one of my favorite drugs to talk about is in maybe half of fruitcakes, half of cows and a lot of turkeys. this is a drug, where most of the drugs are giving it to make the animal grow faster. but this particular drug is not withdrawn when they walk on to the killing floor. that means when that animal is killed and the meat is sold to saf-way, the drug is in there.

american history tv is at the annual organization meeting in milwaukee. mary beth norton is a history professor with cornell university. and a lot of your work focuses on pre-colonial and colonial women. you've written a lot about it. what interests you in this subject? >> well, for one thing, very few people think about women in the colonial period or, if they do, they think of them just as, i don't know, house workers, you know, work erks around the house.

they don't think of their potential public roles. one of the things i'm interested in in the 17th century is women who take prom nentd, public roles. and in the 18 lt century,i'm interested in -- i did a whole book on women's revolution. so i'm interested in the -- how women perceive they're relationship to the public realm. how men see women in the public realm in the run up to the ref lugs and during the revolution. >> what would be some of the early examples of women in the public realm prior to the rev lugsz? >> prior to the revolution, one of the most interesting examples is a woman named margaret brent who was essentially the chief financial officer ofts colony of maryland for 18 months in the 1640s. somebody that very few people know ab. but when the governor died suddenly, he named her the executor of his private estate. and he was the largest land holter in the colony.

or he had control of the land. and the colony was in dire financial straits and there were some soldiers there who needed to be paid. so they needed to pay off these soldiers. so the ledgeture dez ig nated her the official financial officer of the county so she would have access to be able to pay off the soldiers. high status people of either sex and that also explains ann hutchinson who is an important religious leader who divides the massachusetts bay colony with her ideas. but the reason people will

listened to her was she was one of the highest status women in the colony. her husband was one of the leaders of the colony. so people deferred to her. it wasn't just the attractiveness of her religious ideas. they listened to her and they liked what she had to say. >> what are some of the things that are commonly taught about women in the colonial period and you look at and say no, you're getting it all wrong. >> i think tsz the idea that some women are subordinate to all men. we have to rethink how we conceive of the roles of women in the colonial period because there are these high status women. for example, in my most recent book, i have a chapter on lady francis barkly, who is the wife of the governor of virginia at

the time of bacon's rebellion. after her husband died, she became one of the most important political leaders of the colony. she became the focal point and she successfully thwarted him in what he try today do for about 18 months. for the entire cup of his life, he actually died early of his disease. he was preplareplaced in a temporary position and he knew how to placate her and so she lost her -- she lost her power at that point. but the guy who replaced her husband was just so frustrating. he kept sending all of these letters. and nobody said this was not what she should be doing. >> you mentioned your most recent book, separated by their sex, women and public in private and the colonial atlantic world. i raet e read that this was the third in a series of books that you've written. what's the purpose and the point of the series?

>> yeah, well, the purpose and the point is the thing we've been talking about. the relationship of women in the public realm. it is the third that i wrote, but it's actually the middle of the trilogy. i started off with a book women in the revolution called liberty's daughters. and then i went back to the 17th century, the founding of the colonies and wrote a book call foupding mothers and fathers. so i had the beginning of the story and the end of the story, but i didn't have the middle of the story. and the middle of the story is what this last volume is. >> you have also written about the salem witch trials. >> welt, i could go on and on forever. i think that my understanding was realitily changed when i realized in the course of my research that the abslewly crucial factor was the

concurrent indian war which very few people know anything anbout. but if you know that there was a major indian war going on and salem village was filled with refugees and that a number of the afflicted people were among those refugees and that you could trace their buy og ra fews, as i did, and find out that they had framatic experience as young people. one of the things i argue is that we could say in modern terms that seem to be suffering from post-traumatic stress. and if you pay attention to it, there are indians all the way through the say lemt records. people say they see the specter of the devil in the shape of an ichbd yan. people talk about having nightmares of indians. and, actually, a little known

fact is that there was a major indian attack while the trials were going on. >> what year did the trials happen? >> 1692, 16793. it went on for about 15 months total. we talk about the witchcraft trials mostly through the vehicle of the special court that was established to try the witches, the accused witches. and that special court sat in june through september of 1692. but even when that special court was dissolved, there were still hundreds of people the jail. and they had to be tried or dealt with in some way. the trials actually continue in 19 e 1693 in regular courts. everybody was akwited by three people. and those people who were acquitted then -- or not acquitted, are pardoned later by the governor.

