is in the context of this idea that they are a good muslim in comparison to the bad one. right? and so muslims, i think, we want these good representations or cultural representations that are better, but i think we have to sort of -- basically, we have to crush the pipe dream that if we act better, if we look more peaceful, that the people who don't like us will like us. and i think from that measure, we learn from the black experience. african-americans have learned that respectability politics, you can be a harvard university professor and still profiled by the police. they will still shoot you, leave you in the street, and then call your community animals because they stand up for your life. so these things will continue to happen. so it's not about sort of replacing one overly simplified notion of who we are with

another, but it's about creating culture production that offers something that's both excellent in its quality, but also demanding and transformative. i want to give a short example and i'm going to close with this. so there is an american muslim woman, she's a grammy nominated artist, and she's from baltimore, maryland. and she did a cover of a song that came out, i don't know, a year or two ago, by a young white british woman named lorde. and the song that lorde released was called "royals." it's like we're not royals. and the song many people read of a critique of hip hop culture, in particular in black culture right? and the idea of that all it's about is money and bling and there's no substance or meaning to it, right? so she covers the song and is a

dope mc and she's an amazing singer. so the song is excellent, right? but she also makes a point, and so i wanted to sort of share the point, one of the points that she makes, right? so she says, we don't know that old true blue blood slave money, war heroes take it to their grave money, cotton money, cane money, diamond blood, stain money, and then she asks what about that tax money, oil money, africa's rich soil money, so thick you can't fold money, british eats indian company money, old money, gold money limestone coal money. right? what's genius about what she's doing is she's saying there's a discourse at this country that looks at the oppressed, looks at those who have been marginalized

and flips it so that they become the responsible for their own situation. right? so you black people, you don't know how to spend your money. you don't know how to save your money. you don't know how to be married, et cetera. but she's like what about that cane money. what about that money that was gotten through the enslavement of human beings? what about that money that was given, that people still benefit from today, right, in those who colonized people. right? her narrative is both pointing to the particular critique or responding to the critique that lorde gave, right, through on sort of this black urban culture, but also connecting it, right, to the realities of other oppressed marginalized people throughout the world. and that i think is a genius that is representative of black

genius but also representative of american muslim jean use. when you think about culture, what culture is, what kind of cultures we have and what kind of culture we can create, i think this is an example, right, of the kind of dynamic incisive intelligent and really robust, right, sort of cultural production that is possible for our community. thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you so much, dr. suad. we did just get a tweet maybe for you guys to think about pit but muslim culture should by cultured through the lens of assad. why are we here? our unity means nothing without it. we can address that after we go through the panel lists. i want to introduce dr. sherman jackson up next. he's director of the islamic center for thought and culture and practice at the university of southern california.

he's also a core and founding scholar of the american learning institute of muslims. been named as one of the most 500 influential muslims in the world. the question for dr. jackson -- >> after that introduction? >> -- is somewhat tied in to what dr. suad addressed. at the time of the prophet, culture was a respected part of life. can american culture be a part of the muslim american identity? so it's as if we're battling two things right now. american muslim culture as it pertains to people who have been here for generations. a lot of the stuff we're going through has already been done before. what about the muslim culture as it pertains to immigrant muslims? where is the balance and what is the place in islam? [ speaking foreign language ]

>> i want to start off by saying first of all, that's not quite the question i remember receiving but i'll try to respond to it to the best of my ability. i think this is a very complex question and i'm trying to sort of read between the lines so that i can get at what i think is actually being offered. and perhaps one of the best ways of doing that is to pick up on something that dr. khabeer said. and that is that we are muslims. and before we're muslims, we're human beings. and as human beings, there is nothing more natural than cultural production.

