share our views on the president's recent executive order 13607. this order is a generous step towards offering for-profit colleges and institutions that receive g.i. bill funding for student veterans an opportunity to improve their performance before laws are passed that will impose more severe regulatory remedies. though my time in service was many years ago as a vietnam era veteran in the u.s. air force, i still have very vivid memories of the military experience. i also remember quite well the tough time i had finding employment after going to a for-profit institution that provided no placement assistance or counseling though they advertised that they would. my experience serves as an example of what many veterans from iraq and afghanistan are going through now. ongoing analysis being done by the u.s. senate's health committee and other organizations shows students at for-profit colleges have lower

graduation rates, employment outcomes with higher loan percentage and defaults. they are raising the costs which are higher than for profit services and these are because students who need supportive services receive almost a quarter of their funding from federal aid. it appears to be those federal aid dollars that has led many of the admission officers to use aggressive strategies targeted students using the g.i. bill for funding. you see, g.i. bill benefits do not count as federal educational benefits under the department of education's 9010 rule, a longstanding requirement that no more than 90% of a for-profit's college's revenues can come from federal financial aid. in light of these findings, this is downright troubling to read news that for-profit colleges are being allowed to continue predatory and fraudulent practices with little or no accountability. i agree with the president's

executive order that when it comes to shopping for an education a veteran should not be treated as if they are buying a used car. they need to be given all of the information regarding tuition and fees up front before they enroll in a program of study. they should not be burdened with additional fees after completion of the program or fees not covered by other funding sources. i also agree with the president's executive order wherein veterans should be made well aware of the quality of the education offered and their potential for employment when they successfully complete the program. counselors should be readily available to provide financial and educational advice. this is as president obama attempts to establish a policy that will ensure that the nation's service members and spouses are not deceived by for-profit colleges. if for-profit colleges desire to achieve the goals proposed in the executive order, compliance should not be difficult.

though i suspect there will be some resistance since doing the right thing will undoubtedly affect the bottom line, less profit. if this order will serve to improve the likelihood of success for our veterans, it will obviously be well received by them. perhaps more of them will become gainfully employed or start their own small businesses. the executive order does not address the 9010 rule, and until that law is changed, g.i. benefits will be targeted for-profit colleges. that's a for sure. an enforcement rule needs to be strengthened and underpinning legislation appears to strengthen the principles referred to in the executive order. in conclusion, since our young men and women stepped up to serve this country following the devastating attack on our nation on 9/11, many returning as veterans who served with honor and many who received distinguished honors for valor

during their service for this country. they don't deserve to be taken advantage of. every effort should be made by every institution, governmental agency and commercial enterprise to be sure these veterans receive all the benefits that they are entitled to and deserve. we all upon congress to not let the institutions to take advantage of the citizens of any state, especially military veterans, members of the guard and reserve, disabled veterans, women veterans, black veterans, minority veterans nor homeless or of limited means. congress needs to implement laws to stop the predatory practices being demonstrated by for-profit colleges and institutions and to provide support to reinforce the principles of excellence as put forward in this executive order

13607 for the benefit of veterans, families and community. this concludes my statement and i respectfully request that my oral and written statements be submitted for the record. thank you. >> thank you, mr. wynn. recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. >> chairman stuttsman, thank you for the opportunity to share our thoughts on the president's recent executive order addressing consumer protection concerns for today's student veterans. in the interest of time, ski the committee to refer to my full prepared statement for our thoughts on the eo. recent senate investigations and gao reports that some schools make a concerted effort to recrew student veterans into their program with no intention of providing quality education. the vfw has seen numerous efforts from both congress and

the military to scale back educational benefit programs which is why we continue to fight to preserve the landmark educational ben filths of today's war fighters. since these reports surfaced, the vfw worked diligently to improve student schools who may have been victims of fraud, waste or abuse. in january, the vfw co-authored a letter asking the house, senate and administration to take action. we are proud to see that everyone listened to our collective voice. congressman and chairman, we applaud you and applaud the president for taking a bold first step in making sure that veterans receive the quality education we promised. the executive order is naturally constrained to the limits of current law and available resources which means the bills

must still be passed in a timely manner to ensure the student veterans make the best choices of how to use the earned benefits and limited in scope and progress difficult to assess which is why the vfw and many colleagues feel an advisory committee formed to monitor implementation and encourage the subcommittee to host a hearing at the 90-day mark to monitor progress. the vfw would like to explain how we envision impleation. we understand the schools may face additional hurdles for the principles of excellence. the vfw suggests the va adopt similar principles to those which many schools obligated to sign on to in the coming months and minimize administrative burden and collect quality information of which to inform veterans. second, the vfw support it is idea of data comparison tools of e benefits and stress a simple link is insufficient.