>> they were set up by the governor. he had a power to set up a special kourlt and he did. and he named a bunch of prominent men. none of them had legal training. the only person who was a trained lawyer in the whole sequence was the first prosecutor. >> with all of this going on, refugees from the frontiers and the indians and the attack, where does witchcraft come in as a practice? >> yeah, witchcraft is for people in the 17th century. this is a period before the scientific revolution. this is a period before anybody understands germs. this is a period before anyone understand animal diseases. so if a cow suddenly falls ill after it's really in great shape

one day and it dies the next day and no one has an explanation for it, it would be an attempt by the person who owned the cow to say what could va caused this? oh, last week rksz i had my fight with this neighbor when this cow got into her corn field and i think she bewitched my cow. this would be done with the deaths of children. >> was this unique to the colonies? or was this happening in u.k. at the same time? >> it happened in england at the same time. it happened on the continent of europe. it's a very common pre-scientific revolution kind of way of thinking. and i came to the conclusion that many of the small villages had someone that they thaulgt was a witch. that stories built e built up with mysterious happening after someone had a quarrel with this person or something like that.

one of the things we see lapping in 16912 is bits pieces being pulled together. you'll see people testify about things happening 20 years earlier. so you can see that suspicions in different areas built up. not just in se lem village. so once that person is formally accused, then everyone comes in and says yes, i've long known this man or woman was a wi67. >> so there were men that were accused? >> yes. and, in fact, it's a little known fact that five of the people hanged were men. there were 19 people hanged, 14 women and 5 men. >> let's go up to just before the revolutionary war. when you teach about that time period and into the revolution, what do you point out as the role of where i am leading up to the revolution?

>> yes, one of the most important roles comes in the immediate pre-revolutionary period when the revolutionary leaders are attempting to attack the british. not physically, but by consumer boycotts. and then u as now rksz women were the shoppers. so they had to persuade the women not to drink tea. it is a really crucial thing because tea -- i've talked about this in my new boox. tea is really important in socializing in the 18th century and i wantt's something that wo control. so when they decide to boycott tea, they have to persuade women to do that, other wise it won't work. so there are all kienlds nds ofs in the newspaper about ladies

come tothd aid of the cause of boycott tea. one lady, i read a very funny letter from her. she says all of my friends are boycotting tea and we're drinking coffee and it's runing my stom k a. so women trade recipe for local her ball tea. push 3ush . >> actually, as a part of it, making homespun cloth is another way women are bringing it to an end. there are groups of women holding spinning bees in public spaces. so they can purr suede women to spin and this is a way you get away from buying british goods. >> so for references to history, we have, for men, we have a lot of great memoirs and things like that.

what do you find your best sources for writen sources for writing about women? >> mostly correspondence. women did not, for the most part, keep die ree e ris in this period. keeping a diary requires a very high degree of literacy because it's kind of writing to yourselves. women didn't have access to paper, which was very skarsz and expenszive for the most part. and they didn't have leisure time. in the 19th century, you get a lot of women who leave diaries. but there the 18 thd century and earn certainly not in the 17th century, you don't have very many diaries. it is hard sometimes to find this material for the colonial period. >> it's interesting that you point out that they didn't have leisure time. so letter writing was essential. >> saf-womeone is not very far

way, they didn't write. so the most surviving correspondence is by people who are separated for long periods of time. and that was actually a woch ll thing that i didn't realize when i started it, women and men are sprated for a long period of time. so things that would have been in conversations get written down. it's very porpt these letters get saved. oftentimes, families miegt come across old letters and say oh, it's trash, i'll throw it out. so i benefitted greatly. >> and, in general, how did yoi find the tone of the correspondence? was it stiff and formal? >> some very stiff and formal.