human beings are naturally cultural producers. and we may draw some instruction in this regard from something that the prophet said. the prophet says that the most truthful -- not the best, but the most truthful names for a human being are two. one is the one who's constantly toiling. human beings toil. they work. they occupy themselves with production. the other one is the one who is anxious. and culture production in some ways is really about taking the edge off the sort of cosmic anxiousness that we feel as human beings. this is why the german

philosopher once said that it is where do we come from, why are we here, where are we going, he said, that is the mother of all culture. and all human beings are involved in that. in terms of the whole enterprise of producing culture, i don't think that is our problem because we're just as human as anybody else. but i think that we have a number of hangups, if i might be permitted to use that word. and those are as following. on the one hand, we are, as an american muslim community, in a sense in a transitionary phase. in some ways we are stuck in a certain allegiance to what may ç

be called a back home culture, a back home expression of islam. by the way, you don't have to be an immigrant to have that attachment. many converts are equally attached to that because they don't know of any alternative to that back home compression as to what is likely to be accepted or recognized as quote unquote islamic culture. and then we have the other side of the equation where we are a bit anxious about this whole business of too ready or too intimately identifying with a sort of culture production that might be just a bit too comfortable in an american space. and i think that here, if i might be permitted to be frank, i don't think there's any point in having any discussion among us as modern muslims that seeks to do away with or ignore the reality of our history. all right? i mean, we are where we are today as a certain particular moment in history. and that is a post colonial moment.

that is a post-slavery moment. and those moments produce their own sort of dynamic. and part of that dynamic is ensuring that we no longer are seeing or see ourselves as the object of some other's will. and that can put us in a position where we're not quite sure where to draw the boundary between well, how much of this american thing can we partake of and how much must we reject. how much must we keep a hold of and how much can we dump off in the atlantic on our way over. that's part of the challenge that we face. the other challenge that we face -- how long do i have? >> seven minutes. >> seven more? that's generous. the other challenge that we face, you know, has to do with this whole appendage of islamic. and here i think i'm going to shock some people because i'm about to make a 180 of sorts.

but i hope they'll still be my friends afterwards. i think that there is a certain amount of diffidence, a certain amount of anxiousness, discomfort about the whole enterprise of cultural production, particularly cultural production in what i consider to be that narrow understanding. and by the narrow understanding, i mean cultural production that is really sort of about the use and deployment of our imaginative energies, our expressive energies, our inventive energies to sort of, to sort of take us beyond the everyday dredgery of everyday life. i mean this is leisure and entertainment. we think of art as culture.

we think of music as culture. we think of comedy as culture. the way we dress as culture. but this to me is culture in the very narrow sense. i'll talk about the broad sense in a minute. most of our conversations i think about culture are culture in that narrow sense. when it comes to culture in the narrow sense, we have some lingering questions. and i think it was in part reflected in -- i guess it was a twitter that you received. if we want to talk about music, what is islam's stance on music. how do we reconcile the whole business of musical compression with the parameters of islam that we understand to be something that we are responsible for in terms of how we go forth and charge the everyday realities of life.

so that's another challenge that we have. and i think, quite frankly, what we need are much more open discussions about these things. but i think the worst place that muslims can find themselves is in this never-never land where they're paralyzed. you know, i listen to music, but i'm not sure i should. i play music but -- no. this kind of paralysis can breed that double consciousness that is the depth of a healthy psychological life for any community. we need to face these issues. by the way, it's not just music. it's film. if i'm writing literature, can i use an expletive? all these kinds of issues that we have to confront. and i think that this is another part of the problem. the third problem is that for us in america, when we start talking about quote unquote an islamic culture, i think most of us tend to think in mono terms. that is to say there's going to be a single quote unquote

american muslim culture that's going to emerge and that's going to position itself as the overseer of all cultural production of muslims. we're going to end up with a cultural orthodoxy. i'm talking about some of us will have sort of cultural proclivities that go in one direction and others in another direction and both will be trying to claim these. we end up with underground gorilla wars among us as muslims. one of the things we need to do is recognize if islam is pluralistic -- i see no need to think that we will be monolithic culturally speaking.

