to grow our hearts, our compassion and become better people. and great singers who are committed to understanding to equality, to fairness, to giving voice to the unheard among us, to nothing less than our future on this earth as humans, and who do so for decades with the commitment of surviving all weather. these are singers on a whole other level. the singer i have the good fortune of introducing today has left us with many clues. point to the true face of a beautiful world and a life well lived. there have been many clues, many bread crumbs on the path. many bits in the sand i have found through her voice, for this i'm eternally grateful and

endited. please welcome mavis staples. and moderating the panel discussion today as a catalyst for social change, he's the executive director of the grammy museum in los angeles. noted music authorities, specifically on music in the 1960s, and author of more than a dozen books. his most recent, this land is your land, woody guthrie and the journey of an american folk song. frequent lecturer at the white house and performance at the white house. please welcome bob santelli.

>> thank you for doing this, it's an honor to have you here. the last time we got a chance to sit like this we were at the white house talking about soul music and the importance of music in the civil rights movement. >> yes, we were, and it was around the same time. so it's getting to be a habit. next year at this time i'll look for you. >> the staples singers are generally recognized in music history as one of the seminole groups of american history, particularly in the post world war ii period. yourself and sisters and pops, of course bridge the gap between rhythm and blues, soul music and gospel music. and sometime during that transition of moving from the sacred into the secular, of course, you and your family get involved in the civil rights movement. talk a little bit about how that

happened. >> you know, back in. actually we started singing in 1950 and 1960, pops had started hearing dr. king on the radio. dr. king had a radio program, and pops was hearing his program, we happened to be in montgomery alabama on a sunday morning and we didn't have to work on that night. pops called my sisters and i to his room, he said, listen, you all. this man martin is here martin luther king, we didn't know dr. king, pops. he keeps secrets, you know. he said, martin luther king, and he has a church here, and i'd like to go to his sunday morning service. would you all like to go? yeah, dad, we want to go.

we all got in the car, went down to the church, we were seated, someone let dr. king know we were in the service, and he acknowledged us. he said we're glad to have pops staples and his daughters with us this morning. hope you enjoy the service. well, we enjoyed the service, yes. when it was over, dr. king was standing at the door and greet th them. my sisters and i we walked past, shook dr. king's hand, when pops' turn came along, he stood there and talked to him for a while. he finally came on, we get back to the hotel, he let us go to our room, he went to his room, then about a half hour later, pops called us to his room again. he said, listen you all, i like this man's message, i really

like his message. and i think that if he can preach it, we can sing it. and that was the beginning of our writing of civil rights songs, freedom songs, message songs. and the first one was march of freedom's highway. and then why am i treated so bad? that turned out to be dr. king's favorite. we would sing before dr. king would speak. some nights we'd be going down the parking lot. dr. king would yell out, pops you going to sing my song tonight? oh, yeah, doctor. that was why am i treated so bad. we would sing why am i treated so bad. he wrote that song.

there were a time when nine black children were trying to board a school bus. they wanted to attend central high school. this went on for so long, these children would walk proudly with their books and heads held high and they walk into a mob that would spit at them and throw at them and call them names. they never would turn their heads, they would keep on walking. finally, this went on for so long, the governor of arkansas, the mayor of little rock, and the president of the united states said let those children go to schooling. we're all on the floor, we wanted to see these children board that bus. children get up to the busby the time they get to the door, a policeman put his billy club

across the door. that's when pops said, why they doing that? why are they treating them so bad? he wrote that song that evening. >> it's pretty obvious, and i think most historians acknowledge the fact that music was the fuel of the civil rights movement. >> if you took away music -- dr. king gave the courage and strength to push on despite the hardships. >> that's right. >> you grew up in a church, learning gospel music, it was easy for gospel music to get out on to the front lines. >> explain how that happened? >> in church we're singing gospel, gospel is truth, this civil rights movement is truth.

we needed to give our input what we felt. we're christian people, we mean business. we don't mess around, you all. once we started singing ain't gonna let nobody turn me round and you put some of that gospel up in them songs, people are going to hear that, they're going to hear music period, people love -- i don't care what kind of music it is -- if you sing it -- you bring in some truth, realness, people see this happen, what you're singing about, it's going to move you, motivate you, that's because we wanted to give people a reason

to get up in the morning and get started. get started on your day. pops was our leader, whatever pops told us, we wanted to do, that's what we were going to do and we loved it any how. i was a teenager. i was the same age as those kids in little rock that couldn't board the bus so i became super interested in the civil rights movement. when we first started, you know, when we went to dr. king's chur church, i tried to keep it going every album, cd i record, i have some civil rights songs on there every concert that i do today i'm still singing spreed open

