tv [untitled] June 20, 2012 6:30pm-7:00pm EDT
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surging domestic natural gas production and shell formations has caused u.s. natural gas prices to plummet. low natural gas prices are good for american consumers. the last four years introduced from coal has fallen from roughly half to a little more than a third. we've added 41,000 megawatts of natural gas generation. the shift is not the result of the epa or anyone else in the administration. it is simple economics.
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our domestic natural gas production is at an all time high. that is a fact. that's what's going on here. utilities are increasingly moving to natural gas and renewables to generate elec electricity. the majority supports mountain top removal mining. a process that produces a product that companies are not choosing at this time. it makes no sense. i yield back. >> thank you. also, as is our practice when ever the chairman or ranking member of the full committee are here, they are invited to give a
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five-minute statement. i'll recognize representative hastings of washington. >> thank you. thank you for your courtesy as you've given that to me several times this year. there's no question over president obama's term in office, he and his administration have taken aim at shutting down coal production plants across the country. these direct attacks on america's hard working coal families have threatened tens of thousands of jobs. while some of the administration's actions have been deliberately slow to develop such as the unnecessary rewrite of coal regulation known as the stream buffer rule. others have been more bold and direct. the obama administration's epa decision to retroactively withdraw a permit was a bold
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assault on american coal production. a federal court ruled that epas and i quote, exceed its authority, end quote, under the clean water act revoke an already issued coal permit and such action required, and i quote, magical thinking, end quote. after a strong rebuke, the obama administration is appealing the judge's ruling and once again trying to inflict economic damage on an already struggling region. the spruce coal mine is a great opportunity for mining family who is are desperate for job creation. it's also an opportunity for more american energy production that will help support other american industries. unfortunately, this administration has tried everything to take this opportunity away from these hard working american families. this hearing was supposed to
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give committee members unfortunately, the obama administration officials that were invited to testify refused the invitation and refused to send anyone in their place. we heard a lot about openness and transparency from this administration. i just wish the obama administration had shown the same courtesy. mr. chairman, i'd like to take a moment to express how sadden we were to hear the passing of your father on tuesday. i understand your father served
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with honor in the second world war and was one of the five guards that participated in the trials. clearly his service, public service was passed on to the second generation. know that our thoughts and prayers are with you and your family as you go back through this difficult time. i yield back my time. >> thank you. moving on here. i would like to introduce the invited first panel, which was the honorable lisa jackson. the honor joseph and honorable joe ellen representing civil corp. of army engineers. >> it appears that not a single individual from the obama administration could take the time out from their ongoing work of laying burdens on the american economy and they cannot
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attend our hearing today. it's extremely disappointing that they invited, excuse, declined our invitations to speak and answer questions on an important issue that directly impacts the jobs and livelihoods of many americans. even if they are extremely busy today, which i understand, they could have sent someone in their place. since the obama administration has no time for us today to answer question, we will now call forward the second panel. state senator art of west virginia state senate. the honorable karen, president and ceo institute for 21st century energy. miss maria gutto. as you come forward, i'll lay out the ground rules.
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like all our witnesses, your written testimony will appear in full to written record. i ask you to keep your comments to five minutes as outlined and committee 4a. you have to press the button to start. i also explain how the timing light works. you'll see the clock in front of you that starts at five minutes. when it's down to one minute, a yellow light appears and after the five minutes are up, the red light comes on. you may begin. thank you for being here. >> mr. chairman, i want to thank you and the committee for the opportunity. i'm a senator from west virginia representing the 7th central district, which is in the deep south. prior to being nominated to the senate or appointed to the senate, i'm the democratic nominee this year.
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i was on the county commission for 30 years. so disturbing regarding the permit back in 1998. we had real tussle over thereabouts the opportunity to mine coal and as a commissioner, you set the budget for the constitutional office holders in the county, the sheriff and everybody else. all the public depends down. the cool kids, everybody depends on the ability to have life in a rural county. when this permit was disbanded, we lost 400 quality jobs. $29 million back in 1998. if you do the other jobs that support the coal industry, probably 1$100 million in that particular area. i had the cut the budget and tighten things up.
