himself off course. one of the problems from the walk from boston to washington that he attempts to do in ten days and was four hours late. he got to philadelphia and took a wrong turn. it wasn't until 10, 15 miles down the line that he realized he took the wrong road. so it was very difficult. the prizes. as i said most of the six day races you would win a percentage of the gate. so you might win for a big race $20,000. often the long distance races were done for gambling so there would be wagers made. westinn would find a backer or somebody willing to put up $10,000 and was confident he could finish the race, finish

the walk from portland maine to washington in less than 30 days and find another gambler who was tolli willing to say he couldn't. it was interesting because in races like that -- but in walking fe walking's like that there was a lot of fear that somebody might try to sabotage him so he wouldn't make it. he actually brought a food taster along with him when he did the walk from portland, maine to chicago to make sure nobody tried to poison him. even if you made him sick for two days, it might be enough for his schedule to be off. he was meticulous about his schedule. he scheduled ef mvery minute. he had everything scheduled out. when he would sleep or eat. those sorts of things. if he was taken off of that schedule, he would be in

trouble. >> a couple of comments. it seems that the speed that you referred to seems phenomenal especially over that period of time. number two, true man was famous for being a walker. evide everyday he took his constitutional walk. >> referring to the speed of the pedestrians in the competitive races, i think -- it's hard to tell. we have to photographs, much less moving pictures. it's a shame. it was still the age of line drawings and engraving but the way people described westinn's walk really sounded similar to what race walking was today. they said he had a wobbling walk. he moved his hips. i had a feeling that he walked fast much like modern race walkers do. as far as truman, yeah, he

walked -- i forget what it was. what was his old military pace of 60 steps a minute or something. he was famous for his walks. he liked to walk around washington. there's a good story where the secret service hated it. well, the secret service had been protecting fdr for 12 years and really didn't have to worry about fdr going on long walks. so they were used to sitting around smoking all day. one day harry goes out of the office having to deposit his check at the bank. it took them two blocks to catch-up with him. the secret service did a thing where they decided they were going to fix the traffic lights so he would always hit the walk signals as soon as he was out on his walks in washington.

he returned independence, missouri and he walked right up to the very end. he died in '73, he was 88 years old. he was a firm believer in walking. in fact, he was probably young enough, i know he remembers the 1884 -- at least he would have heard from, you know, his parents or other older people about the great walking matches that had taken place about ten years before he was born. >> one more. >> how did timing work in terms of when the athletes would take a nap? how would keep track of that? >> how would timing work when athletes took a nap? >> well, you were on your own when you took a nap. you could sleep as much as you

wanted but you were sacrificing that time on the track. i know in the major arenas like in new york and chicago, there was a large clock on the wall so everybody could keep track of how long people slept and how long they were on the track but nobody really kept statistics about exactly how long somebody was on the track or slept. if you took a nap, you were really taking your chances because of the rest of the field could just continue walking. yeah, it's interesting. the idea of timing and timing to the second and minute. it was -- you can't really trust all of the times you hear sometimes, you know, where somebody would say oh, i walked 500 miles in five days. 14 hours and 23 minutes. well, how good was the clock?

think didn't have court timing or anything. a lot in the book i kind of try to take with a grain of salt when people say oh, he walked 100 miles in 19 hours. it's like it's not always easy to be sure. yes. >> how did they eat? they ate while theywere allowed attendant that would help them, i don't know, cut the stake while they were walking. but they took their meals and drinks while they walked, obviously to save time. maybe they'd have a big old piece of rare meat and chew on it and that was it. i don't know how you would eat the greasy eel broth while you were walking without burning yourself but yeah, meals were taken while they walked.

