term investment in your and africa and the future we can build together and today i want to announce some next steps that i think are important. first, given the extraordinary demand for this fellows program we'll double it so that in two years we'll welcome 1,000 mandela washington fellows to the united states of america. [ applause ] so that's good news. second, we'll do even more to support young entrepreneurs with new grants to help you start a business or a nonprofit. and training thousands of aspiring entrepreneurs in smaller towns in rural areas and given the success for our annual global entrepreneurship summit i can announce that next year's summit will be hosted for the first time in sub-saharan africa. [ applause ] third, we're launching a whole new set of tools to empower young africans through our network, new online courses and mentoring, new ways to meet up and network across africa and

around the world. new training sessions and meetings with experts on how to launch start ups. and it all begins today and to get started all of you, all you have to do is go to y yali.state..gov. we're creating new leadership centers. we're joining with american universities, african institution and private sector partners like microsoft and mastercard foundation we want to thank two of them. they are helping to finance this. give microsoft and mastercard foundation a round of applause. [ applause ] starting next year young africans can come to these centers to access the latest technology and get training in management and entrepreneurship and we're starting in senegal,

ghana, south africa and kenya. [ applause ] and we aim to help tens of thousands of young africans access the skills and resources they need to put their ideas into action. so the point of all this is we believe in you. i believe in you. i believe in every one of you who are doing just extraordinary things. like this woman. she saw a close friend die during child birth. she helps train birth attendants and deliver kits with sterile slice and help save lives of countless mothers and babies. we want to thank her. we want her to save even more lives. or to give you another example, robert from uganda.

so there's robert. so, robert is deaf. but even though he can't hear he can see that the stigma and discrimination against people with disabilities must end. he's been their champion. he's standing up for the rights in schools and on the job. so thank you, robert. we want to be your partner in standing up for the universal rights of all people. i believe in mom. [ applause ] all right. so, in senegal she's taking a stand against the human trafficking that condemns too many women and girls to forced labor and sexual slavery. she runs an academy that gives

them education and skills to find a job and start new lives. we're so proud of you. thank you for the good work you're doing. we want to help you help these young women and girls to have a future of dignity that we want for every women all across the continent and all around the world. i believe in hastings. where is hastings. in rural malawi he saw town in darkness without electricity. he gathers scrap metal, build generators on his porch and takes them down to farmers. we want to help you power africa. everybody here has a story. we believe in all of you.

we see what's possible. and we see that the vision that all of you have -- not because of what you've seen here in america but because what you've already done back home, what you see in each other and what you see in yourself. so, another person from senegal. he has a wonderful quote. he said, he has a wonderful quote, he said here i have met africa, the africa i have always believed in. she's beautiful, she's young, she's fuel of talent, and ambition. that's a good description. being here with all of you and learning together and working together and dreaming together has only strengthened his

determination he said to realization for my country. so to everyone across africa who joins our young leaders initiative, i want to thank you for inspiring us with your talent and motivation and your ambition. you got great aspirations for your countries and continent and as you build that brighter future that you imagine, i want to make sure that the united states of america will be your friend and partner every step of the way. thank you very much, everybody. let's get a few questions and comments in this town hall, all right. [ applause ] all right. okay. i know this is a rowdy crowd. first of all, i want everybody to sit down. sit down. now, i'm not going to be able to call on everybody, so just a couple of rules.

number one, don't start standing up and waving or shouting. just raise your hand and i will try to select from the audience and i'll try to take as many questions as possible so let's keep the questions or comments relatively brief and i'll try to give a brief answer. although if you ask me what are we going to do about ending war then that may require a longer answer. so we'll see how it goes. that's rule number one. rule number two we should have microphones in the audience so wait -- when i call on you wait until the microphone comes. an attendant will hold it in front of you. please introduce yourself. tell us what country you're from and ask your question or make your remark. number, two just to make sure it's fair we'll go boy, girl, boy, girl. in fact, we're going to go girl, boy, girl, boy. that's what we'll do.

one of the things we want to teach about africa is how strong the women are and how we got to empower women. all right. so, let's see who we're going to call on first. this young lady right here. right here. wait until the mic is there and then here, there is somebody right behind you who has the microphone. introduce yourself and welcome. >> thank you, mr. president. i'm from south africa. and my question is, previously nelson mandela has inspired the foundation of the sovereign african fund for enterprises. it has run for two decades and has since been stopped. is there any chance to develop another fund for enterprises in africa? >> it's a great question. one of the things that's been interesting in not only some of the platforms that you developed

at your universities but also during my trips to africa is the degree to which young africans are less interested in aid and more interested in how can they create opportunity through business and entrepreneurship and trade. not to say that we do not need to deal with very serious challenges in terms of poverty. we need to make sure we're continuing to work on behalf of the least of these. but what i think everybody recognizes is that if you want sustained development and sustained opportunity and sustained self-determination, then the key is to, to own what is produced. and to be able to create jobs

and opportunity organically and indy againously and then be able to meet the world on equal terms. so part of the challenge in entrepreneurship is financing. and for so many individuals across the continent it's just very difficult to get that initial start up money and the truth is that in many communities around africa it's not that you need so much, but you need something, that little seed capital. and so what we would like to do is to work with programs that already are existing to find out where the gaps in terms of financing, and then to make sure that we are utilizing the resources that we have in the most intelligent way possible. to target young entrepreneurs to

create small and medium size businesses all across the continent that hopefully grow into large businesses. and if we're supplementing that kind of financing with the training and networking that may be available through yali we can see the blossoming of all kinds of entrepreneurial activities all across the continent that eventually grow into larger businesses. so we're very interested in this. this is a primary focus of the summit that we have with african leader next week how do we make sure financing is available and by the way, how do we make sure the financing doesn't just go to those already at the top. how do we make sure it filters down. you know, you shown have to be the son of somebody or daughter of somebody -- [ applause ] -- you should be able to get --

if you got a good idea, you should be able to test that idea. and be judged on your own merits. and that's where i think we can help bypass what oftentimes and sadly too many countries assist them in which you have to know somebody in order to be able to finance your ideas. one thing i do want to say, keep in mind, even in the united states, if you're starting a business, it's always hard getting financing. so there are a lot of u.s. entrepreneurs and small business people, you know, when they are starting off, they are borrowing from their brothers and their sisters and begging and scratching and, you know, taking credit cards and running up debt. inherently there's risk involved. so i don't want to give anybody

the illusion who is out there starting a business or wanting to launch a business that it's going to be easy. it will not be. there are ways where we can make a difference and oftentimes particularly in rural areas of africa you don't need a lot of capital to get started. right. so you may be able -- if you buy one piece of equipment that can increase yields for a whole bunch of farmers in that community, and then the profits, additional profits that they make you now allows you to buy two pieces of equipment and then four and then eight, you can grow fairly rapidly because the baseline of capital in that community may be relatively low. so you don't necessarily have huge barriers of entry. you need that initial capital. in communities like that even a

small amount of capital can be hard to come by. that's why make being sure this is a top priority of our efforts is something we'll really emphasize. okay. all right. let's see a gentleman's turn. i'm going to call on this guy just because he's so tall. [ laughter ] you know, i was like -- i liking height. there you go. all right. go ahead. >> thank you, mr. president. i'm from senegal. president obama is president, the first president of the united states of africa, i would like to know can you share the two important issues you discussed as first president of united nation of africa. >> i'm the first

african-american president of the united states. but i wasn't sure of -- >> africa -- >> head of state. what are the top two issues that i'll be discussing when i'm at the summit tomorrow. >> if africa become united states of africa. >> i see. >> you get a chance to meet the first president -- >> i see. sort of like, kind of an intellectual exercise. if i were to discuss -- now i understand your question. >> it's clear. >> an interesting question. the idea is if somehow africa unified to united states of africa what would i say to him or her. >> yes. >> you know, i think the thing that i would emphasize first and foremost is the issue of governance. now, sometimes this is an issue

that raises some sensitivities because i think people feel like who is the united states to tell us how to govern. we have different systems. we have different traditions. what may work for the united states may not work for us. by the way, the united states, we don't see that congress is always, you know, cooperating so well and your system is not perfect. i understand all that. so let's acknowledge all that. what i will say is this. that regardless of the resources a country possess, regardless of how talented the people are, if you do not have a basic system of rule of law, of respect for

civil rights and human rights. if you do not give people a credible, legitimate way to work through the political process to express their aspirations, if you don't respect basic freedom of speech and freedom of assembly, if there are not laws in place in which everybody is equal under the law so that there's not one set of rules for the well connected and another set of rules for other people. if you do not have an economic system that is transparent and accountable so people trust if they work hard they will be rewarded for their work, and corruption is rooted out. if you don't have those basic mechanisms, it is very rare for

a country to succeed. i will go further than that. that country will not succeed over the long term. it may succeed over the short term because it may have natural resources that can extract and generate enough money to distribute, but over time that country will decline. and if you look at examples around the world, you know you'll have a country like singapore which has nothing, small tiny city state with not a lot of -- it has no real natural resources. and yet it's taken off. you have other countries which i won't mention that have incredible resources, but because there's not a basic system of rule of law that people have confidence in it never takes off. and businesses never take root.

