690 women die out of 100,000 giving birth. and so increasing every day, i say to the people it is not acceptable. we must not accept a woman to die giving birth to another life. and i've also said that in the initiative on poverty is to encourage women and youth get involved in the production of cash crops that have export potential. this is short-term, in order for people to see that there is something they should look forward to. and in the six weeks i have launched the construction of two shelters so that women can get to clinics a week or two before to wait there so that they don't die walking the long distance to the clinic. in the long-term, you must begin to show the people that we

must -- that's enough said, we must change from aid to trade. but also to begin to strengthen our governors' institutions. i have also deliberately spoken again and again about tackling corruption and putting in place institutions that would tackle corruption but also to follow up cases that have been lying there because people did not want to tackle them. so in the long-term, it's concentrated on the economic recovery to strengthen a governors' institutions, but to also to begin to bring back the confidence of our donors and partners that had worked our way, because that really, really devastated malawians, particularly breaking operations with the uk. so these are things that you do in order to bring people aboard and to build the confidence that

you require for people to move along with you. >> and administrator clark, what i'm hearing is that we talk about these broad concepts, development, democracy, security, but when i hear each of you speak, you're talking about specific steps that you have to take that make those things a reality. is that a big part of what it means to choose? >> absolutely. i had the privilege of nine years governing in my country. i know you can't tackle everything at once. you pick your fights. you prioritize very deliberately and clearly as to what can you do in what time frame. you can't do everything at once, but you can put in the building blocks which you then build further on as you have the time and opportunity. and looking at the issues which confront countries coming out of crisis, by the time our presence are in place, the constitution is written, the elections have

been held, those things have been done. but then the priorities move to how do you actually build the capacity of your government to deliver, and service delivery becomes very important as part of building confidence as well. you need to build the capacity of the parliament, which is such an important organ of democracy for scrutinizing government and the other institutions which ward against corruption, et cetera. the role of reform of the security sector is extremely important. generally, people have very little faith in the security sector, the police and so on. so a big job to do there. the role of the judiciary has to be built. then there is the work on the basic reconstruction. and it can take a long time to get to the significant infrastructure, but at least the basics of shelter and so on have to be begun. and then i stress again, all important livelihoods. you know, people need to eat.

they need a way of earning a living. and i think with the development partners can be quite helpful is in the cash for work kinds of schemes which get income back into people's pockets and enable the microeconomy to start again. inclusion, we have mentioned a great deal. and i think as a priority for the public money that is available, and there often isn't much, education and skills. because we're all talking about this huge youth generation, which wants to fulfill its potential and it is frustrated. and if we don't deal with the hopes and dreams of young people, then all our societies are in trouble. it is a big and complicated agenda, but just pick your way through it very deliberately. >> president robinson, what advice do you have? if you would presume to give advice, what -- as you hear the difficult choices that these

leaders are having to make every single day? >> what i was struck with when i was listening is the commitment, but also the willingness to be innovative. and i remember in 2009 being in liberia for an international symposium, and president johnson-sirleaf with the support of another woman president at the time of finland brought together. and there was criticism of ellen for daring to have an international symposium when her country was still trying to have the basic infrastructure. even hotels people could stay in. i remember this very well. but in fact it was great for not just the women of the country, but the pride of the country. and it changed some of the dynamics. so my sense is, and i'd say this particularly and to president banda, she is a new president in a country that she has already made some impact in.

from time to time do something bigger in order to -- and do it with partners, with outside partners of that kind, because then you continue in a symbolic way to drive that agenda. and, you know, it's not business as usual anymore. we have the extraordinary capacity of people themselves to link, and also people in the informal sector. and what amazes me at the moment whether it's the market women, the self-employed women's association, the slum dwellers and shack dwellers international, these are very poor people, but they're linking through the numbers that they are. and we have to address the unemployment of young people. and it has to be done in innovative ways. and i think the capacity to create these new kinds of partnerships, and i think women are good at partnering and good at linking out and listening to