songs i'm not going to let it go, because i'm a witness, i'm a living witness. >> thank you. it's a part of me and i think the more i continue to sing these songs -- this generation -- these kids they weren't there. i was there, and i'm still here, i'm bringing it to you i'm still on the battlefield you all i'm on the battlefield and i'm fighting every day, i'm fighting for love, i'm fighting for hope, and i'm fighting for peace and i won't stop, i will not stop my father and dr. king -- dr. king,

the greatest -- you hear what's his name? mohammed ali, i'm the greatest of all time. dr. king -- i'm sorry ali, now, you can't beat dr. martin luther king, and i just loved to hear dr. king's laughter. you know, he had this jovial laughter. most times i would look at him, he would look so serious. he might look sad. that's what i've held on to his laughter, any time i saw dr. king, i saw him as happy it's just such an honor and such a wonderful feeling to have been able to stand next to this man and to shake his hand, this

great, great man, dr. martin luther king. >> we were talking backstage, and i asked you if you and the staples singers were at the march on washington. that was one of the ones you missed. where were you? >> we were over there in london, we had no business being there. we recorded, we wrote songs, mar march. it's a long walk to d.c. but i got my walking shoes on. we were singing. >> you were there in spirit? >> yeah. london didn't have nothing for me, they didn't even have no turnip or mustard greens.

after everybody got through marching, they went to munching, corn bread, turnip and mustard greens, okra, corn on the could be. boy, i'm getting hungry. [ laughter ] >> bob, you do this to me every time, i'm so grateful the lord has kept me, and i'm still here to carry on what my father and dr. king -- we're carrying on we got to keep that legacy alive. dr. king's going to be alive, but pops, we have to work on pops' legacy. everybody knows those staples singers. >> speaking of pops and the

staples singers, one of the great things about the group was, you were able to succeed in the church, you were able to also succeed like sam cooke, taking a song that had some serious messaging, and bring it on to the pop charts, i saw him for like sam cooke. people learned about that learned about the message behind it by hearing it on the radio, on the pop charts. the staples singers were doing the same thing, you had many songs crossover from the black charts to gospel and into the pop charts. >> that surprised us, we were just singing because we loved to

sing. we were singing to sing in church. we never thought we'd even be making records or traveling. we weren't trying to be stars, you know. we sing for nothing. you didn't have to pay us, we just loved it i think that the best thing could happen is for the news to turn over like that, people, they try to put us out of church. ♪ ♪ i know a place i couldn't resist that. i had to do it, bob. but the church folk, they started saying the staples singers are singing the devil's

music. the devil's music? i had to do so many interviews, i would tell them, the defrn ilain't got no music. devil ain't got no music, all music is god's music, you have to listen to what we are singing "i'll take you there" is talking about taking you to church, taking you to heaven. ain't no smilin' faces lying to the races, where else could we be taking you but to heaven i said you all have to listen to our lyrics, you listen to the song come on and everybody gets up dancing. i'll take you there is a gospel

song. the next thing you know, we were invited back to church. the very first song request i'll take you there. and the church was rockin', i said, see that, you can't help but move. if it got a beat. that's with any music, and especially with gospel. that spirit hits you, you got to move. people they take music, they know it makes them feel good they wanted to try to say staples sisters is devil's music. you do interviews, all of us did interviews, but my main thing was about the devil. because i didn't like the way that sounded.

the staples singers singing devil's music. we'd been singing church songs, folk songs people would hear our -- i just said, pops, daddy, why these blues festivals calling us? we don't sing no blues? he said, mavis, you go back and you listen, we had such a unique sound, you listen to our music, our music has some of everything in it. >> that's right. >> and for years, we sang gospel songs with our father, didn't know pops was playing blues on his guitar. i said, oh, that's why they like you so much. you're playing the same music. pops learned from a blues artist in mississippi. charlie patton. charlie patton was a boy, a man.

he said he would -- saw charlie patton playing the guitar, when he started he wanted to play just like charlie patton, and he was making ten cents a day. i said you were making ten cents a day? that was a lot of money back th then. so down on the farm, right in drew, mississippi, he showed us since where he purchased that guitar at a hardware store, they let him put in his 10 cents, they let him put it on leah way until he could get it out. elvis presley told me one time, miss staples i love the way your father played the guitar. >> we have a few in this city as

well, pops, if you are a true blues musician pops staples goes on your list as one of the great unsung blues players whether it's elvis or eric clapton, what a great stylist he was, he had a style that could carry from blues to gospel and r & b. in the '60s too, you also -- we talked about being on the front lines with dr. king, there were people that you met that were starting to come into the movement who weren't african-american but understood the cause a young man at that time by the name of bob dylan. >> you met him and saw him and pete seger, others that were on the front lines, talk about your time with them in the '60s. >> pete seger, bob dylan -- bob

