>> find out where c-span's local content vehicles are going next. onli online at c-span.org/american content. in september 18, '49, harriet tubman escaped from slavery in maryland and fled to philadelphia. over the next decade, she became

one of the underground railroad's most notable conductors. in harriet tubman: the road to freedom, it details her time as a scout, a sky, and a nurse for the union army. clinton describes her work from march 2004. >> thank you. >> good evening. >> good evening. wake up y'all, it is early. all right. that's a little better. i was running late, but did i come prepared? all right. i would not let you down. anyone someone has a

conversation about someone as important in black history and american history as harriet tubman, a conversation about harriet tubman and a footnote in african american history and american history books and finally we have a serious historical study about harriet tubman. i'm not going to discuss the book, because the author is here. there's plenty of books to go out and buy. what i would like to do is discuss the historical context in which this book talks about harriet tubman. too often we don't discuss american slavery in the public schools, or catholic schools or any of the schools in our big cities. first and foremost, let's talk real numbers. because a holocaust took place

in this country. there have been many holocaust and the holocausts i want to talk about is racial slavery. 20 million, 30 million, possibly as many as 50 million people of color were snatched from their home in africa in the 15th, 16th, 17th centuries. less than half of these people snatched from these lands survived and lived on into adulthood. slavery didn't just pop up overnight. slavery in the american colonies did not exist in 17th century england from which most of the colonists came from. slavery evolved overtime, turning indentured servitude

slavery for the darker people. there were free black men in colonial virginia before the mayflower. most of you don't accept it and don't know it and most of the students have no concept of how this country came to be. black man who owned the land grew the crop of the day tobacco and even some of these black man even held paper on indentured servants who were white. for a time all men were equal and could rise to their accomplishment as the colonists first envisioned, it was obtainable for a time. but people who believed that anybody who was not christian was believed to be a lesser human being, these notions, these notions combined with the

attitudes and the cultural change within the colonies eroded the division of equality and slavery. at the same time it began to replace the agrarian model. slavery is not studied in american schools today. the chains, the whippings, the rapes are deleted or even softened in most of our textbooks, the passion which we see today, the passion of christ, it surprises us because we don't teach the passion of what happens in this country. it has been almost 30 years since "roots" was on network national broadcast television. history is not today part of our national popular culture. the civil war documentary by ken burns touched a nerve in this

country and people watched it for hours and hours and bought the vhs version and now they can buy the dvd version. "roots" is no "gone with the wind". no many times you watch the classic novel, you'll never learn about slavery in "gone with the wind". it is about as close to slavery as jennifer lopez and ben affleck is about true love. that's where they get their history and not in the classrooms or the schools

nearby. turn now to omstead to get a taste of what slavery was really about. a taste of what racial servitude in the 17th and 18th century was actually like. therefore i believe that many of you in this room don't grasp the deeply ingrained layers it took, and how they were thought of as whites. even the great emancipator in the middle of his first team, during the early days of the civil war when the north was losing every battle, he felt no qualm about expressing his own belief that the darker races were less than human. once debated, the great emancipator declared in these sentiments to an audience and i quote "i have no purpose as to

introduce political and social equality between the black and white races. there's a physical difference between the two which in my judgment probably forever forbid their living together on the footing of perfect equality. he is not my equal in many respects, certainly not in color, and perhaps not in intellectual or moral endowment. he's the equal in me only in the right to eat the bread which is in own hands earned". so said abraham lincoln. whose hatred of slavery had not yet progressed to the point where he could accept or overcome his ambivalence about the quality of the races. it is against this context that we should approach this book on harriet tubman. racial slavery, human bondage in this country lasted at least 250

years. previous have been connected with the rules of war. in our case, it was based on race, supported by religion and tied to the economics of an era built on a plantation caste system that consisted of the most brutal set of human beings by others. violence was the overarching reality for all slaves. whipping and lynchings. the structure of the black family was a consequence of slave auction. illiteracy was used as a means of control. if you couldn't read, you were unable to do what? tell directions. you couldn't set plans and communicate with other slaves. thus whites were punished for teaching blacks to read and

write. discussing and giving a broad understanding to the conditions that harriet tubman escaped and why she went on to lead several hundred others of her brothers and sisters to freedom. there are no better witnesses to the peculiarity of this institution which brutalized and kill the genius of my forebears. people in this room ask why i or a man like michael court do what we do, why we volunteer our time and our energies to the plight of our people. we stand on their shoulders, their burden was harsh. ours is to make sure that the world never forgets it and to