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we're in the 14th year. we're still not mining coal. let's look at the plus side of mining. we're in a challenge terrain. i think they say 28 degree slopes. we have no flat land. we now have a jail, an industrial park, an airport, a shopping mall and other things that give us a little diversification and the ability to be something other than just coal. i don't know about some of the other counties, but logan has done a pretty good job with parcels of post mine land. we set up a master land usage
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program. we could put in language in a mine permit to where we could take people out of flooded areas. we put them on a surface mine and leave it there instead of taking it all out and starting over. that's where you need to get in areas that mine coal. take care of people's livelihood. let these people have a life. millions of your dollars coming to our area. the troops, cleaning up our area. if those people had been on some of these surface mine areas that we had, that wouldn't have happened. if you think you can't get killed, go back to the buffalo creek flood a few years ago, 124 people. we're talking about the ability to produce energy that keep america safe. two makes us the ability from heat with other markets financially. when you can't get a permit, guess what happens? a lot of people don't
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understand. a few years from now it's going to be supply and demand. when we start depending on coal coming across the atlantic and pacific, they're going to have the supply. we're going to have the demand. we're 20 years away from alternative fuel where we don't need coal. we may not have domestic coal, that's the problem. we're going to sit back and watch the rest of the world flourish economically. they laugh at what we do. we're sitting here put our own self out of business. i want to do it the right way. i want to take it, used to be aoc, plan out what you would to do with the property, beautify it. put a school on it. put a community on it. if we mined all the coal in southern west virginia, it could be 3%. aisle telling you, we can make it on 97% of the mountains. second fact. i chair one of the most instrumental groups in america,
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atv, hatfield mccoy trail system. we occupy it in the same mountains. we've had visitors from all 50 states. we want to be a tourist area and mine coal too. the way we do it, we can do both. don't take data and put it back on us where we can't compete. bring a committee down. let me take you to some post mine land that's been re-done. i had the "60 minutes" crew in an airplane and they said where is the reclaimed area. i said you've been over it for 12 minutes, but they wouldn't believe what i told them. the deer and the land is better on post mine land than before.
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with that, thank you for the opportunity. let's be sensible and put america back to work. thank you very much. >> thank you for your testimony. >> thank you. let's be clear what the mine discussion is not about. it's not about mountaintop mining. it's not about whether coal or should not be part of our energy mix. it is about the rule of law and whether america is a safe place for long term investment. it is about the integrity of our regulatory process. it is about whether america is open for business. that's why this hearing is so important. one of our great strengths as a country is we hold the rule of law sack row sant. commerce would grinds to a halt.
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hundreds of businesses would be questioning if they too could have their permits retro actively rejected. the investments would dry up. the environmental safeguards and we recognize the transparent and regulatory system is valuable to both business and the environment. we also believe that government must honor the decisions it makes and operate within the law. to give a sense of scale and magnitude put it risk by epa's action it should be noted the army corps of engineers 60,000 permits annually and estimates that covers $220 billion of annual investments conditioned on those permits. it's not just a matter of mining or energy projects, it's for a
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dispute broadly. a reduction or construction will limit job growth. a study by the battle group estimated for every billion dollars of construction spend g spending, we generate 18,000 jobs. with unemployment rate at 8.2%, we cannot afford our government to restrict job growth. attempting to we draw would create a substantial negative and impact chilling impact on
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the committee as a whole setting up precedent with section 404 permits can be revoked or changed at will. if permits become subject to arbitrary treatment, the result will be reduced capital investment, fewer jobs and more expensive intrastructure. global competitive reports the u.s. that held the long top position has continued its three-year decline and now holds fifth place. two of the factors cited were a reduction of transparent government policy making and the increase in burdensome regulation. when a government agency takes unprecedented action to attempt to revoke a legal permit issued by another agency, this action sends a message to the entire business community that it can't count on the government permit. businesses of all size are not
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asking for no regulation. they are asking for transparent and enduring regulation. they require a process that makes sense. a process that has clear time frames and a process for once the decision is made, it's honored and investments can go forward and hire people. capital will go elsewhere. st u.s. system still has checks and balances and this case the system worked. judge amy jackson issued a striking rebuke to the epa's over reach. she called it illogical, impact cal and noted it's unreasonable to sow a lack of certainty into a system that was expressly intended to provide finality. at the son set of its case the epa sought to silence its critics by objecting to the very filing of our brief.
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now the court has ruled against epa but epa continues and it's troubling to waste the taxpayers dollars to defend an indefense possible that's bad for the economy and inconsistent with the principles of law. fwheed know the rules of the load and the regulators have an obligation to provide a clear and transparent process to follow. congress and the judicial system must make sure the epa exercises only the authority it has and not the authority it wishes it has. thank you. >> thank you for your testimony. >> good morning. my name is ross eisenberg.
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i want to discuss what the retroactive veto did. manufacturers really need predictability from the regulatory process. they must understand the rules of the road so they can be responsible informed i vestment decisions. this lack of predictable is the problem that we're here to discuss today. it's the main reason that other organizations found it necessary to enter this litigation against epa. the spruce mine veto was a $250 million decision by epa that created a $220 billion problem. let's talk first about the 250 million. arch poll planned to commit $250 million and 250 well paying jobs in west virginia. obviously, this project matters. you heard that from the state
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senator. about that $220 billion problem. the court estimates that it issued roughly 60,000 discharged permitsharbert noted before me, $220 billion of investment and instruction, renewable energy, agriculture, and any other sectors. and exclusive framework. epa's decision would make it significantly more difficult and hiring decisions. the epa brought about
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uncertainty that brings in less investment, less jobs, and slower growth throughout the economy. the precedent is a serious threat and it's only a small part of a broader new set of policies being pursued by the epa that has manufacturers concerned. epa appears to be testing the outer boundaries and right now the guidance that expand under the clean water act and subjecting a wide range of traditionally in trust state waters to clean water act jurisdictions and permitting. moreover, by doing this dramatic policy by guidance rather than regulations or the regulatory process, epa has a built-in safeguards to protect the
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regulatory committee, job loss analysis and consideration of small impact to businesses. in addition, epa is also on the verge of taking another 404 veto action on the heels of its loss. this time epa is likely to issue a preemptive veto, a proposepp . if it moves forward, it would attract several billion dollars in manufacturing jobs. the epa is taking the position that it can say no to this project even before an application has been filed. i'd like to conclude by saying that it's very clear from this case and other cases that the epa is involved in that it's uncomfortable with its authority under the clean water act. it clearly wants more. but trying to get more, such as this one, epa is cause aggregate deal of uncertainty and and it's also a decision that will be subject to litigation and potentially overturned.
