all weekend, every weekend on c-span3. to join the conversation, like us on facebook @cspanhistory for . >> next, the nation's 16th president described as a man with less than a year of former -- formal schooling but who schooled himself in america's founding documents. he uses abraham lincoln's own words to explain the principles that made him a self-made man of ideas. this event is hosted by the new york historical society and is about one hour. >> my dear friends of the new york historical society, we who love our country find it is called to admit how little we know about the vast terrain of our exceptional history. shall it is true that we never escape the burden and the .lory of the american saga

mortar lysed as it was on november 19, 1863 at gettysburg, presidentia, there, lincoln made his most celebrated reference to the declaration of independence. , everyon a time schoolboy come every schoolgirl, would have memorized "four score and seven years ago, our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal." now the declaration of independence established the founding principles of the american republic. the document itself written by thomas jefferson, edited and approved by the second continental conga spirit peter to printisked his life

this document in south carolina in 1776. it is this very same document that mr. lincoln revered throughout his life. true that he also made the declaration of independence the centerpiece of his political campaign for the senate and for the presidency. was, when the story of lincoln made my first memory, i learned much, much letter from a study in regional documents themselves that it was in 1854 that the struggle for the equality principle of the declaration of independence came to preoccupy the great man. that add to the day of his 1854 was the year of mr. lincoln's extraordinary

anti-slavery speech of october 16 at p oreo, illinois, after passage of the implicitly actslavery kansas, nebraska of 1854, mr. lincoln turned with a single mind to the prohibition of the spread of slavery in america. buggyt time, by horse and , sometimes in the saddle, lincoln ranged throughout the eight judicial districts of illinois. land.ngept for bidding a judicial circuit as large as the state of connecticut. heading homeward in early 1854, lincoln decided to do historical research on the slavery issue. intensive research and you --

and the original documents at the springfield, illinois state library. there in the archives in the thee library, he mastered historical evidence, the documentary evidence of the founding of america. and especially the relationship of the american founding to the history of american slavery. now it was only a few months a that mr. lincoln mobilized this documentary evidence in order to indict the pro-slavery senior senator of illinois, and america's most , democratitician stephen a douglas. is there on the portico of the ,300ia courthouse in 17 words, lincoln delivered as it would ever be known as "the eech."peoria sp

a three-hour and 10 minute argument to repeal the kansas, nebraska act and to justify further congressional prohibition of the extension of slavery in america. days in 1865, speech informed all of lincoln's great speeches and writings. mr. lincoln's reputation isldwide, i believe it insufficiently well known that mr. lincoln was almost entirely with fewer than 12 months of formal schooling. in the place at this schooling, he applied from boyhood a very effective, simple principle to gain his end. " work,mr. lincoln --

work, work is the main thing," he said. this54 at peoria, self-taught appellate court litigator, at that time a private citizen, could never imagine what awaited him in the future. only seven years had passed by when, in 1861, president lincoln knew that he was face-to-face with america's greatest crisis since the founding. it was in 1861 that he made clear to all, both north and south, that he had sworn an oath on the bible at his inauguration to preserve the union. in his words, "an oath registered in heaven. in order to fulfill that oath after the confederates made war

on the union at fort sumter in april 1861, president lincoln did accept work. after quarter years of battle and rivers of blood, history would vindicate not only the literary and retorts as rhetorical genius of president lincoln, but even more so, military, moral, and political .enius for the union had been restored, slavery abolished, these victories were achieved not by chance that from ultimately president lincoln's remarkable leadership, his resilient character, his uncannily good judgment. as president, mr. lincoln went almost, every day, draw one redline after another. when a crucial issue hung in the balance, he ruled decisively,

even harshly. seldom is his fundamental logic to act against slavery so well set forth as in a speech fragment believed to have been written, of course, by hams of to between 1857 and 1859. " the right of a black slave to the fruit of his own labor was made so claimed by our good father in heaven that all can understand it, even down to brutes and creeping insects, the defend theriously fruit of his labor. so plain that no one high or low ever does mistake it, except in a selfish way. for although volume upon volume is written to prove slavery a very good thing, we never hear of the man who wishes to take the good of it by being a slave himself." president lincoln's