foreign and better partnerships, including the business community. it has to take on much more of a role in development. and the last thing i would say, judy, because i have to, listening to the commitment of these distinguished women presidents dealing with their countries that are -- that they have to prioritize issues. each of them has prioritized democracy and the structures of democracy. are they getting good examples from some of the long-established democracies? you know, money is corrupting democracy in this country, and it is being followed in the rest of the world. the pacs and superpacs are undermining democracy. it's a concept that we have to be very vigilant about. [ applause ] >> actually bringing up democracy at the end is a perfect segue for me, because president banda, how -- what does democracy look like to you right now in the world? is democracy still appealing as

a form of government? because there are criticisms of democracies and the way democracies work. they're not all perfect, as we know. what does democracy look like to you right now? is it as appealing as it once was? how do you know that it's the right path for your country? >> i have always said that yes, democracy for the whole world. but i think each part of the world will have one day to develop their own and call it democracy. because, for example, in other parts of the world, they didn't have democracy. they had what looked like auto-cratic governments. and what we see now is total

chaos. is that what we want? i don't know. but for us in africa, i think we are coming up with ours, a mix of democracy and a mix of us respecting our traditional and historical models where our chiefs, our local leadership still exists and we respect them. and they have the final say at grassroots level. and i'm taking total advantage of that in my maternal health program. because the chiefs, i engage the chiefs because a chief once he says in his village, every woman shall deliver the clinic, every woman shall go. but that would be seen as autocratic. but for me that is an advantage for me as i fight. >> so, yes, democracy is good and is flourishing in malawi. i think i wouldn't be sitting here if our democracy hadn't

matured. but i think each part of the world will have to have their own, what they consider to be a democracy. >> president johnson-sirleaf, what about in liberia? what is -- you have a different history from every other country. of course every country's history is unique. what does democracy look like to you right now? is it as easy to embrace the concept of democracy today as it has been? >> today i think democracy as exemplified in the liberian experience are the basic things we know, the promotion of basic freedoms, freedoms of expression, association, religion. the right of the people to participate in the decisions that affect their lives, the rights of them to question and insist on accountability, transparency by their governments.

but i think we ought to be very mindful of what mary said when she talked about democracy being corrupted by money. when i campaign in liberia in the '80s, we went to the villages, and we were hosted by villages. they fed you, they provided for you. when i campaign in 2011, i had to carry t-shirts and caps. [ laughter ] all the goodies to which they feel entitled, you know. and the ante keeps going up. and you have to go to china to bring them in containers. but the basic of democracy remains the same. we just have to put a check on what is happening to pollute it. >> on how much you give away.

president jahjaga, what does democracy look like to you? what does it mean to you? is it the same as what it felt like five, ten years ago? >> definitely it's not the same. the democracy of the level of today and democracy of about four years ago or 13 years ago, democracy, it is a very achievable thing. but at the same time, it is also a quite of a challenging process. the democracy by many people can be understood especially on the beginning, like the freedom of the expression and freedom of the speech. but sometimes i found that quite often with the recent examples that the democracy people expect a very quick results. when there is not a quick results, then they become quite disappointed. democracy is not the process that you started today and you finished by tomorrow.

it's a life-lasting process. with the process of democracy, people must have the access on the information. that brings into the light the level of the interaction between the government and between the people. the governments are there to serve the people, and not the people to serve the government. and that the logic has to be inserted. the process of the democratization in my country has lasted longer than we expected. mary has mentioned the issue of the example of the democracy. i have a message here that there is no copy-based system. it's nothing that you can take it out from kosovo and you can insert it in burma, insert it in liberia or anywhere else.