and so what i would emphasize is governance as a starting point. it's not alone sufficient. you also then have to have an educational system in place. you have to have over time infrastructure. and there are all kinds of other elements that are necessary. but if you don't have the basic premise that ordinary citizens can succeed based on their individual efforts, that they don't have to pay a bribe in order to start a business or even get a telephone, that they won't be shaken down when they are driving down the street because the police officers aren't getting paid enough and this is the accepted way to supplement their income. if you don't have those things in place then over time there's no trust in the society. people don't have confidence that things are working the way that they should. and so then everybody starts

trying to figure out, okay, what's my angle, hour will i get my thing. and it creates a culture in which you can't really take off. all right. look, you're never going to eliminate 100% of corruption. here in the united states, occasionally we have to throw people in jail for taking money for contracts or, you know, having done favors for politicians. all that's true. the difference here in the united states and it's true in many of the more developed industrialized countries is that's more the aberration rather than the norm. i mean the truth is here in the united states if you want to start a business, you go ahead, you file a paper, you can incorporate. you might have to pay a fee of $50, $100 or whatever it ends up being. that's it. you got your business.

now the business may not be making any money at that point. you still got to do a whole bunch of stuff to succeed. the point is that basically rule of law is observed. that's the norm. that's what happens 95% of the time. and that's, i think, where you have to start. that's where young people have to have high expectations for their leadership. and don't be fooled by this notion that well, you know, we have a different way. african way. well, no. you know, the african way is not that you suddenly have -- you've been in office and then suddenly you have a swiss bank account of $2 billion. that's not the african way. [ applause ] and part of rule of law, by the way, is also that leaders

eventually give up power over time. it doesn't have to be the same way all the time, but if you have entrenched leadership forever then what happens over time is it just -- you don't get new ideas, new blood and it is inevitable i think sometimes that rule of law becomes less and less observed because people start being more concerned about keeping their positions than doing the right thing. so, okay. great question. even though it took me a while to understand it. [ laughter ] let's see. a young lady's turn. let me make sure i'm not restricting myself to -- how about that young lady right there. right there. yeah, you. yeah. hold on a second. microphone is coming.

>> i want to find out how committed is the u.s. to assisting africa in closing gender inequality which there is gender violence that threatens achievements of many goals such as access to universal education, eradicating hiv/aids. >> listen, you will not find anybody more committed than i am to this issue and let me tell you why. first of all, i was mentioning earlier, if you look comparatively at countries around the world what societies succeed, which ones don't. one of the single best measures of whether a country succeeds or not is how it treats its women.

[ applause ] and if you think about it, it makes sense. because, first of all, women are half the population. so if you have a team, we just finished the world cup, right? if you have a soccer team or you all call a football team and you go out and the other side has a full team and you send out half your team, how are you going to do? you will not do as well. if you are not empowering half of your population, that means you have half as few possible scientist, half as few possible engineers. you are crippling your own

development unnecessarily. so that's point number one. point number two, is if you educate and empower and respect a mother, then you are educating the children. right? so, you know, with a man, you educate him. that's okay. [ laughter ] a women you educate her and suddenly you got an entire village, an entire region, an entire country suddenly is becoming educated. so this is an absolute priority for us. and we'll be discussing this with the heads of state and government next week. and we've seen some progress on

some fronts, but this is where sometimes traditions can get in the way. and as many of you know, my father was from kenya -- [ applause ] -- and that's the kenyan contingent. but i think what applies to kenya is true and applies to many of the countries in africa and this is not unique to africa, we see this in other parts of the world. some of the old ways of gender relations might have made sense in a particular setting. all right. so in kenya, for example, in one tribe, polygamy existed. women had their own compounds, own land, so they were empowered in that area to be

self-sufficient. and then urbanization happened, suddenly the men may be traveling to the city. and suddenly another family in the city and the women who were left back at the villages may not be empowered in the same way and so what worked thenning might not work today. in fact, does not work today. if you seek -- if you try to duplicate traditions that were based on an entirely different economy and entirely different society and entirely different expectations, well that's going to break down. it's not going to work. so, as a continent, you have to update and create new traditions and that's where young people come in. you don't have to accept what the old ways of doing things. you can respect the past and

respect traditions while recognizing they have to be adapted to a new age. now i have to say there are some traditions that just have to become rid of. there's no excuse for them. female genital mutilation, i'm sorry. i don't consider that a tradition worth hanging on to. [ applause ] i think that's a tradition that -- i think that's a tradition that is barbaric. and should be eliminated. violence towards women. i don't care for that tradition. i'm not interested in it. it need to be eliminated. [ applause ] so part of the task is to find what traditions are worth hanging on to and what traditions you got to get rid of. i mean, you know, there was a tradition in medicine that if

you were sick they would bleed you. that's a bad tradition. we discovered, you know, let's try other things like medicine. [ laughter ] you know. so we don't have to cling on to things that just don't work. and subjugating women doesn't work. so everything we do, every program we have, any education program we have, any health program we have, any small business or economic development program that we have, we will write into it a gender equality component to it. this is not just going to be some side note. this will be part of everything that we do. and the last point i'm going to make, in order for this to be successful, all the men here

have to be just as committed to empowering women as the women are. [ applause ] that's important. so, you know, don't think that this is just a job for women to worry about women's issues. the men have to worry about it. you're a strong man, you should not feel threatened by strong women. all right. we got a gentleman. this gentleman in this bright tie right here. go ahead. >> thank you, excellency. i'm coming from kenya. africa is losing her people to

starvation and diseases which otherwise are curable and this is likely because our governments are establishing huge debts to g-8 countries. as a global leader when will the u.s. lead the other g-8 countries in forgiving africa this debt so our governments can be in a position to deliver and provide essential services like social health care and infrastructure development services to our people? >> thank you. thank you. well, let me make a couple of points on this. first of all, i think it's important to recognize on issues of health the significant progress that has been made. because i think sometimes we're so properly focused on the challenges that we forget to

remind ourselves how far we've come and when you know how far you've come it gives you confidence about how much further you can go. so over the last 20 years hiv occurrence has been cut in half in africa. half. tuberculosis and malaria deaths have been reduced by 40% and 30% respectively. 40% fewer women die by giving birth. 50 million children's lives have been spared. and we're also empowering governments themselves to begin to set up public health infrastructure and networks and training nurses and clinicians and specialists so that it becomes self-sufficient. so we're making progress. now, i think there's a legitimate discussion to be had

around debt forgiveness. and in meetings with now is the g-7 i want to let you know but that's a whole other topic that we don't want to get too far afield. i think there's genuine openness to how can we help make sure that countries are not saddled with debts that may have been squandered by past leaders but now hamstrung countries -- countries unable to get out from under the yolk of those debts. the only thing i'll to is challenge the notion that the primary reason that there's been

a failure of service delivery is because of onerous debt imposed by the west. let me say something, you know, that may be somewhat controversial. and i'm older than all of you, that i know. by definition, if you're my age you're not supposed to be in this program. [ laughter ] you lied about your age. you know, when i was a college student issues of dependency and terms of trade and, you know, the legacy of colonialism were topics of great fervent discussion. there's no doubt that dating back to the colonial era you could trace many of the problems

