reporter noted doing the honors of occasion and providing with grace all her own was dolley. you're looking at a dress belonging to first lady dolley madison that is out that have been made from the red velvet curtains she saved from the white house as british troops advanced on washington. this is "american history tv" on c-span3, where we are taking your calls and comments on the war of 1812. i want to open up the phone lines with a remind the numbers for those on the east coast and central time zones is 202-737-0001.

in the mountain and pacific time zones it's 0002. make sure you mute your television when you call in. we will get to your calls on the war of 1812, in particular in this segment on the burning of washington. we are jound by anthony pitch, whose sbook "the burning of washington: the british invasion of 1814." thank you for joining us today. >> thank you for having me. >> you have brought along nobel your book but an act fact. we saw an artifact of dolley madison. this is of james madison. tell us what your viewers will see here in a minute. >> this came up for auction five years ago. this check. the auctioneer had misread the name of the person it was made out to. they wrote -- i knew it was roger chew wightman, dragged into the white house by the admiral as they were preparing to burn the white house, and the check was made out by james

madison to wightman 23 days before burning the white house. it's probably for books, because wightman was a book seller and he was dragged in to represent the humiliation of the americans. he was the only american in the white house, the british bandit, and so i knew knowing more about the providence of this check that it was going to be very valuable. of the fact that wightman was the only person in the white house who wa an american. he later became mayor of washington. he was a notable grand mason, and so that's why i brought it. >> how long had washington been the seat of government by 1814?

how long had it been the -- >> 1800. john adams came down in 1800, because the capitol ual used to in philadelphia, and he was the first president to live in the white house. every president has lived there except george washington. >> what was the city like in 1814? >> it was a mere embryo of what testimony aspired to be. it was a gawky village. it was so forgone that there was a british diplomat who wrote back to his mother after he saw the president in torn slippers greeting foreign diplomats, he said, dearest ma, luckily for me i've been in turkey and am quite at home in this simplicity of manners. >> what was the white house like in 1814? >> the white house was run down. it was leaking. it was unfinished when the adams' moved in, and it was leaking for a long time.

it was for many, many years in a state of disrepair. >> why did the british select washington as a target? what was their goal? >> twofold. the year before the americans had invaded canada, and they'd burn and plunderred some of the public and private buildings most notably in york, whiches is now toronto, and in some -- most recently in some of the villages on the niagara frontier. those were the american -- so this was payback, but it was also to strengthen the american morale, because admiral coburn, he was the driving force behind the attack on washington. he told the british commander, overall commander of british forces in north america, that the fall of a capital is always a great road to the government of the country. so he knew this would be a struggle, it would really, really hurt americans'

self-esteem and it would be a blow to their morale. >> calls waiting for anthony pitch, hi tore yarnyarn -- historian. >> caller: good morning, excellent show. it's my understanding that president madison personally, physically, commanded the troops in the battles, making him one of the only two presidents who personally had the front command of troops during his tenure, and then, also, as a former marine, our belief is that the c commandant of the marine corps' house, not far from the existing white house, still today, was not burned because of the british respect for how the u.s. marines fought in the battle. any comments? >> those are two very good question, but i have to correct the -- he described himself as a former marine. once a marine always a marine. i learned the hard way. addressed somebody as former marine. it's quite correct to say that

james madison was the first president on the battlefield to face incoming enemy fire. at the battle he was in the knot of cabinet secretaries and rockets passed over them, only then did they ride out of range. a lot of people, including the national parks service, keep repeating in their literature that abraham lincoln was the first in fort stephens, as the confederates approached washington during the civil war. lincoln did face enemy fire. in fact, he almost got killed, he was so reckless, but he was not the first. james madison is the first president to face incoming enemy fire. >> what about his confer about the--of--o the--of--o question about -- >> that is probably myth. there are a lot of myths about this occupation of washington. they did not destroy the