i think one of the major challenges for us, espnraá)tj muslims in america -- if you look around this room, we're unlike, to my knowledge, any other community in the world. we have to redevelop a civics of pluralism. one that recognizes the fact that there are many different ways to go about this thing. when your way is different from mine, i'm not so insecure that i have to tear you down because i see only one possibility. you know, we really have to get over this. and i think that, you know, many of us in here, you know, we agree with this in principle but somehow we've not acquired the skills, we've not acquired the soul force to accommodate it in everyday life. when we go on here we see a sister dressed in a way -- we see a brother -- we hear -- and

we engage in these microaggressions. right? you know, we don't necessarily say anything. we let people know they're not really appreciated in our midst. all right? and these are precisely the kinds of things that breed the internal bleeding. you know what i mean? it's like, you know, if i insult you in a way that's explicit, i can apologize and you can accept my apology. you follow what i mean? but a microaggression, you know, a little slight, all right, you can't even acknowledge that i slighted you because then that puts you in a position of weakness vis-a-vis me. so you internally plead and you hate my guts. this is what we have in so many aspects of our community. we got to find ways of overcoming this kind of thing. so i think those are some of the challenges -- do i have three more minutes? one? that wasn't seven -- all right.

she's got a fast cultural watch. i want to shift very quickly to what i think is a very important dimension. one of the dangers i see we start talking about america muslim culture and many of us take this, you know, as an excuse to sort of whereby you know, run to our own cultural bubble as muslims. we feel good about ourselves as muslims and we've gotten rid of the sort of conflicts within culturally speaking among us as muslims. yet we forget, all right, that we are a smart part of a much larger society. and the fact of the matter is that while success in that regard may change the way we see ourselves, it will be limited in terms of the way that others see us. and when you're a minority in any context, racial, gender, religious, whatever, the way

that the majority sees you will ultimately affect the way you see yourself. and i think we have to recognize that culture -- someone did say culture is not just the culture, artistic expression in that narrow sense. culture is about the way society calibrates the sensibilities of its people to produce meaning and to produce ways of looking at feeling and sensing the world. that's what culture really is. and what we have now is a culture in the broad sense where the american people find it very easy to believe the most monstrous things about us. all right? that's not a manner of rationality. that's a matter of which their

sensibilities have been calibrated. that's a matter of how means have been created that make these things so believable about us. and one of the things that we have to understand is that we, as muslims in america, we have to acquire the ability to have an impact on that culture in the broadest sense. because if we don't here -- and i'm going to read it and i'll stop because i can feel you. this is real important to me. one of the reasons that it's important to me is that i think that many of us think that all of our problems will be solved by politics. i don't think think that politics is unimportant. all right? but if the culture in the broad sense of the society in which we live does not change, no matter what rights we get, the culture will interpret those rights and apply the rights in ways that it sees fit, not in ways that we see fit. politics alone won't get it. i want to read you something that haunts me.

it absolutely haunts me. this is from that famous german philosopher. if i can find it. you got me nervous. now i can't find anything. he talks about the fact -- maybe i'll have to paraphrase it. he talks about the fact that it is -- it is -- it is europe's duty to prepare the way for that time when the good european comes into the proper possession of his destiny. and that destiny is to super vise the culture of the world. he's not talking about the art and the music, et cetera. he's talking about the way we

see the world, including ourselves in the world. and muslims have to understand that here in america our culture production has to include an intellectual effort that rearranges aspects of the broader culture of america. because only in that way will we be able to get non-muslim americans to see themselves and to see themselves differently. we have to understand that all of this is a part of culture production. and i'll stop there. [ applause ] >> all right. you think i'd know technology by now. okay. well up next we have zaid shay kir. hey's founder of zaytuna college.

