american history tv on c-span 3. >> history bookshelf features popular american history writers every weekend at this time. in september 1849, harriet tubman escaped from slavery in maryland and fled to philadelphia. over the next decade, she became o saint /* st. pa >> in harriet tubman the road to freedom they write about her escape and details her time as scout, spy and nurse for the union army. they discuss it from march 2004. >> thank you. good evening. y'all.,

it's early! all right, that's a little better. i was running a little late. but did i come prepareed? i would not let you down. school as prestigious as this has a conversation about soon is an important as harriet tubman i wouldn't miss this opportunity and and that's what i hope tonight is is a conversation about harriet tubman and the fact that she's been a footnote in african-american history and american history books and finally we have a serious historical study thanks to miss clinton about harriet tubman. author's here and there's plenty to buy and you can participate in the conversation by picking up the book eufrplt would like to discuss the historical context in which this book talks about harriet tubman because too often we don't

really discuss american slavery in school or in the public schools or the catholic schools or any big schools in the big city. let's talk real numbers because the holocaust took place in this country. that's a record that's been reserved for a tick event in world history. i want to talk about is racial slavery in the americas. 20 million, 30 million, possibly as many as 50 million people of snatched from their homeland in africa in the 15th, 16, 17th and 18th centuries. less than half of all the people snatched from these countries, snatched from these lands survived and lived on intoed adulthood. slavery didn't just pop up overnight and jump out of some greek god's head as in

mythology. slavery did not exist in 17th century england from which most came from. it evolved over time, step by step, law by law, turning indentured servitude into slavery for the darker people. people who looked strange compared to the majority. there were black men before the mayflow mayflower. most people don't accept it and most don't have concept of how this country came to be. black men who owned land grew the cash crop of the day, tobacco and held paper on indentured servants who were white. the idyllic vision where all men were equal and rise to the individual level of their accomplishment as the colonies were first envisioned, even this

was obtainable for time. but the need for cheap labor and the darwinian racial attitudes of that moment, people who believe who was not christian were believed to be the lesser human beings. these notions eroded the vision of equality and slavery and statement as an economic system began to replace the model with racial slavery as the end result. slavery is not really studied in american schools today, not here and not at the schools a few blocks from here like ben flank lynn high school. the chains, whippings and rapes are softened in most of the text books. the passion in which we see today in the movie today from "the passion of christ" this surprise is us we don't teach

the passion in this country and since "roots" was on network national television. history is not part of the popular culture. the civil war documentary by ken burns cuts the nerve in this country and people watched it for hours and hours and bought the vhs version and how they can buy the dvd version. what has followed since then? what has pbs, nbc, abc shown us in american history since the time of the civil war broadcast. "roots" is now "gone with the wind." no matter how many times you watch the classic novel you'll learn about slavery in the gone with the wind. it's as close to the truth as on going saga of ben affleck is about trueopez

love. if most of our history comes that's where they get their history and not from the classrooms in this building or the schools or your instructors. urge your students to watch am stad to get a taste, just a taste of what slavery was really taste of what racial servitude in the 17th and 18th century was actually like. believe that many of you in this room really don't engrained eeply layers it took to bring racial slavery into existence and to understand how degradeded the darker peoples were thought of by whites. great he emancipated in the middle of his first term during the early days of the civil war when the north was losing every battle from fred rick'sberg, he felt no kwapl

about expressing his own belief, the great emancipator declared in these sent thements, i have no purpose an as to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. there the physical difference between the two probably forever forbid their living together on the footing of perfect equality. he is not my equal in many respects. certainly not in color, perhaps not in intellectual or moral endowment. he is the equal of me only in right to eat the bred which is own hands earned. lincoln whose hatred of slavery in 1858 had not progressed to the point where he could accept or

overcome his ambivalence about the equality of the races. it is against this context that we should approach this new book on harriet tubman. racial slavery and human bondage in this country lasted at least 250 years. previous forms of slavery in the with have been connected the rules of war. but in our case it was based on race, supported by religion and tied to the economics of an era plantation cast system which consisted of the most degrading and brutal and disgusting treatment of one set of human beings by another. violence was the overarching reality for all slaves. whippings, lynchings. destruction of the black family was a consequence of slave auctions and breeding. illiteracy was used as a means of control. if you don't read, you were