commandants house at the navyyard, because they mistook it for private property, and they had pledged only to attack public property. and it was public property, but they didn't know that. the marine corps, there is no documentary evidence that i came across, why that house survived. i don't know. it's one of those things that is passed down all of tradition that he admired the marine, because the marines gave as good as they got. there were 114 of them. they fought magnificently. >> how many british were there? >> the british? there were around 1,200 fighting. the americans vastly outnumbered the british, but the british were the finest army in the world, and most of the defenders and militiamen couldn't possibly

hold a candle to these regulars from britain. >> our viewers are seeing individual grow fort mchenry. re-enactors at fort mchenry. over the weekend, selling is the 200th anniversary of the start of the war. jackie, go ahead with your comments. >> caller: hello. i'm a graduate of western reserve university in cleveland and i understand that the westerns are referred to -- that the connecticuts -- it was also for -- these people were given land in the western reserve of connecticut which is northeastern ohio. >> i have to pass on that, because my expertise is on washington. the belly of washington. >> also you twleet ywrote about about a hated figure because of burnings not just washington, but before that on the shore of

maryland? >> the british had been plundering, pillaging, doing other misdeeds, ordering the chesapeake bay, and by doing this the year before they captured washington. so the newspapers had been reporting this all the time. and so the public was aware of coburn's successes. one american offered to a reward of $1,000 for his head and $500 for each of his ears. he was the quintessential 19th century supersydous arift dprat britain pap very haughty man. coburn. but he had excelled for a young age. he was at sea before he was a teenager. he came to the attention of the greatest admiral of the day, horatio nelson, who described coburn as being brave, courageous and zell outside.

zealous. and coburn was later selected by the british military to take the former emperor napoleon into skyle on t exile and while walking the deck coburn wrote in his diary that napoleon tried to act still as a sovereign. i cannot allow that. that shows how overbearing he was. what kind of character he was. >> our topic is the burning of washington. the british invasion of 1814, and our guest is the author of the book, anthony pitch. we hear from princeton, new jersey, next. theresa, welcome to the program. >> caller: thank you. it's a telling image to think about dolley saving some of her husband's paper, burt i would like to know what efforts were made to save government papers in general before the attack, and was there changes, how they were kept after that?

>> that's a good question. dolley did save a lot of the papers. her husband had asked her to do that. she got a carriage the day before the british arrived. it was filled mostly with government papers, as the expense of their personal property, most of which was destroyed. but on capitol hill, there was turmoil, pandemonium, fear, confusion. and most of the government agencies remained staffed, because most of the clerks were over 45 and exemption caught up to them. in the basement of the house of representatives, nearly all the offices were empty, because most of the clerks were young people, and so any j.t. foster individual was there. weak authority with the need to make rapid decisions of national importance and he had no idea what to dop and a colleague of his had been calmed up into the military and he send message and

came back with one cart, four oxen, taken from a man who lived six mimes out of town and loaded up some papers from the capital and they drove into the countryside. at center of it, total confusion. nobody with administrative authority was on hand, and so two young people managed to get one cart, and one of them -- he drove this cart through washington having loaded the papers of the senate, which included its only copy of the executive history, and the positions and names of all the american -- right down to the gulf. these they managed to take eventually to the quaker village of brookville about 30 miles north of washington in maryland. that's where the sum of paper rees

reessremained -- papers remained. others, hours before the invasion and managed to save a lot of the state department papers. one that really, really counts is at the state department. this is -- this is one of the stories that you have to tell your children and your grond grandchildren, because when the british approached, the secretary of state was james monroe, and he scribbled a note to the state department, save the precious national documents. this young clerk, stephen, hurried, ordered them into bags and into these he and others, but he was chiefly instrumental, put the original copies of the deck krashgs declaration of independence, international treaties and george washington's correspondence. while something was being done the secretary of war passed by

