reasonable and only right for the future of this country, for the future of our kids and grandkids who have to pay for this bill. and the cost of wars, the cost of other government programs, is high. and so everything has to be on the table. we have to make sure our country is safe, first of all, from those who want to attack our country, where there's terrorist activity, rogue nations, we have to make sure we have a strong defense. otherwise, our children are going to be in a vulnerable position. and so i believe that this is -- this is only reasonable. this is a minor cut to the big picture here of the problem that we continue to only make worse. and with that, mr. chairman, i yield back. >> would the gentleman yield? >> yes. >> i thank the gentleman for yieldinging. i just wanted to join you in your sentiments and point out when you talk about the federal government's deficit, which is projected this year to again exceed $1 trillion, i think

$1.2 trillion, the amount of the additional reforms and reduction in increases -- this is not a cut in food stamps, reduction in the increase in food stamps, those reforms would result in about an additional 16 or $17 billion in savings per year -- over ten years. so about 1.6 or $1.7 billion per year while we're facing a deficit of $1.2 trillion per year. this is a tiny, tiny amount of that savings. yes, everything else needs to be on the table. and food stamps are giving a disproportionately low share of the reduction as i think people would recognize. there are people in need, and therefore we can't cut as deeply as would be necessary to do it across the board. so i think the gentleman's amendment is very reasonable and i support it. >> thank you. i yield back. >> the gentleman yields back. the chair doesn't see any additional requests for recognition.

the chair will recognize himself to strike the last word and yield myself five minutes. i appreciate my neighbor from kansas' efforts in working towards greater reforms and reductions in the s.n.a.p. program. however, part of this process is crafting a comprehensive total farm bill. i believe it's in the best interest of that process that we maintain the balance that we have in this bill. i have to oppose his amendment. the base bill makes a strong, bipartisan commitment to achieving sufficient, significant reforms in savings in s.n.a.p. our bill already achieves more nutrition savings than any other bipartisan deficit reduction working group. we achieve four times more than the amount of nutrition savings as compared to the senate-passed bill. this bill -- the base bill is a major step in the right

direction. and at this time, in the effort to ultimately achieve the savings we set about to accomplish, i have to urge my colleagues to oppose this amendment. and with that -- >> will the gentleman yield? >> i happily yield to the gentleman from texas. >> one other point, mr. chairman. i too would love to have deeper cuts, and in a lot of programs, including this one. but i also recognize that this may very well be our only option -- only realistic chance of getting a bill to the president's desk that has a meaningful reduction in the rate of growth and food stamps. and so while i voted on a stand-alone basis for the reconciliation bill a couple months ago, all of us recognized a chance of actually becoming law, this will become law. if we somehow break the coalition that's put together to get this out of committee tonight, then we will have squandered our one real good chance of getting beyond the $4 billion that's in the senate

bill. so i would also encourage my colleagues to consider not supporting this amendment. >> wise words from the gentleman from texas. he yields his time back to me. i yield my time back. the question now on the amendment from the gentleman from kansas, the amendment number 40, is for passage. all those in favor of pass ing amendment number 40, signify so by saying aye. all those opposed? it would appear that the nos have it. the gentleman from kansas asks for a recorded vote. the clerk will call the roll on amendment number 40. >> mr. goodlatte. >> aye. >> mr. johnson. >> no. >> mr. king. >> aye. >> mr. neugerbauer. >> aye. >> in connoway. >> no. >> mr. fortenberry. >> no.

>> ms. schmidt. >> no. >> mr. thompson. >> no. >> mr. rooney. >> no. >> mr. stutzman. >> aye. >> mr. gibbs. >> aye. >> mr. austin scott. >> yes. >> mr. tipton. >> no. >> mr. southerland. >> aye. >> mr. crawford. >> no. >> mrs. rowingy. >> aye. >> mr. heelscamp. >> aye. mr. desjarlait. >> aye. >> mrs. elmers. >> aye. >> mr. gibson. >> no.

>> mr. hopegreen. >> no. >> mrs. hartzler. >> aye. >> mr. shilg. . >> no. >> mr. ribble. >> aye. >> mrs. nil. >> no. >> mr. peterson. >> no. >> mr. holden. >> no. >> mr. mcintire. >> no. >> mr. bosswell. >> no. >> mr. baca. >> no. >> mr. cardoza. >> no. >> mr. david scott. >> no. >> mr. quayer. >> no. >> mr. costa. >> no. >> mr. walls. >> no. >> mr. schrader. >> no. >> mr. kissel.