unable to do what? tell directions. you couldn't find north or south let alone east or west or set plans to communicate with slaves. thus whites were punished to teach blacks read and write. it gives a broader understanding conditions that harriet tubman escaped and why she led freedom.undred to but i ask to you listen to the words of these slaves because tore are no better witnesses the cruelty of this peculiar institution which trampled, brutal lied and killed. when people ask why we do what we do and volunteer our time and

energy to the plight of our people is to try to repay the debt we owe these ancestors. their burden was harsh. ours is to make sure that the world never forgets it and to ensure that our children never have to fear it, never, never again. for a second at some of the stories that we hear to get the slavery context of what harriet tub man was leading people from. this comes before the mayflower. slaves were given a new conception of themselves according to the different likes of their captors. this process whether it took place in liberal brazil or harsh south carolina was a painful mind reversing operation in

which two out of three out of every ten died and every slave went through this breaking in period. during this period which varied from 1-3 years the slave was taught opinioningian english or french or spanish. got a new name. the mass or hymn that replaced african religions or rituals. tens of thousands died of old or new diseases. but to millions of others testifying to the physical and spiritual strength, they survive and surviving they ensured the survival and prosperity of america which fashioned out of their mystery.

a book written about 25 years ago talks about slave life also. the slaves prove themselves good. they frequent references in the accounts of former slaves to the ethicasy of the punished must be read in this light but so must the frequent condemnations of cruelty and oppression. the slaves not so much punishment for disobeying the rules when they thought were i wonder if it be a sin to think every slave a curse to any land. men and woman are punished when mistresses arend brutes and not when they not do

wrong. the whip testified to their own improvement and restoration. branding, air cropping, assorted mutilatio mutilations. the burning alive of alleged rapists and murders also declined although this never really disappeared. and quote, unquote boxes continued in effect on some plantations. still, however, great atros if is during the late ante bell hrupl period. finally i'll read to you from the passage of the life and time of the great abolitionist who

himself was a slave. their lives were similar. they were born a few years apart died just a few years a part also. he writes in his earlier version: one of the first circumstances that opened my eyes to the cruelty and wickedness of slavery and hardening influence upon my old master was his refusal to interpose his thought to protect and shield a young woman, a mine who had mostly cruelty abused and beaten by his overseer in maryland. he was like most of his class, little less than a human brut ahe was a miserable drunk are aed. one of his moments of drunken madness he committed the outrage which brought the young woman down to my old masters for protection. the poor girl on her arrival presented the most pitiful

appearance and left with haste without the knowledge of mr. plumber. she travelled 12 miles, barefooted. her neck and shoulders covered with scars. they dealt her a blow on the head which cut her a horrible gash and left her face literally covered with blood. woman you're about to hear about is harriet tubman. but that's not her actual name. she died in 1913, a little more than a decade after her more fighter a woman would go on to accomplish so her exploits would inspire legends is the real story and is why this book is so useful now during the time when young women, especially young

black woman have only music video images. it's my pleasure to bring you author of harriet tubman, road to freedom. >> thank you. you take me back to my undergraduate days at harvard university when these books were first published, so i'm hearing these authors again and indeed it was the very cruelty and immediacy of slavery that made me pursue my work and thank you for calling me a new author but for a while.round for those of you who are interested this is my first book but of course my favorite book because it's so near and dear and i've been working on it for the past few years. i want to thank all of you for turning out tonight. tubman always encouraged

her followers, if you're tired keep going. keep going.ared if you're hungry, keep going. but if you want to taste freedom keep going. so i'm thanking you to stop for a while before we go out in the night and get back to our lives. pleased she's such a household name and so familiar children.ntury school but i hope it doesn't surprise you that her first biography was published in 1869. followed in 1943. and when i was teaching at harvard in 1991 in the afro american studies i was asked to write an article. there were dozens of children's books in print but no scholar work had been done on her in years. now i had my own young children then and i contented myself