dylan is one of the world's greatest poests. we met him in the early '60s, we were in new york about to do a general electric tv show. everyone was there. we didn't know folk music, but we started hearing this music, bob's manager said i want you to meet the staples singers. he said, i know the stables singers, pops has a velvety voice and mavis gets rough sometimes and he quoted the song, he said mavis says -- i don't want to meet him, he's an angry man. he started singing, we started the show. we're standing on the side,

dillon started singing and pops said wait a minute, you all, listen to what that kid was saying, he was saying, how many roads must a man walk down before you call him a man. pops used to tell us stories about when he was in mississippi, he was a boy, he couldn't walk on the same side of the street. if a white man was coming toward him, he was on this side, he had to crossover. daddy said, we can sing that so song. we went home, we got bob dylan, we learned blowing in the wind. the answer, my friend is blowing in the wind pops could literally live it, because it was real with him he would tell us a lot of stories, between pops and my grandmother, man, those were the

best times sitting on the floor listening to storyies but pete seger, if i had a hammer, i'd hammer in the he was something, just genius. it was such an honor to meet a man like pete seger. we would go -- just like we would be invited to blues festivals and we'd be invited to folk festivals. i didn't understand. we'd hear a folk song, i'd say, well, that's the closest -- they're singing something like gospel. they're singing truth. you look out and you see all these flower children with the flower oh, man i just loved it. i would have the best time,

newport this year, newport rhode island festival is my birthday party. everybody's invited. everybody's invited. yes indeed. we're going to have a time. >> it's one of the great festivals, right? >> yes. >> with the time we have left as we said before, staples singers often found themselves on the pop charlottes as did people like aretha franklin, and there was a word respect. otis redding writes the great song, and aretha franklin sings it. that word takes on new meaning. respect yourself.

matt rice wrote that, the same guy that wrote "mustang sally." he told us, look, we're in the studio, it's max. max came in and said, pops, when you sing it, you have to sing ♪ dip-dittly-dee ♪ he said, i'm into the going to sing that. he said, you'll have all the little kids doing this, and matt was right. respect yourself, it's my favorite, still my favorite, i think today respect yourself just needs to be recorded all over again, because these -- some of these children, i won't say all, some of the children

man, they don't -- haven't been taught to respect themselves or to respect your elders. you don't talk back to no grown person. if i had talked back to -- i would have been. i would have gotten off the floor many times i would love to hear someone record respect yourself again, and be explosive like it was back in the '70s, because pops -- one of the black songwriters told pops, i'm glad you and your daughters records that song, i was on the bus the other day and i realized after hearing that song, i wasn't respecting myself. there's a little old lady on the bus, and i let her stand up while i'm sitting down, and i thought about that song -- he said, let me stand up and let this lady sit down, pops said,

that's what we want to happen. that's exactly why we're singing it. >> in order to respect fellow man, have you to respect yourself. >> if you don't respect yourself ain't nobody going to give a good cahoot. mavis staples. >> thank you. thank you, bob. help me up. thank you, bob. thank you, thank you all. [ applause ] all right, i got a new knee, i didn't tell them about my knee. bye-bye. >> for my next guest, taking a completely different tack,

instead of talking about music, we're going to hear some music first, graham nash, you may remember, if you remember the 1960s as a member of the hollys, one of the great british invasion groups and then in the 1960s, he comes to america, and in particular to california, falls in love with the weather there, a certain woman, the music, and basically starts a brand new career as a member of perhaps arguably america's first rock 'n' roll group. crosby stills and nash. he's been a man of conscience, someone who has written songs and performed songs for the good of the people, the good of the environment, for -- songs that basically commit to a particular message. he's been a friend of the grammy museums, he's been a friend of all of yours, if you've been following his career. he's a great individual, incredible musician and songwriter. please welcome to the stage, mr.

graham nash. [ applause ] >> how are you all doing? yikes. must be david crosby's stool. i'm very pleased to be here, obviously. i got a phone call early 1969 from a friend of mine called hugh romney, he was a beat poet from new york city who now goes by the name of wavy gravy. one of our heroes, he called me and said, you know, the hippies, who disrupted the democratic national convention in chicago

in '68 had been arrested for disruption and needed funds for their defense fund. and would me and david and steven and neal consider going consider going to chicago. i could go, but steven and neil had made other plans earlier and couldn't go. so i wrote this song actually for steven and neil. ♪ okay. ♪ so your brothers bound and gagged, and they chained him to a chair ♪ ♪ won't you please come to chicago ♪ ♪ just to sing ♪ in a land that's known as freedom ♪ ♪ how can such a thing be fair ♪ won't you please come to

chicago ♪ ♪ for the help that we could bring ♪ ♪ we can change the world ♪ we are arrange the world ♪ is diein' ♪ to get better ♪ ♪ politicians sit yourself down ♪ ♪ there's nothing for you here ♪ won't you please come to chicago ♪ ♪ for a ride ♪ don't ask barack to help you ♪ he might turn the other ear ♪ won't you please come to chicago ♪ ♪ or else join the other side ♪ we can change the world ♪ rearrange the world

