sport. so until 1938, i think it was 1938 was the first year that they would let black amateur boxers fight white amateur boxers in kansas. they could go in missouri. but kansas black fighters couldn't fight the white fighters in kansas to qualify. they had to fight other black players -- black fighters in kansas. in certain sports, they had high school rules. they considered basketball a contact sport. so many black schools couldn't play against white schools in basketball because those were some of the rules. slowly, those rules have disappeared. but it was pretty tough times. there was a gentleman by the name of -- actually, he has -- there's two players. he has a couple of grandsons. i will recall his name. he played for the colorado springs sky sox. he told me the story of -- his

name was sam harriston. he said he had to go in the back. he would go in the back of the restaurant and where the cooks were. the cooks were black. so he would go back there and the players would go in the front. they are out in the restaurant. they pay $5. they get their meal, whatever it was. probably didn't cost $5 back then. he was in the back. so he was eating twice as much food. when he would leave, they would give him a to-go sack. so he would leave, and he would tell me stories about that night, his teammate, what did your people put in the sack for you? they were hungry again. he was the only one with a sack. you make the best out of a bad situation. that's what some of the players did. sam, of course, has his -- he had two sons that played in the big leagues and now he has two grandsons that play in the big leagues. i guess he did pretty good.

>> was the barnstorming something all the negro team leagues did or just the monarchs, what they wanted to do? >> all the teams tried. i will put it that way. you could see it was a very l lucrative in the money. had you to build a tradition. two of the greatest were the homestead grays and the kansas city monarchs. the monarchs for the most part, they tied up kansas, nebraska, parts of colorado, arkansas. they pretty much dominated that area. that was the team. and then there was one great white barnstorming team which the house of david. what's interesting, the house of david was booked by tom baird. they also booked the kansas city monarchs. they had a nice little scheme going. they would bring the house of

david would come in and play the local team and pretty much beat them. they had great players as well. then the monarchs would come through. they would play the local team. the same people are booking them. they would beat the local team. so now the people realize, the house of david and the monarchs are good teams. look what they did to our local team. then they would turn around and book a came, the monarchs against the house of david and get three dates out of the same city. they did this all over the country. barnstorming was -- it was intelligent move from the money side. the teams who barnstormed the best survived the longest. >> if we don't have any additional questions, phil will be available to sign his books. we want to thank phil for coming out. thank you, phil. >> thank you. [ applause ]

former pro athletes bill russell and jim brown tell their stories. a look at when walking was the nation's most popular spectator sport. now the history of racial equality in professional sports. former basketball player bill russell and former football player jim brown talk about their struggles. they discuss the role of african-americans in college and professional sports today. this panel from the lyndon johnson's presidential summary civil rights summit is about an hour m. >> good afternoon.por my name is mike cramer. i'm the director of the texas we program and sports and media e here at the university of texast we are pleased to partner againe with the lbj library.

this is our fifth event we haveo partnered with them. this is on sports in society cgr that was founded by one of the distinguished alumnis. ha we are police e pleased to part on many occasions. we also have an interesting war, timing w of this today. yesterday, one of our participants, dr. harry edwardsv moment, we formally announced that we have established a permanent lecture at the on university of texas called the dr. harry edwards lecture on sports in society. [ applause ]ts we couldn't possibly find a wars

better person in the history ofn sports and civil rights than dre harry edwards. he was gracious enough to lend his name to that lecture. we expect we will have several presentations under that name in the coming years.d civi today is -- we have a conversation that's going to occur on the area of sports and yea civil rights. i've been a part of many panelsn and many presentations over the years. normally, you try and find the best panelists and the best people to make that presentation.people rarely do you have the people, the top people who are presenting. ind other words, if had you to pick one, two and three, rarely do you get one, two and three. today we are fortunate that we k

sports and civil rights movement in the last 50 years. w we aree ecstatic, pleased, prou that we can present them and have a conversation with them with you today. let me say that again.0 we have here probably the top ] three people in this area in the last 50 years. [ applause ] so let me get on with the program. it's them you are here to see.l. i'd like to introduce to you dr. harry edwards, mr. bill russell, mr. jim brown. [ applause ]h.

take it away. >> thank you very much. it's a real pleasure to be here with two men that i have known t forouc about the last 45 or 50 years. if you hear a touch of respect and affection in t my voice during the course of o this conversation, you have me correctly. i want t to begin by stating thc there have been four athletes over the last half of the 20th o century who have been utterly transformative. of course, is the s immortal jackie robinson.ble m [ applause ] mr. bill russell. [ applause ]an the third is the incomparable mr. jim brown.

