all the factories that make aidid agency and iphone, they're all sort of aunts and uncles that are net, woulded together that run these factories. and you can buy anything and you can talk to anyone and get anything done. every single kid whose parents have enough money, a successful restaurant or something, they make a cell phone. the cell phone design. you go down to the stalls, there's hundreds of cell foreign designs, like hello kitty and cars. kids in palo alto make websites. they don't sit there in the design room and design it. they sit there on the manufacturing floor and design on the manufacturing equipment. what happens is, every week they come up with another model. they go downstairs, sell it at the stalls, compare it with each other and go back this they

don't call it this, this is ab testing and they make hardware like we make software. and what's also fascinating about it is, there's like this $12 retail price with 5 megabytes of ram, mp3 player, blu tooth. everything, the only way you could make that -- it's made by someone who stands in front of a manufacturing blind all day long. figuring out, how can i get this. >> the rest of academia is public or perish. we are demo or die. your demo only has to work once. i changed it recently to deploy or die. you have to actually take the stuff and send it out into the real world.

in the old days because the costs of doing in addition was so high. we would inspire these large companies to create like a mind storm or guitar hero or the kindle. we wouldn't actually manufacture the stuff ourselves. now, i realize that we don't have to sit there with the prototype that we can only make one of. we request make 100,000 of them, and let people play with them and just go and do stuff. and it's -- it's already been true with websites. it's not true with hardware. i'm trying to get some kids from sh shenzhen to come to the lab. i think apple has gone -- has cracked down on a lot of the pirates. and a lot of these kids end up in jail because their side business is making fake iphones or iphones that when you swipe, it turns into an android.

but they don't realize that they are actually extremely far ahead of the rest of the world. i want to bring that in to get them working on it. >> some of the things -- i mean, obviously, there's a bunch of stuff from the hardware/software combination i've been looking at. it's been wear ans, which i thi think, one of the other things, we've only begun to see a fringe of it is special hardware designs. one of the things on the bit coin side. and this is public so i can't say any more information about it. as a hardware specific, in order to touch this, and i think we're going to see a lot more of that in various ways. it's one of the reasons why the principles of open source

applied the software now also becomes applied to hardware and how that innovation loop works. once you can begin doing ab testing. you launch and try it and do it again. i think that's one of the things that i think when we get added in the valley. i'm not positive, it's very close to software, tendses to be where most of the gravity is. but hardware and biology touch that. >> you have a software view of the world taking on hardware is going to be ultimately successful. >> i think software is still key. that's more or less the way we look at this. we divide it into the practice of consumer enterprise software,

and we'll do anything where software is the key part of it. as long as software is the key element of it, that's the moore's law and the revolution cycle similar things in terms of biology. you tauched on something i think might be fun what is this will m.i.t. bitcoin thing? >> the m.i.t. bitcoin thing is a student. some students made the bitcoin club, they went out and raised $500,000 the last time i checked from philanthropists and they're going to give $100 to every student in the club to do whatever they want. the idea, though is -- to me, bitcoin is a hack on

bookkeeping, really. it's taking a ledger based bookkeeping system and making it feasible for the first time in this current form. it's clever, but it's basically converting a conveyor based cash into a leather system. the only reason i'm obsessed with this. you know my friend jay vetti. he's an indian genius. he was the ceo of oceanside bank. he was able to cut the cost of the banks in 18 months by completely redoing all of the systems. the only reason he was able to do that is he's an accounting genius and computer science genius. he told my story, he was in school in india and he was a whiz, so he didn't study for his

accounting class. it was the first class where he didn't -- he failed or didn't do well. and then he realized you can't underestimate accounting. everybody thinks it's boring, but it's actually really hard. he obsessed about accounting. he would talk to me about bookkeeping. and the fact that no one else learns out that much in that space, it's kept the fine services business so far behind. to me, bitcoin. >> no one hacks them that way. >> bitcoin is interesting for a lot of reasons. from m.i.t.'s perspective, it's driving a lot of smart people to think about basic bookkeeping problems, which i think is going

