pleasure to welcome jerry mondesar. >> good evening. wake up, y'all, it's early. all right. that's a little better. probably was worried because i was running late, but did i

come prepared? all right. i would not let you down. friends select has a conversation about someone as important in black history and american history as harriet tubman, i wouldn't miss this opportunity to join the conversation and that's what i hope tonight is. a conversation about harriet tubman and the fact that for so long she has been a footnote in american history books and finally we have a serious study, thanks to mrs. clinton about harriet tubman. i'm not going to discuss the book because the author is here and there are plenty of books for you to buy and that's why we're here for you to participate in the conversation by picking up one of these books. what i would like for you to -- like to do is discuss the historical context in which this book talks about harriet tubman. too often we don't discuss american slavery in friends select school or in the public schools or the catholic schools or any of the schools in our

big cities. first and foremost, let's talk real numbers, because the holocaust took place in this country. that's a word that has been reserved for a particular event in world history, but there have been many holocausts. and the holocaust i want to talk about is racial slavery in the americas. 20 million, 30 million, possibly even as many as 50 million people of color were snatched from their homeland in africa in the 15th, 16th, 17th and 18th centuries. less than half of all the people snatched from these countries -- snatched from these lands survived and lived on into dault hood. slavery didn't -- into adulthood. slavery didn't just pop up overnight, jumped out of some greek god's head as in mythology. slavery, in the american colonies, did not exist in 17th century england from which most of the colonists came from.

rather, slavery evolved over time, step by step, law by law, turning indentured servitude into slavery for the darker people, people who looked strange compared to the majority of the european colonists. there were free black men in colonial virginia before the mayflower. most of you don't accept it or didn't know it and most of the students in the school had no concept of how this country came to be. black men who owned land, grew the cash crop of the day, tobacco, and some of these black men even held paper on indentured servants who were white. for a time, the idyllic vision of an egalitarian village where all men were equal and could rise to the individual level of their accomplishment as the colonies were first envisioned, even the idea that this vision was attainable for a time but the need for cheap labor and the darwinian racial attitudes

of that moment, people who believed that anybody who was not christian, who was not christian was believed to be a lesser human being, these notions, these notions combined with the attitudes and the cultural change within the colonies eroded the vision of equality and slavery at the same time as an economic system began to replace the agrarian village model with racial slavery as the end result. slavery is not ready studied in american schools today, not here at friends select, not at schools a few blocks from here like ben franklin high school. the chains, the whipings, the rapes, are deleted or even softened in most of our textbooks. the passion we see in the movie today by the movie by mel gibson "the passion of the christ" is surprising because we don't teach the passion of really what happened in this country let alone look at the violence that is such a part of the american national heritage. it's been almost 30 years since "roots" was on network national broadcast television.

history is not today part of our national popular culture. the civil war documentary by burns, ken burns, touched a nerve in this country and people watched it for hours and hours and people bought the v.h.s. version, now they can -- now they can buy the d.v.d. version but what has abc, pbs, nbc, showed us about slavery since the time of "the civil war" broadcast? "roots" is no "gone with the wind" no matter how many times how often you watch margaret mitchell's classic novel in its movie version you will never learn about slavery in "the gone -- "anyone with the combind wind it's as close as slavery as ben affleck and jennifer lopez is about true

love. that's where they get history, not from the schools nearby or from the erudite educators at friends select. turn to "mistad" to get a taste of what slavery was really about, a taste of what racial servitude in the 17th and 18th century was actually alike, therefore, i believe that many of you in this room really don't grasp the deeply engrained layers it took to bring racial slavery into existence and to understand how degraded the darker peoples were by whites. even the great emanc parent in the middle of his -- -- even the great emancipator in the middle of his first term when the north was losing every battle felt no qualm about expressing his own belief that the darker-hued races were less than human. once debated by a debate opponent a few years before he would actually win the white

house, the great emancipator declared in these sentiments to a illinois audience, and i quote, "i have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. there is a physical difference continue the two which in my judgment -- difference between the two which in my judgment probably forever forbids their living together on the footing of perfect equality." he is not my equal in many respects, certainly not in color, perhaps not in intellectual or moral endowment. he is the equal of me only in his right to eat the bread which his own hands earn." so said abraham lincoln. whose hatred of slavery in 1858 had not yet progressed to the point where he could accept or overcome his ambivalence about the equality of the races, it is against this context that we should approach this new book on harriet tubman, perhaps the