♪ is dying if you believe in justice ♪ ♪ if you believe in freedom ♪ let the man live his own life ♪ ♪ those regulations who needs them all ♪ ♪ throw 'em out the door ♪ somehow people must be free ♪ i hope the day comes soon ♪ won't you please come to chicago ♪ ♪ show your face ♪ from the bottom of the ocean ♪ to the mountains of the moon ♪ won't you please come to chicago ♪ ♪ no one else can take your place ♪ ♪ we can change the world ♪ yes we can ♪ we arrange the world

♪ is dying in you believe in justice ♪ ♪ if you believe in freedom ♪ let a man live his own life ♪ some of those regulations who needs them ♪ ♪ open up the door [ applause ] >> thank you. thank you. ♪ must be 50 years since i tuned my own guitar.

i'm not sure if you're the same way, but sometimes your life geget s changed from a phone call. i got a call from crosby one day. and david said, book the studio, book the engineer, buy some tape, get the band together, we're coming down. and i said, cros, you sound intense. what's going on? he says, wait until you hear this song that neil young has just written. i said, okay. pretty intense. what's it about? he goes, it's about kent state. and i obviously knew exactly what was going on. and so i booked the studio, and they came down the next day. we recorded "ohio" probably in about an hour and a half. we did the "b" side which was a song called "find the cost of freedom." we mixed it. our dear friend who is the ceo and president of atlantic records was in the studio that

night. so we gave him the tape. and we told him to put it out immediately as a single. and ahmed said, well, you know that you have a single out already. it's called "teach your children," and it's going into the top 20 already. are you sure you want to do this? and we said, listen. when america starts to kill its own children, we're in deep trouble here. so let's put this out. that single, and we killed our own single of "teach your children," but the single of "ohio" was out about 12 days later. the original artwork was a copy of the american constitution with four bullet holes in it. so this is the song that neil wrote. ♪

♪ two soldiers and nixon coming ♪ ♪ we're finally on our own ♪ this summer i hear the drumming ♪ ♪ four dead in ohio ♪ got to get down to it ♪ soldiers are cutting us down ♪ should have been done long ago ♪ ♪ what if you knew her and found her dead on the ground ♪ ♪ how can you run when you know ♪ ♪ na na na na na na na ♪ na na na na na na na ♪ na na na na na na na na na ♪ na na na na na na na

♪ gotta get down to it ♪ soldiers are cutting us down ♪ should have been done long ago ♪ ♪ what if you knew her and found her dead on the ground ♪ ♪ how can you run when you know? ♪ no no no no no ♪ two soldiers and nixon coming ♪ ♪ we're finally on our own ♪ this summer i hear the drumming ♪ ♪ four dead in ohio ♪ four dead in ohio ♪ four dead in ohio ♪ four dead in ohio

thanks. i'm not going to get you this depressed, but there are many, many problems facing this world, as we all know. all the stuff you've been hearing about, you know, this morning, and we'll hear about for the next few days are just some of the problems. we must keep hope. we must look at the world through the eyes of our children and our grandchildren. we must make sure that we make it a better place. it seems to be an overwhelming problem right now with all the stuff that's going on with global warming and the political situation and the wars that are going on throughout the world,

but we can make it. we can make it a better place. there's no doubt about it. here's a song i wrote. it's called "teach your children." ♪ you were on the road ♪ must have a code that you can live by ♪ ♪ and so ♪ become yourself ♪ because the past ♪ is just a good-bye ♪ teach your children well ♪ because that father's help did slowly go by ♪ ♪ and feed them on your dreams

♪ the one they pick ♪ is the one you know by ♪ don't you ever ask them why ♪ if they told you would cry ♪ so just look at them and sigh ♪ ♪ and know they love you ♪ and you through the years ♪ you can't know the fears that your elders grew by ♪ ♪ and so please help them with your youth ♪ ♪ because they seek the truth ♪ before they can die

♪ and teach ♪ your parents well ♪ because their children's hell will slowly go by ♪ ♪ and feed them on your dreams ♪ the one they pick ♪ is the one you know by ♪ don't you ever ask them why ♪ if they told you you would cry ♪ ♪ so just look at them and sigh ♪ ♪ and know they love you

thank you. thank you, buddy. >> graham nash. >> thank you very much. >> that was wonderful. that was great. >> it's a little hard singing rock 'n' roll this early in the morning, but that's all right. >> the songs that you sang, of course, are very appropriate for what we're talking about, as you said, for the next couple of days. in the 1960s when you were coming up, as i mentioned, we come across the atlantic, the hollys are behind you, you come to america and begin the second phase of a long career. the '60s were really an interesting time because for the