to be the fundamental change in atom ago units. everyone's like let's assume standard accounting practices what can we hack. they went into hacking a system on top of something that was already old. let's assume -- most of the computer chip guys don't know the physics and the phenomenon behind the memories they work on any more. very few companies can go in and open the black box. some of them do, but there are very few accounting and book keeping is kind of like the material science of money that a lot of smart people hadn't been focused on. to me, having a lot of random mit undergrads messing around is going to generate -- it's hard to think of a world built up of

bits instead of atoms. >> would this be an alternative way of stating what you just said? essentially a bit coin is done to reinvent the platform leather and that leather can be innovated on, extended, apps can be built on it, et cetera. and that accessibility allows geeks, designers, engineers to begin hacking. and that opens up innovation or is there something else? >> there's a couple different layers, there's bit coin itself. internet did it in its own sort of way. it's also kind of focusing a lot of smart. it's like the brain, when we were growing up, no one studied the brain. it was one of the most underfunded things ever, considering how important it was. considering how important it is for us, no one really spent money on funding it, now it's

the thing obama's talking about. when you have a lot of smart people geeking out on something, it creates a critical mass. smart people want to hang out with smart people. nothing against accountants but the image of an accounting firm is not the image where you're like the physics math person is going to want to go. at m.i.t. there are the people who do quantum accounting -- the fringe people who are really into advanced accounting. the general undergrad student -- >> i'm not sure i know what quantum accounting is, but okay. >> the general undergrad. >> it's not there until you measure it? >> i guess the thing is having a volume of -- also, a lot of innovation comes out of trying a lot of things, right? to me, that bit coin is bringing

attention to an area that's sorely needed a lot of attention. i think a lot of the stuff that's screwed up, whether you're talking about network security or the systems. i'm on the audit committee of the new york times. which is gives us a view into how viewable our financial system is. when people start figures, why don't we just do this, do that? >> i woulded one thing that i think is important that add, which is, part of the notion, if you can create an effectively network distributed integral trust system, where the trust resides in the network, and all the networks not just one node, one node of authority, that allows all kinds of new innovations. leather is absolutely one of the important things. there's various things. bit coin is making me think about how dns should work.

there's a bunch of potential unlockings by having the network be the authority. >> yeah, and i think that's right, and i think a lot of us have thought about -- i was on the ikan board, we thought a lot about dns and security and trust. it lights a fire under, when there's more money involved. bitcoin is fanning a lot of really important planes that need to be penned. >> let's shift to -- in a few minutes, by the way, i'll be asking questions in the audience as well. and the questions can be anything that the whole group would be interested in. the -- one of the things, the means that go around silicon valley frequently, we disrupt

industries. one of the best disruptions i work with. you place $1. and it becomes a platform. that's part of the reason why the disruptive cycle creative destruction and it's important. obviously people have been kicking around a lot of stuff. you have sarah here media. m.i.t.x. there's been a lot of thinking about what the future of the university is going to be. what are your -- at least partial perspectives on that? the media lab and other -- >> so i -- there's a -- there's a future of education, which is a broader thing in which the future of the university is part of. and i think. it ties to your book as well. i don't think we're preparing

people to be fully functional. just because -- and i think you can blame it all the way. you can blame it on carnegie, but blame it on the companies that are hiring people. they have degrees or grades. that drives a testing culture to make sure that people meet the requirements for the degree. the tests are usually about you as an individual. so it's not that much about collaboration. it's literally tests of skills and knowledge. which is great for factory. or if you're stuck on top of a mountain with a number two pencil and a mobile phone. in most cases you're going to have a moesch i'll phone, your value to society is going to be, how can you pull the people and the knowledge that you need when you need it. and then turn it into something valuable. it's this ability to produce, think, ask questions. and those are not easy to assess. but even in the media, where

