slaves were trampling over their mangled and bleeding forms. revenge must have fired every heart and strung every arm with nerves of steel. for the herculean task of blood. mahone gives a rallying speech that amazingly isn't filled with any sort of racially charged language. just before the virginians attack at 9:00 a.m. confederate officer in the 6th virginia, commander actually, wrote, with fixed bayonets and strong double quick they sprung forward from the ravine and rushed the foe, the packed trenches. he admits that the bayonet was used in a way he had never seen used in a war. this was a veteran from 1861. virginians pay a heavy price to capture a few hundred feet of earthworks. the georgians will follow them in, and as a virginian who was

watching recalled, they made two attacks and they fell like autumn leaves. the georgians leave us some of our best accounts of their anger at the sight of armed black men, such as james verderi of the 48th georgia infantry sharing with his dear sister the day after the battle, the prisoners came leaping over our breastworks by 50 but our men took none, for they, he underlined this part, were niggers. burnside's ninth army corps. as fast as they came over, the bayonet was plunged through their hearts. the muzzle of our gun was put on their temple and their brains blown out. others are knocked in the head with the butts of their gun. few would succeed in getting to the rear safe. dorsey binian, also the 48th georgian, someone who ought to know about beating black bodies since he had been over -- he was an overseer before the war began, told his dear sister, mary, just 11 days afterwards, when we got to the works it was filled with negroes and yanks

crying out no quarter. when a hand-to-hand conflict ensued with the breach of our guns and bayonets, and you may depend on it, we did not show much quarter, but slaved them. keep in mind, we're writing to the prim and proper southern women, the scarlett o'haras of the south. they want to know what their men are doing on the battlefield. and now that they're fighting armed black men, they're providing the very details we have put down the slave insurrection out here. alabamians finally get on the field around 1:00 in the afternoon. and it's perhaps during this time that sergeant dorsey of the 39th realized this battle was going to end in federal disaster. he grabbed his unit's flag, ran it across the no man's land filled with confederate artillery fire and planted that flag on top of the union picket line. for that, he will receive a medal of honor.

sanders' alabamians attack along with the remnants of the other confederates on the field at that particular point. confederates are going to eventually -- launching bayoneted weapons over top of the rim of the crater. as they get very close, they put their hats on the tops of their muskets and just ease them over the rim of the crater. the federals fire their last volley, and this hand-to-hand conflict really gets under way. inspiring, an alabamian, william mcclellan, to say that all black soldiers, quote, would have been killed had it not been for general mahone who would beg our men to spare them. one soldier blatantly disobeyed mahone telling the virginian he would kill another and deliberately took out his pocket knife and cut one's throat. they bashed the heads of the negro skulls, the north carolinians said, like egg

shells. and when the black troops cried out that they wanted quarter, the response was, no quarter this morning, no quarter now. amazingly, people like oliver scott made it off the battlefield. then only 27 years old, when he left slavery and enlisted in the 30th u.s. color troops, promoted to corporal. during the battle, he's wounded. tried to make that arrow there so folks all the way in the back could see. he's shot in the hip. the bullet exited his butt. what's interesting to me about this photo is scott must have obeyed the rules of whoever his owner was. there's no sign of whip marks across his back. that desire to be free was so great that he had served. he's lucky that he manages to get off the field at all because the bullet is only going to pass three inches from his spinal

column. another former slave of maryland, george carr, 20 years old, is going to be wounded this day. entering his right leg, second bullet entering the middle third of the inside of the leg and passed through. free-born charles harris in the 31st u.s. color troops, native of new york, hit by a ball in the back of the right leg which passed through the tibia and fibula and exited that leg that hit the left foot, causing compound fractures. as the confederates went about killing union troops, especially those of african descent, white union troops realized how angry the southerners were, and so as william taylor of the 100th pennsylvanian wrote the day after the battle, and as george kilmer remembered many years after the battle, white union troops will start killing black

union troops as they readily admit in an effort to preserve white people's lives. the battle finally ends about 2:30 in the afternoon. battle's aftermath, going to be a court of inquiry. general meade picks who's on the court of inquiry. if you want details we can discuss later. more or less the blame will be heaped up on burnside. there's going to be some blame for james ledlie and edward ferrero who were drinking together during the battle. ferrero is going to more or less be slapped on the wrist. ledlie goes home on a furlough, never returns. burnside goes home on a furlough, never returns. grant calls this the saddest affair i have ever witnessed. federal casualties will be around 3,800 and u.s. color troops are going to suffer 219 killed, 957 wounded.

and somewhere around 410 who are either captured or go missing. the scene here represents the flag of truce that will finally happen on august 1st. burnside, who everyone likes to beat up as the civil war's idiot general, calls for a flag of truce a half an hour after the battle ends on july 30th. meade wants him to arrange a localized truce. he doesn't want to admit defeat and just leave and get the wounded off the field even though it's 100-plus degrees. so they lay out there july 30th and all day on july 31st, and finally they're picked up on the morning of august 1st. by that point, one of meade's staff members admits that he couldn't tell who was naturally african or european except from the texture of their hair. apparently not accounting for those bodies out there of mixed race black people. in the in between of this, henry

byrd, a native of petersburg, wrote his fiancee as the men cried out nearby to the confederate line for water, the response from the confederates was -- [ speaking french ] if you're not a french student. it was drink your blood, you'll have no more thirst, and they bayoneted the men that were nearby. news of the battle traveled, perhaps from our civilian perspective, of course we got to have an edmond ruffin reference. he said black troops were charging and shrieking, remember ft. pillow and wrote about the great slaughter. he was infuriated to learn that mahone had stopped his men from killing black and white troops, saying, mahone could not persist in this policy and he ordered the lives of all remaining to be spared. this is much to be regretted. even more angry is like the

female version of edmund ruffin. catherine edmondston writing just four days after the battle, and it helps to illustrate our perception of southern ladies is too scarlett o'hara infused, i still think, and not enough of catherine edmondston. the negro troops rushed into our line shouting, no quarter, remember ft. pillow, she wrote. they were met by such determination by their old masters and granted to the full what they so earnestly clamored for that in spite of the yankee bayonets behind them they turned and ran. then she got this dubious story about somebody who was in the usct ranks who sees his old mississippi master. problem is there are no mississippi troops here. anyway, and wanted immediately to become his slave again. it follows, unlikely that event actually happens, mrs.

edmondston talks about the truth. few of his companions were left to tell the tale of their encounter. northern newspapers respond often with their biases. "new york herald" prints states like, cowardice of the niggers. the second the author stated that the niggers set down their weapons and refused to obey orders and praised the white troops for being honorable, brave, and courageous, and if it wasn't for the, quote, niggers, they would have won the battle. others amazingly do turn to not being so critical, including actually general meade, of course, burnside, ferrero, officers who were actually on the field unlike ferrero, and garland white, a chaplain in the 28th usct who wrote, none of our troops, white or colored, are responsible for the actions of the generals. i hold that there can be no higher sin in all the world than to blame innocent people for consequences for which they are not responsible. i care not who it is, whether

king or subject, general or private. it makes no difference with me in a point of the position of truth. i want to get to the prisoners and leave time for questions. the federal prisoners, white and black, union troops, are going to be marched through the city of petersburg at 8:00 in the morning on the day after the battle. petersburgers turned out in their finest garments, and lieutenant freeman bowley remembered women in the city asking the confederates, why didn't you kill all the yankee wretches? they're being marched, two white, two black, two white, two black, until you run out of black troops. the generals that had been captured, the highest ranking officers at the front of the ban. a 9-year-old girl at the time, recalling years later, i remember swinging on the gate as they brought the prisoners up hyde street. i hollered, kill them everyone. 9 years old. remember that.

her mother told her, come into this house or they'll be killing you. captain beacham of the 23rd gave us a really good comment about it. the prisoners formed in columns by force consisting of alternate files of colored soldiers and commissioned officers. highest rank, as i said, going on down. as there were about 500 colored prisoners and about 1,100 white officers and soldiers, the greater part of the column presented a fantastic and variegated appearance that i am free to confess was amusing. many white troops sent to prisoner of war camps including at andersonville, but captain beacham and lieutenant bowley who survived their prison experiences won't be going to, you know, the more famous places. beacham spends four months in jail in columbia, south carolina, where he admits that they actually were decently treated in columbia as they had not been in petersburg. black troops, however, won't get the same sort of treatment.

and this representation of shockoe bottom in richmond will be important in a moment. interesting story i found -- we'll talk more about this if you want to. john haskel, confederate artillerist, out there, has mortars launching shells during the battle, found some black wounded troops. he told his personal slave to go get the other camp slaves and get those men to a hospital, where his body servant stands up to his owner and said, i'd rather die than move those men. none of the other camp negroes, as haskel calls them, wants to move them, either, so he finally gets a southern doctor who sends them to this hospital whereby the following day after the battle, the physician in charge, john claiborne, finds 150 wounded black soldiers who were, as he wrote, naked with every conceivable form of wounds and mutilation. my first thought, is this

christian civilization? after threatening to send some captured federal surgeons to andersonville, they joined in treating the black troops, which may suggest a preview to eric's talk in a moment about andersonville. among those captured is peter churchwell, former slave who escaped, served in the 23rd usct and is captured. he's sent to danville where he recalled years later, i was kept until my master, old master, rather, heard i was in prison. he came there and claimed me as a slave and sold me to a slave dealer at richmond. and he sold me to a slave dealer who took me to wilmington, north carolina. and he then sold me to patrick murphy, who took me on his farm near raleigh. most of our black p.o.w.s are going to be returned to slavery, including right here in the heart of virginia's slave trading district, shockoe bottom in richmond, virginia.

