unusual kinds of things that certainly supported and aid him in his achievements? >> well, i guess you would have to say either a charmed life or probably a blessed life. he was -- he was certainly raised to be a religious young man. and in so far as i know, continued to be very religious in his life. so i think were he to explain it himself, he would say that the hand of god was upon him, directing his fortunes and opening up really a way for him to prosper, to achieve, to become self-actualized, but also robert smalls as we all know was a man of great vision, of great

vision. and he understood that the direction that his life was moving in was charting a course for a whole people. and he had to have seen himself as a man of destiny, not in an egotistical way, because i don't have that image of him at all, but as a person who through sharing his experiences, sharing his achievements are working toward his own self-actualization and benefitting his family, he saw himself as kind of setting an example. you know, the kind of example that we say that we need so much more of today, he was that example. and he understood himself acting in that way. and i think he would probably also say that just kind of based on the life that he was leading, he continued to be blessed.

>> sir, do you have a question? >> good evening. my name is irving ford. and i commend you for -- name is irving ford, and i would like to commend you for your comments. i'd like to make a brief comment and pose this question. the common denominator in the theme is errors of inclusion. if you think about -- if you think about these -- if you think about these national, international incidents, the trayvon martin situation, the situation in the arab uprising like syria and libya, you have an american politician who talk about we're a nation of laws and want to lecture other countries about democracy. then you have a situation with

the latino community passing laws in the state of arizona, other southern states following arizona's leadership. and americans are oblivious, ignorant to know that, like, in south carolina we have badges to stifle the freedmen. my question directed to you, history is your passion. most americans, they might be fix excavated on nba finals. this year i tutored young african-american boys, basic literacy, mathematic skills. so regardless of gender or ethnicity, what you do is extremely important to the contribution of the united states of america. you're our community leaders.

we need you on this national platform of c-span to speak to our countrymen the value of history. and i would just end by saying this. ten years ago, i was working in north adams, massachusetts. i had an apartment in east greenbush, new york. commuting to work, i stopped at a grocery store. and at the checkout, there was this laminated one-pager on american history. 1822, slave revolt in charleston, south carolina. now most people in this audience who are native charlestons, you can get an a in south carolina history and be totally ignorant about the gentleman you are profiling tonight.

once again, appreciate all the work you do on behalf of us. but could each of you just speak generally, let me give you one example. because two weeks ago i was watching c-span. these words are not synonymous. your peers will talk about southern history. and if you get up and publicly project that you're an expert, you're an authority about a subject and all you can speak about is the successionists, that's because you are ignorant and not you personally, but your peers didn't do their work on alternative viewpoints. and as you go across south carolina, you see a dearth of information about the native americans and we as african-americans we are not invisible people. >> brother, can you form your question? reframe your question. >> just some feedback on the importance of history, that we

need to know our history. >> you want to take a stab? >> yes, yes, yes. thank you. very much for your observations. i think one way to link what we're talking about here tonight to the gentleman's question is this time period in american history that we have focused on through the life of robert smalls, the period of slavery, the civil war and reconstruction is a part of a process by which and through which the nation has become not perfect, but more perfect. over time. in other words, american democracy has many flaws. we're aware of that. but nevertheless, the onward march of history has shown america to become a better nation over time, a more inclusive nation over time. we're not where we need to be,

but thank goodness we're not where we have been. and guess what? one of the reasons we have been able to make the kind of progress that we have made has been through the liberation of african-americans from slavery to emancipation to freedom, 13th amendment, 14th amendment, 15th amendment, and so on and so forth, civil rights movement. ultimately we get the anti-war movement, the women's rights movement, and so on and so forth. we're all a part of not becoming perfect, but a more perfect nation. and that's what -- that's the direction that we need to continue to move in. >> i think you are correct in that sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees. we do get involved in our own topics and don't really understand why other people aren't as interested or can find the same answers that we do find. i do believe in the last 20 years there has been a wonderful movement with the park service

in both south carolina and in the nation to put forward -- i do teach south carolina history at the university of south carolina buford. and i think dr. edgars history of south carolina covers things well, the encyclopedia of south carolina. the information is there, we just need to get it out to the people to see. it is part of our jobs as historians to do that. >> i would add that we have to keep in mind that learning occurs in many of our environments, not just the formal structures that we think of in terms of the schools and, but it occurs in places like this institution where we're sitting here, the churches in the community. so i think if our young people aren't informed, we have to all assume responsibility for it. and it's something that we have to continue to do. it's not a lesson.