it's almost the opposite of that, when i do a tenure case, or i'm hiring a faculty member. it's -- but this paper has multiple arthurs. how do we know it was this person's contribution? is there a single paper that this person is excited? what did this person do by themselves? it's always by themselves, it's not about networking. it obviously is sort of networking, but it's networking in a one dimensional way. to me preparing people for assuming that they're networked and assuming that skills and knowledge are less important than ability to gain those skills and the knowledge when you need them, rather than -- to me, university feels like, okay, have you to memorize the encyclopedia, before you're allowed to go out and do anything is the opposite. that shift away from packing knowledge in your brain into being creative, and i think it

makes sense. because in a society where machines were not -- machines and computers are not yet strong enough to do the representative testing you need to do, that's a revolution, you wanted reliable similar standardized human beings as units of work. today, when robots and computers are doing everything that is repeat agent or they can do, you don't want computers that act like robots and human beings. which is sort of what a lot of universities try to create. i think that there's -- there's a bunch of stuff on how -- >> do you have any suggestions on what the mods are? most of the dialogue i see happen within the university system is kind of like moot sufficient. of course they're not sufficient, their one innovation along the path of how do we change the outcomes in cost and

results? >> i think the -- i think mods are a better knowledge and skill delivery system. but knowledge and skill delivery is one thing i think we need to not do as much of. but they will argue that if you make that part more efficient, you have more time for the other stuff, so the word that is often used is called the flip classroom, instead of sitting with butts in your seat watching a lecture, you watch a lecture at home. that sort of makes sense, although i would kind of argue, having said that, you're putting all your money and energy in building the knowledge delivery system, we don't sit around talking about -- well, now that we have the time in the class, what do we do, and how do we make that more effective, we are doing more peer learning online, we did this thing called creative learning, we're not

going to teach you anything, you're going to teach yourselves. we'll have a guided conversation. and i think 25,000 people showed up, 10,000 stayed in. we didn't give any degrees, any points, halfway through the community started making their own software, to me, that's much more interesting. when you look at open sourced software, it's peer learning. people teach each other, and everybody knows you learn more when you're teaching. this idea of a network system -- 7 billion teachers is a much more interesting goal than one person teaching 7 billion people. i think there's a role for them, i think that the social behavior of learning and teaching is really important, because i still think that -- especially in the developing world, everyone wants that degree to get that job. and it all goes back to jobs. and you will spend a lot of

money when you get a degree. when you're degree driven, you're focusing all your time on getting out of school, that's the whole point to get out of here. what about -- the phc students which are the ones we get for four years. always imagine i may take your degree away when you're leaving, and then i want you to be able to look back and say, it was still worth it and to think of the degree as a scaffolding for you having an amazing time and learning a lot of stuff. otherwise, i don't want you here, i want people here who don't want to leave. >> so i think we'll shift to questions now, i still have a stack -- all i'm supposes to do is say next question, and then the folks here will tell me who the -- you're selecting or am i selecting. >> we have one over here.

>> thank you for that presentation on the start-up of you. i had the pleasure of sitting with my niece who's in tenth grade, telling her all about it, and telling her how she should figure life out with those slides. we got up to slide 100 and something and she got bored. but it was worth it. we don't put bitcoin or trust. we have all these issues that are almost trans national at this point, and as we've seen with google as well. the regulator environment in you came out of left field, we have no idea. how is an entrepreneur or a community of entrepreneurs going to fix these trans national issues. they do have a cause for concern? any thoughts on the bitcoin

angle, from both of you? >> happy to. one of the things that's wonderous and complicating and hopefully not terrible about being more and more on a network page. which i refer to as the knelt work gets inertia and life of its own, innovations and changes and things can happen that aren't under a classic nation state control, bitcoin is precisely one of those things, if you look at the vast majority of -- like one of the ways that countries have historically worked is the banking system is tightly regulated by the country and there's specific cross border regulatory infrastructure that causes it very difficult to drive innovation, that goes all the way back to paypal and how