and where the purple arrow is marked is where one of the petersburg region's former slave turned soldier robert banks will go to the dealers, dickinson, hill & company and be kept there until the war ends. so i'll stop there because i'm out of slides. and i'll let you ask questions. [ applause ] start over here. >> except for their -- my name is jeff smith. i'm from mechanicsburg, pennsylvania. i'm curious, except for their last-minute interference, it seems like meade and grant really deferred to burnside in the operations. after this disaster, there's, you know, 15,000 union troops involved in this operation. did any of this kind of land in their lap to any extent the

responsibility for deferring such an important operation to, you know, burnside? >> not particularly. of course, as meade calls the court of inquiry, he's decided who's going to be on the court, and there are people who don't like burnside, from the battle of fredericksburg in 1862 and the mud march in 1863, so they already have a negative opinion of burnside. he's the civil war's worst general. and meade's recorder is one of his own inspector general from his staff. so none of them are going to say, meade, you're to blame, or grant, you're to blame. they heap the blame on burnside and rightfully with ledlie and ferrero. yes, sir? >> in the film version of the battle, in the movie they made of cold mountain, it's depicted of all the troops black and white kind of pouring into the crater, being trapped there.

that's been told in other stories, too. is there any truth to that, or was that really a problem that people went into the crater and couldn't get out, or is that just a legend? >> in case people didn't hear, question is did troops, white and black, rush through the crater into the hole itself? it is partially true. ledlie's advance men do, as they move up, run into the crater. partly because they go in to rescue confederate trapped folks, provide prayer and water to those who were dying. they said they couldn't ignore their rebel adversary, and of course some of their greatest pain in the last minutes of their life. but much of the union troops are going to be pushed because the hole is only 170 feet long. they're going to be pushed on either side of it and somewhat beyond the hole, but not beyond the extra trench that had been created. the cavalier trench.

so this is a moment of come to the battlefield. you'll get the sense of how that kind of happened. >> i want to confirm what i thought i heard you say is toward the back -- the last part of the battle that the union, white union troops saw the confederates killing the blacks and the white union troops then started killing the blacks also? >> you are correct. white union troops start killing black union troops in an effort as they write very specifically in an effort to preserve white men's lives. >> thank you. >> yep. >> it's my understanding that originally black troops were going to lead the attack and they were trained for it. and then -- and then either grant said no, no, no, we can't use blacks. and then troops -- and then ledlie's troops were used and

they weren't trained. was it because -- so soon that they didn't have time, or i guess what i'm asking is there any way that the troops that did lead the attack came through the crater could have been better trained? >> yeah, the question is, could the white troops that were leading the attack eventually have been better prepared? the answer is no because we make these last-minute changes on july 29th and the battle is the next morning right at dawn. so there's no prep time. what's my time? okay. >> david rosen from alexandria, virginia. against the background of these circumstances, and what you've described, a little bit of humaneness compels the tension. i wonder if you could tell us something about mahone. >> yes. i'm not sure all you want to know, but i'll start with a

brief biography. mahone is a native of southampton county, virginia, which he is growing up in the era of the imagery of the slave insurrection of 1832. graduates from virginia military institute. enlists at the beginning of the war. not anything superb as brigade commander, but somehow really knows how to handle a division, so his troops absolutely shoot james longstreet near where jackson's mortal wound had been. richard anderson is moved up to first corps command. mahone is moved up to division command. and right after this battle, lee praises his ability to recapture the lines and he's promoted to major general. so he'll remain division commander until the surrender. >> what about the -- his showing of humaneness? >> oh, yes. so, yes -- you know, several people comment on this. he, you know, stops his soldiers from killing blacks as best as

he can, and obviously he can't stop them all even when they're right in front of him. mahone is a slave owner. he doesn't believe in equality at the beginning of the war or even perhaps when it ends, yet he has this miraculous sort of desire to become politician. he creates and sustains virginia's first biracial political party, the re-adjusters in the post-war years. and really sort of attempts to cater to blacks. even at one point admits that slavery was wrong and he shouldn't have owned slaves, but, of course, you know, i'm sure they're all sort of political points he's trying to reach at that point. i don't know what it all says that mahone is trying to stop it. insurgents saying is this christian civilization? i think in our own culture, is this christian civilization to use drones, drop bombs, blow up civilians? i don't know. i don't know what it says about him. >> mr. dabney, i thought particularly poignant of your

comments about the murderous nature of the racism among white southern women. i have long thought that "gone with the wind" is a very damaging film. i view it as a propaganda film. not necessarily all that different than the nazi propaganda films made during that exact same era of the '30s. my question to you is, do you agree with my assessment of "gone with the wind" or do you disagree, and why? >> oh, brother. or as scarlett would say, fiddly-diddly-dee. actually, there's something culturally impactful about "gone with the wind" that's still with us today, and i wouldn't go so far as to compare it to nazi propaganda films, having watched one that was 20 minutes and took me 2 days to make it through.

i can sit and watch "gone with the wind" and make all sorts of jokes as i watch it. but, i mean, it does say something about 1939, the lost causes, entrenchment to having now film production. and the hopeful perpetuation of the racial divide in the country. and, of course, it was very popular, so most people north, south, east coast, west coast, middle of the country, liked this movie based on ticket sales and the continued popularity of margaret mitchell's book. one more. oh. okay. keep going. oh, sorry. you, sir. >> question. we have this explosion that takes place and you have the bottom of a hole and the top of the hole. what provision, if any, was made by the union to get from the bottom of the hole to the top of the hole so you can invade the confederate lines? >> no provision made for the troops to get out of the crater

once they're in it. and it's difficult to tell in numbers, craters are very hard. you have these lovely little battle maps here at gettysburg that shows this regiment, this place at 10:00 a.m. and 10:15, at 10:30. we don't have that with the crater because people are just too mingled up, all sense of cohesion of a battlefront is lost on both sides, north and south. and so it's unclear how many people are stuck in the crater. they're stuck in there well enough for one survivor to say that the men who were dead couldn't fall and the living were squirming beneath their feet and blood is running into the tops of their shoes. so i don't know how many that is, but most people on the outside trying to move forward but the problem is they didn't know that these honeycombed bombproofs were behind the battery, nor did they know

there's a whole other line of confederate earthworks there or that the confederates have just right positioned their artillery to have this enfilading fire, crossfire directly into what had been elliot's salient. they thought they knew were all cannon were. >> disclaimer. this may be a controversial question. >> yes. >> when the black soldiers were captured and they were going to be sent to prison camps, how come confederates didn't re-slave them since they were considered property and there was a proclamation about a year or two years ago before the crater saying any black soldier who -- any black who becomes a soldier in the u.s. army will be shot and will be killed. or i also think also re-enslave. how come that policy didn't happen in '64? even though we had the

emancipation proclamation. was that also a factor to it? >> so most of our crater black troops are not going to p.o.w. camps. so far i found four who go to salisbury and die there. most are going to be sent to richmond and danville where advertisements are placed in the newspaper, come look for your runaway slaves and, of course, people come and look for them and take them back into their ownership. some people don't come looking because they don't live in virginia. they're maryland runaways or delaware slaves. of course, there are free blacks from the north who have enlisted. so they'll be kept in these slave pens right down here in shockoe bottom. and they'll be there if they survive until the war ends. some of these people rejoin their regiments and they go from

missing in action to, you know, what happened to you? so we get the details of what happened to them. not very great details but at least, you know, which slave pen they may have been held in. and as far as why the confederates don't actually implement their may 1863 law, it's the law, i think people forget this. white officers had to be executed if they're found leading black men to combat, and blacks when captured, which already suggests you don't really need to take them prisoner, are going to be turned over to the state authority in whichever state they've been captured in and dealt with as if they were leading a slave insurrection. it's just easier to kill them. as seen at poison spring, as seen at ft. pillow. as seen for many at crater. as will be seen in other battles during the war. thanks. >> this is a lesson learned question. during meade's conversation with grant, and grant being the commanding officer at vicksburg,

and during the vicksburg siege there was another mine attempt there as well. didn't succeed. in your research, is there any conversation that has been recorded where grant reflects back to vicksburg and said, you know, we tried it there, didn't work, maybe we should not try here. just as a lessons learned. because, again, one of the big things all militaries do, you capture your lessons learned, try not to repeat mistakes. >> i spoke with terry when he was still at vicksburg. i can't find any evidence of grant saying anything about this vicksburg mine that was a disaster. when the petersburg mine came around. because he's not overly enthusiastic about it, i think in the back of his mind he's, this might work and it might not work and whatever. but i don't get any real sense he's really reflective about it.

