niece. she's director of the art collection and botanical gardens and professor of history at the university of california riverside. today she will discuss the republican queen's identity during the war. this time when dolley madison's drawing room and her events became known as squeezes, they were so popular, i've also heard that she's going to mention the role of snuff in the war of 1812 and i would encourage all of you later on to take a look at dolley madison's snuff box which is over at the decater house. we just brought that up today. go take a look at her snuff box. and with that teaser, please join me in welcoming dr. catherine allgor. [ applause ] >> thank you so much for that lovely introduction. i'm tempted to say forget about my speech. let's just go look at the snuff

box. but no, no, no. i'm very happy and honored to be here with such a distinguished set of scholar and an even lovelier audience. thank you so much to bill and to the white house historical association, to the u.s. capitol historical society and, of course, james madison's mountpilyer for having me here. the slogan don't give up the ship, the figure of uncle sam, the "star spangled banner," the proliferation of symbols that emerged from the war of 1812 constitutes a paradox. though, as this conference demonstrates, much recent scholarship on the causes, conduct, and legacies of the war has produced fresh insights about the costs and gains of the war, even the combatants. at the time the treaty was

signed, americans understood that peace gained them little and policy, international power or territory. so on the one hand it seems contradictory that such a wealth of symbolism emerged at such a fectless endeavor. on the other hand, the very futile nature of the war. the victory that contemporary americans and many later historians claimed was a psychological one. as member of the peace delegation albert observed, quote, the war has renewed and reinstated the national feelings and character which the revolution ha had given and which were a daily lessoning. he said the war made citizens feel more americans. they feel and act more as a nation and i hope the permanent nancy of the union is thereby better secured. so appreciating both sides of this paradox may explain the

national energy that took into account a fairly mundane battle and set it to the tune of an old drinking song and made it a national anthem. some of the most potent images to emerge from the war of 1812 are those of dolley madison facing down the enemy, fleeing the burning capitol, saving the gilbert stewart portrait and otherwise demonstrating heroism under fire. and what i'm arguing to you today is that part of the reason that dolley's american audience seized upon these images that would propel them to the centuries, we all know these images, is that they were really a culmination of a process. and the process was dolley's construction of a political identity. and she began when she was the wife of the secretary of state in 1801, she would have no idea, of course, what was going to be

happening 12 to 14 years later and it turns out what she did was precisely right. now, this idea of constructing an identity is one of the most rich and fruitful historical inquiries in the last 50 years. and there's a whole literature on identity and it's far too wide and varied to be summarized here but at the risk of oversimplification, here are some commonalities to this identity constructing process. identity making can occur at the individual level, a single person, and at a larger collective level and, of course, sometimes they operate both at the same time. similarly, identity processes can happen both consciously and unconsciously and these dynamics about identity mark the awareness and manipulation of the self, which makes it a modern phenomenon. people are backing at this time aware of cells. in viewing dolley's political construction, you can see a lot of tenants of identity theory at

play so as to a person of her time and place, she was offered and accepted probably unconsciously the roles provided by her culture and those roles were southerner, lady, political host he is, along with the more common roles of wife and mother. dolley added elements from european and royal cultures, however, to create her republican queen, a persona which she deployed to political effect. dolley's position as queen dolley resulted in her char ris mat particular figure for the madison administration. and as i said, it really began quite early, certainly by the time madison is inaugurated by 1809 but enhanced by the outbreak of war. in the search for this republican queen, the sources don't lie in dolley's own words. she's not discussed her work that way in her private kror

spoon dense. for evidence we must rely on the many descriptions of dolley that were supplied by those who saw her or met her, especially at her famous wednesday night drawing rooms. generally the description of dolley of the early republic had been regarded as a form of commentary, and not because they are quite colorful. men and women reported back home on what dolley wore, served, how she moved and how she treated people. but we have to look at these descriptions not just as mere celebrity mentions. the people who regarded dolley so minutely, whether members of the ruling elite and europeans invested in the experiment, what they were looking for and how she looked and how she behaved, they were looking for signs and clues about the madisons themselves, maybe a specific

