rejecting this particularly. back in the mid '90s there was a move, jack will remember it, in new labor to say in modernizing britain, does it mean putting this behind us and doing something rather different. it seems to me the political rejection is more about what politicians do and say and how they behave rather than this. >> well, i don't know. let's have a look because i'm just being told -- sorry, jack -- i'm just being told the prince of wales, duchess of cornwall are just arriving. this is the irish state coach. just catching the strains of the national anthem. that's the band of the welsh garts dire guards directed by major kevin roberts. providing a guard of honor for the queen and the duke. they will be arriving soon. here we have the prince of wales and the duchess of cornwall. they attended the state opening for the first time together last

year. the prince actually hadn't attended the state opening i don't think since 1996 before last year, though he had attended several before then. so this is the second time that they've attended as a couple, and they are now arriving at the sovereign's entrance under the victoria tower, and what we'll see a little later on is charles and camilla seated at the queen's side just on the right-hand side of the main throne in the ceremonial chairs, the chairs of state which are being brought in for them. so this is a relatively new development that we're seeing. a real sense as well, nick, last time, although these obviously are things that we deal with sensitively, that is by the way the duke of norfolk, he is in charge of the really big events

of state, including coronations, state funerals, really significant events. he is here today because really he's the organizing mastermind of the state opening. i just mentioned the sensitivity around the understandable process of looking ahead and the fact that charles and camilla taking, you know, a more prominent role in events like this. >> not just in this, but we remember cha charles went to the g-20 summit in sri lanka instead of her majesty. so inevitably, yes, the palace are the first people to say we need to plan ahead, we need to consider how her majesty will manage as she gets older. we were hearing the other day of things that she no longer quite felt able to do at a particular ceremony. what always strikes people here is how well she seems to cope with an occasion like this. we all think of our own friends and relatives of similar ages and think -- we think of

ourselves. we think not sure i'd quite manage that at that age. >> charles is a youthful 65, so it's a slightly different context. just going into the robing room there. i mentioned earlier, and that's where, of course, they will wait for her members of the jury sti majesty to arrive. before we get to the main event today, which is the delivery of the speech itself, a thought on how the speech is put together and, you know, a thought really about a kind of political tensions that there might be because, you know, you have two different parties, you're facing a contest next may. can you tell us about the process of getting the queen's speech together, which isn't betraying too many secrets? >> i think you touched on it earlier in your program is that there are many people who said in 2010 this coalition wouldn't last, it couldn't work, it's not the way politics is done in britain. what we've shown is where we have a common goal, there was a lot wrong with our country back then back if 2010. we'd gone through the deepest

recession in almost 100 years, and those challenges the country faced brought the coalition together, and we focused resolutely on those areas, those policies, so that's bringing the deficit down, welfare reform, a whole host of other changes, but what you will see from the speech today is that there's still a lot more to do. we've got a long-term plan for that, and it's something the coalition is still working very hard together on. >> i think what people perhaps don't realize is that, of course, what the queen's speech reflects is perhaps the competing demands of different ministers and they all want to get a bill in that session, and, of course, the time is limited, particularly for this session as we know that it's a ten-month session. so it's trying to balance the competing demands of ministers and also to some extent making sure coalition partners are comfortable with the content and there are things, again, without prejudging what's in it, but, you know, we've heard about things to do with child care and pensions which i have mentioned which are strong things that the

liberal democrats want to see. equally, there would be things in the queen's speech that reflects the conservative prirts within the coalition. >> nick, just a thought on the priorities. >> what's revealing is what is not in there. if this was purely the conservatives on the eve of election, there would be a bill on the european referendum. there isn't. they probably have another bill on immigration. there isn't. if the lib dems are in government on their own, there's all sorts of things they'd want, a reform of the social progress they wanted to make which the tories aren't willing to back. you want to look at what's not there as well as what is there. a little example, will there really be a promise of legislation to make all cigarettes sold in plain paper wrapping? i just have a hunch they might say consultation ongoing, may take a little while, not ready to have a new law quite yet. just a hunch. >> this is the lord speaker's possession, so we were talking to the baroness earlier, first lord speaker to be appointed.

this is baroness de souza and the principal door keeper there. they're making their way to the area that the head of the staircase. there will be others congregated there. there is blackrod who has such an important role to play later. duke of norfolk on the right. we caught a glimpse of the lord privy seal. we have the next procession and this is the lord chancellor's procession. this is chris grayling, the first nonlawyer to be lord chancellor for hundreds of years actually and given that jack straw has done this and is sitting next to me, thoughts on this procession, jack? >> well, the main thought is to make sure that you stick to the injunctions imposed on you by the lord great chamberlain and the earl marshall at the

rehearsal and you literally do not put a foot wrong. it's a bit like juggling or riding a horse. you just got to concentrate. and i was -- this bit is pretty straightforward, but there are bits i worried about a lot like going up the steps and then coming back and backwards down the steps and remembering which door i should leave from, and the first time i did this i left from the wrong door and the duke of edinburgh upbraided me for this on his way out. so there's lots to worry about and precisely because chris grayling, ken clark, and i are the first commoners to have ever done this since thomas moore and we all know what happened to him. >> did you make the threat, by the way? >> not quite but he might have. >> so these are the peers who will be in the procession carrying the sword of state and the cup of maintenance. we have lord hill, the leader of the house of lords nearest to us, and general the lord walker,

former chief of defense staff. they will be responsible for processing with the cup of maintenance and the sword of state. so all of these principal players now getting into place, and we've seen the lord chancellor and the purse bearer because the purse that we saw actually contains the speech itself. it would be rather difficult if the purse was empty. >> you have a spare copy in your pocket. >> is that right? >> yeah, yeah. >> well, what a great sight coming along past parliament square. this is the new diamond jubilee state coach in public for the first time, and four divisions of the sovereign's escort led by the blues and royals, third and fourth divisions, the lifeguards and their scarlet tunics, the white plumes, and there you really have a sense of the intricate work that's gone into this coach. no wonder it took eight years to build. ♪

♪ the guard of honor provided by first battalion guards. then we have a good view of the george iv diadem the queen is wearing.

made for george iv. it is the diadem she wore on the way to the coronation back in 1953. so what's going to happen next is the queen is just passing behind us, it's a great view we have here actually. there we are. it's a great view. you can just see the roof of the coach that goes into the victoria tower. there will be a fanfare to signal the queen's arrival and the royal standard will be unfurled replacing the union flag atop the victoria tower. ♪

♪ >> the fanfare sounded by the state trumpeters. the queen and the duke of edinburgh arrive for the state opening of parliament preceded on the staircase by the heralds who in the past were royal messengers. these days are in charge of all the heraldic rules and customs of the college of arms. the senior herald, thomas woodcock among them just following the black rods, david leeky, who is preparing for his starring role in the state opening when he goes and summons

the commence a lit later on when the queen gives that signal. there is thomas woodcock, the senior herald. andrew landsly there with barons de souza, chris grayling, the duke of for nonorfolk on the le. the white wand of authority of office because he's in charge of this royal part of the palace of westminster and the queen attending, remarkable to say, her 61st state opening of parliament. celebrates her 88th birthday this year. the duke next week will celebrate his 93rd birthday. to making their way into the robing room. the george iv diadem will be replaced with the imperial state crown. and the royal gallery, the heralds getting ready to lead this procession in state. the state procession, which is

only seen at the state opening of parliament and at the coronati coronation. so it's a rare event, and it's a special event. black rod david leeky ready to make his way down towards the central lobby. and he'll wait there for the signal from the house of lords because that will be his signal to make his way down to the house of commons and to summon the mps. so let's join vicki again because she may catch sight of block rod again in a second. >> that's right, hugh. here we're waiting for the speaker's procession. just over my shoulder you can see inspector joe kennels who is preparing for hats off strangers which he shouts as the speaker

