control of the election and governing process and redistricting process is storming the barricades. >> in the majority take all system and our majority take all system, that's part of the problem. reminded me of when lanny -- grown she teaches at harvard. the hiroki kuroda annie of the majority about different ways to do democracy and different ways of voting and weighted voting and things like that. is any of this relative? is it possible to get headway on different ways of representing the plurality if not the

majority. there a lot of reforms out there that -- i will give my own bias. a lot of reforms don't make any sense. i will give you a couple of examples. i talked with the people and the americans-elect and they asked me to support them. they have come up with this brilliant idea that would solve the problem. we will have a presidential candidate at one party and a vice presidential candidate with the other party. since vice presidents have no more influence in this, it doesn't make any difference at all. there is another that got and a friend of mine is pushing this. it sounds good at first. instant run off voting. here's what's wrong with that. if any of you -- i don't know new york well, but if you are familiar with the state that has run off primaries as they did,

you would find that in a great many of the cases, whoever finished second in the first round wins the run off. when you have an actual run off, not just dropping down the list, whoever gets your vote, we have an actual run off between two people so that the voters can can look at them and size them up and listen to them head to head instead of dwight it up among the other candidates. often it's the who won the first round and loses the second. i think it has to be much more fundamental and opening it up to democracy. let every candidate who qualifies whether filing for the petitions and whatever the state requires, beyond the ballot and let the voters choose among all of them. >> uh-huh.

>> i wanted to ask you if you could comment on the relationship between the extent of social crisis in our country and the economic crisis that we see in so many areas and i work as a medical doctor in health care and education and housing and transportation and energy. everything. the country is really in crisis in all these areas and people live this every day. it seems to me that there is a strong relationship between that and what you are talking about. partisanship and people can't talk about the issues of what's really going on. i wanted to ask you if you could comment on this and how we express that relationship to the american people and to people in a way that is not just sort of playing partisan games that democrats do all the time. talk about it in a way that has to do with the fundamental need.

>> actually i can't give an answer that is as good as your question. that was a very good question. i will say that one of the things that happens is when you have the kinds of crisis that you have, whether it's the banking or the health care system or whatever it is you have, you have so many problems. in a way it works against fundamental reform. people start becoming so focused on policy out come that they want. trying to get them to focus on systemic opportunities as much more difficult. thi don't realize so people who are concerned say if we elect the person who thinks the way i think, we will be better off. they are just as you saw and then they are part of the same system and nothing gets changed. also when you have problems as

deep, they are not just broad, but deep as the ones you talk about. and on solving the problem to sit down together. that's not the prisz that makes it harder to do that. if you are starting out, one of the things you talk about is obama. there were conservatives after obama's election and they thought obama was a kenyan socialist. liberals were mad that he wasn't. it was all people laid out these extreme positions and how do you get and deal with the problem at hand?

you put your finger on it. >> i think what you are describing is how you create environments where problem solving is the priority and is possible? this comes up a lot in various kinds of situations. i am sure you dealt with this, but there is a lot of creative innovative new ways of looking at issues whether in science or medicine or youth development, eldication, economic development. the vested interests have to protect them to go to the point you made earlier about incentives. the incentive for innovation and

bringing new ideas and new approaches to there on social problems is very, very minimal. that's the point of pressure. we have to tackle the problem and create a new set of incentives so that innovation and development and new approaches to these issues can be brought in and experimented with and try and anymored and tested. and discussed and all of that. we just don't have that kind of system. >> that's what is great about you bringing together law enforcement and inner city youth. bringing people together to talk, that is such a great thing about what we are talking about before. whether your group is on the left or the right, you resist the change. you have your office and title and you want to hold on to that.