ensure our children never have to fear it, never, never again. take a look for just a second at the context of the story. slavery was a dirty business in both hispanic and protestant america. in both areas slaves were given a new conception of themselves according to the different likes of their captors, in liberal brazil or harsh south carolina was a painful mine reversing operation, in which two or three out of every ten died. in one form or another every slave from africa went into this breaking in period. he got a new name and began to look at himself or herself and

others in a different manner. he became st. peter, replacing african religious and rituals. the strain was too much for tens of thousands who died of old and new diseases. but to million of others testifying to the physical and spiritual strength that transcended the heroic they survived and surviving they ensured the survival and prosperity of america which fashioned out of their mystery the takeoff capital which made american capitalism possible.

the efficacy of the exemplary punishments must be read in this light. the slaves objected not so much to punishment for disobeying the rules, even when they thought the rules unfair as to the inhumanity that allowed one man to vent his passions on another. "i wonder if it be a sin" she wrote. the slave holders their frequent use of the rep. branding, ear cropping, from the list of punishments. the burning alive of alleged

rapists and murderers also declined. iron collars and "nigger boxes". continued in effect on some plantations. great atrocities during the late antebellum period. in san dominique, which we now call haiti on the eve of the great resolution. the life and times of frederick douglas, the great abolitionist who himself was a slave. very similar to harriet tubman. they died just a few years apart also. he writes, one of the first circumstances that opened my eyes to the cruelty and wickedness of slavery and its

heartening influence upon my own master was his refusal to interpose and shield a young woman. a cousin of mine who had been beaten from the his overseer. this overseer was like many in the rest of class a brute. he was a miserable drunkard, a man not fit to have the management of a drove of mules. he committed the outrage, down to my old masters for her protection. the most pitiful appearance. she had left in haste and without preparation. she had travelled 12 miles,

bare-footed. dealt her a blow on the head with a hickory club which left her face literally covered with blood. the woman that you're about to hear about is harriet tubman. that's not actually her real name. but we'll hear from the author mrs. clinton. she died in 1913, a little more than a decade after her most famous freedom fighter. that a woman would go on to accomplish so much that her exploits would aspire legends. this book is so useful, now during a time when young black women have only images on videos to aspire them. my pleasure to bring the author of "harriet tubman: the road to

freedom" katherine clinton. >> thank you. you take me back to my days at harvard university when these books were first published. indeed it was the very cruelty and immediacy of slavery that made me pursue my work in african american studies, thank you for calling me a new author, but i have been around for a while. this is my favorite book, because it is so near and dear and i've been working on it for the past few years. i want to thank all of you for turning out tonight. if you're tired keep going. if you're scared, keep going. if you're hungry, keep going. but if you want to taste freedom, keep going. i'm thanking you for stopping here

for a while before we all go back to our lives. harriet tubman is a household name. i hope it doesn't surprise you to know her first biography was published in 1869. however the second followed in 1943. and when i was teaching at harvard in 1991 in the at the point of afro-american studies. i discovered there were dozens of children's print but no scholarly work done in over 50 years. i had my own young children then and i contented myself with reading them the wonderful children's books. most were published by ann

petri. i felt we needed to integrate here into american history. born into slavery in the third decade of the 19th century. harriet tubman lived well into the 20th. she emancipated herself by running away from her maryland donor in 1849. she joined the growing padre of black freedom fighters in the north. she took on the dangerous role of rescuing others. during the 1850s, she became a beloved figure among abolitionists, revered as moses within anti-slavery circles. her infamy grew among slave holders. snatching them and snuggling them safely to freedom.

