more about the events. it's an hour and 15 minutes. >> ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this historic site. the battle of lake champlain was important. cohn isinion, arthur the best person to explain why that is so. you know him from his career at the lake champlain maritime museum. i am most pleased he accepted an invitation to speak to us on the exact 200th anniversary of the battle. and to include the battles shipwreck legacy as part of the program. i understand that art will take a few audience questions after his presentation. let's welcome art. [applause] >> thank you. thank you.

good evening. i am delighted and really honored to be here to talk about the battle for life champlain in 1814. been thinking about for several years have i seen the bicentennial coming. i have not been a student of the war of 18 well my whole life. i -- of 1812 my whole life. i connected with the shipwrecks through lake champlain. over the last several years, we have been traveling with our our reach program in interpreting the war of 1812, knowing that in 1914, we were going to have an opportunity to talk about the things that happened here, which we think are really very important and very special. it's also important to acknowledge that september 11 is a powerful date in history. i spoke to my elderly mom today

in new york city, and she told me she was watching tv where they were reciting the names of all the folks who lost their lives back in. my brother, my cousin, my dad, all of those losses that hap pened. i feel for that. in fact, in the aftermath of 9/11, i was traumatized enough to join the fire department. it was my way of dealing with some of that. but it's also fair as we look on septemberck 11, to realize that there were a lot of people killed and wounded in that war whose lives were changed, obviously, whose families were changed. this is a book that was published relatively recently of the names of those who died. on the american side only and mostly in this theater. so, i think it is appropriate

and fair to have this discussion istory, to see what we can learn by it, to not so much celebrate war as commemorate the war. we like to say we commemorate the war, but celebrate the peace that came after it. so i will go through a rview.ical ove it is not detailed. but i'll certainly be willing to answer questions. i will look over to see if there are any things i can clear up. then i'm going to talk about the archaeological legacy, because where history happens, people leave their stuff behind. if there is something there long enough, it becomes archaeologically interesting. certainly in terms of this world event, it took place throughout the great lakes on lake champlain, the st. lawrence, and on waterways everywhere.

at the maritime museum, our emphasis is on the waterways. i do want to say before i forget to do it, that i stand here today a representative of a really large team of people. extraordinary people. divers, historians, archaeologists, mariners who have helped assemble this material. so i share this information with you on all of their behalfs. so, with that by way of introduction, i'm going to start by saying that to me it is all about the waterways. 200 years ago, the waterways were not just beautiful. they were not just interesting. they were not just commercially viable with great potential. they were strategically important. ships and navies moved in on the waterways.

that was true on the ocean and true on it in land environment. it pains to begin the discussion with the outbreak of the war of 1812. i love talking about benedict arnold. that will be for another day. today, it is all about the final war on lake champlain, at least from military point of view. the war of 1812. in the war of 1812, if you look at it, as i did as a student, the war of 1812 was not about lake champlain. it was not about even really north america. it was about europe and dominance in europe, and it was about napoleon and his expansion of protocol that the british found very threatening and felt they needed to stop. so great britain went to war with france and their allies. and the key from the british

point of view was there naval strength. they could control the waterways. they could blockade ports. keep the french off balance, and at a disadvantage so they can maintain that naval superiority. if you do that, you need big ships and men. so they were in a bond, in a constant effort to make those ships, capture ships, and to maintain a core to keep those ships going in blockade or offense or what have you. that led to a phenomenon known impressment. because the british were having trouble filling their ranks, they said, you know what? we have the national right, even if their neutral, to stop a ship at sea. we can search their guys, line

them up. we can look for people who we think are british. we can take them off that ship, put them onto our ship and make them work for us and definitely. no phone calls. won't be home for dinner tonight, honey. they're gone. this happened thousands of times. and the united states recently an independent country, only 30 years earlier, having fought the british said, hey, wait a second. we are a real sovereign power. our ship.not stop this became the underlying cause -- national honor, sailors writes, free trade. those are the origins of the war of 1812. the war of 1812 was a badly conceived war, as many of them are.