keen sense of justice and honor, his determination to in the minute the illegal slave trade, which occasionally tromped his well-known compassion. february 1862, president lincoln signed order to delay the execution of a convicted slave , ader, nathaniel gordon powerful and passionate lobby pressed lincoln to overturn what would be the first death penalty applied to any illegal slave trader. in fact, the death penalty was the prescribed punishment. it had to be done. i cannot help him i would personally prefer to let this man lived in confinement and let him meditate on his deeds. yet, in the name of justice, it

is the majesty of the law. at one case, at least one specific instance of a professional slave trader, a northern white man, give an exact penalty of death because --the incalculable number of he and his kind conflicted among amid the horror of a sea voyage from africa." it was fewer than seven months after captain gordon met his fate that president reagan issued the giraffe emancipation proclamation. -- the giraffe. he gave confederate states 100 days to renounce rebellion. emancipation day would be january 1, 1863, when the commander-in-chief would issue the final emancipation proclamation at the meeting of the cabinet on september 22,

shortly after the battle of antietam. president lincoln announced to the cabinet his decision. secretary of the navy, and and wells, recorded lincoln's words in the cabinet. vow, an had made a covenant that if god gave us a victory in the approaching battle, he would consider and indication of divine will and that it was his duty to move forward to the cause of emancipation." promise. and emancipation proclamation was issued on january 1, 1863. almost more importantly thereafter, the union army, moving southward, became the soul of abolition, carrying the

emancipation proclamation into the heart of slave territory. as president lincoln wrote -- "the proclamation was an act of justice warranted by the constitution upon military necessity." according to the great black abolitionist frederick douglass who knew lincoln and studied him, emancipation proclamation bolt from the sky, an answer to the prayers of inspiring an awe- event on the road to black freedom." so it was on emancipation that lincoln spoke out boldly, but as his colleagues knew, mr. lincoln could be very catheter and -- very taciturn, even as his heart and her shut-mouth. in a short but cryptic note to the secretary of war in may of 1862, mr. lincoln wrote that a

kentucky politician wishes 500 arms for reasons which he will explain to you, unless you know some strong objection, please let him have them. disclosed mucht less than he actually knew. discreetly authorized by the president himself, these arms were smuggled into kentucky for union loyalists. in kentucky, a slave-owning state. arms needing to hold kentucky in the union. it was then that president lincoln was said to have remarked -- i should like to have god on my side, but i must have an techie. -- i must have kentucky. [laughter] i like it, too. we know also president lincoln

comes down in history as a man of mercy, especially with enlisted soldier boys. when first principles were at stake, he could be stern and unyielding. after antietam, union major john key suggested that the rebel confederates had not been pursued at antietam because it would have endangered slavery in the south. president lincoln -- [inaudible] my view, it -- "in for anyy inadmissible gentleman holding a military commission from the united states of america to utter such sentiments as major key is reported to have done. therefore, let major john key be dismissed from the united states army permanently."

begged to be reinstated, but mr. lincoln rejected the request. emphasizing, he bore major key no personal ill will, but dismiss you as an example and a warning to those union officers who do not understand that the confederate army must be destroyed." subduedhern rebellion and the union restored. contrary to an idiosyncratic academic interpretation that mr. lincoln was a passive personality, the primary documents, the facts, the witnesses, show him to be a man of action, decisive and direct, generally subtle, acting boldly when confident, he could

turn the event. when politicians start to cross him, mr. lincoln did not hesitate to defend himself, often aggressively. for example, summer of 1868, mr. lincoln learned that john j crittenden, the nationally respected senator from illinois was lincoln knew considering an endorsement of mr. lincoln's rival, stephen a douglas. .nstead of abraham lincoln so lincoln sent him a personal letter. he renounced any self-serving intention for crittenden's endorsement of himself, but he --he advised the famous senator, very much his would better be