real progress can't happen. >> i wanted to thank you for inviting me to this event. it's very special. the president really is not in charge. it's the congress. the media makes so much of the presidential election that it really takes the focus away from that congress is really running the country. is there any way that they can bring it back to the front. >> don't get me started on the media. with the exception of c-span which is great. >> i had the opportunity to do

different thigs and if she were sitting here, the problem is a failure in education. it's a failure in not only teaching critical thinking which is not done very well anymore, but a failure in teaching civics and teaching about the system of government. people don't understand that. they don't know a lot more and vote for president if they understood the system and how it is supposed to work. that's long-term. i don't know how you turn around an education system that doesn't work. a big media where being nasty gees rewards. i am sure jackie has done the same thing and have been on many, many radio and shows. if you are invited to be on, they do a preinterview to make sure you will be confrontational

before they let you on the air. we are talking about a lot of basic reforms that need to be made. it's not just -- i wanted to change the election system and the primary system and redistricting, but these problems are a lot deeper. we need some reawakening in america of what a true democracy requires. >> we actually have to stop, i'm sorry to say. before we do, i want to put in a plug here. both jackie and nicky have books that are coming out this summer. you don't have to wait. you can preorder them tonight at your favorite online book seller. i want to give you the titles and make sure you go home and preorder the books. jackie's book is independence rising, outside a movement third parties and struggle for a party from there.

mickey's book is the parties versus the people. how do turn republicans and democrats into americans. both hit bookshelves in august, but i know you want to have them in your hands or in your kindle. preorder them tonight. i want to thank you for coming. i want to share with you my biggest take away. i can't thank you both enough for spending this time with us. the most important thing about tonight's event is all of you and everyone watching on c-span. what i hear you both saying is that it's up to us to continue to build a movement of very ordinary american who is can restructure the process and create a new culture and create a new space for innovation and make new demands and i feel very energized by the dialogue tonight and can't thank you both enough for being here. see everyone else at the next politics for the people. thank you so much.

>> with congress on break this week, we are featuring some of american history tv's weekend programs in prime time on c-span 3. tonight join us as we take a look at women's history starting at 8:00 p.m. eastern. congresswoman pat schroeder of colorado reflects on women in politics. at 9:00, remembering first lady pat nixon who travelled to over

75 countries during her time in the as an ambassador of good will. helen explores harvard's relationship with women 375 years ago. american history tv in prime time all week on c-span 3. and on c-span 2, watch some of book tv's weekend programs in prime time. tonight a look at american journalism starting at 8:00 p.m. eastern. christopher daley covering america captures the culture of journalism and major news events. at 9:0055, timothy gay tells the story through the eyes of five reporters and at 11:10, jeff draws on post memos and correspondents and photographs and private interviews and book television and prime time all week on c-span 2.

this is c-span 3 with politics and public affairs programming throughout the week and every weekend. 48 hours of people and events telling the american story on american history tv. get our schedules and see past programs at our websites. you can join in the conversation on social media sites. the senate judiciary committee held a hearing looking at racial profiling in the u.s. specifically state immigration laws in alabama and arizona, law enforcement against african-americans and efforts that target american muslims. the hearing also examined proposed solutions and witnesses include senator ben cardin of maryland who introduced legislation called the end racial profiling act. other witnesses include the police chief of east paloalitio, california. the executive director of the american civil liberties union and the president for the center of equal opportunity.

dick durbin of illinois chairs the hearing. >> racial profiling is not new. at the dawn of our republic, roving bans of white men known as slave patrols had freed men and slaves to searches, detentions and brutal violence. during the great depression, many citizens were forcibly deported to mexico under the so-called mex row repatriation. tens of thousands of innocent japanese-americans were routed up and held confined in internment camps. 12 years ago, 12 years ago in march 2000, this subcommittee held the senate's first ever hearing on racial profiling. it was convened by then senator john ashcroft who would be appointed by president george w. bush. in february of 2001 in his first joint address, president bush said that racial profiling is

"kwong and we will end it in america." we take the title from the promise he made 11 years ago. in june 2001, senator rus fine gold held the senate's second and most recent hearing on racial profiling. i was there. there was bipartisan agreement about the need toent racial profiling and then came 9/11. in the national truma that followed, civil liberties came face-to-face with national security. arab americans and american muslims faced religious profiling to take one example, the special registration program targeted arab and muslim visitors and they are facing deportation. at the time i called for them to be terminated.