that have plagued the continent whether it's how lines were drawn without regard to natural boundaries and tribal and ethnic relationships. whether you look at all the resources that were extracted and the wealth that was extracted without any real return to the nature of trade as it developed in the '60s and '70s so that value was never actually produced in country but was sent somewhere else. there are all kinds of legitimate arguments you could look at in terms of history. that impeded african development. but at some point we have to stop looking somewhere else for solutions and you have to start looking for solutions

internally. and as powerful as history is and you need to know that history at some point you have to look to the future and say, okay, we didn't get a good deal then but let's make sure that we're not making excuses for not going forward. and the truth is that there's not a single country in africa and by the way this is true for the united states as well, that with the resources it had could not be doing better. so, there are a lot of countries that are generating a lot of wealth, i won't name any. but you can guess. this is a well educated crowd. there's a lot of countries that are generating a lot of income, have a lot of natural resources, but aren't putting that money back into villages to educate children. there are a lot of countries where the leaders have a lot of

resources. but the money is not going back to provide health clinics for young mothers. so, yes, i think it's important for western countries and advanced countries to look at past practices if loans have been made to countries that weren't put into productive enterprises by those leaders at that time, those leaders may be long gone but countries are still unable to dig themselves out from under those debts, can we strategically in pinpoint fashion find ways to assist in providing some relief. that's a legitimate discussion. but, do not think that's the main impediment at this point to

why we have not seen greater progress in many countries. because there's enough resources there in country even if debt is being serviced to do better than we're doing in many cases. all right. okay. so, young lady's turn. i haven't gotten anybody way back in the back there. so how about that young lady right there with the glasses. right there. there you go. >> mr. president i'm from madagascar. great for me, mr. president, to thank you on behalf of the madagascar people to integrate madagascar last month. my question is we want to ha

have -- after 2015. a great way to decrease youth unemployment in our country so what will happen? >> so a goal for those of you, i think everybody is probably aware, this is one of the primary tools we have to promote trade between the united states and many african countries. it's set to expire. there's a negotiation process taking place as we speak. more progress will be made next week. i think that we've learned some lessons about what works and what doesn't. through the first stage. in some cases what we've

discovered is that many countries can't -- even if they have no tariff barriers that they are experiencing, they still have problems in terms of getting their goods to market. and so part of what we're trying to do is to find ways in which we can lower some of the other barriers to export for african countries, not just the tariff issue, but how can we make sure that there is greater transportation networks, how can we make sure that trade financing is in place. what are the other mechanisms that may inhibit exports from african countries. that's the first thing. on a separate track part of what we're trying to figure out is how can we promote inter african trade because so often -- and

this does relate to a legacy of the past in colonialism. you have strong infrastructure to send flowers from kenya to paris, but it's very hard to send tea from kenya down to tanzania. much closer, but the infrastructure is not built. so part of what we have to do is to find ways to integrate africa. much of that is a question of infrastructure. some of it has to do with coordinating regulatory systems between countries. we're embarking on some experiments starting in east africa to see if we can get uganda, kenya, tanzania -- see

you guys know all of them. we're starting to work with these countries to see -- can we get some blocks of effective trading taking place, because, look. obviously there's going to be a certain market for certain goods. i mentioned flowers from kenya. the market, that's primarily going to be in some of the wealthier countries. but there are going to be some goods that it's going to be much easier to sell if i'm a kenyan businessman, it's going to be easier for me to sell my goods to a tanzanian or ugandan than it is for me to compete with nike or, you know, apple in the united states. right? and historically, when you look

at how trade develops, if you look at asia, for example, which has grown extraordinarily fast, a huge volume of that trade is within the region first and then over time that becomes a launching pad from which to trade globally. so, this is an area where i think we can also provide some assistance and help. but my -- just to answer directly your question, we're very strongly committed to making sure that it is re-authorized and obviously we have a bunch of members of congress here who care about this deeply as well. how much time do we have? i want to make sure. one hour. okay. i think we got time for two more questions. i'm sorry, but, you know -- all right. it's a gentleman's turn.

let me -- let me see. this gentleman in the white right here. that guy right there. hold on a second. let's get a microphone on him. >> i'm james from liberia. my question has to go the issue of antitrust law. you'll be meeting with our leader next week. will you discuss tissue -- the issue of antitrust law? >> obviously each country is different and i'll be honest with you i'm not familiar with the antitrust laws in every country. but, what i would certainly commit to doing is to talk about

antitrust in the broader context of what i said at the beginning and after maybe the first question and that's tissue of rule of law and how it interacts with the economy. if you have monopolies, or collusion between a few companies that create artificial barriers to new entrants, then economic theory will tell you that invariably that's inefficient. i want means consumers will pay more for worst products, it means those companies can concentrate more and more wealth without actually improving what they produce. and over time the economy stagnates and here in the united states we had a history of huge,

big corporations controlling huge sectors of economy and over time we put in laws to break up those monopolies and to create laws to guard against artificial monopolies that prevented competition. so, antitrust is one element of a broader set of laws and principles that every country should be adopting with the basic notion that look, if you're successful, if you are a company like apple that is innovative or a company like microsoft that came up with a new concept, you should be able to get big. you should be able to be successful. and those who founded it like bill gates should be wealthy. but, what you also want to make sure of is the next generation, the googles or facebook, they

can be successful too in that space. and that means that you have to make sure that those who got there first aren't closing the door behind them. which all too often i think happens in many countries not just in african countries. so you make an excellent point. we'll make sure that's incorporated in the broader discussion. okay. this young lady right here. yeah. because she looks so nice. [ laughter ] >> thank you very much very much. i'm from kenya. >> we got a sister right here. that's it. go ahead. >> thank you for this. i know you're going to ask the people back in our countries and

my concern would be how will you be able to and get them to commit to their promises because i know they will promise you. [ applause ] [ cheers and applause ] >> all right. don't get carried away here. well, look, part of what we've done here by building this network that we're doubling over the next couple of years is we're going directly to the young people and creating these networks and these opportunities. and what we're already seeing, i think, many countries are excited by this. they are saying, you know what? this is something that can be an empowering tool for us, so let's take advantage of it. there are going to be some that may feel somewhat threatened by it. there's no doubt about that. but the good thing is we will be

creating this network -- there are a whole bunch of people following this online. who are following it on social media. we'll have these regional centers. you will help to make sure that some of these promises are observed. because the whole continent of young people will be paying attention. and we'll be able to see which countries are really embracing this opportunity to get new young people involved and which ones are ignoring this promise. and so i will say to every one of these leaders, you need to take advantage of the most important resource you have and that's the amazing youth in these countries. [ applause ] but you're going to have to also help to hold them accountable collectively, across countries and that's part of why this network can be so important.

so, i know this is sad, but i have to go. i have other work to do. the good news is you got all am are still going to be meeting with you and talking with you, and most importantly, one of the amazing opportunities for all of you to get to know each other and to talk and to compare ideas and share concepts going forward. the main message i want to leave you with is that in the same way i'm inspired by you, you should be inspired by each other. that africa has enormous challenges, the world has enormous challenges. but i tell the young people that intern in the white house and i usually meet with them at the end of their internship after six months. i always tell them, you know, despite all of the bad news that you read about and you see on

television, despite all the terrible things that happen in places around the world, if you had to choose a time in world history in which to be born and you didn't know who you were or what your status or position would be, you would choose today because for all the difficulties, the world has made progress and africa is making progress. and it's growing. and there are fewer conflicts. and there's less war. and there's more opportunity. and there's greater democracy. and there are greater -- there's greater observance of human rights. and progress sometimes can be slow and it can be frustrating, and sometimes you take two steps forward and one step back. but the great thing about being young is you are not bound by

the past. and you can shape the future. and if all of you work hard and work together and remain confident in your possibilities, and aren't deterred when you suffer a setback, but you get back up and dust yourself off and go back at it, i have no doubt that you're going to leave behind for the next generation and the ngeneration after that n africa that is strong and vibrant and prosperous and is center on the world stage, so i can't wait to see what all of you do. good luck. [ applause ] some live events to tell you about here on c-span3, at 10:00 a.m. eastern, the house judiciary committee will hear

