providers to get into a network is not ultimately what we're concerned about. it's more about patients having access and the cost they can afford. we will see through the networks a big reorganization and how the providers respond and that will be one of the most important to monitor. the providers are going to have to negotiate in different ways with the plans. a few other things as was mentioned before, we need to think about the issues that is narcotic and not plan specific things. that creates challenges and i'm glad i'm not one. we have to focus on that and the second thing is ideally, we would be able to focus on measures of out come and not

structure. things that were mentioned as opposed to those things on structure. i think the more we improve outcomes, the less important the decisions we make and the easier it would be to make decisions about the underlig adequacy things so we can avoid the most agree jous cases of where they are problems. in summary, we will not get this perfectly correct. there will be complaints for a variety of reasons. many are likely to be justifiable, but we have to avoid the temptation to move to a system that creates a creative network development because we want to avoid there ever being a problem when those networks do get developed. thank you. >> great. thank you. before we head into the q&a, one question for the three panelists. what do we already know about cost and quality?

if you comparing the narrower to the broader networks. do we have numbers and research that show us numbers in terms of cost and quality? one thing is with all of the data that is now available for research, what we are seeing is and what is being seen by insurers, in fact that higher prices for the services does not indicate better outcomes. they are rebuilding or fixing knees and the more they do it, the more familiar with the better the out come and because they do of them. and often the price of that particular procedure is lower

than it is for the guy who does one a week. if they do or two or three a day versus one a month, what we are seeing in terms of the outcomes is that often times the lower cost procedure is really producing better outcomes. >> the place for the network and cheaper. i think we also know that we have seen a lot of networks in the networks and the pricings are the lower in general and they expect my view that we don't know how to measure quality. a few things we do know and what i like to point out is who scores well on the care and five-star system that is one of

the systems that is leading the way on measures equality. i'm not sure how well it does that, but to the extent it does, who comes highest on the achievement under that system, it tends to be the a chp companies that are the integrated system companies like diane's company and kizer and group health. they do tend to perform better in that system. >> before you jump in, you mentioned the system and the federal government is looking at new standards that are similar. is that where we should be going? >> the federal government did hold up to quality initiatives for a couple of years and several different there and one of the main reasons is what they wanted to make sure that there was something else. there was a lot of work going on to align these things.

i think we are primitive on being able to. i don't know if they know how to measure quality yet. i think we have a lot of work to do. >> joel is right that the analogy to this discussion if you looked at the past, i think the evidence at the time suggested those plans were able to have lower cost and perform well on the stalt of the art quality measures at the time. the key phrase is at the time. the measures were not that good. the thing there is the narrowing of the networks. not the defining feature. the narrowing of the network enabled them to do other things within the organizations. it will be a mistake given where we are in the process now to try to generalize about these plans. i ensure there will be exceptional ones that will provide low cost and high

quality care. i am also sure there will be some that won't be as good. the challenge here is to try to set up a system that both identifies, informs, and monitors those that are falling on the part of the spectrum that we don't like. i think it's going to be very challenging to try to generalize about anything about what these types of networks do. they will be local abilities to manage them well and they will have a series of other tools layers on top that will vary. you are not talking about just the network. there is a bunch of other things that occur related to the managing of the care and a bunch of other things that define the outcomes that you want. we will have to live with that and decide the extent to which we trust consumers to choose

among est them and respect their choices versus limit their choices for various reasons. >> okay. >> we are going to open up for a q ask and a. i want to remind those who are listening on the phone line or watching on c-span 2, e-mail questions to questions@all health.org or tweet #network adequacy. i want to remind everyone that we have two on the ground experts with us. we have diane holder. she is with the university of pittsburgh medical center and can give us an on the ground perspective as well as alina

pabin in michigan. we have on the ground experts, so they will be joining in the conversation and you can direct your questions to anybody on the panel or just to the panel in general and when you ask your question, if you could please identify yourself. yes. >> i guess my general concern would be regarding centers of excellence. their exclusion, for example, if i remember diagnosed with cancer, for example, i'd want to go to a national cancer institute center of excellence and those should not in my view, be excluded for any disease. so, i guess my question is will in fact most of these networks provide access to designated centers of excellence for various diseases?

>> in pittsburgh, they saddled a case and one of the parts that certain facilities that upmc has, specifically the cancer facility, it does need to be in the network for both these insurers. i think the point's well taken. you might want to have a tiered pricing approach, maybe some pricing difference depending on where they choose to go, but i think cutting off completely access to certain kinds of facilities isn't going to work with the consumer. >> the initial treatment choice is the best and if you have that choice, that treatment, then it might prevent more treatment down the road. >> one of the things at the heart of the debate is what was adequate and you look the the outcomes and you want clinical

outcomes that are an improvement in many regions and across the country. we suffer from deficits and the struggle gets to the heart of what michael said. a narrow network is not a network. it's really what is it that people need a region and how do they get access to the right combination. i think there are some standards that have to be met in certain minimal access points and it has to be balanced with both provider and insurance competition. we're not going to get what we need if we try to stand in the way of things like we have in the past. >> as i mentioned, my mother had

a limb foe ma and cancer is one of the most complicated areas because of this notion that you're not going to know beforehand where you want to go for your cancer care. that may vary by the type of cancer. i'm very, very wary of a situation in which we force organizations to include providers in them because of what that would do for prices. i think and i might be wrong about this, i think that would be rogue towards some type of price regulation. to be in network is fine, but now we have to say what price you would charge. the concern is if we think there becomes a monopoly type provider. we have to think of a way to deal with that beyond a rule which is every network has to include this particular provider or type of provider.

in areas that are big enough where they are competing, we might have a different approach in a place where we have different providers and all of the network development with regulation to make sure they have access to good cancer care and in a way that doesn't give a blank check to the organizations to say now you can charge whatever you want and do whatever you want. it is the case that they may in fact save money to make treatment choices and has yet to be shown that they do for a variety of reasons. that's an academic discussion. >> i wanted to make the point that in and around the work we are doing, in and around the model, to michael's point, when a situation does arise where you haven't decided where you want to go if something bad happens,

there are formal and informal processes and i can think of one in particular where there was an informal process and they said i need to go where i can get the treatment and i need a way to get there. the long and the short of it, we made it happen and that person is alive today because of that. that's the role of the regulator. when those situations come up. in terms of rewriting of the model, that will be filing quick appeals for emergencies and specialized care. through formal or informal means. consumers when faced with the

challenges have an avenue to per sue. >> this seems like something they haven't had in a long time to compel the hospitals in particular to do more and align their prices in response. we get a lot of hospitals who care about the thread counts for their bedsheets and you don't see anything reflected that gives them the ability to say

wait a minute. if you want that, you can buy it. that doesn't include the four-star hotel importance. >> people thought they would and to the earlier point, they voted with their feed not to. what's been interesting, my copanelists can comment on it, i'm not sure that it was anticipated that on the exchanges, there would be such demand. the challenge is to separate out the bed sheet thread count from the excellent cancer care. and i don't mean to say that, but it is a question about what quality and separation we want and when we would want the consumers to have to make those choices. really having the discussion here today is how do we create markets that work in a world where information is imperfect and we care about the outcomes in a way that we don't for a whole bunch of other things, so if you buy a third rate cell phone, i'm sorry, but if you end