comes through telling the public to take their hats off in deference to the speaker. he has admitted to me to a little bit of nerves and he has a jewel role today. he has to do that and then he will accompany black rod through here up to the doors of the chamber of the house of commons where black rod will have that door, of course, slammed in his face. >> all of that drama to come because, of course, it's a very, very powerful symbol of the supremacy and power of the house of commons. that's what it's about. there's lots of drama and we can enjoy that, but it signifies something very important. so when the police inspector gives that warning, hats off strangers, we'll know the sneaker is on his way and we'll know, too, that we're not far off then the moment when the queen will emerge in the royal gallery itself. and really i suppose i'd ask you this point, jack, given that you've been there and done it several times. at this moment once the queen is in the palace, there's very

little you can do. it's all stet in stone. >> it's completely set in stone, but going back to the discussion we had earlier, this is not just pantomime. there's real importance in the fact that black rod is sent by the queen to summon her parliament, her house of commons, but the door is slammed shut, and that goes back to the extraordinary divisions that blew up during the civil war, the fact that charles i sent soldiers in to the house of commons to arrest five members of parliament and did arrest them, and ever since then no sovereign has been allowed into the -- onto the floor of the house of commons, and we decide whether or not we're going to walk along and hear what the queen has to say. so it symbolizes this balance of power, not only between parliament and the queen but crucially between the elected house of commons and the appointed house of lords. >> is that point always clear? i mean, do you think people

understand the significance of that part of the ceremony, which is something to do with the very important struggle that took place, the fact that the house of commons today has a very, very different purpose and status to the upper chamber? >> i don't think they actually always do and it's always worth explaining that again and again even though i know that, just listening to jack there explain it again, it does just remind you of the importance of this, and as jack said, this isn't a pantomime in any way, shape, or form, this is about our history and our heritage, and this shows just the importance of it. >> so waiting patiently in the house of lords. hundreds of peers right now. there we have michael grade, lord grade, one of the great figures of broadcasting. we'll see if we can just see a couple of other familiar faces. there we have michael howard, the former conservative leader. it is blackberry, i think.

>> a blackberry tweeter. >> obviously very important, whatever it is. >> and members of the judiciary, of course, here today. as jack straw was saying earlier representing the different parts of the constitutional settlement, and former minister there, former conservative, and then became labor. that's quentin davis, isn't it? >> it is, indeed. >> and then we've seen a couple of other familiar faces, too. baroness is there, a conservative. sorry, nick, you were going to say? >> i was only going to pick up what jack straw was talking about in terms of the ceremony as well. the people who come here often who don't know any of the history, you can't be in this building over there and become imbued with it, the speaker who defied the monarch, and that's why we have the ceremony and basically said i'm the representative of the people, i'm not the representative of the monarchs said the speaker as he refused to cooperate with the arrest of these five members of

parliament, and each of those symbols gradually members of parliament, some like myself who come as a correspondent, you learn it as you show people around and very few people, even real critics of our constitutional settlement end up thinking that that doesn't matter. >> tom? >> well, i suppose i'm more on the modernizer wing, and, however, i think this ceremony is one that provides a historical explanation for what our parliament does and why it does it. i think it sets a framework in which then the business of the house can be performed in a much more efficient, functional manner. so i think it works. >> let's have a look in central lobby because i am told the speaker's procession is on the way. the police inspector ready to give that command for hats off, strangers, and we'll see the procession itself, the speaker with the sergeant at arms and he'll be accompanied by the

chaplain, rose hudson wilkins. so what i expect is they've left his office, they'll come up along the library corridor and then they'll turn left, i think i'm right, jack, in saying that, turning left into the central lobby. i'm trying to get my geography. >> it's right, but never mind. >> it's right. depending what side you're coming from. >> he will be turning right. >> absolutely. >> he's coming from the will evident -- left. >> whichever way he's coming from, he's going to turn right. >> we're told he's seconds away. as soon as the procession emerges -- i think we're almost there actually. >> speaker!

ha >> hats off, strangers. >> led by the door keeper and then the sergeant at arms, lawrence ward. started off in the postal service. carrying one of the ancient maces. again, symbols of the authority of the commence, followed there by mr. speaker, john burko and there we have the speaker secretary and the speaker's chaplain in the procession. they're making their way down into the members lobby of the house of commons. >> speaker! >> very different in sense and in style and in texture to the house of lords, and the speaker being acknowledged by lots of fellow members of the house of commons. there will be a short session of prayer.

that's a traditional start to the day in the house of commons, which we won't be showing on camera, but once the speaker is in and settled, they'll be waiting then to be summoned by black rod. so the door is shut. the mace will be placed near the dispatch boxes. signaling that the house is to be in session, and then we'll be leaving the commence at that point. the prime minister there. the scene in the central lobby. so the bell signaling that prayers are taking place in the

chamber of the commence. let's have a look at the royal gallery because that will tell us something about what's going on there in terms of the timing. there you have the doors to the robing room, and they're all waiting for the signal on the lord great chamberlain to come out, and he will note that the queen is ready to process. all the heralds waiting patiently, the gentlemen at arms. another group of royal bodyguards. they will raised by henry viii unlike the yeoman of the guard raised by henry vii, and the state trumpeter is ready to sound the fanfare. lord great chamberlain has now emerged ready to give the signal.

♪ >> the procession in state is under way of this 61st state opening of parliament involving

her majesty, the queen. the queen has given regular audiences to 12 prime ministers and celebrating 66 years of marriage to the duke of edinbur edinburgh. the duke of wales, the duchess of cornwall taking their place in the procession. the heralds leading the way. the lord speaker, lord privy seal, and lord chancellor, the earl marshall, lord great chamberlain, and there we have lord hill barie bearing the cup maintenance and general the lord walker with the sword of state. her imagine industry and duke of edinburgh and then the beiges of

honor, the honorable charles armstrong. making their way into the prince's chamber which is dominated by vast marble statue of queen victoria but there are portraits of tudor monarchs dotted around the prince's chamber as well and then that leads directly into this great chamber of the house of lords. a chamber which has seen so many changes over the past century. everyone rises. the queen will take her place on the principal throne next to the duke of edinburgh. the two chairs of state on the left for the prince of wales and the deutscuchess of cornwall. and the queen will give a signal

to send black rod. >> my lords, pray be seated. >> the signal has been received. black rod in a very determined way steps off from the heart of the palace of westminster in the central lobby. that is where members of the public can come in and meet members of parliament, where they can lobby their member, if you like. black rod's approach is being announced there by one of the

officers of the house. and the doors to the house of commons, as we explained earlier, will be slammed in his face. a demonstration of the independence and the authority of the house of commons. >> close the door. >> steps into the chamber of the come me commons to deliver the queen's message. >> mr. speaker, her majesty, the queen, commands this honorable

house attends her majesty immediately in the house of peers. >> coalitions last stand. >> veteran labor mp, dennis skinner, venturing this queen's speech might be the coalition's last. i have some guests in studio who vigorously disagree with that. so the procession from the commence. they will walk along the corridor which leads to the central lobby and then up to the house of lords to listen to the speech.