joe and i met. so part of the question will be, for example, i think that -- it's going to be very difficult for government folks to figure out how should modern treaties be expressed? should they be expressed in code? what are the kind of principles in that is one of the reasons joe and i -- he's on the foundation board, i'm on the corporation board of mozilla. in terms of guidance for entrepreneurs, it's a question to say, understand that part of this technology is changing the world, there will be friction points with regulation, with government, and you have to have that as part of your thinking about what your start-up plan is going to be what you're going to be doing what i do personally

there, i look at whether it's bitcoin in financial services or bnb and zoning regulation. i go, okay, what should the mature design of the ecosystem be why is that better nor all the individuals and society? and then how do you step in the way to do that, and recognizing there will be a number ofreconc changing the system as that happens. well, it's better for a bunch of the individuals because people can then kind of sublet rooms or apartments in ways that offer unique experiences, create income for themselves. that kind of income creation for our region, for service, individuals, and then also for travelers, they get a unique kind of experience. it's valuable for both in terms of how it plays. and that's the kind of thing. there's regulatory issues, and

other countries that -- the trans national -- this could be a subject of an entire hour of talking. i'll stop there. >> the only thing i would say is, i'm a little disappointed by the lack of creativity in institution hacking by people who should be more innovative, i think partially it's because silicon valley exists in a slight bubble because they were able to ignore a lot of institutions by being out here. on the east coast you see a lot of interesting hackers who have hacked their way into a funny situation in government, in the military, in large institutions, and you see a lot of nonprofits who are very creative at figuring out whether it's the overthrow of governments to doing something creative. you see google hiring the exact same lobbyists that at&t highers. i realize they don't have time

to be innovative in that space. i wish there was more energy. you don't make money being a regulatory hacker. you make a lot of money hacking companies. one of those things that maybe this is a regional collaboration that we do. but for a lot of kids at the media lab to spend their whole life to figure out disruptive ways to do regulatory changes. google does talk to us about that stuff, but i think that's -- we should do more of that. >> next question? >> good evening. >> i was very exciting by the conversation about the university future, and how you need to bring the element of --

social element of cooperation into that -- and it reminded me of this conversation i had with one of the professors at stan form in the department of education that we were talking, what is really needs is teach people how to connect the dots and how to synthesize information coming at them and picking up the writing and connecting the dots. one thing that was very interesting was, i remembered the leadership class i took 30 years ago at hp, they gave us different information to five of us without us knowing it, and said come up with an answer, and we were fighting with an answer until one of us finally said, let me see your information that you have. and they were trying to teach us how to communicate. my question is, how do we test that ability of people who can communicate, connect the dots and get that.

since my conversation about six months ago with this university professor, i've really been struggling, how do we define -- we say forget the way of testing in the past. you memorize something as you sit on top of a mountain with a pencil and try to answer it. my proposal would allow people to bring their laptops, their friends, if they can con somebody. five of their friends to sit there -- >> this is the great question. i'm working on an essay on network literacy in terms of how to think about an example as you go through different phases of the information age, different kinds of literacy important search literacy, and network literacy is one of the points of literacy that's becoming everything from a literacy from

how do you search networks and how do you network within people. a test for that -- i'm not sure i have a good answer. do you have a good answer? >> lincoln sort of version of this is you -- your presences are -- a test it dependses where you are in your career. you're not going to do it with a 10-year-old. if you're an adult, the network you created shows your taste and aptitude. i think there's an interesting article from february in the new york times by a -- a great number by the way. it was a google hr person saying, grade point average seems to have no statistically relevant -- it's not statistically relevant in how well the person does, now some

teams have 14% college dropouts, which is a departure from their gpa stanford driven hiring. i don't think they figured out how to change it. but they have data that shows just focusing on gpa isn't right. everyone's struggling with this estimate. there's a company that does do assessments, and the head of assessments was at the 3450ed ya lab, she came back and said i already found eight people i want to letter. how did you decide to hire them? did you give them a test? >> no, i talked to them, i knew right away they would fit perfectly. her whole job was trying to quantify the assessment system, the hardest part is going to be how do you scale it. if you come to the media lab, we have gone through hundreds of