[ applause ] and the fourth is the absolutele unconcurable, miss billy jean r i want to focus on the struggle at the intereface of race and f sports. i went back and read jim and f bill's first two books. jim brown's "off my chest and out of bounds" and bill russell's "goal for glory and second win."day bec for athletes because they say where we have come from and the for them to be g where they are today.as the things that stuck with me

about those books and reading them was, first, how well the f philosophies, the perspectives, the ethical arguments and so forth of jim and bill have stood up over the last 50 years. the second thing is that they u were super starrap agthletes whr they stood up. they were super t starrage athletes when they stood up. they never were willing to exchange white racism for blackm orthodox. they were all about the people. i their argument was, and that i as a man am part of the people and i insist on being respectedb as such throughout that -- theis books. and then the fourth thing that s really blew me away and that i find amazing to this day is how young they were. we are talking about 22, 23, 24

years old. ent what we call today a young sando adult.x aware of consigning an entire a4 generation of y people to sand o citizenship. they were speaking out at 24 years old when this happened. so i would like, first of all, to go back to that time and i'm going to exercise my prerogat e prerogatives as the only 72-year-old up here and call you young men by your first names. and ask about what took you to , that place? how did you end up at that place? why don't we start, jim, with terms of this. how do you end up in that placet at 23, 24 years old? >> i was very fortunate to havea a great mother, no father. went to high school with a great coach. a great mentor, kenny malloy and they were impeccable from the ,l

standpointf of advocating education, self-determination. and i had an example of the us people that were really good. w there was tremendous ld discrimination in this country at the time. it was told to me that i could be loved and popular if i would bow down and do a little dance.l i don't know if you know what but i said, i don't really dance.er t [ laughter ] pay i just prefer to be a man. an american citizen.m, and i pay my taxes.justic i want my rights. so freedom, equality and justice is what i pursued it at all coso because nothing else would substitute for that., no trophy, no form of popularity. because i was helped as a youngo man, i knew that my life's work would be to help others. w

so that's what you have here.ok? [ applause ] >> bill, what took you down that path that you took? be i was reading "gore for glory" and you stated, i have never r been one to pursue being liked. from day one, i was about being respe respected. what took you down that path att 23, 24 years old?my >> well, i guess it started wheu i was born. my mother and father, the first thing i knew about life was my mother and father loved me. and my mother -- i was born in > 1930s in louisiana. my mother -- our first any conversation, she said to me, there's nobody on this planet any better than you.

also, there's nobody on this planet that you are better than them. so and so i grew with confidence that i was okay.ather and my mother and father always treated each other with respect. and so what i went out into the world, that's the way i thoughtw it was supposed to be. >> dokay. yo and did everything you couldu t change it to make that way when wasn't? >> huh? mother >> did everything to make it is that way when it wasn't? >> my mother told me what i was young, she says to me one day, m you cane. play in the front yar for the first time.

she had kept me in the backyard all the time. she said, the reason i want you to play in the front yard is y h peoplein will walk by and they will say things to you, good ori bad, butv it has nothing to do with you. it has to do with them and their perspective. so you play and have fun. don't worry about that. >> okay. >> so when i grew up, i . encountered things. i knew i was okay.a f but moving ahead, a few years ago i met nelson mandela.

we had a brief conversation. and i asked him how he could be such a good person of all the f things that he had encountered.w and he said, if i had reacted the way they predicted that i would act, then they were righti but he said, i am a mandela andi that's wherelo i get my philosoy from is that the opposite of love is not hate. the opposite of love is indifference. and so the only way that humans-

can evolve is they have to care about each other. >> that was evident throughout a number of your chapters in your book. leartti me ask you -- ask you t. jim, in particular, i was looking at a book entitled "the 100 most important people in t american sports" and quite fittingly billy jean king is on the cover. there was a statement that you made early on in one of your earliest books where you stated had never been a time when you h were not conscious of the civild rights movement. i was veryee conscious of the civil rights movement and very active in what i called the s movement for dignity equality o and justice.