it's a great moment always because everyone is so cheerful and chatty. >> cheerful and chatty but they think quite hard, the leaders of rifle parties, given we will be seen on camera and someone somewhere will try to lip read what we're saying. so finding a safe topic to talk about particularly when there's no love lost. i think these two probably get on rather better than david cameron and gordon brown did, but the truth is they fell out over syria and david cameron's pretty angry with miliband's stance on that for example. so finding the words to use is not always the easiest. >> one of the stories about british politics is, yes, there are some exciting incendiary moments but on the whole people get on with each other. there's no rule that says you should not get on with people on

the other side less well than people on your own side. whilst you've got the opposition in front of you when speaking from the government benches, you have the enemy behind. you haven't got rival rries in e same whiay. >> i wonder if the subject around you, kit, could be a matter of which all could satisfactory discuss in an open and frank manner. >> children are often discussed. >> they're both off to d-day with her majesty, the queen, they may be having a conversation about something like that. >> i also think it's really important for the public to see that despite the fact they're going for a prettying uned fiing shouting match every wednesday morning for a half hour, they're normal human beings. there's a lot of common ground between them as well. >> they experience the same things, they face some of the same challenges and get some of

the same private briefings. >> and we've all got the same problem of how we interest more british citizens in the process of politics. >> so they're waiting for the signal from the lord great chamberlain so that the lord chancellor, you can just see him there, here we go, the duke of norfolk is going to tell the lord chancellor to deliver the speech. it's done very carefully. we get ready for the last queen's speech of this parliament. >> my lords and members of the

house of commons. by government's legislative program will continue to deliver on its long-term plan to build a stronger economy and a fairer society, to strengthen the economy and provide stability and security, my ministers will continue to reduce the country's difficult sit helping to ensure that mortgage and interest rates remain low. an updated charter for budget responsibility will be brought forward to ensure that future governments spend taxpayers' money responsibly. my government will also continue to cut taxes in order to increase people's financial security. my ministers will implement measures to increase further the personal allowance and to freeze fuel duty. measures will be brought forward for a married couple's allowance

which will recognize marriage in the tax system. legislation will be introduced to help make the united kingdom the most attractive place to start, finance, and grow a business. the bill will support small businesses by cutting bureaucracy and enabling them to access finance. new legislation will require ministers to set and report on a deregulation target for each parliament. the legislation will also reduce delays in employment tribunals, improve the fairness of contracts for low paid workers, and establish a public register of company beneficial ownership. legislation will be introduced to provide for a new statutory code and an adjudicator to increase fairness for public

hou house tenets. legislation will impose higher penalties on employers who fail to pay their staff the minimum wage. measures will be brought forward to limit excessive redundancy payments across the public sector. in respect of national insurance contributions, legislation will be brought forward to tackle avoidance and to simplify their collection from the self-employed. my government will introduce a bill to bolster investment in infrastructure and reform planning law to improve economic competitiveness. the bill will enhance the united kingdom's energy independence and security by opening up access to shale and geothermal sites and maximizing north sea resources. legislation will allow for the creation of an allowable

solution scheme to enable all new homes to be built to a zero carbon standard and will guarantee long-term investment in the road network. my government will continue to implement major reforms to the electricity market and reduce the use of plastic carrier bags to help protect the environment. a key priority for my ministers will be to continue to build an economy that rewards those who work hard. legislation will be brought forward to give those who have saved discretion over the use of their retirement funds. my government's pension reforms will also allow for innovation in the private pensions market to give greater control to employees, extend the isa and premium bond schemes and abolish the savers ten pence tax rate.

the overall benefits bill will continue to be kept so that public expenditure continues to be controlled and policies will be pursued so people are helped from welfare to work. my government will increase housing supply and home ownership by reforming the planning system enabling new locally led garden cities and supporting small house building firms. legislation will be brought forward to sell high value government land encouraging development and increasing housing. my ministers will continue to promote the help to buy and right to buy schemes to support home ownership. my government will continue to deliver the best schools and skills for young people. in england my ministers will help more schools to become

academies and support more free schools to open whilst continuing investment to deliver more school places. further reforms to gcses and a levels will be taken forward to raise standards in school and prepare school pupils for employment. my government will increase the total number of apprenticeship places to 2 million by the end of the parliament. my government will continue to work to build a fairer society, to improve education attainment, and child health. my government will ensure all infants will receive a free school meal. free child care will be extended to more of the most disadvantaged 2-year-olds and a bill will be introduced to help families with child care costs.

a bill will be introduced to strengthen the powers to prevent modern slavery and human trafficking while improving support for victims of such crimes. a bill will be brought forward to provide that where a person acts heroically, responsibly, or for the benefit of others, this will be taken into account by the courts. legislation will be introduced to improve the complaint system in the armed forces through the creation of an ombudsman. a serious crime bill will be brought forward to tackle child neglect, disrupt serious organized crime, and strengthen powers to seize the proceeds of crime. my government will continue its program of political reform. my ministers will introduce

legislation on the recall of members of parliament. my government will continue to implement new financial paths for the scottish parliament and make the case for scotland to remain a part of the united kingdom. my ministers will continue with legislation giving the national assembly for wales and welsh ministers more power over taxation and investment. my government will continue to work with the administration in northern ireland to rebalance the economy, promote reconciliation, and create a shared future. draft legislation will be published providing for direct elections to national park authorities in england. members of the house of commons. estimates for the public services will be laid before you.

my lords and members of the house of commons, the united kingdom will work for peace and security on europe's borders and for stable relations between russia and ukraine based on respect for national sovereignty, territorial integrity, and international law. my government will host the nato summit in wales as a sign of the united kingdom's commitment to the alliance. my ministers will strive to improve the humanitarian situation in syria, to reduce violence and promote a political settlement. it will work for a successful transition in afghanistan and will work towards a comprehensive nuclear agreement with iran. the united kingdom will lead efforts to prevent sexual

violence in conflict worldwide. my government will work to promote reform in the european union, including a stronger role for member states and national parliaments. my ministers also champion efforts to secure a global agreement on climate change. prince philip and i will pay a state visit to france and will attend events to mark the 70th anniversary of the d-day landings. we look forward to welcoming his excellency, the president of the republic of singapore on his four forth coming state visit. other measures will be laid before you. my lords and members of the house of commons, i pray that the blessing of almighty god may rest upon your councils.

>> the speech is being delivered and the lord chancellor places the speech back in the purse. the pages of honor step forward to help with the train. it's 18 feet long and weighs a lot.

the queen and the duke acknowledge the assembled peers and leave, again, through the prince's chamber back through the royal gallery down to the robing room before they leave the palace of westminster. gentlemen at arms there forming a guard of honor inside the prince's chamber. the prime minister. along with deputy prime minister prepared to leave the chamber of the lords with the queen and the duke and back through the royal gallery. a reverence in the queen's speech to the state visit to france because this is an incredibly busy week in anyone's

book. state opening today, and then there are several garden parties this week involving thousands of people at buckingham palace and then a three-day state visit to france which involves a visit to paris to meet president hollande and the prime minister, and then to normandy for those special 70th anniversary commemorations of d-day. that is on friday, this friday. and then more events for the queen and the duke in paris on saturday morning before they return. so it's an incredibly busy week for them. the prince of wales and the duchess of cornwall will also be in france for the d-day 70th anniversary. back into the robing room, which

during the second world war served as the chamber of the house of lords because the building was very badly damaged. the house of commons itself almost destroyed. so commons led in the lords and the lords met in the robing room. so the return to the house of commons, the chief secretary to the treasury and here we have the speaker, secretary at arms. and the gentleman there with the beard, i just want to mention him actually just before he disappears. that is sir robert rogers. he is about to retire after 40 years of service in parliament. so just wanted a quick mention

of sir robert and the work he's done. i'm sure lots of mps will be pleased to be able to recognize them. and a little later on we hope that he'll join vicki for a little chat about his time. so the queen's speech, the last of this parliament, and, yes, people were saying that it was going to be a little thin, but as we went through it, nick, making a list, the list was quite long. not just of bills but i suppose of aims and ambitions. >> yes. her majesty has to read out political party propaganda. it seems like it would be better of what government would like to do instead of things like long term plan, continue to cut taxes, increase the personal allowance and all that other political guff that is put in her mouth not just by this government but, frankly, by the last one as well. if you look at the to-do list because that's what the queen's speech is, we have 11 new bills. that's not very many.

