which is, you know, makes it all even more complicationed -- complicated. it is a two-year long process with a lot of civic debate. so, people's attitude formation, on this issue is complex. >> as you know, the american government weighed in somewhat diplomatically on the no side. i wondered if that has had any impact one way or the other, what attitude about that is? also, how has there been any

discussion of what the special relationship with the u.s. would be in the event of a yes outcome? >> it is really interesting, i remember the individual, it the day where we presented our new research results, gosh, we will be out of all the media today. we were still in. when the statement was made by president obam ait didn't move the polls either way, neither did it in january, when boroso made his statements, the substantial answer, i think, the issues about what happens in scotland dominate the decision making. we have seen interventions, i think, and slightly aneck do theal here, if you live in scotland, if you ever have been to scotland, it is never

fruitful to try to tell scotts from the outside what to do. there is relatively little response to that. it is not they don't care, that it dwnt matter, people discussed it. it was not what people were basing their issues on. the core issues for people is what happens in scotland in the future. those issues were discussed. they are not the ones that people really grabbed on to make their decision. >> i am joan bates, i would vote note on the issue if i had the chance. my question s if the no vote succeeds, is it end of the campaign for independence for scotland or will it happen again? >> that is a very good question. some people have said it will be the end of the scottish national party as well.

it is clear, there may be internal reorg, the role they would take is to campaign for the greatest level of evolution, if you remember, before the campaign started, the government advocated was, one about independence and evolution, the uk insistod a yes or no vote. they didn't want to, you know, i think the key thing s people vote for maximum, it wouldn't have worked. some of the parties would is have advocated for that as well. now, there would be negotiations in the event of a no vote.

some agreement would be reached in the next few years, evolution of power to scotland, i think it depends on the satisfaction. if people become more satisfied with the settlement, and the governments they get, the way people evaluate the relationship between scotland and the uk, depends on the performance of their scottish governments, off the people that represents them. which makes some sense. if they would be confident about that, and like it another run for independence may not be successful. strong dissatisfaction, feeting of people shortchanged. then, of course, there could be another attempt. not within the next few years, probably. the only thing that could be in the medium term, an influencing factor, would be the context, i

could imagine, at an earlier point, in the future, that issue would be brought back up. in the context of what i discussed before. it would take a while. how long that quite s i don't know. >> question down at the end. final question. >> i am robert. i am a doctoral stupidity at georgetown. in the future predictions more in the historical reasoning behind this. you mentioned a lot of younger generations are feeling perhaps more british, equally british and scottish, less fully scottish. has there been policy changes from the english that influenced that? what is going on in scotland that you think, you mentioned a generational thing between the internet. other factors that lead people to feel that way? >> we look the at what we have

seen an increase amongst the adults n being more likely to say scottish and british, we have seen it increase in 2012, 2013 other the london olympics, must have been. if it was something like this, we didn't see a drop. it started before. it doesn't seem to be something like the olympic games. there hasn't been much policy on recent years on the scottish government emphasize scottishness per se. scoots are very, very careful we have been involved with a lot of schools here, events for scoot students, and schools are very, very cautious discussing political issues. based on our research, that is what we are doing too casually, young people see schools as a

play to discuss politics. they said they would prefer schools would not discuss is it the rev rundem. if they discuss it in school or not, if anything, they are stub born and don't like to be told what to do. the political confidence grows when they discuss it. the scottish schools, any time there is anything about curricula for example that seems to be trying to emphasize scottishness, there is a lot of critical commentary on this. there is notice a bit more talk about the emphasizing of previous education policies, what does it mean to be seen, and again, education is a matter to scotland. little influence. i think those shifts are not -- i would think they are not strongly based on political things but experience. i would say, more recent needs

to be done. it is nice to be at the and a stimulating place to discuss that issue. >> our website will have the slides, after we make a couple of corrections to get in likely votes, they will be up in a day or so. you can consult them there. join me in thanking our speaker for a simulating presentation. >> more from the washington journ series on higher education, and the schools of the big 10. on tuesday, we heard from the head of the university of wisconsin. this is half an hour.

>> this this morning's c-span bus on the campus of the university of wisconsin at madison, ray cross, the president of the university of wisconsin system. thank you for being here. let's begin with this distinction of being the president of the university of wisconsin system. what does that mean? >> within the university of wisconsin system, greta, there are 13 four-year institutions, 13 two-year feeder institutions. extension is in all 72 counties. in addition to that, there are 180,000 students, throughout the system. 40,000 employees. it is roughly the sixth largest system in the united states with about a $6 billion budget.

sizable, public higher education operation. >> what does it mean that you are the president of the system? opposed to a president of just, let's say the university of wisconsin madison, one site? >> the theory behind the system is, they are meant to coordinate and to develop state in terms of sharing the resources and helping them more effectively, cost effectively deal with the issues that are common to all of them. we represent each of the them in the capital. they partner with us, on issues related to state legislation or federal legislation. >> you referenced the $6 billion annual budget for the university of wisconsin systems, state funding makes up $1.2 pillion,

gifts, grants and contracts, and economic impact, what does that mean? most economic analysis that impact, in terms of what it does to the economy, throughout the state, it has an impact of what we purchase, how other, who we hire, how that money stays in the economy that say direct and indirect impact of those expenses on the economy in the region. >> we want to hear from wisconsin residents this morning, we have a fourth line set aside for them. we divided, the lines, students, parents and educators, residents, the students.

we divided the lineups this morning, we are talking to the system madison today. how big is the university of wisconsin, madison? >> it is probably six thsd or seventh in that category in the middle of the big ten. madison is the third largest recipient of research dollars in the united states. it is a major research institution, ranked in the top five for as long as i can recall remember. it puts a tremendous emphasis on

research. we have seen the outcome of that in terms of vitamin d addition to milk, stem cell research, translating skin cells to stem cells, changes those into different heart cells, retina cells, research in the biosciences, it is a phenomenal institution, when it comes to research, and energy, and areas like that it has been active in weather station activity. it i think we have 18 noble prize winners, engineering, and chemistry. medicine, physics, it is a major research institution. >> the university of wisconsin madison, the tuition fees for undergraduate, for in-state, a little over $10,410, out of state, $26,660.

the room and board costs, $8,600. who decides how much tuition costs? >> i'm sorry, i didn't hear all of that greta? who decides- -- who decides the price tag for in state and out of state? >> the board of regents has authority to establish the tuition. that is generally negotiated with the legislature, that is the university puts forward the budget and develops the budget, it does so in collaboration with the board of regents, that process of determine determining tuig s what state will do, for revenue in state aide and what we need to terms of tuition. >> who sits on the regent board?

who sits on it? >> there are 18 members on the board. they are appointed, some of them, most are appointed by the sgnch, confirmed by the senate. several of those are occupying positions as a result of their position, so, there are two student appointees from it governor's office. the superintendent sitos that one of the represents from the technical college board sits on the board there. are positions like that part of the 18-member board of regents. >> have they voted to increase tuition every. >> no, currently, there is a tuition freeze. we are in the second year of that tuition freeze. we are proposing that in the next two years, that we also freeze tuition, we think we can do it for two years t does put

strain on us, no question about that. we believe affordability is really an important issue, given those issues, we have been working with legislators, and the governor's office to balance it off. so the state, the state picks up a little bit larger portion of that budget. that is a challenge. given the state's revenue situation. and the demands on the state budget, as you probably know. medicaid, and other nondiscretionary portions of the budget are growing rapidly. i think medicaid will go 17, 18% of the state's budget to over 30% in the next decade. that leaves legislators with less discretionary money, with which the higher ed portion comes from. >> governor walker wants a tuition freeze. the opponent, the democrat, concurs.

how many students are eligible for final aid at the university of wisconsin? the madison has dramatically helped n a few moments, i will meet with the fund for wisconsin scholars, a financial aid effort that has been helpful. they have increased financial aid efforts to help off-set costs for students, about 73% as i recall, gret aof the students throughout the system, receive final aid.