all right. well, thank you so much again. i really appreciate your attention. [ applause ] te provider. watch us on tv, like american history tv is normally seen weekends here on cspan 3. while congress is on its summer break we're presenting it in prime time this week. coming up, the history of the kansas city monarchs negro lead team and the impact it had on baseball. that's followed by a discussion of racism in sports over the years. former pro athletes jim russell and tim brown tell their stories. then a look at when walking was the nation's most popular inspespectato spectator's sport. cspan's latest book sunday at 8:00. a collection of stories from some of the nation's most

influential people over the last 25 years. >> i always knew there was a risk in the bow heemian lifestyle and i decided to take it because whether it's an illusion or not, don't think it is. it helped my concentration. it stopped me being bored. it stopped other people being boring to some extent. it would keep me awake. it would want me to keep the evening going longer. the answer is would i do it again. the answer is yes, i would have quit and hoped to have gotten away with the whole thing. the truth is it would be hypocritical to say no, i wouldn't touch the stuff if i knew because i did know. everyone knows. >> the soviet union contained the seeds of the own

destruction. many of the problems that we saw at the end began at the very beginning. i spoke already about the contempt to control all institutions and control all parts of the economy and political life and social life. one of the problems is when you do that when you try to control everything, then you create opposition and financial dissidence everywhere. if you tell all artists they have to paint the same way and one artist says i don't want to paint that way, i want to paint another way. you've made him into a political disside dissident. if you want to subsidize housing and we want to talk about it and the poll yule as agrees it's something we should subsidize then put it on the ballot sheet and make it clear and evident how much it's costing. when you deliver it through these third parties enterprises. fanny may and freddie mac when you deliver the subsidies private shareholders and executives who can extract a lot

of that subsidy for themselves. that is not a very good way of subsidizing homeownership. >> christopher hitch ens are a few of the engaging stories at cspan's sunday at 8:00. now available at your favorite book seller. >> now baseball historian phil dixonant kansas city monarchs. the longest running franchise in negro league history. he discusses how they created a number of hall of famers and brought new innovations to the game including lights for night games. the dwight eisenhower presidential museum hosted this hour long event. >> first i want to say good afternoon. i want to thank some people, of course, tim, for giving me this opportunity to come down and speak with you today. i'm really excited about that.

of course, samantha who handled a lot of the publicity for the event. she did a wonderful job. also there was a local radio station who did a great interview between newspaper and radio, i'm always appreciative of all the people who support your visit. so i want to thank all of them before i get started. i'm going to jump right into it and tell you a little bit about why i'm here. the kansas city mon oarchs were negro league baseball team. perhaps some of you have heard of them. or some of their great players jackie robinson or satchel page. they were organized in 1920, 1924. they won their first world championship. that was 90 years ago. i was trying to figure a way to honor these great men who purely played for the love of the game because they didn't make great salaries back then. so i decided i was going to visit 90 cities to so

commemorate the monarchs efforts as a negro baseball team. they played in more than 90 cities. i'm going to 90 cities. that just scratches the surface of all of the places the kansas city monarchs went. they were great ambassadors for the game. for me my journey started a long time ago. as a child i collected baseball cards an i kind of went nuts with that. so i found out about baseball and i just collecting, collecting, collecting and the collection kept growing and growing. my knowledge grew. so not only did i know about the baseball statistics but the thing that captured me the most were baseball stories. i'd like to read the backs and whatever stories they had andat kept growing. finally this kind of brings me home. here is what happened.

i got my first full time job working for alko retail stores. i was out of bounced me around to a few places. i was in colorado springs. al about a kirk albuquerque an up in topeka kansas. someone mentioned there was a kneei negro leaguer who played in topeka. his name was carol ray matho. through that association, he later passed. i decided to do a little tribute to mr. motho. so in doing this tribute, once again being that kind of person who loves to collect information, you know, i challenged myself and i said i'm going to find every game the kansas city monarchs ever

played. that was a pretty aggressive idea back in 19 ae80. if you wanted to write the library, you had to go to the library and they had a big book with all the library dresses from the state of kansas. i went them down and i go and write letters so i had all of these letters. it was a labor of love and of passion to just keep on growing. needless to say i was able to find games that were played there because of that. as a tribute to the kansas city monarchs who were very in kansas city. what i'm doing now is going to towns that they played and the name of my program is the kansas city monarchs and our hometown. now, give you a little bit of overview of the kansas city monarchs. as i said a mow. ago they were organized in 1920. they were charter members of the negro national league and they

won their first championship in 1923 but at that time they didn't have a world series. so in 1924, they played the eastern colored league, the hilldale team and the kansas city monarchs won. the hilldale team was out of pennsylvania. the following year hilldale won that year as the best team in the eastern colored league. of course the kansas city monarchs continued to play and by 1929 they had won another championship under the leadership of a guy named wilbur bolorogan. among the way the monarchs played exhibition games. in the negro league they had a regular schedule so you had eight teams and regular a