it's the lowest number since the year before the last general election. i think there were ten in that year. i'm sure tom will say to me, hold on, there are six bills that are continuing to make their way through. in other words, they didn't quite finish in the last parliamentary session after we finished off, things like the high speed two bill for example to come in. with the available time, that will keep people reasonable lyr. what busy. what jack straw was saying, where is the real meat? there are important things that people may carry passionately about whether it's plastic bags or modern slavery. there are things that matter desperately that politicians do. the real meat though in terms of the argument probably and the one that we may well still talk about in 20, 30 years' time is the reform of pensions. that's a dramatic change to the way people save. >> i'll ask you to a second,

sergeant. you had an important treasury role. let's remind you what the queen said about pensions. >> my government's pension reforms will also allow for innovation in the private pensions market to give greater control to employees, extend the isa and premium bond schemes, and abolish the savers ten pence tax rate. >> well, a few elements there, but really the pension reform, if someone is watching who simply doesn't understand what the pension reform is about, in a sentence, what is it? >> two major things. there's two pensions bills. the first one refers to the announcement made at the time of the budget which is to allow people at the point of retirement to use their pension funds as they wish essentially. so they will no longer be obligated to purchase an annuity. so it's a huge amount of pensions freedom to those people. with any significant change there's risk. i don't think anyone is pretending there aren't, but

what we've proposed and what this bill will do i think is a lot better than the current system and our view is just simply that if people have been sensible enough to save their entire working life, put this money aside, they're also going to be sensible when they draw that money down and we shouldn't force them to make a choice that may not be right for them. the second pension bill is about offering more alternatives in terms of how you invest in the private pensions market, and it's referred to as the collective pension schemes which have been used in other countries such as netherlands which basically is an alternative to some of the other current offerings we have which allow people to pool their investments together to effectively take charge of some of the economies of scale that will come from that by having reduced costs and we think that will eventually lead to potentially higher pensions. it's providing more choice in the way you invest. >> will all of that be law by the next election? >> i hope so. that's certainly the intention. it's there in the bill. can i pick up on one point that nick was saying.

there's 16 bills in total in this queen's speech. it includes three draft bills. by the same measure, that is three more than there were in labor's last in the last queen's speech. we have heard a number of labor spokesman saying in terms of quantity, the government has run out of steam which is completely incorrect. also what matters most is the quality, not the quantity. the quality of the change we are seeing here, continuing to build on what's been said and the queen said herself. we have a long-term plan. that's what matters. with labor, they might have had more bills during their time in parliament overall. don't forget it left us with the deepest recession in almost a hundred years. the biggest deficit of any g-20 country and the world's largest banking bailout. >> do you have a problem with the pension proposals?

>> no. they are about flexibility and freedom. they have been driven by steve webb who knows the most about pensions anywhere in the country. one other area is what we are doing in terms of infrastructure and the support we have been giving to small businesses. the fantastic record we have many terms of creation employment. the 1.7 million new jobs in the private sector, that's overwhelmingly driven by small business. we want to continue what we are doing in terms of deregulation. there are only 11 bills. one is the deregulation bill which i'm involved with which is about cutting costs to business and the public sector. >> the other theme, i will mention pensions in a second. i to ask you this as well as a former secretary. many youeurope, this is what th

queen had to say. >> my government will work to promote reform in the european union including a stronger role for member states and national parliaments. >> a stronger role for member states and parliament. what does that mean? >> it's really important that they say we are not going to argue about this. there should be a stronger role for national parliaments. interest aringly, in the lisbon treaty. part p of the problem was shared across parties is a cultural issue in brussels. this is not remotely party policy. i give a stronger ole to national parliaments by abolishing direct elections to european parliament. in my judgment it's failed. going back to the system we had before which was perfectly satisfactory where the parliament had representatives of national parliaments. we introduced changes to turnouts across europe going

down and down. i put it on the table. we need to think about it. it's not a policy. certainly as we saw in the local and european elections, there is a profound sense of alienation with the european union. i'm far from convinced you get it by having a referendum. we've got to see it brought back. i might be wrong but the last queen's speech -- >> the queen is just leaving. we'll pick you want in a second. the queen preparing to leave the palace of westminster. the heads of the armed forces lined up on the right. then sharing a little joke there. lord chancellor, baroness desouza, lord speaker. checking the purse for the speech. there you go.

it's a little bit late now, jack. >> i think the duke is explaining on one occasion the speech wasn't put back popperly. then the poor lord chancellor wasn't able to close the bag. it was heavy. you have to be really careful about it. >> so gives you a sense of this part of it is relaxed. the queen is a remarkable woman at the age of 88. she can still carry out these public duties. you must be relieved. the train is gone. obviously the formal duties are over as well. this is a moment which she can't relax. the tension is maybe a little bit over. >> so the members of the house

of cavalry paying attention to whole of the morning. providing the guard of honor for the queen's departure. taking her place at the vicinity of the sovereign's entrance. so those who greeted the queen will be there to say farewell. mentioned before they are in charge of the royal parks of the palace. i'm talking about the royal gallery and the roving groom. they have part responsibility for westminster. most of the palace is not done the royal jurisdiction. in charge of the royal bits of the palace of westminster.

another look at the brand new coach. ♪ the diamond jubilee stagecoach. >> a glimpse for us there of the inthe tier yor. there are lots of little inlaid pieces of wood, highly polished coming from places like windsor castle, canterbury cathedral. samples, if you like, which represent a thousand years of british and commonwealth tradition. it's a real work of art, to put it mildly. to signal that the queen is

leaving the palace. the university kwon flag, the union jack back in place above the pas has of westminster. the queen is ready to leave. the fanfare has sounded. the coach is leaving. once again we have to say in the studio here we have a rather splendid view of the queen's departure. there we have it. just the roof of the coach in view. although it's a rather dull day, a little wet. everything is gleaming. including the life guards providing the third and fourth divisions of the sovereign's escort today. the first and second divisions

provided. ♪ >> the national anthem played. then the prince of wales and the duchess of cornwall. they are visiting france and italy this the week. they have a very busy day on thursday meeting veterans in

normandy. they will then be taking part in the big event on friday which includes a service at the cathedral and then the cemetery. there is a big international event in the afternoon. it involves lots of heads of state and government from around the world. the main british event is with the last of the veterans this year. aen motional, poignant event. that's the makeup of friday. we expect the duke and duchess of cambridge at that event. this is the irish stagecoach which i believe was bought by queen victoria in around 52 when she visited dublin and took a liking to it. it was the lord mayor of

dublin's coach. seems a good bargain. for 700 pounds it was bought. i don't think we are putting a value on it today. we go back to the palace after the prince of wales leaves. the crown that was remade. just did again in 1953 for the coronation of the queen. the prime item on display. it's been taken down to the sovereign's entrance there. ♪

so this is the final part of the sceremony if you like. the once the crown has left, the formal parts of the state opening will be complete. the first stage early on. now we have andrew ford from the chamber office. as i described earlier the man in charge of events. garden parties. it's his responsibility to bring the crown into the palace of westminster. so first the sword of state.

to be followed by the maintenance which we can see down the right. safely inside. and then the crown jeweler on stand-by, to make sure with the barge master there just to make sure they are currently safe inside the coach. and the four royal watermen will be traveling on the coaches. that's the principal ceremony today.