yes? >> you mentioned several times about the additional fortifications built behind the salient that the union was not aware of. one of the new technologies that arrived in the civil war was balloon observations. were there any balloons that they might have used to observe? >> no, no balloon use in 1864-65 by the federals or the confederates for that matter. pete has a question. so robert e. lee is his question. can we hold robert e. lee accountable for the killing of u.s. colored troops after they stop the battle? lee is very near the battlefield the whole time, less than a quarter mile away. right behind the busted hole in the confederate line with general beauregard.

they come out onto the field for an unreally clear amount of time after the battle. it's my observation that lee and beauregard must have seen some of this killing. what i do hold them accountable for, and grant and meade, is that they leave their wounded, the federal wounded out there on the battlefield in the 100-plus degree heat because meade doesn't want to admit defeat. and it's preposterous to leave these people out there bleeding, crying out in agony. by the time they have been recovered, the other comment meade staff officer says is that the bodies are so black from the sun, they're bursting now. also white because maggots are eating their flesh. all of that could have been avoided if the letter that meade did write, he had just immediately sent it over to the confederates. and so there's all sort of

intricacies, if you want to talk about more, we can, of where the letter is going and how we're going to arrange the flag of truce and it takes almost a day and a half, almost two days. it's really disgusting. i always say to those people, these men are not heroes. i guess that's it. thank you. [ applause ] with congress on recess, during this month, american history tv airs throughout the week here on c-span3. coming up live this afternoon, author anthony pitch will detail his book "the burning of washington" in which he describes how british military forces 200 years ago this week set the white house and u.s. capitol on fire after making their way into the nation's capitol. hosted by the smithsonian associates, you can see it live today starting at 6:45 p.m. eastern, again, on c-span3.

coming up tonight, a look at the civil war's atlantic campaign in may of 1864. union general william sherman marched into georgia with a goal of capturing atlanta. after a series of battles and a siege of the city atlanta fell to the union on september 2nd, 1864. we'll hear about general sherman's march to the sea through georgia and joseph e. johnston who led the confederates during the spring and summer of 1864. also, a look at confederate weapons manufacturing in central georgia during after after the fall. that's all coming up tonight at 8:15 p.m. eastern on c-span3. >> next on the civil war, author kevin levin discusses the role of the u.s. colored troops in the civil war's battle of the crater and the way their contributions were remembered in the years following the civil war. organized by petersburg national battlefield, this is an hour and ten minutes.

>> i'm chris bryce, chief of interpretation with petersburg national battlefield. for those of you who have been with us for the last couple of days, commemorating the 150th anniversary of the battle of the crater, thank you, and welcome to those who have not attended until our program this evening. i do want to, before we get started, just some thank yous, specifically for st. paul's church for allowing us this wonderful venue for our programs earlier today and for the one we're about to have here this evening. i would like to thank the rector of the church, rick greenwood. i would also like to thank this evening the senior warden of the church, steven tuck, and steven is in the back, so give him a round of applause because he's keeping this open for us tonight. but again, it's one of the things we try to do with the programs that we've been offering, especially today, and i don't think we could have had

better venues being indoors today with the weather, but we were at guilfoyle baptist and i see, mr. powell, you're here this evening. and we appreciate the courtesy we were given this morning with your congregation and here tonight at st. paul. we chose these two locations because they were congregations that were in existence at the time of the civil war when these events were actually happening. in the case of st. paul's where we are this evening, the congregation has origins back to 1643, so to the early stages of virginia's history, when we're still emerging as a colony and getting our feet under ourselves here. but the current church where we are today was built between 1855 and 1857. it did bear witness to the events here 150 years ago, a

9 1/2-month siege of petersburg most likely was under fire as were a number of buildings here in petersburg. during the course of the siege, a number of confederate officers worshipped here. robert e. lee, george pickett, a.p. hill, among some of them. e.p. alexander, who was chief of artillery for james longstreet. lee's pew, i believe -- the rector said this morning, someone held their hand up. the third one back. there's actually a plaque recognizing that. if you want to get pictures of that, certainly feel free to do so. without further delay, i would like to introduce our speaker tonight, mr. kevin levin. he completed a master in history at the university of richmond. his thesis became the basis of his most current book, "remembering the battle of the crater, war's murder" which was published in 2012.

he's currently an instructor of american history at gann academy near boston. and fortunately, kevin in his day-to-day work, gets to challenge his students to conduct original research, critically evaluate historical sources, and analyze historical events. in addition to his book, he has written several essays for "the new york times" and "the atlantic" as well as popular magazines and a number of academic journals. you can follow him, follow his thoughts on many other issues related to the american civil war and how the four-year conflict was and continues to be remembered by following his award-winning blog called the civil war memory. it's my pleasure this evening to introduce to you kevin levin. [ applause ] >> good evening, everyone.

before i get started, i also want to thank st. paul's church for opening its doors tonight. i can't think of a better venue for this particular program, so thank you. i especially want to thank the national park service for inviting me down to just be a part of the 150th of the crater. from about 2000 to 2011, i lived in charlottesville, virginia. i taught, i spent most of my time writing and thinking about the american civil war. i researched and wrote just about all of the book in charlottesville. and then in 2011, i didn't anticipate this, but my wife and i ended up moving to boston. and, of course, those of you who visit boston know that bostonians tend to focus on that other event in american history, right? the american revolution. and that's okay. i can deal with that, but my heart -- my interests continue to be in the 1860s.

and so over the last few years, it hasn't been easy because all of these commemorative events have been going on in virginia and elsewhere. i kind of felt like an outsider. so to be invited back for this particular event for me is a huge honor. so thanks. i appreciate it, and thank you all for coming out tonight. so before i get started, i just want to make one point clear, that i am going to -- i'm not going to censor the words of the historical actors, if you will, that i reference tonight. and i do think it's important that we learn to sort of come to terms with the language, the world that they lived in. so with that said, i'm going to get started. a little over a year ago, much of our nation's attention was focused on gettysburg for the 150th anniversary of the battle. tens of thousands traveled to the famous town to walk the

fields and connect with our civil war past. there is indeed something magical about that place. it's a battle that is full of drama and easily excites the imagination. we follow the two armies to the point of their initial contact on july 1st, 1863. just west of the city. and painstakingly trace their movements and bloody fighting during the following two days. visitors and civil war enthusiasts alike look for the moment on which the outcome of the battle depended. it was yule at the end of the first day where longstreet on the second or perhaps, as george pickett later suggested, the yankee army had something to do with it. a year later, and while americans continue to flock to gettysburg, enthusiasm for the war in 1864 has diminished. this shouldn't surprise us. the battles that raged across virginia beginning in early may 1864 that eventually stretched

from the rappahannock to the appomattox river here in petersburg fail to excite in the way that battles from the first half of the war do. armies no longer march long distances to engage one another in what could be decisive battles. gone are the daring maneuvers orchestrated by stonewell jackson at second bull run and chancellorsville where jeb stewart's famouse ride around mcclellan. we yearn for the open fields of manassas, antietam and fredericksburg where for our vantage point, war almost seems more civilized compared to what is to come. in sharp contrast, battlefields at the wilderness, spotsylvania courthouse and cold harbor lock the two armies together on confusing landscapes mired in blood, day in and day out, with mounting casualty lists and no end in sight. there are plenty of acts of bravery to recount on both sides and the rank and file largely remain committed to their

respective causes. but 150 years later, it is difficult to find meaning in the midst of such blood letting. and then there is the petersburg campaign. for most people, the nine-month campaign can be reduced to a few photographs of miles of earthworks filled with begrimed veteran soldiers doing their best to stay out of the view of snipers and awaiting the next order to charge in what for many are still a series of nameless battles that stretch to early april 1865. the one exception to this admittedly narrow view of the campaign is the battle of the crater. which took place just east of the city 150 years ago on july 30, 1864. i suspect that for many visitors, the 150th anniversary of the petersburg campaign will begin and end with this commemoration. but there are any number of aspects of this battle that are

worth recalling from the challenges associated with the construction of the mine to the early morning explosion of 8,000 pounds of course blasting powder. the explosion was clearly seen by those in the immediate vicinity and felt for miles around. the war ended in the most violent way for roughly 300 men in steven elliot's south carolina brigade who were positioned directly atop the mine. i shall never forget the terrible and magnificent sight, charles helton recalled. the earth around us trembled and heaved so violently that i was lifted to my feet, and then the earth around the enemy's line opened and fire and smoke shot upwards 75 or 100 feet. the intensity of the violence over the course of about eight hours and the confusion caused by the dramatic disturbance to the landscape itself created an other worldly scene that was unlike any previous battle. in the initial union charge,

soldiers gazed at the destruction wrought by the mine and many found that the better angels of their nature and proceeded to dig out half-buried confederates and tend to the wounded. the charge of general ambrose burnside's 9th corps, including four divisions, one made up entirely of united states color troops, was poorly executed and while not doomed to failure, it certainly quickly unwound. the timely arrival of confederate brigadier general william mahone's division, including a brigade made up of virginias raised in part in the petersburg area, helped to secure victory by early afternoon. by then, hundreds of dead and wounded lay in an area not more than 150 yards long and 100 yards wide. confederate colonel william h. stewart described the crater as, quote, a veritable inferno filled with sounds of suffering