applicants and work on them, so your return is pretty high in terms of talking to kids. if you get a million applications, how do you sort through the first bunch. there was an ibm study. who the assessed interviews, and then how well the person did later? and the more senior and sort of so-calledwise, looking at different things, the more senior the interviewer, the more likely the person being hired had that aptitude and people tended not to want to hire people who were more senior than themselves. the interview process has a lot of human nature built in, the harder part is how do you do that, google talks about we ask these kinds of questions and it's a tricky way of trying to figure out whether someone's a thinker but they still have to

filt filter. >> next question? >> joey. i guess in the world where there's so many more things than there are people now, and our identity is becoming sort of a function of linkedin and a variety of other things. do you think we're going to have our own personal network we take with us to somebody else's house or to work or a hotel? what do you think of this whole concept of taking your network with you, and having some sort of security and privacy and identity around that? >> just a refinement, do you mean network as in people or network as, in we'll be wearable in cyber nettics? >> it's more your identity. for example, in our house, we have one ssid, which most people have. i think we're going to have to have more than that. we're going to have guests and finances and health and all that. as we move around we'll be a

function of this network identity. there must be some thought around iot and identity going on, right? >> you want to start? >> sure. so -- i think this is the problem. i think talking about trust networks, identity within trust networks, what sorts of identities and identifiers are necessary to complete the right transactions. i think in the world of big data, the idea of like -- for instance, you know, if i'm going to a library, there's no aren't guard at the library has to know my name and where i live, they just need to know that this person's face links with a membership to the library, and should be allowed access. so there's a sort of fundamental thing, which is, i think there should be a minimum amount of identity necessary to complete any particular transaction is what you should be forced to reveal. and i think that that -- the

architecture of identity is going to have to change to be focused more on what is necessary to complete this loop of trust in order for something to happen. and i -- and that's going to change eventually, i think the market's going to demand it. just like spam and security and everything else. it will only change. we all know, private enhancement technology is something i've been working on since the internet started. nobody will buy it, because nobody wants it. it's like spam, it has to get really painful before someone says we won't use this any more. spam has destroyed it. the company said, okay, we'll fix it, and they fixed it, i think with a lot of the identity stuff, what's going to happen is, people are going to start getting hurt. they're going to get identities, it's going to get worse before it gets better. the before it gets better version has a lot of control.

transparency of those who use your information. you're going to get it collected anyway, to me, the worst thing in the world that stresses me out is what is the model that we have about me. right now, i can't get tsa pre. i went through every network i could find until i found someone important enough to tell me, the lawful permanent resident database, there's a glitch in the connection with the tsa pre database, and that's why you're not getting it. stop trying to fix it. then my wife got it this morning, so go figure. to me, i don't want to end up on a no fly list where they may have information that's wrong about me. the ability to go in and change that -- >> the other two things to add is the barreltive to what's the amount of publicity about my identity that provides valuable services to me.

>> think about the google rumor? >> which one. >> the one in europe that made it, that's saying that google -- >> the forget rule something. >> yeah. >> i think generally speaking. i think that's a good thing especially as it applies to companies i think that one of the nuances is so for example, you have to look in the ecosystem, unintended consequences. people trying to hack financial systems and processors, actually one of the things -- you want to remember information -- there's always principles of balance, in terms of how do you instruct it. one of the things that happens is, frequently when you frame privacy things, we're going to take this data, do something, you don't know about it, that's terrible. we're going to provide this service that you really like. this is a little bit of the

facebook thing. your friends are going to upload pictures, other friends are going to tag them. show them to all your friends, what do you think about that? >> it sounds a little scary to me. and then everyone uses facebook. oh, this constructs a live stream of moments that matter about in terms of -- and then the system self-regulates. the bar shifts is one thing. on that, and then the other thing is, it's a lot more -- the other issue on identity, there's a lot of things where group patterns and identity will actually seriously help the overall efficiency. genetic codesing and these sorts of things to traffic patterns and how do we sort out individual rights versus collective rights there, is seriously interesting. to give you an example. one of the things -- when joey and i were driving here we were