we believe that the va identify at least five but not more than ten relevant da the points with which veterans compare programs and engage with va on which are most beneficial over 90 days. third, the vfw must clarify that the anonymous complaint protects students information and the processes must be in place to verify the complaints from actual enrolled veterans and that the veteran exercises proper chains of authority before va intervention. we must also clarify that the new reporting mechanism is designed as a tool to collect relevant information. state approving agencies must still serve as the primary enforcers resolving complaints at the local level. finally, the vfw calls for additional hearing on resourcing for the vsaas. the vfw believes value resources

are being diverted to cover down on unrelated tasks, preventing from conducting quality program evaluations. we must solve this confusion in the short term to remain it's effective. the post 9/11 g.i. bill stands to be a transformative benefit. we must protect the benefit at all costs. unfortunately, the vfw and our partners have felt hamstrung by an overwhelming lack of quality information on student veterans to confirm reports of fraud, waste or abuse or demonstrate student veteran success. executive order number 13607 and the bills before congress help to gather this kind of data ensuring future viability of the program and fostering veteran success in the classroom. we hope to motivate congress to quickly move on legislation to protect our nation's investment offering the student veterans the quality education we promised. chairman and ranking member, this concludes my statement an i'm happy to answer any questions you may have. >> thank you.

mr. tom tarantino. you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you for inviting me to testify on the president's executive order accomplishing principles of excellence for education. we welcome the executive order to empower veterans make choices that meet their needs. we believe with proper implementation, it will provide yvette rans and families with clarity about their divisional choices. we believe that this order compliments several more robust legislative initiatives under consideration in the house and the senate. by signing this executive order, the president has initiated a process that if addressed by legislation alone the various agencies would have had to wait months to begin working on. we firmly believe that sound implementation of this executive ord we are passage of bills offered by this commit teen and

in the senate provide timely clarity of student veterans about educational choices. however, to achieve success we must address two questions. who are the outcomes consumers need to make sound choices? how are benefits and or federal aid, how will they pay for education that veterans and service members need? for most students choosing a school is simply not a data-driven process. this is largely due to the lack of consumer information available to students. while schools report hundreds of data points to college navigator it's not a tool to empower consumers and cursory review exposes broad inconsistents in the information to the department of education. when using college navigator for like programs the data often doesn't match up. unfortunately, there are some schools that use this confusion to hide poor performance. although i don't believe the executive order is going to necessarily clean up bad reporting it certainly will expose school that is are reporting bad numbers and give

consumers a school might not entirely be on the level. even if this executive order coupled with legislation fixes errors and inconsistencies with data we must tie that da to a tool that student veterans can use to determine what benefits or aid they're eligible more and use it to help pay for their division. we have produced a comprehensive va bill at newgibill.org. nothing exists from the va or department of education. choosing a college is important but these ultimately must be coupled with the ability to determine how to use their benefits to help achieve their goals. iava is also concerned with trademarking the phrase g.i. bill. searching on google reveals pages of websites to market for-profit schools to prospe prospective students without useful information about their ben filths. veterans who submit the information to the websites are often subject to aggressive

recruiting and harassment. i 'm concerned of no instruction in the executive order of website that is provide students with critical information and assistance with benefits that the government is unwilling or unable to provide. almost a million veterans used the website to calculate the ben filths, gather changes of the bill and receive help in understanding the complex program. when implementing the order there must be clearly defined exceptions for those providing a service and not looking to turn a profit. iava is also concerned about housing a consumer information tool, whether it's a link or an actual real tool at the e benefits portal. currently access is tied to enrolement in deers. this is a serious access problem since a significant number of veterans are no longer serving. for these veterans access is too complicated to make the service useful. you can develop the best consumer education tool in the world but it is useless if the

customers can't access it. to remedy this, iava recommends in addition to e ben filths consumer consumer tools at va.gov. we applaud the president's directive for consumer complaints but we are concerned about how the consumer complaint intake is handled. to be effective it will be at the va. the va is the face of veteran services within the government. it must be through g.i. bill and nowhere else does it make sense from a practical or business perspective. this executive order will not solve all the problems faced by student veterans. however, it is a good start and we have to work to continue to pass legislation that will make the provisions of this executive order more robust and more importantly permanent. but we must pass legislation like h.r. 4055 and 4390 to