wonderful children books for children and most noticeable ann petetry and dorothy sterling. but 19 sixties this was such an interest we needed into great into history. orn into slavery, she lived well into the 20th. herself by ted running aaway from her maryland donor in 1849. committed to the battle against slavery, she took on the dangerous role of rescuing others and she conducted hundreds of fugitives to freedom along networks established by the underground rail road. during the 18 fifties she became

a lover with abolitionists. her infamy grew among slave holders who railed against her bold abductions snatching shrufz south of the mason dixon line and smuggling them to freedom. although we want to expand her beyond this remarkable chapter of her life deserves its due. herself efacing recollections held audiences's attention. she told the story of a dark night when three companions moved along a deserted turnpike. the two male slaves had never been on this road before, the pathway to freedom. they feared patrols could come along and sweep them back into slavery's nets. they thought they might suddenly appear.

more than the autumn cheer in the air caused them to sheufl shiver hoping to reach their next stop before dawn. their guide was able to tell which direction they must take. despite the dangers and risk, they were glad for their good fortune. during this moon lit trek, she decided to cross an open field. after a long spell it ran out and tubman and her companions faced an unfamiliar river. she walked along the banks to see if there was a bridge or boat to get them across. after a fruitless search fearing overtake them she insisted they might have to cross on foot. the two men refused. rather than draw her pistol or waste her breath, she waded

across alone. soaked and weary they had to ford another wide stream before they came to an isolated cabin. a black family lived within and severe penalties imposed on any who insisted fugitives and those offering a hiding place needed reassurance. suspects were thrown in jail with the flimsyiest of evidence. was a reverend of expected of harboring fugitives. they searched his house and found nothing except for a copy of "uncle tom's cabin" which made him fined, thrown in jail and served the sentence of ten years. so certainly this was a very dangerous proposition. the three soaked-weary pilgrims, dried out in the black family's

household, slept all day and rested up for what lay ahead. once restored they thanked their host and resumed their journey under the cover of night. accounts were rich with exotic detail and kept her listeners wrapped. once she passed through a town near her home she walked the streets incognito equipped with a large sun bonnet and purchased two chickens and tied strings to their feet so when she did recognize one of her masters she pulled on the strings and the chickens began to flap and skwa squawk. harriet was always prepared with a change of costume or some other diversion. on another occasion, traveling in a rail way coach, she saw one of her former masters and she picked up a newspaper and began to read it instead of panicking. she fooled this man who would

not see this black woman reading his former slave as his former slave known to him was illiterate. he didn't take notice and she made it safely. >> she rarely ventured on plantations during her abductions within the south. instead she spread the word along the slave grape vine informing members about the time and place for a rendezvous. she might provide false information at first to flush out betrayals. but once she found local prospects to her satisfaction, she made an appeal for embarking on the path to freedom. she crafted her expeditions with extreme care. moses used gospel music to signal to fugitives hidden along the road. she directed them by her songs as to whether she might show themselves or lie low. no one would notice what was

sung by an old color woman. saturday evening was the regular gathering time for recruits. slaves would go visits on saturday night and spend sunday with their family. any slave who took off with tubman on a saturday night would not be discovered missing until monday morning. absence was confirmed, his or her master to monday sted printed on and couldn't get a notice in the paper until tuesday which gave harriet and her fugitives a lead of a day. on a mission behind enemy lines state, tubman demanded discipline. she was not afraid to exert her authority. she carried a pistol and prepared to use it it which earned her a reputation for toughness. there were occasions when circumstances dictated that she use force as well as persuasion. she recalled a particularly difficult or deal when she had to shepherd a party of 25

fugitives who were losing heart during a gruelling trek. at one point they had to hide in a swamp all day long and well into the night deprived of food, cold and damp. one man said he was going to take his chances back on the plantation, but he warned him he couldn't leave. it would compromise the entire operation and others tried to coax him. but he wanted to head back and tubman stepped up to him and aimed a revolver at his head or die.move he went on with the rest and a he was in canada a free man. harriet tubman symbolizes the most powerful and purest elements of the movement. righteous self determination and defeat of unjust laws through collective resistance. those who fought the power only with their words or at a comfortable distance remained unexposed to the dangers tubman faced repeatedly on her road to