and several mosques. he's been a long time advocate of sustainable living and consumer practices. he's written extensively on these subjects along with a host of other concerns. he's been active with a number of relief and development organizations, among them islamic relief. zaid has been named as one of the most 500 influential muslims in the world. our question is you've often been noted as someone who is critical of cultural trends, particularly after a poem you wrote on the topic which seemed to coincide with the happy muslims that came out. can you elaborate on what the possible dangers are and what your solutions are in a way that one can be muslim or american without compromising either identity? [ speaking foreign language ]

>> so to be responding to that question, i think that we have to acknowledge there are many different ways of defining culture. those who have been listening carefully have heard several from the previous two speakers, dr. suad and dr. jackson here. i'd like to begin looking at this question through another definition, one that's been implied by dr. jackson towards the end of his comments, and that is culture as the sum total of all socially transmitted behavior. so in that sense, it's sometimes

broken down to the level of symbols, so words, for example. symbols, heroes, such as our prophets. rituals, such as our prayer, our fasting and other -- then then values. and the former three are sometimes seen as informing the latter but also expressions of the latter to a certain extent. now, as muslims, if we consider the sum total of socially transmitted behavior, our society is transmitting many

different behaviors and inputs that influence behaviors to us. some of those can be categorized as distinctly islamic. for those of us who are muslims. so those of us, particularly those who converted but even certainly true for many who haven't, who had that islamic moment in their lives where they consciously became a practicing muslim even though they were born into muslim families. those things are being transmitted to us by our society. i'm here in america. i was born and raised here in america. i was not born into a muslim family. i did not grow up in a muslim neighborhood. but my society transmitted elements of islamic teachings to me that enabled me to become a muslim. but the society is also, as dr.

jackson mentioned and implied, is translating a whole lot of things to us that could be categorized as distinctly un-islamic. and then of course there's a gray area where we don't know if the things society is transmitting to us are distinctly islamic or un-islamic. this is something that's applied by our prophet when he said, those things that are distinctly lawful are clear. and those things that are clearly unlawful, those things are clear. [ speaking foreign language ] and between those two extremes, if you will, are gray areas, doubtful matters. most people do not know the

ruling concerning those. this is the role of scholars. so to go back to the question, i think sometimes we lack either the proper experience or the proper input from scholars to determine where a lot of those gray things in that gray area fall. and that's where a lot of experimentation and a lot of trial and error comes into play. this is where i think the issue at hand can really be fleshed out a little, in the sense that we are muslims. we're living in the context of a society that's transmitting to us a lot of things that either are clearly un-islamic or they fall into that gray area. and our prophet goes on to say, [ speaking foreign language ]

-- one who is able to avoid the doubtful things escapes with their religion and the their honor intact. so many times i think we either consciously or unconsciously adopt a lot of the things in that gray area and they become grave challenges to our religion and our honor. now, our challenge is preserving our ability to hold on to those things that are clearly islamic. that's our challenge. and it's very difficult in these days and times. the prophet was shown everything that was going to be. and amongst the things he was shown is the challenges that

muslims would face at the end of time. so he said -- [ speaking foreign language ] -- at the end of time there will be days, there will be called days of patience. it will take a lot of patience to negotiate them. [ speaking foreign language ] one holding on to their religion, hear those things that are clearly islamic. one being able to pray five times a day. one being able to turn to the koran, one being able to fast would be holding on to a burning ember because of the many challenges. [ speaking foreign language ] the reward of one who continues to practice and act in those days can -- [ speaking foreign language ] -- is like the reward of 50 men.

[ speaking foreign language ] from us or from amongst them. [ speaking foreign language ] from amongst you. the reward of 50 companions. why such a great reward? the difficulty in holding on. so holding on requires that with our collective wisdom, not with any one set of inputs or any one understanding of islam, our collective wisdom input from our scholars which we are called to resort to -- [ speaking foreign language ] -- obey a law, obey the messenger and those in authoritiy amongst you. a -- [ speaking foreign language ] -- those who have political authority, that's legitimate, of course, and the scholars.

so this is a process that takes time. it's a process where in my estimation it's best to air on the way of caution. once things are abandoned, it's very hard to get them back. once things are critically adopted, sometimes it's very difficult to get rid of them. and as a community we are first and foremost a religious community. as a community, our first and primary concern is getting ourselves and helping other people to get to paradise. our primary concern is not this world. we have worldly concerns and it is beautifully expressed, and i'll stop here, in the words of the koran.