hands-off." as his contemporaries observed, lincoln was an ambitious man. william herndon, his law partner of 16 years, described lincoln's a little engine which knew no rest. a speech fragment in lincoln's own hands, written in july 1858, confirms his high ambition and his integrity. anhave never professed indifference to the honors of official station, and were i to do so now, i should only make myself ridiculous. yet, i have never failed -- do not fail to remember that in the republican cause, there is a higher aim than that of mere office." 1858 was them in prohibition of the extension of

slavery in all of america. two years later, 1860 one he became the dark horse republican candidate for president. lincoln then defeated senator douglas for the presidency, his third campaign against senator douglas. but now his higher aim would be tried in the brutal courtroom of civil war. emphasized that president lincoln believed that the pick yearly or institute -- the peculiar institution of black slavery, as it was known him a present at the creation of the american republic, was a mortal threat to the american experiment in liberty and democracy. a democratic political experiment which, at that time, and habited almost an entire world of monarchies, dictatorships, and theocracies.

but lincoln knew from deep study of the actual documents of the american founding that the constitutional union of 1789 could only have been consummated if the founders accepted the southern states. with slavery. but by 1854, the growing power of the slave states seemed to command the future of the union. by commandeering the future of ,he new territories for slavery if new slave states could be carved out of the new territory, this could create a permanent slave power majority in congress . and so it was that during the 1850's, lincoln in every speech eric lee challenged the legitimacy of slavery in america and in the new territories.

showing, as he did, in 1860, at cooper union that the founders intended the american territories to be free of slavery, putting slavery in the course of ultimate extinction. in june of 1858, lincoln delivered the unforgettable house divided speech whereby he cast his law unequivocally with the more anti-slavery republicans. you know the unforgettable lines -- "a house divided against stand," "inot believe this government cannot endure permanently and have slaves, and i express this a year ago." of course, lincoln did not come in 1858, note that civil war was a mere three years in the future , but when it came, victory

would not be moved him. war, he had a will to win, and he urged it upon his party and upon his generals. on june 15 and 18 six to four, mr. lincoln telegraphed general grant as the army of the potomac , closed in on generally -- general lee at richmond. the telegram -- "i have just read your dispatch of 1:00 p.m. yesterday. i began to see it, your will succeed." the president deeply respected general grant and his will to win, because grant understood the inflexible word "must." in his very last public address on april 11, 1865, on the eve of add, victory, and i may

fascination, almost in the manner of a shakespearean aside, president lincoln revealed the objective moral code guiding his own conduct. may, mustt principles be inflexible." president lincoln was no moral relativist. despite so little schooling, his extraordinary autodidact was a man of profound religious historical him and intellectual .nsight magisterial english flowed from his pen as naturally as the mighty mississippi river runs, as he said, to the sea. his simple and elegant anglo-saxon prose avoids the latinate of the

academy. just as arguments against slavery evoke the first principles of the objective moral order. leading, as lincoln did, that it can never be a right to do wrong . we see this humane attitude in the president's classical free-market philosophy. he wrote that the full-bodied value of the working man's way must be seriously considered in the making of national policy. indeed, his economic policy was the robust successor to the nationalist economic program of , thender hamilton extraordinary first secretary of the treasury of the united states. thus also did mr. lincoln endorsed senator henry clay's american system, and economic philosophy inherited from hamilton which embrace the positive use of government power to enhance the free-market in ordery public works

to increase economic opportunity nationwide, to integrate a great nation, to enhance life and success for people from all walks of life. , the scope, the actions mr. lincoln's personality, his ambition, his intellect should lay to rest that mr. lincoln was a passive observer. to whom amazing things just seem to happen. or officer james mcpherson of tongue-in-cheek, gives this idea of lincoln's passivity, asking a rhetorical question -- "did lincoln really believe that it was god and not himself who ordained the attempt in 1861 at fort sumter, the decision to issue an emancipation proclamation, the decision to make grant general

