[ captioning performed by the national captioning institute ] [ captions copyright national cable satellite corp., 2014 ] t was a central campaign issue when the two future presidents aced off in a race for a congressional seat in 1789. this event was recorded in the changing at hands bookstore and it's about

an hour >> thanks so much for joining us. these are treasures. we should support them any way we can. no one is getting out of here until every copy is sold. "founding rivals," james madison versus james monroe, the bill of rights in that saved a nation. for those of you who showed up of ee the lead guitarist kiss, i regret to inform you that that was last night. as important as this project has become to my life, i can scarcely remember the first i learned about this historic congressional race presidents inture 1789. what i do remember is reading about it in a book and it was the typical one twor sentences that you would see about this congressional race. way to ought to myself, bury the lead.

all of a sudden, we're in this race between two future james madison, james monroe. they're debating the most aboutant issues we talked as a country, whether we should have a bill of rights, what kind have.on we should all of a sudden, you're in the next page and you're in the first congress. said way to bury the lead. i ecided to read everything could about the election. no one had written about it the e, i wanted to tell story. it cold opens at the inauguration of george washington. people don't know is that when he took the oath of office, two of the 13 states outside of the union. north carolina and rif ri did ot ratify the constitution because of the concern that it was missing a bill of rights. fundamental f liberties. this was common for the nti-federalists throughout the continent. the common denominator among the federalists of which james was one is that they

oppose the constitution. many came at it from different angles. some genuinely believed you could not have a union to cover all of the different and diverse states. believed in independent states or confederacies but they idn't think any government could be suitable to this entire continent. ames monroe represented a majority of that opinion to his objection to the constitution the missing around the bill of rights. while washington took the oath office, two states, new york and virginia, were agitating for convention.tutional in the words of james madison and george washington, they were at this prospect. they believed they would be infiltrated by enemies of the and the nment constitution will be scrapped and done away with and our union ever to fractured never come together again. the book goes to french and with a conflict fought between -- in the new perhapsd in europe made the first true world war we ever

had between the french, the allies. and their as a result of this war, the ee ee eed -- expelled their opponent from the continent. they removed a check that kept the columnist in terror. the french, the american columnist were not so reliant on great britain. great britain tried to shoulder the cost of this on to the colonies. followed was a cycle of taxation, resistance, oppression point of no return where we ended up in a revolution against great britain. both madison and monroe played important roles. monroe was at the college of william & mary when began.ities he wasn't excited about latin or grammar, he was drilling on the ollege green with his come patriots. lord vernor of virginia,

dunnmore sees the power of the militia in town, no one bought excuse which is he was fearing a slave revolt. hen that ratcheted up hostilities in the virginia continent to the point where and his patriots raided the governor's mansion, was sent north to new york to join with george washington's army. e would serve with washington in many theaters of the war, places like valley forge, philadelphia e campaign, and most importantly, the battle of trenton. famous portrait of george washington crossing going over to d face the ones that were not expecting it. led a vanguard of men across the river in that important battle. the job in the morning before war was to secure the street heading to town so no one would alert the british and their allies as to what was about to happen. christmas. there had been revelry.

they thought the hostilities for the season and were unprepared for the take. alert add doctor. they woke him up. he came outside and started to him because he thought they were british. they were pate rots and he said too am a patriot. something is going to happen tomorrow. i going to go with you so could save some poor soul. the poor soul ended up to be james monroe. critical moment, james monroe charged the cannons, was would down by a bullet, have bled out in the street before trenton had it not been for dr. reiker. one of two incidents that he narrowly escapes death. things how precare yous everything that happened eally was and seemingly small and minor and unrelated events makeire to make the events history. revolutionary war, james

madison served in congress. state of ruin nows affairs. nothing like you could imagine the congress had taken an enormous crippling debt, when congress exhausted the revenue and exhausted the credit, they simply started to print money and give out to people. goodness our leaders today are too wise to do this. serves on something called the board of admiralty. the committee that ran during the war. 3-month-old request from a sea captain for bread and flour. it wasn't that the request was unreasonable, per se, it's simply they didn't have bread or or means to procure to give him. him sent him a note telling to keep up the good work. n 18-gun boat named the saratoga was sitting in the