schedule but most of those games would be on the weekend when they could draw the largest audience so they would play, friday, saturday, sunday, then on monday. well, in between that if you're coming from kansas city, going to st. louis, there's a lot of cities in between. remember we're talking about the golden age of town baseball. these are grown fellas who are growing baseball. some of them were workers in the town but they loved baseball as well. so these are grown men playing baseball. as you can see the monarchs during the 1920s. this is an article from our kansas city kansas daily traveler. they only lost three teams in over 400 exhibition games. the towns had good teams but the monarchs were hard to beat. during that time when they were barn storming, the first time they came there was in 1923 and they were on the trains but in 1925, there was a highway act.

they started building up the highways connecting all of the major cities and some not so major together. so the owner of the kansas city monarchs being this creative genius that he was, he decided that he would use a bus to transfer his players and they could go places on a different schedule than the railroad and go to cities that weren't along the railroad lines. in that he became the first team to travel exclusively by bus. the other thing that's traveling is the kansas city monarchs in 1930, they popularized night baseball. when you think of night baseball you don't think of the monarchs. most people remember the date, i think it was may 24th, 1935 when they talk about sincincinnati

lighting up its park that's the date i learned as a child. this is when it started in the leagues but actually with the monarchs it was started in 1930. he wanted to make night baseball popular so he passed from what he had seen at carnivals and circuses and he created towers that he could take on trucks from city to city and popularized night baseball. the major leagues were skeptical of night baseball. it's been recorded that the president of the american league said it was a passing fad. it would never last. wilcopson said lights will be to baseball what talking is so movies. another bit of history is the first all night world series where all of the games are played in the night was 1985 where the kansas city royals played the st. louis cardinals.

it took that long. in fact the first world series game at night wasn't until 1971. back in the 1930s. the monarchs were already popularizing that. as a matter of fact, one of them pitched the first no hitter back in 1930 under the lights. this is one of his greatest innovations. he doesn't often get credit for it but it revolutions baseball everywhere. in 1930, the depression had pretty much hit most of the major cities that were in the league. so st. louis, chicago, all of those cities were in depressions. so wilconson decided to pull his team out of the league and go 100% born storming. what he was able to do through that is to take the monarchs to

places that they couldn't go in between their schedule. so like in between their schedule he could come out to western kansas. take a week, take a few days and come back to kansas city. when they got out of the league they went as far as the pacific coast. portland, washington state. mexico, canada. el berta, they were in canada. they went all over the play. going all of those places, you can see they rarely lost. this was an awfully good team. but the barn storming is a part that most people had the opportunity to see the kansas city monarchs. this is the way that most baseball fans had the chance to see the kansas city monarchs especially outside of the

cities. the towns teams knew how great the monarchs were. a ball player can recognize another ball player, no doubt about it. so when they saw the kansas city monarchs, they recognized how good these players were. this picture right here, this game was played in blue rapids kansas. so that 1939 and that shows how popular they were the teams were willing to pose with the kansas city monarchs. this was at a time when racial divides could be pretty tough but the kansas city monarchs were welcomed almost every place they went. so because of his great innovations, jl killconson so we have pictured here is a member of the baseball hall of fame in cooperstown, new york. one of his pictures -- i might mentiont/ç is when they organb4

the negro national league, he league. how that came about was because in 1911, he organized a team called the all nations. they had many nationalities on one team traveling together. so mendeyes was with them. he was a cuban. they also had donaldson. an african out of missouri. one of the greatest lefties that ever lived. they had an italian guy and they had a native-american that played with him and the first professional japanese player played on his team. that team played right up into world war i. they were pretty much zdecimate by the draft of world war i.