mr. swift, the crown jeweler. been in post since 2012. so palace of westminster, rather calm outside now. we have had the main procession good. just on the departure. what do the recent elections tell us about the state of public opinion on europe. i will ask the colleagues as well. and are we likely to see it translate into real policy? there is a hint of something there in the queen's speech. what are we likely to see in real terms? >> what the recent electionses tell us is there is a level of discontent which is not just

reflected in -- but in the sentiment of voters of all parties. principally following the crisis in the euro. not a project i was remotely in favor of. that was a bridge too far. what's interesting is in many countries in europe you have parties which are explicitly anti-u. there are big debates including in germany about the repatriation of powers which are unnecessary. in this country there is a broad consensus about what needs to be done. we have to build up allies. one of my concerns about where mr. cameron is operating is the issue of who should be present as a commissioner. i share residence are vagss. lux bourg has not had an honorable role for example in terms of tax evasion and avoidance. i have reservations about him. you have to build alliances to

get the person you want. >> how important is your commitment to a referendum? >> i would have liked to have seen it in the queen's speech. we don't have coalition agreement on it. we have been trying to do everything we can through members bills the to try to get the referendum commitment through. it would have been great if that was in the queen's speech. it's something as a party we are committed to because what the elections did show us is there is significant discontent with britain's relationship with europe. too many powers have gone to brussels. they need to come back. that's our view. where i respectfully disagree is i don't think there is broad consensus on this. the liberal democrats and labor party are happy with the status quo. they have a suggestion about how more powerses could go to europe. you cannot get a renegotiation without having an in-out receive ren the dumb of putting it to

the referendum. >> we are in favor of reformers at the new level. parliament meeting in two places. that's got to be changed. we have already legislated as a coalition government for them to be a referendum. to the european union. i think what the argument is about is how can we achieve reform? what's the most effective way of doing that? is it by sniping from are the sidelines or by getting stuck in, trying to build allies, as jack said, and trying to achieve reform from well within the european union. >> we'll pause for a second. i will join vicky again with guests. >> oldest roles in parliament dating back to 1363. it's been held for three years by sir robert rogers who joins me now. tell me what it is like to take part in this ceremony. >> it's a fantastic

experiencement it reminds us that the queen and parliament, there are three parts. lords, commons and the queen. it is a day of terrific contrast. we have had this fantastic ceremony this morning. this afternoon, the house resumes. there is one survival. i have to read out the bill which underline it is fact that it is the right of the commons to po seed with business, regardless of what they may need to do in answer to the queen's speech. the framework in the morning and the hurly burly in the commons chamber many the afternoon is a great con krast. >> people don't realize there are hundreds of thousands of people who work here. you are in charge of 2000 people? >> something like 2000. yes. with a fantastic range of skills and experiences. we provide the service it is house needs to conduct business. it's everything from experts on

rebuilding woodwork which isn't directly about the house's business but it is about maintaining the incredible building in which we operate to research experts, the people who provide, the door keepers who help provide our security. it is a remarkable group of people. i'm proud to have been retiring this year. 31st of august. >> what's your favorite memory, quickly? >> it's a panoply of memories whether the confidence vote in 1979, great speeches, moments where the vote on syria perhaps, only months ago where the role of the commons suddenly became more important. >> great memories there. i'm told this is the legal owner of big ben. >> i think he's got a bigger claim to fame.

having read the biography until he can speak a bit of medieval welsh. he's a good man. >> he can take big ben with him. >> a quick sentence more. we are reaching the end of the coverage. what are we concentrating on. what is the theme going to be? >> for the liberal democrats it's about building a stronger economy. that's what we saw in the queen's speech -- an emphasis on why we saw matters in a fairer society. we are investing in child care, building what we have already achieved in relation to things like the pupil premium. >> these are coalition authorities. we have to continue with the long-term plan. this is a continuation of what you have heard today. you need to keep building a stronger economy. it shows there is more work to be done. >> your thoughts?

>> the biggest thing is about fairness. what was interesting is how it's flattered. over things like energy prices, what you do for the low paid, po vied greater security at work. along with the issue of housing as well. it's good rhetoric, but not enough performance from the government. >> there is no piece of legislation there that will dominate the election. the unexpected will come. fanchinily it will be on the campaign rail. mothing we hear today will change the electoral map. >> good of you to come in. thank you very much. that's the coverage over. more on the bbc news channel throughout the day. from the team at westminster, thanks for watching. good-bye.

back in washington on capitol hill, a senate subcommittee will hold a hearing in 20 minutes looking at the training and resources available to firefighters and first responders to communitieses threatened by wildfires. witnesses include the deputy chief of the u.s. forest service who is responsible for fire and aviation management. they will hear from the mayor of an alaskan community that was recently evacuated due to a massive wildfire. live coverage on c-span3 at 2:30 eastern. yesterday senators were briefed by white house officials on the release of bowe be are r -- bergdahl. they said they didn't inform

them of the swap because the taliban threatened to kill him if the deal was made public before it happened, according to three congressional officials who spoke to the associated press. the threat, not just concerns that the captives might be failing drove the administration to make a deal to rescue bergdahl. we talked about the legal issues involved. from this morning's washington journal we'll show you as much as we can as we wait for the senate hearing to get under way at 2:30. >> joining us now is a law professor from george washington university law school in d.c. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> we'll talk about the release of sergeant bergdahl in exchange for five taliban commanders. i was hoping you could walk us through the legal issues surrounding that. first of all for people who may not be aware if the white house wants to transfer prisoners out of the prison facility what do

they have to do legally? >> there is a law in which congress set standards. some are rather obvious. you know, there is a provision saying when you release someone from guantanamo bay you need to have the secretary of defense make certain determinations like this is not coming back in terms of risk that you will determine what's happening to them. the provision that's relevant is one that says before you make the releases 30 days in advance you need to tell congress. the administration has consulted with congress in the past. they didn't hear when they decided to pull the trigger, congress was left in the dark. many members said, look, this isn't a violation of the federal law. there is no question, i think, that this is a violation of the statute. there was no notice given.

the provision doesn't have are any loopholes or exceptions. the administration said various things as to why or whether it violated federal law. one was that it really didn't violate federal law. it interpreted it to mean it didn't have to notify congress. that left a lot of people scratching their heads. we comply with the law of notification by not giving notification. what they are saying is they have never really viewed the provision as constitutional. when it was passed president obama put a signing statement, something he said he would never do as a candidate that said i have real serious reservations about this provision. >> so let's talk about the provision, more of the national defense authorization act. white house press secretary jay carney was asked if the president felt he was above the law. carney replied, absolutely not.

obviously you have a reaction there. tell us what you're thinking on that one. >> that's a question where the answer seems obvious. if he said, yes, the president thinks he is above the law, most of us would be quite surprised. really, the controversy goes beyond the ndaa provision that we are talking about. i have testified a couple of times in congress in the last month or so. about a long litany of laws that the president has said he will not enforce or laws that he, through executive order has changed in significant ways unilaterally. many of the changes occurred after the president failed to get the changes many congress. so we have had hearings about the implications of that. you know, the president in his state of the union said he was going to go it alone. he was now going to circumvent congress. for many of us who teach the constitution, the response was applause which seemed to border

on self-loathing where you have a president saying i'm going to circumvent you. he has. it raises separation of powers questions. the issue related to carney goes more broadly. the president has circumvented federal law or said he won't enforce federal law. it's creating a crisis in this country. it didn't start with obamacare. i want to note that. -- obama. this whole expanding of presidential power didn't start with him. it's reached an unprecedented level. >> our guest is jonathan turley of the george washington university law school. for democrats call 202-585-3880. independents, 202-585-3882. you mentioned signing statements. i want to talk about those a little bit. we'll put it on screen.

a list of signing statements by a president. i want your take on what the evolution has been there. as of june 2, 2014. obama has issued 28 signing statements. that's compared with the tenure of the presidency president george w. bush, 228. president bill clinton, 381. p president ronald reagan, 250. what's different about the way president obama used signing statements, perhaps, in contrast to his predecessors? >> i have been a critic of signing statements. as a constitutional scholar they make no sense to me. they really aren't law. these are signing statements where presidents attempt to rewrite laws though they are signing the law. president obama signed the law and said, by the way, i don't think i have to comply with this law. you may recall i was a big critic of the signing statements which were in my view an effort to circumvent congress.