and paved with the rigid dead. a delay in agreeing to a truce left survivors abandoned on a field that hovered around 100 degrees. the official report identified 361 confederates killed, 727 wounded and 403 missing out of the force of roughly 10,000 engaged. union casualties numbered 504 killed, 1,881 wounded and 1,441 missing. compared to other civil war battles the casualty count is relatively small. but if we look more closely, we can begin to discern what for many of the participants was the defining feature of this battle. of all union casualties, 41% belonged to the two color brigades of brigadier edward ferrero's fourth division even

though they constituted only 21% of the men engaged. how union and confederates responded to one another at the crater and how they remembered the battle after the war was shaped directly by the presence of a large number of armed african-americans in uniform. the racial element of this battle has always held the most interest for me. in my mind, it best reflects the hard turn that the war had taken by 1864. even as it continues to beguile and divide americans who are committed to remembering and commemorating the civil war. the history and memory the crater offers little for those looking for -- looking to remember the sanitized war where brave americans fought one another without any concern for its cause and consequences. to understand the crater and its legacy, we need to put aside convenient labels that oversimplify historical memory

and even dare to push past the national park services preferred narrative framework of from civil war to civil rights. to grasp the larger aspect and full racial complexity of this battle. the stories that emerge from the crater challenge us to look at the toughest issues related to the war. to even begin to approach them, we need to allow ourselves to feel just a little uncomfortable and listen to all accounts, including those that use harsh language reflecting the racial divide of the time. the presence of uscts on the crater battlefield signaled a dramatic shift in the goals and policies of the lincoln administration. by the summer of 1862, president abraham lincoln turned to a limited plan of emancipation and recruitment of black soldiers as a means to saving the union. despite the deeply engrained racism that was in the ranks and

society, tens of thousands of formerly enslaved blacks embraced the opportunity to enlist and fight for their freedom, as well as family members still held in bondage. military service offered black men the opportunity to prove their manhood and the possibility of securing political and civil rights in a reconstructed union. even after learning that burnside's original plan which called for the fourth division to lead the union attack, had been changed, the men under ferrero's command anticipated that the next assault would be proof enough of their bravery. by the time they received their orders on the morning of july 30th, the battle had been raging for close to three hours. three union divisions were already crammed into the crater as well as the complex maze of confederate traverses and earthworks. little progress had been made as south carolinians who survived the initial explosion along with north carolinians and virginians

stubbornly held to their positions. the first indication of the presence of black troops on the battlefield was their battle cry of no quarter. and remember ft. pillow. a reference to the recent massacre of black troops at ft. pillow, tennessee. the two brigades of ferrero's division wound their way over open ground and did their best to steer clear of the maelstrom inside the crater. a few units along with scattered white units were successful in maneuvering into positions beyond the crater and stood poised for a possible assault on blanford heights overlooking petersburg. the arrival on the field of mahone's confederate division not only prevented a breakthrough but added to the chaos and confusion already present. for many confederates, this was their first experience fighting black union soldiers. quote, it had the same affect upon our men that a red flag had

upon a mad bull, was the way one south carolinians who survived the initial explosion, described the reaction of his comrades. david holt of the 16th mississippi remembered, quote, they were the first we had seen and the sight of a nigger in a blue uniform and with a gun was more than johnny red could stand. fury had taken possession of me, and i knew that i felt as ugly as they looked. the vivid descriptions left by confederates in their diaries and letters suggest that this killing was of a different kind given the nature of the enemy. both the horror of battle and the rage experience of having to fight black soldiers must have been apparent to the mother of one soldier as she learned that her son, quote, shot them down until we got mean enough and then rammed them through with the bayonet. such detail allowed those on the home front to experience this new danger at a comfortable distance. the communication of these violent encounters reinforced

the connection between the battlefield and home front and provided soldiers, slaveholders and nonslaveholders alike, with a clear understanding of the dangers from which they were now and nonslave holders alike, with a clear understanding of the dangers from which they were now defending their families. the fact that the battle occurred while defending a large civilian population also made it easier for family members and others more removed from the scene of the fighting to imagine the consequences of a union victory that now included black soldiers. once the salient was retaken, confederate rage was difficult to bring under control. confederates wrote freely about taking part in the execution of surrendered black soldiers and in admitting their own involvement in these incidents. jerome yates recalled, quote, most of the negroes were killed after the battle. some was killed after they were taken to the rear.

james vanderly described it as, quote, a truly bloody site, a perfect massacre, nearly a black flag fight. i had been hoping that the enemy would bring some negroes against this army, and now that they had, wrote william, i am convinced that it has a splendid effect on our men. peagram concluded that, quote, though it seems cruel to murder them in cold blood, the men who did it had very good cause for doing so. years after the war, edward porter alexander remembered a quote, the general feeling of the men towards their employment, black soldiers, was very bitter. the sympathy of the north for john brown's memory was taken for proof, according to alexander, of a desire that our slaves should rise in a servile insurrection and massacre throughout the south and the enlistment of negro troops was

regarded as advertisement of that desire and encouragement of the idea true to negro. it is estimated that upwards of 200 black union soldiers may have been massacred during and especially after the battle. confederate accounts make it clear that they did not consider black men to be soldiers. indeed, the scale of violence accorded to black soldiers nears the swift response against slave rebellions, both real and imagined, that stretched back to the antibellum period. a few days after the battle, the richmond examiner published the following editorial, we begged him, mahone, hereafter, when negroes are sent forward to murder the wounded and come shouting no quarter, shut your eyes, general, strengthen your stomach with a little brandy and water, and let the work which god has entrusted to you and your brave men go forward to its full completion. that is, until every negro has

been slaughtered. make every salient you're called upon to defend a ft. pillow. butcher every negro that grant sends against your brave troops and permit them not to soil their hands with the capture of a single hero. for the confederate rank and file, present on the battlefield that hot july day, as well as their loved ones back home, the introduction of black troops clarified just what was at stake in this war. the end of slavery and white supremacy. the presence of black troops at the crater did not escape the attention of their white comrades. the men of the 4th division proved to be convenient scapegoats as they were singled out by their white comrades for the army's defeat. they were easy targets for the obvious reasons related to race, but they were also clearly observed by many to have fallen back in confusion following

mahone's counterattack. quote, the colored troops, according to edward wittman, had become panic stricken, dropped their arms and fled without dealing a blow. a soldier in the 117th new york recalled, quote, the rebs gave one volley and a yell, and such a skedaddle you never heard of. a pennsylvania soldier simply noted, the devil himself could not have checked them. the vast majority of accounts that pinpoint defeat at the feet of retreating black men failed to mention the confederate attack also sent just as many if not more whites in full stampede. the collapse of all of the 4th division alone would have been sufficient to attract the attention of those looking to isolate blame for their defeat on july 30th, but the well-placed white soldiers in a situation that they had never before faced on a virginia battlefield. the scattered white and black units that collapsed in the face

of mahone's countercharge fell back on positions held by their own men. these men who were desperately trying to hold their own positions now found themselves being stampeded by black and white comrades with incensed, enraged confederates in close pursuit. they responded by trying to slow down the retreating soldiers with their weapons. edward cook of the 100 new york infantry freely admitted that, quote, white troops fired into the retreating niggers, an officer in the 4th new hampshire used his saber freely on the cowards. others recalled having to, quote, fix bayonets to stop them. this was a desperate moment for the men of the 4th division, but for the other three divisions, there was now the added element of an enraged enemy that was likely to treat them as accomplices in inciting former slaves to servile insurrection.

writing for "century" magazine in the 1980s, george kilmer noted, quote, it has been positively asserted white men bayonetted blacks who fell back in the order. the retreated blacks, according to alonzo rich of the 36th massachusetts, quote, mixed them up so that they, the confederates, didn't show white men any mercy at all. a few days after the battle, charles j. mills of the 56th massachusetts, spoke for many when he confided to his mother, quote, they cannot be trusted for anything, and are, in short, a hideous mistake, i fear. he of course was referring to the black division. the three white divisions had spent the morning holding precariously to earthworks in and around the crater, but now their black comrades had unintentionally placed them in an even more desperate spot. relatively few called for the end of the enlistment of black

soldiers into the army, but the experience of fighting in close quarters reinforced the belief that if blacks were going to be used militarily, they should do so independently of whites to avoid the kinds of problems experienced at the crater. the men of the 4th division also succumbed to the vortex of racial anger that swirled through the crater and adjacent works. their charge was animated by the goals of freedom, the promise of a reunited nation and civil rights, but their battle cry of remember ft. pillow also reflected a dark underbelly of revenge for the murder of their comrades, and their understanding of what would likely happen in the event of their capture. earlier, on june 15th, 1864, colored troops in brigadier general edward hinks' division successfully stormed a line of earthworks outside of petersburg. the assault received a great