>> no. >> mr. owens. >> no. >> ms. pingree. >> no. >> mr. courtney. >> no. >> mr. walsh. >> no. >> ms. budge. >> no. >> mr. sablan. >> no. >> ms. sule. >> no. >> mr. mcgovern. >> no. >> mr. chairman. >> no. >> mr. chairman, the vote is 13 yays to 33 nays.

. >> thank you. >> mr. chairman, point of order. >> the gentleman reserves the point of order. i guess first off, state your amendment number please. >> i've never had a point of order before i started an amendment. >> mr. chairman, i have amendment number 103 at the desk. >> i reserve a point of order, mr. chairman. >> apparently mr. ribble reserves a point of order against amendment number 103. the gentleman reserves a point of order, sponsor of the amendment is recognized for an explanation. mr. cardoza. >> thank you, mr. chairman. this amendment strikes the language in the bill that modifies the title of the fresh fruit and vegetable program in order to restore the congressional intent. as you know, the 2002 farm bill included a four-state pilot program that would provide a free, fresh fruit or vegetable snacks during the school day to school children.

the intent of the original program has always been to focus on fresh fruit and vegetables, exposing children in low-income areas to a wide variety of produce they're unlikely to find at home. every other usda procurement program currently allows for all forms of fruits and vegetables to be included in the school feeding programs. in 2008 -- in the 2008 farm bill, we expanded the program nationally and it was focused on low-income elementary school children. currently, approximately 7,000 schools and 3 million school children participate in the program. the bill we are considering today would open up the program to all forms of fruits and vegetables by striking the provision, relating to it being a fresh-only program. the specialty crop farm bill alliance, the national coalition of more than 120 organizations, representing growers of fruits, vegetables, dried fruit, tree nuts, nursery plants and other

products, opposes this change. there is no significant evidence from the approximately 7,000 schools or most importantly, the children who benefit from the program, that they desire to make this critical change to ffvp. the ffvp has been transformational. it has demonstrated that kids like fruits and vegetables and will eat them when offered. a wide variety of fresh fruits and vegetables as snacks at school. the ffvp is a snack, not a meal. the goal is to provide a healthy, low-calorie snack for kids during the school day. eating more fresh fruit and fresh vegetable snacks is recommended as a strategy to increase children's overall fruit and vegetable consumption and decrease total calories. frozen or canned vegetables as a mid morning snack would not be as appealing to most children. many frozen or canned fruits resemble a dessert or ice cream, and many processed products contain added sugar.

also of concern is that it appears the chairman's mark provision related to this is not in the jurisdiction of the house agriculture committee, but the house education and work force committee. what the house agriculture committee -- while the house agriculture committee has clear jurisdiction over the funding of the program, the education work force committee has legislative oversight over the policy matters related to this program. this change is clearly in the policy realm, and therefore, a clear violation of the jurisdictional rules that govern the house of representatives. my amendment is very simple and it restores the intent behind the original fresh fruit and vegetable snack program by putting the word "fresh" back into the program title mr. chair, i understand that a number of members of the committee wish to weigh in on this matter. but it is my intent after they have the opportunity to weigh in to withdraw the amendment. >> the gentleman is understood. i believe we'll proceed in the following fashion. i will ask if the gentleman raised the point of order if i insists upon it. he'll make his point, i'll offer

a ruling, and at that point we'll have time for discussion on the matter. >> since the gentleman offered to withdraw, i will withdraw the point of order. of order. >> sometimes we are even more efficient than i can handle. gentleman has withdrawn his point of order, and the gentleman states that he will withdraw his amendment. the chair would recognize the gentleman from california for five minutes to yield for discussion on this if there's still discussion on the point? >> not on the point of order, but on the amendment. >> underlying issue? >> yes, on the underlying issue, i move to strike the last word. >> gentleman is recognized. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman, those of us who had the opportunity to work on a

bipartisan effort in 2008 on the farm bill were pleased with the efforts that really provided a greater ability to bring fresh fruits and vegetables into our nation's schools and the effort of this program, i think over the last three years have been very successful. clearly, we are all concerned about the challenges of obesity, specially among the young people, and establishing good dietary habits, especially in the schools, with fresh fruits and vegetables is a primary, i think, goal toward long-term eating habits that will allow americans to be healthy throughout their lives. my concern with the underlying bill is that it really broadens the intent from 2008 that potentially could take away from all of the fresh fruits and

vegetables that i think are available for our public and especially for our young people and our schools, which this program has established and expanded. so, i want to support the essence of the amendment and urge as this measure goes forward and hopefully we get to a conference committee, that we try to maintain the importance of the fresh fruits and vegetables grown throughout the country and so many of the states, those are the kinds of of good foods to establish long-term important dietary habits for the young people that i think benefits not only our coupling public, but it benefits our farmers and ranchers who grow these very important commodities. so with that, i yield the balance of my time. >> gentleman yields back. >> mr. sunderland would like to weigh in on this issue.