greatest conductor of the underground railroad, racial slavery, human bondage in this country, lasted at least 250 years. previous forms of slavery in the world have been connected with the rules of war. but in our case, it was based on race, supported by religion and tied to the chicks of an era built on a plantation caste system that consisted of the most degrading, the most brutal and disgusting treatment of one set of human beings by another. violence, violence, was the overarching reality for all slaves. whipings, lynchings over guns were the enforcers of slavery, destruction of the black slavery -- black family were the consequence, illiteracy were used as a means of control since if you couldn't read you were unable to do what? tell directions. you couldn't find north or south let alone east or west,

you couldn't set plans to communicate with other slaves. thus, whites were punished for teaching blacks to read and to write. several earlier works in black history published many years ago before the volume that we're going to talk about today discuss, and give a broader understanding to, the condition that harriet tubman escaped and why she went on to lead several hundred of her fellow brothers and sisters to freedom, but i ask you to listen to the words of these slaves because there are no better witnesses to the cruelty of this particular institution which trampled, brutalized and killed the genius of my forebears. i see in the room the leader of a group that we know in philadelphia as atalingtsdz. people in this room ask why i or a man like michael court who is an esteemed attorney do what we do, why we volunteer our time and our energies to the plight of our people, it is to try to repay the debt we owe these ancestors.

their burden was harsh. ours is to make sure that our children never have to fear it,ener, never -- never, never again. surface differences apart, slavery was a dirty business in both hispanic and protestant america, and this comes from "before the mayflower" by larome bennett. in both areas slafse were given a new conception of themselves coordinating to the -- according to the lights of their captwhether it took place in liberal brazil or harsh south carolina was a painful, mind-reversing operation in which two or three out of every 10 died. in one form or another, every slave from africa went through this "breaking-in" period.

during this period which varied from one to three years a slave was taught pidgin english or french or spanish, he got a new name and began to look at himself and others in a different manners, yawrkts eh took the place of the name of his god, -- yaweh took the place of the name of his god. the strain was too much for 10's of thousands who died of old and new diseases and the shock of psychic mutilation but to millions of others testifying to the physical and spiritual strength that transcended the historic, the heroic, they survived, and surviving, they ensured the survival and prosperity of america which fashioned out of their mystery the take-off capital that made american capitalism possible. "row, jordan, row," a book written about 25 years ago, the world the slaves made by eugene genovese talks about slave life

also. the slaves proved themselves good -- they frequently were references in the accounts of former slaves to the efforts of the punishments must be read in this light but so must the frequent condemnations of cruelty and oppression. the slave objected not so much to punishment for disobeying the rules even when they thought the rules unfair as to the arbitraryness, the caprice, the inhumanity which allowed one man to vents his compassions to another. mary boykin said "i wonder if it be a sin, she wrote, to think every slave a curse to any land. men and women are punished when their masters or mistresses are brutes not when they do wrong." the frequent use of the whip testified to their own improvement and reformation. during the 19th century, branding, ear cropping, assorted mutilations, gradually

disappeared from the punishments which shrank to a minimum in practice. the burning alive of alleged rapists and murderers declined although this and other atrocities never actually disappeared. iron collars and "nigger boxes" with a few air holes continued in effect on some plantations, still, however, great atrocities during the late antebellum period and they did not rival the widespread fiendishes in what we now call haiti on the eve of the revolution. i will read to you a passage from the life and times of frederick douglass who himself was a slave. and escaped from maryland not too far from where harriet tubman was born -- in fact, their lives are similar. they were born just a few years apart and died just a few years

apart also. he writes in the earlier version of his autobiography, "one of the first circumstances that opened my eyes to the cruelties and wickedness of slavery and its hardening influence upon my old master was his refusal to interpose his authority to protect and shield a young woman, a cousin of mine who had been mostly cruelly abused and beaten by his overseer in tuckahoe, maryland, little less than a human brute, in addition to his general repulsive coarseness, he was a miserable drunkard, a man not fit to have the management of a drove of mules. in one of his moments of drunken madness he committed the outrage which brought the young woman in question down to my old master's for protection. the poor girl on her arrival on our house presented the most pitiable appearance, she had left in haste and without preparation and probably without the knowledge of mr. plummer.

she had traveled 12 miles bare-footed, bare-necked and bare-headed, her head covered with scars and not content with marking her neck and shoulders with the cowhyde, there was a blow on the head with the hickory club which left her face covered with blood. the woman's name that you are about to hear about is harriet tubman, but that's not actually her real name, but we'll hear about that from the author, mrs. clinton. born just a few years before fred ring -- frederick douglass she died in 1913, a little more than a decade after her more famous freedom fighter. that a woman would go on to accomplish so much that her exploits would enable legends is the wonderful story of this new author and why this book is so useful now, during a time when young women, especially young black women have only images on music videos and in films to inspire them. it's my pleasure to bring to you, the author of "harriet

tubman," the road to freedom," catherine clinton. >> thank you >> >> thank you. you take me back to my undergraduate days, hearing these authors again and it was the cruelty and immediacy of slavery that made me pursue my work in african-american studies and thank you for calling me a new author but i have been around a while. for those of you who are interested, this isn't my first book but of course it's my favorite book because it's so near and dear and i have been working on it the past few years. i want to thank all of you for turning out tonight. harriet tubman always encouraged her followers, "if you're tired, keep going. if you're scared, keep going. if you're hungry, keep going.