political event, especially the declaration of war, and even for the fate of the republic. so there's a lot at stake in these descriptions. after the american revolution at a time of flux and change, with very few real political structures in place, these new americans focused on the persons of their leaders and the number p># subjected their attention was george washington. in the early republic, people transferred this capacity to dolley. to them, dolley symbolized the heart of the madison administration but also its true character. in political theory, the charismatic figure is a person who can convey abstract psychological and emotional messages to large groups of people. although the psychological aspect is important to any political either some who say all politics are psychological, it was especially important in

the infant early republic. it influenced the way americans felt about how they were ruled and that was key to the survival of the nation. recent scholarship, especially from historians of women's lives and gender has revealed that the early u.s. government and the political culture that is spawned was much more dependent on royal forms of rule than we ever previously thought. the newly liberated columnist turned citizens, it seemed, not only had an appetite for aristocracy, they craved the power they knew. so the founding men, even as they were putting together a new nation along the line of what they called pure republicanism. in order to command the widespread respect and assure the people that the right kind

of people were ruling them. now, this is a tricky balance to achieve. how much was too much in the quest to repurpose the old vocabulary of aristocracy of the natural experiment? and perhaps federalists such as washington and john adams would have brought back the practices. a number of americans, however, the republican followers of thomas jefferson, wanted nothing to do with the old world and kept a sharp eye out for, as they would have called it, encroaching aristocracy. so as it turned out, this aristocracy/republican balance came out in a number of ways. it was on the field of gender. so in the end, the women of the ruling elite were given the task of conveying the aristocratic

message to the masses. they had a lot more latitude than men did to do that. the genius of this persona that i'm talking about, the republican queen, made a bold declaration on this issue, mixing extremes on both sides for maximal effect. so dolley combined a regal visual persona with a personality that seemed downright democratic and put it to use at her social events. report after report, mostly favorable, described her regal bearing and fantastical costumes as dolley was in her drawing room. her demeanor is so far removed on royalty that your fancy can carry the resemblance no further than the head dress. she was a queen, many proclaimed to that, but as samuel mitchell, the new york congressman said, she was a queen of hearts.

james had employed dolley's personifying gifts during the difficult decision to declare war and how he did this allowed him to hold the war hawks at bay while he weighed options for peace. it's during this time that dolley and henry clay make several noted and publicized appearance, political watchers that though james could not officially embrace the war hawk's agenda, he was not discounted for it. he's not discounting it altogether. there seems to have been no hint of sexual impropriety in the stories that circulated about hol dolley and henry clay unless one counts sharing a snuff box. both dolley and henry clay shared their addiction to the substance and it was read by all in sundry as a favor of henry

within the madison administration. like many, sarah, sister of one newspaper editor and wife of the other, thought taking snuff was a bad habit. she admitted that in dolley's hands it seems only a gracious implement within which to charm. political commentator and writer margar margaret baird smith said, for who could partake of its contents offered them in a and retain a feeling to the interest of the bestower? in this way, dolley had henry clay on a kind of political string, as iwz were, while jame decided what to do. dolley's persona was firmly in place in washington city when the u.s. congress declared war on great britain in june 1812. shortly after the declaration, the president was in what we

moderns would call a public relalgs relations nightmare. they recognized his position as such. william burrwel worried, quote, the difficulties of his situation have increased in a great degree. as far as burwel was concerned, madison's only hope lay an influence sentiment by some brilliant achievement. that's not a bad thought. but unfortunately, for james madison, the war went badly from the beginning so the madison's chance for a brilliant achievement lay with dolley, who took her symbolizing capacity to a new level. her brilliant achievements were not the dramatic stuff of military victories and battles at sea. their execution and effects were subtler if as significant. dolley's wartime efforts