deal of attention in the press and in the ranks as well. but alongside praise of their battlefield prowess, stories of the execution of prisoners spread. "the "republican tribune" headed its dispatch, the assault on petersburg, valor of the colored troops, they take no prisoners and leave no wounded. the commander of the 30th usct informed his family that the black soldiers fought splendidly and took no prisoners. one white soldier noted that the reds were shown no mercy. i saw some of them today, wrote another soldier. they said the white folks took some prisoners but they did not. while much more limited in scope compared to what they faced at the hands of confederates, this violence continued at the crater. lieutenant richard gozny of the 28th usct recalled that black soldiers went into the battle

at the crater not expecting any quarter nor intending to get any. one soldier claimed that a confederate prisoner was killed by a black soldier with a bayonet and in agony, in an agony of frenzy. the reverberations of this battle echoed throughout the post-war years. very few americans in 1860 anticipated that in a few short years, 4 million slaves would be freed. americans struggled to come to terms with the meaning of the war, the end of slavery, and the role that blacks played -- the role that -- sorry. and the role that blacks played in the preservation of the union and emancipation through armed service. memory of the crater and its racial violence remained a particularly thorny problem for the black and white residents of petersburg and the nation at large. the veterans of mahone's virginia brigade, many of whom were from the petersburg area, continued to meet on the crater battlefield to remember fallen

comrades, the cause for which they fought, and assure one another through the early years of defeat and an uncertain future. for william mahone, petersburg's most prominent citizen up until his death in 1895, memory of the crater proved to be beneficial to his rise at a railroad magnate, but it cost him in dearly when in 1879, he organized the most successful biracial political party in virginia's history. for four years, mahone's readjuster party governed the state and witnessed a dramatic rise in black political power throughout the commonwealth. black and white readjusters abolished the whipping post, poll tax, which had been used to disfranchise black voters. the largest number of black virginians attended public schools for the first time with

black teachers at the head of the class. african-americans could be found in the treasury department, pensions bureau, and other state offices. reconstruction came to virginia, not at the hands of meddling yankees but as the result of the actions of one of their own, and mahone paid a hefty price for it. former virginia comrades who fought with mahone at the crater, including david wisager, turned on their former commander, comparing him to john brown and benedict arnold. his detractors questioned whether he was even present at the crater or gave the order for the charge that many believe saved the day for the confederate army. the irony of all of this was not lost on prominent black readjuster and petersburg resident robert a. paul. they who had fought on the field of blood and labored in the arena of politics to deprive the

colored man of his constitutional rights now proclaimed that colored men should enjoy the full rights and prerogatives of citizens. petersburg's black community held tight to a memory of the war that placed emancipation and black military service at its center. black militia companies readily took part in public parades to mark the anniversary of lincoln's emancipation proclamation on january 1st and independence day on july 4th. such occasions offered ample opportunity to remind the community to remember the bravery of black soldiers during the haitian revolt as well as their role in such civil war battles as ft. wagner and the crater. one local politician implored the militia and the rest of petersburg to reject the commonly held belief that they had no military tradition. quote, it makes my blood boil to hear people say that the colored man cannot fight.

an editorial in the petersburg lancet urged its readers to quote, never cease to praise the valor of their sacred dead and create monuments in their honor, owe in gratitude, and shame on the colored people of the united states who show such little appreciation for the valor of negro soldiers who died for the preservation of the union. the editorial exhorted its readers to support a monument to the black heroes, quote, who leaped over the fortifications at petersburg with their muskets in our defense and suffered their bodies as it were to become breastworks while pouring out their blood most freely and willingly for our redemption from bondage. the opportunity to commemorate the military service of black americans and sacrifice anywhere in petersburg and specifically at the crater was lost by the early 20th century. white virginians exercised tight control over public memory of the crater through monument dedications, reunion ceremonies

and post importantly, re-enactments or as they called them, sham battles. on november 6th, 1903, 20,000 people attended a re-enactment involving the still living veterans of mahone's virginia brigade. the veterans marched through the streets of petersburg and put on a show for an audience that now included the children and grandchildren of the civil war generation. one of the attendees was a young douglas freeman who committed himself to telling their stories. there is no evidence that any african-americans attended this event, though the symbol of the loyal and faithful slave was well represented in the form of stonewall jackson's personal servient who led the parade of veterans through the streets. a larger re-enactment in 1937 numbering upwards of 50,000 people, imagine that, 50,000 people at the crater

imagine that, over at the battlefield. 50,000 people marked the crater battlefield's inclusion into the national park service. as was the case in 1903, the ceremony highlighted the bravery of mahone's virginians but made very little effort to acknowledge the presence of united states colored troops. the success of jim crow legislation in virginia was clearly discerned in the absence of any serious attention to the presence of black soldiers and it is likely that very few if any local african-americans attended. the black community's inability to contribute to memory was enhanced by a narrative that celebrated a war of brave northerns and southerners without any reference to slavery, emancipation, and black military service.

this whites only narrative maintained a stubborn hold on america's collective memory through the 1970s. the first cracks appeared in the early '60s in the inevitable conflict between the racial strife of the civil rights movement and the civil war centennial celebration that ought to, quote, emphasize the victory of character by lee and others in rising above the horrors of war and the shame of defeat. in petersburg, civil rights and civil war memory clashed on february 27th, 1960. at the library, formerly the home of william ma hone. the segregated library restricted black patron's access by forcing them to use a side entrance and a poorly lit basement led by the reverend rent wyatt t. walker and r.g. williams, 140 demonstrators from virginia state college and peabody high school took seats on the first two floors of the library. the decision to request the

biography ofly, and it wasn't by accident, suggests that students were not simply challenging local power structure but the history that had come to justify it. the combination of social and political unrest in the city at the library dampened enthusiasm for the crater in 1964. and in the course of my research, there is some evidence that in 1960, the local centennial commission was planning to do some kind of major re-enactment of the

centennial of the crater. that never happened. more importantly, black political action here in petersburg and a more to the kinds of stories remembered and commemorated here in the city. the two have always been tightly interwoven. these changes have been gradual over the past two decades and petersburg, like many other cities, remains a work in progress. the biggest challenge remains connecting locals to the battlefield. during the course of my research, one gentleman who bl bl bl blivs lives on poke hcahontas id remembers the place, quote where the war was fought and an explosion took place. the feeling that there was nothing at the crater to give meaning to my life was reinforced during the

segregation that the battlefield was the white. we always grew up believing that the crater was part of the white community. for former petersburg mayor the crater, quote, was a name, but it meant nothing. this nation's collective memory of the civil war has undergone a profound shift since the 1960s popular hollywood movies, such as "glory," more recently "lincoln," "12 years a slave" highlighted topics that for much too long have been ignored or distorted. monuments to the black soldiers can now be found on many civil war battlefields. our children's history textbooks now do a much better job of addressing the history of slavery and emancipation and the availability of primary sources online now allows anyone with the interest to explore these challenging subjects on their own. even with all of these changes to the big picture, however, none of this matters if on the local level we cannot connect the entire community to its past.

superintendent lewis rogers said it best on tuesday. we want to be able to see ourselves in history. many of you in this room in the national parks service and in the community have worked hard in recent years in this direction. this challenge is formidable. the battle of the crater raises some of the most difficult questions about our nation's past because it challenges some of the most fundamental beliefs about us. it's much too easy to look away or to settle on a celebratory or self-serving narrative that ignores the complexity of the past. the history of the crater is not black or white history. it is our history. ultimately, we stand little chance of addressing the tough issues that divide us today if we can't take an honest or deliberate look at our collective past. thanks for listening. [ applause ]

>> so i would normally walk around for questions, but i don't think i can, because c-span's taping, and they need me, to record it all. i think they are going to pass a mike around if you have any questions, and i'm happy to entertain. is that the way we're going to do it? so if you have any questions, i'm happy to entertain them. i'll do my best. there's one over here. there's one over here. over here. >> yes. i'd like to -- okay. all right. >> got it? >> yes. something you said about the community not working together, the blacks and whites not working together to commemorate their history, but if you check

the newspapers -- if you check the newspapers, probably in the 1910, 1920 period, you'll find that the confederate veterans and the union veterans' organizations, both black and white, actually commemorated memorial day together here in petersburg at our cemeteries, and they did it together. they didn't do it separately. and somehow we lost that over some time here and there. maybe the depression and jobs and world war ii changed people, but that's what happened early in the last century. they -- they did memorials together. black, white, union and confederate ancestors and that's a fact. >> thanks. i didn't hear a question but i will respond. there is some evidence that in the 1880s, especially with the petersburg militia units, there are occasions -- in fact, there is a memorial day celebration.