but if you want to taste freedom, keep going." so i'm thanking you for stopping here a while before we all go out into the night and get back to our lives. i'm pleased that harriet tubman is so well known but her first biography was published in 1869, during her own lifetime. however, the second followed in 1943. and when i was teaching at harvard in 1991 in the department of afro-american studies i was asked to write an encyclopedia article on harriet tubman and i went out there and discovered there were dozens of children's books in print but no scholarly works had been done on her in over 50 years. now i had my own young children then and i contended myself with reading them the wonderful children's books by jerry pinkney and others on harriet tubman, most notably juvenile

biographies were pub lired ann petry and sterling but by the 1960's there was such an interest in harriet tubman that i felt we needed to address her as scholars, we needed to to integrate her into american history, born into slavery in the third decade of the 19th century, harriet tubman lived well into the 20th. she emancipated herself by running away from her maryland owner in 1849 and she joined the growing cadre of black freedom fighters in the north. committed to the battle against slavery, she took on the dangerous role of rescuing others, and she conducted hundreds of fugitives to freedom along networks established by the underground railroad. during the 1850's, she became a beloved figure among abolitionists revered as "moses" within antislavery circles. her infamy grew among

slave-holders who railed against her bold abductions, snatching slaves south of the mason-dixon line and smuggling them safely to freedop. although we want to expand beyond her underneath railroad role, this remarkable chapter of her life deserves its due. herself-effacing recollections held audiences rapt when she would tell them about her adventures. she told the story of a dark night when three companions moved soundlessly like a deserted turnpike. the two male fugitive slaves had never been on this road before, the pathway to freedom. blacks abroad without passes feared that mounted patrols could come along at any moment and sweep them back into slavery's. more than the autumn chill in the air caused them to shiver as they moved quickly and silently hoping to reach their next stop before dawn. if cloudy skies had stirred the

noon, their guide was able to feel the moss on a tree trunk and tell them which direction they should take. despite the dangers and the risks the men were glad for their fortune trusted to the woman known as moses. tubman decided to move off the highway to cross an open field. the field ran out and tubman and her companions faced an unfamiliar river. she walked along the banks to see if there might be a bridge or even a boat to get them across. after a fruitless search fearing unrise might overtake them tubman insisted they would have to cross on foot. the two men refused fearing drowning more than the slave-holder's lash. rather than draw her pistol or waste her breath harriet waded across alone and after she maded it to the other side they followed. soaked and weary finding they had to ford another wide stream

before they came to a cabin, tubman determined that a black family lived within and used her powers of persuasion to obtain food and shelter. there were severe penalties imposed on any who assisted fugitives and those offering a hiding place needed reassurance. suspects were thrown in jail with the flimsiest of evidence. back in harriet's home county there was a reverend suspected of harboring fuges fugitives, they could find no evidence but a copy of "uncle tom's cabin" which for an african-american in pre-war maryland made him fined, thrown in jail and he served the sentence of 10 years. so certainly this was a very dangerous proposition -- the three soaked, weary pilgrims rested up for what lay ahead. once they were restored enough to continue they thanked their host and resumed their journey

northward under the cover of night. such accounts were rich with exotic detail and kept her listeners rapt. once when she had to pass through a town near her maryland home near daylight she walked the streets incognito equiped with a large sun bonnet pulled down over her face. she also had purchased two chickens and as an extra measure of precaution she tied strings to their feet so when she did recognize one of her former masters she pulled on the strings and the chickens began to flap and squawk. she tended to her agitated birds, avoiding eye contact with the men who passed inches away from her. harriet was always prepared with a change of costume or some other diversion. on another occasion traveling in a railway coach, she saw one of her former masters and she picked up a newspaper and began to read in. instead of panickings she fooled this man who would not see her reading as he thought

her illiterate. tubman rarely ventured on to plantations herself during her abductions in the south, instead spread the word along the slave grapevine informing members about the time and place of a rendezvous. she might provide false information at first to plush out -- to flush out betrayals but once she made an appeal for embarking on the path to freedom, she crafted erexpeditions with cream care. white ab -- with extreme care. white abolitionists said she directed them by her songs as to whether they might show themselves or continue to lie low. no one would notice what was sung by an old colored woman as she trudged along the road, said blackwell. saturday evening was the regular gathering time for recruits, as many slaves with family abroad off the