[ speaking foreign language ] after mentioning the importance of striving and asserting ourselves. [ speaking foreign language ] the consequence of that struggle and enduring the sacrifices that come with it will be your sin will be forgiven. [ speaking foreign language ] and you'll be entered into gardens beneath which rivers flow. [ speaking foreign language ] and beautiful homes and gardens of eden [ speaking foreign language ] that's the great triumph. [ speaking foreign language ] that's something else you all would love. [ speaking foreign language ]

help from allah and a speedy victory. so the great triumph is -- and as a community we're trying and struggling and trying to negotiate our way into finding within our various cultural context the paths that lead us to paradise. and that's a difficult process. and i think sometimes we're so traumatized with trying to figure it out and deal with all of the things that were mentioned previously by the previous two panelists is because we don't allow ourselves the proper time and space to work it out. working it out sometimes takes generations. and we're trying to do it in two or three weeks or in time to respond to the latest facebook controversy. it doesn't work that way. we have to sit back and relax. we have to allow ourselves times personally and as a community,

the space and the time to experiment, to engage in this process of trial and error. but as we do it, i think we should be cognizant of the fact that many of the filters that provide us with the ability and in a certain sense the parameter to gauge what we will accept and what we will reject, that those filters are provided by the koran. and those are the guidance that has allowed a distinctive muslim community, culturally and other ways to exist in the world for 1400 years. if we accept those filters, we'll continue to be able to exist despite the mode rate and what some describe as the post-modern world. [ speaking foreign language ]

[ applause ] >> thank you. we have a hashtag on twitter. it's #isnaculture. if you have any comments, please tweet it, let us know. if you have any questions, put it out there. nothing is off limits. be as open as possible. well, we finished with our scholarly panelists here and we're going to move on to the two panelists that are we that are in the media and the arts. we're going to start with alex kronemer. he's the producer of the pbs documentary coming up which will air nationally on tuesday september 9th. it tells the amazing story of a heroic muslim woman.

films include "mohammed legacy of the prophet", and islamic art, mirror of the iz visible world." these films have been seen by an estimated audience of 150 million people worldwide and are part of numerous educational programs that have reached over 25,000 classrooms and libraries. the question tonight is people think of culture as what we see in the media, so movies, music, tv shows that are consumed, those are supposedly american values. but for those like yourself who work in the field, what is the reality? is the programming that we see today really a reflection of society and how can we integrate our own values into the things that we see? >> [ speaking foreign language ] so a first grade teacher was trying to calm down her class

after recess. and she looked out to this very busy class, little children running around and she sees a little girl standing by her desk. and she says sally, what did you do during recess? and sally said, i was playing in the sand box. and the teacher looks out to the class and said remember, sand is one of our words of the week. sally, can you spell sand? sally says s-a-n-d. she says, very good, sally. excellent. put a gold star up next to your name. she's very happy. and the teacher sees this little boy jumping up and down. she says billy, what did you do during recess? billy said i was playing in the

sandbox with sally. well box is one of our words too. billy can you spell box? so billy things. he says b-o-and then he begins to struggle. yes, it's a tricky one but what's the letter that makes the x sound? x. go put a star by your name. and this little boy isn't jumping around, his head is down. he looks very dejected. she says omar, what did you do during recess? omar says, well i wanted to play in the sandbox with billy and sandy but they wouldn't let me. they kept throwing sand at me and telling me i should go back to where i came from. and the teacher said that's terrible. that's awful. that's blatant racial discrimination. omar, can you spell blatant

racial discrimination? now, that's a story and it seems to express something truthful about the american muslim experience. but it's also something that really if was out there and heard and understood, you really couldn't look at american muslim's quite the same way, particularly american muslim youth. and it gets to your question, which i would like to turn on its head. what i would like to assert is that story telling in the arts is not really about reflecting society. storytelling is about making society. we've been talking about a culture, talking about perceptions of muslims. it comes in the ways in which stories are told. and i want you to think about something for a second. think of all of the ways that you are impacted by stories almost every hour of your day. you wake up in the morning, you turn on the radio or the tv to hear about the stories that happened overnight. you go to work where you communicate most of the time in stories. you want to express your feelings to somebody, you tell a story.