although we want to expand beyond her underground railroad role. her self-effacing recollections. she told the story of a dark night when three companions moved along a deserted a turnpike. the two males had never been on this road before. blacks abroad feared that mounted patrols could come along at any moment and sleep them back into slavery's nets. pursuing with blood hounds might suddenly appear. more than the autumn chill in the air caused them to shiver to move quickly and silently. if clouded skies obscured the moon. their guy was able to feel the moss on a tree trunk and tell them which direction they must take. despite the dangers and the

risks, they were glad for their good fortune entrusted to the woman known as moses. tubman decided to move off the highway to cross the open field. the field ran out and they faced an unfamiliar river. they walked among the banks to see if there may be a bridge. after a fruitless search. tubman insisted they would have to cross on foot. the two men refused. fearing drowning. rather than draw her pistol or waste her breath. harriet waded across alone and after she made it to the other side the two men followed. they came to an isolated cabin. tubman determined that a black family lived within and she used her powers of persuasion to obtain food and shelter. there were severe penalties on any who

assisted fugitives. suspects were thrown in jail with the flimsiest of evidence. suspected of harboring futures but a copy of uncle tom's cabin, which made him fined, thrown in jail and he served the sentence of ten years. this was a very dangerous proposition. the three soak wearied pilgrims slept all day and rested up for what lay ahead. once they were restored enough to continue, they thanked their host and journeyed northward. once when she had to pass through a town near her maryland

home during daylight, she walked the streets incognito equipped with a large sun bonnet. she also had purchased two chickens, as extra precaution she tied strings to their feet, when she did recognize nice one of her former masters, the chickens began to flap and squawk. harriet was always prepared with a change of costume or some other diversion. on another occasion travelling in a railway coach, she saw one of her former masters and she picked up a newspaper and began to read it, instead of panicking, she fooled this man who would not see this black woman reading as his former slave known to him was illiterate. he didn't take any notice of her and she made it safely to her destination. tubman rarely ventured on to plantations herself during her

abductions with the south. instead she spread the word along the slave grapevine informing members about the time and place for a rendezvous. she might provide false information at first. once she found local prospects to her satisfaction, she made an appeal for embarking on the path of freedom. she crafted her expeditions with extreme care. white ab bolitionists reported that she used gospel music. she trudged along the road. saturday evening was the regular gathering time for recruits. as many slaves with family abroad off the plantation would go visit on saturday night and spend sunday with their family. any slave who took off with tubman on a saturday night would

not be discovered missing until monday morning. once the absence was confirmed. his or her would get a poster printed on monday and couldn't get a poster printed until tuesday. which gave them a lead of a day. tubman demanded discipline. she was not afraid to exert her authority and forced everyone to tow the line. she carried a pistol and was prepared to use it. which earned her a reputation for toughness. there were occasions when circumstances dictated that she use force as well as persuasion. she recalled a particularly difficult ordeal. 25 fugitives who were losing heart during a grueling trek. one man said he was going to take his chances back on the plantation, but tubman warned him he couldn't leave.

it would compromise the entire operation, other fugitives tried to coax him. tubman stepped up to him and aimed a revolver at his head saying move or die. he went on with the rest and a few days he was in canada a free man. harriet tubman symbolizes the most powerful and purest elements of the underground railroad movement. defeat of unjust laws through collective resistance. those who fought the slave power only with their words or at a comfortable distance remained unexposed. she made daring rescues to liberate others and all of this was undertaken while she suffered a severe disability as

her friends describes as losing time. which we today think may have epilepsy. she became a friend and admirer of brown. they shared an intense impassioned hatred of slavery. brown calls called tubman general, which signalled his high esteem for her accomplishments. brown's repeated postponement of the date and poor communication channels prevented tubman from joining him on the attack on harper's ferry. in the wake of brown's death, harriet tubman participated in her first public rescue of a

recaptured slave. on april 27th, 1860. charles null was being healed by authorities in troy, new york. in october of 1858. null had fled virginia to try and find his wife and three children who were emancipated. his luck ran out when a virginia bounty hunter the southern agent of null's owner came to town to reclaim him. the slave catcher was none other than null's own brother a free black who had been paid to do a slave master's dirty work. harriet tubman was in troy vi t visiting a relative when she heard about null being taken into custody. she wrapped herself, and appeared as an elderly innocuous

woman. she was standing at the back when it was announced that null would be shipped back to virginia. she would test the good people of troy. she worried about getting null down to the river safely. in the blink of an eye this frail old woman, grabbed him. she was beaten over the head with policemen clubs but never for a moment lost her hold. authorities had been telegraphed and waiting on the opposite bank. he was taken into custody. taken to a judge's chambers, null's boat was followed by 400 abolitionists bent on protecting the fugitive. she rallied her followers to where null was being held.