some husbands and wives who address themselves in formal terms. but,mostly, very down to earth. a wife writing and saying what do i do about the back 40? do i plabt it in barly? do i plant it in oets. if she didn't hear from you, then she woulds make a decision herself as to what to do. some of the fun letters that i found were women saying i'm here. i know what eegsz going on. you're not around, so let me take over. >> sort of like husband or wife might say you're not here. >> and one of the really dramatic moments actually comes from something like that, which is in -- this period, smallpox was of course the great killer. and as the armies moved around

the country side, they often carried smallpox with them. smallpox inoculation carried with it the danger of delt. they haven't found out that you could be vaccinated request smallpox and survive: easily. so to get inknock waited, it required you to be infected with this deadly disease. women would have to mack the decision for themselves and their children and some of the moesz effecting letters that i read were from women saying i don't know what to do. i have to decide. do i deliberately put my children at death east door and risk about a 5% chance that they will chi from die from this disease dlib raltly vmt or do i leave them unprerkted and maybe a 0% chance that they'll do e

die if they take it in the natural way. and it's a terrible decision. they had to make it without their husbands there. >> outside of the family structure, when you read these correspondences, what's your sensz of how women feel about their stature in society? their rights. ? do you see some of the early inklings with menl? >> very little of it. one interesting to me was how much women denigrated themselves. and they would a poll jazz. she hardly went to school. she was very smart. she was tutored at home and she always had terrible punctuation, terrible capitalization and not very good spelling. so she would apologize a lot. and other women apologized everyone more vmt and they had

reason to because they didn't nope the rules or didn't spell very well. i wanted to know the origins of this thinking of women. i didn't see it in the 17th sechblg ri chlts but i saw it in the later 18th century. this notion that they had very little role in the public. so that's what i was trying to investigate in this book. >> abigail adams is a good example. a lot has been written about her correspondences with her children and her husband in recent years. why has she been such an pornt feg your? well, for one thing, she wroet reams of letters. partly because, for exactly what i've been talking about, abigail and john were separated for so long as. so we have the huge amount of correspondence. and then it was all save.

i mean, they were great pack rats. they just saved everything for hundreds of years. so that's one reason why we have so much. we don't have it fr thomas jefrerson. he burned his wife's letters. we don't have it for george washington because we va his public correspondence. death, m personal letters to her. and we don't have her letters. so one thing is, they saved everything and other people burned it. it's not that the other letters didn't once exist. it's that they're gone. >> as you continue to research and teach about this time period, and write about it, as well, what still interests you? what do you have to find still? what are you looking into that you haven't written about yet? >> i am still interested in examining more about this notion of public and private and how the ideas develop that there is this private realm that women belong to, and they shouldn't be involved in the public realm. the idea -- because women in the 18th century -- even abigail

adams, when the revolution begins and they write about public events, they write in their letters, this is beyond my sphere. i know i shouldn't be writing about it, but it's so interesting, i have to write about it. or men say women are doing something that's outside their sphere, outside their appropriate realm. and, again, that language didn't exist in the 17th century. so i got very interested in why it exists, how it comes to exist. and the history of that. and i'm still interested in pursuing that. >> do you have any early i think lings of what are the causes? >> yeah, it comes from engliand at the turn of the 18th century. and it is then incorporated into american belief systems by people who are very au currant with what's going on in england. the people prided themselves on

keeping up to date and some of the most important progenitors of this idea are addison and steel, famous essayists and their series of essays "the spectat spectator" which i discovered is the most advertised book in 18th century america after the bible, advertised for sale. and people just thought "the spectator" was the be all and end all and told everyone how they should behave. and it said it was absurd for women to think about thinking -- absurd for women to think about politics, absurd for women to think about public affairs. and if they did that, they would be neglecting their families, they would be creating sort of slovenly households. one of my favorite lines comes from addison. addison says, i never knew a political woman to retain her beauty for more than one year. so i say this to my students and