>> do you think college is worth it? students in terms of economic analysis, college graduates earn more, considerably more than their noncollege counterparts, in addition to that, the unemployment rate for college graduates is roughly hamp of what it is for noncollege graduates. there is a definite distinguishing characteristic, economically. i don't think it should be measured only on economic scale. the value of a university of education goes beyond that it is important to understand what it means to have an educated

citizenry. that is the fundamental, i think the fundamental piece of what a higher education experience is all about. earnings, and economic impact on the family, the state, is important. i think it is also important in the state of wisconsin, where we have about 150 to 170,000 vacant job positions right now it is important for the university to help to create high impact talent to address those needs. 40% of those positions require a bacheloriet degree. good writing, good critical thinking skills, et cetera. >> to phone calls, pam, go ahead. >> caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. good morning president cross, i am calling in regard to your

statement and reference to our university as a premier and progressive research institution. i was surprised to learn that myat mamatder they take pride is is performing archaic experiments on baby monkeys. a petition started, 200,000 have signed that, it appears i am not alone. i am calling to see how you reconcile this in the testing that so many researchers are calling unnecessary, cruel and out-date wide our image and reputation as a progressive school. >> thank you, pam. that process that one goes through, on a university campus to secure approval to do research of that type is very extensive. as i recall there, are four different levels, and the

faculty that review that come from all different disciplines, it is a rigorous process. the need for this has to be warranted through that process. that is handled here at the madison campus what i consider to be very diligent people. so, that process has been underway, the research program has been through that process. so, i think we have to let that process guide us. secondly, i am aware of these concerns, and i have received those. we are taking those very seriously. we are sharing those with the board. we are re-evaluating this. we are concerned about this. thank you, pam. >> president cross, is there federal oversight. does the federal government has a -- have a say in that?

there is a serious oversight process, that is a part of this, too. gret a. >> how does that process work? if you are doing lab work, or animals are involved, human research involved. how, there are protocols they audit that on a regular basis and establish the processes that help to guide that. >> thank you for c-span, i fairly simple question. my son is going to a college, a

state college here in minnesota, we have heard of a collaboration between north carolina. >> a reciprocity agreement

negotiatad the state level, we currently have that. >> the big ten bus tour started out at the university of minnesota last week. if you missed that, go to the website, c-span.org, we are doing a month-long series of interviews with presidents from different big ten universities and today's c-span bus is at the university of wisconsin madison. we are taking your questions and comments about higher education, the wisconsin system president:

my biggest concerns was that it seem thad this did not pass full commitment, and only went to a subcommittee without full approval, is that your recollection of what transpired? >> it is my understanding that it did go through the entire process. at this point, at least, i am not sure it has started, i am sure it has gone through. i think it has gone through the entire process.

>> what are the challenges of reaching students in the rural yashs of wisconsin? >> there are a number of challenges facing those students, i was reading about florrence, county in wisconsin, a high school with 25,000 -- 25 students. students. 2t institutions limits their a littles to do a lot of things i am sure they would like to be able to do. a number of problems facing rural wisconsin skuls are facing urban institutions. they are approaching them differently. both ends of the spectum. the challenges facing them are similar. how we deal with that, what we do to help serve those foeblgs,

is, i think very important. we are attempting to do more course openings, students taking high school credit courses, with college courses to help them get started. rural and urban students. we need, we badly need to make sure that students get into the educational pipeline, that they succeed and letain that educational pipeline, and connect them to businesses, and opportunities, both for their career and for life. here in wisconsin. that is a challenge in the rural setting and in an urban setting. >> with the cost of in-state tuition, being over $10,000. room and board, add on $8600. what about on-line education.

a new approach, based on what you know, what you can do. rather than, how much time you spend in the classroom. that kind of activity i believe has a great future. it faces a number of challenges. in wisconsin, and i am sure elsewhere, in wisconsin there, are so somewhere between 750,000 to a million working age adults with some damage, without a degree. that number nationally is around 31 million. now, if we can deal with that, effectively, i think 31,000- eye think if we can deal with that effective, it is important that we educate more working age

adults, not just 18-year-olds, so that they can participate in this economy, the future economy, that require this kind of education. >> do you see the future of education be it online or other technology, reducing the price tag of tuition as well as room and board? i am not sure. there are some examples where it has. i think that it has tremendous potential. it also has, it creates several concerns, ideally, it would be a blend, a hybrid, if you will, between online and traditional models, i think they compliment each other nicely it. takes the right type of student to engage and leverage to the maximum ability.

some students are just not suited for that type of learning. remember, we are focussing this type of education on adult learners, who cannot simply put their children in daycare and return to adorm and live on a campus. trying to serve them effective. ly. it is a different experience, it sent the same. what you gain in a residence experience is valuable, and very important. but, we want to be able to serve them with a kind of experience that they need at that point in their lives. i think that will ultimately have a huge impact on both them and the people throughout the state. >> jean on twitter asks this, of those students enrolled as freshman, what percentage go on to graduate? i am trying to remember that number. i would say that we probably

retain 60%. graduate in time, in another thing. i think at madison, six-year graduation rate is closer to 80%. it's in the 70s, as i recall. systemwide, i believe it's in the 60% graduation range. we're working very hard to increase that. i believe the madison campus alone has about a 4 1/2-year time frame for most graduates. that kind of degree not only pays a student and their family money, it also gets them into the workplace quicker, and it's something that we want to do, not only to make it affordable, but also to help our economy grow. >> what percentage of students are taking more than four years to graduate?

more than four years. throughout the system, that's probably going to be about 40%, in that range. i don't remember the number. where we are above the -- we're better than the national average. we're considerably better than the national average throughout the system. so, however, we don't think that's good enough. we want to do better. and i think it's interesting that in my era, most students graduated between four and five years, at least. however, today, many more students are dual majoring. they're doing a study abroad. it's a high-impact learning practice. they're doing internships that delay graduation. so the learning experience they are getting is much more enhanced and complete than it was 40 years ago in my case. >> virginia arthur is watching us there. >> caller: i wo the professor about the stem

cell research, if they're doing anything for stem cell. >> arthur, turn that television down when you're talking with the guest. president cross, he's asking about stem cell research at the university of wisconsin madison. >> i'm not familiar with everything we're doing, but i am familiar with something they're doing with what i've called non-differentiated stem cells. they're trying to take skin cells and convert them into stem cells, which then can be converted into specific cells, heart, i know of one project on creating retina cells from those stem cells. so those are some of the broader research projects that i'm aware of involving stem cells. >> susy is next in springfield.

hi, susy. >> caller: hi. i have two questions. sometimes universities have issuesññ related to those adv senior faculty, having contact with undergraduates. i'm wondering how many adjunct or pre-course professors teach undergraduates. and the second question is, i'm also understanding that the number of majors an institution has impacts the cost. how many majors in each discipline, or what's the most popular majors, and have you had to eliminate majors for costs? thanks. >> i think if i understand ite correctly, the question correctly, there's two parts. one is how many senior faculty teach freshmen courses. that's a mixture. i think we're very similar to most institutions.

that process is focused on making sure students do well, balancing that with their ability to interact with prominent quality faculty. the second part of that has to do with popular majors, et cetera. in the last five or six years, those majors related to the stem field science technology, engineering and math, including some areas of art, the demand for those disciplines has gone up somewhere around 15%. unfortunately, the number of faculty serving those fields has remained about the same. so one of our challenges is to increase the number of faculty in those critically important fields that the state badly needs to better serve those students, and to serve employers in some sense, and an indirect

sense in the economy of the state. that's a challenge for us. i think it's a big challenge for most universities. we're working very hard to do that. that's part of our budget initiative in the coming biennium. >> jody wants to know, are corporations letting schools know what they need so universities can produce them? and why not, if they're not? >> i didn't understand the question, greta. could you say it again, please? >> are corporations letting schools like yours know what they want? what they need from workers? >> yes. it's also important, particularly in wisconsin, that wisconsin that we reach out to them. too often, we're too passive in in not seeking the input on what they happen to need.

