffrage policy and think of the same time about the chinese exclusion act policy, i find it hard to bring those two together.

if he was racially progressive, why would he not be racially progressive on the other side? so that's -- an indication, i think, of sort of a -- opportunistic approach. and very ambitious. >> morristown, new jersey. welcome to the conversation. >> caller: was blaine so obsessed with the presidency he considered himself a failure for not having obtained it? >> that's an interesting question. >> i don't think we get that sense. i think what happened, you know, he went through the process three times. 1876, 1880, 1884. he was also, you know, dangled in front of him in 1888 and 1892. even though he was then a very ill man. but i think he felt the end of his life, really great accomplishment was that second term of secretary of state between 1889 and '92.

and there he was able to play out a lot of his ideas and not only on the national scene but on the international scene as well. and so, you know, i -- i don't think that he viewed his career as a failure. >> you are watching c-span's contenders series. special series for this fall. we will take a very short break and tell you about more -- more about this series. >> "the contenders" and our look at the life of james g. blaine continues live in a moment. the contender features profiles of key figures who have run for president and lost, but changed political history nevertheless. for more information on our series "the contenders," go to our website at c-span.org. you will find a schedule of the series.

biographies of all the candidates. historians' appraisals and portions of their speeches when available. that's all at c-span.org/thecontenders. we now return to maine and our discussion on the life of james g. blaine. >> you are looking at a live picture of the james g. blaine house in augusta, maine, state capitol. it is now the official residence of maine's governor, has been since 1920. we are live tonight inside of governor's mansion. guest of the governor and his family. to learn more about the house's longtime owner, james blaine, won the nomination in 1884, failed to win the presidency and yet made a mark this country we are learning more about mitt. our two guests joining us earl, maine state historian. elizabeth leonard, history department chair at colby college and specialist in civil war america. we are taking your telephones calls. i'm going to give thank you phone numbers. we are getting great questions tonight. 202-737-0001 for eastern and

central time zones. 202-737-0001 we welcome your involvement in this. tell me about maine -- little bit more about maine and this time period. we talked about earlier on about him coming here as a young man. how difficult would it have been for him to establish himself? >> i think that he had a very good connection with his wife's family. they were a prominent family here in augusta. and actually that connection for him to become the editor of the journal was essentially made by family and friends who wanted his wife back here and also wanted to make that opportunity available to him as well. he came really at a perfect time. 1850s, decade just before the civil war. maine is really at a zenith of prosperity and there is a --

recession in the late 1850s. generally speaking, maine is really cresting in both its economic and its political force at that time. >> last week we were at the home of henry clay. were there connections between james g. blaine and henry clay? >> there were in a sense that he had grown up in a house where clay was absolutely idolized and clay was an idol for him as well. and when he was a young man he spent some time in kentucky actually. and working as a teacher and he made the point of seeing clay whenever he could when he was in kentucky. and so he was -- he was a -- very devout fan. >> i think one there is one account at the age of 17, he attended one of clay's major speeches in 1847 and took copious notes on it. >> our next caller in our discussion about james g. blaine is from indianapolis. this is edward. >> caller: hi. how are you? >> great, thanks. your question? >> caller: what was the role of blaine as secretary of state under benjamin harrison?

>> okay. if you would do that briefly because we are going to spend a little more time later on this. >> he served under three presidents as secretary of state. is that correct? >> yes, garfield, arthur and then harrison. and the harrison was the long period. i mean, the garfield was just within less than a year's time about nine months. but when -- with harrison, he was really won -- in a wonderful position because he reached the zenith of his career. he was viewed as powerful if not more powerful than the president himself. and he had this free rein to develop ideas in terms of international relations. and his particular interest during the 1889 to '82 period was central and south america. he developed including the idea for the pan american union and so on. >> that's right. i want to get more involved in

that later on. let me ask you about in the study here there are a few memorabilia pieces connected with abraham lincoln. what would his -- supporter of abraham lincoln. did he know them that we know of? >> i don't know he knew him personally. he had met him. >> yes. of course, he went to congress. he was elected to congress in 1862. and so he would have served in washington from 1863, lincoln was assassinated on april 14. 1865. this a -- will is a poignant reminder his connection with lincoln at the house. and that is that there is a little card literally seven days before lincoln is assassinated. blaine went to lincoln to get permission to visit richmond, virginia, which had just fallen. capital of the confederate was right. we know from other instances that he would have had opportunities to meet and talk with lincoln.

we also know that he was so -- an admirer of lincoln that when he built the addition to the house in 1872 for the study, he wanted to use the very same wallpaper in his study that lincoln had used in his cabinet room. >> we are showing that wallpaper to people as you speak on the screen. that was the part that you saw. i believe it -- replica of -- >> that's right. original. >> with permission slip to travel to richmond. >> exactly. >> which would have been necessary at the time. waterville, maine. glad to have a maine person involved in the discussion. alled -- alexander, you are on the air. >> caller: yes. i was wonder what other acts he used against cleveland to prove he had child out of wedlock? thanks. >> thank you. >> as far as i know that was his primary personal attack against him. of course there would have been political attacks against him as a democrat and representative of the party that had -- fermented the rebellion.