you want to inspire somebody, you tell a story. after you tell all of the stories you read books, watch tv, go to movies and then you sleep at night and dream in stories. stories are always with us. in fact, cognitive neuroscientists believe they're letting us know what fact to let in and what facts to ignore. we should reflect on that for a second. because what it really means is stories are the most powerful force in human affairs. when dr. jackson early was

talking about the way that people have fixed ideas, you grabbed your head to say how deeply it was. it's because of the stories that get told. and it functions -- storytelling functions like it would in any kind of context. that is to say there are characters, there's a note. and so it's the kind of characters that we cast muslims in, both amongst others but also how muslims are cost by others. and i would like to point out right now, as we are seeing all these, you know, with isis and all these news reports and so forth, to reflect on this idea. that some groups, some ethnic groups, regions, when we talk about bad things, we look through the prism of victims. a few weeks ago when we were concerned about the children who were coming from central america, nobody was looking at that situation through the lens of the drug cartels and the terrible things they're doing. we're looking at it through the eyes of the people victimized. but when it comes to muslims, typically we look at those stories through the lens of the

perpetrators. those are the characters that get brought forward as the ones that matter. i saw a headline today written by somebody who was arguing, you know, about what we should do in syria and iraq, et cetera, and the headline was, the most terrible people on earth, referring to isis. the most terrible people on earth. but another headline could have easily said the most victimized people on earth, talking about the people in that same region who have been living under conditions of war and destruction and fear for a long time. but it's how we cast those stories. and of course the plot that we have. and many times the plot doesn't even include muslims. the film that was introduced is a story about a world war ii hero, a woman living in paris, a muslim who fought the nazis, defied them and died doing so.

and the reason this whole idea came to pass to begin with is three years ago i was attending a conference with other film makers. some of you may know this is the 70th anniversary of the d-day invasions. while i was at this conference three years ago there was a lot of discussions of all of these documentary film makers about all of the films they wanted to make about one story or another about world war ii. and not a single person mentioned of course muslims. that didn't surprise me. because i myself had never heard of any story involving muslims in world war ii. in any way. but then a surprising thing happened. a few weeks later both my partner michael wolf and i were screening a film at different ends of the coast and we heard a story told to us about somebody whose relative had been jewish living in france and who had

been saved by a muslim family. and that was shocking to us. after going to this conference and not imagining a story, hearing two back-to-back stories like that. we began to research it and started finding out that oh, my goodness, there are literally hundreds of stories about muslims just in paris. aljerian immigrants. hundreds of them died. the paris mosque that sheltered jews during the war. the hospital that hid shotdown u.s. airmen and british airmen and was awarded a medal of honor by president eisenhower after the war. let me ask you this question. what was the largest volunteer group in world war ii? it was the indians. the indians who volunteered and served in the war across all of the fields of combat.

when is the last time you've seen a brown-faced person in any movie or any documentary about world war ii. i bet never. >> the one that spike lee did. >> exactly. so the point about it is this. we -- part of it is also the plot. and do we include people or do we not include people in story telling. so i would say to you that it isn't so much are the stories reflecting the realities. it's how much are our stories shaping the perceptions of reality. that is the thing that we should be asking ourselves. and the answer to that is not very much. not enough. not enough at all. and i'll tell you why i think that is the case.