a human battering ram reeked havoc. when the man who led the assault on the door of judge stewart's office were stricken down. harriet and a number of other colored woman rushed over the bodies and brought null to the west. many of our most respectable citizens, lawyers, public men and private individuals, the rank and file were black. the greatest share of the rescue. tubman used this leading role in the liberation of slaves. she had earned the nickname of moses on the underground railroad, but clearly a joshua as well. she recalled later that during this rescue shots were flying like hale about her head.

after the civil war was formally declared. she joined with federal forces first in virginia and then in south carolina. she continued to destroy slavery as a spy, as a scout for union generals. she was at first given a widow's pension in 1893. in 1899 the pension increased nearly tripled in recognition of her war time service. it can be found recorded in the congressional record. she spent her postwar years in the finger lakes region of upstate new york where she devoted herself to justice and benevolence. by the 1870s, she was described as a "noted colored

philanthropist". she was finally able to open a charitable home for blacks in her home in new york. when she died in 1913, booker t. washington and other race leaders haled her for her exemplary sacrifice. writing a biography about tubman has been a joy and an incredible challenge. joyful because her life has been so inspirational, challenging because how little we can document, just how little data is recoverable about her life. there's little mention in civil war literature of her extraordinary contributions during the conflict. especially working behind enemy lines in confederate south

carolina. tubman remained illiterate even after she reclaimed her freedom. there are owe b obituaries. scholars seek the exact date of her birth which would be especially useful to those executing her birth place. now when i started my own research in the 1990s, i searched for traces of tubman and her family in news papers, and she was a footnote, an anomaly. she pop-up and very quickly fade. but maryland state archivist

chris haley prodded me to expand my searches beyond manuscripts, he insisted i needed the dedicated people who are engaged locally in her legacy, sterling advice for which i remain grateful. i've encountered so many dedicated researchers. the men and women of the harriet tubman center in cambridge maryland. they supervise tours and an annual harriet tubman celebration. go on down to the eastern shore tomorrow, harriet tubman day. my guides were so passionate, about where harriet might have been, where she might have lived, where she started her road to freedom. just last year, a runaway advertisement for tubman, an item which has eluded scholars and activists turned up.

he moved his family to bucktown to settle on property where his slave holding ancestors had once lived. the store was the place whereas a young female slave harriet once ran to to warn a fellow field worker about an overseers pursuit. it is one of the few documented sites from harriet's years in maryland. in the early spring of 2003. the heirs of a local family were filling up a dumpster. a word that sends chills through the hearts of historians. he inquired if he might take a

look. he and his wife donned some overalls and rubber gloves. meredith proved that one person's trash is another person's treasure. they uncovered a paper containing a runaway advertisement for tubman. the first piece of documented advertisement documenting her flight. photographic images became instrumental to the protection of her identity. because she was illiterate letters of introduction were not appropriate. it could be a costly mistake if tubman were to reveal her plan. she showed them pictures of her colleagues on the underground railroad. if they could identify them by

name then she knew she was talking it a fellow traveller. we have wonderful portraits of tubman and many of which are in my book. she donated to the zions church. it is now working with preservationists to expand its mandate. a popular 19th century print of tubman shows her holding a rifle. the visual link between an elementary school heroine and such a weapon. lists and letters to the editor attempting to turn tubman into some kind of symbol for current battles over gun control. this is not really a surprise to me. following the release of the national history standards. tubman's name was frequently evoked as flaws associated with

guidelines. after protracted debates in which proponents hammered away. harriet tubman became a hot button for conservative critics, a whipping girl for political correctness. she continues to blossom within the popular culture. along my travels, i have bought tubman t-shirts and buttons. there are cool websites that i encourage you to go online and type in harriet tubman. see the wonderful artwork. a favorite image sent to me by the daughter of my editor. reminding me of the responsibilities those us have to future.

in canada where she settled in the 1850s at york university in ontario they have established the harriet tubman resource center. that the u.s. park service is now undertaking an important study which will release its findings and an evaluation in 2005 on how we should honor harriet tubman. public statuaarary is popping all over and let a hundred harriets bloom. as you can tell, i go on for hours on her first husband on her adopted daughter, her second husband. on her visions an her fame as a healer. i really would like to hear from you. i know everyone has a harriet story to share. i thank you and i would welcome

your questions and comments before we all keep going. [applause] >> thank you. i find when i go around and give these talks, everyone has a favorite harriet story they would like to share. i welcome your questions and queries. please come up to the microphone, if you wouldn't mind and maybe speak your name so i can say hi. >> just lean into it and it will talk about. >> i want to say -- first of all, i want to welcome you here and i want to then michael and jerry, because i heard about it through through aunt.