>> how scandalous would it have been and in this time period for someone to have a child out wedlock? >> oh, i think it would have been quite scandalous. yes. >> i would think so, too. >> to answer that question a little more. there were -- nuts and bolts issues to the campaign at 1884. and one of the strong issues that the republicans and democrats differed on in the post civil war period was the tariff. you know, how much to tax goods coming and going. and the tariff was a major factor. >> and i believe currency was also. >> oh, very much so. and had been since the civil war because, of course, the civil war had proliferated the use of paper currency. >> right. >> and so the whole issue of greenback currency was very much in the 1870s and '80s. >> and into the '90s. >> exactly. and it gaves way to the issue. >> houston is up next and our caller's name is james. hello, james. >> caller: hello.

>> james, you're on the air. go ahead, please. >> caller: okay. well, you said -- mentioned the civil war governor. i just -- the first republican governor was actually my great-great-great grandfather. i wonder what his role will play. additionally, i think that the rift with conkling may have cost blaine new york and may have cost him the presidency. so some of his pulling the lion's tail came back to haunt him, i think. >> he was a little older than blaine. hanibal hamlin. he was a little bit older than blaine. he was born on 1809 in oxford county. he was a highly skilled lawyer who had served as governor of maine briefly and became became a senator. and then in 1860 he's chosen as lincoln's running mate for vice president. and serves as the vice president of the united states from 1861

to '65. and then after the war, he goes back into political life again as a senator. so he would have been very much a part of blaine's world in the republican party in maine. hannibal hamlin was a -- powerful towering figure in that period. and he would have interacted constantly with blaine. >> he was someone who stood against chinese exclusion. he was a republican who stood against blaine on the issue of chinese exclusion. >> elizabeth, i would like to have you -- since we are in a period of time that you hear people bring up the question of maybe it is time for a new party. that the two-party system is failing us. this was a period when we saw the evolution of political parties from the -- to the republicans take a minute or so and explain about the demise of the wigs. and the rise of the republicans. >> i think the demise of the wigs have very much associated

with the person you were talking about in your program last week with henry clay. when henry clay died, that was very -- he was so closely linked to the wig party that the wig party really collapsed. it wasn't just about henry clay. it was also about the slavery issue and the anti-immigrant issue. a number of other issues that led to the development of this sort of political chaos which gave way to the republican party but also the split in the democratic party over the 1850s. >> we would love to introduce you to books. our guest elizabeth leonard has just seen today for the first time. her fifth book. and take a minute and tell us about this character you are writing about here. >> joseph holt was lincoln's judge advocate general. he was a very important figure in lincoln's administration. he was the chief of military justice. and after lincoln was assassinated he was the prosecutor of the lincoln assassins and anybody who has

seen the film, the -- conspirator, then went -- "the conspirator," has seen a represent take of joseph holt. which is more than i can say before the book came out. nobody knew who he was. now some people know who he was. >> congratulations. it will be available. we are going on -- in a historic house. it is, you know, it is not the top of the hour, it is a couple minutes early here. the clocks are ringing. you will hear a couple of them at this -- at the top hour here as we get into the second half of our program. let me take another telephone call from michael. watching us in tampa. >> caller: i think your show is wonderful. i appreciate the historical commentary as well as the interviewer's commentary. can we put forth personal commentary versus blaine's period of time compared to today's political landscape? >> what do you mean? just give me a little more of what you would like. >> caller: i think blaine represents something that's

pretty dominant in the american populists today, not being representative. and i think blaine was very inspiring to hear about this side actually. and i'm curious of maybe some personal input from all three of you relative to that landscape of then versus today. >> thanks very much. i will ask both of our guests to talk about that. >> i have to say i'm not quite sure what he's looking for. if you are asking whether i think that he's a politician perhaps who would be recognizable today, i guess maybe i would say it is -- i would think he might be recognizable in his ability to know the political system, to manipulate the political system, to be a real career politician. he's a certain type. >> could he have competed in today's -- let's do a then and now. could a person with his characteristics been successful in today's political world? >> i -- >> with his corruption -- >> well -- >> what would be different about that? >> right. >> good question. i think though, he had a lot of

personal skills that probably would stand him in good stead today. i mean, clearly, to be an effective leader, you -- you need to have a charismatic personality. you need to be able to get your message across well. and these are things that he did very successfully. and also, he really understood the behind-the-scenes working of the political scene really from the 1850s right into the 1890s. >> we talked about the media being so supportive of parties. would it -- someone that had persistent charges against him, were there charge business the media? >> certainly. even so today we investigate people's corruption all the time and they still proceed with their careers. >> phoenix, up next. this is josh.