in wisconsin, we have aggregate data for the state and we look macrosense. but there are regional differences throughout the seven terms ofn the state in what employers need. and while that is -- i want's important to do that. agree with that. we're working on this. one of my initiatives to more connect the university to what the corporations in the state need. serve those needs. we have a broader purpose in educating the complete adult. that's the complete person.a pup that's part of our challenge. >> charlotte is watching us in chicago. a parent there.host: go ahead, charlotte. , >> caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. as a parent, i can tell you that debt. we hco-signed for a lot of his s loans. unfortunately we were caught up in the perfect storm, because ie started ao;[çsw real estate it

company about two or three yeara before the real estate market e crashed. so we lost all our money, real e because of that.so we lo and my son was in college at ths time. and so we -- he had some money initially to start to pay for his college, but then we were i unable toto once the real estath market crashed.o so heon had to take out loans a we had to co-sign for the loans, for some reason he wasn't able to get loans in his name.to so we have really been paying for college in a sense since he started in 2005. so we're -- it's just been unbelievable. and weying reached out to the senator, and he and senator out warren are very focused on the suffering. i call it suffering, but that's really what it feels like, that families are going through, trying to pay off these bills.os and one of the issues i have is the interest that's being charged on the college debt. it's about 8%.

and my husband co-signed for about $58,000 in loans for my son. by the time he was out of usband college, because the interest rates accruing, as soon as the a parent signs for those, guess we were so overwhelmed by pe real estate market situation, we weren't even focusing on that. overw so by the time my son got out of college, some of the loans, and there were more than this, it was -- we were at about $66,000. >> charlotte, w(!dñ did your son go to school?so >> he started off -- his first d semester was at purdue.irst there, he was almost afraid to tell me that he wasn't happy there. and i couldn't tell him how ll e happy i was to hear that. because of the cost of it. that was about $20,000 that us firste of semester. of it. and then he went to two and a half years$2 of community colle. >> charlotte, i'm going to leave

it there and have the university of wisconsin system ray cross >> charlotte, i understand and sympathize with that challenge you're facing. my sympathy, my heart goes out to you in terms of the market crash. things that are circulating in the capital that are important w72ç

think it's important that when the clock starts impacts that interest rate and your payments. situation, it would have been some accommodation with respect to your employment. and the earnings that you're making. and then thirdly, i think it's also important to note that the financial aid process, which is based entirely on what you thatt earned in the last year, not entirely, but heavily on that, when it changes quickly, that te can be calculated differently. a challenge,that's and i think there are several folks working on it. so i appreciate your -- the lks challenges you're facing, and u- also want you to know that y several folks areou working on that. >> we'll go to sue next in illinois. a parent at.there. hi, sue. >> caller: hi, how are you sue e doing? >> good morning. >> caller: one of my questions would be, are you going to attempt to do affirmative action like the university of michigan? i do believe that you're going

to hurt your own kind in the unv longer run, because the asians d people from india are going to skyrocket in those grades. already in this local area they've already hired more people from india and asia, in their engineering departments, because they're cheaper. and what is your stance on that? >> the university of wisconsin believes strongly in having a diverse population on the campus. a ha population that allows us engage in different ways of thinking and doing things.pulati so it's not just diversity in terms of what one traditionally thinks of, it also is much e broader than that. one of the mottos here at the university of wisconsin, which b is actually on a black around the campus, and it's using gricl

issues to find the truth. i think that occurs most an effectively when you're civilly engaged in discussions, and iviy interaction with people who are -- who are different, who tt thiniok differently, who explor, things together in a way that's to pursue the truth. that process is constantly being reviewed and how we do that. academic prowess is of the greatest importance for those of those students seeking admission to madison. t and several other of our . campuses. but we look atat broader thingss well. we also want tongs know, what's their potential for leadership, how engaged are they with the community, what's their commitment to serving others. those issues impact admissions

heavily. so then we do also look at diversity, in terms of the broad category that i would call incluesivity. up next, the head of the university of iowa, another part of our series on higher tweet education, and the schools of the big ten. this is a half hour. >> and this week we have kicked off a month-long series, lookin. at the big ten universities, and interviewing their president, giving you a chance to talk with some of these university presidents.ity this is a c-span bus tour.pr and this month -- this morning, the c-span bus is in iowa city, iowa, at the university of iowan and joining us from the bus is the president of the universitys of iowa, sally mason.dent she has been president of that university since 2007.

president mason, begin by un telling us, what's the budget iy for the university of iowa?s thu your annual budget? and where do those revenues whe rrive from? >> the budget for the university of iowa, the total budget for the university of iowa is aboutt $3.4 otbillion. largely because we have a very large academic medical center that's part of our operation, including a very big hospital.lg it's a big budget. it is absolutely one that has continued to grow, despite some of the challenges that we've had, including a very large natural disaster in 2008. a major flood that impacted us n rather significantly and that t we're still recovering from. recovering in very, re very fine fashion with nearly $1 billion worth of construction going on in iowa city right now. the education budget, which is probably the thing that people are most interested in, is about $680 million. and about $220 million of that

comes from the state of iowa, $0 and the rest comes from tuition. >> and so an iowa resident is o going to pay about $8,000 a year to attend the university of to iowa, and out-of-state residente will pay about $27,000.an why that discrepancy between instate and out-of-state? >> obviously the instate est: students areob subsidized by appropriations from the state of iowasi. we're pleased and proud of thatn that continues to be the case.d for out-of-state students, we e know as a state university, knos out-of-state students need to t pay the full cost of their education. hence the difference between the instate and out-of-state rates. >> sally mason, you have proposed a three-year degree, baccalaureate degree, haven't you, instead of a four-year

bachelor? >> i have, yes.lor? let me say a few words about that. one of the things that we've been focused on for the last bo seven years that i've been here at least, student success and affordability. and clearly this is somethingee that's a very high priority foro me. i was a prist generation college student. first student in myr family eve to attend college. it was a stretch for us to pay for college. so i have a great deal of sympathy for students who are e. struggling. and looking for ways to attend college that don't cost them everything they have.llege so in terms of trying to make college haaffordable, we know tt there's a number of ways we can do things. are a certainly, a three-year degree . for students -- it's not going to be for every student, but itr will be for highly motivated students. it will be for students who are able to go to student year round, because we'll include summer school, and we have what we call a summer hawk tuition ro grant program thatol essentiall will allow students in this three-year program to attend summer school for free.in

this will hasten their progressn towards their degree.wards we hope, obviously, to completer in three years and join the work force after that time, or go ono to professional and graduate oo. school. we have awe h lot of great grad and professional programs here d that we would like students to consider. >> what is the response so far,s from thee students, parents, faculty? >> well, we've just announced it this week. we're getting a lot of positive response at this point in time.i we're still in thet process of developing the degree programs s that this will likely apply to. we want to make sure that it applies to degree programs that are quite sought after by our e students. some of the more popular degreee programs wil sl likely be inclu. in this opportunity. t for students in the future. ded >> we're going to put the nts in numbers back up. and if you would like to talk with sally mason, university of iowa president, we've divided the numbers by students, parents and educators.gain you can see themst there.ucator.