that's actually a very large parade where black and white civic organizations do parade together. as far as i was able to discern, that's more an exception than the rule, and i think for our purposes tonight, what's really important here, is to understand the focus of my talk is, who had access? who had the opportunity to shape the local public meaning of the crater and the war here in petersburg? and if you actually go back through the records, what you do find, and especially at the crater, is you find that it's pretty much a place where white virginians go remember their lost cause. has is the dominant narrative of the crater that is in place from the period after the war right through the 1970s. in fact, in 1978 or '79, a local -- a school group from howard university, traditionally black college, came up and just

did a survey of sort of interpretation here in petersburg and the crater specifically. if you read the report, it's quite fascinating. they expressed a number of concerns, and they should be -- there was probably no surprises if i just list a couple. very few african-americans interpreting on the battlefield, wayside markers that, of course, pretty much ignore the story of black soldiers, the issues of slavery, black life here in petersburg, and even in the visitors' center. of course, i think no one in the room in the national parks service here would disagree that it's probably about time the park service gets a new visitor center. those exhibits are from the 1960s. from what i understand for the most part. so it's probably time for revision. so it's pretty clear that the crater itself is a dominant narrative, reconciliation between white and northerners and white southerners. that this is a place where they are going to come, sort of shake hands over the bloody chasm, if

you will, reconcile, but it's not a place that black americans visit. i found very little evidence that black virginians here in petersburg and elsewhere really spent much time at all on the battlefield. >> i've got one question. i work with a couple of black guys. both of them are probably in their 60s now. they never heard of the crater. they knew where crater road was. i asked if they ever heard of the seizure at petersburg. they never heard it because they were never taught anything in the civil war in the black schools back in the '50s and '60s. >> yes. and there are a number of good sources that i can point you to. in the 1960s especially, the state of virginia actually ordered its textbooks to be revised and distributed throughout the state. the textbooks were sort of authored, written in a way that was very much a reflection of

the civil rights movement. so if you actually look at the textbooks coming into virginia schools at that time, it's almost in reaction to the racial strife that you see in virginia and other parts of the country flew-of- -- through the 1960s. some of the textbooks are being used in virginia into the late 1970s. and one of my favorite examples that i used to use in class, when you get to the chapter on slavery, the chapter cover, right, the illustration is about -- it's a slave family coming off this boat fully dressed. they look upper class and they are shaking the hand of the boat operator. they are being welcomed off the boat. and then if you read the text, the text is even more remarkable. the text basically says that african-american slaves on the eve of the civil war were not interested in the issues of the day. think about that.

think about that not simply as history, but also history written at a specific time. in the mid-20th century. think about why these books are being written the way they are. those books, of course, are no longer being used. but those books, of course, i would argue, did a significant amount of damage. and if you're interested, i'm happy to share some sources, some wonderful recent sources in the "virginia magazine of history and biography." one came out last year, in fact. happy to share it. i think there are some questions over here. >> kevin, in doing the research for your book on the memory aspect, was there any one fact or idea that surprised you extensively or challenged any preconception? >> it sort of gets the one part of the paper that i found absolutely fascinating.

and that is i was -- i think when you study memory in the civil war, and i'll make this sort of short, probably the most popular book if you wanted to start somewhere in thinking about the history of how americans have remembered or forgotten parts of the war is david blight's race and reunion which came out in about 2000, 2001. the central thesis is that by the early 20th century, white and black americans had largely reconciled, and in doing so, they were forced to push aside the memory of emancipation, slavery and black military service. there's a certain amount of truth to that, no doubt. but i guess i had been influenced to such an extent that when i actually got into the archives and looked at the black community here in petersburg and elsewhere, i was really struck by just how rich sort of the local memory of these specific battles, just how vibrant it still was in some of these communities. and churches played a huge role in perpetuating these

narratives, a crucial role in sort of furthering or highlights these stories. i think that's how vibrant it was. i was pleasantly surprised by it, and it definitely sort of complicated the story. the other part of it, of course, is mahone. he, in my mind, is the most fascinating individual in the story, and i only skirted the issue with mahone in the 1880s. mahone is -- i mean, he is blasted in the press for his racial politics. here you have a former confederate, high-ranking confederate general. you might think of it if you want a modern word for it, as a 19th century example of swift boating. he's blasted. he never recovers. his alliance with black virginians destroys his reputation. to such an extent that even in virginia textbooks, there is no mention of the readjuster movement.

virginians just want to forget that moment. just brush it aside. and that you have someone -- we think of long it street as the great trader of the kwon fed ree reece confederacy. longstreet ain't got nothing on mahone. long street just accepted a position in grant's administration. mahone went out of his way to bring about the most dramatic, dramatic shift in the racial politics of the state. and it's a story that most people have never heard of. absolutely fascinating. >> the battle of new market heights, i think there was a half dozen or a dozen medal of honor, colored troop medal of honor winners. >> sure. >> were there any at the battle of cater? if not, was it because there was either no valor, or it was so ugly it was politically -- >> richard dorsy is an example for his role in protecting the flags. i believe he's the only one.

yeah. he's the only one. yeah. one over here, and one back there. we'll get to you. >> the party you talked about that mahone ran, did they run candidates just for local elections? did they run candidates for statewide elections, national elections? >> so mahone will align himself. he selected a senator. he aligns himself with the republicans for the most part during his time in d.c. of course you can see the problem there. they run people throughout the state. they control the governorship, so they dominate. they control patronage from beginning to end. the end of it, it's a complicated story, but in 1883, the evidence seems to show that his detractors -- they're named the readjusters because the big issue of the day for virginia is

what to do about the state, a massive state debt. that's all we can definitely relate to this issue. do you pay it off entirely, or do you readjust it downward? in other words, pay off just part of it. mahone's position was you only pay off part of it, because he was committed to actually funding certain public works. and so the funders were the ones who wanted to pay it off. they tend to be more conservative. they tended to be more committed to sort of the racial status quo in virginia at that time. and so the success of the readjusters, they're running people on county level, the state level, you name it, but in 1883 his detractors i'm pretty sure staged at least one race riot in danville. and that has -- it's right on the eve of the election, and that, apparently -- some historians have argued -- that

that had a profound impact on how virginians voted when they went to the polls. but this is really important to remember, because we tend to think that after the war that reconstruction is next and jim crow is inevitable. right? that's what we're taught in schools if you get the right kind of class. that jim crow is inevitable. in virginia, it wasn't. in virginia you have reconstruction for the first few years in the immediate aftermath of the war, and then reconstruction comes in in this odd way, with the leadership of the former confederate. now, how long that could have lasted, who knows? but it does give you a sense that post-war virginia is a bit more complicated and even interesting than you might at first think. at least in my mind it is. mahone -- somebody needs to write a biography of mahone. the last one was written in the mid-1930s, and i can tell you why it hasn't been written. if you go into the archives and read his own handwriting, it's

chicken scratch. it's like reading an ekg scan. it's horrible. i was just going page after page and there are hours on end when i'm just sitting there looking at this, going, who could read this? i mean, who was he talking to? it's one of those things. somebody needs to get at that. my pleasure. >> having participated in a whole host of events in the last three days commemorating the battle of the crater, one of the things i was informed of repeatedly is that a central reason for the failure of the union attack was that the colored troops were not brought into the battle as they were planned to be. instead of going in early, they came in very late. and further, that the decision to do that was a political one

and that it was elevated to at least general grant. my question is, what information is available, since it was a political decision, that the person of abraham lincoln, in fact, participated in making that specific decision? >> there's no evidence that i've ever come across. i don't know of anyone in the national park service or anyone else. lincoln is not involved, i think we can safely say that, in the decision-making which is pretty much lincoln's approach, anyway. especially when it comes to grant. i think in part it is a political decision. meade, even grant, is worried about the political consequences. keep in mind that there is a presidential election looming in november, and there is a concern about the ramifications if these men are thrown in, and you know what happens. right? so there is that concern.

as far as the change in the plan, i think we exaggerate a bit sort of the -- no doubt the last-minute shift, that's going to sort of put a wrench into anything. i think we tend to exaggerate. there is this common belief that the black soldiers are sort of training on a regular basis for this maneuver. there is no evidence for this. it is true that some units, some regiments are going through some training. some more than others, some none. it's important to keep in mind the regiments, the two brigades in the 4th division, sometimes they're actually away from the 9th corps entirely, off engaged in other types of activities. so it's hard to imagine their spending much time at all training specifically for the next crater. i think that gets back to how we tend to want to remember this story. look, it's the sesquicentennial. the story of the black union soldier is front and center, and i couldn't be happier about

that. go back to the centennial, and you will be hard-pressed to find any references to black union soldiers, bumt i think there's been a danger in the way in which this story has been pushed over the last few year, and i think it's become almost sormt of the moral narrative of our civil war memory, right? we want to correct for forgetting about them for so long, and i think we tend to gloss over some of the darker sides of black soldiers. i think i sort of touched on one of them. i don't think we're very comfortable talking about black soldiers massacring others. that doesn't fit into our memory right now, but i think the other part of this is, to get at your question is, i think we want to believe that if those black regiments had been aloud to lead the assault, that would have been it. in other words, we can imagine black soldiers marching, charging over blanford hill, right, into petersburg. that's a very soothing image. i think that tells us more about

how we want to remember the war than the battle itself, because anyone who has studied civil war battles, they never go as planned. right? there's always something that goes afoul. right jo so is it any surprise that given this massive detonation that no one really can predict what it will do to the landscape and what's beyond it. remember, it's not just that front confederate line they have to deal with. this is a complex sort of maze of bombproofs, traverses. part of the problem is in the 1920s, the crater battlefield was an 18-hole golf course. so a lot of that battlefield has been smoothed over in one way or the other. you really are hard-pressed to get a sense of what it would have looked like in the 1860s. so would it have changed anything? i don't know. no idea.