because of his relationships with various races, he was picked to organize a team and that's how he became the only white owner in the negro national league. also, mendeyes, outstanding player was the monarch's first manager. he had started with kiwilconson has been enshrined in new york. also andy cooper who was originally born in waco, texas. in 1920 he played for the detroit stars in the kneeing ne national league. and then he came to the kansas city monarchs and remains there until he died as the manager of the monarchs in 1940. because he was such an outstanding player he too is in the major league baseball hall

of fame at cooperstown new york. but of all of the greatest players, especially during 1920s there was none greater than wilber bullet roguean. many people to this day have not heard his name. if the had the same group of people here in 1920 and i was to mention his name, they would know exactly who i was talking about. he was widely publicized. here is the reason why i personally think he was the greatest all around baseball player that ever lived. right before we went and started this whole new decade and a new century. they did all of these polls of the greatest baseball players of all time. of course everybody picks babe ruth. first of all 7::ç was a pitc'). he invented a pitch called the

palm ball. he won over 400 games as a pitcher. also he was a great batter and hit for home run power and he was 5'7" and had over 4 houn ho, 400 home runs as a hitter. he also played the outfield when he wasn't pitching and was a gold glove outfielder. tremendous arm. he was a fast runner. he could run a 100 yard dash in less than ten minutes or in that area. on top of that he managed the monarchs and led them to the n penette in 1929 and in 1934 he managed a winning team and when he wasn't doing that he drove

the bus. there were lots of games that happened here. this is one of the things i do when i go to cities. i talk about the games in that particular town. there was one interesting game in junction city that i'd like to add. we will get to that. but the first time the monarchs came as i said was in 1923. it was august 17th. one thing that was unique, this didn't happen too often. in 1925 they came there twice in the same year. that was rare that they would go back to a city like that twice. of course, in 19 -- 1938 -- there were in other games along the way. 1926 they came here in august and it got rained out. and then they came back in september 15th of 1927, they got rained out again. there's another game i know in 1939 i'm still trying to find

information on it. i can't give you much detal but i do have some interesting things that i do want to talk about. keep in mind the integration of blacks on white teams wasn't new. this is a picture of the humbolt team in the 1880s. there was another gentleman by the name of bert wakefield who was out of detroit kansas and went by the name of jones, bert jones, he was from achisson. he played in the kansas state league up to 1889. they were one of the last leagues to include african-american players. this is the earliest picture i ever found of an integrated team

in the state of kansas. now these games, there were always scouts from other cities trying to figure out how they could beat the monarchs. in this particular year, i saw a reference to the manager coming over from hmanhattan to count te kansas city monarchs. so he comes over and scouts the monarchs which is kind of interesting because you wouldn't think that people are actually scouting teams at that time. of course, when he got over here this is what he saw. the kansas city monarchs, the first time they came through, they really much handled the local team. beat them 10-2. as you notice, mendeyes is in the game. the guy whose in the hall of fame. he's probably one the earliest hall of famers they could see and of course bullet roguean was

also there that day who is also in the hall of fame. of course there owner was there as well. by there was a guy by the name of sweed pearson. he pitched the final four innings of that game. sweed was a local player. he was just a heck of a good pitcher. he was probably good enough to go to the big leagues but in times like those, the big leagues didn't always pay the largest amount of money. some guys if they had a good enough job, they didn't leave. so they come there and pretty much beat them but because the score was 10-2. would you believe they were proud of that. in the paper they printed that there's some mean satisfaction in knowing that the kansas city monarchs defeated junction city 13-1. clay center 13-1 and abelene only 10-2.

i thought that was interesting. if you couldn't beat them, maybe you can look better than the surrounding towns. that happened all the time. what's happen triinteresting ab game is when the monarchs organized in 1920, the first president was a man by the name of andrew foster. he had been managing teams. he had the cubans, the detroit stars and the american giants and the chicago giants. he was booking those teams and getting either 5 to 10% of the gate wherever they played. so they needed foster to come into the league to be apart of the league because he controlled 4, five maybe of the best teams through booking him. they had to convince him to give up his booking money to come into the league and join the league. in order to satisfy him they said we will give you 5% from every game played in the negro

national league. so the new ones plus the teams he used to book, they were going to give him 5% because they had to pay 10 to foster. he kept immaculate records. i was able to come across his record book. what i as able to find out exactly how much money they made in there. they had 1,000 people at the game and the monarchs share -- once again they got a share. the monarchs charged 65% the gate if you booked them in your town. they made $341 playing in abeline. you can see the gate receipts from other cities, junction city, $406 over at burlington. lee roy, i guess they couldn't get a crowd there was $75.