from u.s. citizenship and immigration services director leon rodriguez on policies regarding deportation, asylum, and other immigration services. and later in the day, ukraine's foreign minister will speak at the atlantic counsel in washington, d.c. topics will include the ongoing violence in ukraine, the downing of malaysian airlines flight 17, and the possibility of additional sanctions against russia. that's live at 1:00 eastern. the house science, space, and technology committee heard recently from two astronauts aboard the international space station. commander steven swanson and flight engineer reid wiseman spoke about life on the spacecraft and research they're conducting as part of their mission. this is half an hour. >> we're going to go on and start because time and the astronauts wait for no one. the down link is going to begin promptly at 11:20 and we have a

number of things to do between now and then. and i'll recognize myself first for an opening statement. good morning and welcome to today's event with two american astronauts direct from the international space station. through satellite communications, we will speak with nasa astronauts steve swanson and reid wiseman onboard the international space station. the station is in orbit 260 miles above us and is traveling at 17,000 miles per hour. for over 13 years, nasa astronauts have lived and worked on the space station. perhaps the greatest engineering achievement in human history. the space station is roughly the size of a football field including the end zones. it has more livable space than a five bedroom house along with science laboratories that will allow six astronauts to live and work there. the astronauts today include two americans, three russians, and

one european. steve swanson and reid wiseman will spoke to us today from the destiny lab where they are conducting scientific experiments on weightlessness in space. aboard the space station, we can develop new materials and medicines that will make their way into the commercial products that we use here on earth. the technology spin-offs from america's space program has significantly impacted our economy and improved our way of life. from the microcrip chips in our computers to lightweight metal alloys using our cars to our touch screens on our ipads, more importantly, it's a place to test new technologies that can assist new astronauts when they venture to mars and moons and planets throughout our solar system. space inspires future generations to dream big and work hard. astronauts serve as role models who inspire students to study math, science, and engineering. they also encourage scientists

to develop the innovations that keep our economy strong and insure that america remains globally competitive. but space is about much more than the tangible benefits of the technology spin-offs that improve our lives on earth. our accomplishments on space remind americans some of our greatest accomplishments. many americans remember where they were 45 years ago last sunday when apollo 11 landed on the moon. the first footprints on the moon's surface were made by americans. the u.s. should always lead the way in space exploration. space amazes us and spurs our curiosity about what's out there. it also inspires us and makes us want to push our mental and physician boundaries and encourages us to seek answers to timeless questions about life, our existence, and the meaning of it all. we can thank nasa, both at johnson space center in houston,

texas, and here at their headquarters in washington, d.c. for their hard work in making this down link possible. also after today's event, there will be a showcase of hardware and research presented my nasa, the national center for space, and the national science institute. these are leading the way in microgravity research and utilization of the international space station. it will be next door in room 2325 down the hall. so please take a look and listen to the roundtable discussion that will be held. i'll now recognize the ranking member, the gentleman from texas, ms. johnson, for her opening statement. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman, and let me welcome our audience and also welcome our former chairman of this committee that just came in, mr. garden. i'm looking forward to hearing from my astronauts today about life on the international space station and the challenges and

opportunities they face. i hope that we can follow today's event with a formal hearing at a later date that will allow a more comp hencef examination of the international space station and its utili utilization and support of space and it's application for research. this past weekend, the 45th anniversary of the first humans landing on the moon. it was a bold achievement. as was the more recent assembly of international space station. the success of both of these ventures depended on the dedication and bravery of past and present members of the astronaut core. in spite of the risks they willingly faced in the name of science and exploration, i hope that all members join me in saluting them. while the road to the completion was a long one, the international space station stands as one of the emerging

ma marvels of american age and a testament to american ingenuity and perseverance. the partnership of the international space station has stood the test of time, providing a foundation for future long-term space partnerships. the international space station has great inspirational value for our young people and you see many of them here. as evidenced by the intense interest of our students and talking to the orbiting astronauts and in developing projects that may fly on the space station, i have lots of interest from my district, yet the stark reality is the international space station is a perishable commodity and the future is now. in terms of utilizing this unique facility. while i welcome the president's proposal to extend the international space station operations to at least 2024, we naed to make sure that the years

that are available are used effectively to answer the research and engineering questions that can only be answered on the international space station. i would like to make one more point. if we want to insure that the international space station carries out the needed research and technology activities in a timely and productive fashion, we have to be willing to make the needed investments. the international space station research budget is stagnating. and the agency's life and microgravity science's budget has been cut deeply over the past decade. the approp rated funding for biological and physical research in fiscal year 2014 account for less than 3% of the total international space station funding. clearly, this is a situation congress can and must rectify. in closing, i look forward to today's down link and the

opportunity to hear from our astronauts. i thank you and yield back the balance of my time. >> thank you, ms. johnson. i'm going to introduce our astronauts now. the first is astronaut steve swanson who joined nasa as a flight engineer on the shuttle training aircraft in 1998. later that year, he was selected as a mission specialist. this is dr. swanson's third space flight. he launched earlier this year along with two russian cosmonauts, all three are expected to return to earth in september. dr. swanson received his bachelor of science and engineering, physics at the university of colorado, a masters of applied science and computer systems from florida atlantic university and his doctorate in computer science from texas a&m university. astronaut reid wiseman began his career in the military as a naval aviator, following his initial training, he made two deployments of the middle east, supporting operation enduring freedom and iraqi freedom.

he was selected for the astronaut program in 2009 while he was deployed to the middle east. you may recognize commander wiseman from the many photos that he tweets from the international space station. his twitter account @astrolead has over 160,000 followers. commander wiseman earned his bachelor of science degree in computer and systems engineering from polytechnic institute and a masters of science degree in systems engineering from johns hopkins university. let me go now to sort of the mechanics as to how this is going to work, and first of all, let me thank the members who are present here for their interest and many of them for their participation as well. we will do our best to move through questions and answers as efficiently as possible. questions for the astronauts today will alternate between the majority and minority, each side will have a total of ten minutes. and members recognized will have

two minutes each. and let me say to the extent that members can be brief, we won't go over that two-minute limit per member and then all members or more members will be able to ask questions. otherwise, there will be fewer members. there's a hard, hard, fast 20-minute total. that's why there's only ten minutes on a side. i have participated in down links in the past, so i will forego my questions and hopefully this will allow more time for another member. we have a few moments before we start the down link process, and as a reminder, when you speak to the astronauts, press your talk button, wait a couple seconds, and then speak. you have to wait for the transmission to get to the station and back. once you're finished with your question, please turn the microphone off and wait for a response. this is so the astronauts do not get feedback on their side. most importantly, please do not interrupt the astronauts while they are speaking. the delay in transmission does

not permit fluid back and forth conversations. so it must be nice to be an astronaut and not be interrupted. all right. we've now -- we've now come to a time where we are going to wait just a few minutes for the down link to begin, and so we're just going to have a pause here. this is dangerous to allow so much quiet with so many members here. maybe i should say no one is going to be recognized for improvisations or jokes, so we just have to be patient and wait for the down link. again, thank not only the members for being here, but it's nice to see a full house here in the audience as well. this is a special occasion. i don't think this has been done in congress for many, many years, and it's just -- it's a nice thing to witness firsthand. it's historic in lots of ways, and again, i do think the international space station is probably our greatest

engineering feat, and we'll see it and the astronauts in action today. and with that, we'll just be quiet for another few minutes. >> mr. chairman, maybe former chairman -- >> this is exactly what i was worried about. >> maybe formman ron paul can entertain us with a few stories from the great state of texas. >> well -- you couldn't give me enough time. >> thank you, ralph. we'll wait just a minute. >> outstanding. house committee on science, space, and technology. this is mission control houston. please call stations for a voice check. >> how do you hear me? >> we have you loud and clear. >> okay, that is great.

the gentleman from california will be recognized for a quick question. >> this is congressman dana rohrabacher. i appreciate this opportunity to ask you a direct question and i'm sure you may have seen the movie with sandra bullock just had a movie called "gravity" and it dealt with the whole idea of space debris. i was wondering if you might be able to give us an understanding of the challenge of space debris, how the space station deals with it, and if there's some other challenges like that that we may not be thinking about here that we have to deal with before we build a new station in space in the years ahead. >> good question, congressman. yes, we do have to worry about space debris up there. as a matter of fact, a couple nights ago, we had to do a

debris avoidance maneuver when we realized that there was going to be a piece of debris close to our path. so we luckily, mission control has a good program set up so when they see that, they go ahead and execute it. within a few hours, we're out of harm's way. and we have people on the ground who monitor that for us and they know where everything is, where the debris is and when wree are and they can track that and keep us safe. >> the gentleman from texas, ms. johnson, ranking member of this committee, is recognized. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. and greetings to commander wiseman and dr. swanson. it's a lot of excitement on this end watching you. i'd like both of you to comment on the aspects of international space station program that is most important in enabling human space exploration beyond the current orbit.