talking about how self-driving cars will change all kinds of things. one of the questions joey put to me which i'm thinking about. if your car knew that by doing this and driving this way would kill you, but would save two other lives, what should the car do? i was like, oh, complicated question, but those are the kinds of questions we're going to get into. >> i think the bioengineering is going to -- >> one protip, according to george church, bioengineering is dropping a price at six times more than many of the areas, we have personal combine sequencing will be like in a couple years. and there's this new gene modifying you can edit. the bioethical conversation. >> and he's also starting to

research personal biospheres, because he feels it's a real risk. >> i come from the world of digital manufacturing. i'm interesting to your advice for those that are bringing innovation into industries where you're going to have a serious restructure of skills sets, for people who are hesitant toward change. >> i think one of the -- there's a pair of m.i.t. professors who also worry about this topic, and their general worry is, with the changing disruption, you know, how do you have the right kind of ability for the labor force to retool and stay employed. i think the broad level answer to this is taking the same kind

of techniques for transforming how ongoing education goes. how an ability to kind of do continuous learning throughout your career, not to have this old industrial model, it's like, i had the time where i was a student, now i'm in the field. no, no, you have to be learning every year, that has to be an ongoing pattern. it's kind of all how we're -- all modern careers, especially professional careers are coming to, that's one of the reasons why the ongoing education and constant retooling is important. i think we have to figure out how to deploy these technologies. i don't know if there's anything you would add to that. >> it is going to be harder for the more senior people who don't want to put the investment into retooling. for the young kids -- for a lot

of the less advantaged neighborhoods, learning to code provides a tremendous opportunity. and it's a market failure, where we just don't have enough coders, and learning to code is actually possible. i mean, it's -- it turns out it's not that hard. you can also -- again with peer learning, there's a division model. if you teach people how to do peer programming, you can teach people with less skills. you don't need more and more infrastructure to do that. the workshops they started to do have been extremely successful. it's not the intuitive thing to do, it's the obvious thing when you look at the numbers. that's a pretty successful initiative.

>> karl marx suggested it would be the withering way. however what you're talking about tends to think that institutions aren't going to keep up, we talked a little bit about that with the university and so forth. what do you think can happen to enable them to keep up. what will enable us when we have today trying to take -- the government trying to take on the chinese and maybe there might be a little bit of back and forth on that, what do you think will get us beyond or transcend some of those issues that can keep up with what we're doing? >> joshua, who is the managing director -- age of the unthinkable. >> he's -- you know, his background is in physics, santa fe institute complexity, he's at the helm of thinking about international relations, he's one of the key experts on china.

he's doing like ultimatum gang theory -- the problem is states manship is in the dark ages. what it is, it's happening in a world of extreme complexity. i spend a lot of time in the middle east, it's so complex that you can't parse it in any -- it's -- i mean, it doesn't solve. it's like a -- in hyperspace, it's not in space. i think what needs to happen is, just like every other industry that had physicists and people who understand math jump in and try to model things in a different way. i think the military and the international relations needs that, the problem is, there isn't a strong flow of people into that sector because of the way that students are set up. to your point, i think about -- when i think about institutions, i think about programs like code for america and others, at the municipal level you can see trickling in, it's how do you do

impact. nonprofits and ngo's can help. i two see a lot of physics nerds getting interested in things like international relations. getting interested in trying to solve syria. modelling those as physics problems rather than text. i think people take -- i think part of it will be coming up with the right models and having enough senior administration that can parse it. and i think right now -- and we see this failure already historically in cyber security, where the senior people just don't use computers, so they don't understand kind of emotionally or viscerally what's going on. the fact that a bunch of teenagers could actually cause a lot of havoc and don't because they don't want to kill their host. that's the power dynamic. you get used to it, you don't have control.