there's the university of iowa on your screen. 202 is the area code. we have set aside our fourth line this morning for iowa residents, especially if you've graduated from the university of iowa, we'd like to get your perspective as well, 202-585-3883. sally mason, how -- i read an article that you've secured, or come to an agreement with the state government to put a a tuition freeze on for a couple of years. how much work -- how much influence does the state of iowa, and that government have on how you budget, how you function? how >> the state board of regents, which governs all three stat

universities in iowa. they have a great deal of authority when it comes to help with tuition and setting policy and so forth. they're an important governing board in this state, obviously.i they're appointed by the governor, and they're individual citizens of the state of iowa in generally that have a great deaw of interest in higher education, and a passion for helping us ghe maintain a very strong education system here in the state. it's always something -- there's always something going on. -- i have to say, they've been very, very supportive of our moves towards three-year s degrees, of our continued efforts to make colleges fforts affordable as we can. affor especially for iowa residents. f >> is it worth a college education to come out of four ge years of college and have $50,000 in student debt? >> well, you know, that's a lot of student debt. i have to say that our studentsi let me begin with 40% of our le

studentst graduate with zero rt debt. which ise something that i'm ve pleased and proud about. and then of the remaining g do graduate with debt, on average their debt aver might be in the ag$26,000, $27,0 a year range. this is something that we watch veryis carefully. and we can actually monitor that amount of cmoney, and know how much of that debt is what we call true need based debt, versus how much of that debt might be related to perhaps ps lifestyle. and about half of that $26,000 is need based debt.ased deb that's actually what the 's act students and theirua families nt to borrow to be able to attain e that college education, that college degree. now, is it worth it?t? at that price it's absolutely s worth it.olutel i can remember graduating from a college in 1972 with about $3,000 in student debt, which at that time was about the price or a iccar. you know, an average car.

and again, our students are graduating with a debt level, for the most part, that is very manageable. i worry a great deal about the cases that we hear about in the news a lot, of students who are graduating with significantly more debt than that. we have great financial counselors here. we encourage every student and every family, even before they enroll, to sit down with our financial advisers, and our w financial aidit officers, and wa out a plan that will allow them to go to college. not incur debt, that honestly, will be impossible for them to deal with once they graduate. that's just not the way we should be doing higher education today. >> sally mason, what's the career track for a college president? you majored in zoology at the university of kentucky. had a masters at purdue. then a ph.d. in cellular, molecular and environmental biology at the university of ar arizona. what's a career track for a ari

college president? >> well, i'm not sure there is a career track for a college ther' president. i certainly came up through the ranks as a professor. i think once i got to college, the joke in my family, who, of course, no one had ever been to college before, that once she got there, she never left. t as far as my family's concernedc i'mol still there.sh still there.e . it's a joke, in fact, that i'm l still in college.a jo only it doesn't cost anybody any money anymore. i guess that's probably a good thing.ore. but my career track probably wao what would have once been considered typical for a college president. came up through the ranks, starting as an assistant professor. went through the ranks to full professor. took on some administrative jobs along the way, serving as a department head, dean of a very large college, and provost at purdue university, and now with the privilege to serve for the last seven-plus years as the president of the university of y

iowa. my big ten roots are strong. perhaps that comes from my mother's roots from going back to indiana. >> sally mason, your job, how :s much time is spent fund-raising, how much time is spent being thu administrator, et cetera, et cetera? >> yeah. well, being college president today is very, very different from what it was probably 50 yearli years ago. we're in the midstif of a largee capital campaign. the largest in the history of ci the state of iowa.of certainly the largest in the history of the university of iowa. we're in the process of raising $1.7 billion in the iowa foreveo campaign. we're about $1.3 billion on the way to that goal of $1.7 billion. a lot of that money is being thm raised to provide scholarships for students, to provide professorships, to provide infrastructure, that will allow the excellence of the university

of iowa to continue well on into the future.sity o it's a joy for me to be able to connect with so many alumni, jy literally thousands of to alumo all across the country and around the world who have a passion for the university of iowa. and whont have been so generousn giving back to us.ry have i spend probably half of my time fund-raising. and the other half of my time in administrative activities, in a nationaldm activities. i try to remain active in a number of national organizations that are important to higher education. that's certainly important to the university of iowa. it's important for us to be connected to the rest of our country. and to the rest of the world. >> 57% of college students today are women, 26% of college any response? >> they have room for improvement there. yeah, i think -- you know, i nt

often tell thear story to young pim that iro have the opportuni to interact with today that when i was coming up through college, and i was a sophomore in was organic aking chemistry, i was one of three women in a very large chemistry class. there were w over 200 students this class. we were veryñw obvious, as you might imagine.wo we had to sit in the front row all the time, because the instructor would know if we weri there or weren't there. he knew us by name. not surprisingly. today, you wouldn't see that.rig today the organic chemistry ee t class wouldha be much more heteroagainous, both in terms of gender and diversity. diversity is really something that a lot of us focus a lot of our attention on.it wha the number of women, college presidents today, there's room n for growth there. there's still room for growth in the professoiat.

and higher education is no different.eshm it's great to see the number of young women pursuing higher education today.g wome that excites me a great deal. we actually have some wonderfulg engineering programs here at thv university of iowa, and i'm very proud of those engineering o programs. having spent a number of use asr provost at purdue university, which is known for its engineering, our engineering programs here, almost a quarter f our students are women. actually unusual in engineering programs today. when i look at the activities oh these young women, our retention rates and our completion rates as well as our placement rate for those young women attaining those engineering degrees are mn very, very high. upwards of 92% to 98%. i think that's tremendous. i think that bodes well for the future. and i think our country will be well served once we continue to grow these numbers, whether it o

be minorities or women in these underserved areas. >> this is your chance to talk r with these major university itha president. we've divided our lines a little bit differently. students, parents and educators. >> the first call for sally t cl mason, president of the university of iowa, comes from an iowan and a parent. paul in west liberty, iowa. lib hi, paul. >> caller: hi.. miss mason, it's good speaking with you this morning. i have a question regarding, my son is going to be enrolling at iowa next year in engineering. so fall of 2015.ering. and i was wondering if engineering is going to be included in that three-year program. and i'll i take my call from yo. thank you.th

>> great. good question. we're going to work on that. because i firmly believe that there are some portions of our engineering degrees that we cana do in three years.tion. if he's highly motivated, and i'll bet he is, because he's e already thinking about this and knows what he wants to do, and y he's going to be a hawkeye, i ui think s.he's probably on a good track to be able to complete in that three-year period. we're going to do everything we can to help him. in including allowing him opportunities to attend summer school for free.ing >> dee dee tweets in to you, dr. mason, does iowa project out a decade or more what jobs will be accordingly? we bes

what we think the future might be. none of usk at has that crystal ball, i can tell you that. but one of the things that we rg have learned with our students a is thatt. having that opportunia to earn that degree in a chosen major is great.hasen majo but let's go a little bit further.t let's offer -- and one of the things that's very, very popula with our students is entrepreneurship. the let's offer every student the n opportunity to couple an entrepreneurship certificate with the degree that they're earning, whether it's an art degree, whether it's an engineering degree, whatever it might be. and what we'reit seeing is students with that entrepreneurial spirit, as well as the training that we can help provide them with, are often enp deciding that they can make their own careers.h ing they there are often great jobs out there. we know thear health care indusy will continue to boom.alth c we have great strengths in tinu health cartoe here at the university of iowa, training a r lot of students foe r the healt care industry of theiowa future. but for the students who really.

have that little extra creative edge and want to go on and do something, perhaps a little a l different, and perhaps a driver. for future technology, or futurf kinds of job opportunities that might be out there, we think that experienceial earning, the top 25 entrepreneurship programs in the country exist right here at the university of iowa, and we've grown that program so that every and any student here that wants that opportunity can have it. watching our students start their own companies is a pretty exciting opportunity for us as t administrators, too. >> sally mason, you mentioned ds the flood that hit iowa city.: m out of that grew the iowa flood center, which is what? >> yes, thank you for mentioning yesflood center. we're an educational he flood institution. i have to c say that in 2008, i only been president for nine id months when the flood hit.s

it was certainly one of the as worst natural disasters to happen to eastern iowa at that n time. our campus sustained nearly $1 billion worth of damage, including 2 million square feet of space impacted by that. three major buildings destroyed. but during that particular ace a event, i have to say that our rl worldar famous hydrology group decided that this was the best s dportunity they could think of to begin to study natural disasters like floods. and create the flood center.terk the iowa flood center, not only is known now throughout iowa, bt across the nation. and even around the world for its research on floods and flooding. they'rere doingse some they groundbreaking things with technology to help us better tc understand how and when and whyn floods occur. and obviously, helping us understand how we can try to mitigate, and keep these things from being the kinds of natural disasters that do to us what happened in 2008.