restore free market control to the for-profit system and prevent veterans of being harassed. the post- 9/11 g.i. bill is the most significant veterans benefits since world war ii. as veterans, we all have a shared responsibility to ensure that every student veteran is empowered the use the benefits wisely and build a first-class future. thank you for your time and attention. i look forward to answering your questions. >> thank you. mr. michael dakduk, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting student vet rans of america to speak on the president's executive order and impact on students and institutions. i'm michael dakduk. i served in afghanistan and iraq as a marine. i used tuition assistance in the service and participated in distance learning courses on a navy ship heading to the middle east for a second deployment. as a first-generation college

student, i used the g.i. bill and post- 9/11 g.i. bill to earn my degree. student veterans of america currently has over 450 chapters at colleges and urines across the nation assisting veterans in education experiences on a daily basis. this direct contact gives sva unique perspective on the needs and obstacles faced by the veterans returning to the communities to enroll in institutions of higher learning and reintegrate in to the civilian work force. as you are likely aware, we recently conducted an annual review of the chapters both for-profit and not profit and found 26 for-profit schools suspected of creating fake sva chapters to legitimize their status as veteran friendly schools or recruit future student veterans. we revoked their chapter. that provides the frame work for the testimony this morning or

this afternoon, excuse me. the issues addressed in the executive order carry great significance for our nation's veterans, service members and their families. it reflects that such attention is being paid to addressing and resolving the challenges faced by veterans of bad actors in the system. regarding the specific provisions of the president's executive order, student veterans of america strongly supports any action that protects student veterans, families and benefits. any school that attempts to gain from the generous post- 9/11 g.i. bill and other military and veteran benefits without providing outcomes to the student veterans must be vigorously prosecutes. sva provides full disclosure of debt loads before enrollment. we know from the experience of this population that there's simply too much bad or misleading information out there about schools claiming to be veteran friendly. requiring schools to disclose

accurate information before student veteran enrolls levels the playing field and enables student veterans to make well informed decisions. sva support it is requirement of every student veteran of an academic adviser and plan. this is commonplace in most representable schools and those institution that is do not currently offer this must implement it immediately to ensure the veterans working toward realistic, academic or career goals. sva supports outcome measures and dwanlg wags rates. without data and statistics it is impossible to know the true impact. this information is also critical to effective congressional oversight and we remain concerned that the impact is lost without efforts. sva supports a system of complaints at schools. we have consistently asked for a formal, well-publicized process for student veterans to raise

questions with their institutions to the appropriate federal authorities. given the amount of federal dollars made available, it is essential to create a centralized complaint center to allow a student veteran to raise legitimate concerns about bad actors and post-secondary education space. sva supports policies of access to military bases by educational institutions, having consistency across all bases help ensure good schools have access and predatory ones are kept out. finally, while it is not specifically addressed in this executive order or a subcommittee hearing, sva would like to take this opportunity to call for an amendment to the so-called 9010 rule. sva supports the various bills pending to affect such a change. common sense dictate that is schools required for no more than 90% of the income from the federal income should not skirt this rule with the overand of veterans went filths. thank you, mr. chairman and

subcommittee members. i look forward to answering any of your questions. >> okay. thank you. they have just called votes. i think we are going to -- i'll take five minutes to ask questions and ask ranking member braley for his questions and then go vote and ranking members and then go vote and finish up questioning. >> the first question, i would like to ask, mr. galucci or maybe mr. tarantino. what value would that data add to the process if there any? >> thank you, mr. chairman for that question. some of the data points that i think specifically you are talking about data points on student veterans and information

on a student veteran on a school. michael and myself had an opportunity to sit in on a technical review panel to collect information on student veterans. basic items that the vhw believe that the student veterans want to know before they attend an academic institution. they have to do with unique services or advisers on campus. also the total veteran population and the number of beneficiaries on campus and service members, veterans and their dependents who are eligible for benefits. one of the ideas and a member of organizations have been kicking around, is there a better metric as it is reported through the ipad system. to a non-traditional student population, the graduation rate is irrelevant. i had a discussion with my colleague, ray, about this gratuation rate metric.