up getting really bad cancer care, i feel differently about that in a variety of ways. i think we will see and we should allow consumers to make choices for what they're allowed to pay to get access for different types of facilities in the network and the broad breadth of the network, but we have a lower bound at what's acceptable and we have to be able to regulate the processes around. so some of the things that might happen in that type of world are minimized. i wanted to say eliminated, but i ended up sticking with minimize because i don't think we're going to eliminate all the problems. >> dallas is an ideal place to have this type of competition because we have multiple health care systems. there can be good competition the way you described. the other side of this is some parts of the country, there's

one hospital, so there's not the same kind of leverage to use network strategies to drive price and quality. >> one more point. one thing that's another issue which you see on the pages of the press is issues of antitrust. so, one of the solutions if you are a provider and you see this type of competition is various types of mergers. so, in combination with this whole discussion will be aspects of network consolidation. we can have a whole other press briefing on how we want consolidation to allow we think is going to be efficiencies, but we want to maintain competition to providers and so, many of the issues that i think are in the forefront of the minds of policymakers end up overlapping and i think one of the themes that transcends them is the extent to which we can end up with a system where competition works between insurers and providers and one in which we

have to put regulatory barriers to that type of competition. >> yes. >> cms this year decided for 2015 that it was going to i think put in place more strict network adequacy standards for the plans that are offered on the federal marketplaces. it also suggested that in the future, they might look at specific standards around time and distance requirements. do you think they shouldn't be in the business of doing that given what you said about recognizes state by state differences. >> i love my friends at the federal government. >> but. >> i'm very leery and weary and concerned if they, if folks at hhk come up with some sort of a flor. i have regulators who would like

a floor, but given the diversity of market places throughout the country, what i don't want to have is an extra or heavy push by the federal government to get into the business of something that states do very well. they know the market places and the distances. we do a good job. what we don't want to have is friends around here to put something in place. they are already working well. and better manage because we are right there.

>> i would like to ask if the other panelists want to weigh in on the more or less work and what is going to happen with the federal government moving forward on some aspect. >> a quick comment, i think i agree with what ted is saying and we want the ability to do that and we certainly have cases where we don't have network providers and geographies because a doctor's office doesn't exist in that area. it becomes complex for patient who is live in rural areas and

where they access care and how expensive it is. as a plan, there is a way to develop measures and programs where you have a team between and those parts in the state. from my perspective we agree with the flexibility in allowing states to do that work. that was the qualitative standard and not a quantitative force. that's important, but having said that, there wrinkles with a lot more low income and people coming into the market place. there is a second part of network adequacy, the essential community providers who serve that population. we did start with quantitative regulations and 20% of the community providers to make sure that the provider who is have the populations would be

represented. i would be wary of where that goes. >> a question for mr. nichol. have the medicare advantage standards created problems. those have like five different levels based on the diversity of a community population, total population, failed or inadequately recognize diversity among the state? >> that's not a question i am well versed on. doesn't occur to me that i've seen much in terms of complaints on that issue, but that one, i'd have to get back to you. >> joel, do you have something

to say about the medicare advantage? you had mentioned it before. >> the medicare advantage standards are set for a particular population group. the elderly and to import them directly into the broader marketplace would probably not be the best solution, but i would certainly look at some of the principles that are there. the rubber meets the road for your group, ted. should there be some type of quantify kags and if we're going to have it, everybody that does it starts with time and distance kinds of rules. so that's going to be and there are those in the medicare advantage standards, do we need those or some kind of national forum. i certainly would be very skeptical of doing that at this point, but that is where the rubber will meet the road in the discussion. >> the medicare advantage example has one distinction, the existence of medicare.

you have this market backdrop in the medicare advantage world and most people do. i opt to stay in the medicare program where as in the exchanges, you don't have the plan that you can pick. we are worried in the exchange population. if there is a market place where there is not a choice you would want. in the medicare advantage situation, medicare relieves a lot of pressure on the regulation of medicare advantage plans. >> related to this loosely, they have recently come out with an accreditation of plans. how is that going to work?

is that going to work well? how does it fit in with what the other parties are doing? >> it's welcome in terms of what can be helpful and a love of the regulations and once the regulation is having the experience and trying something that worked on doing that. that was not my experience and looking at different things through and approaching the software and the regulations that are to be commended. i don't know a lot about those

standards, but they look to me when i skim through them to be more process-oriented and making insurers working the process of asking the right questions and having the answers on them. the strict bottom line standard which i think is good. >> i think you need to interpret the activity, which i'm supportive of, as a subset of enormous new movement to inform people and help provide information about these types of plans. there's an enormous amount of venture capital, a range of new companies that are trying to find ways to inform people about the different plans, inform people about the different providers within the plans. inform them when they're choosing plan, a physician. and you will see an enormous amount of venture capital and private efforts to improve the way these markets work. we are at the very beginning of understanding how well all of those new tools that take advantage of data and sciences. we don't know how well we can

translate the knowledge into the consumers many more important and how well they will be able to process the information and how that works through in the markets. you will see a lot of stuff being done by different organizations to help improve the markets. >> when people make comments, i can't handle that and how will i handle more. they are thes that create algo rhythms. they end up trusting and not the ones that say let me look through the data. they get on the thousands of pages of data.

most people will stay right on the surface page and say will you give me a recommendation based on the recommendation. i will start typing and you give me a match of a health plan and i say no, i will give you more information. the process and within a minute or two. they are running all of the data. it's not going to be the consumer looking at the data. it's going to be the intermediaries figuring out how to process it. the ones that will win, people choose google, i actually get the result i want and whoever gets the result like that and that's exactly how the venture capitalists are thinking about this.

just like google. >> one thing that may have slipped by, new information is is often personal, so it's not which plan is better. it's which plan is better for me. a lot of it is not just spitting stuff out. again, because it revolves agory gait i gaiting a lot of information, because all information agory gags requires some value judgments to be made to do that, it remains to be scene how successful they will be, but that is the vision that these folks would have. >> joyce friedman. with apologies. i'm going ask a provider related question. there have been some an ek doe tall reports about not finding out which network and findinging out otherwise and mr. nichol and anybody else, i was wondering if

there were efforts being made in the models to make sure providers are adequately informed. >> your question is more about providers not being informed than consumers figuring out that the provider is not there. is that your -- i don't know that the model will spend a lot of time on that. it's more going to be looking at it from the perspective with insurance regulators and looking more from regulating insurers and making sure that they have plans that they file with us are adequate and we are looking at it from that perspective reaching out and saying you may

think you are in this one, but you are not. that's a step where it's just not going to be in our wheel house to be going that far. >> in any of the comments you received from providers, did you hear about this? was this something they were talking about? >> that's not one that i have seen. >> the first thing i will double check on it. when i said what i said about the providers, i didn't mean to imply i am being unfair. i said i do believe the system needs to be fair. not the least of which is fair, but also one way in which consumers do get a lot of

information is from the providers. if they are not well informed from the networks and what's going on f they can't figure out what others are in the network, it's hard for them to make referrals in a way that you would want. it's important for the well functioning of the market for providers to be informed. apart from the most important part of the care, it's important to have the information flow here. just as consumers need to know which hospitals are in the network, the providers need to know. you have to work through the issues. there real issues that i do believe require important attention.

