on june 22nd to this committee in the seat similar to the one you are sitting in that you said absolutely that you would answer them in writing and you did not answer them and today you are refusing to answer them in writing and we'll ask you the question and get your answer. >> i'm re -- >> the only clarification i'd like to make is that i believe that the letter that the letter of the secretary of treasury sent you on november 1, 2011, did not refuse to answer the questions because of the litigation. in fact, there are two and a half pages in response to the pages in the latter, but that said, i'll do my best to answer them. >> we will submit the questions and answers because we have them for the ridiculous and everyone can say that these are subject to litigation, but we're not going to waste our time on that. >> mr. chairman, one clarification. i have the november 1 letter and

i will peruse it, just for clarification, you said it was under litigation, it seems there's a lot more to this letter than that. he seems to be answering quite a few things in detail, and i just want clarification on that, that's all. >> we have answers both in this letter and also answered directly from secretary geithner and in that letter -- and in the letter he specifically states and he cited both and you cited it previously an answer of litigation and this does not answer the question, but we'll go for it. mr. bloom, in the discourse between treasury and pbgc, what role did the auto task force

play in the decision making to terminate the pension plan of the workers? >> i couldn't really expand on what mr. feldman said. i think that would be my answer. so you have no separate answer of yourself? >> no. mr. feldman indicated that it was an advisory position and what we would like to know is what was with the position of the auto task force with respect to the delphied salaried workers and their pensions? >> i think it was what mr. feldman said it was. >> are you going do that for every answer? >> you don't have an independent answer? >> on that question, congressman, i do not have a different answer. if i agree with what's been said i thought it was expeditious. >> in june, did you have your own answer? there are many that believe that there were significant numbers

of conflicts of interests between the treasury, the pbgc and the auto task force and new gm. secretary geithner serving on both the board of pbgc, being the secretary of the treasury and our task force being part of the treasury and of course, new gm receiving from the treasury its capital infusion. did you ever have a discussion at the auto task force the actual or potential conflicts within treasury and the auto task force with respect to this bankruptcy proceeding and the delphied salary pensions and what was the subject of those discussions? >> i do not recall a conversation in treasury about whether or not the issues you raised would pose a conflict of interest. i do not recall such a discussion. >> do you believe now they do? >> i don't see where a conflict of interest would have been. no, sir.

>> in the termination of the delphi salaried pension plans, a significant issue of dispute are the foreign assets held by delphi and the liens that pbgc either asserted or might have asserted against those liens. ultimately, pbgc released these liens as part of a settlement in exchange for payments by new gm that did not include the delphied salaried pension plans and the liens did. do you recall any discussions of the auto task force concerning delphi's foreign aspects with the liens and pbgc? i do not recall any such discussions. would you assert today that those discussions did not occur?

is it possible they occurred? >> anything is possible. i do not recall any such -- >> did you ever have a conversation about the delphi a foreign asset and the liens of pbgc? >> i have no recollection of having any conversation of that nature. we're getting pretty far here. so far we get you will give us the answer of the gentleman who answered previously or you don't recall. helpful. >> i can only testify to the best of my ability, congressman. >> clearly. >> there's a significant amount of concern that has been raised about political considerations with respect to the pbgc negotiations and the pension

plans, salaried retirees, pensions and even the issue of the foreign asset liens of pbgc. did you ever have any conversation or any discussions concerning the political effects of the outcomes of your recommendations? >> could you clarify what you mean by the political impacts of the outcomes? >> i think it's fairly clear. did you have any discussions concerning the political aspects or consequences of your decision making? >> no. not that i recall. the united autoworkers have stated that the delphied salaried retirees should be treated with fairness and equity. additionally the uaw stated in the letter dated november 15, 2010 that it supports, providing the same top-ups to the salaried workers as a matter of fairness and equity that was -- that had

been provided by other delphi workers. you answered miss maloney and indicated that you understand the pain that people have. do you agree with uaw? >> i'm not familiar with the full context to the uaw's comment, but i can answer your question. i can't say whether i agree with them or not because i haven't read that document. i think a lot of people have suffered as a result of the gm bankruptcy and i -- if congress would choose to -- to help one of those constituents who is hurt that would be up to congress to do. i think it would open a can of worms, but it's not my -- but i don't have a judgement as to whether congress ought or ought not to do it. mr. cummings? >> i just -- i'm -- i guess i have, what? about ten minutes? i'm going to read this letter, and into the record. november 1, 2011, department of