michael cord was filling in for a partner of his. >> your name? >> my name is fred, a businessman in the community. i always seem the same people basically in the same circle. of course you know the rap music and stuff like that has taken over the youth of today. what can you do to get your book into more young people's hand. i would like to see more of this type of situation on the f.m. side of the radio. because you know the a.m. side, we have the same old, same olds, and we see each other all of the time. meanwhile the f.m. side has taken over the youth of today. the history has become unimportant. how would you do that? >> i tell you harriet rocks, that's one thing, and i don't joke about this. i mean, i think young girls look

to her. i think you go out in schools of america and the one thing that's been done is her heroism has not been diminished, children look and see an individual who was not given a voice, an individual who was robbed of personhood by the laws of her country, who stood up to the slight of power, i am, and i will be and i have faith in myself and i will achieve. that's why since 1990, there were 20 books published in the children's fields on harriet tubman. there are 37 books written on her. now we're having a renaissance and it is time for the parents to put some flesh and blood. that she was a warrior and fought for women's rights. i want the whole story of harriet tubman, not the

maternalistic vision of her that appears in the children's books, but a broader view. i do speak in schools, i don't speak on harriet tubman in schools, because i'm trying to take her off the children's shelf and get her back where she belongs. but working on harriet, i came across a woman named susie king taylor. she was in the area when harriet tubman was there. she wrote a memoir of her time. i'm pleased to say i'm going to write an introduction for that a reissue. if you go to my website www.catherine clinton.com, you'll see i have a secret life, i also write children's book. there's a hungry for history and stories. but we needed to get people out

of the "star wars" and back into the exciting stars of the historical past. i'm writing a children's book on susie king taylor as well. we need role models and people who stood up for themselves. we don't need them simply within the black community, we need them within america. i believe all americans need to join in the celebration of someone like harriet tubman. >> the microphone, please. >> i was talk being the youth and age of between 13 and 21. when you're saying children, that could be 9, 8, and 7. i'm talking about those between the age of 13 and 21. they need the history, because they are the ones going out into the future. >> some of my colleagues in my academy might question my decision to write for children. expanding my audience, i'm writing at 10 and above.

if we're going to teach at the university and expect for students to come in being in love with history. i can we have to give them a history in the schools, teachers are working against a pop culture. i welcome it. i will say talking about films, i think it is important to have the voices of the past, and you read some testimony here. i would like to say that i've been very moved by unchained memories, which is an hbo library of congress documentary, which is the actual voices from the wpa narratives, it is a wonderful teaching tool and a whole group of african american actors appear and talk, and you hear their voices to see ruby dee and samuel jackson and oprah winfrey speaking these words to us. i do think there's a revival.

maybe it is not on the networks, maybe it is on cable, but you've been patient, so please come up to the mic. >> my name is john vincent and first to comment. which is thank you very much for writing in book. it is so long overdue. we're all very grateful for that. my question though is because we are currently sitting in philadelphia. >> yes. >> i'm wondering if you could say a few words about how it was that tubman linked up with garrett and william steele in order to become part of that whole nexus. >> well, i would like to say that the comment was made earlier that they didn't want to teach slaves to read, so they wouldn't know which directions to go, that's very true. knowledge is a dangerous thing. harriet said, she may not be able to read, but she knew how to read people. she came to a certain realization, if she couldn't

have liberty give me death. it wasn't exactly from patrick henry she was quoting but rather from the bible. she wanted that liberty. she knew it must be somewhere. imagine what it was like for her coming to philadelphia. here was a city with an african meeting house. here were african american libraries, here were abolitionist societies. incredible free black societies. a vigilance committee. thomas garrett in wilmington, delaware was someone who also kept records. in 1850 when the united states passed the fugitive slave law, the bloodhound law, it

endangered every fugitive living in north and those people who had helped transport people to the north had wrote down record. they wrote down slave names. her name was aramenta ross, she took the name harriet when she came to freedom. when she came into freedom, she took the name harriet. this name was kept secret. steele had to hide his records in a cemetery and he didn't publish until 1870s. when he published this book, it was a wonderful document and still remains in print and is one of our amazing wonderful books. in 2004, later this year, the underground railroad freedom center is going to be opening in cincinnati, ohio, and this wonderful resource which is called a center, because it is