whey meant to imply, before the end of the day, we care about those at least largely. how the patients get treated will depend on if they are being treated fairly. in and of itself, a provider being in versus out of the network is not the ultimate goal. they will take heed. the customer service around those issues and the health care issues. one of the reasons is the employer-based system where everyone knows and i'm not making the choice and it's not even accountability. one of the dimensions within the

exchanges, i believe increasingly in the market through private exchanges, when they are responding to the retail level to sell the product rather than the employer on the wholesale level and customer service and all the issues are going to get much, much better. there is no other system in which the supply chain and the doctors and all of us that are part of the system have as many conflicts with the ultimate payer in the system. they are grown up in a way that is not customer friendly. as we move to a retail-based system, they will be the ones who treat the individual right. >> diane? >> i think if you look at what makes health care potentially work better, it's the ability for all the components to be

informed and understand what's happening. if you say who are the important parts and in that system, that transparency and the provider has to be well informed and have to understand not just networks, but they are now increasing and the average patient is going to -- we owe it as an industry to make sure the provider systems are as well informed as they can be because they are the agents of care. >> just a quick comment from the provider perspective. if you're a primary care provider, for us, challenges as we develop these acl systems, how do we inform the quality

care provider about quality and cost across the spectrum. if you're my patient and i'm referring you, where's the best place the refer you, what systems practice issues of resources and things like that and at the plan level, that's difficult to measure. how do you define parameters around. what's a good referral network in your area. does it give you access to all the types of care that the patient would need. so that's a really complicated issue and then how do you share that information with primary care. how does it get distributed, consumed. in most case, we found that pcps are interested in their own performance, so how do we share information about the data we collect through the plan back with the provider so they can make improvements in the issue. it's a really complicated issue for us. >> yes, jay. it's coming imminently. >> this is a question for the

professor. when you say we should be fair to the providers, we should shield them from economic distress and that's what you mean, why is that a good idea? >> i do not mean we should shield them from economics. i do think there limits as to the amount of fiscal pressure we want in general because they need to be solvent, but as a general rule we do not need to protect them from fiscal distress. much is about how we instill competition which in general is probably broadly speaking a good idea. you should be transparent in your dealings with them. you should not say you are in the network and it turns out you were in the network under those conditions or hold them to standards that they simply can't meet in a variety of ways.

i believe in the market place being fair to providers will also be a winning strategy because at the end of the day, i believe the provider system and the hospitals and physicians are the place in which consumers experience the health care system. they need to function in a reasonable way. i think pressure is something that these networks will generate and create a distress on providers. i am not opposed to that, but stories you hear about people believing they were in contracts and then not. people being told one thing and then not. broad ynl contract law feelings with folks. i think those things are important. that's what i meant about being fair to providers. they need to know and those conditions should be upheld.

i am flexible about what the criteria should be. but once they are set, they know what the contract is. that's what i meant by being fair. what i said before, the goal is not to be fair to providers. what i meant is providers shouldn't have some notion that this is what the price for my services are and you just have to pay it. i do believe there will be competition and lead to lower prices and that's probably a good thing? >> we have been talking about their providers and what they are in and not in. who is in. what about the consumers. a recent report from the recent

mckinley report based on an april consumer survey indicated that 26% of respondents indicated that they had enrolled in an aca plan and unaware of the network type they selected. there were questions about do consumers know what they are signing up for when they are signing up for it and two, once they are in, are they getting the right information and updated information about who is in and who they should see? transparency and this is a broad question. can we talk about the consumer end? >> it is a broad question. michael put his finger on it earlier when he was talking

about the decision at the point where you assume they will stay healthy and tend to buy down on the product. that's what they do generally and have a different attitude if they do get sick. the people who are most cynical about whether there is going to be a change in networks or respond the same way to this over the next couple of years as they did in the 90s say that all we have seen is what people do in purchasing. i demand x and we will have the same thing as earlier. again, it's hard to educate people at the front end. two things.

one is transparency. you have to have as much as possible. you need these smokers in my view to make it work. you have to understand the detail. they help people sort things out and put it in certain terms. they'll have electronic medical records and they can run that through the system and see how their situation will play out. we're just in a world where we're going to have data brokered type people helping consumers. people will choose these things on the front end. we don't know what happens when the rubber really meets the road. >> want to jump in. as i mentioned earlier, we haven't in wisconsin yet, seen an uptick in complaints about yeah, i bought this thing, i thought i had the right thing

and i had to go to the place and get the thing done and they didn't have the thing. we're not hearing that yet. this is all new to many folks. this is the first time a mandate to purchase health insurance. i think there is probably a certain percentage and i don't know if it's a quarter like a result and the data indicates. they bought something and went through an agent or a navigator and somewhere and researched that health insurance and hoping that they got what they needed. they knew they had to have something. there might be some of that there. to joel's point, as this, and you had all the problems last year and the open enrollment

that seemed to last forever. hopefully this year, thing rs a little bit more squared away and after a year of consumers pumpsing health insurance through an exchange, maybe they start getting -- asking questions. maybe they start hearing it. they need to understand what benefits are available through that policy and how is it going to be? i'm optimistic that consumers will be more informed as they play a greater role in the decisions and move forward. >> i agree completely with that and even in that optimistic view, there will be a subset of people that are not going to be able to make good choices. that has been true in every walk

of life and every dimension. it's true in my family. i think part of the challenge for ted in the regulations is to try to figure out how we witness whey think is an obvious good which is having consumers to be engaged and make choices with protection against the at the times of protections. how do we manage a system in which we try to minimize the chance that someone ends up in a really bad situation. i think the other fall back processes to make sure that the one of the case is not unacceptable. some of the exceptions ted mentioned, but it is going to be impossible. the average consumer, how would we feel if 10% of the consumers were making bad choices. 25. it's not going to be that most people are able to make the

right choice. we have to try and minimize the downside. how to get them an opportunity to learn and change over time. and do that in a way that doesn't prevent all these other reforms that we care about to manage the system in terms of quality and affordability. and i think consumers will f to learn to take more responsibility and even though that's easy to say when i'm sitting here in front of you all, i realize many of them will not. >> you a fan of -- theory and that sort of thing? >> absolutely. the question is, there's an enormous amount of work on how to help people make better choices. some of that involves more intervention in the market and framing. than sort of a standard free market economist might advocate. i'm an economist, i believe in markets in a whole variety of ways, but particularly in health

care, i think there's a lot of limitations to choice and i think there's a lot that can be learned in the new way in which we structure choice. we see this in 401(k). there's a lot of places where we can help people make choices that are better for themselves, while still giving them the opportunity to do something different, but i think there's a lot of evidence that markets don't work as well as say econ 101 model would predict. they are much more sophisticated, but to go into this with an understanding of econ 101, i think will give us an outcome that will have more people in situations. >> i don't want to change this into a broad discussion, but i want to remind you and folks that then you have more of a catastrophic plan. that idea put consumers in

charge and made better choices and caused them to be more curious about where the money was going. it was ultimately the first dollar out of their pocket. let's not forget that that is out there as well. i agree that there is a percentage that is just not going have that available to them. that's as much transparency and communication to help people make the decisions. there is certainly a certain percentage of the population that you know, it's just not going to have that information available to them. and it's up to us as religigula to kind of step in when those problems occur or promote as much transparency and

