[ applause ] >> hello. i have the honor today of

introducing an austin -- and austin, texas, has the honor of hosting one of the great voices of a generation of the generous and civil rights activism. to be a great singer all by itself is a tremendous commitment, a combination of artistry and athleticym. it is rarely questioned in its mice tearousness, particularly when one is lucky enough to hear the singing of a great singer such as the one here today. music is the universe language, all inclusive, one only has to be within earshot to participate by listening and feeling its vibrations, a singer, a good one, let's you feel what is in his or her heart.

sometimes that singer allows us glimpses of great depths of understanding we yet to reach on our own. perhaps too removed from what they are seeing about or even have been too frightened to feel it. singers such as these share their inner wisdom, allowing us to grow our hearts, our compassion and become better peoplemenpeople and great singeo are committed to understanding, quality, fairness to giving voice to the unheard among us, to nothing less than our future on this earth as humans and who do so for decades with the commitment surviving all weather, these are singers on a whole other level. the singer that i have the privilege of introducing today is on this level and with her body of work and the work of her family has left us with many clues, clues that perhaps point to the true face of a beautiful

world and a life well lived. for me personally, there have been many clues, many bread crumbs on the path, many bits of gold in the sand that i have found through her voice. from -- for this i'm eternally grateful and indebted. please welcome, mavis staples. [ applause ] and moderating the panel discussion today on music as a catalyst for social change, he's the executive director of the grammy museum in los angeles, noted american music authority specifically on music in the 1960s and author of more than a dozen books, his most recent this land is your land, woody guthrie and the journey of american folk

song, frequent lecturer at the white house and executive producer of the concert series and performers at the white house, please welcome bob santelli. >> mavis, first of all, thank you for doing this, it's an honor to have you here, i think the last time we actually got a chance to sit like this, we were at the white house talking about soul music and the importance of music in the civil rights music. >> yes, we were. actually it was around the same time. so it's getting to be a habit. [laughter]. next year at this time i'll look for ya. yeah. [laughter] >> the staples singers are generally recognized in music history as one of the seminal groups in american music history, particularly in the post world war ii murder. because yourself, your sisters, pops, of course, bridged the gap between

rhythm and blues, soul music and gospel music. >> yes. >> sometime during that transition of moving from the sacred into the secular, of course, you and your family get involved in the civil rights movement. >> yes, we did. >> talk a little bit about how that happened. >> you know, back in -- actually we started singing in 1950. and 1960, well, pops had started hearing dr. king on the radio. dr. king had a radio program and pops was hearing his program. we happened to be in montgomery, alabama, on a sunday morning. and we didn't have to work until that night. so pops called my sisters and i to his room, he said "listen y'all, this man martin is here. martin luther, king. we didn't know dr. king, pops, he keeps secrets, you

know. he said martin luther king, he has a church here. i would like to go to -- to his sunday morning service, would you all like to go. we said oh, yeah, dad, we want to go. we all got in the car, went down to dexter avenue baptist church. we were seated. someone that dr. king know that we were in the service, he acknowledged us, he said we're glad to have pops staples and his daughters here this morning. i hope you enjoy the service. well, we enjoyed the service. yeah. [laughter]. when it was over, you know, dr. king was standing at the door and greeting the worshipers as they filed out. my sisters and i, we walked past, shook dr. king's hand and -- and when pops turn came along he toad and

talked to him for a while. we finally came on, went to to back to the hotel. then about half an hour later, pops called us to his room again. he said "listen, you all, i like this man's message, i really like his message. and i think that if he can preach it, we can sing it." and that was the beginning of our writing of civil rights songs, freedom songs, message songs, and the first one was march up freedom's highway. then why am i treated so bad, that turned out to be dr. king's favorite. he would tell pops, you know, we would sing before dr. king would speak and some nights at -- we would be going down all in the parking lot, pops, dr. king would yell out, "you're going to sing my song tonight, right?

stape?" he called pops stape, pops would say oh, yeah, doctor, we're going to sick you that song, that was why am i treated so bad. we would sing why am i treated so bad. pops wrote that song, you know, there was a time when nine black children were trying to board a school bus in little rock, arkansas and wanted to attend central high school. this -- this went on for so long, bob, they wouldn't let -- these children would walk proudly, with their books and heads held high, and they would walk into a mob. a mob that would spit at them and throw at them and call them names. they never would turn their heads. they would keep on walking. finally, this went on for so long that the governor of arkansas, the mayor of little rock and the president of the united states said "let those children go to school."