dock. he truckble with 120 men on it ready to go sea and fight the british was waiting on a little food before it could be deployed. he board had to deal with common criminals breaking into the warehouse and stealing all by a few bolts of canvass. were inspired by george washington's christmas raid. one christmas night, they broke stole the canvass. congress had directed them to distribute the canvass to the it was needed. the orders weren't heeded and he letters to the board are humorous. the men in charge of the warehouse said we killed three responsible. we think we know where to find the first. congress writes back and says, that's nice, but we just want back.anvass they find each other in 1784 and begin a correspondence that

stretches over decades. one was in the legislature, monroe went to congress. alking about the articles in onfederation, in 1777, continental congress put together a plan to unify the states. that, continental congress existed to air against great britain. they had to conduct a war against one of the most powerful in the world. in 1777, they sent the articles of cop federation to the states. accompanied it sounds like an apology. it says it's the best that could circumstances he of all. not very promising. under the articles of hapless tion, the league of friendship was unable to raise revenue on its own, to raise troops on its own. it was unable to conduct any rational trade policy. war, the ter the european powers would punish our merchants, our producers, hit producers with heavy taxes

and tariffs. ecause the national government create a acity to trade policy, they would play against each other. one state would look around and say, you know what? our tariff to lower and have the british goods come in from our state. impossible for the congress to do anything. the s totally unequal to past. the idea of some sort of union in 1784 with the ultimate congress, that was franklin's idea. it was not created with independence in mind, it was generated the fears by the french and indian war. that's to be a body to the response of the impending war. coloniestes from seven and one lob yils.

but it was broke up later adopted to the articles of confederation. the greedy low by sheriff of pennsylvania to. give you an idea, george issued a passport to suppliessh to bring in to feed and clothe their prisoners of war. so they're bringing their wagons in to go to the prisoner of war chesterd the sheriff of county stops them and says, you know what? they the pretense to say brought in too much and planned to sell it on the black market, seized all of their merchandise. powerless to stand up to the sheriff. one sheriff against the states.ent of the united totally unequipped to govern a country like ours. ongress has to deal with a mutiny. with no revenue, the soldiers lose their patience. as the war comes to the conclusion, they're not getting

better about the chances of being paid. hostilities were done, they're not optimistic about what might happen. soldiers went to philadelphia. they're pointing guns in the windows of congress. members of cing congress. and congress is inside trying to figure out what do. the e can do is appeal to government of pennsylvania who tells me it's not problem. and would he capitol only get it back under a new government. congress decide dodd is they would flee like a group of to prince ton, new jersey and reconvened in james madison's old dorm in prince ton. one of the most important issues that madison mooned row had though deal with in their time both in the virginia legislature was the question of the mississippi. the spanish were of a belief. port of new ed the orleans they were entitled to

the mississippi river. james madison pointed out that international law that existed at the time that free and peaceful people could move international boundaries without impunity. so why should the american not at war with pain be more restricted than other place. imagine what losing mississippi the growth appened, of the american west. it's unimaginable had we given wouldn't are e gotten it back. there was a northern confederacy jay, a minister to spain and at different times in affairs e, the foreign minister under the articles of confederation. follows.thought as he thought he was a northerner. the mississippi river is a far off place. it?heard of who needs this far off river? we're going risk a war we can't use.or a river we can't he was firmly of a mind that he

this ing to try to give river away to the spanish. and this gets at the heart of continentalthat the congress and the congress under the articles of confederation had no capacity to bring military might of the nation. and if it had, the spanish would us r have dared to provoke to a war. but the quick thinking of adison and monroe and founding rivals that prevents the mississippi from being lost to the united states forever. about the problems of congress under the articles of confederation. madison and monroe worked hard to try to alter them. hey tried to do two measures principally. post.r one, to pass an end so the trade that comes to the united states would be taxed and united states could stand on its feet, pay its debts, articularly its war debts, particularly the war debts for soldiers that won the

revolution. i had to be passed. they wanted to be able to policy across the continent. little bit about that. because the european powers were the united towards states mercers and producers and they wanted congress to be able to respond in kind. a serious issue, 13 states, 13 different forms of currency used. for fferent standards weights and measures. currency subject to dramatic fluctuation. there was no national judiciary. if you were a new yorker trying to buy something in virginia, know what you were pieing, paying for it, and you would get hometowned if the deal and you had to file a lawsuit. hey were trying to unleash an economic engine to create a military engine but an economic unleash the d american people and it's allowed prosperous most country in the history of the