and chief?" perhaps so, but i prefer to give lincoln some of the credit for this and other accomplishments. with that, i am reminded of the story of confederal jennet ticket who, when asked the reason for general robert e lee's route on the battlefield tt gettysburg, general picket is said to have answered, i think the union army had something to do with it. some academics, i believe, confused the city with the mature lincoln's lack of intellectual pretension and bully bluster. for example, lincoln's shrewd and modest a simulation when he said he did not control events but was controlled by them suggests not passivity but a

disciplined ego among national leaders. controle virtue of ego with the very essence of mr. lincoln's success. men,de him master of master of ideas, above all, master of himself. the truth is that abraham lincoln emerges from the original document from the events themselves as a man of ideas who made american politics not only a struggle for personal power, but also a battle of first principles. as the commander in chief in war, he showed us the character, the skill, and the persistence of a great warlord." in defeat, affiants. in victory, magnanimity. prime minister winston churchill

, four score years into the future. in 1864 with the outcome of the war still uncertain, president president ligon explained his philosophy to ohio soldiers visiting the white house. he suggested war itself was a struggle to create an open field and a fair chance for your andstry enterprise intelligence that you may all have equal privileges in the race of life. lincoln's equality was inequality of opportunity. in a.d. 57 at springfield, he 1857 atd -- in springfield, he explained in the founding document. "i think the authors of the declaration intended to include all men, but they did not intend to declare all men equal in all respects. they defined with tolerable distinctness in what respect

they did consider all men created equal. equal in certain inalienable rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of ."ppiness ligon's economic philosophy was patienton his confidence in the ultimate justice of the american people. "there is not of necessity any such thing as the free hired labor being fixed to that condition to life. the prudent and he was beginner in the world waivers for wages a while and saves a surplus with which to buy tools or land for himself, then labors on his own account for while, and at late, hires another new beginner to help him." this is the just and generous

and prosperous system which opens the way to all, gives hope to all, and energy and progress and improvement of condition to all. whereof he knew spoke. born poor, lincoln was himself of trulythe greatest self-made man. his quintessential american principles of self-reliance, decency, opportunity, and enterprise defined at the colorblind american dream of martin luther king. of 1860, i want every man to have the chance, and i believe a black man is entitled ." it a brilliant black abolitionist, for a group does frederick douglass, said president lincoln

was "the first great men that i talked with in the united states freely who in no single instance reminded me of the difference of color. above all, the black statesman declared, president lincoln was emphatically the black man's president. moreover, he was the first to show any respect for their rights as men. he was the first american president who rose above the prejudice of his times and of his country." will rightfully deny that president lincoln's constitutional legacy transformed american history? it was he who accepted war in order to uphold the constitution and the union, and with war, to free the slaves. here, byk, even we

what extraordinary internal compass did president lincoln direct this whirlwind on this question, the great warlord himself, as the whirlwind of civil war violence gathered? expect ton said, "i maintain this contest until conquered or my term expires or congress forsakes me or the country itself forsakes me." thank you very much. [applause]

>> i am a humble and obedient wevant, here to make sure have people at the microphones for questions. i want to repeat -- i think my main job is to make sure some of the students here tonight get a chance to ask their questions about lincoln are about american history in general. fair enough? i see there is a person of the microphone here, so why don't we start? >> first, i want to thank you, magnificent for exposition on lincoln. it paints an excellent picture. i have a question about, if my memory is correct, and ask you to reconcile how you explained -- i understand your picture of him as being personally opposed in principle to slavery. as i recall, and you correct me if i am wrong, he also at one point said, and i'm not quoting exactly, the that if i had to maintain slavery in order to

keep the union together thomas i will do that. if i have to end slavery, i will do that here that i have to slavery, i, and keep will do that because the most important thing is keeping the union together. i would like to hear your exposition if you agree i am correct in my memory as to how you reconcile that with his principles against slavery. isso your memory substantially correct. that was the letter of the great editor of the "tribune" to which , having sentding into canada to negotiate peace. all those who have seen the movie of "lincoln" no he was not only a principled man, but he was a very clever man. at that very time that he said of the new editor york "tribune," he was composing