if you come to iowa city right now, we look like a city of d tower iscranes, because we're a active and full flood recovery. one of my highest priorities is that we make absolutely certain we fully recover from that flooo so we can begin to grow. >> sally mason is the president of the university of iowa. allen is an educator in tacoma, washington.rs allen, you'ritey on the air. >> caller: hi, dr. mason. good to talk to you.washin i'm actually a student advocate with the student loan up justice.org. and you might imagine my question is regarding student iy loan debt. now, the presence of the college also at large have been very to unwilling to discuss the issue at any length. so i'm glad to have you here so i can put you on the spot a little bit, so i apologize in advance. but i'm not sure if you're sure aware, but almost half of people out of college are unable to pay

their loans. and by my best estimates, the lifetime default rate across all students, all colleges for federal student loans is well in excess of 30%. and you know the other big numbers, the aggregate of the debt and so on and so forth.n ao what i found after looking at this question for quite a long r time now, is the systemically, it really comes down to the fact that the student loans are the cly type of loan in this country toom be specifically exempted of standard bankruptcye protections, statutes of limitations, and other critical consumer protections that we just assume are there. and candidly, i have to say that the schools almost never provide adequate warning to the students, in other words, the students never know these thingw before they sign for the debt. >> allen, we've got a lot theree let's get a response from dr. g mason. >> thank you for the question.

because i do think it's an important issue.t: we're fortunate at iowa that ou student loan default rate is about 2%. it's quite low.udent lo but there's certainly great examples out there of abuses of student loans. and by abuses, i mean, really, people not knowing exactly whatl the student loan business isy al about. there are also predatory lendere out there. we try very hard here on the front end, when students are enrolling here for the very we first time, to sit down with them and their families to make absolutely certain that they know what they're getting into,m if they decide to go the route of a student loan.y're and in fact, we try to steer ie some cases folks away from certain types of loans that we don't think are really good fort them in the short or the long n term, to make certain that they're not getting into get situations that would ultimately lead to a default, and ultimately affect their lives negatively for a good long time.

so it's absolutely an issue we should be paying attention to. we should be looking very hard at the default rates at schoolsg out there.ttention and making certain that the institutions themselves are doing everything that they can to help the consumers, in this case, our students and their d families, making certain that they know exactly what they're getting into when they do the student loan that they need for college. >> jenny in rainbow city, alabama. parents line. go n raahead, jenny. >> caller: yes.call this is dr. gregston. i wanted to comment -- i have a son who graduated from the n university of iowa. he got a degree in internationat relations. he was one of their best model u.n. students, won outstanding award from harvard. and he went to china for three years, because the economy was e better there, and there were no jobs for people his age in this

country. i was fine, i didn't mind him going to communist china. we told him china was not what he thought. the idea that cultures are full of great people.ople, th all people are the handiwork ofe god but not all governments area equal. the socialistll government,t in china is very, very -- a lot like hitler, stalin -- >> jenny, what would you like president mason to respond to?t? >> caller: what i would like hee to respond to is the college taught them that all the l governments are equal. he was over there three years, there started his own business, and was out taking pictures at a tourist area.ictures there was a battleship in the background. and a citizen turned him in for taking pictures there. even though it didn't say there. are no pictures.he s he sent seven hours in the f a

basement of a chinese police co station with police interrogating him. >> jenny, is there a specific question there? or do you wantht herer to respoo your story? >> caller: the education there was not accurate as to reality. >> we got it. sally mason?you, >> i'm sorry, i'm trying to understand her story. it sounds to me like her son had an experience, perhaps overseas that might not have been the best. one of the things that we try tv do at the university is to help our students have that first international experience with some supervision.ents h with some folks who areav very,t very skilledh at helping them understand the different killedi cultures, the different parts of the world that they might be going to.ts of anthd i think studying abroad tr

today, especially at most of our universities in the country today, are just amazing.universi they're wonderful. i did not have that experience as a student myself. but i would encourage every exr student who can, to try and take advantage of a study abroad, to immerse themselves in another culture, to learn what it's likn to be in a very, very differentn situation with a different government, with different with people around them. and perhaps a very different eri language being spoken, and maybe one that they s not fully understand. that first experience is one that allows our students to grot up in very, very interesting ways, and quickly. the experience is always life-changing. and it's onenc that i think wita little help, that first experience they have will help t them navigate the world after they graduate, and in many cases lead them to jobs that take them around the world and to different cultures. >> is tenure a good system, and

should it be kept as is? >> you know, tenure is an opportunity for faculty to really show what they can do, as well as an opportunity to make certain that they have the ability to do the kinds of things that really are necessart for all of us. freedom of speech, freedom of ft ideas, freedom to do work that perhaps isn't necessarily going to be appreciated by everyone.kt and in a particular case of -- you know, i earned tenure a long time ago in biology. i worked very hard to do so. tig i worked very hard to prove that i could do everything that was expected of a faculty member, co and to me, it was a real honor and a privilege to be able to say that i had accomplished that goal at a point in my career when i was still quite young.

and it is really all about hard work. as much as anything. and the rewards for hard work is to know that you have a sense of job security, that you have a sense that if you were to do some research that turned out to be controversial, thatme in fac that research would still be n t disseminated out into the public and valued obviously by groups that wanted to look at this research, and not have to worry so much about that, and i can appreciate that.ry i can understand it.th i can see the pluses and sometimes the minuses as well. >> milo is calling from jefferson, iowa. hi, milo. >> caller: hi. thank you for having me on. i'd just like to say there's been some serious questions, and really good ones. but i've been an iowa fan my entire life, as long as i can a remember. and i'm 63 years old.

but iowa city is awesome.all of all the facilities, they're just a great place. but i have a very serious question. and i'd like to know if you have any inside information on how many -- not if, but how many points iowa will beat themç2(ç cyclones tomorrow? and you can ask the coach please let mark weissman run the ball a little bit more. and ma'am, i want to say, we'ret proud of you very much in iowa here. and it'sve just been a pleasure. thank you.ry >> sally mason, i was waiting for him6=háo ask -- go ahead. >> well, you've just experienced something that i love about my job. and that's hawkeye fans.guest: they're great people.g i they're great people here in iowa, and all around the fans. country. and we have agr rivalry game llo tomorrow withun our instate rive iowa state. i was with the football coach

earlier this morning, in fact, l at a breakfast. we didn't try to predict the score, but i did ask him, my fans will appreciate this, i did ask him not to make this one ap quite so dramatic. a little less drama for our football games, would be a lot better.ll i will certainly pass the word on about allowing mark weissman to run the ball some more. thanks. >> i'm surprised milo didn't as for tickets. but how important are sports -- >> i'm sure he has tickets. >> how important are sports to fund-raising? to revenues for the university? i mean, if you were at the breakfast, my guess is maybe you were looking for potential donors? >> well, you know, at the university of iowa, we're one ot the fortunate schools where est athletics pays for itself. and again, a testament to the fan base that we have, the loyai fan base that we have, the

support that they give to our t athletics department. our athletic students on who ar scholarship here, and there's 500 or more of these, they pay the full tuition back to us.ese. for every one of those student l athlete scholars that we have. that contributes obviously to we the bottom line of the university when it comes to our academic mission. to the we don't pay any taxpayer dollars. no taxpayer dollars go to no athletics of the university of t iowa. we're fortunate to be part of aw great conference, the big ten conference. and the revenues that we're ablh to get from ticket sales, from m tv contracts, all of that, we're able to pay for everything that we do in athletics. on the fund-raising side, obviously it's a big plus. on the fund-raising side, our s loyal hawkeye fans, many of them are not only loyal to our athletic teams, but they're ma loyal to ourny academic teams a well. have some ed to amazing, amazing donors who have