>> i don't want to take your entire day up. i could talk about this subject forever. really, it's getting humans into lower orbit and having us live up here. right now, for six months at a time, and in just a little over a year, we'll have scott kelly up here for an entire year. and it's all the things that happen to the human body and also what our spacecraft needs to provide to us like oxygen to breathe, water to drink, all the food, the supplies, and just running this machine through its paces over six months or even a year at a time. that's what we're going to need when we go onward to mars and spend two erthree years in space. we need to test all this stuff now on the space station so in a decade or so, we can head on to mars and have a successful journey. >> the gentleman from texas, mr. hall, is recognized. >> mr. chairman, i thank you for linking our committee to these two astronauts, to commander wiseman and dr. swanson. i remember the house flor debate

on june 23rd, 1993, and this committee, and this room when this committee came within one vote of killing the space station. congressman marqukmarkey had fo for forever. our argument was the importance of providing something tangible our children can dream about and then aim their education, their careers toward. so i'll just ask a simple question. how do you think the space station has inspired young people and can you give us some examples of efforts on the space station to engage young people and inspire them to pursue s.t.e.m. education. what would you say is the greatest legacy? i yield back. >> i do agree with you tremendously about the s.t.e.m. program. as a matter of fact, one of the things i did before i got here is work on spheres with students in the local high school. and that's what we do, an experiment we have up here, and the kids themselves get to program the spheres, satellites

that float around here, and they have competitions. i just saw it on the kids' faces when they got to have their program run on the station. they got so enthused about science and technology, it was fantastic. >> the gentlewoman from maryland, ms. edwards is recognized. >> thank you very much, and thank you so much. i have to tell you, i'm so excited, i wish i could be you when i grow up. my question and greeting to reid wiseman, a fellow marylander, you know, will package some freeze dried crab cakes for you up there. i wonder if you could tell us -- i got that signal. i wonder if you could tell us, though, the importance of the work that you do and how you were inspired to join the space program. what inspired you? because i think it is really a challenge for us to figure out what inspires the next

generation of explorers. >> that's a great question. i think back to my childhood and certain it was when the space station was being developed and launched in 1981, i was around six years old at the time, and i definitely remember a 747 flying over maryland and i was with my parents. we had gone to the top of a hill for the simple act of watching a space shuttle fly over on the back of a 747 as they were transporting it, and that image is burned into my mind. that probably started the course that i was on to become not only a navy pilot, test pilot and then an astronaut. to me, we never know as adults, we never know that little thing that's going to spark the imagination of a child's mind. for me, it was a simple airplane with a space shuttle. that's not simple, but a simple act of being with my parents and that's what sparked my imagination. so as much as we can from up here and nasa on the ground, to reach out to kids and just

expose them to this world, this s.t.e.m. world that's in motion, i think you never know when you're going to spark their imagination, and i'm sure we're doing it every day. >> the gentleman from mississippi is recognized. >> hey, reid and steve. thanks for talking to us today. hopefully the chairman of the full committee will allow us to have a congressional trip to the space station in the near future. i have a question for you from one of my constituents in south mississippi. suzanne would like to know, how do you deal with the incredible solitude for the length of your respective missions? >> that is an interesting question. each person probably does it a little differently. one of the things we like to do that i think helps keep us calm and motivated at the same time is look out the window on our beautiful planet. when we have free time, we always go over to this window we have. it's basically like a glass bottom boat of our ship and we

look down on earth and it's fantastic. that's what keeps us going, looking down on our beautiful planet. >> the gentleman from california, mr. peters, is recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. hello, gentlemen, i have a question for you for our committee. we struggle a lot with how to maintain the country's lead in science. i wondered if you could give us your perspective on how important space exploration and research is to maintaining our nation's lead in science. >> certainly, it's right at the cutting edge. and this is just one of our many pieces, i guess, in our overall u.s. portfolio of leading this technolo technological revolution we're leading day to day. just off our screen to the right, there's the arm of robonaun. we just had him out last night to do some upgrades and we'll

bring it out and get it in full operation here, maybe with a set of legs, down the road. so the work we're doing up here is right on the cutting edge, but that's just one small piece across our entire country of what's going on, and a lot of it is thanks to government funding and pumping money into this research that's critical for our nation, not just five years down the road, but 50 and 100 years down the road to stay on the cutting edge. >> the gentleman from alabama, mr. brooks, is recognized. >> dr. swanson, commander wiseman, i'm mel brooks from alabama's fifth district, the home of the space flight center. as a child, i grew up feeling the ground shake as the rocket was tested nearby. and i vividly remember apollo 11 when neil armstrong descended from the lunar mogual declaring one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind. the apollo program was american exceptionalism at its best. it made us all proud to be americans. my question is, what mission should america's space program

next embark on to be the next giant leap for mankind? >> i believe we should get ourselves to mars. i know it's a difficult road ahead to get there, but i believe we can do it. this is one of the first blocks we have to do, learn how to live in space and recycle everything we need to from water, air, everything we need to do, grow our own food, all that kind of stuff so we can reduce the amount of supplies with us, create a robust system, and right here, we're starting it off. we probably have to do a few more steps, but i think going to mars is our main goal. >> the gentlewoman from massachusetts, ms. clark, is recognized. >> thank you. it is great to be here. i have some questions from the compass summer program students in cambridge, massachusetts. they submitted over 40 questions, so i'll be quick. from donte, how do you pack?

do you bring a suitcase, and what's the temperature? from chloe, what fuel do you use to support the space shuttle? and from luke, has anyone had a birthday, and if so, how did you celebrate? >> okay. so we pack in a very, very small suitcase. it's about that big. we get about 1 1/2 kilograms. the fuel that we use, well, for our rocket ship, we basically use kerosene and oxygen to get up there and once we're on the space station, we have a hypergolic fuel mix we use to keep us here, but we don't have to burn our engines very often, and we did have a russian crew meat w crewmate who had a birthday, and we have a dinner table in node one, and we are gathered around the table, all six of us, and we share u.s. food, european food, russian food. some of our juices, some of the

russian teas are very nice. and we just joined together and have a really great evening. unfortunately, i don't think there were any presents to unwrap, but sasha, i think he was happy enough. so it was a great event. >> the gentleman from florida, mr. posey, is recognized. >> dr. swanson and commander wiseman, sometimes it's hard for americans to understand why human space exploration is so important. can you take a moment to explain how the work you're doing now on the international space station benefits americans? what are you up to? >> i think there are a few different ways to look at that question. one, we're doing research right now on our scientific aspect. we do from burning new ways to learn how actual fire works in the details part of it. we do medical research up here. we have just through station research, we have come up with ways to get chemo chatherapy to

target areas of the body more effectively, just one example. the other thing you have to look at is that humans are meant to explore, i believe, and this is one path that we need to take. and now we're starting off and that fulfills the idea, not just the whole race of humans, and that's one thing we need to do. and the other aspect, i believe this is a really good investment. a lot of spin-off technologies come out of this. it creates an economy, very good for the economy, it creates money for our country. and it creates a better world for all of us. >> the gentleman from washington is recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you for being with us. i have two quick questions that came from the young gentleman behind me here. one is just trying to get a sense, more, of how the space station plays into the effort to go to mars, and a little bit more specific about what the utility is of the space station.