freedom. during her underground railroad career she risked her own life and freedom again and again making daring rescues to and all this was under taken while she suffered a severe disability when she and her friends referred to called time. she could have suffered from narcolepsy or epilepsy. whatever her disease she faced it without courage or complaint. she became a friend and admirer of john brown. after their first brief meeting they formed an abiding mutual bond. they shared an intense passion and hatred of slavery. brown always called tubman general which signalled his high esteem for her accomplishments and recognition she took a military role, that she was a warrior. tubman unlike frederick douglas willing to join john brown.

brown's repeated postponement of poor communication channels prevented tubman from joining him on the attack on harper's ferry. but in the wake of brown's death hair rot tubman participated in the first public rescue. on april 27, 1860, a fugitive was being held by authorities in troy, new york. in october 18, '58, he had fled virginia to try to find his wife and three children who were epans emancipated and living in pennsylvania. his luck ran out when a virginia bounty hunter came to town to reclaim him. the slave catcher was none other than his own brother, a free black who had been paid to do slave master's dirty work.

harriet tubman was in troy to visit a relative. she carried a food basket and climbed the steps to the second floor hearing room. her props held her to appear an elderly woman which eased her way into this guarded legal chamber. she was standing at the back when it was announced that he would be shipped back to virginia. harriet tubman knew she should seize the moment. she tested the good people of troy. she worried about getting him to the river safely. in the bling of an eye, grabbed and wrenched him free and and took him downstairs and beaten over the head with policeman's clubs but never for a moment released her hold. bleeding and half conscience he was hauled down the river. authorities had been telegraphed and they were waiting on the opposite bank. he was taken into custody and

taken to a judge's chambers. but his boat was followed by a ferry full of abolitionist led by harriet tubman. when she landed she stormed the building where he was held and a humor battering ram reeked havoc. when the led the assault on the door of the office were stricken down, harriet and a number of other colored women rushed over the bodies and brought him out and put him on a wagon starting him to the west. they described, rescuesers ers were were lawyers, editors and private individuals. african furry is entitled to claim the greatest share of the rescue. tubman used this leading role in the liberation of slaves, but his rescue was the first public battle that she led and she

learned the nickname of moses but clearly she was a joshua as well. she knew what most would discover, what john brown had demonstrated a few months before, slavery was war. after the civil war was did he moving an underground movement above ground she joined with federal forces first in virginia and then south carolina. she continued her struggle to destroy slavery. these agentivi activities were given a widow's pension in 1893 and 1899 the pension increased and nearly tripled in recognition of her war time service.

she spent her post war years in the finger lakes region of where she york devoted herself to justice and betphef lance. after sheltering the needy in her own household she was able to open a charitable home for blacks. she was outspoken on behalf of women suffrage and other when she died in 1913 booker t. washington and other race leaders hailed her for her exemplary sacrifice and contributions. writing a biography has been a joy and challenge, joyful in that her life is so inspirational and challenging because her status as a folk heroin in many ways object little we can document about this remarkable woman. just how little data is

recoverable about her life. although she's lotted as a heroin of the underground railroad there is little mentioned of her extraordinary contributions during the conflict, especially working behind enemy lines in confederate south carolina. because she remained illiterate there are a few dictated letters and no diaries. there are obituaries which appeared widely, yet like many born her birthday remains unknown. scholars naturally seek the exact year of her birth which would be especially useful to those excavating her birth place. when i started my own research in 1990s i searched for traces

of tubman and her family in newspapers and archives and all the usual places. as our introducer pointed out, she was a footnote and an anoma anomaly. she would pop up and fade. he insisted that i meet the edicated people who were engaged locally in the preservation of tubman's historical legacy, sterling advice for which i'm grateful. i've encountered so much generous and dedicated researchers for example the men and woman of the educational center which supervised pilgrimages and tours and harriet tubman celebration. go on down to the eastern shore march tenth on harriet tubman day. my guide were so passionate

about where she might have been and where she might have lived and where she started her road to freedom. now just last year a run away advertisement for tubman, an item which eluded activists turned up in the hands of a preservationist. he hoped to create a flourishing site in a village store. the store was the place where the young female slave harriet once ran to to warn a foal oh field worker about an overseers pursuit. she came between the overseer and the slave he was trying to throttle and she fell to an iron weight. and it's one of the few documented sites from harriet's years in maryland.