emphasized her pre-war work. she always used her social circles to bring people together in large gatherings which allowed them to fulfill their own political goals. in the first congressional season after the declaration, dolley began her social campaign early, returning to the capitol after only one week in the midst of business and anxiety, anxious for the war only. throughout the war she gave more parties than ever before and it's interesting, as you read her letter, she uses a phrase that i find very telling about these parties. she calls them the routine of gaiety which i think is brilliant scenes, as people call them. as kat said, before the war, her drawings became known as squeezes because there were 2 to 300 guests crammed into the oval room but wartime wednesday

housed up to 500. after the declaration, dolley's butler left her for france and she told her cousin and james' personal secretary city is more than ever crowded with strangers. my head is dizzy." no one was more visible at her parties than queen dolly. though personally she was as partisan as any man in congress, because she was a woman, dolly could be seen as politically neutral. men of parties had interests dictated by their political needs. but women could be disinterested, simply patriotic for their own sakes. her work transcended her political affiliation. since men were associated with one party or the other, no male, not even the president, could represent the united states. because, of course, in theory, as a woman, she was above politics, dolly could appear to the american public and european

observers as a larger than life embodiment of disinterested patriotism and nation. during the war of 1812 then, dolly became not just the charismatic figure for james madison, but for america. now her famed abilities to draw people to her had an urgent, larger purpose. her mission was to convey to the capital and to the country that the government was working, and that the war was being conducted well. she presented a picture of calm optimism and unquestioning support. military troops had begun honoring her by parading past her house when she was the wife of the secretary of state. now they march by the white house to be reviewed by her and she did so as a general would.

dolly then invited the soldiers in and served them refreshments, "giving liberally of the best of the house." she made a lot -- perhaps too much -- of the few military victories that came the united states' way and of the men responsible. and i think dr. lambert said earlier, the biggest surprise of the war was how well the navy performed. now we know how little it really good them, it is really amazing what dolly made of it. so as you heard, in the 1812 naval campaign, american forces captured the british ships, and the office is presented the captured ships' colors or flags to dolly in very public ceremonies. as the president's secretary edward coles arranged the first of these presentations, in a culture where intelligence traveled slowly, such displays were a welcome source of good news, in enveloping the public what had happened and heartening them. dolly was very conscious of this honor paid to her and the country during the presentation

of the macedonian's colors, it was noted the flush and pride of patriotism that suffused dolly's face. she was standing in the crowd and she said, i saw her color come and go. as always, dolly's visibility cut both ways and her position as a "disinterested patriot" did not go unquestioned. political enemies tried to turn events against her. particularly a federalist congressman, samuel taggert, spread stories of dolly defiantly stamping on the colors laid before her thus tarnishing the united states world reputation. so he said, an english man in the city hearing this report basely observed that charlotte, the queen of great britain, would not have done so with the american colors. discussing this incident later in life, dolly denied making such a gesture and indeed the story seems unlikely. such a public display of

negativity seems out of character for a woman of such controlled consciousness and also the fact that it was the federalist spreading the story around. the story seemed suspicious. according to dolly, when the men had been carrying the flag to her by the corners, this is according to her niece, commodore stewart let his end fall either by accident or designed, the motive has been much questioned. according to dolly, it was another lady crying out, "trample on it, trample on it," and dolly drew back saying, "oh, no, not so," while the lady advanced and put her foot on it. as the war advanced, the fears of invasion among the district's residents grew. it did not help matters when those in the capital began to hear tales of civilian intimidatiompd0á>áby the commander of naval operations, sir george coburn. dolly's job as the face of the war became even more crucial.