no. this is where it's falling the biggest lag within the international community. the international community should come and hand-to-hand with the local government to start the process of the democracy, and not to try and impose or try to force the system, because it's not going to work out. i always use the silly example. what if yes everywhere in the world means yes like that, but in albanian and bulgaria means yes like that. so the only body language in the world can by receiving those kind of changes will reflect a very different -- will reflect very differently. in my country, the process of building the democratization has been done hand-to-hand with a local institution and international partners. every process has been planned in advanced, how that would be

reflecting. maybe the great example could work out in ireland or in finland, but can definitely not work out in the mentality of kosovo. so the country has to adopt the experience and expertise to their own needs and own specification. within the country in order to be more received and more used within the country. >> whom should hear that message? whom do you want to hear that message that you so passionately just shared with us? >> the message has to be across from the local leaders from the community, but also -- >> who do you want to hear? >> also the international communities. >> okay. >> there has to be flexibility within their mission mandate. there is not a fixed mission mandate. there has the mission mandate prior reaching to the ground. it has to be preplanned and has

to be jointly planned with the local actors or within the country. because it cannot function in just trying to come and insert it within the country, because it will definitely not have an effect. >> administrator clark, is that realistic in the way things work today in the world? >> well, i was going to tackle the question is democracy appealing as a form of government. >> you can do both. >> yeah. and make a value statement. it is the best of all available options, because what is the alternative? to govern without consent? to give the people no choice in who rules? and of course we see some authoritarian regimes get away with lack of consent for quite a long time. but there come tipping points. and those tipping points may be economic hardship. they may be the growing despair of youth in ever getting a job. they may be the further impoverishment of the poor, which came with the global recession.

tipping points for the growing middle class, the organization of workers, the organization of students. and of course another tipping point i think with the role of information and communications technologies, which has had an extraordinary democratizing effect in a number of countries. so i think democracy has its safety valves built into it. it provides a way of peacefully changing rulers. but i think mary and others are right to stress the point about being vigilant with democracy because too much money sloshing around is corrosive of democracy. too much concentration of media ownership is corrosive of democracy. and i think a number of wisdom of democracy is challenged by these issues at the moment as to how do you provide for freedom of expression and voice but not let that become overweaning because over concentration of power. >> do you think the

international community is prepared to hear the kind of message we just heard from president jahjaga that democracy needs to work at the ground level, it needs to listen to what the community wants, that it can't be imposed from the outside? >> well, i think each country has to craft its own design. but we go back to the fundamental principle. if we believe that people have a right to choose who governs, we can build our own unique ways of doing it from there. of course, the constitution of kosovo isn't going to on account look like the constitution of new zealand because we don't have one. but it will be its own creation. but if it respects that basic power of the people to choose, then i think it will have integrity. >> president robinson, what about that? how much can a country tailor its own democracy to the needs of its own people? how much leeway is there? >> well, as i think we've heard

from the -- from all of us, i think, that has to be the starting point, and that you build with your community. and that's the essential voice. then the international community as much as possible should support the way in which that would develop. and i'm involved in an interesting way of assessing how countries are doing in governance in the continent of africa. it's the -- i'm on the board and on the prize committee of the mo ibrahim foundation. and the ibrahim index covers the 54 countries as it now is and the continent of africa. and in fact we'll have to wait now because of sudan and south sudan until the data becomes clear. so they'll probably be excluded for a year or so. but all of the other countries are being ranked for their economic development, human rights, tackling poverty. and you can actually see in the index the countries that are making progress. and it's very interesting to see, for example, liberia is

coming up the index as president sirleaf johnson knows. countries like zimbabwe have gone down for reasons that are understandable. this is the index that has the merit of being created by an african. mo ibrahim is born in sudan, is a businessman, who made a lot of money putting in cell phones in african countries without corruption cell tell and put his money back into this foundation. we don't measure the performance of democratic governments very effectively. it's left far too much to politicians making rhetorical speeches rather than what are they actually doing. can you measure the delivery of services to people? can you measure improvements on health and education? and this is what this foundation is doing, which i think is a very innovative example. >> i want to turn -- we can't have this extraordinary group of leaders without asking the

question about how much difference it makes or does it make a difference, president johnson-sirleaf, to be a woman in a position. are there -- is there a material difference in what you're able to do and how you're perceived by the people who chose you? how do you see that? you've had a chance over the years to think about this a lot. >> yes, it does make a difference. [ laughter ] liberia has been ruled by men for all its 176 some years. the first time we've made in progress in six years. no, but really, i do believe that women leadership bring a certain dimension to the