and we are all in the -- on the floor, pops -- we wanted to see those children board that bus. man, children get up to the bus. by the time they get to the door, a policeman put his billy club across the door and that's when pops said "why are they doing that? why are they treating them so bad?" and he wrote that song that evening, yeah. >> yeah. you know, it was -- it's pretty obvious and i think most historians acknowledge the fact that music really was the fuel of the civil rights movement. if you took away music it would have been hard to succeed because music gave the marchers, people like yourself, dr. king, the courage, you know, the courage and the strength to push on despite the obstacles and the hardships. >> that's right. >> it's -- you grew up in the church. you grew up learning gospel music, it was pretty easy for gospel music to leave the church and get out on the front lines and get out on to the marching, right

if. >> yes indeed. >> explain how that happened. >> that was, you know, we in the church were singing gospel, gospel is truth. this civil rights movement was truth. we needed to -- to give our input of what we felt, you know, we were christian people. and we -- we mean business, you know. we wanted like this. you know, we don't mess around, y'all. [laughter]. you know? so -- so once we started singing, ain't going to let . . . . 3w4r57 re gonna heard music, period. you know, people love music. i don't care what kind of music it is. but if you sing it, yes, sir -- [laughter] -- if you bring in some truth and --

and realness, i mean, people can actually see this happening, what you're singing about, it's going to move you. it's going to move you, it's going to motivate you. that was what we -- we wanted to give people a reason to get up in the morning and get started, you know, get started on your day. and -- and pops, pops was our leader. whatever pops told us, we wanted to do, that's what we were going to do. you know? and we loved it anyhow. we loved -- i was a teenager. i was the same age as those kids in little rock that couldn't board the bus. you know, so -- so i became super interested in the civil rights movement. when we first started, you know, when we went to dr. king's church, i didn't know dr. king. but i certainly enjoyed that service. and i'll never forget it. and i've just been trying to keep it going, keep it going. if you -- every song, every

album, cd that i record, i have some civil rights songs in it. >> that's right. >> frefreedomsongs. every concert that i do today, i'm still singing freedom songs, i'm still singing, i'm not going to let it go. because i'm a witness, i'm a living witness, you know. [ applause ] yes indeed. thank you. but -- but it's just a part of me. and i think the more, you know, i continue to sing these songs, this generation, this generation, the next generation, these kids, you know, they weren't there. i was there. and i'm still here. [laughter]. and i'm bringing it, i'm bringing it to ya. i'm still on the battlefield y'all. i'm on the battlefield and i'm fighting, every day. but i'm fighting for love.

i'm fighting for hope. and i'm fighting for peace. and i won't stop. i will not stop. my father and dr. king, dr. king the greatest, you hear -- what is his name? muhammaed ali, i'm the greatest of all times! dr. king, i'm sorry, ali, i'm sorry. [laughter]. now, you can't beat out dr. kinkdr. king, dr. martin lur king. i just loved to hear dr. king's laughter. he had jovial laughter. most of the times i would like at him, he would like so serious, he might look sad, but that's what i've held on to, his laughter. any time i heard him, i said "oh, dr. king is happy,

dr. king is happy." yes, just -- just such an honor and such a wonderful feeling to have been able to stand next to this man and the -- to shake his hand, this great -- this great, great, man, dr. martin luther king. >> back stage i asked you if you and the staples singers were at the march on washington. >> we were over there in london, we had no business over there. [laughter]. we missed -- we missed the march on washington. but we recorded, we wrote songs, marched -- it's a long walk to d.c. but i got my walking shoes on. and oh, we would sing -- >> you were there in spirit, weren't you? >> i was there in spirit. but london didn't have nothing for me, you know. they didn't even have no

turnip and mustard greens [laughter]. so -- i know over there that them sisters were -- [indiscernible] after everybody got through marching, they went to munching, corn bread, turnips and mustard greens, okra, the works, corn on the cob. boy i'm getting hungry. [laughter]. bob! you do this to me every time. [laughter]. yes. indeed. but i'm just so grateful that the lord has kept me and i'm still here to carry on. >> you are. >> what -- what dr. king and my father pops staples, my sister yvonne is still with me. you know, we -- we are carrying on. we got to keep that legacy of pops staples and

dr. martin luther king alive. dr. king not going to be -- but pops, we have to work on pops' legacy, everybody known them staples singers. >> speaking of pops and the staples singers, one of the great things about the group was you were able to succeed in the church. >> yes. >> and you were able to also succeed like sam cook, you know, taking a song that had some serious messaging and bringing it on to the pop charts, you know, a song for like sam cook a change is gonna come. amazing song, great song. >> oh, lord. >> people learned about that, learned about the message behind it by hearing it on the radio, on the pop charts. the staples singers were doing the exact same thing. you had many songs cross over from the either the black charts or gospel and then into the pop charts. that must have been gratifying for you. >> it was gratifying.