her husband, dolly madison attracted both positive and during the summer of 1813 coburn fed the fears of invasion while threatening her. while relating to ed card the details of the plot wherein british rogues were to land in alexandria under the cover of darkness and set fire to the white house, dolly confessed, i do not tremble at this but feel affronted that the admiral

should send me notice that he would make his bow at my drawing room soon. surely her bravado was a bit of a pose. she could be forgiving dreading a man with what she called a savage style of warfare. the panic in washington city abated somewhat when coburn did not attack in the summer of 1813 but the panic returned stronger than ever the next year and it turns out of course they were absolutely right to panic. the invasion of washington city began in the early mornings of august 19th, 1814, as a british force of 4,000 landed at benedict, maryland and the main port of the pituxit river. corriers brought the news to the capital, including the boast that he intended to dine in washington in two days. dolly remained coburn's receipt or cal focus as he, quote, sent word to miss madison, that unless she left

the house, it would be burned over her head. notice he doesn't mention james in this, nor does he include james in the other threat which is to capture her as a prisoner of war and parade her through the streets. on august 23rd, james left the white house in order to review the troops in the field and the national intelligence reported the rumor that 5,000 or 6,000 british troops had joined the force already are in maryland. this really panicked washington signaling a mass exodus. alone in the white house, except for her servants and slaves, dolly was poised to make her name in history. now the story that we know of dolly's most famous day and the subsequent crafting of her historical legacy will be crafted tomorrow by holly schulman in this program. i would conclude by dolly's ability to achieve historical fame after the war was a direct result of this experiment in identity making that rendered her the queen of washington

city, long before the first shots were fired in the war of 1812. if at the end of the war -- and dr. lambert talked about this -- most americans understood that the victory was psychological, then dolly's symbolizing work made that sense of victory possible. thank you very much. >> thanks so much. now is my favorite time, questions and answers. as we said, we have a microphone there. and i think maybe some traveling around with a mike. does anyone have questions? yes. ask a question, i'll repeat it. let's see if we can get you a mic. i'll tell what, why don't you ask a question and i'll repeat it. >> how much of dolly's performance was dictated by her husband's inability to say yes

or not. [ inaudible ] >> right. so this is a question about contrasting dolly's performance with james' performance, or nonperformance, if you will. a lot has been made of the contrast between dolly madison and james madison. she is this sort of tall, shapely vivacious woman, never forgets a name, a face or a family pedigree, proving her a true southerner. warm and lovely and all that. of course, everybody likes to make fun of james madison. washington irving calls him a withered little apple john. there's all kinds of famous quotes on him. don't want to load up on james madison with the president here. but there's two things -- so it is easy to make that contract. of course they are a great team. but there's two things i think that we have to remember. he is a true intellectual.

he constructed a lovely theory on which to run a government. i'm going to tell that you theory is not going to work. it is going to become a democracy in about 30 years and it is going to be two parties and pretty much their vision of the republic is going to fade away. they don't know this at that time. what dolly madison did, along with her other female colleagues, is endeavor to take this lovely theory, this lovely machine of government, and put it into action. and by putting into action, discovering its strengths and weaknesses -- so for instance, in the lovely theory that james madison has, there's no place for anything, you know, monarchical or aristocratic. or anything like that. there's no patronage, phony, which is the hall mark of courts. well, you can't really run a government that way. it is dolly and her colleagues that begin to build the first patronage machines in washington, d.c. borrowing from royal courts in order to try to

make this theory work. i think that's something. so you understand that when everybody's describing dolly and how fabulous she is, she's like a queen, they're also describing james in a positive way. that is, by saying look at this guy, there is no way he is going to be the charismatic male figure that we fear in a republic. that was the big fear. that somebody like george washington with his sword and over 6'0", that he was going to take over and become an emperor. napoleon, for all of his height, he was a charismatic figure. so they are a great contrast for the people of the time. here's little quiet james madison in his republican broad cloth. he's not a threat to anybody, butas dolly, not a threat because she is a woman, appears and gives everybody this kind of authority that -- and legitimacy that royalty kind of imparts. the other thing i want to say about them -- and they are two very different people, you can say intellectual, not intellectual, introvert. they are both abhorrent to conflict. they are both striving for his

goal and his goal is national unity. in everything that she does publicly, you can see her enacting his goal. so for all that they look so different, they have values in common. sometimes that worked out well for them and sometimes it didn't. but it was something profound that they shared. >> i get very frustrating when i hear descriptions of madison that are demeaning to him. i think part of the reason is because the men who said it of him were jealous of him. when you think that she was probably the most well known and admired woman of her generation, if he was as unattractive and unassuming and quiet and his tummy hurt, how did he win the most popular and beautiful woman of his day? >> we're talking about -- >> and he kept her until he was in her 80s and she was still in love with him. what man in here can say something like that?