plantation would go visit on saturday night and spend sunday with their family. any slave who took off with tubman on a saturday night would not be discovered missing until monday morning, and once the absence was confirmed, his or her master could get a poster printed on monday and couldn't get a notice in the paper until tuesday, which gave harriet and her fugitives a lead of a day. while on a mission behind enemy lines in a slave state, tubman demanded discipline. she was not afraid to expert her authority and forced everyone to toe the line. she carried a pistol and was able to use it which earned her a reputation for toughness. there were occasions which circumstances dictated that she use force as well as persuasion. she recalled a particularly difficult ordeal when she had a shepherd a party of 25 fugitives who were losing heart during a grueling trek. at one point, they had to hide in a swamp all day long and well into the night, deprived

of food. cold, damp, resolved crumbling with each passing hour, one man said he was going to take his chances on the plantation but tubman warned him he couldn't leave. it would hurt the entire operation. when it was time to move forward, he wanted to head back, tubman stepped up to him and aimed a revolver at his head, saying, "move or die." he went on with the rest and in a few days he was in canada, a free man. harriet tubman symbolizes the most powerful and purest elements of the underground railroad movement. righteous self-determination and defeat of unjust laws through collective resistance. those who fought the slave power only with l words or at a comfortable distance remained unexposed to the dangers tubman faced repeatedly on her road to freedom. during her underground railroad career, she risked her own life, her own freedom, again and again, making daring

rescues to liberate others and all this was undertaken while she suffered a very severe disability which she and her friends referred to as "losing time" which we today think that she might have suffered from narcolepsy or a form of epilipinski -- epilepsy. whatever her disease, she faced it with courage and without complaint, hallmarks of her career. tubman became a friend and an admirer of john brown. after their first brief meeting they formed an abiding mutual bond. they shared an intense, impassioned hatred of slavery and both were willing to act on this belief. brown always called tubman "general" which signaled his high esteem for her accomplishments and his recognition that she took a military role, that she was a warrior. tubman, unlike fred ridge -- frederick douglass was willing to join john brown on his raid to incite a slave uprising in the south. brown's repeated postponement of the date prevented tubman

from joining him on the attack on harper's ferry but in the wake of brown's death and his martyrdom, harriet tubman participated in her first public rescue of a recaptured slave. in 18 saket charles nall, a light-skinned fugitive was being held in new york. in october nall had fled virginia to try to find his wife and three children who were emancipated and living in pennsylvania. by the spring of 1860 he had moved to troy where he was employed as a coachman, but his luck ran out when a virginia bounty hunter, the southern agent of nall's owner came to town to reclaim him. the slave-catcher was none other than nall's own brother, a free black who had been paid to do a slave-master's dirty work. in a significant twist of fate, harriet tubman was in troy visiting a relative when she heard about nall's being taken into custody. she wrapped herself in a shaul,

carried a food basket and climbed the steps to the second floor hearing room, appearing an elderly innocuous room which eased her way into the guarded legal chamber. she was standing in the back when it was announced this that nall would be shipped back to virginia. tubman knew she must seize the moment. she worried about getting nall down to the river safely but in the blink of an eye this frail old woman grabbed hold of nall, wrenched him free, dragged him downstairs into the waiting arms of comrades. an eyewitness reported she was beaten over the head with policemen's clubs but never for a moment released her hold. bleeding and half conscious, nall was hauled down to the river by a rescue party, rode across the water on a skiff. however authorities were waiting on the opposite bank and he was taken to custody but his boat was followed by a ferry full of 400 irate

abolitionists led by harriet tubman. when she landed her rallied her followers to storm the building where nall was being held. bent on liberation, a human battering ram wreaked havoc. a witness reported "when the men who led the assault on the door of judge stewart's office were stricken down harrit and -- harriet and a number of other colored women brought him out and put him on a wagon starting him the west. "the troy times" described the rescuers numbered lawyers, editors, public men and private individuals, the rank and file, though, were bla -- were black, an african fury is entitled to claim the greatest share of the rescue. tubman used this leading role in the liberation of slaves but nall's rescue was the first public battle that she led. she had earned the nickname of mosesot underground railroad but clearly she was a -- moses on the underground railroad but clearly she was a joshua as

well. she wrote that shot was flying like hail above her head but she knew what most americans would discover, what john brown had demonstrated a few months before. slavery was war. after the civil war was formally declared, in a sense moving an underground movement above ground, tubman joined with federal forces, first in virginia and then in south carolina. she continued her struggle to destroy slavery as a spy, as a scout, for union generals. these clandestine activities were finally recognized with a federal pension after 30 years of petitions to congress. she was at first given a widow's pension in 1893, then in18 99 the pension increased, nearly tripled in recognition of her wartime service and this wartime service can be found recorded in the congressional record. she spent her post-war years in the finger lakes region of upstate new york where she devoted herself to justice and benevolence, and by the 1870's