it gives you just a view of how important these games were from a profitable stance. well, the monarched had pretty much handled them but they still had their great pitcher. so they invited the monarchs back twice in 1925. this is the line-up that appears in 1925 when the monarchs came through. some of these names like bullet roguean was in left field had a day. didn't pitch. so they come through and some of the players like sweat, he was originally born in humbolt gave up around that area. i was born in kansas city. brewer was born and raised in levingworth. this is the team that they

played. roguean wasn't pitching that day but pearson for the local team struck out ten of the kansas city monarchs. rogue an played the outfield and went 1 for 3. he hit the only home run of the game. so just now sending player and so when they came, how much money did they make, right? so we go back to foster's ledger. there were 900 people and the monarchs made $260. what's interesting if you look, the monarchs are there on the 9th, but if you go down to the 20th there, you can see they were in burmingham, alabama. so they made more there than they did in4-r birmingham.

i guess the people were not satisfied because they had never seen bullet roguean pitch. so they had to invite them back to see him pitch. bullet comes to down and this is the final score. 11-4. bullet pitches and they score four runs off of him. there were 15,000 people at this game and i think this day the public got their moneys worth seeing that game. the monarchs hit four home runs and wouldn't you know it, bullet added another hole run to his under dominate list of home runs. once again talk about home runs if you go online or look in the books, these are not the home runs they talk about. these are games people generally don't know about. ent to pittsburgh state

college, also played football and was a great player and he was from the humbolt area. wayne johnston and "the box score" they put johnson but it was wayne johnston and he lived in steubenville, ohio. actually after he refrird baseball, an older guy he ran a store, a bait and tackle store and specialized in setting worms. so that's what he did after his living. in addition to home run, roguean struck out 12 that day. so they finally got a chance to seellet bullet roguean. abeline did something that was quite a feet as well.rst na a guy named haws and taylor hits home a runs off roguean.

the newspaper thought that was o impressive. they said it was something to b proud of because he's considered one of the world's best bac pitchers. they knew something about then a about baseball and once again, we can go back to foster's ledgs ledger and this is what we find. the monarch took that day with roguean pitching and drew a much better crowd.f drew $420. if you take a closer look, you see the monarchs left year and s once again this had to be a different secretary pause of thy way they spelled abeline was ane completely different than the way the secretary spelled it w a first. we know the date. that's definitely abeline. if you notice on the second agn abeline, they don't play again n until the 8thd and they are in st. louis playing against the st. louis stars.

if you notice, abeline made more money than the league team the . st. louis stars. i keep stressing that because r people wonder why would they play all of these exhibition games when you have a league? o the reason why is -- one thing.a that was income. one other game i'd like to talk about -- i usually try to talk about three to four games in every city. i try to pick some of the more e interesting games to talk about. so one of the games i wanted to talk about -- i might mention b- the other- games that i have in abeline were rain outs and some things like that. there's one in 1939 i'll still l trying to pull out the details to.there there could beco other times ths came as late as 1955. usuallysp when i go somewhere t speak there's an old baseball sy player in the audience saying they were here in 1952 and we played against them. so i'm always finding new information everywhere i go.i that's exciting to me because i go and instantly start digging

that information out and trying to see how -- what happened in the game. so anyway, one of the next gamee that i wanted to mention i was rog roguean's last season in 1938. the monarchs came down and the were going to play in junction city. the newspaper said roguean's name iros undoubtly the most famous name in negro baseball nd besides being a freendish his fa hitter. his speed t and control was almt perfect..ue major league batter who batted against him said he was as good as any pitcher he ever faced. to this is what they write about rogan, he's going back to the ht

races that the monarchs played. he's basically making that last round trip around the league. that kind of shows the popularity he had. when the monarchs showed up in junction city, things had changed in baseball.seball. the golden era of town table hae began togu die.ticular at this particular point, most s teams had college players and eu young guys and they would have these band johnson leagues all over kansas.so one one of the things the le prettyag much handled those bang johnsonue leagues. they started to book other teamn to play against the kansas city monarchs in the city. in 1937 you see the monarchs playing othesr teams outside of

kansas city. the monarchs came to town with four hall of famers. theth manager who did not play andy cooper was in the hall of fame. norman sterns had been with li detroit and had him for a littld bit in 1934. he was a fantastic player. he was a guy who used to talk to his bats.e buck o'neil used to tell me thet story that he always carried a 33 ouncewas and 34 ounce back. buck said he was rooming with him and he said he came back ann turkey was in there and they had the 34 and 33 ounce bat and he carried his bats.to took them to the room.om. the monarchs had lost a game that day and he had used the 33