the treasury. it suggests honorable michael turner, this is from the assistant secretary of the department of the treasury and this is one of the letters that we were just talking about in response to the questions that were raised some time earlier by congressman turner. it says i'm writing in response to your recent letter to secretary geithner in which you raised certain questions regarding the corporation decisions related to the certain former employees and retirees of the delphi corporations. you submitted these questions previously to mr. ron bloom who has since left his position with the administration. please allow me to respond on behalf of the secretary. we recognize that the bankruptcy of the delphi has been extremely difficult and challenging for

all its employee, and we are acutely aware of the significant hardships that the entire united states automobile industry has faced in recent years. the issues you raise in your letter pertain to certain agreements entered into by general motors corporation in 1999 when the old gm spun off delphi into a separate company as well as decisions made in connections made with the 2005 bankruptcy filing. around the time of delphi's 1999 spin-off of old gm and it entered on top of agreements and commitments to pay supplemental pension benefits to participants in the delphi pension plan represented by three unions and the united autoworkers and the international union of electrical workers and the steelworkers. those agreements provided that in the event that benefits of the hourly plan were frozen or the plan was terminated, old gm

would cover any shortfall below the level of benefits promised. over the next several years, delphi suffered a large loss and filed for bankruptcy in october 2005 and in 2007, delphi and the unions who were party to the top-up agreements agreed to extend these commit ments although there were negotiations with ogm, it did not enter top-up agreements with any other union nor did it enter into an agreement for participants in the delphi salary pension plan. at the time of the 1999 spin-off, the delphi salaried plan was fully funded whereas the delphi hourly plan was underfunded. delphi's original plan was to emerge from bankruptcy proceedings without terminating the pension plans. in 2009, four years after delphi

filed for bankruptcy protection in 2005 it was, its pension plans would need to be terminated. as a result, delphi entered into agreements with the pbgc to terminate the delphi salary plan and the delphi hourly plan and placed both plans under the trustee ship under the pbgc. treasury did not have a role in authorizing, approving or consenting to the termination of the delphi salary plan. in 2009, in connection with the bankruptcy proceeding of old gm and delphi, general motors' company agreed to honor certain commitments into which ogm had entered including the 1999 top-up agreements. new gm had stated publicly that although the delphi bankruptcy was, quote, a very difficult situation, it felt it had made appropriate provisions at the time of the spin-off in 1999.

the questionious submitted to dr. bloom primarily on the task force of the auto industry was involved over the decisions made by the pbgc and regarding the pensions of former employees and retire ease of delphi as mr. bloom explained in 2009 and more recently before the subcommittee, it -- to avoid uncontrolled liquidations at a time when our economy and our financial system were already severely stressed. president obama agreed to extend that assistance provided that the companies produce a viability plans as to how they can become competitive. on july 15, 2009, president obama made up a task force made up of cabinet-level officials to improve the viability plan of the companies. the overriding objective that guided the auto task force was

to bring much-needed stability to the crucial sector of our economy and keep hundred of thousands of americans working and give general motors and chrysler a chance to become viable at competitive american businesses. as treasury officials have stated, the president directed the auto task force to take a commercial approach and ensure that in any restructuring, the companies took on only those liabilities necessary for a successful operation. the auto task force refrained from intervening in the day to day decisions of these companies. these companies restructuring, including gm agreements in 1999 were consistent with those principles. these matters have also been reviewed by the nation's judiciary in true contexts as well as by the government accountability office as you may know the termination of the delphi salary plan and the placement of the pbgc are currently the subject of

litigation and black versus pension benefit corporation and the court dismissed on september 2, 2011, the court dismissed a portion of the case against treasury and the auto for secretary geithner and ron bloom. in addition, the bankruptcy court in the southern district of new york reviewed and approved gm's bankruptcy and reorganization. in assessing the new gm's decision to honor the top-up agreement, the bankruptcy court found no violation of the bankruptcy code or applicable case law, and concluded that as a matter of reality, the purchaser needs a properly motivated workforce to enable the new gm to succeed requiring it to enter into satisfactory agreements into uaw which includes an arrangement for the uaw retirees. in addition to the bankruptcy judge and the district court approved the transaction in every step. none of those judges seriously questioned the validity of the