outreaching through the internet, you can go online and see it. it is outreach ting to places where we can recover and rebuild this history. the underground railroad was one of the most extensive movements in the american history, why don't we know about it? it was clandestine, it was secret. philadelphia is right at the crossroads. it was the place where people came seeking freedom, it was the place where slave hunters come to capture free blacks and drag them back to slavery. so it was a real crossroads and i think it has a proud history, and harriet embraced that when she came here and found her first taste of liberty and freedom here on the streets of philadelphia. yes, sir. >> a few things i want to run

down, excuse me, you can respond to what you choose to, i know it is a matter of time. first i wanted to acknowledge mr. montrose thank you for representing. >> your name? >> my name is david. >> i'll go from the bottom of my list. again, you can deal with and respond to whichever one you move to. i have mixed feelings about seeing you up from as a caucasian representing someone named harriet tubman only from a point of view that too often i find that my elders history is being represented by people who by way of their privilege find themselves in a position to do something that we should have been able to do and i'll just leave that at that. i have mixed emotions of whether congratulate you on your privilege and success. hey, at least it is getting out there.

how much of your book price is going toward some sort of charity or museum devoted to harriet tubman. >> that's a very good question. >> okay. >> in reference to what she has or had to scrap to get as a veteran, i got into a conversation right after the towers got hit with a white guy who called himself trying to put me in my place, i had to set him straight that my great grandfather, my grandfather, my father and myself were all veterans. we have got in there and shown them what we can do, a lot of saving these guy's be behinds, this country is still giving them their ass to kiss. i don't know if i can say that. >> would you mind if i respond? >> sure. >> i do think it is important in

this particular time, that we do recognize the fact that african americans have served in the armed forces of the united states during the american revolution, the call to freedom. african americans responded to it. a quarter of the continental navy was african american. as you point out, fighting for liberty they thought it would guarantee their liberty, many slave holders tried to recapture their property. why can't i serve in the massachusetts militia, because their complexion was their crime and this is something they wrote about very powerfully and very movingly. as a historian of the american past, i write on very many topi topics, i'm very moved by these stories and i believe they

should get out there. for example, i've written a children's book called the black soldier which deals with this problem all the way through and how harriet tubman, as a woman warrior, was denied her pension for her work, she had to receive it as the widow of a veteran. so these battles are still ongoing, i still think we need to recognize them and i agree with you that representation is an issue. i believe each of us has our story to tell. one of my problems was that i was teaching students, i was trying to tell them how compelling i found her story, and i just really thought perhaps if more people knew about her, there would be movement. tomorrow, for example, harriet tubman day, i'm not getting a fee for this speaking, i'm trying to spread the word about harriet. i really do believe we need to do what we can do within our own community. she went to auburn, new york. she reached out to the needy

people in her community. but she also went to those who were of privilege and demanded that they support the charitable work of supporting those people who were disabled, who were people of color, who were denied access to social services throughout the state of new york. i think there's an important message to get out. and if children and adults get that message, maybe we can work together today. >> that's on the level that i -- that's where the mixed emotion comes in. i'm glad you're here. i don't knock someone for having some successes in life, you know, hey, at the same time, your success, the white community's success has come at a cost to some other people. and that's why i have a problem with that, but i'm real glad you're out there.

what's your view on rep repreations? >> i believe what this conversations what are we need to engage in. when i was teaching at the city of new york, i held a conference on slavery's legacy and we tried to talk in conversation about these issues. talking about slaves in the families. one of the descendants who has been proven by dna to be a descendant of thomas jefferson was there. the issue came up and i would say that i as an academic welcome discussion on that. and i welcome my colleagues having open and spirited debate.

>> we have had enough talk about it. it is down to america needs to make a choice. are you for us, or against us? >> i guess, maybe, i also feel very strongly, right now within the world we have slavery. we are dealing with a system that some people have suggested that there are many people in slavery right now. this is a very important problem. it is being addressed by the u.n. and addressed by the u.s. government. it is one that i feel is very significant. a brand-new book has come out called slaves dealing with a woman captured in the sudan. her story is compelling. i would like to see us try and imagine that harriet tubman in the 21st century would be telling us that we need to fight slavery, as well as to deal with the issue of slave repreations.