terrorism experts concluded that special registration waved homeland security in resources and in fact alienated patriotic americans and american muslims. 80,000 people registered and more than 13,000 were placed in deportation proceedings. even today many innocent arabs and muslims faced deportation. how many terrorists were identified by the special registration program? none. next wednesday the stream court will hear a challenge to the controversial immigration law. the law is one example of a federal, state, and local measure that you should the guys of combatting illegal immigration have subjected hispanic americans to an increase in racial profiling. arizona's law requires police officers to check the status of any individual if they have

"reasonable suspicion " that the person is an undocumented immigrant. what is the basis for reasonable suspicion? arizona's guidance on the law told police officers to consider factors such as how someone is dressed and their ability to communicate in english. two former arizona attorneys general joined by 42 other state attorneys general followed the brief in the arizona case in which they said "apication of the law requires profiling." african-americans continue to face the racial profiling. the tragic killing of trayvon martin is in the hands of the criminal justice system, but i note according to an affidavit filed by investigators, the accused defendant profiled have a von martin and assumed martin was a criminal. the senseless death of this innocent young man has been a

wake up call to america. and so 11 years after the last senate hearing on racial profiling, we return to the basic question. what can we do to end racial profiling in america? we can start by reforming the justice department's racial profiling guidance issued in 2003 by attorney general john ashcroft. the guidance prohibits the use by federal law enforcement in traditional activities. that's a step forward. however this band does not ally to profiling based on religion and national origin. it does not apply to fashl security and border security investigations. in essence, these exceptions are licensed to profile american muslims and hispanic americans. as the nonpartisan research service concluded, the guidance of numerous exceptions may invite broad cirque um vengz.

today the congressman and i are sending a letter signed by senators and 53 members of the house asking senator holder to close the loopholes in the racial profiling guidance. congress should also pass the end should also pass the end racial profiling act that senator cardin of maryland, who has taken up this cause, from our colleague senator feingold, and he's here today to testify. let's be clear, and i want to say this and stress it, the overwhelming majority of law enforcement officers perform their jobs admirably, honestly, and courageously. they put their lives on the line to protect us every single day. but the inappropriate actions of a few who engage in racial profiling create mistrust and suspicion that hurt all police officers. we'll hear testimony to what has been done in a positive way to

deal with this issue, by superintendent of police. that's why so many law enforcement leaders strongly oppose racial profiling. racial profiling undermines the rule of law and strikes at the core offer nation's commitment to equal protection for all. you'll hear from the experts on our panel today, the evidence clearly demonstrates that racial profiling simply does not work. i hope today's hearing could be a step towards ending racial profiling in america at long last. senator graham is running a little late. senator leahy is out of the senate this morning, but was kind enough to allow me to convene this hearing and i'm sure will add a statement to the record. i'm going to open the floor to senator graham when he does arrive, but for the time being, because we have many colleagues here who have busy schedules of their own, i want to turn to the first panel of witnesses. at the outset, i do want to note that i invited the department of justice to participate in today's hearing, but they

declined. we are honored to be joined today by our colleagues from the senate and the house. in keeping with the practice of this committee, first with we will hear from members of the senate, then members of the house, a practice which i loathed in the house, but now that we're running the show, i'm afraid you're just going to have to live with it, my house colleagues. each witness will have three minutes for an opening statement. your complete written statement will be included in the record. first witness is senator cordin. a senate member of this committee. this is senator cardin's second appearance before this hearing. he testified last year on the civil rights of american muslims. senator cardin, we're pleased that you could join us today and please proceed. >> well, senator durbin, first, let me thank you for your leadership on this subcommittee. in fact, we have this subcommittee as a testament to your leadership in making clear that civil and human rights are going to be a priority of the united states senate. soy thank you for your leadership and thank you very much for calling this hearing.