communication as we can to help people make better decisions. >> so, ted, not just in your state, but how much are insurance commissioners already stepping in? so far, we have anecdotal information, but can you give us a sense of how many of your colleagues are being active here? >> that's classified. we only talk about that in closed sessions. no, the and i'm sure joel remembers this from his time in pennsylvania. commissioners and regulators in general really do care about their markets. and when they see, when they see disturbances or disruptions or things they have the authority tho step in and do something about, they will. and -- in this very issue of

networks and network adequacy, particularly and it's not solely, but particularly in some of the more rural states and oklahoma, all of the rectangular states to the west of wisconsine west of wisconsin. there are serious, serious differences between you and anything. and it's very specifically in those kinds of situations, you've got to be within 60 miles. you can drive 60 miles to get bread. so commissioners will step in and have conversations with insurer s saying, look, this is unreasonable. let's work through these things, whether it's that situation or it's an urban situation, where they may not be an central community provider, very often the commissioners will be

talking directly with or through their lieutenants to carriers and providers to work these things out and to get those market structures taken care. i would say this issue in particular is generally very high up on many commissioner's lists, but day to day over the years, it's something that they deal with regularly. >> you want to look at some states where you're seeing more aggressive action on behalf of the commissioners, kind of look at the few west coast states, washington, commissioner struck out three, four medicaid programs from the exchange because they were too narrow in their network, from the exchange and other people in that state, eventually those clients got in. then the commissioner had to go and figure out new regulation this is year, and those regulations were rejected by

everybody. some of the consumers don't think there's enough major sight. in oregon, as robert mentioned, medicare advantage. they're talking about taking the medicare advantage standards in that state, and there's an open end from the insurers. very active insurance from david squloenz. all of whom have some stake in this, so those are three places if you wanted to look at where, you know, some of the -- and those are all people that are active in ted's committee, i think, and, you know, that's the other side to the, you know, the prairie states, where some of these same kind of concepts are not very well received. >> and states are doing a lot more, many states are doing a lot more besides just this thing, so there's a lot going on across the board in the states

and i think one of the european is to make sure that the strategy we're talking about today fits into the broader strategy of the state and of course that varies across the states. >> so let's go ahead and wrap up. i'm going to give each of you, you know, 30 seconds to tell us, you've got a bunch of reporters here in the room. what is the one thing, the biggest thing you think they ought to be looking for, it can be what you very much hope is going to happen, or you're worried about happening. but what is the one thing you think everybody in this room should keep their eye on moving forward? >> i think we should really be clear to differentiate value versus the other terminology, because narrow does not equate with value. >> can you hold the mike up? >> i'm sorry. i think we have to differentiate value and we should noll stand in the way or create unnecessary

bur burdens from a regulatory point of view that gets in the way of progress and innovation. >> remember the tradeoff, don't get stuck on one aspect of the story, but not the others, it's very easy to do. and understand that anecdote won't prove the rule there's going to be bad things are going to happen no matter what, and just because there's bad things doesn't mean the whole system needs a complete redesign. >> i'll second what you said. again, this is usually an important issue, it's accelerating at a rate that we didn't anticipate. and thus, the working group that we work on on this very issue is taking comments and considerations and letters from

all parties, to better address and better move forward with a better model for states to adopt and to implement. >> the issues are complex, there are tradeoffs and so it's an area where i hope we let the states be laboratories of democracy and experiment and one of the issues that i encourage the media to go into is to look at the different states and what they're doing and i would just be wary of a premature kind of federal intervention here that would limit the kind of experimentation that i think we need to have on these issues. >> from my perspective, i think that finding ways to report quality and cost across the spectrum are going to be key, and that means consumers and physicians. so that both sides have access to the information they need. >> okay, great. this concludes our session, i thank all of our panelists for being here and thanks to all of the reporters for joining us today.

this weekend on the cspan network, 2014 debate coverage continues live tonight on cspan. the former u.s. house member democrat mike ros debating former dea administrator and former u.s. congressman asa hutchinson. and wendy davis and republican greg abbott. live coverage of the iowa governor debate. and sunday evening, jenny beth martin, president and co-founder of tea party patriots is on q & a at 8:00. and on cspan 2, on book tv at 10:00, director of astro biology talks about life on earth achkd how it began. and martin storm on his

experiences with life in al qaeda. we'll mark the 50th anniversary of the warren commission, who failed to investigation -- council and staff members to the warren commission describe their investigation and sunday afternoon at 4:00 on real america, the 19 1964 report on the warren commission's report. find our television schedule at cspan.org and let us know what you think about the programs you're watching. call us at 202-626-3400. e-mail us at comments at cspan.org or you can send us a tweet at cspan/comments. like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. the cspan cities tour takes book tv and american history dv the on the road taking to the road to learn about cities and

their history. st. paul in the 1930s. i wouldn't call it las vegas, but it was a very lively city, because the gangsters brought their gun mold. during prohibition, you had the biggest jazz artists of the decade here in st. paul. so it was a very, very lively place partially because the gangsters were welcomed here. virtually every gangster, kidnapper and robber in america lived and worked within a three block radius of where we're standing today. people don't know that, there's no statutes of these gangsters, but this was the epicenter of 1930s crime in the era of john dillinger. the fbi, the federal bureau of investigation with j. edgar

hoover had this building as their headquarters. this was also the building where all those bank robbers were tried angtd sent to alcatraz and other prisons across america. it's where it began and where it ended. we're standing here at historic port snelling and we're looking over the junction of the minnesota and the mississippi rivers. st. paul is located up the mississippi river from ft. snelling. the fortunately was here before the city was, but the fort is intimately connected in the creation of st. paul. in the 1830s, there were groups of settlers that were living on the military's property. finally the army had had enough of competing with them for resources answer they felt they should be removed officially from the military property. the settlers then moved across the river to the other side and they formed what became the nucleus of the city of st. paul. when you think about the story and the history of this region, that you think beyond the walls of ft. snelling.

and that's what we try to do here at ft. snelling is push people to think more about what does it mean when all these cultures came together? what perspectives did they have on these historic events? >> watch all of our events on st. paul on american history tv on cspan 3. here's a look at what's ahead on cspan 3. up next conversations with the heads of three big ten universities. the university of wisconsin, university of illinois at urbana champagne and indiana university. that's followed by a hearing on ant anti-bottledic resistance. traveling to u.s. cities to learn about their history and literary lives. this weekend we partnered with comcast for a visit to st. paul, minnesota. st. paul in the 1930s, i

wouldn't call it las vegas, but it was a very lively city, because the gangsterings brought their gun holds, during prohibition, you had the biggest jazz artists of the decade here in st. paul. it was a very, very lively place partially because the gangsters were welcomed hear. virtually every major gangster, kidnapper and bank robber in america lived and worked within a three block area of where we're standing today, john dillinger, baby face nelson, alvin creepy carpet. all were here. people don't know that, there's no statues of these gangsters, but this was the epicenter of 1930s crime in the era of john dillinger. the fbi, the federal bureau of investigation with j. edgar hoover had this building as their headquarters. this is also the building where all of those bootleggers and

bank robbers were tried and sent to alcatraz and other prisons across america. it's where it began and where it ended. we're standing here at historic ft. snelling and we're looking over the junction of the minnesota and the mississippi rivers. st. paul is located up the mississippi river from ft. snelling. and the ft. was here before the city was. but the fort is intimately connected in the creation of st. paul. in the 1830s, there were groups of settlers that were living on the military's property. finally the army had had enough of competing with them for resources, and they felt that they should be removed officially from the military property. the setlers then moved across the river to the other side and they formed what became the nucleus of the city of st. paul. when you think about the story and the history of this region that you think beyond the walls of ft. snelling. and that's what we try to do here at ft. snelling is really push people to think more about what does it mean when all these cultures came together?