very first time, pop music in general, as we knew it, was really embracing ideas other than puppy love and teen angst. all of a sudden there start to become these songs of conscience, if you will. and these songs basically help define not just a decade but an entire generation. really helped shape things. the request he question is -- a this is a hard one to answer. i often ask this to artists. does an artist such as yourself have a responsibility to write those kinds of songs, to make sure that songs are not just about entertainment, although that's a very sal i had reasval writing one, but that there's also the need, the responsibility to write ons songs of consequence, to write songs that have a little bit deeper meaning. what's your take on it? >> i think one has to realize that we're just a small link in an incredibly long and beautifully strong chain going all the way back, you know,

since before the weavers even and before pete seger and bob. we're all troubadours going from town to town, letting everybody know that the emperor really doesn't have any clothes on, you know. and we're trying to pull back the curtain and show the wizard behind everything because my goodness, we know how many curtains are there are. we know how many wizards there are nowadays. a responsibility, i think it's a responsibility that as a human being, not just as a musician. thank god for music in my life. i have no idea where i'd be if music hadn't come into my life. so i have to thank my mother and father for encouraging me instead of forcing me to get a real job. i mean, i work harder than anybody i know, but i still don't have a job. you know? it's an unbelievable existence.

do we have a responsibility to do that? >> or do you feel that you personally have a responsibility? >> i have a responsibility to talk about stuff that bothers me. i don't write for anybody. i don't write for david or steven or for neil. i don't write for anybody but me. i have to get my feelings out. i have to -- i have to express myself. and the way that i do that is through art and music. and like i said, i'm an incredibly lucky person because i would probably be absolutely without question have been in an insane asylum for the last 40-odd years. if i didn't have this ability to get my feelings out. >> the outlet. >> so it's not a responsibility. it's a drive. it's a need to express myself in as many ways as i can. yes, i wrote my share of, you know, moon june in the back of

the car song. the hollys made an incredible career out of that. when i moved to america and i began to hang out with crosby and steven and neil and joni, i began to realize that even though i had done a couple of interesting deeper songs when i was with the hollys, especially in towards the end there, it wasn't until i came to america that i began to really realize that it was important for the to waste people's time. because in many ways, time and our family and our friends are all that we have. that's real. so i don't want to sit you down and play you a song that's going to waste your time because first of all, i've wasted mine doing it. and i don't want to do that. my father was dead at 46. i'm now 72 years old. i cherish every second that i'm alive.

i'm grateful for every second that i'm alive. i'm incredibly proud to be an american citizen, as i have been for the last 30-odd years. i didn't feel that it was right to be hypocritical about this country. and if i was going to sit there and criticize this country and criticize the people that run it and praise the country for its incredible beauty and the beauty of its people, i felt i would be hypocritical if i didn't become a member of this society. and so i did many, many years ago. i don't know whether any of you know anything about los angeles, but there's a very famous hot dog stand called pink's. and i went from the dorothy chandler pavilion. and with 1500 other people that were becoming citizens that day and steven said, you're an american citizen now, right? i said i think so. he says come on, we're going to pink's. so yeah. i'm not so sure that it's a responsibility, but it's

something that i can't help doing. i just can't. >> do you think, in the 1960s where songs of conscience were exploding, we talked to mavis earlier. there are all kinds of artists and bands from dylan and donovan to the rolling stones, jefferson airplane, phil oakes, so many of them writing songs that carried deeper meaning other than just simple love songs. did the music have an effect in your opinion on the outcome, the vietnam war, in particular, what was happening with the civil rights movement? how much, in your opinion, did the music play in the success or failure of it? >> the momentum of this country is incredible as a planet. and to move it in any one direction takes an enormous amount of energy. and the movements that you do detect are very, very small. having said that, i do believe that music can influence people. i think it can entice them to think about things that they may not necessarily think about during their working day.

i think that the ideas that music carries forth are the most important thing that we have. i mean, it was ideas that brought down the berlin wall, you know. it's ideas that had, you know, the civil rights brought into existence. it's ideas always. and i think that music can -- i mean, didn't i write it? didn't i write "we can change the world"? i didn't mean it in a huge thing, but i meant it in a small way. >> yeah. >> but we can. we can change the world with music. i don't doubt it. you know, i've had many vietnam veterans come up to me and say that our music saved their lives. you know, they were in the middle of the jungle trying to figure out how to stay alive for the next ten minutes. and would be playing music. and you know, in the late '60s, they were mainly playing our music. you know, to realize -- once you drop a pebble into a pond and

the ripples spread out towards the bank, it's when the ripples start to come back to where you threw the pebble in that is most interesting to me. and to hear vietnam vets talk to me about how our music affected their lives and kept them alive is incredibly gratifying. as a musician. >> as an englishman looking at what was happening in the 1960s, you would come here with the hollys. you came here, of course, after you leave the you thinking aboe civil rights movement as you read about the marches and what was happening in mississippi, in selma, montgomery, on the march on washington in '63? how did you take it? >> i've always rooted for the underdog. i've always had a sense of what was fair. i think being english is very different than being american.