he al want to know, as we look out into the century, what's on the horizon, what other new frontiers do you think we're going to visit? and he also wants to know, how many other planets are we going to discover? is that right? all right. >> well, let's start with the end question. how many planets? limitless. it just depends on hogood our sensors get in our lifetime as to how many we're going to discover. perhaps every time you look up at night at any star, you have to think there's a solar system around that star, so it just blows my mind, i know. for the space station and how does this play into our long duration missions? if we going to go to mars, we're going to set out on a three-plus year journey. if you have one major system break without spares on that journey, and that could be your own human body, your heart, your muscles, your bones, that could be your environmental control system, your engines, your solar race, any piece of the puzzle

falls apart and you have lost your mission to mars, so this is the test lab. this is where we start the fundamental blocking and tackling of this challenge to get to mars. and i think that research is being done right now and we're seeing very successful results. rour water balance is almost at 90%, so we recycle our urine into drinking water. we recycle water into oxygen. we have a really amazing rejenerative system and it's extremely effective and we're working on reliability and that's another step in the quest. >> i hope that covers enough of your questions there. >> the gentleman from texas, mr. stoutman. >> thank you for having this broadcast today, as you're my constituents, i appreciate what you're doing. i'm also proud of our country and our support of you, but some of you may know that up here, it's not universal support, which i think is a mistake. and what would you, if you were

me, what would you tell my colleagues why they should be supportive of your efforts and why we should vote three times the amount of money we're supporting right now? or four times, i don't care. >> i would be happy with twice, but that's a good question. that's a really good question, really, because again, it goes back to what do we provide for the taxpayer, and i think we one, we provide research and development. that's what we get out of this. we get new products, new ideas, new science, new research, which always helps the country in the future, maybe 10, 15 years down the road. again, that creates new companies which does better for the economy. we inspire a new generation, which hopefully gets them to be productive and help out and make our country stronger, and we then are explorers which helps the whole human race, we'll go with those points. >> the gentleman from california. >> hello, and my questions today

come from the bay area, and i have three young aspiring astronauts with questions. shea daley of san ramon, phoebe bruns of castro valley, and julia warren of castro valley. the first question is an easy one for commander wiseman. that is, what is your favorite food in space? and also, for dr. swanson, the question is, do you think one day we'll encounter life from another planet? >> you go first. >> okay, i am a food lover, but there is one particular food that they know when they open the desserts box, all chocolate pudding cake goes directly to reid wiseman's locker. and so i am hoarding chocolate pudding cake. i cannot get enough of the stuff. i tried it on earth and i really didn't like it that much, but there's something about this cake that i'm in love with. i'll pass it to dr. swanson for the follow-up. >> for the follow-up question, i

have to say yes. as we have pointed out, as you look up, there are so many solar systems, so many planets, so many possibilities, i figure there has to be somewhere and sometime it will happen. >> the gentleman from arizona is recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and a texan on my staff wants me to say howdy. in your experience so far, what have you found that has surprised you on what's robust, has held up quite well on the space station, and what have you found that is fragile that you see we're going to have to do future re-engineering of? >> so i would lead that off, sir, with this is my first space flight, and i have known the space station for many, many years. we're into our 5,000th plus day

of ops up here, and one of the things that struck me when i arrived is i expected to see an aging system, i expected it to be, from the tv, maybe it does look messy to you, but every one of these wires has a purpose. when i got up here, i realized this is a brilliant laboratory. it's in overall amazing shape. it's been very well cared for, and i think it's basically a testament to the engineering that went in, the robustness of the design that here we have been operating 5,000 days and this looks like a brand new machine up here. very impressive to me from that aspect. some things that aren't quite as reliable, the things that have surprised me a little bit is you really get to see how quickly technology on earth develops when you come up here. this was developed in the '80s and '90s, and really, you do see either net cables running all around the outside because we didn't necessarily have that technology when they built it. we flew up some tablets and there's a device that a year ago i hardly knew, and now at home i can barely live without. so just building on these

technologies as we go over time has been somewhat of a surprise. you can kind of see the evolution of technology up here. that's something in future designs i don't even know how you account for that, but it's something we'll have to look at. >> the gentlewoman is recognized. >> thank you, the students of waterbury, connecticut, want to know what they can best do to become astronauts in the future. >> well, of course, it always goes with study hard. you have to do well in school. that's a given. also, find something you're really passionate about in life. of course, it helps if it's science and technology or engineering to get this job, but you find an area in there you're passionate about, do it well, enjoy it, and that will show when you go and try to become an astronaut. that's what they're really looking for, someone who's passionate about the things they do. >> unfortunately, we're out of time, the astronauts are out of time. we want to thank you both for spending 20 minutes with us

today. appreciate all your answers to the questions. we look forward to supporting you in the future. we'll talk again. [ applause ] >> thank you all very much. >> just a reminder, please go to room 2325 down the hall for the showcase on the iss hardware and the research presented by nasa. and thank you all again for being here today. this was a special event.

on our next washington journal, we'll talk to mississippi senator roger wicker about the house senate deal on a veterans health care bill. and the ongoing debate over immigration and border security. texas democratic congressman beto o'rourke will also weigh in on that v.a. legislation and immigration. later, anthony carn avolley of georgetown university will

discuss federal workforce training programs. you can also join the conversation on facebook and twitter. washington journal, live each morning at 7:00 eastern on c-span. >> sunday on book tv's in depth. former republican congressman from texas and presidential candidate ron paul. he's written more than a dozen books on politics and history with his latest, the school revolution, on america's education system. join the conversation as he takes your calls, e-mails and tweets live. and tune in next month for o author, historian marion barry. we discuss court sessions past and present. michael corda is our guest in november, and in december, american enterprise institute president and noted musician, arthur brooks. in depth on c-span2's book tv. television for serious readers. the house judiciary

committee's over-criminalization task force recently looked at new criminal statutes enacted by congress. the task force was created in 2013 and reauthorized in february. at this hour-long hearing, its members heard from steven benjamin who served as president of the national association of criminal defense lawyers and georgetown university law professor john baker. >> task force will be in order. we have to get this hearing in before the votes start at 11:30 and noon. even though it's noticed for 10:30, i think the time for opening statements will burn up the time between now and 10:30, so we can get to the witnesses. i would like to welcome everyone to today's hearing on the judiciary committee's

over-criminalization task force, the tenth and final hearing will focus on the abandonance of criminal hearings on the books and the role of the judiciary committee's jurisdiction on the lack there of it plays on this issue. over the past year, the task force has examined many important topics in this area, gained valuable perspective on the issues from a number of highly qualified witnesses. two of which join us for today's hearing. i anticipate they will be able to provide this body with meaningful insight into the s subject of today's hearing and i appreciate their continued cooperation and the furtherance of the goals of the task force. despite the fact that it is generally accepted that the federal government does not possess a general police power, recent studies have concluded the number of federal criminal offenses on the books has grown from less than 20, which were directly related to the operation of the federal government in the years following this nation's founding, to nearly 5,000 today. which cover many types of

conduct undoubtedly intended by the framers to be left to the individual states. at the current rate, the congress passes an average of over 500 new crimes every decade. this surge is highlighted by a particularly telling statistic. nearly 50% of the federal criminal provisions enacted since the civil war have been enacted since 1970. the sheer number of federal crimes leads to a number of concerns. issues of notice and fairness were legal practitioners not to mention the general public have difficulty in determining if certain conduct violation federal law and if so, under which statute. the disorganization, the decentralization and duplicative nature of the criminal laws needs to be addressed. i have introduced legislation to do just that in the criminal code modernization and simplification act. this would cut more than a third of the existing criminal code,

reorganize the code to make it more user friendly, and consolidate criminal offenses from other titles so the title 18 includes all major criminal provisions. there are likely a number of reasons for this rapid expansion of criminal federal law including the fact that many criminal statutes are drafted h hurriedly in response to the media and public, and as a result, duplicative laws are already on the book. additionally, under the current interpretation of the house rules, it is possible and not uncommon for new criminal legislation to make its way to the house floor without ever receiving proper scrutiny from the judiciary committee. this committee is comprised of lawmakers and professional staff with expertise in drafting criminal provisions and the ability to avoid redundancy through situational awareness of the entire body of federal criminal law. as we move toward wrapping up