world. the states wouldn't have it. hey're trying to create a convention. the virginia legislature is the first to call for some sort of ational convention of the states to look at amending the articles of confederation. off madison give this is to john tyler, the father of the future president to pass. a member of is congress, former member of congress suspected of having federal. john tyler who never served in congress had more credibility to all for the new national convention. that's what happened. unfortunately when the delegates maryland, thelis, states didn't send the best people they had. didn't send y anybody. nobody sent the full delegation. a few days and say you know the best we can do is write up a long letter of the we see with the confederation, distribute it to to meet in nd agree philadelphia may next. that gathering we know as the constitutional convention. there as a n goes

delegate. james monroe does not. that madison earns it as the father of the constitution. uses someone else to use the policies which is something used throughout his career that he's more likely to someone oming from else. ma'ammingen to have leaders who don't care about getting the redit but they care about getting results for america. that's james madison. who's the lph governor of virginia introduce the va plan. debate of ubstantive the constitutional convention and it's a basic framework for the government today. executive, the two branchs of the legislature and the judiciary and all of the haracteristics and all of the powers we associate with our national government today. serious fights in the constitutional convention. both sides walk out. issue we have to contend with is one of representation. in the congress of the confederation, every state has

one vote. the bigger states got send a delegation. but all that delegation could do is cast one vote at the end of the day. 700,000 people and delaware has less than 50. and the virginians, not didn't understand why someone in delaware had a right to so much more representation. a big problem. the southern states -- the smaller states will not yield on this point. question of yielding to them in the spirit of accommodation or scrapping the whole enterprise and going back. unfortunately, they did agree that the house of representatives would be based population and the senate would be based on equal the states.on among the philadelphia it goes to constitution. it goes from the constitutional convention in philadelphia to george washington taking the the balcony of federal hall. but what transpires in between two-year knockout, dragout

fight across the copt innocent ratify the o constitution. each state elects the constitution to sit and judge -- constitutional convention to sit in judgment of the constitution of philadelphia. chapters of this book on the va rah ratification most tion as the largest culturally important, commercially important state in the country. that virginia ratifies the constitution. the anti-federalists, the of the constitution, try that and it completely them.red on they decided they're going to hold the debate in june. they figured some states would it.rove some wouldn't. virginia would take them and broker some sort of comp oh ro mize. that's what they thought was going to happen. the problem was they created the virginia y in the constitutional convention. not anti-federalist, not federalists, but people so concerned about preserving the union that they were able to objections to the document and vote for

ratification. one was more important than edwin randolph. he was one of several delegates in philadelphia to refuse to sign the constitution. there's a lot of suspense around what he's going say when he richmond in the virginia ratification convention and what side he's going to come down on. objections to the constitution haven't changed. my positions on this haven't changed. i have my doubts. but at this point, seven states constitution.the eight states had ratified the constitution, excuse me. i'm not going to be the one to from our sister states. so at the end of the day, there's a lot of debate that's some of the leading rights in american history. patrick henry leading the nti-federalist, along with james monroe who decides that despite his frustrations with government, this constitution was too potentially dangerous. it was missing the bill of rights. get behind it. he could get behind something that increased the powers of over ss, specifically revenue and trade. there had to be a bill of rights

o he reluctantly comes out -- but comes out full force against the constitution. george mason is also in the convention.al richard henry lee, some of the most important people in roomcan history are in the in the new academy in choco hill richmond. they try a gambit. they say why don't we stop what doing, recommend some amendments to the united states and pick it up later. this would have the effect of the process.ding the momentum would have stopped there. the vote in new york was going alexander ose that hamilton kept writing madison you don't is lost if pass this constitution in virginia -- no pressure. everything is lost. new york ratifies the more than a after month' debate after virginia atifies and then by three votes. and only then by -- the federalists agree to the nanimous declaration they're going to call for a new

constitution unless there's a rights that comes out of columnists. that measure fails by 88 to 80 votes. votes.ight james madison didn't know he was participate. indeed, if the anti-federalists controlled the government would have scheduled efrlier, madison wouldn't have made it. up in new york. he gives it first speech in a long career of public service, speech in irst support of his candidacy to support it. go 't we glad he decided to down there and participate. the constitution gets ouflt volts.alive by eight all seems inevitable to us but that's how close it was. ratification is a legislative session dominated by henry and the anti-federalist allies. it's a chapter called the terrible session. if you were a federalist, that's