she was described in a local paper as "a noted colored philanth roppist." after sheltering the needy in her own household for decades she was finally able to open a charitable home for blacks in her adopted home of auburn, new york, she was outspoken on behalf of women's suffrage and other movements at the turn of the century and when she died in 1913, booker t. washington and other race leaders hailed her for her exemplary sacrifice and contributions. writing a biography of tubman has been both a joy and an incredible challenge, joyful in that her life is so inspirational and challenging because her status as a folk hero and in many -- folk heroine in many ways shows how little data is recoverable about her life. although she's lauded as a heroine of the underground railroad there is little mention in civil war literature

of her extraordinary contributions during the conflict, especially working behind enemy lines in confederate south carolina, in missions as far south as fernandina, florida, because tubman remained illiterate even after she claimed her own freedom there are few dictated letters and no diaries on which to draw to reconstruct her life. obituarieses which followed her death on march 10, 1913, yet like many born in slavery her birth date remains unknown. scholars seek the exact year of her birth which would be especially useful to those excavating her birthplace in a farmstead near buckmantown, maryland, a project supported by the maryland state arkifes. when i started my own research in the 1990's i searched for traces of tubman and her family in the newspapers and archives, in history books and ault usual places and as our introducer

pointed out she was a footnote, she was an anomaly, she would pop up and quickly fade. maryland state archivist crit haley prompted me to expand my searches beyond microfilm, beyond archives, to meet the people dedicated locally to the preservation of tubman's legacy, sterling advice for which i remain grateful. during my pursuit i have encountered so many generous, dedicated researchers, the men and women of the harriet tubman museum in cambridge, maryland who supervise pilg -- pilgrimmages and tours as well as an annual celebration so go on down to the eastern shore, tomorrow, march 10, harriet tubman day. i confronted the influence of place when i went there, my guides so passionate about where harriet might have been, where she might have lived, where she started her road to freedom.

just last year a runaway advertisement for tubman, an item which has eluded scholars and activists turned up in the hands of a local preservationist. in 1997, maryland native jay meredith moved his family to bucktown, to settle on property where his slave-holding ancestors had once lived. he hoped to create a flourishing tourist site as a refurbished bucktown village store. the store was the place where as a young female slave harriet once ran to to warn a field worker about an overseer's pursuit. harriet came been between the pursuer and the slave he was trying to throttle and she was felled by an an iron weight. this is one of the few documented sites where harriet's years in maryland. in the early spring of 2003 meredith discovered that the heirs ofa i -- of a local family that had lived for

generations in the same eastern shore home were pilling up a dumpster, a word that sends chills through the hearts of historians. he inquired if he might take a look at what was being thrown out, he and his wife donned overalls and rubber gloves and proved the maxim that one person's trash is another's treasure. when the couple unerthed a paper advertising the search for tubman. harriet's fame before and during the civil war coincided with the emergence of the daggero type. this is a lucky stroke for the underground leader as photographic images became instrumental to her identity. because she was illiterate, letters of introduction were not appropriate. it could be a costly mistake if tubman were to reveal her agenda to a fellow traveler. her collection of photos helped

her to prevent such mishaps. when she made contact with persons she had never met before she showed her pictures of her colleagues on the underground railroad and if she could identify them by name she knew she was talking to a fellow traveler. i am pleased, of course, because we have many wonderful portraits of tubman, many of which appear in my book. in 1903, tubman donated her charitable home to the a.m.e. zion church which maintains this facility as a museum, as an ededucation -- as an educational center and is working with preservationists to expand its mandate. a popular 19th century print of tubman shows her holding a rifle, the visual link between an elementary school heroine and such a weapon has caused consternation among educators, discussions on electronic lists and letters to the editor attempt to turn tubman into some kind of symbol for current battles over gun control. this is not really a surprise to me because following the

release of the national history standards in 1994 tubman's name was frequently invoked as an example of flaws associated with guidelines, after protracted debates in which proponents of the standards hammered away at revisionist harriet tubman became a hot button for conservative critics, a symbolic whipping girl for political correctness but even as pundits bickered she had has continued to blossom in the popular culture. i have bought tubman mugs, stamps, pins, teeshts -- t-shirts and with my children i travel and find her in cyberspace, certainly there are school websites i encourage you to go online and type in harriet tubman, see the wonderful art work. a favorite image hangs in my study sent to me by the daughter of my editor, debra baker, and lyla's hand-made portrait reminds me of the responsibilities those of us have to future generations, however, harriet tubman's