the united states had no business declaring war on june 18, 18 12. they were not ready. they did not have an army. they did not have a navy or military leaders. they had a lot of expectations. thomas jefferson said it would be a matter of merely marching into canada. and it will be ours,. and he was proven very wrong about that very early on. so in 1812. remember now, the war is about the waterways. the war is going to break out all along the great lakes, st. lawrence and lake champlain. control of those waterways is going to be a big part of the game. and so early on, the americans have huge setbacks at detroit. they surrender an army without a fight. in the niagara peninsula, they get defeated by a smaller

british force. they are having setbacks all along the border. really surprised by that. the army is really just trying to get its feet under itself. command and control generals a lot of elderly guys who had been to war in the revolution. not for the last 30-odd years. so these guys are pulled o ut of given commission, put in charge, and it is not going to go well for the americans on land and on the water in 1812, except, when you get to lake champlain. lake champlain is a little smaller, over here. nobody is really looking at it closely. the british are to the north of it. we have got a bunch of gunboats

on the lake already. and by the middle of first year of the war, the navy says, you know, we probably ought to have a little more presence on that lake. we are going to send a navy person. they choose out of their ranks a guy, a 29 year old lieutenant, thomas donna. -- thomas mcdonough. mcdonough goes, whoa. i have got a gun boat that is have sunk. i have a couple of guys who will be here. they are just starting to build fortifications in burlington. we have to get some order here. he buys and commandeers a bunch of commercial sloops. to convert them into military craft that can carry canon. he begins to give some semblance of order to the naval establishment supporting the army, but also being very conscious of wanting to be able to control the lake. we are going to keep the british up in candada.

we are going to have enough presence. we're going to have an ear to what is going on over there. we're going to try to stop the rampant smuggling that the verm onters and new yorkers are doing to supply the british. it turns out that all of the trade prior to the war was going to canada. the declaration of war did not change that. it turns out that 1812 had one americanot from the point of view, and that was that we are having unexpected, really surprising -- theft on the high seas. frigades. the constitution and boston is the best example. going in to ship to ship action with comparable british frigates. said,d -- would have

forget it. americans do not have a chance. this is the royal navy. we kept coming out on top. it was very much surprising to the british. demoralizing to them. and helpe d the american morale bounce back a little bit from the setbacks they were having everywhere else. so 1812 ends, and it is like, what have we done? we have gone to war. we are not ready. we have got to do something about that. now we realize that the lake, thieese strategic waterways are going to be so important. we had better start to think about how we're going to fortify both with land positions and naval forces, those lakes to keep control or gain control. so there is a whole effort now lake ontario -- that is where the american naval establishment is headquartered. they bring up a senior navy captain to direct that.

he brings up a new york city mastership right. to be his guide. his gui to figure out everythingde as it relates to building warships. he's brilliant, creative, hard worker. and so, as 1813 unfolds, he's building warships larger than they have ever seen on the waters on lake ontario. he is smart enough to bring up new york city shipwright, adam and noah brown. maybe the mostwo most talented guys on the planet at the time. he says, i have to have you guys

go up to lake yeary. in the middle of nowhere. there are no supplies, no roads. you can grab a bunch of the best technicians you find, caulkers, blacksmiths, and you can make your way up to erie and start building ships. turned out to be a guy named ferry who was assigned by the navy also just barely 30 to do that. out goes noah brown with a bunch of guys. 8 days later he is there in the middle of winter. like nothing here. what am i going to do? i need to build all those boats. where are the barracks, the block houses? there's nothing. he has to build it all. he does. he starts building it. while he's building all of those

fortifications and finding only iron, burning ships to get iron. the only thing he has got is trees. this is the middle of the woods. everything else has to be brought in. the guns, the iron. the caulking. the ropes for the rigging. the ropes for the anchors. and noah brown with his brother adam in new york superintendent a lot of the shipping of stuff. he starts building a fleet of schooners, gunboats, and two big war brigs. 20 gun brigs. to try to counterbalance what he knows the british are building on the other side of lake erie. the sides meet in battle on september 10, 1813. and again, the odds makers might

not have called this very favorable for the americans based on the number of, the rience and so on. yet oliver perry is given huge credit for having his first flag ship, the brigg lawrence shot out from under him. then in a small boat, rowing across to his undamaged ship niagara, and carrying on the fight and winning the day. at the end of this battle, lake erie is an american lake. it is very important, very strategic. i will call it important. with control of the lake, the americans start to go, ok, we have got lake eirrie. let's move on the "newsmakers--

on the british. there are tens of thousands of guys fighting napoleon. only the guys that were here when the war broke out. they are playing a shell game, moving troops, using their militia. using natives. they made alliances with the native people and using them very well. so now, the british realize we lost our fleet on lake erie. we are going to have to pull back. well, the native allies did not want to do that. big argument goes on. the british prevailed. they pull back along the northern edge of lake erie trying to concentrate their forces on lake ontario. generalhenry harrison, thene of the forces in