>> oh, my lord! do i not want to see a show of hands. well, now this is very interesting. you got right to it. which is of course, there's all these terrible descriptions of james and they're awful. of course they are all political and of course people were probably jealous because he was the smartest guy if the room. the question is why did, at 26 years old, dolly payne todd, a widow with a son, and a little bit of money, choose james madison to marry. in fact, she chooses him so quickly, that it is a shame -- people are so shocked she gets married within a year after had her husband dies in the yellow fever epidemic. and actually, we have pretty good evidence that he was pretty swept away by her. but who wouldn't be, she's very beautiful. but very little that this was all love's young dream to dolly madison. in fact, the one thing we sort of have is a letter written on her wedding day which basically justifies her marriage to james as being good for her son. she signs the letter to her

friend dolly todd, her maiden name. when she is married, she writes dolly madison alas. we don't know what that's about. we do know that they fall in love after some point. that happens in marriage, people. and they become fabulous. but the question is why did she choose him? she could have had a pick of anyone. my theory -- this is where we wish our sources would write at a convenient time and place for historians. she had grown up in the world of chattel slave holding in the virginia gentry and she might have had very golden memories of her childhood. no doubt enhanced by the fact that her father freed his -- about nine slaves and -- and because of quaker conscious. when she's 15 moves the family to philadelphia which is very cold compared to anything down south. didn't move to richmond, to philadelphia. because he wanted to be in the center of the quaker world. by the time she's 26 and considering marriage to james madison, she's been up north for

ten years and terrible things have happened. there's a yellow fever epidemic. she loses her child, loses her child. her father dies probably after -- of a depression. i think all of her brothers are dead by that point. it is terrible in philadelphia. just a terrible time. so i think that there's a part of her that looked at this quite likely man and thought, i could go back to that place of my childhood. and in fact go back at a higher sort of station because she'd be the mistress of montpelier. the part i can't believe she didn't think about but we have no sources, what did the idea of returning to a slave holding state mean to her? she was just a virginia miss. you would say, well, she didn't think about it. but her parents were quakers. there was a lot of discussion about slavery and abolition sort of ahead of its time. her father gave the slaves freedom because of this and that was the reason she ended up in philadelphia. so i don't know if she had qualms about returning to a slave holding society. or whether she went without a backward glance. but some day somebody's going to

find a trunk of letters and tell me what i need to know. >> thomas jefferson said he was the most brilliant speaker along with pendleton that he had ever heard so he is not a quiet little man. >> james madison was a formidable intellect and a speaker. i do think we have to take these many descriptions of madison for what they are which is politics. ralph, this is the biographer of james madison, ralph ketchum. >> doesn't it say somewhere on there that i'm going to see the great little madison? >> right. so i have to say -- of course, madison is famous so dolly madison when she meets james madison, she's in the capital of the united states at that point, in philadelphia. and congress is there. and she has heard of what she called the great little madison. i have to say that -- i just have to acknowledge you as the biographer of madison, but also the savior of many of dolly's

papers. so when ralph ketchum was doing his wonderful biography of madison, he would note where he saw a dolly paper here and there. people keep women's papers differently than they keep men's. so it was really wonderful to have. one of the papers that came up that exists now only in microfilm -- thanks to you -- is a version of the memoir written by dolly's niece, mary cutts. use the "memoir" this way because most of the stuff in the memoir happens before she's even born. we kind of think it as the close est auto biographical information we have. it refers to that. >> you're standing there. >> i'm by the mic. >> you are. >> dolly is first lady for eight years during madison's administration. >> yes. >> jefferson is a widower in the previous eight years. and james monroe who serves the next eight years after madison, his wife is somewhat limited in