legacy is not for children only. can it be any surprise that there are domestic abuse shelters in the united states which evoke her name, that in canada, where she settled in the 1850's, at york university in ontario they have established the harriet tubman resource center on the african diaspora, that the u.s. park service is now undertaking an important study which will release its findings in an evaluation in 2005 on how we should honor harriet tubman. public statuaries featuring tubman popping up from boston's south end to battle creek, michigan, to pennsylvania, and let a hundred harriets bloom. as you can tell i can keep going for hours, on her first husband, on the mystery of her adopted daughter, on her second husband which was at -- who was at least 20 years youngerb, on her spiritual vision, on her

fame as a healer but i hope you would appreciate i would like to hear from you because i know everyone has a harriet story to share, so i thank you and i would welcome your questions and your comments before we all keep going. thank you. i find when i go around and give these talks, everyone has a favorite harriet story they would like to tell or share or -- so i welcome your comments or your questions or your queries. but please come up to the microphone if you wouldn't mind and just, maybe, speak your name so i can say hi and -- just lean into it and it will talk back. >> i want to say, first of all, welcome.

>>[inaudible] >> and your name is? >> fred. >> ok. thanks. fred. >>[inaudible] >> what can you do as >>[inaudible] >> what can you do as far as your book as far as young people? i would like to see more of this on the ethnic side. we have the same old same old and you see each other all the time. >> you want -- so -- i -- i

understand -- well, i tell you, harriet rocks. that's one thing. and i don't joke about this. young girls look to her, and her heroism has not been diminished and children look and they see an individual who was not given a voice, an individual who was robbed of personhood by the laws of her country, who stood up to the slave power and said, "i am, and i will be, and i have faith in myself, and i will achieve. and that lesson has really withstood the test of time. that is why since 1990 there were 20 books published in the children's field on harriet tubman and since 2000 there have been 17. so there are 37 books written on her. now we're having a renaissance and it's time for the parents to learn about harriet tubman, to put some flesh and blood, to learn that she was a warrior,

that she fought for what she believed in, that she fought for women's rights. i want the whole story of harriet tubman, not the maternalistic vision of her that appears in the children's books but a broader book. you do mention the subject of getting it out into the schools so i did speak in schools. i don't speak on harriet tubman in schools because i'm trying to take her off the children's shelf and get her back on -- where she belongs but working on harriet, i came across a woman named susie king taylor who served as a laundress, a teacher, a nurse in south carolina. she was in the hilton head area when harriet tubman was there. she wrote a memoir of her time with the south carolina volunteers and i'm pleased to say that i'm going to write an introduction for that, a reissue, but also if you go to my website, www catherineclinton.com i have a secret life. i also write children's books. when i was teaching at harvard

in african-american studies and i was going out on the road i was recognizing that there was a hunger for history. there is a hunger for stories. we needed to get people out of "star wars" and out of the stars of the past so i'm writing a children's book on susie king taylor. we don't need role models simply within the black community, we need them within america. i believe all americans need to join in celebration of someone like harriet tubman. so that's my -- the microphone, please, fred. help him out. >>[inaudible] >> yes, they do. yes. and i also would say to you some of my colleagues in the

academy might question my decision to -- my decision to write for children. i say i'm expanding my audience, writing for 10 and above, i'm trying to get at that because if we're going to teach at the university and expect for students to come in being in love with history, i think we have to give them a history in the schools, and teachers are working against the culture as you point out, a pop culture which doesn't look to history. i welcome it. i will say at the beginning, talking about films, that i think it's important to have the voices of the past, and you read some testimony here. i would like to say i have been moved by "unchained memories" which is an hbo library of congress documentary which is the actual voices from the w.p.a. narratives, a wonderful teaching tool and a whole group of african-american actors appear and talk and you hear their voices, ruby dee, ossie

davis, samuel jackson and oprah winfrey speaking these words directly to us, it's a wonderful experience so i do i think there is a revival. maybe it's not on the networks, maybe it's on cable but i think we're all going in different corrections -- different directions but you have been very patient so please come up to the mike. >> my name is john. i live in new jersey. a comment. >>[inaudible] >> my question -- philadelphia. >> yes. >> i wonder if you could say a few words. in order to become part of that whole -- >> i would like to say that the comment was made earlier that they didn't want to teach slaves to read so that they wouldn't know which directions to go, and that's very true. knowledge is a dangerous thing.

harriet said like her friend sojourner truth she didn't know how to read but she could read people and she came to the realization if she couldn't have liberty "give me death" and it wasn't exactly from patrick henry she was quoting but rather from masada, in the bible. she wanted that liberty. she knew it must be somewhere. imagine what it was like for her in 1849 coming to philadelphia, here was a city where an african meeting house, here was a city with the demosthenes society, african-american libraries, abolitionist societies, here were incredible free black societies, a vigilance committee, william still you mentioned -- he, of course, had to keep a secret record of those fugitive slaves that came through, thomas garret in wilmington, delaware was someone who kept records she was close to.