>> i have a question about mahone. i'm quite fascinated with him, as i am benjamin butler, too. and my question to you is about mahone's ability to influence, communicate what you found out about that. he must have been quite charismatic, because i don't see how you can pull off being on one side of the war and then turning around and running under a republican ticket, and also getting the african-american community back him after screaming, you know, remember fort pillow on the battlefield. so i want to know more about this personality and his -- i'm accusing he must be quite charismatic like clinton, for example. >> excuse me. i was losing my voice. that's actually a really good

question. i don't know if i can really get at what you're looking for, because i find mahone, as well, fascinating for some of the reasons you're getting at. although for me, reading his letters or what i could read of his letters and especially what others wrote about him, he's kind of difficult to really decipher. i found him kind of this -- there's this wall in front of mahone. i will say this much about him. he is very adept at utilizing his war record to get what he wants. it's not surprising, because after the war, mahone becomes -- he's the president of the miami and pacific railroad. it's a huge conglomerate of railroads. it's very controversial here in virginia. he has to plea to the virginia government to do certain things and he has to assuage the concerns of local communities. and he does this primarily by sort of pushing his war record. he gives free passes to veterans to travel on his trains. he goes to reunions.

the most popular organization of his own veterans was the mahone's -- i think it's called the old brigade association. they met on the crater battlefield. mahone organized all of this. and it's interesting because he doesn't fit the mold of the lost cause confederate general. he's not refighting civil war battles. he's not concerned about whether or not the war was about slavery or not. mahone was concerned about the future of virginia. that comes through loud and clear. not concerned about refighting the war. he does love his veterans, that's for sure. but i don't really have a sense of sort of his emotional life at all. and i think maybe it's in part because so little of his own writing is accessible. i'm sort of brushing off your

question, but i hate to do so because i think that's just the kind of thing that probably explains his success. he does make certain political alliances with certain individuals in the black community. robert a. paul is one of them. and they take full advantage of this. i know there was passed around this morning a little leaflet about the black community giving him a cane, i think, with a gold tip. the context of that is really important because african-american politicians, black readjusters understand that their position in state government and what they've gained because of mahone is tenuous. they want to keep that going. and so, of course, you can see that as kind of playing to mahone's, you know, his ego a little bit, right? we really love you. right? not everyone loved mahone in the black community or, obviously, among white virginians. so it goes without saying -- maybe i can give you some references for further reading that might actually be helpful, but that's the best i can do. >> sir, in your research of general mahone, did you find any writings where he reflected back

upon surviving the nat turner slavery revolt in south carolina in 1831? >> that's a great question. mahone was from southampton county. nothing specific, nothing explicit. but i do think it's important to remember that he probably would have grown up -- he was born in monroe. his family were innkeepers, kept a tavern. so he's not from the slave-holding class, the large slave-holding class. so nothing specific, but there is no doubt that mahone and others in that part of virginia, especially the tidewater area, they would have grown up hearing stories about nat turner's rebellion. they would have grown up hearing stories not just about nat turner's rebellion, but many would have grown up hearing stories about violent slave rebellions in the caribbean throughout the early part of the 19th century. so part of what i tried to do without understanding confederate reaction to black soldiers in the crater was to fit that response into the broader context of slave

rebellions, those that actually happened and those that there were rumors. because sometimes, oftentimes, it didn't matter whether it actually took place. if there was even a rumor of a rebellion or organization, you clamped down hard. so the men who were fighting in petersburg that day, they don't need to hear cries of no quarter. they don't need to hear cries of remember fort pillow. right? they know what needs to be done on the morning of july 30th, and they do it. in fact, if you look at the numbers of black soldiers who were massacred, it actually falls into line with the numbers who are usually killed in the aftermath of slave rebellions in the states and beyond the caribbean. so it's a measured response on the part of confederates on july 30th, but i do think that's an important point that -- it's at least worth thinking about. i think there was a question over here, if we have time.

great questions. thank you very much. >> oh, not to keep on the mahone bandwagon again. >> no, please do. he's wonderful. >> well, reviewing some of the th corps -- 9th corps records of the national archives, that looked like they hadn't been looked at for years, it was clear that a lot of the stuff did not make it into the official records, and there was a great account by henry thomas, who was colonel of the usct regiments who when they finally allowed a truce to bury the dead, he got turned around and walked into the confederate lines by mistake and was captured. he immediately put on a blindfold so he couldn't be accused of spying, gets taken into petersburg. he reports nothing to report on the lines. i got captured by the confederates, brought back the next morning. then colonel loring, who was

burnside's chief of staff, >> right. >> writes an addendum on this thing, and he writes that thomas was taken in and the confederate officers were spitting on him. they recognized him as being a white commander of a usct regiment and treated him horribly. >> sure. >> until -- and beauregard treated him horribly, and then finally mahone comes through, and he hears that the confederate officers are putting malone down as being, as rescuing black troops. >> i -- well, go ahead. >> really it just shocked me. then the other thing, going through some of these records that you don't read about too much is in the 9th corps area which is most of the park, how they talk about the confederates kept up, like, sniper fire day

and night because they were just so tickeded off -- >> both sides. >> -- the colored troops are in the area. the union officers feel that's why it's worse there. of course, they are the closest, but in the history that i learned growing up, i didn't hear that level of nastiness. just, you know, mahone must have had something in him that was just a little bit more decent than the others. >> and i don't claim to know what that is. it is true that after the fourth division was consolidated later that year, the snipering does slacken off a bit on that particular front. the other thing i'll just mention, and i found this absolutely fascinating. amp the battle, about 1,100 black and white prisoners were taken. they're paraded through petersburg up and down the streets. just imagine that. they're just paraded. it's the way they organized the prisoners. they interspersed black and white union prisoners. all right? they're mixed up.

there's no doubt that one of the reasons they're doing this is to sort of stick it to the white soldiers, forcing them to march alongside their black comrades. but there is another thing going on here, and i think that is they were actually sending a message to the remaining civilian population that remained in petersburg. here's a controlled example of race mixing. here is really what's at stake in this war. slavery, of course, is the institution that largely kept the races separate throughout the antebellum period in virginia and elsewhere. if we lose this war, here's a visual example of what's in store for us. so i don't think it's any accident that they did this. not just for the reasons of insulting the white union prisoners, but thanks for the comment. yeah. >> where were most of the black buried? where were the black dead, the soldiers, where were they buried? >> many of them were just buried

on the battlefield afterwards. mass grave? >> say that again? >> mass grave. >> many were buried on the battlefield. >> yeah. i don't know what happened to all of them. i'm sure some of them ended up in cemetaries, absolutely. i don't know the exact sort of number that end up in cemeteries. i know a large number -- and they were finding bodies on the petersburg battlefield into the 1930s, well late into the post-war period. >> just to add to what happened to the bodies of everybody, union dead were removed off the petersburg battlefields between 1866 and 1869. confederate dead are removed by the ladies memorial association in the city in 1966 through the early 20th century. so poplar grove national

cemetery is where battlefields are. there are 331 black soldiers buried there. almost all of them are unknown burials from the crater battlefield. >> thanks, emanuel. if i had my way, every talk i give on the crater, i would bring emmanuel with me. thanks. >> i hope that i'm the last person to speak, because i'm not speaking agen ing as i should. i think that my presence here tonight has been fulfilled, and that is to listen to you. that's fine. but my mind goes to many other things that have no relationship to our being here tonight. i was born in south side virginia.

once a year, from my being a boy going to a one-room school, once a year i felt good about being a black person. it was on april the 9th. we celebrated emancipation day. we talked about lincoln. we talked about freedom. that's when i really felt good. the other times was an existence as if we were pushing a barrel up a hill. >> thank you, everyone. i really enjoyed that. thank you for your question, and your time. [applause]

>> once again, kevin, thank you very much for you spending time with us, and i want to, again, thank st. paul's episcopal church for this venue. i think this was a perfect setting for our gathering this evening, and most of all we want to thank you for taking time out of the your day, your evening to be with us. and we hope that you were fulfilled tonight, that you were stimulated somewhat tonight by kevin's words. and we encourage you to continue learning about petersburg, the american civil war and where we've come over the last 150 years as a nation. but again, thank you all very much for your time with us this evening. [applause] with congress on recess during this month, american history tv airs throughout the week here on c-span3.