it's like a good story that you tell. it gets better every time you tell it. and so we have to continue to do that in many different places and assume responsibility for it. i'm going to come up to the front here and you can get in line. i just have a quick question. part of the challenge of history is helping young people understand, contextualizing who someone was who may have been around 150 years ago. i'm sure all of you have heard who said our current president and first lady remind some people of the kennedys in terms of charisma and things like that. are there any 20th century examples of people through in history that robert smalls might -- that there might be some sort of connection to help give maybe some younger people sense of the kind of role or the

stature or the accomplishments that maybe robert smalls had? does anything come to mind? i know that's a -- that's a trick one. but keep that in mind. maybe we'll get to it later. sir? >> my name is gus -- augustus holt. i am the historian for the 1955 cannon street all-star baseball team which is related to what you just alluded to as far as why stories are not known as well as others and why our history per se and the history of robert smalls and those

others like him who was pioneers who helped shape the fabric of america, who actually built america. now, there is a saying that goes like the pen is mightier than the sword. well, the african-american community as a whole did not control the pen. and the media basically enhances what they feel is relevant and what they feel empowers them. the media and not only the media, but the -- our educational system was not concerned about enlightening and

a empowering african-americans. so it was our job as parents and through our various institution, the church, our faith-based institution, that's how we educate ourselves to the history of our people, the african-american contribution to america. >> question? >> but let me say this question is, though, and my question is really to this panel, this esteemed panel i must add, because i know these gentlemen. they have, and i don't have a question per se, but these

gentlemen have contributed greatly to the education and the enlightenment to the contribution of african-american, especially in relating to the avery institute. and dr. dulaney, dr. powers, ms. nichols, they have contributed a lot. but it's up to us to challenge the educational institutions in the school system to really push the information out to our kids. and i appreciate you, because i really appreciate this panel and for what they're doing now. thank you very much. >> thank you. [ applause ] i have a question for you, ms. nichols.

we were this morning at the charleston museum, which i guess is the oldest museum in the country. you are at the largest museum in the world, i guess. people of african descent have been in this country since 1619. what happened? what was sort of the politics or what happened that is bringing the new museum of african-american history to life at this time? >> well, actually, it was earlier than that where african-american civil war veterans were calling for this kind of commemoration. we had the leadership of someone like john lewis, who really pushed for this national african-american museum, and its time has come. and african-americans need to be represented in these kinds of cultural institutions. >> you have a question, sir?

>> i might add on that that a major part of the civil rights movement of the 1960s was the establishment of african-american studies, which was to make it possible for african-americans to review their own history, write their own history, and develop an understanding of their experience. so ancient questions like who are we, identity could be resolved more matter of factually. my question relates to robert smalls' unfinished work. the unfinished work of robert smalls. what did smalls not complete? we see the fort royal experiment. the attempts to set up an economic environment in which the former slave would be able to support himself, raise a family, start businesses, normally develop as any people would. this is wrecked by the

democratic party and the aftermath, the beginning of the first reconstruction, and after the second reconstruction, which was black reconstruction as dubois defines it. what do you see us doing today with regard to this unfinished work of economic development, the economic empowerment of these people who for centuries have been exploited and a robbed by the system in america? >> well, part of robert smalls' work will be involved on the sea islands and the establishment of a black yeomanry on the sea island, the ownership of land, the working conditions on the sea islands. a lot of people don't realize this, but the sea islands were a boom area after the civil war. good industries, good jobs, good

wages, plus numerous pharmacy that were gained by the former slaves on to sea island. and what destroys them will be in many ways really greatly diminish this will be the depression in the 1920s where actually they'll go down to -- wages will drop to 20 cents a day. in the 1920s, the sea islands around port royal had a population of 40,000 people. by 1940, it's down to 20,000 because people have to leave the area to find new jobs and such. he set up a legacy in the sea islands which does last well into the 20th century, and then conditions, economic conditions will completely change the area. one of his greatest legacies, though will, be where i work on parris island. while he was a member of the south carolina legislature, he pushes for a naval station at port royal. when he becomes a u.s. congressman, he puts petitions before the u.s. congress for the

establishment of a naval station at port royal. and in the 1880s, the united states navy will establish on parris island the port royal naval station. this naval station is eventually moved to charleston, but it becomes now the home of the marine corps recruit depot where i work. and just to put a quick plug in for our museum, please come down and visit us, and also come and visit penn center out on the sea islands as well where you can follow more of the story of robert smalls. >> i would say that one of the things that robert smalls didn't complete was indeed, even though for a short period he did have this power base, this political power base, he wasn't able to maintain it. again, not through any fault of his own, but because of the forces of the democratic party and the ku klux klan and the democratic rifle clubs. and he essentially was trying to do what other american ethnic

groups had done in this country in terms of using politics, using political power to build an economic base. again, we see it in the 19th century and early 20th century over and over again among the irish, among the italians of how they use politics to help their groups to build economic power. and he was thwarted just as most african-americans in the late 19th and at the turn of the 20th century were thwarted in their efforts to use the political system to build an economic power base. >> i would -- i would just add this too that, you know, when smalls basically ends his political career, we find him continuing to fight. we find him in 1895 in the south carolina constitutional

convention, which had been called to reverse everything that had been done, or at least to -- i need to rephrase that to reverse the most essential thing that had been done in the 1868 constitutional convention, which was to enfranchise african-americans. convention w was to franchise african-americans. and he tried to stand up and prevent the disfranchisement of black south carolinians. that work remains unfinished because of what is going on in south carolina under the guise of voter i.d. and it's happening in other places too. so this is robert smalls' unfinished work that all of us have a responsibility to take up and to continue and to push forward and to work with all other progressive forces.