in 1850, when the united states passed the fugitive slave law which was called the bloodhound law by its opponents it endangered every fugitive living in the north and those people who had helped transport people to the north had kept records. and they wrote down slave names. harret's -- harriet's slave name was arminta ross. she took the name harriet when she came to freedom, she was arriminta tubman but when she came to freedom she took the name harriet, this name written down was one which was kept secret, still had to hide his records in a cemetery and he didn't publish a record of the fugitives until the 1870a, and when he published this book it was a wonderful document, it still remains in print and is actually one of our remaining wonderful books on the underground railroad. in 2004, later this yeert

underground railroad freedom center is going to be opening in cincinnati, ohio, and this wonderful resource which is called a center because it's outreaching through the internet. you can go online and see it. it's outreaching to places where we can recover and rebuild this history. the underground railroad was one of the largest, most extensive, most significant movements in american history. why don't we know about it if? it was clandestine. it was a secret. no records were kept. but we do know that the testimony, the oral history kept at the time, passed down in families is something we can recover. and philadelphia is right at the crossroads. like w.e.b. dubois said a hundred years ago it was the place where people came seeking freedom, it was the place where slave-hunters come to capture free blacks and drag them back to slavery, so it was a real crossroads and i think that it has a proud history, and harriet embraced that when she came here and found her first

taste of liberty, her first taste of freedom hereot streets of philadelphia. yes, sir. >> i know it's a matter of >> i know it's a matter of time. >>[inaudible]. >> your name? >> my name is david. >> david, ok. >>[inaudible] >> i have mixed feelings about a caucasian representing harriet tubman only from the point of view that my own history is being represented by people who by way of their privilege -- i want to

congratulate you on your privilege. >> that's a very good question. >> in reference to what she has -- >>[inaudible] a white guy trying to put me in my place and i had to set him straight that my great grandfather and my grandfather, my father and my uncles and myself were all veterans and before, during and after every conflict that this country has gone through we've shown them we still find that this country has -- >>[inaudible]

>> so the role of the black veteran is one that you are -- would you mind if i respond to that one? just because i do knowledge think that it's important in this particular time that we do recognize the fact that african-americans have served in the armed forces of the united states, during the american revolution, the call to freedom, african-americans responded to it. a quarter of the continental navy was african-american. as you point out, after the american revolution when people thought service in the american armed forces, fighting for liberty, would guarantee them their liberty, many slave-holders went in and tried to recapture their property. men would say "why can't i serve in my state militia? why can't i serve in the pennsylvania or the massachusetts state militia?" because their complexion was their crime. and this is something they wrote about very powerfully, very movingly, and i just have to say as a historian of the american past, i write on many

topics. i write on slavery. i write on women's history. i write on african-americans. and i am very moved by these stories and i think they should get out there and i wrote a children's book called "the black soldier" which deals with this problem all the way flew and how harriet tubman as a woman warrior was denied her pension for her work. she had to receive it as the widow of a veteran. so these battles are still ongoing but i still think we need to recognize them, and i agree with you that representation is an issue but i think each of us has our story. each of us should get the word out. one of my problems was that i was teaching students. i was trying to tell them how compelling i found her story and i really thought perhaps if more people knew about her there would be movements. so tomorrow, for example, harriet tubman day in cambridge, maryland, i'm going to speak in new york city, i'm not getting a fee for this

speaking, i'm trying to spread the word about harriet and i really do believe that we need to do each what we can do within our community. she went to auburn, new york, she reached out to the needy people in her community but she also went to those who were of privilege and demanded that they support the charitable work of supporting those people who were disabled, who were people of color, who were denied access to social services throughout the state of new york. so i think there is an important message to get out and if children and adults get that message maybe we can work together today to try and do something about the injustices which harriet tubman would want us to address. >>[inaudible] >> your success, the white community's success has come at

a cost and that's part of the problem. >>[inaudible] >> i'm going to say that i believe that every year the united states government is sent a petition by a member of the black caucus asking for a commission to be established to look into that. every year, it's turned down. look into that. every year, it's turned down. i believe that consideration conversations are what we really need to engage in, and for example, when i was teaching at the city university of new york, i held a conference on slavery's legacy and we tried to talk in conversation about these very issues. edward ball was there talking about slaves in the family. one of the descendants who has been proven by d.n.a. to be a descendant of thomas jefferson was there. and the issue came up, and i would say that i as an academic