the haeirs of a local family wee filling up a dumpster. he inquired three with permission donned some overalls and dug in. one person's trash is another person's treasure when the couple unearthed a paper containing a run away advertisement for tubman. the first published piece of evidence documenting her flight. harriet's fame before and during the civil war coincided with the popular of the pictures. this is a lucky stroke for the underground railroad leader as images were instrumental to the protection of her identity.

it could be a costly mistake if she were to reveal her agenda to a traveller. her collection helped her to present such mishaps. when she made contact with persons she had never met before she showed them pictures of her colleagues on the underground railroad. if she could identify them by name she knew she would be talking to a fellow traveller. we have many wonderful portraits of tubman. she donated her home to the zion church which maintains this facility as museum and educational center and expanding its mandates. they attempt to turn tubman into

some kind of symbol for battles over gun control. this is not really a surprise to me because following the release of the national history standards in 1994 tubman's name was frequently invoked of flaws associated with guidelines. opponents of the standards hammered away at revisionism she hot button for conservatives and a whipping girl for political correctness. she continues to blossom within the popular culture. along my travels i have bought tubman mugs, stamps and pens and i fine her cyberspace. there are school websites i encourage you to go online and type in harriet tubman and see the wonderful artwork. a favorite image hangs in my study and lila's handmade

portrait shows it. harriet tubman's legacy is not for children only. in canada where she settled in 18 fifties at york university they established the center on the african diaspora. the the u.s. park service is undertaking an important study which will release findings and evaluation in 2005 on how we harriet tubman. now as you can tell, i can keep on going for hours on her first husband, on the mystery of her adopted daughter and second

husband who is at least 20 years younger, on her spiritual her fame as a healer, buy i hope you'll appreciate i would like to hear from you because i know everyone has a harriet story to share. so i thank you and welcome your questions and comments before we all keep going. [applause] >> thank you. i find when i go around and give these talks everyone has a favorite harriet story they'd like to tell or share, so i welcome your comments or your questions or your queries. but please come up to the microphone if you wouldn't mind and just maybe speak your name hi.an i say

just lean into it and it will talk back. firstf of all i want to welcome you here and thank michael and jerry because heard about it through my aunt -- when i go to various organizations over the city -- >> and your name is? >> fred. i'm a businessman in the community. i always see the same people basically in the same circle. rap musicyou know the and stuff like that have taken over most of the youth of today. now what can you do to get more -- your book into more young people's hands. you know what i would like to see, more of this type of situation on the fm side of the radio. the am side we have the same old same olds and we see each other all the time.

meanwhile the fm side has taken over the youth of today. see. >> the history -- >> > >> i tell you, harriet rocks thing.one i think young girls look to her nd i think they -- i think you go out in schools of america and the one thing that's been done is her heroism has not been diminished. an individual who was not given a voice and robbed of personhood by the laws of her country and stood up to the slave power and and i will be and i have faith in myself and i'll achieve and that lesson has really with stood the test of time. since 1990 there were 20 books published in the children's 2,000 there nce have been 17. so there are 37 books written on her.

now we're having a renaissance and it's time for the parents to learn about harriet tubman to learn she was a warrior and fought for women's rights. i want the whole story of harriet tubman and not the material issistic vision of her a broader book. you mention the subject of getting it out into the schools schools.peak in i don't speak on harriet tubman because i'm trying to her off the children's shelf, but on harriet i came across a woman called susie kim taylor who was in the area when harriet tubman was there and she wrote a memoir of her time with the south carolina volunteers and i'm pleased to say that i'm going to write an introduction and you go also if to my website www.katherine

clinton.com you'll see that i have a secret life. i also write children's books. when i was teaching at harvard in african-american studies i was hunger for history and hunger for stories. out e needed to get people of the star wars and back into i of the e exciting stars historical past. i do you will i -- i'm writing a children's book on susie taylor as well. we need role models and we don't need them simply within the black community. america.hem within i believe all americans need to join in celebration of someone like harriet tubman. my -- i was talking about the youth and the age of 13-21. you're saying children that 8 and 7.9, i'm talking about those -- between the age of 13 and 21. need the history.