really stepped up in a big way. i'd love to mention two especially that are quite unusual for us that support our medical operations. we have a great diabetes center here, thanks to the fraternal order of eagles, who made an hr incredible gift, a $25 million gift. we were ableer to name this cenr after them, and hire world-class director for this center, who is assembling a team around him with the ultimate goal of curind diabetes. and similarly, in our vision ula research group, the win vision institute fo r vision institute, led by dr. ed stone was funded again by the generosity of the steven winn. we are so blessed, because mr. winn who himself has an eye problem is committed to helpingb us, our researchers, cure blindness here. we're got great support on the

fund rising side, and it makes my job a lot of fun. y si >>de there's been movement at o of your fellow universities, northwestern, about unionizing r student athletes.northw what's your take on that? >> you know, i would hate to see that. i really view our student athletes as students first. our student athletes here perform well above, not only the school average, when it comes to graduation, and gpa, but also gr well abovead the national avera. they take their studies, and their academic piece here very, very seriously. amateur athletics i think needs to stay amateur. we need to be able to provide ad great environment fos r our am student athletes and make sure they have all the support they e need, whether it's support for d academics, or support to keep 'p them healthy. i'm all for making certain that we continue to add to benefits

for them, that we provide the highest quality opportunities e for them.ide th but i really would hate to see them think of themselves as em employees, rather than as student athletes. i think that really, it's not i what i look to college sports for. >> robert is calling in from tampa. robert, you're on the air. >> caller: good morning, dr. mason. thank you for the roopportunity. my question to you is, could you speak as to why universities are intentionally gouging non-resident students? and incurs higher student loan debts, the reason for higher s student debt. >> sally mason. uden >> yeah. you know, i'm sorry to hear thao you think that we're gouging out-of-state students. what we're doing is charging them the full cost of education, because the taxpayers of the g m state of iowa, who have made huge investments in theta infrastructure here, and they'va done so because they want iowa

students to have opportunities n in iowa, we're able to provide them with lesser -- obviously lesser tuition needs than we are for the out-of-state students. we have to really, in good conscience, charge the full rata for the out-of-state students. we believe we've provided an outstanding education at any price. our out-of-state tuition, ucatio although it may seem high, is actually still quite reasonableh we provide a lot of financial aid, over half a billion dollars worth of financial aid a year. so we try and make even all of our -- you know, if you're an iowa student and you meet the minimum requirements, the basic requirements that the board of regents has set for the admission to the iowa public universities, you are admis automatically admitted.lic un we take those who meet those requirements. and then we can select from

out-of-state students, we select obviously from out-of-state students and we try to help theb as well with financial aid. we have scholarships for all m w kinds of students. fro our donors are willing to -- fr have been willing to provide . scholarship dollars for iowa students as well as nonresidentr students. we think we can put together good financial aid packages to make this doable. not only for our in-state ma students, especially for ourke in-state students, but also our non-resident students as well. i hope people understand that. >> i want to ask you something about our viewers across the taa nation have probably heard of, which is the iowa biters workshop. what is that and how did it get its start? >> yeah. thank you for asking. you know, the iowa writers workshop is world famous, as it: should be. we have had the best creative writing programs here for a long, long time.writin we live in the only unesco we school of literature in north

america. iowa city, iowa, was elected in 2008. we're proud of that designation. we are embedded within what is r known asou the creative corridot here in eastern iowa. and we're proud of that as welln and again, the writers drive a lot of that. we've had tennessee williams, we've had writers that everyone's heard of come to our writer's workshops. write we have writers on staff right now that people would know the names. we're also very well known for international writing programs,n which was an offshootte of the writers workshop with paul offso engel, oneot of the original directors of the iowa writer's workshop, retired from his job as directing that workshop. he and his wife decided to start the international writing program, which every year brings international writers to iowa city. we've had several of the writers from around the world who have w participated in the unesco

program have gone on to win nobel prizes in literature. we're very proud of the roots and traditions of the arts, the humanities, literature, here in iowa. in fact, we're so proud of that, because we were the first institution to ever grant an mfa degree. in essence, it was invented here. and it was in part a response not only to our creative writers, but also to our artists. some of yoiau may be familiar w the painting known as american gothic. that was painting was painted b grant wood. he was on our faculty many, manc years ago. he was part of the source of this idea of giving academic credit for creative workwh. so whether it's writers, artists, musicians, we have g very, very long and proud traditions of supporting the arts and humanities here in iowa. >> sally u mason, we very much appreciate your joining us on our c-span bus big ten tour,

ma'am. this weekend on the c-span networks, our campaign 2014 debate coverage continues friday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span. live coverage of the arkansas governor's debate with former u.s. house member democrat mike ross, debating former administrator of the dea and former u.s. congressman republican asa hutchinson. saturday nifght at 8:00, republican govern for kerry branstad and state senator jack hatch. and sunday evening, jenny beth martin, president and co-founder of tea party patriots, is on q&a at 8:00. on c-span2, saturday night at 10:00, on book tv's afterwards. the director of astro biology, caleb scharf, life on earth and how it began. and author morton storm on his experiences as a member of al qaeda. and his later life as a double agent. on "american history tv" on

c-span3, it will mark the 50th anniversary of the warren commission. on saturday at noon, counsel and staff members to the warren commission describe their investigation. and sunday afternoon, at 4:00, on real america. the 1964 two-hour cbs special report detailing the warren commission's findings. with anchors walter cronkite and find our television schedule at c-span.org, and let us know what you think of the programs you're watching. call us at 202-626-3400. e-mail us, or send us a tweet. join the c-span conversation. like us on facebook. follow us on twitter.q now, a forum on the israeli-palestinian conflict hosted by the middle east institute. this is a little less than an hour and a half.

>> thank you owl for joining us. for this discussion. my name is matt duss. after 50 days of war, israel and hamas reached a cease-fire on august 26th. in the most recent count, it's reported 2,104 palestinians were killed in gaza, including civilians, 495 children. and 253 women. these numbers would mean 69% of the total killed were civilians. israel challenges these numbers. but the tabulation is ongoing. 66 isd soldiers were killed as well as six civilians inside israel. palestinian sources put the cost of gaza's reconstruction at nearly $8 billion. the key question for us today in this panel discussion is what will it take to translate the current truce into an enduring agreement. what is the likelihood that the

demands of the respective parties, israel, hamas, palestinians will be addressed in future talks including an end to israel's blockade to gaza and the disarmament of ha mavs. basically the question, if i can put it in one sentence, is how did we get here, and how can we avoid getting here again. we have an excellent panel of experts here with us. khaled elgindy, founding board member of the egyptian rule of law association. khaled previously served on the board of israel in the negotiations held through 2008. michael koplow is a program director of the young america %

among palestinians and among israelis that?jíj have been dri weeks, theqçóz73nm/÷i reconcili agreement between the palestinians, obviously some of the challenges that the prime minister netanyahu was dealing

i think on the surface it seems pretty clear that the main -- at least superficially, the main impact we've seen is that hamas has become stronger domestically. if obviously militarily weakened. but politically it has been strengthened. and that has happened at the expense of the palestinian authority, and president mahmoud abbas in particular. who has played a very minimal role in the events in gaza, and

was quite -- was seen, i think -- was marginalized through the process and seen as ineffective. some of you may have seen a recent poll by the palestinian -- you never know the full name -- palestinian center for research and surveys operation, which essentially verified this new picture on the ground. hamas went from being very, very weak, probably the weakest it has ever been before the war, to being quite strong, at least having a very strong show of support, particularly by palestinians in the west bank. but also within gaza, it also holds true. the reality is, that hamas' resistance, whatever we may think of it, has been more effective than mahmoud abbas'