what's different is president obama ran on the issue. this is one of the big issues where signing statements were a sir couple vengs that they were wrong to do. he's had fewer but many people elected them believing he wouldn't engage in this type of thing. if you think the provision is unconstitutional don't sign it into law. what the president did is what president bush did in the past to sign it and say i don't think i will comply with the federal law. >> as our guest noted that's something then senator obama talked about during the campaign. we have a quote from may 2008. he said, i taught the constitution for ten years. i believe in the constitution. i believe obey the constitution of the united states. we are not going to use signing statements to do an end run

around congress. why do you think there was such a shift from what he said in 2008 and what's happening in 2014? >> i voted for president obama. i'm from chicago. i was happy to vote for him. but he's not the first that's changed while in office. quite frankly, the president has done a number of things different from what he promised in the campaign. for civil libertarians like myself, he's been a perfect nightmare in terms of what's happened in civil liberties, particularly the national security area. he's maintained many policies and expanded things like the kill list policy, surveillance issues of the kind. there is something that happened. this is not the world's most p prin prince led forum. they tend to view the constitution and the issues increasingly as niceties that these are technicalities. even someone who taught the

constitution, there is a corrosive effect. i think someone who is familiar with president obama as a senator and president, even though i voted for him -- i'm a columnist for usa today. i wrote a column after the election and said, you know, peel have the wrong idea of this man. i voted for him. principles of this type really aren't motivating barack obama as much as programs. he has a good faith desire to see programs occur, changes. that's a positive aspect of his personality. . he's never been as motivated by what would seem abstract principles like separation of powers. he's much more interested in getting things done. the american people like that about him. the problem is when you depart so much if the principles that you are creating a fundamental change in the system is. i told congress we are now at

what i consider a constitutional tipping point. the system is changing. it didn't start with president obama. it's changing in my view in a dangerous way. we are mott having a debate about it. >> i guess it's jonathan turley from law school. first is kathleen on the democrat line. >> caller: i have followed what you say and write for years you, especially during the bush administration. in regards to the bergdahl situation i'm looking at joe scarborough and guys who have are never served in the military. don't have are children who served. screaming president obama's decision. what's fascinating is i have to say washington journal as well. they don't have are a lot who have been there in these situations. so none of us who ever served,

have no idea what it's like to be in the situation. i'm not condoning whatsoever what he allegedly did. if president obama were to leave him there, you know, wouldn't that be exactly what we are complaining or people are complaining about him doing -- abandoning his comrades or whatever? i just think they had to do what they could do to get him released. that's an example of we don't leave people behind. though whatever they find out through the hearings, the other thing i have become aware of is what the soldiers have gone through by listening to the winter congressional hearings. i encourage chris matthews not to let the situation get so

extreme and scream about everything. >> first of all, i never made it beyond webelow. i'm hardly a person to hold forth on what happens to vets. i want to encourage one thing for you to think about. i don't think it is fair to tell folks that they can't comment on subjects relating unless they have served. that was a long criticism including of many democrats from people tharg arguing against cuts in the budget saying, you really are can't talk. you haven't been in uniform. i think some of the worthy of public debate. when it comes to being boots on the ground, that's a perspective we immediate to hear from veterans. as to the release itself i happen to agree -- though i

disagree with the sir couple vengs of separation of powers i agree. i happen to agree with him on things like the the environmental area and other areas like doma where he's taken the steps. as a constitutional scholar it concerns me a great deal. in terms of the exchange, i agree. how he ended up in the hands of the taliban is irrelevant. we can deal with that issue now as to whether or not he did desert. i don't think that's appropriate for folks to say, well, we should have left them over there. the public policy debate on the cost is a legitimate one. when you look at the five individuals. there are obviously going to be some deals that all of us would agree would be too high. you know, if the deal was everyone should be released from guantanamo bay and we should leave the country, you know,

there would be a question as to whether that's priced too high. that's a legitimate issue of public debate. >> burlington, north carolina. debbie is on the line for republicans. >> caller: thank you so much. thank you, c-span, for allowing me to talk to this gentleman. i wish i could have an hour with him. mr. turley, our forefathers gave us a constitutional form of government with a balance of power between three branches of government so that we, the people, would be no longer under the rule of a king. with this in mind, do you feel our president has acted in an imperialistic manner by bypassing a law he himself signed into being and if so, warning warning. do you feel his action is worthy of impeachment? thank you and god bless. >> first of all, the term

imperial presidency, i have useded in testimony before congress. certainly my writings. it's different than what people think of when we talk about the emergence of an imperial presidency. we're not saying president obama wants to be a tyrant or a king. i don't think it's in him. i don't think he wants to be tyrannical in any way. it's a president who can act unilaterally. he becomes a government unto himself. what'ses fascinating is president obama has accomplished many aspects. i spoke on the anniversary of the watergate controversy at the national press club. in the audience were a lot of survivors of the water gate scandal. i changed my speech at the last minute to ask how did nixon win?

50 years later or so, looking at the audience, just that morning the paper showed president obama doing many things that were in nixon's articles of impeachment. the type of unilateral action that nixon claimed. those powers are being used openly. what's changed? we have changed to some degree. the american people have become passive. there is a danger to this. the reason why president obama has succeeded is he's very likable. many people do like him. many people don't. he has a power personality. even his staunch critics don't view him as wanting power. he wants to get things done. having said that, i think it is dangerous. the trend we are going. we are seeing the system changed. the system is designed for three branches.

it is not there to protect the interests of the institutions. it is not there to protect congress, white house or the courts. it was designeded to protect individual liberty. the frame rs believe that the concentration of power would bring tiyranny and abuse. it stopped the concentration of power. we have lost it. the president is acting like a government unto himself. while you can agree are with the president, one thing i have told democrats in congress is this isn't going to be our last president. he doesn't have a lot of time left in office. these powers will last. what are you going to say when the next president says i'm going to suspend environmental laws or discrimination laws. what will you have to object at that point. >> before the segment started we were talking about the evolution among members of congress with the release of sergeant

bergdahl. i want to read tweets and get your thoughts on the congressional reaction. first comes from bradley by are rne saying secdef must answer whether release of taliban detainees poses threat. why congress not consulted. that's when bradley byrne, harry reid tweetses we rescue our soldiers first and ask questions later. if action by justice system is needed, i prefer american justice over taliban justice. one more tweet. on wsvn i said that administration's bergdahl swap sends dangerous message to the enemies and puts soldier lives at risk. your thoughts? >> a lot of democrats are walking away prosecute if the deal a bit. there is certainly a coalescing of views in congress that it would have been consulted. i think that's true.

the white house decided not to tell congress for little bitle call reasons. they did raise the issue about whether they could swap the taliban people and they got push-back from members of both parties. i think what you see in the backlash following the deal is the most likely reason they didn't notify congress. there is a sticker shock that comes from these five guys. some of the people were viewed as having connections with al qaeda. one is particularly bad. in terps of the deaths of hundreds, thousands of people. certainly the dislocation of oh thousands. the irony is the law was passed precisely for this type of case. the law was passed to allow congress to come in. one of the things i have emphasized is the framers were right. we end up with a better

government when things are filtered through the separation of powers, through the three branches. you know, sometimes a president needs to hear things. so the separation of powers forces presidents the to engage congress and, quite frankly, this would have been a good idea. the irony is he could have done it anyway. all he had to do was notify them. he could have worked out the issues. he would be in a better political place if he had done that. >> st. augustine, florida. owen is on the line for independents. >> thank you for taking my call. i think the guy thinks he's a king and is above the law. all these scandals, irs, benghazi, he didn't know nothing about anything. it's like the guy is inept or something. he's the president of the united states. if i was the ceo of a company, i would fire the irs if things like the spying with the news

media and when it all comes out, he didn't know anything. he pulls this stuff with not notifying congress. the guy thinks he's above the law. he held nobody accountable. he doesn't hold himself accountable. it's like the guy is a tyrant or something. >> if by above the law this means he can disregard federal law, that's manifestly true. he has done that. in the health care area, the gambling act, immigration. these are areas where the administration went to congress, asked for changes, wasn't successful. he then went and ordered the changes unilaterally. that's a direct attack, in my view, on the separation of powers. many things in my view are clearly legislative. the question you raise is a good

one. i'm saying i don't think it is in his nature. i don't think he's viewing this as a self-aggrandiz thing move. he rationalizes this like many presidents. we are all at fault. a president went to congress in the state of the union and said i'm going to go it alone. you had half of congress applauding wildly that they were about to be made into a functional nonentity. the framers assume regardless of your party that people in congress would with fight to protect their institution. that's what's changed. there used to be people like harry byrd in the senate who often did fight with democratic presidents. fought for the separation of powers. you don't have it anymore. the members, particularly in the senate today tend to be much more lock step with the party. even when they see their own authority being drained away.