they're the ones going out in the future. >> yes and i also with say to you, some of my colleagues in the academy might question my decision to write for children. i'm writing for ten and above so i'm just really trying to get at that. if we're going to teach at the university and expect for students to come in being in love with history, i think we have to give them a history in the schools. teachers are working against the culture as you point out a pop culture which doesn't love the history. i welcome it. i will say talking about films, that i think it's important to have the voices of the past. you read some testimony here. i would like to say that i've been very moved by unchained memories which is an hbo library of congress documentary which is the actual voices from the wpa narratives and a wonderful

teaching tool you and hear their voices. ruby deand samuel jackson and oprah winfrey, it's wonderful. i think there is a revival. maybe it's not on the networks and maybe it's on cable but i think we're all going different directions. please come up to the mic. >> my name is john vincent and thank om new jersey and you very much for writing this book. overdue and i'm sure we're all very grateful for that. my question though is because we are currently sitting in philadelphia, i wonder if you could say how it was how it was garret and william still in order to become that nexus. >> the comment was made earlier they didn't want to teach slaves

to read so they wouldn't know which directions to go. thing, ge is a dangerous but harriet said like her friend, she may not be able to but she knew how to read people. she said she came to a certain she couldn't have liberty, give me death and it it wasn't exactly patrick henry she was quoting, than the bible. she wanted that liberty. she knew it must be somewhere. imagine what it might be like for her coming to philadelphia. here's the city with the african the ng house and african-american libraries and abolitionist societies and incredible free black societies, a vigilance committee. william still you mentioned. he had to keep a secret record of those fugitive slaves that came through philadelphia.

thomas garret in wilmington delaware who was someone who kept records. when the united states passed the blood mound law it endangered every fugitive living in the north. those people who helped transport people to the north had kept records and they use the -- they wrote down slave names. harriet's was ross. she took the name harriet when she came to freedom. she was married to john tubman a free black. when she came into freedom she took the name harriet. this name was one in which was kept secret. still had to hide his records in the cemetery. he didn't publish the record of the fugitives until the 18 seventies. it was a wonderful document and still remains in print and is one of our remaining wonderful

books on the underground railroad. in 2004 later this year, the underground railroad center is going to be opening in cincinnati, ohio. outreaching through the internet. you can go online and see it. it's outreaching to places which -- where we can recover and rebuild this history. the underground railroad was one of the largest most extensive most significant movements in american history. why don't we know about it? it was clandestine. the testimony, the oral testimony kept at the time is something we can recover. in philadelphia it's right at the crossroads. it was the place where people came seeking freedom. it was the place where slave hunters to capture free blacks

and drag them back to slavery. it was a crossroads and i think it has a proud history and harriet embraceed that and when she came here and found her first taste of freedom here on the streets of philadelphia. sir. >> i have a few things i want to rundown. to what you nd choose to, but i know it's a matter of time. first i wanted to acknowledge thank you for representing. >> your name. >> my name is david. >> okay. >> couple of things. i'm go from the bottom of my and again you can deal and respond to whichever one you're moved to. i have mixed feelings about you up there as a representing someone called harriet tubman. only from a point of view my elder's history is being represented by people who by way of their privilege find themselves in a position to do

should have t we been able to do. leave that at that. i have mixed emotions of whether on your tulate you success and privilege, but, hey, getting out there. prices is your book going toward charity or something toward harriet tubman. she has or to what had to scrap to get as a veteran, i got into a conversation right after the guy s got hit with white who tried to put myself in my place and i had to straight him straight that my great grandfather and several of phaou my uncles were all veterans and before, during and after every country has gone through when we have shown them saving these and

guys behinds we find that this country has given us their ass to kiss. >> can i respond to that? because i think it's important in this time that we recognize african-americans have served in the armed forces the e united states during american revolution. the call to freedom, african-americans responded to it, a quarter of the continental navy was african-american. as you point out, after the american revolution, many slave holders tried to recapture their property. men would say, why can't i serve in my state militia or the massachusetts militia? because they were -- their complexion was their crime.