the emancipation proclamation. so how does one explain the anomaly of this quote that he gave to the new york "tribune" editor and the fact that he was already in the way of composing the emancipation proclamation and determined to do it? it is because a vast number of northerners did not want to continue the war. they did not want to continue to war to abolish slavery or emancipate the slaves in the where the emancipation proclamation freed them. so he had to be what he was, an extraordinary politician. i would prefer, statesman. he had to continue to keep the northern -- that is to say, the northern immigrants, primarily, who were either proslavery or so pathetic to slavery, he had to keep them in the union and keep

them fighting, even though they do not want to fight to end slavery. while at the same time he knew ,hat the only way the south specially the slaveholders, could be defeated was by denying them the most important asset, which was supporting the war, mainly slavery. on the one hand i'm a you are correct in quoting mr. lincoln's comment, but on the other hand, this is a political tactic as he prepared for the emancipation proclamation to keep the north together fighting the war. >> thank you. >> you're welcome. fores, a matter of style lincoln, of course, we know him for all who this is great writing in all of these precious phrases that have worked their way into the american or neck euler, so to speak -- into the american for neck euler, so to speak. yet wonderful stories that would

always have a point to them, sometimes a punchline or a joke and what-not. but when you described the research and the work he does before the third debate with oria, you used an interesting phrase could you said he makes a euclidean argument with the premise is built into the declaration of independence. could you tell us a little bit more about that? especially because the country, so dramatically, with the sophistication of what we know of him later. >> you just warm the cockles of my heart. [laughter] because it is clear to me that peoria, thecoln at book itself. peoriar, the debate at with theconfused several seven debates of 1858.

it is often remarked that this is the second of their debates, the first time being 1839, 1840 when they were rivals in springfield on economic policy. question -- the research believe itn did, i was almost as long as a harvard phd. he was two weeks ensconced in the state library in springfield, illinois, and the library was a good one, especially with respect to the founding, which was a mere 65 years, and he went through all of the documents tabulating who was opposed to the extension of slavery. great northwest ordinance, composed

substantially by thomas jefferson, prohibiting the extension of slavery into the northwest territory, the old northwest territory, territory between the ohio river and mississippi river. so it was in these documents that he convinced himself that -- something about which he had never done the homework, something about which he had never campaigned. that is to say the slavery issue. he convinced himself that the founders had intended slavery to be put in the course of ultimate extinction. that is the central port -- point of the great peoria speech. finally, great man with a great wouldfound an issue which carry him to the white house, into a terrible civil war, and to his assassination. >> next question is over here. in february of every year, i listen to both republicans and as arats claim mr. lincoln

supporter of their political party. today, wouldent mr. lincoln be a republican or a democrat? [laughter] >> yes. [laughter] [applause] it is a great question which is impossible for me to fathom in this wonderful, intellectual, and diverse group. i may, with all due respect, because a student has emerged and i think this is important, so we would like you to go next. it is i would like to say really nice being here. i really liked your speech. do we actually had to do a project on this question.

do you think that reconstruction brought us closer or further from our founding ideals? your question is a general one, so i will give you a sissy general answer -- i will give uccint general answer. many of the legislative acts passed airing reconstruction laid the groundwork to the civil rights movement of the 1960's and successfully. it established a foundation wards, thereer was a menaced -- tremendous strength from the precedent set during reconstruction. halfast year or year and a of lincoln's own administration, those that followed ending

primarily with the successes of general grant. very important amendments were .assed your 14th amendment the 13th amendment abolishing slavery. the 15th amendment extending the right to vote beyond the qualifications that existed before the war. so with every important stance, -- the reconstruction beginning in 1863 and extending through general grant's two terms laid the foundation for a much freer and equal social order, which was the first principle of mr. lincoln's campaign in 1860. >> thank you. [applause] >> we will come back to this student in a minute.