how you would have seen it. of mber of things right off the bat. va calls for a new constitutional convention. who could rick henry be petty and personal in his of tics took a supporter james madison's, came up with a prep tense for him not to be legislator.be a and then referred to the ommittee on privileges and elections. he said of course he's eligible to be a legislator. reported to the floor. he was eligible, and amendments eligible.els not and against the constitution for a long windy speech. do n't know what that has with edward carrington's eligibility. he was expelled from the legislature. he wins a special election three days later. if you were an anti-federalist, a federalist in the virginia legislature. problems, the reasons they were so outmatched is because the leading federalists virginia, the people who had

poken out from the virginia ratification were not part of the legislature. he demanded his majority with absolute obedience was able to end of the gh the legislature. james gordon, the seat made of ratification of orange xoupty went insane. will iz colleagues thought for insane he world he went for having to deal with the backlash in that session of the legislature. drive you crazy. two other important things happen in this session. irst of all, this is back when in the original constitution, the state legislators elected senators. james madison is offered up as a senator. patrick henry talks about rivulents of blood in the land. here's going to be this great turmoil if we elect a federalist to congress and he'll never ever and james r rights madison loses the senate

election to two anti-federalists by narrow majority. is on people's minds, perhaps, no more so than here in arizona. legislature at this time perpetrated the first act american ndering in history. ne author points out, it's the luck that virginia didn't think to call it henry mannering gerrymandering. they didn't have the same data e use today but he had the results of the ratification elections. two delegates from each county. less on were more or the record with their positions on the constitution. o he created a district for madison that was probably 3-1 anti-federalists to federalists. a great start.

a lot of his supporters asked if e would run in a different district. the only district that he could have lost to in virginia was the enemies to by his defeat him. they passed something called the residency law. you have to way, live in your district for a year before you could run. the ted at one man, federalists and anti-federalists had a fight over whether to residency law and the federalists were outgunned and they lost. know, i ecides, you don't want my election to be called into question the first congress. this to become an issue in the district. legislature was one of the ldest institutions on the continent. the constitution says you have to live in your state the you want to run for congress. a lot of members of the house of representatives that don't live in their districts. close enough to live with their constituents. but he's going to stand and ight for his corner and fight for the district that he lives in and the district he's always

lived in. the anti-federalists are around for a candidate to take on james madison. eluctantly they're able to convince their friend james monroe to carry the anti-federalist banner. james monroe was a decorated combat veteran, former member of the virginiaber of legislature, extremely experienced and probably would and stood out head shoulders above any opponent other than the friend, madison, office.a long tenure in when monroe gets into the race, though, however reluctantly, he it full force. while monroe was in congress, he in virginia for the legislature by a near four votes which his campaign manager kept writing him and saying come back and campaign in person. votes. up losing by four i think if you work with politicians long enough, you the losses are sered on to them as a hot iron. what it was ered like to lose that race.

he was not going to lose this for wont of trying. then is now, the candidates rely local supporters in various counties in the district to give them advice about the lay of the important people to reach out to, when to come to the court day and meet with people. they did.t james monroe would write these letters. they would go to one of the and thers in the county supporter would go around and distribute them to different people so they

he said, we have a government of enumerated powers. didn't give the government, for instance, the right to regulate speech, why speech need a free amendment to prevent the government from doing that. you might have implied the thems they didn't mean for to have. you might get some rights from others. premature, a vessel new launched, this new government. a test ut, take it for drive. see what happens. see whether or not we need these amendments. james madison realized as a result of the anti-federalists ratification ia convention and in 1789 in the district, there was a ignificant sentiment in the country. and these people would never

ever be satisfied until a bill passed and s adopted. so north to gain the confidence new s countrymen in this constitutional government, which he saw was the last best chance union ating some sort of that could work for the states, acquiesces in a spirit of accommodation. he makes a campaign promise in the man by the name of george eve. prominent minister in the fifth congressional district. the baptists and other religious minorities were an important political group. they were created like many since time and immoral because the government persecuted them. baptists were arrested in private residences for prayer. created equal, people were being arrested in preaching ested for the gospel. and these -- these folks were extremely concerned about this government.l in fact, there was a unanimous