and rebukd him for being an alarmist. he said they're not coming to washington. they're going to baltimore. and he stood up to the secretary of war, he loaded them into carts, drove two mimes above georgetown, put them in an abandoned mill and then had second thoughts. a spy could go there. he went 35 miles west to leesburg, virginia, put them in an empty house, checked into a hotel, and that night the british burned the white house. the next day the state department. had he not acted and defied the secretary of war, up would not be able to see the declaration of independence, the constitution and the national archives today. >> is it true that james madison carried the entire contents of the u.s. treasury with him? >> no, that's not true. at one of the banks, the bank of the metropolis, a block from the white house, they got word at 2:00 p.m., that's about eight hours before, seven hours before

the british arrived at the capitol, and alexander kerr, who was a cashier there, he grabbed a lot of the printed money, and escaped with it to maryland. the bank survived. they mistook it again for private property, but, no. that's not true. >> some of the images we're seeing on-screen from the national portrait gallery. the smithsonian the national portrait gallery and we thank them for that and the american historical society. also next for anthony pitch, nancy go ahead with your comment. >> caller: yes. i have an ancestor, his name was john burns and he lived in akron, new york, and he fought in the war of 1812. and i requested his war records and received a lot of documentation for where he tried to get, i guess, the land that

was supposed to be granted to him. later after he died, hi wife even tried to do that, and was never granted any land. so were there a lot of those tha were not given the land amp the war of 1812 is my question? because i really don't know a lot about the his trips that you're speaking of. that's why i'm listening today. >> again that really doesn't focus on the burning of washington. which i'm here to talk about. that's not my field. >> what was the size of the u.s. military force? >> marines, 114 fought at the battle. there were according to records i found 27,000 regulars, but spread thinly from the canadian frontier right down to the gulf. >> how many would have been in washington at the time? >> very, very few. the 114 were the best, finest

units amongst several thousand who fought at the battle. predominantly britishmen. >> you talk about the battle. how did the burning of washington unfold amp the british won there at blatantsberg? >> it's six mimes southeast of washington. the british approached that. they fought in the mid-day sun in august. it was so hot. 18 of their men died from heat exhaustion. within an hour, they had overwhelmed the americans, and the marines, as i said, fought so well, that the british, there's a scene of chivalry on the battlefield where the calm dorp joshua and an merp 55 years old was in charge of the regular surrender, and the marines were clustered around him. the british came up and they offered him his freedom in whichever direction he need pd then treated him like a brother. appointed a car. a british captain to look after him. he later said they've treated me

like a brother. and so they spoke. they waited and then arrived in washington at some set. and the american forces had fled through washington, through georgetown, into, they went as far as maryland, a lot of them. and there was nobody to defend. there were 8,000 residents who washington. and 9/10 of them had fled to the surrounding areas of maryland and virginia. so there was nobody to defend the city and the capitol, and they just took over. they were there 24 hours, and he went very quickly. they came in the evening. they left the following evening, because they were afraid of being cut off on their route back to their ships on the patuxent river about 45 mimes east. >> next call is in virginia. go-ahead, matt. >> caller: i was wondering if

mr. pitch could talk more about the store -- the storm that hit right after the burning, and if that was a tornado -- i mean a hurricane, and if the storm affected the british fleet out in the chesapeake bay? >> okay. the british arrived on wednesday night. they left on thursday night. around about 2:00 p.m. on thursday, a storm of unprecedented velocity and veracity struck the city. it limited cannons like featherweights. hoses were flattened. old homes were lifted up and dumps at random. it it was so terrifying, that people, veterans who lived through this had never seen anything like it. a brutaling force, the sky darkening. bolts of lightning illuminating

scenes of chaos. the rivers were rising and ships were not latched, were broken loose from their moorings. it didn't douse the flames. that's another myth. the flame was cornered four or five days after the british set fire to the public buildings. the capitol, white house and public building. people recorded seeing flames as long after the invasion as four or five days. so the british, like everybody else, just a sanctuary we thmp caught, and it doused not only the flames but it didn't extinguish them completely. >> we're saying great live video from our cameras at fort mchenry today. how did the battle of washington, burning of washington, set up the battle of fort mchenry? >> the british originally didn't want to go to fort mchenry to capture baltimore and then