the business of the task force, in addition to other potential recommendations, we should consider pursuing an amendment to the rules clarifying the jurisdiction of the committee with respect not only to criminal law enforcement, but criminalization and criminal offense legislation as well. again, i would like to thank our witnesses for appearing today. i would also like to thank the members of the task force for their service over the past year. in the coming months, i hope we can begin to come together to address many of the concerns with over-criminalization that have been identified. before introducing mr. scott for his opening statements, i would like to ask unanimous consent to inclu include for the record a memorandum dated july 21st, 2014, from the office of the house parliamentarian and the crs report titled subject

updated criminal offenses enacted from 2008 to 2013, dated july 7th, 2014, into the record. and without objection, it is so ordered. and it is now my pleasure to introduce the gentleman from virginia, mr. scott. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. chairman, we have created this task force in recognition of the need to address the explosive growth of the federal prison population and the expansion of the criminal code. for five decades, congress has increasingly addressed societal problems by adding a criminal division to the criminal code. too often, we have done this in a knee-jerk fashion, charging ahead with the tough of crime policy and addressing the crime of the day instead of legislating thoughtfully and with evidence-based research. when it comes to criminal law, only those matters that can't be handled by the state need to be addressed by the federal government. what valid purpose is served by created crimes at the federal

level when they're effectively enforced by the states. for example, why should there be a federal car jacking statute? state and local law enforcement have investigated car jacking effectively for years, long before congress made it a federal crime. two weeks ago in testimony before this task force, judge irene kelly reminded us of the following recommendations made by the judicial conference in 1995 regarding five types of criminal offenses that deemed appropriate for federal jurisdiction. offenses against the federal government or its inherent interests, criminal activity with substantial multistate or international aspects, criminal activity involving complex commercial or institutional enterprises most effectively prosecuted using federal resources or expertise. serious high-level, widespread state or local corruption, and criminal cases raising highly sensitive issues. we have ignored these recommendations.

earlier this month, the congressional laboratory service informed us 403 criminal provisions were added to the u.s. code between 2008 and 2013 for an average of 67 new crimes a year. of those 403 new provisions, 39 were not even referred to the judiciary committee. for the past several years, we have estimated there were 4500 federal crimes, now the new estimate from crs is approximately 5,000. in addition to the 5,000 crimes in the u.s. code, there are approximately 300,000 federal regulations there are enforced with criminal penalties. several witnesses alt our hearings have testified many of the regulations lack an adequate criminal intent requirement to protect those who do not intend to commit wrongful acts from prosecution. witnesses have suggested an enactment of a default mens raya as well as statutory

construction as a fix for existing statutes and regulation. we have also heard concerns about statutes that carry criminal -- it's time to reclaim the authority and retain sole discretion in determining which actions are criminal and which sanctions are appropriate when liberty is at stake. regulations can still be enforced with -- excuse me, with civil penalties, but when criminal penalties are considered, congress should be involved. the result of decades of criminalizing more and more activities has been the growth of the federal prison population from about 25,000 in 1980 to over 200,000 today. making the united states the world's leader in incarceration, about seven times the international average. pew center on the states estimates incarceration rate over 350 per 100,000. the crime reduction value begins to diminish because at that

point, you certainly have all the dangerous people locked up. you also learned from the collateral consequences that more than 6500 -- excuse me, 65 million americans are now stigmatized by the criminal convictions, bombarded by over 45,000 collateral consequences of the convictions making reentry and job prospects dim. and in spite of the research that over 350 per 100,000 population yields diminishing returns and the pew research center also said anything over 500 per 100,000 is actually counterproductive, the united states leads the world in over 700 per 100,000. that's because unnecessarily locking up people wasted money that could be put to better use, families are disrupted, making the next generation more likely to commit crimes. over 700 per 100,000 counterproductive, and we lock up well over 700 per 100,000.

500 per 100,000 counterproductive. we lock up over 700. testimony received during these hearings has consistently told us that longer sentences are not the answer, yet we continue to create more crimes, increase sentences and add more mandatory minimums. mandatory minimums have specifically been studies extensively and have been shown to disrupt rational sentences patterns, discriminate against minorities, do nothing to reduce crimes and often force judges to enforce sentences that defy common sense. a code is a compilation of laws, rules, regulations that are consolidated and classified according to subject matter. our criminal code -- our criminal code is not a criminal code by that definition. federal criminal offenses are spread all over the 51 titles of the u.s. code, making it virtually impossible for practitioners, not to mention an ordinary citizen, to make any

sense out of it. it's time not only to move all criminal provisions into one title, title 18, but to also clean up and revise it as recommended by witnesses. we need to consider how to proceed, and we also need how to proceed in whether or not this should be done by congress itself or by an appointed commission. it's time that we consider evidence-based research and make wiser policies in our sentencing policy. we're wasting billions of dollars in crime policy that has been failing for the past four decades, it's time we look for more realistic and reasoned approach to the issue of incarcrashz, understanding that not every offense requires a long sentence of incarceration. while this is a final task force hearing, there is still much more to do, and i look forward to working with you in drafting a consensus report, presenting it to the full committee, and taking the necessary actions to improve our criminal justice system. >> time of the gentleman has expired. without objection, all members

opening statements will be placed in the record at this point. it is now my pleasure to introduce the witnesses. first is dr. john s. baker jr., who is the visiting professor at georgetown law school, a visiting fellow at oriole college university of oxford, an emeritus professor at law at the lsu law school. he also teached short courses on the separation of powers for the federalist society with the supreme court justice an tonn scalia. dr. baker previously worked as a federal court clerk and an assistant district attorney in new orleans and has served as a consultant to the u.s. department of justice, u.s. senate judiciary subcommittee on separation of powers, the white house office of planning, usia and usiad. he was a full-bright scholar in the philippines and a specialist in chile. dr. baker served as law clerk in the federal district court and assistant district attorney in

new orleans before joining lsu in 1975. while a professor, he has been a consultant of the state department and the justice department. he has served on the aba task force, which issued the report, the federalization of crime. he received his bachelor of arts degree from the university of dallas. his jed from the university of michigan law school, and his ph.d. in political thought from the university of london. mr. steven d. benjamin is the president of the national association of criminal defense lawyers. the nacvl is a professional bar association founded in 1958. its members include private criminal defense lawyers, public defenders, active duty u.s. military, defense counsel, law professors and judges committed to preserving fairness within america's criminal justice system. he's in private practice at the virginia firm of benjamin and

deport. >> yes. >> he serves as special counsel to the virginia courts of justice committee and is a member of the slivirginia board science. he previously served the president of the virginia association of criminal defense lawyers. i would like to ask each of you to confine your remarks to five minutes. you know what the red, yellow, and green lights mean. without objection, your full written statements will be placed in the record, and dr. baker, you're first. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i have testified here twice before, and i appreciate -- i have testified here twice before and i thank the committee for task force for allowing me to come back. actually, i'm coming back on the issue that i started out on on my own, which was counting federal crimes. and i have to concur with

everything that i've heard about the problem of federal courts, and i began with the numbers. and while numbers are not everything, they do tell a certain story. so i want to do three things quickly. one, talk a little bit about what the numbers are. two, where are we going with the numbers, and three, what is the significance of these numbers. when i testified on the november 13th, i mentioned the tremendous number of federal crimes and really the unknown number of federal regulatory offenses. after that, this task force asked the congressional research service to conduct a count from 2008 to 2013, which is where my last count left off. they came up with the number of 403 new federal crimes. that's not counting regulatory offenses. that's just from the u.s. code. and it's important to say that the counts from crs, my count, and the department of justice

counts have used fundamentally the same methodology, and that's important for consistency. what's significant, the second point about where we're going, it seems to me, is what this says about the average number of crimes and the total number of crimes. when i did the count in 2008, as of 2008, there were 4,450 crimes at least. crs has noted that we have an additional 403 crimes. that brings us up at least to 4,853 crimes, almost 5,000 crimes. it means that essentially congress is passing 500 new crimes a decade. now, the aba task force that i served on back in the '90s, the notation was that since the civil war, 40% of all federal crimes since the civil war had been passed since 1970.