resolution among the baptists in congressional district, the unanimous resolution that said that the constitution does not ufficiently protect our religious liberty. they deadlocked on a resolution the yolk of lighter.hould be made madison writes the letter to george eaves. this is rural virginia, 1789. one baptist minister went to several churches. madison who passed thomas jefferson's virginia statute of freedom. so madison was a friend to free exercise of religion, they knew that. letter, if i'm elected, i'll support the bill of rights. rights would of be the freedom of religion. in an intense meeting where one eve's congress --

congregations said who do we endorse? out the le to pull letter and rebut the liars. to their great damage cause in the words of one observer. james madison and james monroe, about some of the things that were similar in this election to elections today, one don't see gs we enough of is james madison and james monroe maintained a high viflty toward one another in the course of the campaign. they travelled to th. they stay in the same hotel room. they engaged in long, very heated debates. in a church bates still there the lutheran church virginia, the oldest church in the united states. they stood out there for hours freezing cold. madison got frostbite on the way back. to one of the only war injuries he had and regaled thatsters about stories of campaign.

james madison and james monroe to their mutual friend thomas jefferson after the election that their friendship abated. they disagreed passionately and issues, over important they were civil to one another. ven when the most zealous supporters were uncivil to each other, they were civil to each other. that's reflected in the numerous debates and appearances they had. ames madison by co-opting the issue monroe has takes the wind out of his sails and able to win the election by 336 votes. ne of james madison's biggest supporters said if this happened a fortnight sooner, you would have lost. back to dn't come virginia to campaign in person, you definitely would have lost. consequences? besides being two future presidents for the first and last time in american history? what's important? we talked about the federalist opposition to the bill of rights. congress, the

federalist went lopsided majorities. north carolina staying outside of the union. virginia and new york are convention.or a new the anti-federalists are up and down the continent getting ready fall's elections in order to call their state's constitutional convention union in end to our our constitution. only james madison seemed to opposed bythe threat the anti-federalist movement. hethe beginning of congress, announce there is are going to be a bill of rights considered in this election. reintroduce them. in a nixon goes to china moment, where only the strong anti-communist could have gone to that country and opened it up to the west, james madison is to bring the federalist majority over to his side and pass the bill of rights remarked among madison's many supporters that the anti-s have a new hero, unlikely hero. james madison. and because of the election of 789 that the bill of rights passed, the union is cemented,

e're all here today in the freest, most prosperous greatest country in the history of the world. set against a very unpromising context. a crippling national debt, a that was intensely paralyzed by partisanship, a seemed wholly inadequate. leaders that seem inadequate. you can't imagine it, right? it's impossible to think about. mark twain said history doesn't repeat itself, it rhymes. monroe make themselves trying to make it work against one of the most nfavorable contacts that i think. they rose to the occasion. every generation in american history has faced challenges, first generation did and every subsequent generation did, postlens or war calamity or all

three. each generation rose to the ccasion and passed on the the next generation a country better, stronger, freer, and more prosperous than the one before. e're in trouble right now as a country. but the founding rivals is an optimistic note in history. rose to the same challenges we face today as how we as a nation can go forward. have to get out of this mess. we have to work together to do it. the final line of the book is you hear verythat often in these book readings remember. what i would want everyone to do how in the past when things looked uncertain and difficult, america always has risen to the occasion. and i hope when you read founding rivals, you'll have ptimism about the way we're going as well. i'd be happy to take questions. [ applause ] any questions from anybody?

>> danny? >> besides the creation of the rights, what's another onsequence of the 1789 election? >> two important additional of equences of the bill rights. if that wasn't enough, two other significant events that happened only because madison is there instead of monroe. if madison had not been there instead of monroe, the country faltered on the tarmac. the first is the decision of when they -- when they administrationet to create the president's cabnate positions, there's a be a in there to secretary to be removed by the president. james madison didn't think it was controversial. he touched off the greatest constitutional debate of the first congress. some people said the is silent on this. so congress could grant the removal power but they don't have to. thought, well, i think you need to use the