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epa should issue the most aggressive and provides scrutiny. the chemical, physical, and biological integrity of the nation's waters. if the epa wants or needs additional regulatory authority, well, isn't that why we have congress? epa should be here asking congress for this authority and should debate the merits of such decision. they need regulatory process. a proper system of checks and balances will ensure that the uncertainty is caused will not happen again. thank you for allowing me to testify here today. i look forward to any questions that you might have. >> thank you for your testimony, mr. eisenberg. we will now hear from miss gunnoe. >> i'm mere yeah gunnoe. i helped represent the communities where coal mining impacts are killing people and
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depopulating. thank you for allowing me to speak to you again today. i appreciate your obligations and responsibilities in protecting all u.s. citizens. my hope is that you listen and hear the pleas for our lives in southern appalaichan where the atrocious mountain top removal permits are permitted. the spruce one permit is in the hedgewater of the pigeon bruce creek. the people seem unimportant to most people in this room but to me and the people of blair, this stream is a part of our home. when mountain top removal is permitted near your home, you will soon be forced to leave what is the birth place of your family and your children's birth rights as heirs to your family land. you are forced by destruction to leave the american dream that our forefathers prepared and fought for. why is it acceptable to depopulate the communities and culture? poison our water and air and leave us to die in a post mining
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waste land for temporary jobs and energy? you should ask yourselves, are we knowingly and willingly flipping on our lights and lining our pockets at the expense of the lives, livelihood, and health of the people in appalaicha? the answer to this, in my opinion is, yes you are. the spruce number one permit is one of the first examples of the steps that the epa has taken to stop irresponsible mining practices which were ignored during the bush administration. people from all over appalacha have lop beed the epa for protections for the past 15 years. the coal industry was allowed to do as they please during the last eight years of the bush administration. then, in 2009, in step the obama administration trying to fix the problems that the bush administration created and then ignored.
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the coal industry has said that the epa and obama administration are trying to shut down coal. the coal industry is perpetuating a lie that there is a war on coal and coal mining wars are under attack. this is the same false crisis that is created by this industry each time that they don't get what they want. according to recent reports by ken at the charleston gazette, coal mining jobs have actually increased by 7.4% since 2009 when the obama administration took office. ted with the west virginia center budget and policy looked at mining jobs over the last two decades, annual west virginia coal mining jobs was higher in 2011 than any other time in the last 17 years. quoting the title of daniel's article on climate progress, the war on coal is a lie invented by the coal industry.
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it's a multimillion dollar misinformation campaign funded by big coal polluters to distract americans from the deadly effects of coal's pollution on public health. there is a war in appalacha. believe this. this war is on the people of appalacha. coal is not our king. god is. coal is only the dictator of some. expanding any mountain top removal, including the spruce number one permit means the depopulation of yet another mountain community and sickening of the people who live in this community. how will this affect our culture? we will die as a culture as we suffer with the inability to pass this mountain culture on to our children. not even our historic mountain cemeteries are left in tact and accessible. it is not as if this committee,
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congress, the coal industry, and the obama administration doesn't know what mountain top removal is doing to people. they not only know about it, but they are supporting it and allowing it by not ending it. after visiting the central appalachan communities, the recommendations for rio 20 included that mountain top removal should immediately be stopped with a moratorium on mountain top removal operations until a full investigation can be undertaken. mountain top removal cannot be silenced. the more people impacted, the more we'll continue to stand up to protect all that makes us free. we will not back down. we know we are doing the right thing and ending the evil that has come in to destroy our very existence. for many years we have lobbied the epa to enforce laws that are intended to protect our lives.
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this coal industry is anti-life and the firm enforcement of laws is the only chance that we have to survive as a culture. my family first settled this area during the forced removal of the cherokee known as the trail of tears. what the coal industry and our government is doing to our native communities in southern appalacha feels much like the second solid forest removal of our people. >> okay. thank you and thank all of you for your testimony here this morning. members of the committee may have additional questions for the record. excuse me. i would ask that you respond to these in writing. we will now begin questioning. members are limited to five minutes in their questions but we may have additional rounds. i now recognize myself for five minutes for the first set of questions. senator, in yte
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