i think, what does this mean? on the day 366, after a woman who has been acting in politics, her beauty completely disappears? but he seriously argues that a woman who becomes engaged in party rage, as he calls it, will destroy her beauty. and so therefore, she has to stay out of the realm of politics. >> what do you think some of those early ideas about women and their opinions on politics have done to the view of women in politics today? >> i think we still see some of the results of it. we still don't have 50% representation of women by any means in congress. or in state legislatures or anything. there's still this notion that women should be in the home taking care of children, rather than in the public realm, rather than making public policy, that public policy is somehow what man is to do. how many women have we had run for vice president? only two. >> mary beth norton from cornell university here at the organization of american historians, the annual meeting. thanks for joining us here on

american history tv. >> sure. glad to be here. >> we had pulled into the refuelling that morning around 9:30. we had moored the ship to a pier. >> the former commanding officer of the "uss cole" surrounding the 2000 attack that left 17 dead and 37 injured. >> i was turned back to my desk doing routine paperwork when at 11:18 in the morning there was a thunderous explosion. you could feel all 505 feet and 8400 tons of destroyer quickly and violently thrust up and to the right. it's almost like we seemed to hang for a second in the air as the ship was doing this twisting and flexing. we came back down in the water, lights went out, ceiling tiles came and popped out. everything on my desk lifted a foot and slammed back down. i literally grabbed the under side of my desk until the ship stopped moving. >> more with former "cole" commander kirk liphold sunday at 8:00 on c-span's "q & a."

each week, american history tv's american artifacts takes viewers into archives, museums and historic sites around the country. the smithsonian national museum of african-american history and culture will open a new building on the national mall in 2015. american history tv traveleded with lonnie bunch, the museum's founding director to a storage site in a washington, d.c. suburb, where he showed us some of the artifacts that will be on display in the new facility. >> right now, we're in the storage units of the national museum of african-american history and culture. in essence, this is the heart of the museum because what's behind me and what we'll see today are many of the objects that are going to be the soul of this museum. so this is an opportunity to sort of preview some of the material that the public will see when the museum opens its doors. this story of the african-american experience is

both a story of resiliency and achievement, but it's also a story of struggle. and one of the hard parts of exploring this history is that often, the people who were at the worst tended to be other americans. so that makes it hard to interpret this because americans aren't used to being the bad guys. one of the things that's powerful is objects like this that convey the sort of strong anti-black sentiment. this is a ku klux klan banner from the 1920s. the four ks would be the knights of the ku klux klan. as you know, the clan began after the civil war, sort of goes underground and sort of bursts new as a result of the film the birth of a nation and the klan becomes not a southern phenomenon but a national phenomena in the 1930s. this kind of banner is the kind of thing that people would use

to celebrate their investment and their participation in the ku klux klan. so these are the kind of things that we have to make sure we tell the painful stories, as well. and then i think that one of the things that is really interesting to me is to recognize that so much of what shapes a community is work. and so we wanted to make sure that we found things that would give people an understanding of the way black america worked. and one of the most important stories often a story that's not clearly understood, is the story of the pullman porter. this is a wonderful hat and in some ways, we've come to a point where pullman porters were seen maybe in a stereotypical way as people who only served who actually worked on the railroad to make sort of you know, the travel of the elite white community comfortable. but the pullman porters played even a more important role. they were in some ways the

communicative heart of the african-american community. they began to bring to different regions of the country an understanding of what was going on in the south, what was going on in california, and they became one of the earliest black unions so they were very successful in the early 20th century in unionizing and sort of establishing a pattern that many african-american entities and businesses would follow in the future. so for us, the pullman porter is both a story of work, it's a story of the limits of what people were able to do because they were african-american, but it's also a story of how people transcended the limits of their job and created a way to help the entire community. and then in some ways, the whole notion of struggling against racism battling segregation is really at the heart of trying to understand this story. these two artifacts that we're

about to look at speak volumes about segregation. on the one hand, we have what was something that was ubiquitous throughout the 20th century which were colored drinking fountains, things that sort of insured that the separation of the races were enforced. and as we know, that segregation was the law of the land throughout part of the 19th century and all the 20th century and so colored theaters, colored hotels, colored drinking fountains were part of the way america lived. and what's so fascinating is they're hard to find now. but what really moves me in addition to things like the colored drinking fountain is really looking at the depths one went to segregate america and one of the things that is so powerful is this lallie kemp which was a charity hospital in independence, louisiana.