>> a few things to add into that, one is an idea that is interesting. you need to have more engineers or hackers or geeks, nerds as actors within these institutions. and so typically one of the problems is the way that a programmer is thought of in very old school institutions, which includes governments, i will write out exactly what to do, and then you go do it. you have to figure out how to treat these things. more organic systems, you have to figure out how to hack them, how to possibly create new things. that was the throwaway comment i made earlier about, well, what happens if you can write trees in code. should trees be in code? if people want something, to funnelly think about when

bitcoin is an international leather, one of the things you can do in a cyber treaty, you can articulate financial penalties in bit coin that would automatically be triggered. if i did something, bit coin would be transferred as opposed to the way the system works today. i'm not going to pay it. there's all kinds of interesting things about hacking. the second thing is, is that it's i think extremely important, is one of the reasons why level of organizations like the churchill club and so on, they actually have the dialogue to understand where the future's going, and part of -- one of the things i've told a number of u.s. politicians is, it's stunning to me how many -- the ratio of foreign politicians i host here in silicon valley relative to domestic ones. but it's like, guys, come out and talk. it will really matters.

and -- the chancellor of the czech of the u.k. was the shadow chancellor at the time. george ozbourne spent a week out here trying to figure out what was going on so he knew how to help the u.k. that's a great thing. that would be another partial answer. >> i think you guys are both great. i've got a comment for mr. ito. putting something up and backing in, trying to find a business article for that. richard branson just wrote an article on linkedin about that. does anyone talk about hacking the business model. in terms of the money we spent without real business models going-forward? >> i don't think that not

focusing on revenue is not having a business model. i think the idea that distribution and scale have tremendous business value and are the harder part of the problem, once you have distribution and scale, it's easier to get meetings and generate cash. the business model which is roughly translated by some people into the wrong thing, which is cashflow, it's a shortsighted focus, so to me, i don't think it's that these companies like twitter and others aren't focusing on the business model. it is a business model to focus on. i think at the media lab we tend not to focus -- we focus on impact. we want to hit the real worlds a lot of our stuff is answers looking for questions, because sometimes you'll discover stuff that wouldn't normally be

allowed to be searched for if your focus was on something with utility from the beginning we're even more sort of discovery and search oriented than the silicon valley. you want to talk a little bit about these models. >> the highlight, business model hacking is better served on the business side than the universities side. we have a much better understanding of how these ecosystems come together than almost anyone in advanced places or unique places. we have a much better sense of that. i do think that everything you said is right, frequently when things happen -- sometimes different other areas, but consumer, that's a harder problem than the business model problem. that being said, one of the things that's interesting is frequently what happens is, people get to scale for consumer internet, and then they forget

there's additional business model innovation to do. that's the thing that made google a powerhouse. it wasn't just that we have x page views, we should have a business model. you're seeing similar things happening with news feeds sponsored update innovations. which are kind of new iterations of the product. i think what google is going with true view is interesting. it's to think about business model innovations and hacking. it's an important part of the entrepreneurial process. for consumer earn vestments, it's irrelevant. when an entrepreneur comes to me and says, what should i focus on first? focus on distribution. do think about hacking the business model later, and do have some thought to it, but get to it after the distribution model. >> the place we do get to hack a little bit is. there's a certain kind of scale that you need to be at before you can hack a business model in

a certain way. you have to have at least one user. >> i think we have 80 companies telling us our deepest darkest secrets about where they're going to die. we get to say, what about this, what about that? >> that you can't do if you're just a start of the early, early phase. >> yeah, so that's -- i think this is the last question. so you heard a moment ago that you can't make money from hacking solutions. they're trying to hack at regulatory anomalies, friction, that kind of thing.