about six years ago i was at isna and i had a little panel where i was actually making more or less the same talk. and i was getting really revved up. i mean i was really hot. i was on fire. i was out there and i was yelling at the audience. i was getting big responses. there was like 300 people. and i was like saying, you know, muslims need to be telling their own stories. and the crowd was going, yes! muslims need to be in the arts, be in the media. we need to share our stories. we need to tell who we are. >> yes. >> encourage all of your children to go into the arts. and that is also a story that we tell ourselves that has great power, and it's story of what's valuable and what's not valuable. a story of do we really encourage the people in our community to be in the arts, to take risks, to maybe make mistakes at time.

but to really start to add the muslim narrative to the larger narrative. and that's the only way that those cultural things in our brain, the notions of who we are and are not are going to change. it is only going to change when we begin to tell our stories in compelling ways, whether it's in film, writing or in song. but we have to encourage that. and again we -- you know, the tweet that came earlier, we have to give space for people to experiment and to try and to expand the narrative. because it is in that expansion that the perceptions of muslims in this culture and the world, only then can begin to change. thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you so much, brother alex. well up next our panel is

someone who is actually involved in producing art and culture for popular consumption, i would presume. brother ali is a highly respected hip hop artist, speaker and activist from minneapolis, minnesota. his résume includes six critically acclaimed albums and performances on late night talk shows. he was keynote speaker at this year's nobel peace prize forum. he's currently tackling the topics that are discussed in his speaking engagements and work shops. the lyrics you write and perform are different than the tunes of the modern day mousse limb pop star. they deal with real issues right here at home. but there still seems to be a lack of appreciation for this kind of artistic expression in the muslim community. tell us what inspires your art and how this art can heal this

muslim community and bring them together. [ speaking foreign language ] >> speaking of stories -- well let's start with the question. i think, you're right, that there is a lack of appreciation and a lack of recognition. i'm very outweighed by everybody on this panel. what i bring to the table is my experience. my experience is that across the board and around the world the

reality of white supremacy, one of the most evil aspects of it, perhaps the most is that it exists in nonwhite people. it becomes a dominant narrative and it becomes part of the overall systems of domination that we face in this last time. we face systems of domination across the board of economic and, you know, cultural and et cetera. one of the main things that we face is the idea that whiteness and everything that comes from white people are the most legitimate, the most precious, the most acceptable, that white people are more valuable and white ways of living and expressing. on the other side of that, that blackness is not important and that it's not legitimate and that it's not valuable and that it's not to be honored and not to be appreciated. this has been my experience as a muslim american. this has been my experience as a european american person raised by black people directly, not, you know, figuratively. and raised by the black muslim community. and raised in a really amazing,

incredibly enriching and wonderfully developing environment. and then set out into the world with everything that i've been given both in my deen and also the way that i express myself in the art that i've been taught. the tools that i've been given to navigate the world as it is. and the second i got outside of that cocoon or that womb, that bore me, which i reference very sincerely, i started to realize the lack of appreciation that is too common to be a coincidence. both in the muslim world and then also in the world of art, that in america and also in muslim america, we have an idea about who is a legitimate american and who is not. who is a legitimate muslim and who is not.

and the closer we are to whiteness, white success, white anything, anything that we have that white people appreciate, we love it and we celebrate and we jump for joy. when we have a white person that can express islam in a beautiful way. and we have some that are amazing. when a white scientist proves, we jump for joy, we're overjoyed and so happy about this. likewise the people who allah chose to give his religion to first on these shores and the first protectors of al islam in the world were black african people. the king was the first of all of the people to actually stick his neck out and risk his political relationships to guard and protect the early muslims when they were having trouble. and there was a community of islam that existed there. and it was for a short period,

but it was a reality. muslims were safe there when they weren't safe in africa among black people. and this particular leader became muslim. and when that leader passed away, he stood and made a -- for him. also, the voice we hear, the sound that comes out of his mouth. the idea of his black voice has been cheapened. we believe that we're told he was the first one because he had a good voice. but we're also taught that -- he said who is the footsteps? this means that this voice isn't just the sound that comes in from the throat. but it emanates from a spiritual state and a spiritual reality.