it was. surprised us, you know. we never thought we would get this high, you know. we were just singing because we loved to sing. we were singing when pops started us singing. we were singing to sing in church. we never thought we would even be making records or traveling. we were -- we weren't trying to be stars. you know? we -- we sing for nothing, you know. we didn't -- you didn't have to pay us to sing. we just loved it. but i think that if the best thing that could happen is for that music to -- to turn over like that. you know, people they tried to put us out of church. they wanted to put us out of the church. when i'll take you there came out, you know,. >> that's right. >> people would just up and dance. but to see the church people that -- ba, ba, babadump.

i know a place -- i couldn't resist that. [laughter]. i had to do it bob. >> that's okay. >> but the church folks, they started saying the staples singers are singing the devil's moving. the devil's music. i had to do so many interviews. i would tell them the first thing, the devil ain't got to music. [laughter]. the devil ain't got no music. all music is god's music. and the -- you have to listen to what we are saying. i'll take you there is talking about taking you to church. taking you to heaven. i know a place, ain't nobody crying. ain't nobody worried. ain't no smiling faces, lying to the races. now, where could we be taking you but to heaven. [laughter]. i said you all have to

listen to our lyrics, you just hear the song come on, you hear that beat, you see everybody jumping up and dancing, you know, we're singing i'll take you there is a gospel song. >> that's right. >> boy, they started hearing what i was saying. next thing that you know we were invited back to church. the very first song request, "i'll take you there." [laughter]. sang it right in the pulpit. and the -- the church was rocking. i said see there? you can't help but move. if you got a beat, if you got a beat and -- and that's what any -- any music, you know, especially with gospel, you know, that spirit hits you, you got to move. >> that's right. >> you've got to get on away from here, you know. so -- people they take music and they know it makes them feel good. you know. but they -- they wanted to try to say the staples

singers, that was music -- daddy said mavis, you do interviews, cletie you do interviews, all of us did interviews, but my main thing was about that devil. i didn't like the way that sounded, the staples singers singing devil music. i was like this. we have been singing church songs, church songs went to folk songs. folk songs -- people would hear our -- i just asked pops, i said "daddy, why are these blues festivals calling us? we don't sing no blues." he said, "may advicemavis, you k and you listen to our music. our music has some of everything in it." >> that's right. >> bob, for years, we sang gospel songs, with my father, didn't know pops was playing the blues on his guitar. i said "oh, that's why muddy

waters and them like you so much, you are playing the same music." but pops learned from a blues artist down in mississippi, charlie patton. he was a man. hall and wolf was there. he seen charlie patton playing the guitar. he wanted it, when he started, he wanted to play just like charlie patton. he was making 10 cents a day. i said daddy you were making 10 cents a day? he said, mavis, that was a lot of money back there. so down on dockridge farm in drew, mississippi, he has showed us since where he purchased that little guitar at a hardware store. they let him put his 10 cents, he put it in the lay away until he could get it out and he started teaching himself charlie patton style. well, you know, elvis presley told me one time,

oh, ms. staples, i like the way your father played that guitar. [laughter]. >> i have to say, many -- when you think of the great blues guitar player, a few in this city as well, but pops, if you are a true blues musician, a true blues guitar player, pops staples goes on your list as one of the great unsung blues player. his proof is, like you sid whether it's eric presley, eric clapton or anyone else saying what a great stylist, he had a great style that could carry from the blues into gospel into r and b so your sound had a consistency to it, yet you could go anywhere with it and you did. you know in th '60s, too, we talked about being in the front lines with dr. king. there were people that you met starting to come into the movement, weren't african-american but who understood the cause, a gentleman young man at that time by the name of bob

dylan. you met bob dylan and you saw him and pete seeger and others on the front lines. talk about your time with them. >> oh, 34th god, pete seeger, bob dylan, bob dylan one of the world's greatest poets. we met dylan back in the early '60s, we were in new york about to do a general electric tv show. everybody was there. all of the folk singers. we didn't know folk music. you know? but when we started hearing this music, well, bob dylan's manager said, bob, i want you to meet the staples singers. bob said "i know the staples singers." [laughter]. >> he was like pops, pops has the smooth velvety voice, mavis is rough sometimes, she gets rough. he heard my squall you know. he quoted the song, he said

mavis says yonder come david with >> he quoted the song. he says, may have is said you come to baby with your rocking swing. he started singing, they started the show. i was standing on one side and then he started singing and pop said, wait a minute, y'all. listen to what he's singing. he was saying, how many roads must a boy walk down before i call him a man. and he was saying when he was a boy in mississippi, he couldn't walk on the same side of the street. if a white person was coming towards him, he had to cross over. so daddy said, we can sing that song, y'all. and we went home, we've got