neither of us are considered successful graduates through the gi bill program even though both of us used the gi bill and received a degree. we are kicking around ideas, degrees conferred for a certain amount of time and expanding beyond first time and part-time and things like that. we feel that might be a conversation for a later date or to have with the va down the road as we invent this executive order. >> this question would be -- do you want to answer anything? >> i want to add to this. it is a great research tool. the information that is on college navigator is extensive, but the majority is not extensive. so a lot of this that we are talking about gathering data is less about gathering new data although we need to figure out

how to assess graduation. i'm a double college dropout. we need to figure out how to count that metric. this is more about data liberation and putting it in a tool that empowers consumers to make better decisions of where to spend their dollars. when you look at it in that light and frame the argument, this becomes a lot clearer. we need to yelp for higher education. if i can figure out what everyone in this room thinks about every sushi restaurant within five square blocks, i can figure out what students think and what consumers think about colleges within the city or state i live in. >> can you give us the ideas of what data would be helpful? can we add something that is -- we can make it a better tool useful for veterans. >> i think degree completion. how many students started a program versus how many ended each program.

how many students entered and left? how many students entered a mechanical degree and got it and how long it took them. that's kind of available at college navigator, but not broken down by program. it's less about finding the data and figuring out a way to prohibit it to consumers. that's the key. if you don't have anything to present that they can read and that's simple and quantifiable, then the data you are collecting is useless. >> do you think that finding college navigator information is difficult or easy enough to find it or is it the information that is on the website that is not useful? >> not only difficult, but highly inconsistent among their data sets. in my written testimony, i talked about a liberal arts college in oakland, california. that represented a pretty standard distribution of students, but when you looked at graduation rates, the only ones

were asian females. either there is a strong cultural bias or the data they reported was bad. you find this all over college navigator that even within the same data set, the data is inconsiste inconsistent. as a consumer, if you pick out the core data how much am i going to have to go into debt and how long to do it and how many people finish the degree, then you can pull that out of college navigator and make that for consumers and that would provide a lot of clarity as to which schools are meeting mission and which are not. >> thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to get all of you on the record. each one of these veterans service organizations that you represent were sig tories to this education bill of rights proposals that i referenced earlier, is that correct? each one stands by this

endorsement in a requirement to protect veterans and active duty and garden reserve in higher education. i think sometimes we talk about educational policy, it is divorced from the real world. look at myself. i started at iowa state university with a major in aerospace emergencying and switched to civil emergencying and switched to journalism and graduated with a degree in political science. you can argue about what you enter with, your degree target and people argue that for other reasons. the point is that i was able to take that degree and go on and do something and find employment. that's the definition of a successful college education. i am less concerned about what we enter in and exit with and

are we getting students the value they need for the education dollars to give them the ability to have a college degree and an opportunity to earn income and take care of themselves and their families. to me that's the focus of what we should be talking about. you were talking about what type of data would be necessary. we talked about degrees conferred, but i'm also entered in knowing what was obtained and the correlation between the two, whether that resulted in a benefit in the workforce or whether you have somebody with a liberal arts degree who is counting cars on a highway. to me that has impact on how we get the most bang for our buck for these dollars. one of the things you mentioned is proper implementations. you mentioned two questions. what are the outcomes needed to

make sound choices? do you have recommendations on what you think or do any members of the panel on what your members feel should be part of those outcomes? >> there is a lot of them in legislation. you are reporting out comes in specifically the web bill in the senate as well as the murray bill. there is a list of metrics that someone would need to use. a lot of this is available, but not reported in a digestible manner. if you go to college navigator, i suggest everyone try this. pick four like schools. four liberal arts schools or religious schools or whatever. do the comparison feature and look at them side by side. you will find that all of the 270 data points get severely reduced because not everyone is reporting the same thing. some schools are reporting data that is a little bit suspect and

doesn't matchup. when you do the comparison, you are looking at a trunkated version that doesn't give me any use of looking where to spend my dollars. as a veteran, i am going in for a tract. i am not an 18-year-old getting shot at in iraq. i am going there with a mission and need to know what is going to help me achieve the goal that i identified for my gi bill dollars. >> you testified about this in your opening remarks. there is a new reality out there for young men and women who are entering the armed forces and that is they are pursuing higher education while they are serving their country. you did that yourself. if we don't have a system in place that allows that transparency, allows that consistency of transparency, we are depriving you of the opportunity to get a head start on t