and in america we're starting to get used to the idea that we don't own black people anymore but we still think that we own everything that they create culturally and spiritually and in human terms. and nobody ever in the history of america here expressing their rights as a human being without using the language that was created by the black liberation movement. this is true for the women's right movement. everybody that expresses human rights uses this. and anybody when they're in a space where they have to grapple with their nonwhiteness. and i have noticed this with people who are brown in america and who don't always have to wrestle with this. but when they get in a space post-9/11 and they have to really wrestle with the fact that they're not white, what do they go to for guidance?

where do muslims in america, young muslims in america go to learn how to not be white in america? they go to hip hop. and they use these expressions and they value them. this is true across the board for everybody. in america, so many of the enslaved africans who were brought to these shores, some were sold but many were stolen. among them were great scholars. the name booker t. washington comes from -- the last name bailey came from an individual who was a great scholar. and these people brought out islam in your movie that you made about it was incredible. and i love the fact that you told that story.

may allah award you for that. these stories haven't been told. and without any significant campaign, the first people on these shores to desire islam, to reach for al islam, to really risk their lives and give their lives to establish al islam, the people to whom allah saw fit to give his religion and make yet again the vanguards, the protectors and the guardians to literally make america safe for al islam were the children of enslaved africans, black africans. i don't know how many of us really discuss this, how much of this is really scene. there was a miraculous event that happened where people had been striving to learn islam and know al islam for so long. and when he became the leader of the nation of islam, i think it

was significant that i was in dearborn today and this is the largest community of muslims in america, primarily arab and south asian muslims. and why are they safe to establish al islam here? when we talk about what americans think of al islam, we're not talking about african americans. african americans love and respect islam. even if not all of them want to be a muslim. when you're in the black community and say you're a muslim, if you really live that, you're respected, treated with respect, you're given deference. and dr. zaid tweeted one time, she said i'm in the one place in america where it's safe to be a muslim, in the hood. this is where i got the name brother ali. because my friends were selling drugs. my friends were dying. my friends were selling drugs. i'm from the generation where my

friends sold drugs to their parents. i almost lost my virginity to a crack head. this is the life that we had. and hip hop and al islam saved us, saved our lives. and when i became a muslim and i was scared to live in this reality, my friends are dying, getting shot in the head. and when i wanted to change my life and i didn't know how to do it and i became a muslim, this is how i got the name brother ali. because when i would come around in there playing dice, they put the dice behind their back. don't smoke that weed around brother ali. peace, brother ali. this made the world a safe place. have mercy on him. he was born in detroit, the nation of al islam, the nation of islam was born in detroit. and why were the muslims safe here? this is a chocolate city. this is a black city who is being boycotted now the same way that haiti was because of the black power that they have here.

but why was, why was dearborn, why were the muslims safe here? martin luther king, whose last words, the last words he spoke publicly when he knew he was going to be assassinated. he said i would like to live a long life, longevity has it place but that doesn't matter to me. what did he say? i just want to do god's will. and then he was murdered. and the bill that allowed for nonwhite immigrants to start coming to america in big number bs with our deer beloved brown -- this was preceded by the civil rights bill. that's what caused this to happen. nonmuslim african americans made america a safe place for islam. when people stand up for civil rights and for human rights in

this context, this is the language that we're using. but my experience when i go places is that -- to get back to [ speaking foreign language ] very quickly. they had a notion of allah that a lot of us don't recognize as being part of our tradition. was just with minister farcon and the way he explained it to me made sense to me. regardless of how we feel about him, i sat with him and he expressed his love and taught for three hours. and he expressed his love and his desire to mo his community to al islam. but as a little kid, when he was very young, related a story where he prayed allah, we're not understanding you properly. please bless us to understand you properly.+++'wy