management, to the leading and what, and that caring and sharing, that sensitivity. to the needs of humankind that i think comes from being a woman, from being a mother. but at the same time, it does not and should not take away from a woman's competitiveness, a woman's capacity and ability to lead and to lead, you know, in a world today that requires a certain amount of qualification, a certain amount of technocratic abilities. but once those are in place, those qualifications are in place, then i think a woman leads. and quite frankly, i think a woman is more committed and more honest. [ laughter ] >> what about the fact that you're a woman in your position, president banda? again, you've been there only

weeks, but you've had a chance in your previous position, of course, to look at this, think about this. >> let me start by saying what happened three days ago in washington. malawi came to have a meeting with me. and the spokesperson said we have had three presidents. what is it that you're going to do differently? we've been disappointed before. and i said well, they were not women. [ laughter ] and what i was trying to say was that -- i was trying to communicate that this was my personal conviction that women look at leadership different. it is their value systems. for me, being a leader is about being -- serving the people. i have never entered my mind

that i could rule, but that i would lead and i could serve. and that's why i talked about area, about it being a love affair. it is the principle of stewardship. that is why when i -- for 30 years, that's what i was trying to do in malawi. people in malawi know that without having any motive, i worked with the people at grassroot. and my agenda was one to empower fellow women, particularly grassroot women. i was coming from an abusive marriage, and i decided nobody else was going to take that -- go that path. if there was anything i could do to change their situation, i was going to do it. so i went flat-out for 30 years. so by the time i got into this position, everybody knew what i had been able to do before, how i had fought for women's rights and children rights, how i had marched with them on the roads.

and so i believe that being a woman is the best -- a woman leader is the best a country can have. now in africa, fortunately for us, men and women have agreed that they should allow women to participate in leadership. and at this point, allow me to turn to president sirleaf. in my country, the youth went out again and again telling the people it's possible to have a woman leader because there is ellen sirleaf. and she is doing well. [ applause ] it is -- it is the support in africa that we give, we must give to one another in order to encourage and to promote and to support more women to enter the relationship. and there is the ability to underground matters. in malawi, mrs. robinson came to

malawi with me. they don't have to say -- make a political statement, but just by coming as she said earlier to do something big for women is enough to begin to build that confidence in the people in you. because when she came, we opened together a maternity clinic. everybody in malawi knows i am not joking when i talk about fighting maternal mortality. and as i went through my problems in three days, we went to ghana with president ellen sirleaf. and president ellen sirleaf made a statement that we cannot just stand by and watch a woman suffer and be abused and be threatened with death. and at the end of that conference, they made a statement. a resolution was made that all women in africa were going to support joyce banda to get into leadership. and because of that, women's networks in africa issued statements condemning the government of malawi for

treating me the way they were. all i am saying is while we know that women make better leaders? in africa it will be necessary for all of us to stand together and support one another and bring more women into leadership. and i can say without any fear of contradiction that i'm looking at five years with four or five women presidents on the continent of africa. [ applause ] >> next time i'm going to ask you a question about something about which you feel passionately. president jahjaga, what about you? how is being a woman affecting, changing your ability to lead in kosovo? >> actually, it really does make a change to have the woman in the leadership role.

and the responsibility are the same everywhere, if you are the man or you are the woman president. but there is an added responsibility of the woman which they have to give more of theirselves. they have to show more. and they are i consider and also from the research that has been found that the women are better in the process of the decision-making. why? because they are more inclusive on the process of the decision-making. and they have more ability to listen, which in the process of the decision-making you need, particularly in the head of the state, you need that balance of to be able to have full participation and be inclusive. and at the same time, to be able to authority to listen.

also, women's have the ability to building of bridges of the cooperation. and building of the soul of the consensus between the leadership, which is not the case -- my country has been for centuries and for decade business the males. but only one year ago, since one year ago, there is almost a consensus in every matter which is state-related or if it is for the major interest of the country. what is also -- which has been mentioned is that the women's are less to be corrupted. they are to be committed on what they are doing. and they do it with a full passion. and they have a zero tolerance towards the negative matters. recently