and understand what's going on here because the dismantling of the right to vote in the 1890s in south carolina and other places in the south was the precursor to the massive oppression of people across the board in every aspect of life. so we need to -- we need to take up this effort and to do what smalls did and hopefully we will be more successful than he was able to be although he gave every ounce of his energy in 1895. >> i think we have time for a few more questions. >> i think it speaks to the point that dr. dulaney made when he said when did the civil rights movement start for african-americans? it started at the very beginning. and robert smalls was part of that ongoing struggle to secure

important rights for african-americans and it reminds me of the saying that says people must forever be vigilant in terms of holding on to the positive changes that came out of that struggle. that's part of the work that continues to be done. >> sir? question? >> question. my name is robert david ross and i'm -- i'm a performing artist with the south carolina arts commission. now, my question is -- and comments i have two questions. is that -- since robert smalls was very concerned about education. he was passionate about that, now, did robert smalls started the public school system in america? or just in the state of south carolina?

and also, to add to that, since we lack on visual images of great african-americans especially our robert smalls we would like to suggest that we would like to have an image, a picture, a color picture of robert smalls in every public and private school in the state of south carolina because it would be a good motivating factor for our youth who have been struggling in their self esteem to be associated with an african and to see robert smalls' picture when they are coming into the school. it would generate a sense of pride to say this african was about education. i can be like him. i can motivate him. but we need those images in the schools. and we would like to hear the

response from the panel and for them to assist us in this effort because we need men and women of courage here in the state of south carolina. we need help. and i would like for you to respond and i thank you. >> thank you. [ applause ] >> robert smalls started the -- proposed the resolution to create the public school system in south carolina, not in the united states of america public schools of course go back to the 18th century common schools in boston, in new england. the south didn't have public schools. and again that was one of the continue contributions that dubois pointed out in the article that i cited earlier that in the south there was no public school system, no common schools, primarily because we

have slave holders who dominated the politics in the states -- in the southern states and basically they didn't want to spend their tax dollars who were not slave holders. they send their children to the north and overseas and dirt farming upcoming white people weren't of any interest to them. and they didn't want to educate the enslaved african-americans. so i teach african-american history is one of my stories is to tell about robert smalls and his proposing the resolution to create the public school system and match it in texas, an african-american from harrison county proposed the legislation in texas to create the public school system. so indeed, robert smalls, again, he is more intimately involved in creating the public school system down in buford county. >> and i want to add one point

to dr. dulaney's commentary and that is, there were no wide-spread public schools in south carolina. you do have a few instances where planters or other individuals set up schools for their families. and in some cases, a few cases, african-americans were allowed to attend. but again there weren't any widespread public schools. >> right. in fact, there are public schools in charleston before the war but they were called pauper schools because the feeling was if you had money, you would send your children to private schools. you would not send them to these marginalized public schools.

charleston has a number that is above the average and there is a legacy that carries over in charleston today. >> on your question about images there are at least three civil war images of robert smalls of which a very good portrait could be made from. buford was filled with photographers and he went to the studios to have his picture taken. >> sir? >> i name is donald perillot. i have a point of information i'd like to share with the panel and curriculum specialist and the like movement son is a history teacher in alabama. he's visited south carolina limited amount of time.

the last time we didn't get to go to fort sumpter. i worked is there since he was here the last time and michael and them allowed them to film me and my peers working on the restoration project. my son asked me for my daddy's medals of world war ii. and i was able to tell him that i was in the gent art fifth army in italy, france, north africa and these kinds of things. he says they are allowed as teacher -- this is to get the history out. this is where i'm going with this. he can use real life images because he himself -- he said i don't believe it was no slaves. i took him on the self guided tour so his students would be more interested if he could say my father and my grandfather did this in charleston and they can use these real life images and

teaching history as he -- as they see fit. i thought that was an excellent instrument that a teacher could use at that level to get children to appreciate and like history. i just wanted to share that with you. when i substituted i don't recall as i walked -- i had -- i subbed at different classes i don't think i saw a lot of that. but i thought that was an excellent way to get them into history and appreciate it more and they could -- teachers could be allowed to do that. >> thank you. any comments? i have two quick questions and then we're going to wrap it up. quick questions and quick answers. first, any quick comments about how did