her ability to be in the public eye. so could you talk about how dolly her role as first lady expand in either one of those administrations? >> yes. so this is a question about dolly and her role as first lady. first, i would pity anybody who followed dolly madison. she was an act to follow. sadly for elizabeth monroe, people noted it. it was noted by people. and luisa katherine adams who would go on to follow miss monroe, she's just not dear dolly. of course what mrs. monroe brought -- once you understand that there is this tension between ar stok and republicanism or democracy, you can see the united states wrestling with it. so when elizabeth monroe comes with her polish from the continent, she tries to set things on a more formal set of footing, on ceremony and footing, as they would say, with

not great success. she didn't have that touch where dolly could really blend those two absolutely. i also have to say -- i owe this to holly schulman who will talk to you tomorrow. too much has been made of the fact thomas jefferson was a widower and dolly madison served as a stand in for him. it is true when there were ladies at the table, he would ask dolly and her sisters come in, although he had an official hostess, his daughter. concentrating or thinking about dolly as waiting in the wings obscures the fact what she was really doing during those years. thomas jefferson feared aristocracy, cut out socializing. he kept new year's and fourth of july but that was it. there were no parties where women and all kinds of unfsht carbohydrates, he called women and courtiers would appear. he had famous dinner parties with men of one party or the

other because he was trying to control power. what was happening on f street, secretary of state during the years, dolly was building a mini empire. that's the place in washington, i would say came to washington on an evening, you would see white house dark but house on f street was lighted and in color. that's where republicans, ambassadors -- she was building a political salon there. it certainly becomes difficult when it veeches to the halt but they eat at the madsons' house. it's important to look at jefferson years as not a stand-in first lady but she's building a power base. no wonder when james madison is elected, people are very happy to have mrs. madison at

presidentess. i think we can have one more twe to stay on time. >> wasn't it the unfortunate circumstance of succeeding him, more colorful. like truman succeeding fdr. people who liked fdr -- they would say toerr is human. >> james madison suffering compared to tall red headed thomas jefferson. i really think, although i'm certain it's that, in this millieu, i think anybody would have gotten it. the republican party was suffering the disease of the victors, which is in-fighting. with thomas jefferson sort of sweeping into town with this new party, the federalists were on their way out. they weren't going to let go without a fight but they were still on the way out. instead of holding together, the

wife of mitchell from new york said why do they keep fighting. they are trying to pull and splinter with him. james madison's greatest enemies were his fellow republicans. so thank you very much. we're back live at the decatur house as the conference commemorating war of 1812 and burning of washington. this is day two of a two-day conference. another day long presentation by historians and authors, geo politic and causes of the war of 1812, british capture of the nation's capital, president

james monroe's actions and more. hosted by white house historical association, u.s. capital historical society and james madison's mondtpelier. co-host of the symposium. set to continue at 1:30, a couple minutes from now of the presenters today, first up kenneth bowling, author of the creation of washington, d.c., the idea and location of the american capital. he'll be followed by at 2:10 p.m. eastern pamela scott who wrote buildings of the district of columbia. also william seal, author of the president's house, a history. andrew bernstein and nancy eisenberg who co-wrote "madison and jefferson." all that ahead live this afternoon on c-span3 american history tv. a note that all of today's symposium on the war of 1812 and war of washington will reair

tonight at 8:00 eastern again here on american history tv on c-span3. events should get starting in a few moments. we're live on c-span three. >> welcome back. as a reminder, c-span is still filming. thank you very much, c-span, by the way. you guys are great. yes, a round of applause for c-span. [ applause ]

remember to silence cell phones, keep talk to a minimum inside this room and outside. if you need to use the rest room. we're happy to see you back. i'd like to introduce william, who will be kicking off session three hosted by white house historical association. >> welcome back from lunch. i'm a historian at the white house historical association this afternoon we'll have our concluding session begin shortly. we're going to circle back to the city of washington, white house and capital building and then finish with a paper by andrew bernstein and nancy eisenberg, which is a retrospective view of