this is something they wrote about very powerfully and i just have to say as a historian of the american past i write on many topics. i write on slavery and i write on women's history and african-americans. i'm very moved by these stories and i believe they should get out there. so for example, i've written a children's book called the black soldier which deals with this problem all the way through and tubman as a woman warrior was denied her pension for her work. she had to receive it as the widow of a veteran. these battles are still on going. but i think we need to recognize them. i agree with you that representation is an issue but i believe each of us has our story to tell. each should get the word out. one of my problems was i was teaching students and trying to how compelling i found her story and i thought perhaps if more people knew about her there would be movement. so tomorrow, for example, harriet tubman day in cambridge,

maryland. i'll speak in new york city. i'm not getting a fee for this speaking, i'm trying to spread the word about harriet. i really do believe that we need to do each what we can do within our own community. she went to auburn, new york. she reached out to the needy people in her community. but she also went to those who were of privilege and demanded they support the charitable work of supporting those women who were disabled and people of color and denied access to social services throughout the state of new york. so i think there is an important message to get out and if children and adults get that message maybe we can work together today to try to do something about the injustices which harriet tubman would want us to address. that's where the mixed emotion comes in. i'm glad you're here. i don't knock for someone having and, hey, at ife

the same time your success, white community's success has come at a cost to other people and that's what i have a problem with that. but i'm glad you're out there. what's your view on reparations? >> well, i'm going to say that i year the at every united states government has sent a petition by a member of the black caucus asking for a commission to be established to look into that and every year it's turned down. i believe that conversations are what we really need to engage in and, for example, when i was reaching at the city university of new york, i held a conference on slavery's legacy and we tried to talk in conversation about these very issues and we're always there talking about slaves in the family. one of the decedents who has

been proven by d.n.a. to be a decedent of thomas jefferson was there and the issue came up and this omed discussion on and i welcome my colleagues having open and spirited debate. had enough talk about it. it's like -- it's down to a choice.eds to make are you for us or against us in terms of is this something that deal with or is this something that america determines must never happen. guess maybe i also feel very strongly that right now within the world we have slavery. we are dealing with a system right now that some people have suggested that as many people in slavery right now around the as were transported across the atlantic during the transatlantic slave trade this. is a very important problem and being addressed by the u.n. and should be by the u.s. government and very significant, a brand

new book has come out called slaves" and her store wrist compelling and i would like to us trying to imagine that harriet tubman in the 21st century telling us that we need to fight it as well as deal with the issue of slave reparations. >> one more thing i want to put you.ont of this thing of name only because mention that harriet tubman's name was not harriet tubman. i found that i will know that america is on its way to a different place when i can -- oh first i of all i have a problem i can go to a caucasian to get permission to stop using a caucasian surname. out of respect it's almost like it's better to just say, she

doesn't have a name. great one or something. >> she had many names but i her parents called her very much and called her are a meant at an and that was her birth name and then she married john tubman and took his name and then she took her mother's name harriet and may have been the name of one of her disappeared sisters. the slave trade, the eastern part of maryland provided crash crop and that was slave children which were bought and sold away to the south n respect i believe she took the name harriet and it and talked t about taking the name harriet. i guess as i as a scholar to take the names as she testified to them. >> i wasn't clear.