>> that student is went to the head of the class. [laughter] hi, in your opinion, who or what influenced abraham lincoln the most to just make such a change in our political environment? shall i repeat the question or would you like to get closer to the microphone question mark >> in your opinion, who influenced abraham lincoln the most? >> so you think of a person or of a series of events? >> yeah, series of events or something. >> in this particular case, i would answer as it were in the negative. it was senator stephen a douglas who mindlessly crammed through the house and senate the

kansas-nebraska act, opening up slavery to the extension of slavery even though it had been missourid by the compromise which was enacted as a successor to the northwest ordinance. would prohibit slavery in free territories or new territories of the united states. it was in the reaction to the gander was an initiative of senator douglas to overflow -- to overthrow the intention of the founders that galvanized mr. lincoln. remember, he was practicing law. a young man wrote a paper that he had practically given up all addict and he was practicing law from 1841 to 8054. came along senator douglas, kansas-nebraska act or the spread of slavery was once more on the run.

easily able to encompass all the territories of the united states as a result of this resident. follow did buy the drugs got decision, decision of the supreme court of the united followed by the dred scott decision. and then saying slavery is protected, galvanizing and -- 8057,n 1856 in going for the overthrow of the chief justice and his supreme court's decision, and returning the territories to the bases upon which the founders had established them. it enables me to say one thing that is really commented on by our historians, even our teachers. mr. lincoln was no revolutionary. what he was was a man dedicated to restoring the union on the

foundation, the original foundation, and the intention of the founders in the long run for the country. it should be said that restorations of a lost republic could also bel part of the revolution. and that is what happened. >> thank you. [applause] >> while some of the other students are coming down to the microphone and follow their brave leaders. we have heard a little bit about how lincoln was a student of history and he was a week before he was a republican. i'm sure that he is aware of the lessons of tyler and fillmore. i am wondering if they consider those lessons in agreeing to have johnson as his running mate on the union ticket. is there any indication that he thought about his own mortality?

>> i don't know any of the evidence or document that would link those presidencies to mr. lincoln's decision to replace his incumbent with andrew johnson. i do know that he thought it was a good decision. ,ere, he had a tendency governor who was prounion, even in a state which had seceded from the union. me that always struck perhaps it should not have been to believereason that that was the cause of lincoln's change of mind. >> i think we have reached a new height.

>> was the kansas-nebraska act returnedst change that lincoln to politics? this was the biggest event not only to change lincoln's location, to going back to politics but i would say that it was probably the most inflammatory legislation ever passed by the congress of the u.s. recent congresses to the contrary notwithstanding. question.a bull's-eye one can almost see the great republic turning on a hinge with the kansas nebraska act. lincolne rise to mr. and he was known only in a county in central illinois. most illinois was the most

the north. states of it cause lincoln in a state which was primarily a democrat sympathetic to slavery states to win as a week. a very bold move. this unearthed not only senator douglas's replacement in 1860 but it changed the destiny of the country. that they are very speculative. it is entirely plausible that there would have been no civil war and there would have been a gradual move towards the ultimate distinction of slavery. >> on this site. >> i have two questions, in

regards to frederick douglas, this lincoln make a mistake by wanting to settle the african slaves in liberia? can you comment about the relationship between president , and allwilliam seward of his enemies that end up becoming members of his cabinets. >> the question about his rivals? described the situation between seward and baby chase and others in general. >> i can recommend for or five biographies for you. >> dolores kearns goodwin, the team of rivals. liberia andence to the settlement of just a handful of slaves there, so to speak. a very small: the of slaves, was recolonization of

slaves in america, the society which began i believe in 1824. very wise and distinguished men as their sponsors, senator henry clay being one of the most important. week party of that time, there was substantial contingent. talking in the generation before the civil war. there was a substantial contingent that believed that were so anti-black, a large fraction playing racist that there was no future for the black man and black women, black culture in america. they thought they were doing a good thing in general. was, unsympathetic as