what i've really noticed, coming from east to west is that people don't care. they don't care about things that are outside of their bubble. they don't care about hunger, human rights. that's not as true in the east. you guys are uniquely positioned to talk about social innovation in the bay area and how to do that. so how do you burst the bubble and get people in the bay hacking sort of big social problem that is are global in nature? >> let me shift your question slightly, although i won't answer the full thing. squl i'm on board a bunch of non-profits. i've had paul farmer here several times. what i realize in terms of the valley's focus, the valley is very much a taku about technology on entrepreneurship. that's a japanese word for, kind of, like, obsessive geek. what i've found is a way to get resonance on hunger or education

there's some interest in because of talent or whatever. international relations is to put it so make it somewhat navigable by that skill set. how do those skill sets apply to this? and then they start getting very interested in this. they don't go oh, i'm just trying to solve world hunger. i've got these tool that is are really interesting. and oh, here's how you apply them to this. if you go and say microfinance, oh that's interesting. that's the kind of pattern. >> i think that's right. i think there's some east coast, west coast bridging.

i think we fund a lot of start-ups that don't have a lot of fire pyre. you go out and realize your skills are going to completely change a city. it's kind of like the modern version of the peace corps. i think if we were to send some of these geeks out for just a year, take a break. go off and do something interesting. go to africa and come back, they may get the bug, you know. and i think that a wlot of it has to do with being in an environment where you're pretty safe. where you don't have to focus on the world news. i think it's a little bit about getting out more. >> yeah, geeks get out more. i think that's it. >> i want to thank you so much. you've been so generous with your time and your thoughts and

we really appreciate it, right? >> 40 years ago, the watergate scandal led to the only resignation of an american president throughout this month and early august. american history tv revisits 1974 and the final weeks of the nixon administration. this weekend, hear the supreme court oral argument, united states v. nixon as the prosecutor detects the oval office recordings. >> the president and how he reads the constitution, but he may also be wrong. and if he is wrong, who is there to tell him so? and if there's no one, then the president, of course, 1 free to pursue his course of erroneous interpretations.

what then becomes of our constitutional form of government. >> watergate, 40 years later. american history tv on c-span3. now, a panel discussion of some of top global figures of 2013. from the university of denver earlier this year. this is an hour. >> well, welcome back. this is our second afternoon session celebrating american foreign policy's top 100 thinkers here at the university of denver and the scoot of international studies.

i have to say that we said just a couple words about the universityover denver. yesterday, we celebrated our 150th anniversary, which is -- [ applause ] >> and i cannot think of a better way of starting out our next 150 years than this event. it is an array of folks discussing an array of topics that you will never -- you just don't find people with these skills able to talk to people like us. all of them are special. let me reintroduce our speakers. first, salva ishmael. she's the executive director of aware girls, a pakistan-based

ngo that she co-founded at the age of 15. that works to empower women through training and efficacy. and then we have michael ash. a professor of economics at the university of massachusetts, amhearst. he's one of our co-authors of the influential essay. does high public debt. in this essay, they point out errors in the widely cited economic study thereby

undermining the austerity programs 245 slash budgets and social spending around the world. last, but not least, we have steve elkins who used a technology called "lidor" to find out -- to find what they believe to be the lost city of blanco in hon durs. their use of this technology has transformed the field of archaeology and raised awareness of the importance of digitally preserving cultural heritage. >> the format for this will address the audience and then i will leave some time for audience members to ask one question each, and they must be questions. first, salva, let's turn to you. you founded your organization, aware girls, when you were 15

years old. i know what i was doing when i was 15 years old. if you think back what you were doing in the audience, it probably is not what you were doing. salva, can you give us some indication? what led you to do this at this early age? what was the context of this extraordinary thing that you did? >> well, i grew up in a culture where women were oppressed and the relationship between men and women were like master and slave relationship. women were more -- like, considered objects rather than human beings. women and girls are taught to be obedient. it's the start ooft family. and i also grew up in such a culture all around me facing an experience, certain oppressions by myself.

but i was born in a family. and i was having a father who was a teacher and human rights activist. so when i was a child, he used to bring us storybooks which taugt about general equality. he brought newsletters from different organizations. my father wanted all of us sisters to get education. so i had the support of the father and all of these things need to speak up gechbs the issues and to establish awareness at a very young age. >> when you did this at the beginning, were you speaking with other girls your age or were you immediately interag?