it's not the first name that's the issue it's the sur name and there's so much energy that goes into making it difficult to get rid of that. but thank you very much. >> okay, david. >> my name is michael. you and he introduce talked about the horrors of slavery. i'm wondering in your research have you come acrossed a particular incident that springs to your mind in terms of what harriet tubman wept through in exemplifying the horrors of slavery. >> there are several stories from childhood that do spring to mind. she said she grew up like a neglected weed just given food and water and not given the nourishment she needed. not by her parents who loved her and told her bible stories and gave her the presence. was put out to hire slave

masters and came and collected her when she was five years old. one of the first instances she was left in a household where she was taking care of a baby and all day long she would do domestic labor for this mistress and at night she was expected to rock the cradle so the baby wouldn't cry. when the baby did cry, the mother instead of reaching for child reached for a whip and used this whip on the 5 or 6-year-old harriet tubman to infraction of the her sleep being vy lated by her own story crying. and i think she tells this story with a great deal of .80-sevensy. you. ank >> i think we have time for one more question. thank you. i'll try to make it quick. i'm from indianapolis, indiana. ironically i happen to be in

town and i had your book and you appeared. usually of things, it's how i find out about authors and yours is through c-span. >> do you have a weekend addiction to their non fiction. >> yes. i agree with my >> at also like to say thank you. i am appreciative of you writing a book about a famous black american and also delk is the sprinkling -- douglas brinkley who wrote "rosa parks," which i recommend because it's an outstanding read. >> i would like to add that rosa parks was born within a few weeks of harriet hedman's death -- harriet tubman's death. >> i always call myself a black

american. i don't want my black american forefathers to be tarnished as not being part of building this country, even if it was on the backs of slavery, which was unfortunate, but i don't want to forget them by disowning, that's why i count myself as a black american. a couple of points i wanted to say -- there were several freedom fighters who lost their lives during the civil rights movement, and i'm talking from the 1700s all the way through today, that lost their lives in the struggle along with black people, so we must not forget that, especially black americans. we need to recognize that we would not have been able to do it by ourselves. if you think that's true, then i rise you please read "rosa parks" by douglas brinkley -- i advise you. my question this evening is going to be brief and very simple. what is your next project? are you planning on writing about another african american or black famous american?

>> when i was down in south carolina, i taught for a year at the citadel, a little institution in charleston, which has recently accepted women into the ranks of cadets. while i was down there, i was working on tubman, on fort wagner, and my next children's book is called "hold the flag high," the story of the first african-american medal of honor winner. i am very pleased that book will be coming out in 2005. i am also working on susie king taylor, who was a laundress and educator. with the first south carolina volunteers and i'm she wrote her memoir of her service with the south carolina volunteers. i'm going to be doing a children's book on susie king taylor. my next big biography that i'm planning to launch into is a study of mary todd lincoln but mary todd lincoln is someone

who figures prominently in american history and we just began to reexamine women's roles and indeed her closest friendship during her white house years was with elizabeth keckley, an african-american seam stress, someone who supported her and i think we need to get a new view of this fasfating -- fascinating first lady. >> thank you. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> on "history bookshelf," here from the best known history writers of the past decade. to watch these programs any time, visit our website, /history.n.org you are watching american history tv, all weekend every weekend on c-span3. >> with live coverage of the u.s. house on c-span and the senate on c-span2, here on

c-span3, we complement that coverage by showing you the most relevant hearings and public fit affairs events. americans home to history tv with programs that tell our story on weekends. including american artifacts, touring museums and historic sites to discover what artifacts reveal about america's past, history bookshelf with the best-known american history writers, the presidency, looking at the policies and legacies of our nation's commanders in chief. lectures in history with top project as college professors delving into america's past, and our new series the touring archival government and educational films from the 1930's through 1970's. c-span3 -- created by the cable tv industry and funded by your local cable or satellite provider. >> tonight at 6:00 p.m. eastern

ephene civil war, author st davis discusses the fall of atlanta, highlighting the role of the four commanders who had the greatest impact on the atlanta campaign. atlanta fell to union forces on september 2, 1864, bringing general sherman's or-month-long campaign to a close. war,s on the civil american history tv's weekly programs. secretary of state john kerry and former secretaries of state kissinger, baker, powell, albright, and clinton deliver for the groundbreaking ceremony of the u.s. diplomacy center. the museum is dedicated to demonstrating the importance of diplomacy throughout american history. this is about 50 mes