it's a pleasure to be here with all my colleagues, but i particularly wanted to acknowledge senator conyers and his extraordinary life leadership on behalf of civil rights and these issues. congressman conyers was a real mentor to me when i was in the house and still is and we thank you very much for your leadership on this issue. senator durbin, you pointed out that the nation was shocked. if i could ask unanimous consent to put my entire statement in the record, along with the list of the many organizations that are supporting the legislation that i filed, s-1570. as you pointed out, senator durbin, that the nation was shocked by the tragedy that took place in sanford, florida, with the tragic death of 17-year-old trayvon martin. and the question i think most people are asking, and we want justice in this case. and we're pursuing that. and we have the department of justice investigation and we all very much want to see that investigation carried out. not only to make sure that

justice is carried forward as far as those responsible for his death, but also as to how the investigation, itself, was handled. but i think the question that needs, to be answered is whether race played a role in trayvon martin being singled out by mr. zimmerman. and that, of course, would be racial profiling. an area that we all believe needs to be -- we need to get rid of that. as far as the legitimacy of using racial profiling in law enforcement. in october of last year, i filed the end racial profiling act, and as you pointed out, carrying on from senator feingold's efforts on behalf of this legislation, i thank you very much for your leadership as a co-sponsor. we have 12 members of the senate who have cosponsored this legislation, including the majority leader, senator harry reid, is a cosponsor. racial profiling is un-american. it's against the values of our nation. it's contrary to the 14th

amendment of the constitution, equal protection of the laws. it's counterproductive in keeping us safe. it's wasting the valuable resources that we have, and it has no place in modern law enforcement. we need a national law, and that's why i encourage the committee to report 1670 to the floor. it prohibits the use of racial profiling, that is using race, ethnicity, national origin, or religion in selecting which individual is to be subject to a spontaneous investigation, activity, such as a traffic stop, such as interviews, such as frisks, et cetera. it applies to all levels of government. it requires mandatory training, data collection by local and state law enforcement, and a way of maintaining adequate policies and procedures designated to end racial profiling. the states are mandated to do that or risk the loss of federal funds. the department of justice has

granted authority to make grants to state and local governments to advance the best practices. as i pointed out, it has the support of numerous groups and you'll be hearing from some of them today. let me just conclude, as my statement will give all the details of the legislation, by quoting our former colleague, senator kennedy, when he said civil rights is the great unfinished business of america. i think it's time we move forward in guaranteeing to every citizen of this country equal justice under the law and s-1670 will move us forward in that direction. thank you. >> thanks, senator cardin. i might also add that we're at capacity in this room and anyone unable to make it inside the room, we'll have an overflow room in derkson g-50, which is two rooms below us here. senator graham suggested that we proceed with the witnesses. next up is congressman john

conyers, the house sponsor of the end racial profiling act, ranking member of the house judiciary committee, serving in the house of representatives since 1965, john conyers is the second longest serving member, i think second to another member from michigan, if i'm not mistaken. congressman conyers testified at both of the previous senate hearings on racial profiling in 2000 and 2001. congressman conyers, we are honored to have you here as a witness and the floor is yours. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and to your colleague, who is another former house member, if i remember correctly, and senator ben cardin, as well, all of you are working in the backdrop of a huge discussion that has been going on for quite

some time. when i came to the congress and asked to go on the judiciary committee in the house and that was granted, emanuel seller was then the chairman, who did such landmark work in the civil rights act of 1964. and then we followed up with the voter rights act of 1965. and from that time on, a group of scholars, activist organizations, civil rights people, and americans of goodwill have all began examining what brings us here today, and accounts for the incredible long line that is

waiting to get into this and the holding room today. i come here proud of the fact that there is support growing in this area. only yesterday we had a memorial service for john payton, known by most of us here for the great work that he has done and contributed in civil rights, not just in the courts and in the law, but in what i think is the purpose of our hearing here today. namely to have honest discussions about the subject, so that we can move to a conclusion of this