what perspectives did they have on these historic ehaven'ts? >> watch all of our events from st. paul at noon eastern on american history tv on cspan 3. this fall cspan's buss are touring big ten schools and speaking with university presidents about public policy issues impacting higher education, such as college costs and student debt, university admission policies, click lunchtime and academic standards and how universities are preparing graduates for careers and adult life. up next, university of wisconsin president ray cross. >> and this morning's cspan bus is on the campus of the university of wisconsin in madison and joining us on the bus is ray cross, who's the president of the university of wisconsin system. thank you for being here. let's begin with this distinction of being the

president of the university of wisconsin's system. what does that mean? >> within the university of wisconsin system, greta, there's 13 four-year institutions and 13 two-year feeder institutions extension is in all 72 counties, in addition to that, there are 180,000 students throughout the system. 40,000 employees. it's roughly the sixth largest system in the united states, with about a $6 billion budget. it's pretty sizable higher education, public higher education operation. >> what does it mean that you are the president of the system as opposed to a president of just let's say the university of wisconsin, madison, of one site? >> part of the theory behind a

system is that they're meant to coordinate and to develop state wide issues, issues that impact the whole state. and serve the institutions in a way that -- in terms of shared resources in helping them more effectively and cost effectively deal with some of the issues that are common to all of them. we represent each of these institutions in the capital, it's a collaborative effort on issues related to state legislation or federal legislation. >> and you reference the $6 billon an ynual kbugt for the university of wisconsin systems, state funding makes up gifts grants and contracts at about 5 billion dlrds. the impacts, $15 billion plus annually. what does that mean, this economic impact? >> most economic analysis, that

impact in terms of what it duds to the economy throughout the state, it has an impact of what we purchase and how other higher and how that money play into the economy. to that's more or less a direct and indirect impact of those expenses on the economy in the region. >> and we want to hear from wisconsin residents this morning. we have a fourth line set aside for them. we have divided lines by students, parents, educators and wisconsin residents. want to hear from you about the university of wisconsin and impact on your state. we're talking with ray cross, who's the president of the

university of wisconsin system. how big is the university of wisconsin madison? >> madison has about 43,000 to 4 44,000 students. it's probably in the middle of the big ten, sixth or seventh, in that category of big ten. it's the third largest recipient of u.s. dollars, it's a major institution, it's been ranked in the top five ever since i can remember. it puts a tremendous emphasis on research, and all the work that's being done in stem cell research. and changing those into different heart cells and even

retina cells. research in the biosciences, it's a phenomenal institution when it comes to research and energy and areas like that, it's been very active in the weather station. i think we have 18 nobel prize winners, engineering and chemistry and medicine and physics, it's a major research institution. #. >> and the university of wisconsin madison, its tuition fees for undergraduate degrees, for in state, you're looking at a little over $10,000. out of state the price tag is $26,660. the room and board costs come in at about $8,600. who decides how much tuition costs? >> i'm sorry, i didn't hear all of that, greta. >> who decides the price tag for

in state and out of state? >> the board of rejegents has authority to establish tuition, however that's generally negotiated with the legislature and a lot of that depends on the state ate coming from the state legislature. as the university puts forward it's budgets and developing it's budget, it does so in collaboration with the board, the board of regents and that process of determining tuition is a balance of what the state will do in revenue or state aid and what we need in terms of tuition. >> what is the regents board, who sits on it? >> there are 18 members on the board. they're appointed, well, some of them, most of them are appointed by the governor and affirmed by the senate. but several of those members are also occupying positions as a result of their positions, so

there are two student appointees from the governor's office, but the superintendent for the department of public instruction sits on that. one is a representative from the technical college, the board silts on the board. so there are some positions like that that are also part of the 18-member board of regents. >> have they voted to increase tuition every year? >> oh, no, currently there is a tuition freeze. we're in the second year of that tuition freeze and we are proposing that in the next two years that we also freeze tuition, we think we can do it for two more years. that does put some strain on us, there's no question about that, but we believe affordability is really, really an important issue, given student debt and those kinds of issues. we have been working with legislators and in particular the governor's office to try to balance that off so the state picks up a little bit larger

portion of our budget, that's a challenge, given the state's revenue situation, and the demands on the state's budget, as you probably know, medicaid and other nondiscretionary portions of the budget are growing rapidly, i think medicaid will go from about 17% or 18% of the state's budget to over 30% in the next decade. that leaves legislators with less discretionary portion which the higher end comes from. >> governor walker wants a tuition freeze, hiss opponent mary burke the democrat concurs. how many students are eligible for financial aid at the university of wisconsin? >> i think at the madison campus, it's about 61% or 62% currently get financial aid. obviously i believe we could do

more in that area. we're trying. the madison initiative for undergraduates alone has dramatically helped? in a few moments i'm going to go over and meet with the fund for wisconsin scholars, another tremendous financial aid effort. the wisconsin system has increased it's financial aid to help offset some of the costs for students. about 73%, as i recall, greta, of the students throughout the system receive financial aid. >> as you said, 61% of under grad students are receiving some sko sort of financial aid. there has been a tuition freeze at the university of wisconsin systems and you want to continue that, president cross. i'm wondering because affordability as you said is a big issue, do you think college is worth it? >> of course. i think every study that's been

done shows that students in terms of economic analysis, college graduates earn more, considerably more than their noncollege counter parts. in addition to that, the unemployment rate for college graduates is roughly half of what it is for noncollege graduates. there is a definitely distinguishing characteristic economically. but i don't think it should be measured only on an economic scale. the value of the university education goes beyond that, and it's important to understand what it means to have an educated citizenry. that's the fundamental, i think the fundamental piece of what a higher education experience is all about. economic impact on the family and the state is important. i think it's also important in the state of wisconsin where we

are about 150,000 to 17 170,000 vacant job positions right now, it's important for the university to address the high impact talent, probably 30%, 40%, or 50% of those positions require a badegree. >> let's get to phone calls. pam is up first in middleton, wisconsin. go ahead. >> caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. good morning, president cross. i'm calling in reference to your statement that our college is a -- i was surprised to learn that my alma mater is conducting highly controversial experiments on baby monkeys. i have also recently learned

that a petition by change.org started last week and over 200,000 people have signed that so it appears i'm not alone. so i'm calling to see how you reconcile this in the testing that so many researchers are calling unnecessary, cruel and outdated with our image and reputation as a progressive school? >> thank you, pam, the process that one goes through on university campus to secure approval to do research of that type is very extensive. as i recall, there are four different levels and the faculty that review that come from all different disciplines and it's a very rigorous process. and the need for this has to be warranted through that process. that's handled here at the