from 1970 until about 1996. well, when you add what's going on since 1996, we're close -- we're approaching 50% of all federal crimes ever enacted in this country have been enacted since 1970. that was the beginning of the war on crime, which, you know, we haven't been winning that war too well. what does this mean for the future? well, the rate of crimes appears possibly to be increasing. when i did my count, it was 56.5 crimes a year. crs count shows 67 point something per year. now, that number may be skewed because in 2008, congress passed 195 crimes. what's the significance of all this? well, if you talk to an assistant u.s. attorney, and i have debated a number of former assistant u.s. attorneys, they will tell you the numbers mean

nothing. they don't use all these crimes, and they're right. in a certain sense, they don't mean that much to the prosecutor or to the judges because there are only cases that you can bring in federal court. but where they're really important is in law enforcement. that we have plenty of law enforcement agencies out there that do searches and seizures and arrests in cases that never actually get indictment, much less trial. given the broad array of crimes there's virtually nothing you can't get a basis for probable cause on. which is the basis for arrest, search, and seizure. there's a lot of concern in this country, rightly, about privacy. but i think people ought to be focusing on the fact that surveillance is not just a matter of, quote, privacy. it's a matter of the police power. the federal government, which the supreme court has stated twice in recent years, has no general police power. in reality, de facto, it has

complete police power, and we're going to see it in the surveillance. people have been focusing on nsa, but think about drones. there is nothing a drone can't search. basically, because there's every possibility for coming up with a basis of it. and some of the federal agencies will conduct raids that will never result in an indictment or if it does result in an indictment, will not result on those crimes. it is easy to come up with a rico charge, and a money laundering charge and seize somebody's property. that's the reality of where the real power is. i think that this task force has done amazing job of bipartisanship in coming together and identifying the problem. now it is necessary for your colleagues in both houses to understand what the problem is. taking this tremendous power and dumping it in the executive

branch with various agencies that in reality have their own age agendas. i'm not saying they're bad ag d agendas, but they're agendas. and there's really lack of control over what is happening out there in the field. thank you for allowing me to make this statement. >> thank you, dr. baker. mr. benjamin. >> mr. chairman and members of the task force, my name is steve benjamin and i'm the immediate past president of the national association of criminal defense lawyers. this country's preeminent bar association advancing due process for persons accused of crimes. i commend the house judiciary committee for creating the over-criminalization task force and i congratulation the task force for its impressive work over the past year. i'm especially grateful for the leadership and support of two members of my own congressional delegation, judiciary committee chair goodlatte and task force member scott whose work on this critical issue shows it trance

sends the idealogical divide. this problem is real and it affects us all. the sheer number of federal offenses, 4800 at last count 4, enactments since 2008 competes only with our number of prisoners. a number greater than any on earth as the most visible consequence of overcriminalization. but the consequences of this problem extend far beyond the number imprisons. one such consequence is the difficult of being a law-abiding citizen because criminal law is enforced by punishment, fairness and reason require adequate advanced notice of conduct that is considered criminal. adequate notice of prohibited conduct permits people to conform their conduct to the law. at the same time justifies punishment when they cross a clearly drawn line. notice it is especially important in a legal system that

presumes knowledge of the law before punishing someone for breaking the law we should ensure the law is knowable. this is true where the conduct is not wrongful in itself and the offense requires no criminal intent. criminal laws must be accessible not tonal lay persons but also to the lawyers whose job it is to identify the laws and advise their clients. the problem, however, is the federal statutory crimes in the 10,000 to 300,000 federal regulations that can be enforced criminally are statered throughout 50 titles of the code. nacdl does not have a position on whether all criminal statutes should be organized into single title of the code. common sense would dictate that most should reside that single title unless clear evidence exists that a particular criminal division belongs

elsewhere. it also includes clarity in drafting precise definition and specificity in scope. with rare exception the government should not be permitted to punish a person without having to prove that she acted with a wrongful intent. criminal law should be understandable. when the average citizen that is unfairness in its most basic form. unfortunately congress has failed to speak clearly. has failed to determine the necessity of new criminal divisions and has failed to assess whether targeted conduct is already prohibited or better addressed by state law. while the cause of these failures is not clear, the solutions are. moving forward congress should approach new criminalization with caution and ensure that the drafting and review of all criminal statutes and regulations is done with liberation, precision and by

those with specific expertise. this congressional evaluation should always include judiciary committee consideration prior to passage. this practice could be guaranteed by changing congressional rules to require every bill that would add or modify criminal penalties be subject to referral. the members of this committee are far better suited to take on this critical role. hopefully such oversight would stem the tide of criminalization and result in clearer more specific understandable criminal offenses with meaningful criminal intent requirements and would reduce the number of times criminal law making authority would be delegated to unelected regulators. these comments are limited to the issue i was invited to

address. the problems are pervasive and the measures necessary to reform go much further than reorganization or committee oversight. further discussion of course is contained in my written testimony. i thank you for your bipartisan commitment to the task of ensuring that our nation's criminal laws are not themselves a threat to liberty nacdl will continue to support and assist you however we can. >> thank you very much mr. benjamin. the chair is going to reserve his questioning to the end of the questions assuming we still have time and before the bell rings. the chair at this time recognizes the gentleman from alabama mr. bachus. >> i thank the chair. i was looking at mr. benjamins testimony both of your testimony but i think we're to the point where we're ready to act hopefully. we know the problem.

it's been reinforced several times. we've gotten the message. i think the key is what do we do? on page nine of your testimony mr. benjamin, you suggest at least four things i hear. i know congressman scott has mentioned one or two of these. one is by changing congressional rules to require every bill that would add or modify criminal offenses or penalties be subject to automatic referral to the relevant judicial committee. you know, i think that's very important because as you say, this is the committee with the expertise. two, enact a statutory law establishing a default criminal intent requirement to be read into any criminal offense that currently lacks one.

three, it says this requirement should be protective enough to prevent unfair prosecutions and should apply retroactively to all or nearly all existing laws. i actually know that's a radical idea but i believe in that. i think there ought to be something where you can go before a judge and present some evidence or before a board, particularly some of these environmental crimes. i have mentioned several cases where people discovered hazardous waste on their property and reported it but they weren't -- couldn't afford to dispose of it fast enough. a lot of these cases, i talked to a lot of former congressman in energy and commerce was dealing with this. he said we had a lot of these cases in the 80s and early 90s. we kept trying to do something

but we couldn't figure out what to do. maybe that's because it wasn't judiciary. the next thing -- i will ask your reaction. on strict liability, your association urges strict liability not be imposed in a criminal law as a general matter where strict liability is deemed necessary. the body employed after full deliberation and then only if explicit in the statute. i think we ought to say if it's not explicit in the statute there's no strict liability. the fourth one is that i did not know this but -- i will say this to members of the panel, the bottom of the page, he says supreme court is cautioned against the imposition of strict liability in criminal law and has stated that all but minor

penalties may be constitutionally impermissible without any intent requirement. you know, we said several times in our deliberations and witnesses have that without an intent requirement, you know, i can see a minor fine but when you're talking about putting someone in jail for a year, that's pretty scary. i would just ask both of you to give us five or six specific statutes that we can do or your associations or even draft some just as a model and we can look at them. i think that would be particularly helpful. i really appreciate your testimony and dr. baker, you've been here before. this to me is such an important thing because i think we have seen travesties of justice.

we've seen people with no criminal intent. if anything else, the government can use that power to force them to do things just with the threat. you know? they don't very to get a conviction. they can just -- you could really -- it could be used in a way that we see some countries around the world that use the judicial process simply to put people in jail that stand in their way of whatever their goal is. i hate that on certain cases people with agendas have maybe done that here. that's a shame because that's not american. that's not what our constitutional forefathers envisioned. my time is up. >> time of the gentleman has expired. the gentleman from virginia mr. scott. >> thank you mr. chairman. dr. baker, what problems could

occur if we defer to states for prosecution of virtually all cases that do not have a bonivide federal nexus? >> well, even today most cases the overwhelming number of cases are still prosecuted at the state level. it's more or less on a selective basis that prosecutors pick cas cases. sometimes there are conflicts between local law enforcement people in terms of whether the jurisdiction is fighting over certain cases, high profile cases. other times it's cooperation based on money. when i was prosecuting in new orleans we had longer sentences than the federal if you can believe that. so all of the federal drug cases, the federal agents would steer into our courts because the longer sentences. some states, the drug people will steer the case still into state court