we may be to it, that it was important to separate these two races so that each can live its own life according to its own cultural standards and its own development. ,t was sort of an amtrak ideal it was not a set of principles or political thinking and policies that were very realistic. definitely that aspect. there was an attempt to execute that plan. all were volunteers. that is not the only place where the lacks volunteered to go to establish a new colony, but it -- about 36 years before mr. lincoln became president. >> about seward and his rivals. click seward and mr. lincoln's

rivals. -- lincoln'sand mr. rivals. he was a senator, a senior senator. he was something of what you might call an elitist today. he was extremely well educated and very high on his own intellectual powers and he had a big political machine-in new york. he was the preferred candidate for the presidency and there is no reason why on the face of it, looking at the evidence and then. if we don't think like historians with the and if it of perfect hindsight, there is the reason why he should not have expected to be president. when lincoln beat him in the nomination in the third ballot in chicago in 1860, he was stunned. a part decided, he being of the eastern elite and extremely well educated and a lawyer and a senator and

wellborn, he would be the prime minister in lincoln's cabinet. well, as we say, mr. wink and could be taciturn and he had his ego under control, but seward found out very quickly in the is --t sumpter question sumpter crisis that lincoln was his man. aase is the exemplar of politician who does not have his ego under control. exceptedd, mr. lincoln -- in order to get his way, at .he very exact moment he was elevating him to the supreme court.

anybody can be the chief justice. >> thank you very much. keyhole douglas as a promotion of the kansas nebraska -- what was the motivation behind the support? -- do you hold douglas as promotion ?f the kansas nebraska act what was this time mary motivation behind the support? not a very good description in the way that a clever politician did this. he was a chairman on the the mostes which was important committee.

it was his duty to provide legislation for the territories be provided could for in the constitution. it was provided for by law. douglas decided that that the most accommodating way to go about this was to repeal the missouri compromise which in theted slavery kansas-nebraska territory in southernsatisfy the slave states he dominated his very own democratic party and his future possibilities as to let all oflet the people in kansas, nebraska and any future territories decide for themselves whether each person or each territory where each slave to be made from should choose slavery

or no. to sum it up too quickly, there was to the north. ,here was a tremendous desire you might even call it a lust for the land. then a great desire to if land in the territory slavery was used in the kansas territory or the southwestern territories which had been yielded to us by mexico during or after the mexican war. all of these territories would planters whonded

had the capital and the banking and support to settle them and make it very difficult for free farmers to go and and settle and develop the farms. of the where the phrase republican party came for -- from. free soil, free men, free labor. word, mr. douglas had chosen to overthrow the tendency of the congress of the u.s. to put slavery in the course of ultimate extinction. indeed, he reversed the process. free northerners who wanted land for their families and their and a lot of them are not

civil rights advocates. they had to agree for the position of the black man but they did not want the competition of plantation slavery in the territories. i hope that gets partway added. for a vehiclere to the presidency. you might say a sympathetic effort to draw americans from different parts of the country into a nondecision, what he called popular sovereignty. every man, every state could choose for themselves whether or not to own a slave. >> thank you very much. what it limited his way. i started reading about article six of the northwest ordinances and discovered nathan dave and his authorship of that.

know that lincoln credits thomas jefferson. is there any evidence that he actually was aware of nathan dane's authorship. >> i cannot say. that is a worthy question. the new york historical society library is one of the 10 great research libraries for historians in america. when i was youngster teaching at yale, i came down here knowing that this would impress my tutor that i had done the new york society library. >> i think we have three students. >> i was wondering how his religion influenced his opinion and actions toward slavery. >> how his what? >> is religion.