madison campus by some very conscientious and diligent people. that process has been under way and this research has been through that process so i think we have to let that process guide us. secondly, i am aware of these concerns and i have received those and we're taking those very seriously, and we're sharing this with the board, we're re-evaluating this so we are concernied about this. >> and president cross, is there federal oversight on how research is conducted at universities like the university of wisconsin, madison, does the federal government have something to say about that? >> any research involving federal funds, there are rigorous processes at the federal government requires and there is a serious oversight process and of course that's a part of this too, greta. >> and how does that process

work? >> well, it depends on the type of research that's being undertaken. most of that, there are pieces of that depending on whether you're doing lab work or if animals are involved or if there's human research involved, and there are protocols that are required by the federal government, they audit that on a regular basis and they establish the processes that help guide that. >> we'll go to bill next in amberton, minnesota, a parent there. hi, bill. >> caller: i just had a fairly simple question, my son's going to a state college here in minnesota and we had heard of collaborations like it was between north dakota and south dakota, and minnesota about a collaboration of in state fees that would be considered for

colleges in different states that collaborate financially that way, is that true or how does that work? >> yes, that is true, wisconsin also has a reciprocity agreement with minnesota. so if your son or daughter from minnesota would go to wisconsin, at in state fees and in state tuition, and vice versa, wisconsin students can attend minnesota institutions. >> by the way, cspan's big ten bus tour started out at the university of minnesota last week, if you missed that, go to cspan -- we're doing a month long series of viz sits to

various big ten institutions, the university of wisconsin system's president ray cross is with us aboard cspan's bus. greg is in madison. >> thank you for taking my call, mr. cross. i was listening when you were talking about the state providing tuition for -- as a graduate of uw, i did hear of those studies that already started, i don't recall if they had already started. i think i heart the previous

kaulzer talking about that. my bigger concern or one of my biggest concerns was that the system has not passed full committee and it only went to a subcommittee without full approval. is that your recollection of what transpired? >> it's my understanding that it did go through the entire process, that the point at least. i'm not sure that it has started, but i'm sure it's gone through -- i think it has gone through the entire process. >> president ray cross, let me throw in another issue for you and that is rural colleges, wisconsin being a rural state, you have a background in running rural colleges. what are the challenges of reaching students in these rural areas of wisconsin? >> there are a number of challenges facing those students and i was just reading about, i

think, florence county in wisconsin, which has a high school of 25 students. the size of and the scale of those institutions limits their ability to do a lot of things, i'm sure they wouldlike to be able to do. ironically, a number of the problems facing rural wisconsin schools are also facing urban institutions. and they obviously are approaching them differently, they are on both ends of the spectrum, but the challenges facing them are similar, how we deal with that and what we do to help serve those folks is, i think, very important. we're attempting to do more course options, that is students taking high school credit courses, concurrently with college courses to help them get started. the university needs to improve its ability to speak to the

remedial needs of both rural and urban students. we need, we badly need to make sure that students get into the educational pipeline, they that succeed and retain in that educational pipeline and that we connect them to businesses and opportunities both for their career and for their life here in wisconsin. and that's a challenge bothsett urban setting. >> with the cost of tuition at the university of wisconsin madison being 10,000, room and board, you add on another $8,600 what about online education. >> wisconsin i think offers something like 5,400 courses online. and we have been pioneers in the whole area of competency based educati

education, which is an innova innovative new approach into what you know and what you can do, rather than how much time is spent in the classroom. that kind of activity, i believe has a great future. now it faces a number of challenges, because in wisconsin, and i'm sure elsewhere, in wisconsin, there are somewhere between $750,000 to a million working age adults with some college, but without a degree. that number nationally is around 31 million. now if we can deal with effectively, i think we need to educate more working adults, not just 18-year-olds, but so they can compete in a future economy that requires this kind of education. >> do you see the future of

education be it online or other technology reducing the price tag of tuition as well as room and board? >> i'm not sure. there are some examples where it has. i think it has tremendous potential. it also creates several concerns. ideally, it would be a blend, a hybrid if you will between online models. but it takes the right type of student to engage in this online process and leverage it to its maximum ability. some students are just suited for that type of learning. remember, we're focusing this type of education on adult learn learner who cannot simply put their children in daycare and return to a dorm and live on

campus. we're trying to serve them e6 effectively. it is a different experience, it is not the same as you gain in a residence experience is very important. but we want to be able to serve them with the kind of experience they need at that point in their lives and i think that will ultimately have a huge impact on both them and the people throughout the state. >> gene on twitter asks this, of those enrolled, what percentage go on to graduate? >> i'm trying to remember that number i would say that we probably retain 60% and graduate in time is another things, i think in madison, in six years, the percentage is in the 70%.

we're working very hard to increase that, i believe the madison campus alone has about a 4 1/2 year time frame for most graduates. that time to degree not only saves a student and their family money, it also gets them into the workplace quicker and it's something that we want to do not only to make it affordable, but also to help our economy grow in the state of wisconsin. >> president cross, what percentage of stuchbdents are taking more than four years to graduate? >> more than four years, throughout the system, that's probably going to be around 40%, in that range. i don't remember the number, greta. we are above -- we're better than the national average, we're considerably better than the national average throughout the

system. however we don't think that's good enough, we want to do better, i think it's interesting that in my era, most students graduate within four or five years at least. however today many students are dual majoring, they're doing a study abroad, it's a high impact learning practice, they're doing internships that delay that graduation. the education they're getting is much more enhanced and complete than it was 40 years ago. >> we're going to chesapeake, virginia, arthur is waiting there. go ahead, arthur. >> caller: i want to ask the professor about the stem cell research, are you all doing anything for stem cells, as far as -- >> arthur, you got to turn that television down when you're talking with the guest, president cross he's talking

about stem cell research at the university of wisconsin madison. >> i'm not familiar with everything we're doing, but i am family with something they're doing with what i would call nondifferentiated stem cells. they're trying to take skin cells and convert them into stem cells which then can be converted into specific cells, heart, i know of one project where they're actually working on creating retina cells from those stem cells. so those are some of the broader research projects that i'm aware of involving stem cells. >> susie's next, in springfield, missouri, an educator there. hi, susie. >> caller: i have two questions. sometimes research universities have issues related to those advanced senior faculty having contact with undergraduates. i'm wondering how many adjunct

or course professors teach undergraduates and the second question is i'm also understand ing that the number of majors in that institution impacts the cost. how many majors in each discipline and how many popular majors have you had to eliminate. thanks. >> i think if i understand the question correctly, there's two parts, and that is how many senior faculty teach freshman courses. i think we're very similar to most institutions, that process is focused on making sure students do well. balancing that with their ability to interact with quality

professors. since about, i don't know in the last five or six years, those majors related to the stem field science technology engineering and math, including in some areas as art, the demand for those disciplines has gone up around 15%. unfortunately, the number of faculty serving those fields has remained about the same. so one of our challenges is to increase the number of faculty in those critically important field that the state badly needs, better serve those students and serve employers in some sense than an indirect sense in the economy of the state. that's a challenge for us. it really is, i think it's a challenge for most big ten, for most universities. so we're working very hard to do that. it's part of our budget initiative.