legal process which was typically, and because of the size of this case and the interests at stake, gm's chapter 11 case can hardly be regardeds routine. gm's proposed section 363 had no new ground. this is exactly the type of situation where there is a good business reason for an immediate sale, end of quote. it is march 30, 2011 review, leading to the termination of the delphi or hourly and salary plans, gao stated, and i quote, the auto task force did not ind dhat what should be done with the delphi pensions, end of quote. >> we are committed to continuing the transparency, and there's an extension of public record a ail vabl concerning treatment and congress has held several detailed hearing on the subject and there are a number of court filings, bankruptcy

court opinions and oversight reports and statements from delphi and general motors. dell treasury has posted online certain key automotive industry financing program documents which are available at financial stability.gov pursuant to a request from you and other members of the house committee on oversight and government reform and treasury has provided numerous documents and related to the delphi matter. gm underwent a fair and open bankruptcy. this process required deep and open sacrifices from stakeholders, including workers, retirees, suppliers and creditors and countless communities that rely on a vibrant american auto industry. however, the steps that the administration took not only avoided a catastrophic collapse and the needed stability to the auto industry and they kept hundreds of thousands of americans working and gave gm a chance to once again become

viable, competitive american businesses and they avoided further shocks to our financial system and the economy at a time when we could at least afford it. thank you for your continued attention to this important matter. please feel free to contact me or my staff if we can be of further assistance. sincerely, timothy gene. >> mr. bloom, do you have anything to add to that and have you learned anything else in an effort to satisfy the chairman's questions? >> no. >> all right. i yield back. >> mr. bloom, i want to thank you for, and some of the questions that i provided you in writing june 22nd, on june 22nd of last year that you had committed to answer in writing that you've never submitted answers to, and the reason why i appreciate you sitting here and answering them is because i wanted on television, and on the

record, both your demeanor and your lack of answers to be evident. mr. bloom, we've had this hearing because you refused for 14 months to answer sig tarp's questions. you had to come to our hearing because we had subpoena power, they don't. you said i would be glad to answer sig tarp's questions. you're not glad to answer anybody's questions and you're not glad to answer mine or anybody's and you had billions of dollars and thousands of people's lives, taxpayer dollars. and it's people are not only hurt. they're angry and this is exactly, contrary to what president obama promised us with the most open administration, not someone like you, sitting in front of us, unwilling to answer the questions. i want to -- mr. cummings read the letter and i want to

emphasize the letter that he read that is on page two at the bottom which says pbgc, this is the subject -- let's see, as you may know, the termination of the delphied salary plan under the trustee sharp currently the subject of the litigation in black versus benefit guarantee corp. this letter is not an answer to the questions i had submitted to you, and then we have, and i'll submit these to the record. secretary geithner's answers which were similar questions that were posed as opposed to you. we were trying to find out how were the decisions made and who made them so you can have the oversight over taxpayer dollars because that's how our govern am works. it's open and it's a democracy. you're not playing with the undiscretionary dollars of the president. you're actually affectuating and administrating taxpayer dollars. so geithner had the same questions. i'm going to submit these for the record and he says openly in the beginning answer that the

termination of the retirement program for salaried employees are currently the subject of litigation in black versus pbgc. i cannot comment on the specifics of any pending litigation and then for the next eight pages specifics of anything in legislation. then for the next eight pages, i cannot comment specifically on these topics as they are the pending litigation. i cannot comment specifically on these topics because they are the subject of pending litigation. he goes on to the next one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 30, 32, 33 almost 35 questions to answer the same way that he can't answer us. so here we sit. people have lost their pensions.