welcome discussion on this, and i welcome my colleagues having open and spirited debate. >>[inaudible] >> i guess maybe -- i also feel very strongly that right now within the world we have slavery. we are dealing with a system right now that some people have suggested that there are as many people in slavery right now around the world as were transported across the atlantic during the transatlantic slave trade. this is a very important problem. it's being addressed by the u.n. it should be addressed by the u.s. government. it's one that i feel is very significant. a brand new book has come out called "slaves, dealing with a woman captured in the sudan. her story is very compelling and i would like to see us try

and imagine that harriet tubman in the 21st century would be telling us that we need to fight slavery as well as to deal with the issue of slave reparations. >> one more thing i want to put in front of you. this thing of name -- only because i heard you mention that. harriet tubman's name was not harriet tubman. i have found that i will know that america is on its way to a different place when i can -- first of all, i have a problem that i have to go to a caulk aution -- to a caucasian to get permission to stop using a caucasian surname and get the name that i choose of my own passport, and this whole thing about what is her name, out of respect, it's almost like it's better to just say

>> she had many names and her parents called her ariminta, then she married john tubman and took his name and then when she went into freedom she took the name harriet which was her mother's name and may have been the name of one of her disappeared sisters. we were talking about the maryland slave trade. the eastern shore of maryland provided cash crops for the rest of the united states and the carb crop were slave children which were -- cash crop were slave children which were sold oway -- sold away into the south. she talked about ariminta being her name and she talked about taking the name harriet, so i guess as a scholar i am trapped to take the names as she testified to them. if you don't mind, there is another gentleman -- >> i was clear. it's not the first name that's the issue. >> it's the last name. ok. >> and that there is so much energy that goes into making it

difficult to get rid of that. thank you very much. >> ok, david. i'll learn your last name later, i hope. >> good evening. my name is w8 weiger. i am wondering in your research have you come across a particular incident that springs to your mind in terms of what harriet said in terms of exemplifying the attitude of slavery. >> there are several stories from childhood that do spring to mind. she said that she grew up like a neglected weed, just given food and water but wasn't given the nourishment she needed, not by her parents who loved her and told her bible stories and gave her the presence to be the person -- the presents to to be the person she came but she was put out to hire. slave-masters came and collected her when she was five years old. she was taken away from her parents. one of the very first

instances, she was left in a household where she was taking care of a baby and all day long she would do domestic labor for this plantation mistress and then at night she was expected to rock the cradle so the baby wouldn't cry, and when the baby did cry, the mother, instead of reaching for her child, reached for a whip and used this whip on the five- or six-year-old harriet tubman to punish her for the infraction of her sleep being violated by her own child crying, and that, i think, is a story she tells with a great deal of poignancy. >> thank you. >>[inaudible] >> thank you. i'll try to be quick. >>[inaudible]

>> that's usually how i find out about authors' books such as yours. >> do you have a weekend addiction to their nonfiction? i know. >> i would also say thank you. i disagree with my brother back there a little bit because i'm appreciative of you writing a book about things about black americans and also, douglas brinkley wrote -- i call upon you to read this book. >>[inaudible] >> and i would like to add that rosa parks was born within a few weeks of harriet tubman's death in 1913, so if we think about doing american history, not just african-american -- >> correct, correct. i don't call myself a black american because of that because i don't want my black american forefathers to be tarnished as not being part of building this country even if it was slavery, which was

unfortunate, but i don't want to forget them by -- that's why i count myself as a black american. the point i wanted to say too there are several freedom fighters who lost their lives during the civil rights movement and when i say civil rights i'm talking from 1700 all the way to the current day that have lost lives in struggle along with black people so we mustn't forget that, especially black americans, we need to recognize that we wouldn't have been able to do it by ourselves. if you think that's true, then i advise you, please read rosa parks. by douglas brinkley. it will open your eyes to a lot of things. my question to you is brief and up tempo. what's going to be your next project? >> when i was down in south carolina, i taught for a year at the citadel, a little institution in charleston which

has recently accepted women into the ranks of cadets, and while i was down there i was working on tubman, i was working on fort wagner, my next children's book is actually called "hold the flag high," the story of william carney, the first african-american -- william kearney, the first african-american medal of honor winner and i'm working on susie king taylor who was a laundress, an educator, she wrote her memoir of her service with the first south carolina volunteers and i'm writing an introduction for a new addition of her -- for a new edition of her memoirs coming out of the university of georgia press and i'm going to be doing a children's book on susie king taylor. my next big biography that i'm planning to launch into is a study of mary todd lincoln but mary todd lincoln is someone who figures prominently in american history and we just began to reexamine women's roles and indeed her closest

friendship during her white house years was with elizabeth keckley, an african-american seam stress, someone who supported her and i think we need to get a new view of this fasfating -- fascinating first lady. >> thank you. thank you very much. >> thank you.