it superseded my interest in sports. sports gave me an opportunity to help the cause. and that is what i dedicated myself to doing. theights m now, i know that you supported c the civil rights movement. but you were ahead of the civil rights movement in terms of youd focus on economic development. what led you to move beyond blk simple desegregation to economic development, to starting the ees black economic union, setting ua these offices all over the country, traveling through the k deep south in a bus with other professional athletes talking to small -- black small business ah people in georgia, alabama, tennessee? what led i you to that sense th that was the direction things had to go into? >> well, it was understanding that people had to get off of their butts. regardless of what the to

condition, use intelligence and labor as they could to deliver a themselves. we couldn'tny depend on a government or corporate america or anyone else. so i was always a person that ib advocated economic development because america is a capitalist society. it's based on economics. if you don't use economics in your community, your community will never grow. the jewish community in this country and the world has proven s minority and apply the right principals and emancipate yourself. i thought the african-american d community had to apply itself, have the greatest community, the safest communities and probablyn most of all understand economic development. sp and i attracted the top young

mba's in the country. and i got the top black athletes in the country.ndati and i put them together. and we got a grant of over $1 million at the time.entrep we hadre a fund that any young t blackhe entrepreneur could come and make that loan and get the benefit of the knowledge of our natural business planning team. so that was the way i felt we could gain equality quicker than doing anything else. >> you know, i want people to really understand. we're talking about -- think of. a 26, 25, 27-year-old athlete s today that would have that kindt of insight and vision. that's how far ahead you were in terms of that situation. it astounds me t even now. bill, you, too, had a sense of e

the necessity of economic nd development, not only did you have your own business here, but long before globalization came p into the language, had you w already set up relationships inw west africa and were talking about how we needed to connect with african countries and have mutual economic development and so forth. you also went into the south.ow i mean, two months after the assassination, i know you went down to mississippi. it was a frightening time and hs held integrated basketball clinics in mississippi two months after the death. of course, your sell ti celtic h said, just keep a low profile.6t but you wental down and held the clinics. while you were down there, you

talked to young people about thh necessity of completing school, becoming economically viable and so forth. >> well, most of the people, as i could see, were economically deprived. i felt that as one of the places where you can purchase equality a charity, you could make it a force. i know i was in boston. and there was a great many questions about why i would go to africa.ople th

people told me, africans don't like you. well, the people that were telling me that didn't like me. [ laughter ] so i wanted to go and see for e myself.s, okay? some guy came to me and he says, what do you know about africa? you don't know anything about them. they are not like you.aid you got no business doing that. so i said, you know, i have this family that are friends of mine. they have been accused of supporting the irish revolution. the family was the kennedys. i knew all of them.

in fact, i'm old enough that i remember meeting and sitting ans talking with rose kennedy. g and i said, well, if it's already for them to go back where their ancestors came from, why isn't that all right for met to go back where i think my ancestors came from? about so it was all about -- see, i never, ever considered myself as a leader or anything like that. all i did was -- one thing i wanted to make sure that i never did anything that my father would be ashamed of. so the things i did, for boston example, i coached the boston " celtics. coach of the ayer boston celtics.

so they said, you are the firstk black coach in the nba. in fact, you are the first black coach manager in baseball, football and basketball in the major leagues. what about that? and i said to them, if red had ever said to me, this is a great social experience -- experiment, i would have nothing to do with it. o the only reason i would do it, because i'm convinced that i'm the best person for the job. [ applause ] so where i considered trying to do everything in my life based on merit.

and i expected all of the people i surround myself -- >> to do the same? coll >> jim and i have known each other since college. and he used to tell me all the time that he was a better basketball player than i was anyway. aid, >> averaged 38 points a game. >> and i said, jim, no. [ laughter ] said to him one time, i said, you know, i think you n are one of the greatest athletes, if not the greatest athlete of the 20th century. but leave basketball alone. [ laughter ]pporte

jim saw andd i support ed, if y don't have any wherewithal to exercise influence, then you will never succeed. and i tried to live a life thaty would exercise influence. i personally am not interested d in that.- i'm just interested in -- i and ike always let them know th i love them. i think one of the key things about raising kids.ow.