approach, which has been essentially focused on diplomatic process. and he's been ineffective not just in gaza, but you have to look at it in the context of the broader middle east peace process, which is his bread and butter. he is all about his credibility, his legitimacy rests on his ability to negotiate a two-state solution. and obviously, that hasn't gone all that well. the reality also is that neither side, neither hamas nor fatah, has delivered all that much on the ground in terms of services or governance, or even the broader goal of national liberation. but to a certain extent, hamas at least momentarily has been able to restore some sense of palestinian pride, and i think it's important not to underestimate the importance of these intangibles. for both hamas and fatah. the symbolism is very important

for a national liberation movement. we have to think of palestinians in that sense, as opposed to a government or a state, which, of course, they are not. at the end of the day, hamas' new-found popularity might be fleeting, but currently i think it's at least more than what mahmoud abbas has going for him. since his credibility, as i said, rests almost entirely on the negotiations process, and bringing about a two-state solution, which is dependent on the u.s. beneath the surface, i think the picture is a little bit more complicated. if you look at both within hamas and within the p.a.,/plo/fatah, the lines between them have been blurred over the years, if you look inside, you see internal cleavages within both camps, really. and those, i think, have been

exacerbated by this conflict. on the hamas side, you have this division between the leadership inside gaza, this leadership inside gaza. and you have a distinction between the territory of palestine. that i think was exacerbated during the war we saw at various moments, it wasn't clear who was calling the shots. there are other ways also to think of it in terms of radicals and prak matists, all these internal cleavages, i think, have been intensified by the conflict and need to be worked out. the same is true on the side -- the other side of the kplit

political equation and palestine the pa and plo are notoriously dysfuncti dysfunctional. feta itself is in disarray. that has been true for a long time. but also i think more specifically to the gaza conflict, we have seen -- i wouldn't call it isolation, but we have seen he's becoming a little bit more alone, i thin think -- that is dependent on the united states where others in the inner circle of the pa leadership are beginning to realize that that is a dead end. and so he is sort of the last remaining oldout in terms of the american-led so on the one hand

hamas have grown. stronger or weaker vis-a-vis each other, but at the same time both have been weakened in absolute terms in terms of the broader palestinian political arena. that's problematic because we don't currently have viable alternatives to hamas and we have not yet seen a credible or viable third way or however we want to determine. in that sense, we have to look at palestinian politics in the context of broader air politics and i think the trend within palestinian politics reflect the trend in the broader world. specifically political dysfunction. the same sorts of contradictions

and tensions that it led to the -- what we used to call the arab spring or what was the arab spring also exists in palestinian society. there are legitimacy crises. this is true across the region. there are dysfunctional or nonfunctioning political institutions or state institutions and in the case of the palestinians both the pa and plo you have this generational divide where a new generation of leaders or a new generation has very different set of demands and expectations than their elders have allowed for. so all of this, i think, does not necessarily bode well for palestinian politics. it's one reason why i think we haven't seen a third because we do need political forces to make

that -- to be able to sustain. we do need a credible structure on the ground and for one reason or another, the two main groups are not necessarily interested and interested in much more narrow ways than would be needed for mass mobilization. i would say that the priority now needs to be on -- not on negotiations and not on resistance, but on fixing the palestinian house, putting the palestinian house back in order. first and foremost because i think gaza depends on it. i think it's impossible to envision any sort of reconstruction much less an improvement in gaza without genuine and practical hamas pa

cooperation on the ground. and we see that reflected in the terms of the cease-fire where it's clear now, it was clear even before the war, that there needs to be a return of the pa to gaza in order to allow the borders to be opened and that requires consent in one form or another if not their active participation and support. so reconciliation and reconnecting gaza is essential for gaza to be able to survive much less grow. in the longer term sense, the movement is in crisis and depends on it, depends on fixing these -- we're not just talking about reforms and elections for institutions like the pa and the

plo and i wouldn't expect given the poll results i wouldn't expect to see elections any time soon. i'm not sure that's a bad thing. i think throwing elections into the mix might complicate things. but what's actually needed is sort of a new palestinian national consensus. if you're focused on palestinian politics, palestinians need to rethink their, i think, basic assumptions of their national aspirations going forward. i'll end on this note. the reawakening of two important old/new palestinian constituencies first exacerbated, i think, or

intensified y eied by the gaza conflict. the cradle of the palestinian national movement, but also palestinian citizens of israel. we have seen the new role. we have seen this resurgence of palestinian identity. among them a new sense of palestinian solidarity that was reaw reawakened by the gaza conflict pop both of those constituencies will be need to be akccommodate in one form or another. they have to be included in the rethinking of internal palestinian politics. baring in mind that gaza is, in many ways a cross section of the

palestinian of the global palestinian community in that it is made up 60 to 70% are descendents of refugees from 19 1948. you have political trends, so if many guyways, it is a microcosm of the national movement. >> thank you. michael, just to set things up a bit, you mentioned the recent poll we saw showing hamas benefitting by the war. i think we saw some similar things without drawing equivalents, we saw overwhelming public support for the war amongst the israeli public as it was ongoing, but having stopped the war short of what was once this dated goal of diminishing if not crushing hamas, which some were using. benjamin netanyahu shows himself

in trouble o with competitors to his right. . could you address that? >> sure. thanks for putting this panel together. i think it's useful when thinking about israeli politics and the context of the aftermath of gaza to talk about politics before operation protective age and before the gaza war and to talk about where things are now. so before the war if gaza, the political dynamic was relatively stable. there were no real challenges to the coalition and no real challenges of a serious nature to netanyahu personally. the head of the labor party has, in many ways, been the invisible man. nobody sees him or hears from him. more vocal opponents are

actually in the cabinet. so he was firmly in control. and the collapse of peace talks did not create any type of political crisis for a couple reasons. first, there were low expectations across the political spectrum about the peace talks. not many people expected them to be concluded successfully and the base, in fact, many people did not want them to be concluded successfully. so the collapse of the peace talks really did not present much of a challenge to bb domestically. another factor was the sense that the situation for israel despite many warning signs on the horizon from the u.s. and from europe was not quite dire just yet and that israel could afford to wait on the peace process until they were forced to make a move. the focus was on the palestinian authority and what steps would

be taken after the collapse of the peace talks much more than focus on hamas. kñañfya;sd]!m7 war was at itsa weakest point and netanyahu and israeli government assumed this was a situation that was going to continue and so much of the discussion was focused onç thea and what could be done to work with the pa despite the fact that peace talks had now collapsed and hamas has not seen as much of a political factor. then we moved to during the war and during the war, there was a huge outpouring of support for netanyahu. this is not surprising. any time there's fighting in israel, certainly initially, there's lots of rallying around the government. the second still shapes the israeli psyche in ways that has changed it possibly forever.