impeachment method to get rid of the subordinate. some thought you could grant it to congress. only use ht you could impeachment. and others believed that you would remove these people the appointed them, with the advice and concurrence of the senate. well, any one of these scenarios would have been a dramatic blow to the separation of powers in a we created. to our e so critical government. called the constitution a spliem attack on human nature. power was to ng co-less. legislative, and judiciary was created. legislative broken into two and they're all with checks and tyranny.to avoid madison engages in a long debate on the floor of the house. it's uncertain as to what's to happen. the first salvo by the other

side was the amendment to strike he language, saying to be removable by the president. later on, madison wins that by getting behind the same amendment, but not for the that its offerers put it forward. language from the bill, and he added language that said there shall be a clerk of which shall serve as secretary in the event that the secretary is removed by the any other r for reason. offhand reference escape it. would but it makes it clear that the resident can remove the subordinates at will. it would be unimaginable to find return ent who couldn't a cabinet official or lesser official who wasn't in the worka they were elected to on. the second important consequence is the location, the debate over capital in

washington, d.c. and the national debt.he so those of you watching in washington, d.c., you are there this debate and james madison won this election in 336 james monroe. madison emerged as the focal point of the first congress to treasury ary of the alexander hamilton's plan for the states, if for federal debts ent to assume the of the state. hamilton realized it would get very state off to the good footing, restore the public credit of the states. and uld cement the union tie the union together. the southern states ha more or less paid off their bills. not.united states had the southern states wanted to know why they should have to pay debts when eir war they had been frugal and in payr opinion worked hard to down their debt. the northern states said if you won't come to our aid, what's you being in the union at all. peek talking about secession. a bout of influenza hit

washington, d.c. george washington. a very precarious time for the country. homas jefferson runs into alexander hamilton, well polished, well dressed, clean looking none of those things in front of the house. jefferson said, what's wrong? nuts over going this. and what thomas jefferson did wine okered a deal over and food in his house between james madison, the leader of the pposition to this plan and alexander hamilton. madison wasn't going to vote for the plan, but he will not be too strenuous in his opposition. there's some speculation that he additional votes that hamilton needed to put him over the top. turn around, use the influence, the leverage with the northern states who badly select a bill to potomac site for the nation's capital. this is the first great three ise, the first of for the civil war. this kept the country together. what would have been different monroe had been there instead

of madison. aside from the bill of rights, biggest objection of to the constitution was the power of the executive. he had gone to war to risk his tyrant. a he wasn't about to vote for a new one to come out in a different name. he was concerned about the power presidency. he would not have carried the banner the way madison had. he would have voted different executive question. whoy belief that the people believed the president didn't ave the power, they would have carried the debt and upset the delicate balance of powers. with the ou do president that's beholden to the entire employee of the executive branch. monroe was opposed to the awe sufrpgs of state debts like everyone in the south. emerged as the focal point the way madison did. leader of the federalists in congress. it's important to know between then and now. of the house is the most powerful member. but in the first congress, the of the house was confined to a ceremonial role

like the british house of common sense. they didn't have a lot of authority. james madison is the leader of the federalist party in the first congress. the leader of the federalist party opposing the plan of federalist, he was able to block this legislation in a way james monroe would not have been able to. critical things, the bill of right; the first great compromise, and the executive all decided different lip because of 336 fifth nd 1789 in the congressional district in virginia. >> where did you do your research? libraries, museum, gives some examples. a lot of time in what's called the madison the manuscript madison.in james the arizona state university library has fantastic resources the library of congress, they let me check out that ind take home books being able to

check out and take home. he letters of the founding fathers themselves. i try to let them speak for possible.s when ever madison was meticulous. he cataloged every letter he wrote or received. monroe, not as much. but there was a lot there to get a sense of who james monroe was interacted with his compatriots. arizona state university was an resource. the library of congress. i tried to go to places like the ebron lutheran church just to see what it would have been like hen madison and monroe sat out there in the church service and debated the constitution in the snow for hours. spent a lot of time in virginia working on this book because i was working on an there.on it was wonderful to retrace the same steps and worked in the the same district in virginia, work in the footsteps of madison and monroe. two principal

plays i looked for in this research. question? >> why do you think this race is overlook? question.such a great i get it a lot. out to me.ely jumped f i have to make excuses for whoever ignored it. thank you for not writing about things youting about thought were more important. i think it's bookended by such events on either side of it. we go from the constitutional convention in philadelphia. he next thing you know, washington is taking the oath of office, and all is well. and one of the things i try to in this book is nothing inevitable. the things you do have consequences. public ons you take in life, the thing that is definitely within your power is to never give up. madison and monroe despaired. getting a red government to the united states. annapolis, barely anyone shows