my daughter -- i have to fight off her telling me what to do now. she graduated from harvard law school. the minute she gets i agree from harvard, she knows everything. [ laughter ] where so i just try to see where things are needed, recognize that things are needed and try to put myself in a place where i can make a difference. >> let's jump to the present.ns? where did the train leave the hm track? where are the bille russells? where are the jim browns? i know we don't expect people to do the same way -- do things the same way they were done in the

same sense that bill, you and jim didn't do things the same way that jackie robinson did orw that jesse owens or joe lewis did. how did we comeun to a place whe we have the level of uninvolvement, apathy, a lack of concern about the broader issues that you speak of now? >> you mentioned jackie robinson. i met him a couple times. when he died, i got a call fromw rachel robinson. she said that she wanted me to be a pallbearer at his funeral.d and i said, that's an overwhelming honor. why me? she said, you were one of

jackie's favorite athletes.one and i took that to say jackie as had done a tremendous thing for he was the first black to play baseball, but he was never a pushover. and he took us to a place that opening up this whole world for us. i but i was not going to re-visit that place.nd i wanted to take it to the next step. >> which you most certainly did. >> and so when red asked me -- he said, he's retiring.ch i went back to my coach. he said i'm retiring. i got to find a coach to replace

me. he said, first, do you want the job? i said, hell no. no i said, i watch what you go through. i don't want no part of that. so we agreed, both made out a ten guys that we would approve of. o he said, nobody can get the job unless you approve of it. so i made a list of ten and he made a list of ten. s there were no matches.a and so he said, what do you want to do? i said, i don't know. he said, okay, well -- he decided however on this one s i coach. i and he said, this is what i'm going to hire.i so i said, red, if you hire him, i am going to retire with you.t [ laughter ] i don't even want to be in the

same room with that person.nd i cleaned it up. i said person. and he said, why? i said, no. to i will not be on the team with a him. he said, what do you want to do/ i said, i tell you what. i will take the job as a player, coach. if it doesn't work, if you ask e me to, i will quit or you can fire me. it doesn't make a difference.n." and i will give whoever you replace me with 100% cooperation. t because i didn't want to -- i had grown to love that organizati organization. i wasn't going to do anything to harm it. >> mess it up, yeah. >> i did a pretty good job. >> i think you did.

11 nba championships. >> what i'm talking about is, ia wasnt player coach with no assistants. i didn't have any assistants. >> nobody could work with you. [ laughter ] i heard that story. >> i can be difficult. >> i know. song >> you know, i had a song written for me. he talked about my father. and the key line to the song t was, i am my father's son. and he taught me how to be a man by being one. and so, i think that i can have friendships with guys that

politically we're completely opposed. but since i, demand respect, i was also given respect.ght so the things i did, i tried to do for the right reasons. never to prove anything to someone i don't know.probably jim is a life-long friend. fr probably after my hofather, the best friend i've ever had. and the whole thing was based on mutual respect. you know what's odd about it to me is, jim and i have known each other since college. that's in the 1950s.

and i do not remember -- he sayu he doesn't remember -- when we met. >> momentous time there. momentous moment. thi >> the foundation is -- of the whole thing is, we live in ameri america, and the better america is for everybody here, the better america will be. m. >> for everybody. [ applause ] be >> i'd like to emphasize what you said, because this is a very diverse audience.sunderst sometimes i'm misunderstood. i think sometimes you're misunderstood. when you talk about jackie

robinson -- knew jackie very ak well. had a lot ofbout admiration for. but i always talked about the man that truly integrated baseball was not jackie. it was branch rickie. jackie called him mr. rickie.he he stepped out and he decided that baseball should be do. integrated. one reason might be because t is the right thing to do. the other reason might be the as box office, the black audience out there that went to baseball games. and he could have chosen satcheh page or josh gibson because thet were great, h great baseball ece players. but he chose jackie because he knew jackie had the ability to a play great baseball yet play the political role that he had to play, even though it was killing him.--o y and so i say to you that i had l and people like him. so if i digress from there, i go

to slavery n and the under grou railroad. you mru take notice of these things to be able to live in properly, i feel.riett the under ground railroad represented harriet tubman.basia she was given tremendous praise for being that pioneer who verlo basically lived her life to free the slaveske. hou what iss also overlooked is thav thosees free houses that those e people put up for the slaves to stay at and to hide them and to get them up to the north and get tl them to canada were regular people, regular people. nothing special. tal but the commonality was that o they were good human beings. when we talk, the three of us -s i want to emphasize this.