i yield. >> i would like to thank the gentleman from california for yielding and i associate myself with mr. cardoza and his comments. i first want to thank the committee, or thank the chairman and ranking member for the work that they are doing regarding specialty crops and coming from florida, we are the second largest producer of specialty crops in the nation. over 250. and i just, i know that our farmers are working extremely hard, the 250 crops that we provide to, aide and assist for fresh fruits and vegetables and i just, again, associate myself with the comments and thank you for taking the lead on this issue. i yield back. >> thank the gentleman, and i exercise my intent to withdraw, mr. chairman. >> the gentleman withdraws his amendment, therefore there's no topic to discuss to amendment,

does anyone else have an amendment to title four? the gentlelady, just one second? yes. the gentlelaty is recognized for an amendment. >> i have an amendment at my desk. i believe it's number five. >> clerk will distribute amendment number five. let me go ahead. >> gentlelady can proceed when she is prepared. >> i thank everyone for the work they have done on the bill. and the current poll in the snap program allowing utility allowance. this amendment is the same provision that this committee

has already voted on when it was included in the house agricultural committees' part of the hr 56.52. the amendment would require snap recipients to show information -- relative to hr 60.83 this amendment would save 9.38 billion over ten years. the amount of snap benefits that a household qualifies for is based in part on their net income which is totaled from deducting the -- they can deduct a shelter deduction, which means what they pay for utilities in a household. this payment is standardized through a standard utility

allowance which can be worth several hundred dollars per month. many people offer for a standard utility allowance if they receive a payment through the low income home energy assistance program commonly referred to as laheap, if they receive as little as $1 per year, they are qualify for the allowance whether they pay for utilities or the size of their bill. this can translate in more than $100 in snap benefits per month for those households. while not every sftate applies o this extreme, several states send the payments to abuse the loophole. the bill requires a minimum payment of 10 dollars, however i believe it's not doing enough.

my amendment would save over ten years a $14 billion over current law and $9.38 over hr 60.83. the bill that is before us in saving over ten years. i ask my colleagues to vote yes on this amendment and, mr. chairman, i yield back. >> the chair recognizes himself, and strikes the last word and recognizes himself for five minutes. i thank you for the attempt to address the concerns. i feel the bill addresses that concern in a more balanced fashion. as my colleagues know, there's different ways to close the loophole, by carefully considering all the options, the base bill closes the loophole that is being exploited by the states. at this time, i encourage my colleagues to support the current portion of the bill.

and i ask them to oppose this amendment and i yield back. and i believe the gentleman from california seeks recognition. >> i move to strike the last word. >> the gentleman is recognized for five minutes. >> i'm opposed to this amendment as presented to us. fully repealing the snap connection could cut snap benefits by $14 billion. three billion people would see a reduction of $90 per month in benefits. it's a target to low income households who cannot afford to pay their energy bills. eliminating the connection with snap directly targets the poorest among us for the benefit cuts. this amendment would harm low income seniors. and you have to look at during the winter months and other months, when they need it and the snow comes in, a lot of the

seniors need the additional assistance. people with disablity and the working poor would need to help. something is seriously wrong when these are the priorities we are debating in congress, we have a moral responsibility to take care of our brothers and sisters, whether they are seniors or poor people, this bill goes in the wrong direction and i had ask my colleagues to vote on this imbalanced amendment. >> seeing a request for recognition, gentleman from california. >> i'll make it brief. >> you move to strike the last word? >> yes. we have a moral responsibility to balance the budget. that means that we have to make decisions to cut things we may not want to cut. i do not take a great pleasure to cut this. the moral responsibility that we have is to balance the budget, and i hope we will support this cut. i plan on voting for it.

thank you. >> gentleman yields back the balance of time. we will now proceed to vote on amendment number five. all those in favor of amendment number five, say aye. >> aye. >> all those opposed say no. >> no! >> to the tin ear it would appear the nos have it. the nos have it? the nos do indeed have it. >> roll call please, mr. chair. >> a roll call has been requested, the clerk will call the roll. >> mr. johnson. >> mr. king? >> aye. >> mr. king, aye. >> mr. nogborrow. >> aye. >> mr. conaway. >> no. >> mr. forten bury? >> no.