>> joe wants to know are corporations letting schools know what they need so the universities can produce them and why not if they're not? >> i didn't understand the question, greta. could you say it again please? >> are corporations letting schools like yours know what they want, what they need from workers? >> yes, it's also important, particularly in wisconsin that we reach out to them. i think too often we're too passive in that regard in not seeking their input on what they happen to need. in wisconsin, we having a greg gat data and we look at that in a macrosense, but there are regional differences throughout the seven regions in the state, in terms of what employers need. while it's important to do that, i fully agree with them, we're working on as one of my

initiatives to more tightly connect the university to what corporations in the state need. it's also important to recognize, that we're not here just to serve those needs, we have a broader pump in educating the complete adult. that's part of our challenge. >> charlotte is watching us in chicago as a parent there, go ahead, charlotte. >> caller: as a parent, i can say it's been an unbelievable burden to manage my son's debt. we were caught up in the perfect storm because i started a real estate investment company two or three years before the real estate market crashed. so we lost all of our money because of that. and my son was in college at the time, and so we had some initially to start to pay for his college, but we weren't able

to, so he had to start taking out loans and we had to co-sign for the loans for some reason he wasn't able to get loans in his name. so we have really been paying for college, in a sense since he started ed ied i ed ied in 200. it's just been unbelievable. we reached out to senator derbin and he and senator warren are very focused on the suffering, i call it suffering, because that's what it feels like, that families are going through trying to pay off these bills. and one of the issues i have is the interest that's being charged on the college debt, it's about 8% and my husband, what signed for about $58,000 in loans for my son, by the time he was out of college, that -- because the interest starts accruing by the way on parent plus loans as soon as the parent signs for those. i guess we were so overwhelmed business the real estate market

situation we weren't even focusinging on that. so by the time my son got out of college, some of the loans and there were more than this, we were at about $66,000. >> charlotte, where did your son go to school? >> caller: his first semester was at perdue. and thank goodness, after one semester there, he was almost afraid to tell me that he wasn't happy there, and i couldn't tell him how happy i was to hear that because of the cost of it. so that was about $20,000 that first smeemester. then he went to two and a half years of community college and finished at depaul university. >> what are the issues there, president cross? >> yes, greta, and charlotte, i understand and sympathize with that challenge you're facing.

my sympathy and my heart goes out to you because of the market crash. there are probably two or three things that are circulating that are important to touch on, about the situation that you're in. one is the refinancing capability. and you mentioned the size of the interest rates and how that is calculated ach ed and i thin are a number of folks working on that issue, so what you're pointing out is a challenge and it's something that several legislature fors at the freshman level are looking into. secondly, i think it's also important that when the clock start s impacts not only that interest rate but also your payments. given your situation, it would have been helpful had there been some accommodation with respect to your employment. and the earnings that you were making. and then thirdly, i think it's also important to note that the

financial aid process, which is based entirely on what you earned in the last year, not entirely, but heavily on that, when it changes quickly, that should be calculated differently. i understand that's challenge and there are several folks working on it. so i appreciate the challenges you're facing and also want you to know that several folks are working on that. >> we'll go to sue next in illinois, a parent there. >> caller: hi, how are you doing? >> fine. >> caller: i guess my question, one of them would be are you going to attempt to do affirmative action like the university of michigan, i do believe you're going to hurt your own kind in the long run because of the asians and people from india are going to skyrocket in those grades.

and what is your stand on that. >> the university of wisconsin -- engage in different ways of thinking, doing things. so it's not just diversity in terms of what one traditionally thinks of, it also is much broader than that. one of the mottos here at the university of wisconsin, which is, it's actually on plaques around the campus, the sifting and win knowing to use an agriculture term, i think that occurs most effectively when you're civilly engaged in discussions and interactions with people who are different,

who think differently, who explore things together in a way that -- to pursue the truth. that process is constantly being reviewed and how we do that, obviously academic prowess is the greatest importance for those students who are seeking admission to madison and several other of our campuses. but we look at broader things as well. we also want to know how, what's their potential for leadership, how engaged are they in the of the community? what's their commitment to serving others? those issues impacted a in additions heavily and so then we do also look at diversity in terms of the broad category that i would call inclue sixth. . >> the conversation now with the vice chancellor for public affairs at the university of

illinois at urbana, champagne, this is 40 minutes. >> last we're here on the american journal, we kicked off a month long series with university presidents as part of cspan's dews tour. aboard the cspan bus this morning is university provost. let me begin with what you see as the top changeses for higher education. >> well, good morning. it's nice -- welcome to everybody to our campus. to talk challengine ings for education, from where we sit in the middle of the prairie for the united states is access and accessibility for young people to improve themselves in the world.

access and affordability. because the cost of higher education has gone up over the last many years and now we have to figure out as a country, and as individual institutions how to make this affordable and accessible to young people, because education is transformational. >> so how are you doing that then? how are you addressing this challenge of affordability and access? the university of illinois at urbana, champagne, tuition for instate is over 15,000, out of state is over 30,000, and room and board can come in at nearly $11,000. >> yes, indeed. we are over the last many years, we are increased our effort in

terms of financial aid. we have given over $70 million in financial aid. we have been going out to our friends and alumni trying to raise tuition. because the tough region, probably four or five regions, that students act s s accept ou incision vittation to -- so we realize this completely. the major problem is the decrease in state funding over the last many years for institutions like ours, so it behooves us, the leaders of institutionslike ours is to really go out and to make the case to the country, to the state that education is top priority, education higher education. for is country, especially higher education is critical to

making a country abundant in terms of human productivity, social environment of the country. so a major issue for us is making sure we have financial aid for students so we can bring everybody under the spectrum to the university of illinois. >> the annual budget for the university of illinois, $2 billion. endowments you get about $2.8 billion and alumni bringing in $108,000. >> i think the -- most of that loan with the lower interest rates.

that is very important for students to get more interest on the loan so when they get out of here and have a lot of debt on their head, we're very proud on our campus that a ledefault rate, and also the loan on our students when they get out is lower than the national medium. there is a role to really make every impact on students, their families, and the future of the country as a whole to be able to produce and give lower interest rates for students to partake of higher education. which is a bedrock of a democratic society. >> you have 19 to 1 student to faculty ratio, 150 under grad

majors. 84% of students there are taking six year toss graduate. and in 2013, your research expenditures are over $143 million. what is your job basement record for those students who are graduating from the university of illinois? >> very, very high. very, very high. over last year, we had over 8,500 companies visiting our campus, trying to recruit talent from our campus. and probably more than 100 of fortune 500 companies come to our campus. i don't know the specific number rikts now, but we're very sure that the talent that's reported from the university of illinois are desirable at a very high rate and we put -- we bring our

best to the table what i call the workhorse and the racehorse of talent for this country. my understanding is that cspan is going through the big ten. we have a counter part, which is an official aspect of the big ten. i think we walk together very closely, collaborate in terms of academic programs achkd administrative programs. and we look at toetzal submission of the big ten. we produce the largest number of talents for this country. so this is, i mean what's being dproently is exposing the power of the big ten as far as economic development in our society. >> and our goal here as part of this month-long series of interviews with with university presidents is to talk about the issues of higher education. and this morning our guest is

the provost at the university of illinois. we want to invite our viewers to join in on this conversation. we divided the lines by students, parents, educators and illinois residents. want to get to your concerns, your questions, your comments on higher education here. how do you address the curriculum at the university of illinois to make sure that it is aligned with job skills and what companies need in the workforce?