the vast majority of israelis will not tolerate any type of rocket fire coming into israel irrespective of what the casualty count is like and while rockets are coming in, netanyahu really had blanket support to deal with them. the kidnapping and murder of the three teens only added to what was already overwhelming support for a military campaign against hamas and netanyahu used the disadvantage and had a free pass initially on the shifting goals. depending on what day it was, the goal was to eradicate hamas, restore quiet, to eliminate tunnels. they were shifting as the war went along. at least initially netanyahu was able to do this because of the overwhelming support the government was given during the war. as the war went on and as matt

just referred to, benjamin netanyahu's support dropped. it went from a high of 82% down into the 30s. now in historical context, it's not so bad. a drop of 50% is still not something that any israeli leader likes to see. the reasons for this also weren't surprising. if you think back to 2012, the israeli operation was relatively qui quick. it only lasted, i think, eight days. this went on far longer than most were respecting. it went on longer than netanyahu himself was expecting. and as rocket fire continued and as cease-fire offers were either rejected, broken or lapsed, the israeli public realized pretty quickly that benjamin netanyahu

had no long-term strategy and that the airstrikes were not goirng to be enough and possibly ground operation in the limited scope was also not going to be enough. so there certainly was a sense towards the end that netanyahu perhaps had not handled things in the ideal way. now that the war is over, netanyahu's position is a bit less stable. the politics are pushing things very much more to the right, and netanyahu has to deal with challenges both within his own party and with challenges from the right more generally. does he look at the polls over the past few days, it's clear that the right in general has benefitted politically from the fighting in gaza. the latest polls have anywhere between 29 and 31 seats. at the moment they control 31, but 11 of those seats, are used

because they were made a deal before the election. so it's now in the latest polls up from 20 seats of their own to somewhere between 29 and 31 seats. the jewish home party currently had 12 seats. in the polls they are up to anywhere between 18 and 20. they have basically flipped with jewish home. right now they have 18 and the current poll are anywhere from 9 to 12. and labor has stayed the same. so if an election was held today, you'd probably have somewhere around 80 -- 70, 80 seats going to parties on the right. there's serious pressure on netanyahu. his position has never been

great. within the context of the politics, he's right winged, but he's not on the far right. as odd as it seems within the context, netanyahu occupies the left flank. the younger members who are asen dent are far more right winged than benjamin netanyahu is and they are upset with the way he has conducted the war because many of the right wing members who are all younger and in a lot of ways it sort of mimics the tea party dynamic in the u.s. the younger members think he did not go far enough and some of them have advocates to reoccupy gaza for however long it takes to stamp it out. which is something netanyahu is not willing to do. it's something netanyahu himself realizes is not feasible.

the chair of the central committee and who was the deputy defense minister until netanyahu fired him the first week of the war for criticize iing the government's approach is convening party congress later this month where no doubt it will be nothing but local criticism of the conduct of the war. outside netanyahu's party, as i mentioned, the home party is much more popular now than it was. bennett is taking serious strides to capitalize on that. yesterday he announced he would like to make changes to the constitution that will make it a more secular party, which is significant because he is looking to appeal to the wider israeli right and for the first time seems to believe he actually has a shot at being the standard barer of the right and becoming prime minister. .

and so all of these things are pushing him to the right. it leads to the announcement of the 980 acres declared state land because in the absence of reoccupying gaza, netanyahu knows he has to do something to protect the right flank and the easiest way to do that is to announce tenders or to announce long-term planning processes for settlements. they don't want to risk a takeover in the west bank and the aftermath of this type of war and this type of fighting generally u make israelis more hawkish and more conscious than they would otherwise be. so the right word is not going to be a blip. whenever the next elections are and there's wide speculation it's in the next year, i have very little doubt that the right wing parties are going to

increase their share in the government whether that means a larger or that le kud suffers at the hand. there's likely going to be a more right wing next time than this time. and of course, that's going to impact israel real's relations going forward and the peace process more generally. >> i'm going to turn to joe now to address some of the international humanitarian law issues relating to not only the war, although i think the conduct of the war the bombardment by israel, the use of rocket fire and mortars by hamas, but also the policy of blockade. one of the key elements here is demands was using the blockade. it's worth remembering it was a condition of the 2012 cease-fire that was not i want plemted. this is going to be one of the

most important items for discussion in the talks that i very much hope will take place in e yipt and that everyone get. s to plan to take place in several weeks. that's a lot on your plate. so if you'll take a crack at that. >>. thanks, matt, and thanks, kate, for holding this event and for inviting me to be a part of it. human rights watch, as the name would indicate, looks at human rights violations by states, by political authorities around the world. but we also monitor compliance with the laws of war. the humanitarian law, one important component which the geneva conventions. human rights watch doesn't take positions on whether any conflict should take up arm, launch an attack, whatever. those are political questions we don't address. in part, in order to be able to

impartially look at how the fighting, how the armed conflict is conducted by any of the parties, the two issues that we're concerned with here before i go into some of the details is one is accountability. accountability for unlawful behavior, noncompliance with the violations of the loss of war. and the other is the humanitarian consequences of the war in particular and of the policies that sort of set up this conflict to begin with among which i would include what matt just mentioned, the blockade that's been intensively in effect since 2007, since hamas basically took over as the political power in gaza. really since 2005 with the withdraw of israeli military forces and settlers under prime

minister sharone. the accountability issue i want to stress because it seems to me it's the element that should be part of any kind of looking forward. it's what's been consistently missing in terms of any of the peace talk agendas that we have seen, no matter how unsuccessful they may have been. it's not because accountability was among the issues raised. it's been a consistent issue for us looking at the various phases of war. over many years now i think what we have seen perhaps a lis dispiritingly is we haven't seen much change looking from one conflict to another. 2009, 2012 and now 2014. in the behavior

combatan combatants, either hamas's behavior or israel's. let me just say a couple of words about what international law, international humanitarian law requires. the key principle is that of distinction. . you have to distinguish all the all times between combatants and civilians, between military objectives and civilian properties. and that may only target combatants and structures or areas that have immediate military u -- represent military gain. so targeting civilians is obviously sort of at the first order of prohibition. but then there are other areas so there might be an attack where there's no objective, either a combatant or group of combatants or a place, a structure, a building, an

apartment building where maybe arms have been stored or where it thinks arms have been stored making it a legitimate target in itself. but where the harm to civilians, the use of the weapons that are used, the character of the fighting and so forth results in making the attack indiscriminant so civilians are aren't harmed. understand sort of from the g get-go that civilians are going to be harmed and killed. the point is to minimize that harm, minimize those deaths. so the parties have to take -- to use the language of the c conventions, all precautions to avoid harming civilians. on the palestinian side, recalling also that the combatants in the gaza are not

only hamas, they also involve forces like jihad and some of the secular palestinian parties. obviously the rockets launched into israel were first of all the reason we would say those constitute prima fascia war crime in the sense of targeting civilians is because many of the groups have said they are attacking population centers, essentially and so they state the aim as such. the types of weapons they are u using are inherently cannot be guided or cannot be used in way that could distinguish between military and targ military targets and civilian areas, civilian structures. so o there's sort of from the

get-go you have a situation where the kinds of weapons palestinians were using in the fighting the attacks into israel inherently indiscriminant. and the fight in terms of the combat that went on inside gaza once israeli forces moved in and even during the air campaign, the issue of the extent to which hamas did or did not take, quote, unquote, all feasible precautions in terms of carrying out military operations from heavily civilian populated areas. on the side of the defense forces, the issue we have documented and i'll go into a little bit of detail, a couple of instances where it appears that civilians, individual civilians were targeted. civilians who were trying to flee a combat zone often at the

instruction of the idf. this is something we also saw in the previous conflicts in 2012 and especially u in 2009. but i'd say the issues on israeli side involve much more issues of whether the attacks were indiscriminant or not. so there was or at least idf alleged that there were military targets in a particular building or near a particular building. attacks killed large numbers of civilians, but a number of cases we investigated, we found there was no military objective. there were no combatants in the area as far as we could determine. and the israeli government in response to our queries to them did not come up with an explanation as to why they launched those particular attacks. i want to say a little bit -- first i should say that one of

the problems that we have had in addressing this conflict is a lack of access. the last time we were able to go into gaza was -- we asked for permission to go in the fall of 2009. many weeks before it started we refused. up to that point delays and so forth that we would eventually get in. we have not been allowed in through israel since mid-2009 in other instances we were able to go in after a cease-fire was in place via the crossing in the sinai between gaza and egypt. but our relations with the egyptian government are as good

as they are with the israeli government and we haven't been able to get in that way either. that obviously makes it much more difficult to do what e we think is needed in terms of conducting an investigation where you get to the site of a possible war crime y you can evaluate the damage, assess what kind of weapons we use, make a judgment as to whether that weapon was appropriate under the circumstances, talk to witnesses, survivors and so forth. our ability to do that is limited. we have assistance on the ground in gaza. residents of gaz a is a, but obviously the people who bring in the kind of added expertise that we need in assessing an armed conflict situation where issues of all