in my view it is a foolish thing. this president has only a couple of years left. these democrats will rue the day they remained silent as their authority was drained away. there is no guarantee who the next president is. this is not going to be our last one. these powers will remain. presidents don't tend to give back power. >> an article published last night in the daily beast headlined the reason the u.s. didn't rescue bowe bergdahl. >> he was moved so often by the taliban captors that u.s. special operatorses would have had to hit a dozen possible hideouts hs in sppakistan at on to have a chance. u.s. officials say the obama administration also didn't want to risk the political fallout in

pakistan from another unilateral u.s. raid like the raid that killed osama bin laden in 2011. your thoughts? >> that sounds logical. i think none of us want to see soldiers put into harm's way unless we have a clear target and operation. you know, the bin laden raid is controversial legally. we did go into other nation without their approval. we did carry out a military operation and kill people within pakistan. while we feel that was justified, many people around the world view it as a clear violation of international law. imagine mexico did that. they took out a guy in san diego and then went across the border. we would be calling for a war. and so i think the reluctance to engage in these types of multiple operations in pakistan

makes sense. there are people who said people died looking for him after he disappeared. i don't know if that's been established. some folk miss the unit certainly believe that. i think that's another dimension the white house was balancing. >> next up, let's go to dalton, georgia. jimmy is on the line for republicans. >> caller: i have three questions. number one, i just want to warn the congress. he lied to the american people on a number of occasions. i don't think sergeant barza is the hero. none of the soldiers of his fellowship don't think he's a hero. they think he's a traitor.

and another question. what's the deal about the trade between the sergeant and the five taliban? what is the deal about that? >> you know, that's the general issue we have to deal with is people are getting their arms around the question of whether this was a price too high to pay. as to the reaction of congress, this is something i find truly mystifying. i have been around congress a long time since i was a congressional page. i have seen a change in congress. there used to be a core of members who did fight for the separation of oh powers. they have changed. congress is a different place. i don't think it is a better place. but my concern is that we have not only congress who is increasingly passive in the face of presidential overreach.

we have courts that adopted the policies or doctrines of avoidance. the courts removed themselves from many of the separation of power fights. the result is never what the framers thought would happen. we have the extraordinary expansion of presidential power in our country. neither of the other two branches are checking that power. the result is a new system is mernling. one different from what the framers intended and one that's less stable. that's the very essence of the madisonian system. it's giving us stability. it's why we have lasted when other systems have not. these are changes that are so fundamental, so important. it's astonishing that we have not had a debate about the this. >> our guest is jonathan turley of the george washington university law school. an e-mail question came in at the heart of what you were saying.

dean and chester writes would you think president obama is taking these actions to compensate for the dysfunction of congress? >> he is. but that's not a good enough excuse. the president said i have no choice. congress is not acting. i will act alone. many people applauded that as in congress. that truly mystifies me ft. first of all, there is a reason we can't get things done today. we are a divided nation. we're deeply divided on the issues. the areas where the president is acting unilaterally divided immigration and health care and the like. they are areas where we can't get a national consensus. we are a representative democracy. it does reflect the divisions. so when we are divided -- line here is your answer. what is a concern about

president obama is he's saying, i tried to get congress to do this. congress didn't do it so i have license to go it alone. there is no license to go alone in this system. for people who say, look, congress is so dysfunctional, i would note this. the framers designed the system for bad times because they lived for it. it's like they want to kill each other in congress. they were trying to kill each other back many the time of the frame rs. they had the alien sedition act. to say our times are different ignores history. this is the time that the system was designed for. the one argument i have little patience with from the white house is that he has a license to do this because congress won't do what he wants them to do. >> mike is on the line for independents. >> caller: it's an honor.

i have watched you time and again from the subcommittee. the one that jumped out was your response, i believe the irs subcommittee with the senate during the winter when you levelled some of the important accusations. herein lies the conundrum. i think it is. stuff gets talked about. in congress, within the congressional side, not the senate side. if i'm not mistaken, stuff gets passed up. there has been a roadblock in the senate side on a variety of issues pertaining to this. then you turn and see on the flip side the president going through using czars, using executive actions. bypassing everything. you state clearly this is dangerous. how do we address it. right now, there is a roadblock on the congressional side that

will never allow to have it addressed. look at what's come out in the last six months and the screaming and hollering. at the end of the day, what's resolved about it? many people get frustrated by that. then, of course, if you are just somebody who picks up the newspaper a couple minutes a day. you punch in. you don't have the luxury of getting it that quickly. 50% probably don't know what's going on. like you say, they just want to see something happen. guys, this could be bad. that's my comment, sir. thank you. >> that's an excellent comment. it is funny when -- >> all of this available at c-span.org. here on c-span3 we'll take you live back to capitol hill for a hearing looking at the training and resources available to firefighters and first responders in communities threatened by wildfires. that's senator mark begich of alaska. he's the chair looking into the

issue. a mayor from alaska will testify via video and the forest service deputy chief responsible for fire and aviation management. just starting here live on c-span3. >> it's a pleasure to have folks here. this is the subcommittee on emergency management intergovernment relations in the district of columbia. i apologize. i have a cold so i'm suffering. so i appreciate you being here. i want to thank you for being here to lend expertise to our discussion on short notice. we are here to look at the problems that are serious and concerns to many states for a while now. that's wildfires. this is a challenge that confronts communities of all sizes -- towns, villages, cities, states and the federal government. as a former mayor myself i know how important it is to have personnel resources to prevent and fight fires when they occur. the stakes are high. we must ensure that first

responders who are out there protecting lives, homes, businesses receive the training and support they need. that's why we're here -- to learn from these experts and leaders about the situation on the ground, across the country, from a variety of perspectives. we have to know where we are succeeding. there are different levels involved in fighting fires. from locals to various federal agencies it's important to have comprehensive protection and response no matter where a fire occurs. i know providing that protection has become more expensive. especially on federal levels. in the past 12 years, federal costs have averaged more than $3 billion a year. that doesn't include the $2 billion spent by state and local communities as well as other private spending. the costs are increasing. wildfire activity is growing. when you talk about wildfires, most people think of flat,

grassy states like montana or states hit by drought like california. as weather patterns have been changing with the rest of the climate, more states than ever are being hit by huge wildfires. in the past decade, acres burned up are up by almost 67%. right now in a.j. raj, more than 700 men and women are fighting a dangerous fire in the kenai. it's the funny river fire but there is nothing to joke about. they have been fighting to put it out since may 19th. they have done an amazing job. all the alaskans are grateful for their efforts. as of yesterday, the fire was 59% contained. danger to life and property has been eliminated. it scorched almost 200,000 acres of the forest. close to residents, businesses and individuals. it's early in the fire season for something of this magnitude in alaska. my state had one of the warmest

winters on record. now strong winds and low humidity are combining to allow the fires to grow quickly. over the weekend there were reports of 15 new fires in the fair banks service area from are chino hot springs to toque. to make sure we are as prepared as we can be that we have the resources and experienced personnel in the field, we have to look at the first responder hiring and retention practices. the skills men and women learn during training to become a firefighter, smoke jumper, hot shot team. members are invaluable. we must recognize their importance. not just with the words but in how we treat them. earlier today i was proud to introduce the senate version of the federal firefighter flexibility and fairness act to address a glaring misstep in how we treat federal firefighters. across the country, municipal

firefighters are able to work out changes in the schedule among themselves with vancouver approval. they can trade shifts without impacting their pay schedules, allowing them to take care of sick family members or attend children's important events. this type of flexibility is important to morale and life balance. i'm glad state and local firefighters have it. for some reason, federal firefighters do not. right now these men and women can only swap shifts within a two-week period. an accounting system the government uses ends up with one firefighter receiving no pay for the shift while the other receives overtime. it doesn't make sense. because the system is nonsensical, some departments don't allow shift swapping at all. i can't blame them. for not wanting to deal with the headache. this problem needs to be fixeded. treating our firefighters well is the moral thing to do. it is also fiscally responsible. the bravely and skills earned by