we always talk about the rig category of good human beings before we talk about white, black, whatever.us and thate becomes important in y being a man, because if i have t charity in my soul or the wisdom to recognize goodness in people, then i'm a man, a man of god, ay man of trying to do the right thing. therefore, nothing you can do or say to me will change my attitude about my manhood. over the years, the biggest n problem that we have had in this country is whenever you stand ue for the right thing, even though it's for the overall populous, c people take the attitude that s yout are a racist or they call t an opposite racist. so i wanted to make that point, because when you say where are

we today, well the one guy that i depend on most, young man that juf just won the super bowl and who is a tremendous human being and has gotten through troubledthe times and understands what we f are doing is ray lewis. ray, i think, can be the leadert of a lot of these young individuals who need that leadership, who want to learn t what to do and how to participate in making tremendous change within this country. i thought i would interject its that. >> there is no question that thn ever -y generation has to develo its own leadership.m i think that we can -- people oe our generation can do the analysis and tell them about rsp what happened and a where we thy they are. but ultimately, it's this generation that's going to have to take the leadership and ask responsibility. let me ask, i know that -- because we are running short here. let me ask this.y

i know that progress many timest is a lot like the concept of profit. it really comesin downg to who keeping the books. and so in looking at where we are, how much progress have we t actually made in sports given the fact that we are down to 8% african-americans in baseball, 21% in 1973 the heavyweight division of boxing is just about wiped out. i remember a time when there wa, ali and norton and george foreman and patterson and youngy and cleveland williams and larry holmes couldn't break into the r lineup. partner. a today, you couldn't find two t people in 100 in an ender african-american community who t could tell if you there was a black heavyweight contender

around now. when you look a t the fact that n. the nba is one-quarter foreign born, we are losing spots there. how much progress have we mp in actually made? where are we in terms of that concept? >> harry,an i'm going to jump i there because i think a simple way i can say that jimmy carter, president carter experiensoldee yesterday was almost everything you need to know about progress, about heart, about honesty and about the future. he is on top of it in every way. so i would say to all of america, if you can get a tape of the jimmy carter presentation of yesterday, that that affair unbelievable.

[ applause ] >> there's a movement going on now about unionizing college athle athletes. i'll be very interested in both of yourti e opinions in terms ok this unionization effort. it's just starting. i think people are looking posit around for an opinion, a perspective on an it that they understand and wrap their minds about. jim? bill?his phr >> bill, you want to take this? >> for me, i have this phrase that i use. all great fortunes are amassed with either cheap or slave one labor.ever and soyb the ncaa is one group everybody is focusing on.

they have this money machine. to and to keep it this way, the labor force has to be free or ok very low wages. that's why you look at a lot of the great companies in this country, and they pay their labor -- they can't afford to go to the place where they work.oo, i know when i was a rookie 100 years ago, the average salary in the nba was $5,000. that's not even meal money now.

in the middle 1960, we struck ck the all-star game, the 20 top players in the league got together and struck an all-star game to form the union. the owners said, no way. we are not going to do that. so we said, okay. there will be no all-star game.a abc television said that if you want us to televise, you get d o your players on the floor.do they said, let's talk to them. l so tle sahey said, we don't wan lose face. t what we will do is if you will play the all-star game, at the end of the year, we will recognize the union.e so the vote 11-9 to play. lawy

and weer played the all-star ga. so at the end of the year we a went in to talk to the commissioner. he said, i recognize the playert association. but we do notk have anything to talk about.awyer i'm not going to talk to you about anything.okayf the so our lawyer said, i will see you in september. that's the beginning of the next season. the commission sherr saer said, playoffs start next week.cause y we're not going to play the not what we knew then was our contract was for the regular games only, not preseason, all-stars or playoffs. so, well, we will see you next septemb september. the icplayoffs is where everybo

got well. game. you almost doubled the price ofy tickets and you sold out every l game. the revenue going out y the window. you w so they said, okay, we will talk to you.ou list what do you want to talk about? so we had a list of things that we had to change. one of the things that we knew e was baseball was the only sportf that had antitrust exemption.s. the rest of us had -- the rest l of sports had to go through antitrust laws. so all the grievance with the nba now are based on collectivew bargainingit agreements. c >> will that work at college?yog is that a model for college? is that something that these young athletes should be looking at? >> t i'm going to simplify it.