bat and it went about this far from going over the fence. i used you and i didn't hit the home run but if i had used you, the 34 ounce ith would have hit that and we would have won the game. >> he was just a great player. he was on that team. of course you got bullet rogan in his final season. he's on that team. you have another guy named wilard home run brown. he was playing short stop -- ar actually third base in this particular game. he ended up being a great end player. major leagues.s. most people know about jackie t robinson being the first african-american.leagues. you know, two monarchs were theh

third anird fourth. because they signed them the ay. same day. they went to the st. louis browns.th they signed as a third and fourth african-american playerso bullet brown goes out and hits a home run august 13th and he becomes the first blackhe playe to hit a home run in the major leagues. no t n jackie but wilard brown.s of course he never gets back to the major leagues but he did ck play minor league baseball. he had over 400 home runs playing with the negro league teams. i think he had another couple hundred home runs playing in the minor league ball in the texas , league. he alsoand holds the current red for the most home runs hit in a. the puerto rican winter league. this was a good ball player.

so they come. to town with four negro leaguers. to show you how much ability was in the negro leads. they lost. and t they had all of these all of t famers, they lost. itch might also mention bibbs. bibb ss brk bibbs. he went to indiana state. most people know the famous indiana state basketball player. larry bird.was yeah, that's right.of because of his great play at the college and some of work that i was able to do to bring recog recognition to him and people e started to pay attention to hima today he's in the indiana sports hall of fame and also the of fam indiana statee hall of fame as . well. i thought you might want to take a look at a few of these guys. there's turkey sterns. they called him turkey because e of the way he look when he ran.

back then he used to pick really good nicknames. now days if you listen to the baseball games they just shorten up the player's names. back then he would watch what you do and watch how you act. in fact bell, many people remember his name because he got out as a rookie and the wasn't nervousam or anything. there's wilard there for the an monarchs. will you consider the player in the background has an afl lpha not a number. her of course you probably heard this name a few times. john buck o'neil. in 1938 he was playing his first season with the kansas city

monarch.la another interesting thing about this is that baseball players go through different pays t. you will notice these guys have no facial hair.at was that was the face that they were in at that particular time. clean cut kind of look. this is a very young buck o'neie by the way. the firstha african-american toe come into the league playing atl with a mustache was satchel paig page. will you find that he has a on mustache in the 1930s which is p kind ofa rare but once again satchel page was kind of rare himself. in going around and giving talks on the negro leagues and trying to go back to as many cities as i can and talk about various tht games that they played in cities, occasionally you hear something that really summarize

the experience. i heard it and i said that's a great song but you know what, i'm a halfy decent poet.. i adopted it. it goes something like this. my name is bullet rogue an. my name is turkey sterns. prim my name is buck o'neil. mor i'm just one more forgotten face among the black faced teams on an old dark horse that came to t course they called the negro te leagues. he worked the fields in dre tennessee but i dreamed of ys. better days so i left the plow and bag to join the team.all all summer long we played the states and headed south for fall. through rain and dust we rollede the bus l so we could play baseball. wesophde played for love and pr

the hotel bugs, the roads where crowds don't roar. we made due and when came through because damn it, we were pros. we played in the shadow of the i babe, gergig and the rest. we gave them hell with every stayed behind the guys g colored line andet watched thosh guys get rich.or did they see satchel throw his stuff or do you know how bad it is when encloseds aren't good enough. you will find some stars won't shine. some folks were born too soon. mays god bless you all, you wore our numbers on your books when you played big league ball. every time you hit one out, youe carries us from that old bus to

the hauls of cooper town. when you seek out heroes and at raise the great past time, remember those old brown faced pros, thepr stars that it not t shine.h did not shine. [ applse [ applause ] >> with that kconclusion what id like to do is open it up for questions related to the negro leagues. i'd like to thank everybody for coming. i'm heading to junction city tomorrow and believe it or not on sunday i'm in salsberry missouri. i'm having a ball talking baseball and local baseball that doesn't get talked about very much. i'm having fun bringing the history of the kansas city