billions of dollars spent. the secretary of the treasury went answer the questions. you won't answer the questions. cig tarp has many of them. we're going to work on their processes of trying to solicit from you substantiative and valuable answers to the questions. this question has subpoena power and deposition power. i can assure you, we can continue to revisit this with you and your panel members. i would certainly hope that when you say you're going to participate and answer the questions that it's certainly going to be more thorough than your answers here. mr. bloom, we're all waiting for a report that's going to tell us what happened. this process should not be in this manner because of your commitment to the taxpayers. do we have your commitment that

we will work to reflesh your recollection that we will try to answer fully to the greatest ability the questions that cig tarp has for you. >> i will answer the questions to the best of my committee. >> we have votes being called. we're going to adjourn here. live coverage now from central high school in grand junction, colorado, where candidate mitt romney is holding a town hall meeting. his first town hall meetling since holdingdown in euclid, ohio, last may. live coverage now on c-span3. >> china's been stealing our designs, our patents, our know

how, our brand names. it's been hacking into computers both corporate computers as well as governmental computers. it's manipulating our currency, the president refuses to recognize that currency manipulation officially. if i'm the president of the united states i have a very different view than his. my view is his trade policies don't work to create american jobs. do you think they're working to create american jobs? >> no. >> by the way, he likes toe talk about outsourcing. he's run some interesting attack ads on me on that topic. you may have seen that. interestingly an independent, unbiased fact checking organization looked at his ads and looked at that attack and said it's false and misleading. it is interesting when it comes to outsourcing that this president has been outsourcing a good deal of american jobs himself by putting money into

energy companies solar and wind energy companies that end up making their products outside the united states. if there's an outsourcer in chief it's the president of the united states. not the guy who's running to replace him. [ applause ] there's another part of his policy that relates to the economy. that is every year trillion dollar deficits. do you believe permanent trillion dollar deficits will create american jobs? >> no. >> let me mention one more. that's regulatory burdens. look, you need to have regulations to make an economy work. you can't have people all running off and starting banks, for instance in their garage and taking money from their neighbors. you have to have regulations to make an american effective and laws do that as well. so you need regulation. but you need them updated and modern. this president has increased the rate of new major regulations by about threefold over his

predecessor. do you believe adding regulations helps small businesses grow and add jobs? >> no. >> okay, it's unanimous. the president's policies are not creating jobs. it's making it harder for this economy to recover to have this president pursuing liberal policies that didn't work in the past and certainly won't work now in a modern america. i have a very different vision. [ applause ] let me mention five steps i'd take to get this economy going. number one, i'd take advantage of our energy resources, our coal, our gas, our oil. our renewables. [ cheers and applause ]

>> number two, i'm going to take advantage of trade opportunities particularly in latin america. we can open up new markets for our goods. number three, i'm going to cut back on the size of government. it's taking too much out of our paychec paychecks. [ applause ] >> my test -- look, i'm going to look at all the programs we have in government and ask this question, is this program so critical america that it's worth borrowing money from china to pay for it? and on that basis, the first one i'm going to get rid of is obama care. [ cheers and applause ] >> so one energy, two trade, three cutting back on the size

of government. four is make sure that our workers and kids have the skills for the jobs of today and tomorrow. we need schools that are the best in the world now in the bottom your tile or the bottom third. the president talks that talk. but look what happens when the president's largest contributor to his campaign and the campaigns of his fellow democrats comes from the teachers unions. it means that the teacher union boss haves a big say. too often the interest of these union bosses is placed ahead of the teachers and our kids and that's got to change. [ applause ] >> and one more. and perhaps the most important in some respects. and that is, the fifth i'll mention is restoring economic

freedom. [ cheers and applause ] >> this country's economy is propelled by free people pursuing their dreams, working hard, and some cases starting small businesses. in some cases reaching for new job opportunities that they think will improve their lot or improve their family's lot. it is americans dreaming, building, creating, entrepreneurs, innovators that drive our economy. and that put us ahead of europe and the great populated nations of asia. this economic freedom was envisioned by the founders. they said that the constitution -- excuse me, they said that the creator endowed us with our rights not the -- [ applause ]

>> and those rights of course were protected through the constitution. among those rights that they described in the declaration of independence, were life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness. that phrase, pursuit of happiness means that in this country people would be free to pursue happiness as they choose. not as government directs. not limited by the circumstance of the birth. it's the nature of america to have free people pursuing their dreams. and dreams -- and dreams are being crushed when taxes go up and up and up on job creators and business creators. when regulations becoming overwhelming and burdensome. when the people in the government treat you like you're the enemy instead of the friend. if i'm the president of the united states what i will do is do everything in my power to make sure this is the best place