coming up live this afternoon author and historian anthony pitch will detail his book "the burning of washington" in which he describes how british military forces 200 years ago this week set the white house and u.s. capitol on fire. after making their way boo-oint mation's capital. see it live today starting at 6:45 eastern, again, here on c-span3. coming up tonight, a look at the civil war's atlanta campaign in may of 1864, marching into georgia with a goal of capturing atlanta. amp a series of battles throughout the summer and a siege of the city atlanta fell to the union on september 2, 1864. we'll hear about general shermaning march through the sea along with confederate johnston, and also a look at confederate weapons manufacturing in central

georgia during and after the fall of atlanta. it's all coming up tonight starting at 8:15 eastern here on c-span3. next, an event commemorating the 150th anniversary of the battle of the crater, and honoring the role of the u.s. colored troops. the battle of the crater took place july 30th, 1864, as part of the siege of petersburg. the ceremony includes the unveiling of a stamp by the u.s. postal service, and a detail of the events of the battle. held at petersburg battlefield, this is is 1 hour and 15 minutes. good morning, ladies and gentlemen. we thank you this morning for being here at petersburg national battlefield on the 150th anniversary of the battle of the crater. my name is chris brice, chief of

interpretation for petersburg battlefield, and for those of you that were with us this morning at 5:30, we thank you again and welcome you again here to the park. remarking a few minutes ago to one of my colleagues, much like it was for the soldiers 150 years ago, who were in the overland campaign that started in early may of 1864, it's been a long road to petersburg. we started this -- started our 150th events for three parks on may 3rd at spotsylvania courthouse, part of fredericksburg, spotsylvania county national military park, and we've moved south ever since. it's been quite a feat for the national park service. it's the first time three parks within the process shared programming where we tried to make a continual program of the overland campaign rather than

looking at it as wilderness, spotsylvania, north harbor, petersburg, that this was one continual process march for these soldiers 150 years ago, and i know for some of you in the audience this morning, we've seen your faces before. you've been on the road with us and we certainly appreciate that. [ applause ] this morning i'd like to introduce to you the superintendent of peterberg national battlefield lewis rogers. lewis began his park service career in 1984 as seasonal interpretive park ranger at allegheny railroad, jamestown flood in pennsylvania. he took his permanent position same sites following year 1985 serving as a park ranger and later as a resource management visitor protection specialist at the sites there.

1990 he moved to blue ridge parkway here in virginia. while there served as law enforcement ranger with the added duties of law enforcement interpretive seasonal rangers in the parkway and also responsible for a living history appalachian farm, seasonal visitors contact stations. he became chief at booker t. washington in 1992, chief of interpretation, he was responsible for interpretation, visitor interpretation, resource management, fire management and fee collection operations within the site. 1994 supervisor law enforcement independence national historical park, and thend moved to valley forge, 1997, first as supervisory then chief ranger where he managed both law enforcement and interpretation. in 2009 took on the role of interim superintendent in new

hampshire. he became superintendent of petersburg national battlefield in 2010 and most recently he served as our acting deputy regional director, chief of staff to our regional director here for the northeast region. he holds a bachelors degree in parks and recreation with concentration in resource management from slippery rock university in pennsylvania, and also a graduate of the federal law enforcement training center with a basic law enfoens forcement and criminal investigators background. it's my privilege to introduce to you superintendent lewis rogers. [ applause ] >> thanks, chris. i appreciate that introduction. i am very, very honored to be here today. i want to take some time to let you know just what this means to me. when i was a child, i can remember sitting in front of the tv.

this goes back a ways when black and white movies dominated tv. this goes back a ways when 12:00 came and the tv actually went off. [ laughter ] i can remember sitting in front of the tv late at night and i remember watching those old war movies. i remember watching the "leather necks," john wayne, as they flew through the air. i remember watching those guys as they fought in battle. as soldiers fought and died in their cry for freedom. i can remember all those things. i fell in love with those movies. it inspired me. it motivated me. then one day a peculiar thing happened. i can remember during that time that we began to integrate our schools. i can remember the forced busing. i can remember how it affected me and how i watched social and racial unrest that plagued our country. i can remember the american flag

being carried in the hands of hooded ku klux klan members. i remember as it waved in the beginning. they mind and poison my imagination. a small quiet voice echoing and it told me if you were there we would not have done these things. these images were not for you. perhaps you would have been a porter. perhaps you would have been a dish washer. but if you were there, this would not have happened. i believe that i never would have fought in combat. i found myself drawing away from

i faced the flag and i would not repeat the words. i felt this country had rejected me. a stranger in a strange land. this may have been your land. when i saw the stars and stripes, when i saw the stars and stripes at people's houses on the fourth of july parade, i actually believed that that flag did not wave. it stood for a different society and a different people. but it did not represent me. and then one day i picked up a book. it was a small magazine. it was put out by a man of tony

brown. it was called tony brown as journal n that book, he dedicated that entire book to the story of the tuskegee airmen. i read that book and learned about the 332nd fighter group, the 100th and 301st and 302nd fighter squadrons. i learned that the 322nd flew the kobe raz and thunder bolts and the than north american p-51 mustang and a peculiar thing happened to me. i began to dream again. and i began to learn about all the accomplish. s of after the can americans had made over the years. i could now see myself in history and perhaps i could have served in the first rebelling men at valley forge under general george washington because now i knew they were there. perhaps i would have served a board the u.s. constitution in the war of 1812. i fought off the british in louisiana in 1815 because i could see myself there. or perhaps i could have served right here in petersburg in 1864 in the u.s. ch's color troop and 29th, 30th, 31st or 34th infantries or in 1866 i could have helped settle the west as a

buffalo soldier fighting in the ninth or tenth cavalry. perhaps i would have been henry o. flipper born a slave but later graduated from west point in 1877 as commissioned second lieutenant in the u.s. army. again, perhaps i would have found myself in a spanish american war as a buffalo soldier coming to teddy roosevelt in rough riders. perhaps i would have found myself in world war i. serving in the american forces and fighting under a french commander in europe and later dubbed the harlem hell fighters. perhaps i could have been eugene bullard, the first african-american to fly in combat during world war ii in the french army. his motto was a heart painted on the plane and a motto that read

we all bleed red. perhaps i would have been the first black sailor to receive the navy cross for his heroism during pearl harbor. perhaps i would have been at mondayfort point. or perhaps i would have been some of the young black women or known some of the young black women in the army's army corps, the 6888 who deployed to europe during world war ii. perhaps i would have been part of the 320th, vla all black bloom barrage. according to the u.s. army, the 320th is the only battalion to land on the beaches of utah and omaha on d day. perhaps i would have been part of the 93rd infran tribuilding air strips in the solomon island and fighting the enemy to keep them from destroying what i just built. perhaps i would have been part of the red ball express which

drove supplies from normandie to pair witness over 70% black participation. or perhaps i would have served in world war ii under general patten and the battle with the bulge. perhaps i could have served with them when they forced a hole in the line. perhaps i would have been with them as they fought through france, belgium and germany. perhaps i could have been with them when they linked up to the soviets in austria. or perhaps i could have been a part of the eighth marine ammunition company that landed in iwo jima. buffalo soldiers fought with mcarthur in korea. and daniel chappy james flew p-51st and later f-80 jets in support of troops on the ground. later he became the first american four star general. perhaps i would have been charles young, born in 1964, the third african-american to graduate from west point, the first african-american to attain the rank of colonel. while in san francisco, he was pinlted first acting superintendent in general grant

national parks. no, i couldn't have been a superintendent then. that was too long ago. but i can be one now. and as i continue to educate myself about all the contributions that african-americans in time of war had done, something peculiar began to happen to me. something peculiar began to change. when i looked at those old black and white movies again, i couldn't hear that voice anymore. my love affair with those all black and whites were rekindled. i began to love those old fighter movies once again. and this is the most peculiar

part. not just the ones about black fighters. i began to embrace them all. i began to embrace the ledger leather necks. i began to embrace the dirty dozen. i think what changed in me was that i had found my place in history. although i didn't see myself in every picture, i knew i was there. just out of the scene i was flying those planes. just over the hill i was driving those tanks. i found my place in history and something i could be proud of. what i've learned is that we all want to tell those parts of history that mean the most to us. from our different points of view. we want to hear those parts that fill us with pride. those parts that we want to shape the thoughts and the hearts of our children. those parts that compel us to get out of the bed in the morning and push on through another day. people want to see themselves in history. one day in october in late 1980s, i found myself in a station in pittsburgh taking a oath with a number of other sailors. i found myself on a plane on my way off to the u.s. navy rtc in san diego. later i found myself in my wait to port wanini to a cv in the united states navy. a few years ago, i found myself in the stands at great lakes as i watched my son pass in review. just a few days ago a young man

asked me why should i serve for our country which does not like me? now i know this is not true. but sometimes the voices of hate can be so loud that you can't hear the voices of reason. but i explained to him, young man, we've been serving this country since our conception. i explained to him about christmas adatux, the uscts and the buffalo soldiers and 761 battalion. he said, you know, i think i can serve. after reading about the tuskegee airmen, a peculiar thing happened to me when i was a boy. i saw john wayne and i loved him. i saw the black sheep and i loved them. i think what changed was best described by something that chappy said and was written later in a book by benjamin davis jr., the commanding officer. he titled the book simply "an american."

and he said when a reporter asked him about his title and why he titled it so simply, he said that i fought too hard for this country and i lived here and i've given. and he said i've done too much and i'm not a hyphenated american. he said i'm not a black american. i'm not an african-american. i'm not an afro-american. he said simply, i'm an american. and you know something happened to me when i went back to school. i stood a little stronger. i crossed my heart and i said those words with pride. and now when i look and i see the american flag blowing in the wind and waving in the breeze, i come to realize that that flag waves for me. thank you. [ applause ]

>> thank you, lewis. this morning our colors will be presented by the fort lee color guard. will you please rise? this will be followed by the national anthem. ♪