>> this thing of name, only because i heard you mention harriet tubman's name was not harriet tubman. i have found that i will know that america is on its way to a different place -- first of all, i have a problem that i have to go to a caucasian to get permission to stop using a caucasian surname and get a name that i choose on my own passport. this whole thing about what is her name, out of respect, it is almost like it is better to just say she doesn't have a name. she was the great one, or something. >> she had many names, but i would say her parents loved her very much and called her ariamenta and then she married

tubman and that her name. she took her mother's name when she went into freedom. and it may have been one of her disappearing sisters. the cash crop was slave children which were bought and sold away into the south. and so in respect, i believe she took the name harriet and she talked about ariamenta being her name. i guess i as a scholar am trapped to take the name -- >> i wasn't clear. it is not first name that it is the issue. >> it is the last name. >> there's so much energy that goes into getting rid of that.

>> good evening. my name is michael. he talked about the horrors of slavery. i'm wondering in your research have you come across a particular incident that springs to your mind in terms of what harriet tubman went through exemplifying the absolute horror of slavery. >> there are several stories of childhood that do spring to mind. she said she grew up like a neglected weed. she was just given food and water, and wasn't given the nourishment she needed. she was put out to hire slave masters came and collected her when she was five years old. she was taken away from her parents and one of the very first instances, she was left in a household where she was taking care of a baby. and all day long, she would do domestic labor and at night she

was expected to rock the cradle so the baby wouldn't cry, and when the baby did cry, the mother instead of reaching for her child, reached for a whip and used this whip on the five or six-year-old, harriet tubman to punish her for infraction. and that she tells with a great deal of poignancy. >> thank you. >> i'll try and make it quick. >> i'm from indianapolis, indiana. ironically i happened to be in town and i had your book and you appeared. >> go to paris. >> appreciation to you and to c-span, because that's usually how i find out about authors and books such as yours. >> do you have a weekend

addiction to their nonfiction. i know. >> i would like to say thank you. i kind of disagree with my brother back there a little bit. i'm appreciative of you writing a book about a famous black american and also douglas brinkley who wrote rosa parks, it is an outstanding biography and for an icon that's still living in detroit as of this moment. >> i would like to add that rosa parks was born within few weeks of harriet's death. if we think about american history, not just african american history. >> i call myself a black american because of that. i don't want my black american forefathers to be tarnished as not being part of building this country. even if it was on the backs of slavery, which is unfortunate. i don't want to forget them by disowning, that's why i counts myself as a black american.

there are several freedom fighters who lost their lives during the civil rights movement. i'm talking from 1700s all the way through today. that have lost a lot in the struggle along with black people. we mustn't forget. my question for you is brief and real simple, what's your next project and are you planning on writing about another african american or black famous american? >> well, when i was down in south carolina, i taught for a year at the citadel, a little institution in charleston, which has recently accepted women into the ranks of cadets. when i was down there i was working on tubman and working on

fort wagner. i'm pleased that the book will be coming out in 2005. i'm working on susie king taylor, who was an educator. she wrote her memoir with her service with the first south carolina volunteers and i'm writing an introduction for a new edition of her memoirs which will be coming out. and then i'm going to be doing a children's book on susie king taylor. i think my next big biography that i'm planning to launch into is a study of mary todd lincoln. but mary todd lincoln is someone who figures very prominently in american history and we have began to reexamine women's roles and her closest friendship. i think we need to get a new view of this fascinating first

lady. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. [applause] >> today at 4:00 eastern, we feature the city a 1939 documentary originally produced for the new york world's fair. the film argues that modern cities are unhealthy and that planned communities with clean air and safe places to play are a better option. real america, highlighting archival films that help tell the story of the 20th century. >> monday night on the communicators federal trade commissioner on net neutrality, privacy and data security. >> big data is the tool. it can be used well and it can be used poorly. there are many benefits that can

come from it. great new insights in many areas, some that are top of mind for me are in healthcare and, you know, other kinds of research and reaching under served populations in providing new insights in some of our more difficult to solve problems that we face in society. are there risks from big data, as well, i think that's true. i think you can take pieces and assemble them into a profile that may give sensitive insights into a consumer. you have benefits and you have some risks, what do you do then? monday night at 8:00 eastern on the communicators on c-span 2. >> next on american history tv. secretary of state john kerry and former secretaries of state kissinger, baker, albright and clinton, deliver remarks