changed their minds. it took almost a week for them to change their minds. had they gone immediately, many baltimoreans forecast that the city -- afterwards, even in correspondence before the battle of northpoint, that baltimore would have fallen. they were unprepared. they were demoralized. what happened after washington, it galvanized americans. everybody wanted to pay back. especially those who had been in the area. so when the british descended on baltimore, three weeks later, after having been in washington, there were 15,000 defendants. they'd swarmed in from surrounding counties and eastern pennsylvania and virginia. old men, young men. it was raining hard. the eastern hills, which were heavily fortified, were slashed with sudden trenches and even though the men were wet and tired and rung gri, they were

itching for payback. that's wap it did. it fired them up. >> we talk about the burning of washington and wonderful pictures we've seen's in reality the building survived, capitol survived, the white house survived. how badly were those buildings damaged? >> the capitol, a lot of it survived, because bring min harry latrobe, commissioner of public buildings in connection with the capitol, he had pioneered the technique, and they acted as firebreaks. and that's why -- and then when the british burned some of the rooms, the unlimited flames came towards them. pushed them back. so they were not able to advance and a lot of the capitol survived. the saddest thing of all that didn't survive was the library of congress. in-of-facing the modern mall and had no vault eed ceilings.

a very, very large room on the western edge of the capitol and it went up like a tinderbox and all 3,000 blocks were destroyed. ironically, most printed in britain and many of them about british parliamentary procedure. what happened next was amazing. thomas jefferson offered three weeks later his private library as the nucleus for a replacement for a new library of congress and said most of my books had been hand-picked by him in europe when he was minister to france, equivalent to babied and said there's no -- he was a renaissance man and you could see many of those books still in the library of congress, history, architecture, science, agriculture. he was into everything, and in many languages. and so congress liked the idea. they paid him just under $24,000. he said i have so many books. it will take two weeks to fim s

20 wagons and come from my home in monticello to this city. >> how long did it take to rebuild the white house and the capitol? >> the white house was rebuilt within three years, and the capitol took five year, because they kept alter, the plans, and they ran out of the original stone which the capital had been built with from a creek in virginia. that was no longer there. and so latrobe paced the countryside, from maryland, virginia and sound a fusion of speck manied rocks which he wrote to jeff zorn aerson as magnificen magnificence. these would reap place the house of representatives hall and in the senate chamber. if you go to the capital today, you will see those lower

chambers with stones of gray and they calmed it the stone marble. in many respects it was improved upon. the brilliance of the capitol. the capital was also of interest. it was always a symbol. when the -- at the beginning it was symbol of -- pride and aspirations of the young republic. after it was destroyed and rebuilt it became a symbol of unity and resilience and today it's a beacon on the hill there, which -- >> one more call for anthony pitch. this is brenda in newark, new jersey. go ahead. >> caller: yes. i just saw a very interesting documentary on the war of 1812 here in the metropolitan new york area on one of the tbs stations, and one of the things i learned amongst more balanced

view of the war of 1812, and one of the things i learned along time ago and fortunaunfortunate in the school, if you dissect the word history. it comes out to his story. and my understanding from the documentary i saw was one of the reasons that the british wanted to burn washington was because of the plundering and the burning that the american militia had done in canada. >> i'll let anthony pitch reply. thank you, brenda. >> yes, i already referred to that at the opening of this interview. it was part payback for americans in canada. you're right. burned, plundered, pillaged some of the private buildings, that is krenchts our guest, historian anthony pitch.

thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. you've been watching american history tv on c-span3. a look at the war of 1812, and if you've missed any of our programming and our conversation on the war of 1812 you'll find it in our video library at c-span.org and c-span.org/history. and today's programming on