monarchs and the town ball alive again. >> this has been very interesting. i thank you very much for your presentation. i'm so sorry there aren't more people here to enjoy this and to learn more about the monarchs. i would like to know has there ever been or do you think there will ever be a movie that goes back and delves into the history of monarchs because they were a great inspiration and a foot hold of all the black players in the league today and in fact all sports. that's an excellent question. i'm a person who grew up watching baseball movies and i would say that there's been some attempt tos write a few movies. there was the one called the

soul of the game. it wasn't that great movie. even 42 which was about jackie robinson that came out last year, they have one little part in the front that talks about the kansas city monarchs. you don't see any footage so i kansas city monarchs, i really good movie could be written about the whole black baseball experience. you would need somebody who kind of knew what was going on to write a good movie about it. when i first started doing research on the negro leagues going back to the early 80s. i've seen so many things change. when i first started doing research people said oh, you won't find photographs. of course after i found 600 of them, actually i found close to a thousand. 600 in the book was called?mv3ó negro baseball league's photographic history. nobody believed that you couldn't find pictures anymore.

i killed that whole myth. now i'm also trying to popularize the fact that the monarchs and these teams in the negro leagues played in all of these cities. there's so many great stories that could be told so hopefully i will like to see it in my lifetime as well. >> thank you. i had a coach and teacher who i was in sjunior high who played old days of football. and they got paid if they got in the game. they had to get themselves to the game and had to buy their uniforms. are you aware how they got paid? >> sure if you were playing for the kansas city monarchs so you were playing for the new york yankees of the negro league. he always played his players. i have run into players who say they are waiting from a check that they played in 1928.

that wasn't the case with him. roster as well. players made money playing those teams. that's one of the reasons the monarchs were so successful was because they had players, bull en rogan was there from 1920 from 1938. allen was there from 1922 to 1946. the players came and loved playing for jl wilkonson. they got paid well. they weren't pick up games. if they came there there was going to be a promoter and this promoter knew we were going to get a amount and i got the pay the monarchs 60%. it was pretty tough for some people depending on your owner but he played his players well.

>> this kiwhen you showed a cou shots, one of the records where it looked like you had maybe eight, nine games where they played in a row and also you showed the picture of the town team along with the monarchs, unless i miscounted it looked like there was ten guys so typically how many travels on the team and were they that limited on players. well, i know in 1929 they had to cut their rosters down and they carry 13 players. so you could play over 100 games with 13 players. so you needed a guy like bullet rogan who could play the outfield at the same time he could pitch. so he was like two players in one. so they could carry a smaller roster like that and still play. it just depends. sometimes some of the players might not have gotten ninto the picture but they usually carried

about 15 players. as a matter of fact, that pitcher, it was taken right before a fair. i might mention too when the monarchs were supposed to come here in 1927, it was more some kind of -- it got rained out. i know that they played a lot of fares and events like that which helped to draw people to the fair. a lot of county fares. do you have records given the discrimination of the day about where they would stay during the day. would they sleep on the bus or camp out. were they ever to get accommodati accommodatio accommodations. also eating could be tough. you had to take your mouth. you couldn't pull up at a mcdonald's or some restaurant and go in and get your food.

they had to go around to the back of the building to get their food. wilc wilconson some places wouldn't feed the monarchs could he wouldn't feed them either. he tried to fight for good treatment for his players. if they are out and they are not able to say there, there were a number of rooming houses. there was a lady that i know. she was from south dakota, african-american lady who later moved to kansas city. she said the only black people she saw from outside of her community were musicians, circus people and baseball players but she didn't know anyone else. boarding houses would pick up the slack and some places, they would have, you know, some of the largest cities, they would have black owned hotels. that kind of thing.

this part of the country if they played in, you know -- if they played in say sioux falls south dakota or omaha and they could get back the same day they came back the same day. one thing i might mention, they played almost every single day. so they were on that bus all the time. one last thing i will mention, there was a lady she was married to a ball player who played for the red sox, his name was larry brown. this was mhis wife and i interviewed her and she married him and went with the team on a trip. she was on the bus with a team and she said we were gone for a month and stayed in a hotel two times. so -- >> thank you. most of us know that the first black player that went to the major leagues was not 100% chosen on talent alone. in your research in what you look at, would