>> mr. fort endrl -- fortenbury no. >> mr. stutzman? >> aye. >> mr. stutzman, aye. >> mr. tipton? >> no. >> mr. tipton, no. >> mr. sutherland? >> aye. >> mr. sutherland, aye. >> mr. crawford? >> no. >> mr. crawford, no. >> mr. hillscamp? >> aye. >> mrs. elmers? >> aye. >> mrs. elmers, aye. >> mr. gibson? >> no. >> mr. gibson, no. >> mr. partsler? >> aye. >> mr. schilling?

>> aye. >> mr. schilling, aye. >> mr. rible? >> aye. >> mr. peerson? >> no. >> mr. pearson, no. >> mr. hullen? >> mr. mcintyre? >> no. >> mr. mcintyre, no. >> mr. boswell? >> no. >> mr. bosswell no. >> mr. david scott? >> no. >> mr. david scott, no. >> mr. costa? >> no. >> mr. costa, no. >> mr. walls? >> no. >> mr. walls, no. >> mr. schrader? >> no. >> mr. schrader no. >> mr. kissel? >> no. >> mr. owens? >> no.

>> ms. pinkry? >> no. >> mr. courtney? >> no. >> mr. welch? >> no. >> ms. budge? >> no. >> mrs. suel? >> no. >> mr. mcgovern? >> no. >> mr. mcgovern, no. >> mr. johnson? >> yes. >> mr. johnson, yes. >> mr. thompson? mr. hold en? mr. cherraichairman? >> no. >> mr. chairman, no. mr. chairman, the vote is 17 yeahs and 27 nays. >> are there any other amendments?

>> thank you very much mr. chairman. and i have not had the opportunity mr. chairman, to thank you and ranking member peterson for finding come ground on the farm bill. mr. chairman, i have an amendment to file with the clerk, i'm sorry. and i think it's amendment number 95. >> clerk will distribute amendment number 95. >> mr. chairman, i move to strike the last word. >> you are recognized for five minutes. and gentleman from texas reserves the point of order. the gentleman may explain his -- is recognized to explain his amendment. >> thank you, mr. chairman. the purpose of the amendment is to get feedback on whether the reimbursement rates, the second secretary of agriculture uses for u.s. territories -- the

secretary has the authority to set differentiates for alaska and hawaii and the territories, but he has only done so for alaska and hawaii. my amendment asks the secretary to report to the committee and to the committee of agriculture and forestry to show how the cost compares to the current reimbursement rates. of course, there's a discrepancy, we want want to find a reasonable adjustment, but this amendment makes to requirement in that respect. it simply means to get more information. and so, amendment number 95, will require, again, the secretary of agriculture to report to the house committee, on the cost of providing school lunches and other meals and supplements in the u.s.

territories in comparison to the national reimbursement rates under the russell school lunch act and child nutrition act. i -- thank you, i yield back, mr. chairman. >> before you yield back, will you yield to the chair? >> yes i will. >> i appreciate where the gentleman is coming from. i believe it will not fall under the jurisdiction of the committee and i would certainly ask the gentleman to consider withdrawing his amendment. >> i will consider -- mr. chairman i will withdraw the amendment and work with you and ranking member peterson to find way to obtain a waiver from the appropriate committee and maybe move on in to a future -- as we progress with the -- with the farm bill, and pass it in the house. and at this point in time, mr.

chairman, i withdraw the amendment. >> we will absolutely work with you, the ranking member is recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i believe the senate has this jurisdiction and we don't. we went through this last time. and in the final bill, we ended up doing some things in that area because of the jurisdiction situation and got the committee over here to sign off. so i think we get the conference, we can get something done with this. i don't see anything wrong with what he is trying to do. we look forward to trying to help you. >> mr. chairman, i'm very grateful again to you and ranking member peterson for the many things you have done to get this bill up for markup and we will all work on it and get it on the floor and passed. thank you very much, mr. chairman. >> mr. gentleman withdraw amendment number 95? >> yes, i withdraw and move to