from this point of view. when i was born, world war ii still had several years to go. it was a part of your daily truth that you did not know whether your house was going to be there tomorrow. you didn't know whether your friends were going to be alive. and i think that when you're brought up in that kind of an environment, you have a very different attitude towards -- well, what we're doing in america now with all these preemptive wars. i think that god forbid, had, you know, new york or los angeles or chicago or austin been bombed like england and europe was bombed, you know, and almost bombed out of existence, i think you have a different attitude towards war. war is insane. as we all know. there has to be a better way of

dealing with our fellow human beings other than immediately going for your gun. i do realize in many ways this is the wild west. but to me, people like the nra and the pharmaceutical industry and the tobacco industry and the lobby, i think they're all going to be seen as major criminals within 50 or 100 years. i really believe so. i mean, how can you -- how can you, with all honesty, make a product like cigarettes that kills about 300,000 people a year and still do it? knowing full well that what you're making kills 300,000 people a year. how do you sleep at night? really, seriously. i mean, how do the koch brothers sleep at night? you know? one of the things that upsets me greatly about this being able to buy our democracy, you know, in

many cases you can buy a congressman or a senator for the price of a decent car, which is a terrible thing to say, but there is so much corruption going on in every country in the world, not just here. i often wonder, you know, don't the koch brothers have children? when i say the koch brothers, i don't just mean those two brothers. i mean their ilk, their 1%ers who are trying to buy our democracy. i definitely, you know, have views about citizens united. i think it's one of the worst supreme court rulings in history, to me. and i think that we should all fight very hard to overcome citizens united. and allowing this kind of money into politics is just -- is -- it's awful. it's truly awful that you can buy your democracy. and that's what people like the koch brothers are doing. but don't they have kids? don't they have, like, you know,

parts of their organization that are looking into the future and how much oil is left, how much, you know, how much aluminum is left? don't they know what's going on? don't they know what they're doing? it's very -- it's very interesting. how do they sleep at night? >> you brought up environment. and you were involved along with david and steven and neil and lots of your friends, the no nukes movement in the late '70s which really had a profound effect in changing young people -- not so much changing but at least enlightening as to what that could entail. and you continue, over the years, we were talking before about, you know, your interest in the environment and climate. and you live in a great part of america in hawaii where you see the absolute beauty, natural beauty of this country, particularly that state. and you've done things. and you continue to do things. where does that urgency come from, and how do you put it into

the music? it's been a long time since you started this nearly 50 years ago. >> i know. i often wonder where i get the energy from to do all this. and the only thing that i can really say is i look at the world through the eyes of my children. and i have to -- i personally have to make it better for me. and i have to make it better for my wife, and i have to make the world better for my kids. my firstborn son, jackson, a year and a half ago, gave us our first grandchild. and you'd better watch out for this one because she's a kick ass. i know every grandfather says the same thing, but she's a stunning woman. my second born son, will, just in the last month found out that him and his wife, shannon, are expecting identical twin boys in july. so i look at the world through the eyes of the future generation.

and i've seen this planet environmentally getting much worse. and i've seen the world getting much worse. the reason why i'm in hawaii was in the late '60s, i used to live in san francisco. and i saw a billboard that said "shower with a friend because we're running out of water." okay. funny, right? big billboard, a funny. that's funny. but when you project as to what was going on, when you saw what was happening to the columbia river, when you saw what was happening while damaging our rivers, we saw particularly northern california sending all their water down to this desert called los angeles. i began to realize that if i was going to get married and have children, i wanted to live in a place where to as much degree as i could manage it where water would never be a problem.

1 1/2 miles from my house is the wettest spot on earth. our average rainfall is 460 inches a year. the record, 690. i don't think water's going to be much of a problem for me, but it is going to be a problem for a lot of people and very soon. i predict that oil is going to be worth far less than water. yes, the entire world runs on oil, and we're going to have to deal with that problem. and it seems that many bright people are working on solutions for that. but this problem with water is going to really be humongous, i'm afraid. >> you know, you speak about these issues, particularly young people, your children, grandchildren, my children face. in the '60, civil rights movement, as we said, vietnam, the anti-war movement, embraced

music as an agent of change. at the very least, inspiration. and it worked. it galvanized a whole generation of young people to get out on the streets, to pay more attention to what was going on. you would think, in my opinion, that today the issue s are in some cases even far more dangerous than they were in the 1960s. there are still civil rights movements to fight, gay rights which was spoken about earlier today, of course, being at the forefront. climate change being what it is. these are things that will seriously impact not just our kids but the entire world. >> mm-hmm. >> why is it, in your opinion, that there hasn't been a movement among younger musicians to do what you did and what so many of your colleagues did in the '60s, which is to write about did, to use the music, to galvanize the masses to get them -- to get the government or our leaders to move on this in a way that brings results. >> a couple of things are going on here. first of all -- and i'm sure it