i'm totally against a union in college. i don't like the ncaa. i think it's a greedy bri organization, an organization unfair to the players. players can't even get enough money to bring their parents to a game h. on the other hand, i think that we have all gotten away from the value of education.k [ applause ] so i'm an advocate of, let's go back to four years of college. [ applause ]etall, let's graduate and then let's hs choose to play basketball, football, whatever or not. as you know, there's a very low percentage of individuals that n make the professional teams. but everybody can get that

scholarship can get a college education. so we have to re-emphasize education and the value of it.ce because that's going to really n be the ingredient that's going o to make the change.s it's not going to be a strugglea between the sncaa and the union and all that. that's strictly money. >> yeah. >> as we know with these players today that we have, millionaires, over two-thirds of them go bankrupt within three years. to so we put the value back on education and making that s dedication to your college and let the ncaa support that with giving the players a right amount of money so they can live great education.ant [ applause ] >> we are running short here.hi. i do want to ask you about one other thing. how close are we in athletics in

this country to really measuring people, evaluating people basedd upon a content of their character and the caliber of s their competence asit opposed t what they are and who they are? we have a situation now where we have activae agthletes saying, m gay. the jason collins, most certainly mike sams, there's another -- ae young man who played a i'm championship game, the first active division i athlete to say i'm gay.evalua howt close are we to putting ths madness behind us about evaluating people based upon os these -- all of these secondarye inconsequence shall things as , opposed to the content of their

character and the caliber of their confidence? tha how close are we? >> you want that one? >> what i will say is, the firsw athlete you heard about coming out as gay, someone asked me, how would you feel about playing with a gay player. and i have one question. can he play? [ applause ] >> the caliber of his competence? >> right. >> >> i cannot add to that.ll >> jim was a professional ain te

most macho of all american sports.e, iion, but it seems to me -- it may not beh a good correlation. but a lot of questions they uesi asked about gayon athletes were essentially the same questions they used to ask about us, the w black athletes. >> absolutely. to isn't it a simple situation? we have laws in this country. we try to abide by laws. r we have different denominations. we have different races, etc., gender. and if you are a law abiding citizen and trying to do the i right thing, then how can anyone judge you? i think it's that simple. i can't get into the religious earlier, the character of a aspect of it. look for the -- as you said 've

earlier, the g character of a person. that's good enough for me. k i have my own things i got to s deal with.we >> i know what you mean.know, i we are getting pretty close to l the end here. typically, at this time, you ad know, is when the moderator will ask, how do you want to be who remembered and one thing and d another. but i have researched that. i looked at 31 people who said how they wanted to be wan remembered. then when i read the follow-up, not one of thoem was remembered. the way they said they wanted to be remembered. of we won't waste our time with that morbid wishful things. i have a couple of last questions for you. we have gotten pretty serious here. i think this wonderful audience

deserves is a chocolate shake with their broccoli. bill, the question i have been wanting to ask you the last 45 and -- 11 nba championships in 13 seasons. i mean, i looked at this thing where lebron james came out and said when he put miss mount rushmore of players up, he left you off. m i didn't have any problem with that because it's really not mount rushmore, it's mount wans russell. the faces he hangs on it, who cares. he can put anybody he wants to up there.3 i do have a question. 11 championships in 13 years --i 13 seasons. w it's mindit boggling. the question i have had for the last 45 years is what happened with them other two?- [ laughter ] rig

>> all right.h my teams were in the finals 12 times. in the finals 12 los times. and one year -- i had a severelh sprained ankle and i wasn't able to play. and we lost. but, i very rarely bring that t up. i tell you why. as a team game, and my team lost. and because it's a team game an> i want to go to the other side and say my team won. so i give them credit for beating us. >> so the other two you just

lost. >> yeah. >> it's hard to talk about yourself but i can talk about you. you know, 11 championships were precede by two college championships. two of them.team the common denominator in a team sport was you. team sport means that you are a team, everyone having responsibility and you win together.. not michael jordan being acrobatic or lebron james being a freak of nature. but, bill, your contribution --d made the difference. of team. it k is your contribution.>> ant we know you're the greatest contributor. >> yeah. >> and the objective of a team is to win. >> that should be a picture of m

bill russell next to the word eb "winner" in the dictionary. i >> absolutely. and that's my man. >> in the two minutes -- >> never been a greater contributor in any sport. >> in the two minutes i have left -- y >> that'sou a friend of mine. >> i know.im. i know. but what bill is selling you, un jim, you don't have to pay him a that money you owe him.er of you're in good shape. >> i have a question here.ou jim, you're an actor. you produced a number of successful musical groups.uch m of course you understand the politics of the entertainment q ju you can get out of a forum such as football. i have a question because i to this. playe president barack obama leading up to his first