up. ooks like the congress or the ratification conventions might not approve the constitution. it was desperate and close. give up.didn't and so that is such an important thing that we don't consider. looks so inevitable, the steady march of history from the era to independence to he most powerful empire the world had seen. nlike other governments, we established an orderly government, not an anarchy, tyranny, but orderly and free of monarchy. badly portant, it's overlooked by history. when i first started to read about this and not write about went to the can comprehensive three volume life whoadison written by reeves was a contemporary by madison, a little younger than him. will be a his firsthand account of 1789. our pages over three volumes for the most important

congressional election in history. we think of congressional trends, s as part of reactions to financial panic, to rebukes to the unpopular presidents. but the race between abraham lincoln andstein douglas. its's one race we do know and about. the places they debate are well arked, popular tourist attractions in illinois. anyone been to virginia? without go anywhere seeing one oh it was gray and black signs to denote someone there. who lived some famous battle that happened there. theavorite is the church of blind preacher in albemarle county. take their history so seriously. where never find a denote they battled each other. hopefully some day we can change that. able touestions, are we what parts of the

district supported one or the other candidate with the certain segments of society that one was more or less popular with? secondarily, what was any role if at all of thomas washington,d george two big virginians of the age? >> those are great questions to. great st -- that's a question. why did some people fall on the things, why ide of on the anti-federalist side of things? were eralize, federalists people engage in the mercantile trades and the benefit of having i go two urrency when miles north to maryland. i can see the pen fit of seeing judicial system when the deal goes sour in delaware. i can see the benefit of having national tradeth policies so the british stopped taxing my goods so i can open up market to my products. engaged who were not in interstate trade, some of those folks where they said, i don't know about this new government. it will invade my liberties.

i don't see any consequence to confederacy staying the way it is. neatly why e, that they fall on one place or the other. it's just the conclusions they drew. territory. a government unlike the world had seen. and they came to different it.clusions about james madison and james monroe century, from 17th early inhabitants of the virginia colony. upbringings, both well educated. they came to different conclusions even though the service almost mirrored each other. the virginia legislature, they served on something called the council of state. executive.ural columnists served on the council of state with the virginia. of they serve in the continental

congress. so they had almost exactly the same resume. to two totally different conclusions about this. that's true for a lot of their well.ry men as the second question -- >> jefferson and washington. in paris jefferson is as a minister to france during this time. receive the most post election analysis. thomas jefferson was a dear mutual friend. to madison and monroe as the twin pillars of my happiness. try to convince madison to move next to him in albemarle county. i've got monroe. if the three of us could live together, we'd hang out and and e from private life we'd be happy. reading books, talking about books, the big ideas of the day. pillars of his happiness. he was pleased to get a message our both of them saying friendship was never set aside no matter how passionate the debate was. running against my friend.

this is what happened. still friends. letters of irst congratulations that matteson receives is from george washington. nothing that washington had against monroe. washington was responsible for rankse monroe through the of the continental army. lived with that person at valley forge. i found a different book -- associated , a name with misery since the 18th century. it was. they lived through some of the of the war ng together. but because washington relied on council, is advice, madison is really the principal advisor to washington in at year of his st presidency. to some degree, that role shifts to alexander hamilton. but in the beginning, it's james madison.

congratulations on the majority the acceptance of your peer, inaugural write my address. he does. he sets the stage for the anti-federalists. madison to draft the response to washington. and madison writes this response that was ike, wow, such a good speech, i don't know even how to respond. says, i have to send a reply to congress. it. you help me write i offer that not just because it's humorous, but it attests to that james nding madison had among his colleagues in the congress and the president of the united states. wanted to be a part of george washington's inner circle. but only madison had the caliber, the trustworthiness, the intellect in washington's be the principal

advisor in the critical early days when washington is trying o figure out what is a president? what does a president do? >> was there a great deal of debate about what exactly would bill of rights or was it generally understood that it religion, you know, speech, etc.? >> such a great question. there was an enormous amount of debates over what a bill of looked like. many sent recommendations to congress, long lists of recommendations, we think you should pass these amendments in the first session. there were hundreds of different there.round but madison focused on a few things. one, nothing strufrl. some focused on weakening the executive. we weren't going to go to anything structural. focus on ing fundamental liberties. madison is trying to take the the sails of the