>> the fundamental role of a public university is making sure that we train students for critical thinking and to partake of the society's -- i think just being a job shop is not something that we like to do. we want to be able to produce the fundamental theory and practice of each individual jur major so that students can go out and be productive in society. because we know that students will go through many stages of their lifetime, how do you prepare them at a funding major league level for that, we have a great engineering school, we have a great business school. we have our own unique attrib e attributes of educating our students, but have the humanities, social sciences contribute to the aspects of training of students at a fundamental level, that's what

university of illinois has been and great institutions like this are doing to make sure that opportunities are not only prepared for one job but are able to translate from job to job over their lifetimes. that's our philosophy and i'm sure it's the philosophy of other trade schools, specific schools that prepare students specifically for some type of jobs. but ours ask to make sure that we prepare the whole individual to become leaders in the society in whatever they choose to do. >> tony's up first, a student in rosewood, california. >> caller: hi. i returned to school after not being in for quite some time and i go to a very nice university. and i agree with him that it's very expensive and he's saying that he's looking forward to the federal government doing more. but there's also a limit on a lifetime limit on how much the

government would help you because there's a new law in place that you can only get pell grants for so many years, so that's not helping people that went to school earlier, maybe like in the '90s or something and are returning to school now because now i'm on the limb on how much the federal government is going to help me. so i would like for you to address that. thanks. >> well, thank you very much for your call. i think as i mentioned previously, the main, the chancellor, myself, we have a foundation and we're working very, very stutd youly to make sure we raise funds for people like you, we raise funds for scholarships, for grants, so people can come here to the prairie and actually get a very great education. our fundamental issue is being able to raise those moneys and provide grants and scholarships to everybody that is interested

in coming to the university of illinois. so as i mentioned previously, the funding over the last 20 ye a little bit challenging for all of us, to tell the truth. but over a long time, you'll find that great institutions have great foundations and are able to raise money to really help, to help and assist students because that is the fundamental thing that university and the fundamental aspirations of this institution itself. >> and on this issue of affordability, the daily illinois the daily newspaper had this headline, less illinois students are attending the university due to cost. dee in chicago, an illinois resident. dee, you're on the air. dee, listen through your phone, please. turn your tv down.

go ahead, dee. >> caller: good morning. this is my first time -- >> thank you very much. >> it's been a pleasure. i'm so proud of you. and god bless you. >> thank you. thank you very much. thank you very much. >> caller: we have a lot of students don't have parents or parents do not have good credit line and they're declined for student loans. they have to drop out of college. what provisions do urban that champagne have for those kind of students in place? >> well, in times of -- we do not like students dropping out of our institution, but the main thing is if we are able to connect the students, get to the students beforehand, we're able to look at all the portfolio of

funding that are available to the student. so, if you know any student that is in that particular situation, send them to my office, send them to the advisers because one thing that happens is that students are not aware of the resources on campus that can help them. so that's assistance we have to give to our students. we have financial littersy, how do you get four-year training or six-year training to the individual to be able to go to the university of illinois without owing too much because we are very, very aware of heavy burden of loan on students when they go out is not something that we want to encourage at all, but we have 76% rate four-year graduation rate and 84% rate at six years. we're very proud of that. and my goal, as the provost, is

actually to get that to 90% so that we can, we can really graduate students at a very high rate and really workhorse of this country which is a very great country. >> go ahead there, a parent there in new jersey. >> caller: yeah. i think that education loan is up because these people in america are making profit from it. when i went to college, i went to community college and i went to state college. my credit was $45, but now my children and my grandchildren, they are now paying over 200 credit in new jersey. i think -- what i am advising all americans who can vote to go out and vote for the party that will be receptive to the problem

of this society. the people we have now, they are not receptive to the poor people. they are receptive to the wealthy people. that would be my advice. >> okay. let's take that point. is the university of illinois more -- listening more and more intently to wealthy donors to wealthy people than it is to the minority and poor people who want to attend the school? >> not at all, not at all. we listen to everybody. this is a public land grant university. we're created as such and we believe in that mission passionately because i'm a product of public education. i'm originally from nigeria as you might have inferred from my name, but i'm a product of what

you may call -- what land grant universities can do to an individual. so, we listen to everybody and try to reach people who want to donate here, we have to make sure that their volumes and priorities are aligned with the campuses. that's critical for us. because it is not just the money but the principles and the value, the core values that we hold deep as a public land grant institution that wants to have a global impact at a state level, local level, state level and globally. that's ambition. that's our vision and that's what we're set to do. >> let's go to john, bloomfield hills, a parent there. go ahead, john. >> caller: yes. good morning. i am a first-time caller. i've listened usually in the mornings. i have two children in college. i think it's important to understand that there's a disconnect from what i believe universities are generally offering in terms of overall education that the guest was

talking about and the requirement to get a job that pays. my one daughter at michigan state university chose construction management over veterinary science because she knew she could get a well-paying job and she just did get one. another son going to ohio northern university is choosing construction management just because he knew that my daughter got a job doing that. it's so important for people to understand that you just can't go to get a soft degree today. you have to have employability. >> well, we don't have soft degrees at university of illinois. we bring students here what i call raw, young minds and turn them into refined young minds when they leave here. some people are very focussed on

the type of job they're going to get when they leave this place, but there are some students who are still trying to explore. their own human being, aspects of themselves and take some time before they actually arrive at where they feel comfortable in life. so, we provide a spectrum of education as the chief academy officer of this campus, i believe in that. we give people what we call general education and if you're in engineering, you go out and specialize in your engineering degree, business. so we provide a spectrum of majors, activities, resources for students, study abroad, so we make the whole person, not just the first job, but the whole person for life. that is the function of public land grant universities, in my belief. >> we're talking with the provost at the university of

illinois at urbana champagne. we kicked it off last week at the university of minnesota and went through week. and this week as well. yesterday we talked to the president of the university of wisconsin of the wisconsin systems there and today we're at the university of illinois and this tour will continue for a month long as we continue talking about higher education issues and that is our topic for all of you out there. what are your questions, your comments, your conditions with higher education? you can keep dialing in now. we have about 20 minutes left here. we'll go to pat next in carbondale, illinois. go ahead, pat. >> caller: yes, hi. i'm calling in several regards. one is in particular the parent-plus loans and how that affects parents and -- i have five children who i got through school. two, one is in college now and one is about to go to college. parent-plus loan is set for parents to pay back. i think that's a tragedy in

terms of how that is set up. also for children applying to school, if you're middle income, they assume you have money to pay for college and you don't get all the benefits of financial aid in terms of -- you get loans but that's all your children can get. i'm on my last child, hopefully he'll get a full ride somewhere and we are considering your school, but we want to know what is actually out there for middle income people who they say have all this money, we're paying house note, car notes and all that, what do we have that helps us to get our students through school? >> well, we're working very, very hard really. i mean, i'm sure it's not only our institution that is doing this. we're working hard for the lower income and the middle income families to be able to afford college. apart from the federal loan, state loan and the money that we

try to supplement without grants and scholarship from the campus, we don't have enough. we don't really have enough. we've been going to what i usually call our grate and grateful alumni to be build up our portfolio to help people like your family to come to the university of illinois. this is something that we are doing. we are making sure that the increase in tuition is held at the inflation rate making sure that people can really afford school. it's a pity. i went to school and a four-year college after that. and i i know at that time, the institution rate was very, very low. but with the current state of the economy, the current state of the economy and decrease to a large extent in the state funding has been very, very