>> his religious biography is not unlike many of us here, he started out as a young man in new salem, illinois at the age of 21. he knew everything. he knew everything and he knew which was someas enlightened young man who had been reading atheist detracts was a mentor for some skepticism. that is the way he began as an adult. gradually, he married and started going to church. a member of the presbyterian church to which his wife went. he became very good friends with several ministers in springfield . in those days, this is a town of

about 25 hundred people. you could find 15 or 20 churches in a little town in the u.s.. indeed, a little town where we have a farm in central pennsylvania. i think there are 400 residences and six churches. thatwas it and -- the way america was then. a began to take religion as philosophical matter more seriously. as i say, he never joined a church. be aver of out himself to doctrinal christian. were not many roman catholics around. found aever would have face in the doctrinal faith.

as you know from the second inaugural, he implores the .ivinity there in one speech he is answering on why he expects saidch from so many and he as the savior said, bd perfect as your father in heaven is perfect all stop this was a man who knew the bible. remember, he lived in the wilderness for his first 18 years. had a copy of the king james bible. if i had to guess, he read that king james bible backward and forward, especially the old testament as well as the new

testament. and he had it virtually memorize, as you look at the 10 volume canon of his collective works, you will find that throughout it he shows a real mastery of orthodox biblical christianity. this was a book which he had in his own hands which he could memorize. that is one of the reasons why he writes so beautifully. if you ever read the king james bible or let's say the dewey rand bible of the catholic church, you will find cadences and rhythms not unlike the cadences of his great speech. i would say in general he was religious. he was not a doctrinal christian belonging to a church. but, over and over again during the presidency, he invoked the role of the divinity and the bible itself. , he was almost there. >> thank you.

>> i hope that we can squeeze in these last few questions here. >> i was wondering because i know that he had planned for reconstruction but i was wondering if you think he would be happy with the way reconstruction turned out in the hands of other presidents? >> that is a great question. do i presume that you are implying maybe reconstruction didn't turn out very well and mr. lincoln himself might've been unhappy or is that a completely neutral question? >> what? >> that is too perfect. for.et me in you really put in my place. well done.

i will soon have 13 grandchildren to do the same thing. he would have been opposed to everything that he did before during his short. of reconstruction, he would have sent the troops into stop. i believe he would have under federal law, he would have pounded down to those who were committing crimes and seem to that they were imprisoned. speaking, ierally

think that we can infer from what he actually did in reconstruction that he had a few we can make much more progress towards racial reconciliation then in fact turned out in reconstruction. still, i would say that the reconstruction amendment to the constitution of the u.s. and the varied and profound civil rights legislation which was not implemented but nevertheless passed in law did set the foundation. for a robust civil rights movement. >> thank you. >> we have just one more question. >> hi. is, if abraham lincoln was here today what hasmplishment that america

done, that you think you would be the most proud of? two things. briefly. remember, abraham lincoln wanted the union to be reunited. he wanted to have a continental economy, he advocated the growth of american industry and employment. he wanted america to be good and powerful. anyone was to be the lion lying down with the lamb, he wanted to be that lion. so that in the victory that he achieved in the civil war, it made of america a continental economy. and it made it a fast-growing unknown economy to which people from all over the world with the skills and the desire to work would come. successful, if

the confederates had won that there could have been a slave-based nation and a free nation sharing the same continent. .s neighbors secondly, it would never have been the great continental economic integrated economy that is became. what would have been those consequences? german reichrial in 1940 reached for dominance of europe, it was america which came in in 1917 and saved europe. that could only have been done in ation powerful, united conical economy which could provide the troops and the resources, but even more theificantly, the role of united states in the second world war would have been unthinkable. with half the country

slave-based and half the country so-called free states. the united states provided the enormous leverage that was necessary which could only have been provided by great continental power with the huge population of the free state a freeed to maintaining europe. that is a very practical consideration on what mr. lincoln achieved by reuniting integratedbehind an economy. think he clearly would have thought that the civil rights movement and the success that americans have had in attempting, we are still at work doing it, in attempting to make this a free and equal social order, he certainly would have made that. if you're not free, you are not course,domination, of civil rights cannot be very meaningful.

but, if you can maintain your independence and you can support indispensable you and desire freedom, then you can also fight and battle at home. about which i think we have been substantially successful. >> thank you. >> you are watching american history tv, all weekend, every weekend. >> former u.s. senate baker died on thursday at the age of 88. in this 2007 interview, he reflected on his political career as part of an oral history project conducted by the robert j dole institute of politics at the university of kansas.