precedes the romans -- but they were credited with eventing bread where you give the people a little to eat and give them something to watch, and we'll be able to control them. and that's exactly what's going on today. i think that the people that own the world's media, you could count on two hands. they don't want protest songs on their airwaves. they don't want it on the radio. they don't want it on the tv. they want you to lie down, be sheep, don't say anything, buy another pair of sneakers, buy another soda and leave us alone while we rob you. that's what's going on today. on a very, very subtle level. and sometimes not so subtle. there are many protest songs still being written. if you go to neil young's website, living with war, you'll see about 3,000 of them. but the people that control the media don't want to hear any of that. it used to be that most of the societal changes came from

universities, especially the sorbonnes in paris. we have trained our kids to be doing this. that's all they do. all day. and it's great for them. but it's not really a part of the real world about what's going on. we have distracted ourselves from the importance of what's really going on. we are much more interested in justin bieber's monkey and the size of kim kardashian's ass than we are in afghanistan, in yemen, in somalia, in iraq. on the surface of things, we don't stand a chance. but i can't believe that. i have to believe that there's hope. i have to believe that, you know, that the upcoming generations will see through all this buying of democracy.

will see through the neocons always going for their gun first. i think the kids today are smart. i think that they will see through all this. and i think that eventually they will find their way of protesting. the way i was brought up is to speak my mind through music. and that's what i'll continue to do as long as i'm, you know, on this side of the grass. let me respeak myself. >> the idea that crosby, stills & nash -- crosby, stills, nash & young or just crosby & nash, you've had so many different combinations. but there's always been this musical common denominator of great music, great harmonies, songs that were powerful, that

moved us, that entertained us, that made us think a little bit more. you're 72 years old, as you said. and clearly you've had a long career. what's next for you? how do you make sure that you remain relevant today in the kind of music that you perform and the kind of music that you continue to write speaks to not just our generation but to younger generations as well? >> i've never planned my life. i've only reacted to what was going on in front of me. my mother and father told me when i was a young child that i was a decent person and that if i followed my heart and my conscience, i would be okay. and it's very true. i mean, we have choices, right? you know, which way do you choose? do you choose the one that makes you feel good, that makes everybody around you feel okay? or do you follow this other path of greed and, you know, violence? we have a choice.

and i choose the positive side. i've always been -- i don't think i've changed as a person since i was born. i've always been this person. i've always had a need to shout my mouth off for some reason. i've always -- i've always championed the underdog. i've always been for what i thought was most fair. and i will continue to do that. i don't see any other way of living. i have about 25 new songs. i'm about to try and figure out some time to go into the studio. on some of the songs stretch from, you know, csn, i've just been on tour. we finished about a week ago. and although everybody wants to hear "teach your children," "sweet judy blue eyes," we know all that. but our audience lovers, for the fact that they could hear a song

that was written that morning and on this tuesday, that's exactly what happened. i finished a beautiful love song to my wife at 4:00 in the morning and did it that night. i [ expletive ] it up a little bit because it was brand new. nothing is perfect as you could hear over there on the piano, but it stretches from that to when david and steven and neil and i were helping to protest the vietnam war, there was one image that we really, truly loved and that was of the burning monk. the monk that had burned himself to death to protest the war. and it was on the front page of every single newspaper that you could possibly imagine throughout the world. because it was horrendous. a man emulated himself because of what he believed in. what you don't know, in the last year, 128 tibetan monks have burned themselves to death because of what's going on between the tibetan people and the chinese government who are

trying to obliterate them, right? you try writing a song about that. but it was so important for us to do it that my friend, james raymond, who's our keyboard player in the band who happens to be david's son, a brilliant writer. james and i wrote a song called "burning for the buddha." so once again, my emotions are running from a deep love for someone i've spent the last 30-odd years in my life and have many children with to what's happening today in the news. and it will continue to be that way for me. i wake up in the morning. i take my first breath. i'm glad to be alive. and i get on with my day. and my days are very interesting. >> if you don't believe him, you could read your book because he has written a wonderful -- i guess you'll call it memoir -- that has an interesting photo on the cover, if i'm not mistaken, it's you with a camera around your neck because if there's another thing that you love as

much as music, i think is photography. and so talk a little bit as we begin to wind down here, talk a little bit about your love of photography and how that related to music in your life. >> i was 10 years old. we were a very poor family. my father worked very hard. but at the weekends when he wasn't working, one of the main joys in his life, he had bought a camera from a friend of his at work. and he would take pictures of me and my sister. i only had one sister at that point. at the local zoo, you know. elephants, giraffes, all that kind of stuff. and when i was 10 years old, we lived in a house that was called a two up, two down which was two small rooms downstairs and two small rooms upstairs. but he would take the blanket off my bed and put it against the window to block out the light. and he would prepare photographs. and i remember this one particular day, i was with him. we had been to the zoo earlier that day.