anti-federal movement. he's trying to calculate what measures are we going to have do that. look at the long traditions in english history that people had. the freedoms that people had as englishmen. ne of the great things to live under a pie rant, they had all be subjects of king george iii. idea.ave a good you had a mad tyrant governing over you, what are the things they could ry do if get away with it. they were trying to tax the olumnists in the aftermath of the french and indian war, smuggling went through the roof. to catch the smugglers, they we're going be able to send soldiers to your house, without warning, without notice, any sort of sanction from the judiciary. can go to your house and search for their heart's content. they knew what would happen if tyrant.a mad mad shjon selects from the fundamental libber the is with a and some of the

most grievous offenses that the in inflicted on columnists. the list more or less passes the way he introduces it. this.e don't know the bill of rights was 12 amendments. 11 passed. one pass in the 1990s. so you've got the first time, you've got the bill of rights. 1990s, finally enough states ratified an amendment that says the following -- cob wants to increase the pay, that's fine. ut the pay increase won't go into effect until there's been an election for the house of so esentatives in between, people couldn't vote themselves a lavish salary and retire, ou're not going to touch a nickel of the pay increase until the voters have had the say. student in the 1970s wrote a paper about this in the university of texas. out there, states could pass this. the teacher gave him the failing grade. this is the worst idea

ever, never underestimate the power of spite. preinternet days and wrote a letter to every inislature in america saying case you want to, you can still do this. its's a winning issue, an act of congress. why wouldn't you want to pass this? in 1990s, enough states ratify this. the 12th amendment, thank goodness we never passed this, guaranteed one representative for the house, one member of the house for citizens. 0 >> whoa. >> wait until there's 10,000 members of the house of representatives. monroe go on to do after winning the election? >> a happy ending for monroe. not at first. you may be able to sense some if you're a iments friend of mine. he didn't necessarily enjoy the law.tice of one point early on, he says i'm

so i can law degree run for office. i'm never going to practice. monroe is winning an indictment against a man for bay mare from his neighbor. he's writing letters to irritated clients about the case of litigation. some things never ever change. what happens is there's a death. monroe gets to fill the vacancy. monroe serves in first congress all.r monroe goes on to a fantastic career. -- he's an ambassador of defense. james madison is secretary of state for thomas jefferson. have a lit built of falling out who should secede jefferson as president. opponents to jefferson coalesce behind monroe go upossible candidate to against jefferson's chosen

successor, madison. monroe despite his cabinet. the two of them preside over the war of 1812 together. on to be the best of friends in retirement when their careers are over. they will serve in the end of heir lives in a state constitutional convention in virginia. those two and john marshall and all these young hot heads. fighting over representation in virginia. there are few slaves west of a certain line in virginia. so western virginia didn't have the representation that's tern virginia did. debate we had at the constitutional convention. madison and monroe tried everything. about one branch, maybe the -- be could be based on equal and in the house, we could slaves into ake account. they said this is the danger of bringing old men in to public life. these people grew up lionizing, they're so excited to have them there. monroe to chair

the convention. you're all wet, old men, you you're talkingat about. oth sides threatening to secede. they didn't appreciate the fact that the union had been perilous. madison and monroe knew what it like to live in a time that america could exist in one country. listen, the could old men had lessons to teach them yet. >> did madison remain in the federalist camp? his time with jefferson and monroe switch him to the republicans? lot of discussion. madison moved out of the orbit. passes the bill of rights, you really removed the thate of the -- the source divided the anti-federalists and the federalists. so now that the constitution -- of whether to keep the constitution is out of the way, they find new issues to about. so the new parties sort of

follow on different lines. a split in can see washington's cabinet between jefferson and hamilton. madison was firmly on jefferson's side of that split. no more questions. thank you, everybody. [ applause ] >> you're watching american istory tv, 48 hours of programming on american history every weekend on c-span 3. c-span s on twitter at history for information on our schedule, upcoming programs, and to keep up with the latest history news. . on american history tv, political science professor explains how or why nixon's victory in 1968 election came in a pivo