folks in the field make it more important to retain them as long as possible. attrition reduce it is effectiveness of firefighting teams which is unacceptable. we need to train and maintain the best teams we can. clearly that goes to more municipal firefighters as well. i have been a strong supporter of the important federal resours like fire and safer grants that go to the fire situation. firefighters have told me how beneficial the grant programs are. that's why i'm fighting the to roll back president obama's proposed cutses to the programs in this year's appropriation bill. as a member of the appropriations committee i'm committed to restoring the $10 million proposed are reduction. every dollar spent will save more in local communities. over the last -- on one last issue i want to bring up briefly before i introduce our witnesses is a broader issue that impacts

many firefighters in alaska. this advantage is to seasonal employees in the federal hiring process. i have been working with senator tester and looking closely at the bill he and senator the udahl introduced the land flexibility act senate bill 1120. seasonal workers are so important in alaska yns have different jobs depending on the season. many firefighters come from the lower 48 to help us fight fires in the summer. right now it seems to me the federal hiring practice isn't giving these seasonal workers who have developed great expertise over many years a fair shot if they want to transition to a full-time job in the same field. i'm glad to hear your thoughts on the issue. i look forward to the continuing discussion with senator tester. i'm not sad. i have a cold. let me introduce our witnesses.

i will start with mr. jim hubbard, deputy chief of the u.s. forest service, part of the department of agriculture. jim? >> thank you, mr. chairman. glad to be here. here. as you've noted, we're into the fire season and alaska is especially, arizona, new mexico are having normal fire activity but it's busy and the funny river fire is a bit unusual, you don't have 200,000 acres burn very often and that gets a lot of attention, especially with the values at risk and people in the way. what our season looks like is that june will continue to be that kind of a problem for alaska. maybe it will moderate by the time july gets here. i hope so. alaska went a little longer than usual in past seasons. as we move further into the season, we get into july,

california, oregon look particularly bad. nevada is not going to be good. so that's where we expect most of our problems. it will be scattered throughout the west as usual and we'll have surprises pop up all across the west. but those three states in particular look problematic. our forecast tell us we probably will be spending more money on suppression than we have in the budget. we'll go through that process again. we are prepared the inner agency forces are at 14,000 firefighters available to us. we have 14 large air tankers but could have as many as 22 under exclusive use contract before the season is over as those next generation planes begin to fly. we still have the 8 military unit surge capacity and we do

have the 72 engineer tankers under contract and more than 600 helicopters under contract. aviation forces and ground forces are in place for the season. the conditions are challenging, the changing conditions we face with climate and fuels and insect and disease have all caused problems, not to mention the development that has to be protected that's in the way of some of these difficult situations. risk reduction occurs on about 3 million acres per year. that's a substantial amount and it addresses some of the priorities. it does not cover the -- cover the territory that needs to be -- the risk that needs to be reduced. it is a combination of what you do on the landscape and what you do in the community and around

the community that will save us in the future some of our limiting factors have to do with the transfers that occur when we don't have suppression dollars and we have to take it out of other accounts to do so. how we budget for suppression has been an ongoing debate. you mentioned do we have the resources and right approach. perhaps that needs another look, another look such as was proposed by senators widen and crepo, and the agency continues to provide in their budget the initial attack and forces and cost of that initial attack. we do catch 98% of the fires during that initial attack period. it's the 2% that get away that

cost us about 30% of that expression budget and those are fires that are perhaps fall into a disaster category and ought to be treated financed differently. if that were to happen, we would hope that the agency could make proposals for using some of that budget constraint to increase the land treatment and reduce the risk further. that would be our approach and we would hope something like that could at least be considered. thank you, mr. chairman. >> let me ask william dugan, national president of federal employees next, please. >> thank you, mr. chairman. for inviting me to testify, our union represents 110,000 federal workers and for 22 of my 31 years in federal service i fought wildfires serving in many positions, i spent 15 years in

alaska. i can tell you fire fighting is a dangerous business. when you're on a fire, the only thing between you and trouble is equipment and brave men and women with you on the fire line. it's so important that we arm firefighters with the training and resources we need to be safe and complete the mission. the wildfire problem in the u.s. is growing. six of the worst fire seasons since 1960 occurred since 2000. we must recognize that this is the new normal and we must change the way we do business for account for it. with respect to training, the usda inspector general issued a report in 2010 that predicted future shortages in the forest service. too fi are being trained to replace those retiring. that prediction is coming to fruition and it is a major problem. they have done tremendous work to improve inner agency cooperation. the development of a consistent certification and training

system administered by the national wildfire coordinating group is an outstanding achievement. our union is proud to be a partner in the apprentice ship program which we hope will take consistency and training to the next level. unfortunately this program has been underutilized in our view. within the forest service, training resources are not reaching the field in a timely way. from one forest we're hearing the primary fire personnel are unable to attend training classes that are only offered out of state leaving them no option for certain training. at another forest we hear managers are getting the training budget too late to get employees into classes. congress can improve access to training by exercising oversight to ensure that the action items developed as a result of the referenced i i.g. report are properly implemented and make sure the program is used to the fullest potential. also, congress should make every effort to appropriate funds in a timely manner so resources get

to the ground in time to be used. with respect to workforce retention, the attrition rate is alrmingly high. something must be done about it. for a firefighter, experience is hard earned on fire line but firefighter career path is blocked by flawed and dysfunctional federal reregulatio reregulations. many begin their careers on temporary appointments and many return year after year acquiring valuable training and experience. however, firefighters looking to advance their careers face a critical barrier. current regulations do not credit service regardless of how long as qualifying for acquiring competitive status. because of this barrier to career advance xt,le skilled firefighters eventually leave taking valuable skills with them. to explain, agencies have the flexibility to fill positions from current employees under merit promotion or from among civilian applicants under the

process. over 2 million federal employees have the status to compete over merit promotion and firefighters classified as temporary workers do not. they cannot compete for jobs. we urge passage of the bipartisan land management workforce flexibility act, s-1120 which address this inequity. funding for wildfire suppression is also a problem. with the occurrence and severity of wildfires increasinincreasin expense of fighting wildfires exceeds the funds appropriated for wildfire suppression. when this happens, agency transfer funds from other programs into fire fighting accounts to cover the shortfall. this so-called fire borrowing results in cancellations and delays. ironically many of the canceled projects are those resigned to

reduce frequency and severity of catastrophic wildfires. it's robbing peter to pay paul and cost taxpayers more. we urge congress to pass the wildfire disaster funding act s-1875 to address this. i will conclude my testimony by quoting one of our members currently out on fire assignment in alaska. in alaska, we do have a well constructed tactical plan to deal with fires. the wild land fires are on the increase. we fight to put the fires out immediately and address hazardous fuels but sometimes they are allowed to grow into overgrowth and decay causing a harz ardous situation. it is time to take action to provide resources necessary to prevent this hazardous situation occurring in national forests across the country and protect communities from wildfire. these reforms cannot wait until next year, they need to be reacted on immediately. i thank the subcommittee and

would be happy to answer any questions you may have. >> all written testimony will be included in the record. we have kevin o'connor, for the public poll of international association of firefighters. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i'm here representing 300,000 professional firefighters and paramedics who provide fire rescue and ems services across our great nation. let me thank you for the introduction of the flexibility act and firefighters greatly appreciate it and for the support on appropriation for the other programs is very much appreciated by our organization. wild land fires increase in intensity and duration and scope, they are a threat from coast to coast, from 2003 to 2012, over 17 million acres have been scorched by wildfires, claiming over 300 lives and destroying 34,000 homes and resulting in $70 billion in insurance claims. as you know, mr. chairman, the