he put this kind of negative thing in this enlarger thing and shown it on a piece of blank paper and put it into this colorless liquid. and he said wait. and i'm waiting. and i'm waiting. you know, and 45 seconds to a 10-year-old is like summer, isn't it. but eventually this image came floating out of nowhere. i -- it was a piece of magic that i'll never, ever forget. in my book, "eye to eye," which is a book i have of my photographs, the first portrait is a portrait of took of my mother when i was 11. so i've been a photographer longer than i've been a musician. and i've always been a very visual person. and i, you know, i just am this insanely lucky man. i can't tell you how lucky i am. i mean, i'm from the north of england.

what the hell am i doing in austin, texas, talking to you guys, you know? it's been an insane life. and it shows no sign of stopping. no sign whatsoever. like i said, 25 new songs. but you know what? that's terrifying to a writer to have 24 finished songs that you've already written inside. songs aren't done, finished until they're out on whatever it is. it used to be 78s and 45s and vinyl and now it's digital. whatever that format is. songs can't leave my soul until they're out there and that you're listening to them. so right now you're looking at a very tormented man who has 25 songs that are all going, "please, please!" >> well, graham, we hope that we get to hear those songs. and we appreciate all the music that you've given us over the years. i'm sure i speak on behalf of the audience here that we've

appreciated everything that you and crosby, stills & nash and young and all your colleagues have given us. it's been a wonderful musical trip. and i hope and we hope that you continue to write as well. >> should i -- should i play you my latest song that i wrote at 4:00 in the morning? [ applause ] let me see here. we have to change this. uh-oh. i'm a very simple man. and i'm totally serious about that. i'm not a clever musician. i hardly know, you know, anything about the piano or the guitar, but i know what i need to say. and this song is for you all. this is the one i finished at 4:30 in the morning and sang

that night. it's called "here for you." ♪ ♪ i'm here for you ♪ just look at what we've been through together all these years ♪ ♪ i'm here for you ♪ through all the laughter and through all the tears ♪ ♪ i'm by your side ♪ through thick and thin ♪ we will always be friends

♪ i'm by your side ♪ holding on until the very end ♪ ♪ day to day i think about our life together ♪ ♪ with the children and a future that's been born ♪ ♪ and it would break my heart if we were not together ♪ ♪ knowing we'll go on and on ♪ i'm here for you ♪ when all the memories that passed ♪ ♪ i'm here for you

♪ the love we share is a love that lasts ♪ ♪ i'm here for you >> thank you. >> graham nash. >> appreciate it. [ applause ] our special american history tv programming in primetime continues friday night with programs from our archival film series "reel america," beginning at 8:00 p.m. eastern with the nasa documentary on the first mission to land men on the moon on july 20th, 1969.

at 8:30, an interior department film on the colorado river and construction of the hoover dam. after that, a 1960 nbc interview with herbert hoover discussing his life before and after his presidency. at 10:00 p.m., you'll see a u.s. army film featuring an adviser in vietnam in 1963. american history tv is here on c-span3. next on "lectures in history," indiana university professor michael mcgerr discusses feminism and its impact on popular music in the 1960s and '70s. this 75-minute class is part of a course called rock, hip-hop and revolution, popular music in the making of modern america, 1940 to the present. please note this program contains language and images some viewers might find offensive. >> good afternoon.

here we go. i hope you're doing well. this is almost too nice a day for education. all right. i have a staggering number of powerpoint slides for this. get your bets down now on whether i can get through them or not. i'll omit my customary professor humor, that's how serious this is. let's think for a minute, though, about where we're situated, what we're working on here. in this last third of the course that we started last week, we're dealing with the post-revolutionary era. we've built this idea that something radical and transformative happened to music in the 1960s. we've worked hard over the course of several weeks to establish those ideas. and we can't leave it, though, just as a kind of baby boomer nostalgia for the days that were. what we've been trying to deal with is this sense of pervasive

disappointment, that the revolution somehow ended in the early 1970s. the popular music became a disappointment, aesthetically, politically. that's the cliche. we saw plenty of evidence for it. what we've been trying to do is to say okay. maybe if we shift perspective, maybe if we don't simply buy the assumptions that went into the age of countercultural music, if we do that, we may well see music engaged in a different way. and the way i suggested, the way we've started out is by saying isn't it the case that popular music in the u.s. in the 1970s was doing what popular music typically had done well before the 1960s? which is to mediate relationships between men and women, to mediate notions of gender, to rethink sexuality. and that's where we started last time, with ideas about masculinity. and the way in which there's a radical transformation of ideas about mascuni