northwest, realizes the vulnerability of these guys as they retreat. they are all motivated from lots of bad outcomes from the previous year. so they give chase. they find them in the thames valley in ontario. in that battle, that british army is defeated. perhaps more significantly, in that battle, tecumseh, the single most important war chief to the natives, the sinlgle most important leader and olitician -- he was advocating for unit five native confederacy. we work together and maybe we can have a homeland. he was killed in that battle. bounceive affairs never back from that, in my opinion. now with the americans thinking they have got themselves on a little bit of a roll, they got

confidence. they have two big armies. harbor, one on lake champlain. they are being lead by the wrong guy. they are being lead by the guys from the previous war who do not like or trust each other. so they drag these two armies. andng these armies together take montréal. if they do that, the war is going to end. .t is a great strategy on paper they implement it in the most in ept way. they snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory. it's a terrible thing to read about for the guys. the guys who are paying the price for their blunders and their lack of foresight and lack of cooperation with each other.

so the armies that are coming along the st. lawrence is defeated at chrysler's farm. the army coming up from lack champlain and coming up meets a small but determined and very well-led canadian group. by a colonel. they defeat this much larger army. it is an embarrassment as well as the military setback. 1813, as i read the history, ends in a terrible way with the americans deciding, we are going to leave the niagara peninsula, but before we do, why don't we burn a town? it's winter. there are only women and children here. why don't we burn the town, so

the fighters that might come will have no place to stay? idea, stupid, inhuman and it is paid back in kind by the british in several places, including the burning of buffalo on new year's eve as the year is changing. so now, the war has been on for two years, and we are about to enter 2014. in the winter of 2014, my the history says the most important variable that happened was that napoleon was defeated on the field. you think about that. they had been fighting for over a decade. tens of thousands of troops fighting there. and napoleon is now defeated. britain is still having some kind of a war with us. so they needed all their assets

to fight napoleon. now somebody says, with napoleon handled, we can apply a bit of asset management to taking care of the war in north america. so let's start collecting armies, put them on convoys. send them over to north america. that will surprise those upstart americans. that is what they do. they actually send three large armies. orleans, one on the coast, and one that ends up in the st. lawrence. where do they go? we do not know yet. you are an american military planner, all, -- oh, my gosh. how do i deal with that? where do i move my ports?

how do i checkmate this new variable? playing the game on the british side is governor general of canada. he has been fighting this war from the very beginning. he's been doing it really with just a few thousand regular troops. a few thousand militia. veral thousand native fighters. he's been moving from place to place like a shell game. he's actually kind of holding his own. it's kind of amazing thing. now he gets -- told by his leaders in england, we are going to send you all these guys. these guys have been fighting in europe the last 10 years. they are the toughest guys on the planet, and they are ready to fight.

we are going to send them over there. you're going to get 10,000 here, 10,000 here, and 10,000 here. you figure on how you want to deal with them. he goes, what happened? so one of the things they do -- you know about this, right? they burned washington. that was payback. that strategically didn't have a thing to do with the outcome of the war. then they went and they laid siege to baltimore. to our credit, we held them off, and they had to withdraw from there. that was a real american victory. we have got a great song out of it. but as it turns out, and the the real my talk, is actions are going to happen up

here. i'm not making that up. what happens is 10,000 plus reinforcements come into the st. lawrence and drop in our community, north of our community. he's going, ok, i have got to pick a place to use these guys. where my going to invade? at sack's harbor? through oswego? an end run out west? he decides that his best shot at moving his military lines forward and helping to end the war in their favor is to invade through lake champlain. and that becomes a strategy. he sends some guys west to create a feint that we take and go, they are going out to second harbor. -- to sackett's harbor. to his great credit, ough, hast mcdon

gotten very mature and those couple of years. gotten married. he realizes from his elligence, if i'm going to cross the border, that the british are gearing up to build gunboats. and they are building a large brig to carry somewhere around bigger thant is anything else even close on the lake. he knows he's outclassed. he writes to the secretary of the navy at fort smith. i got to have some warships. and the secretary of the navy agrees. you can't lose control of the lake. you must keep control of the lake. it is decisive to the outcome of the war. i'm going to send you some shipwrights. he sends him the best guys he can send. he commissioned adam and noah

brown, the same guys who built perry's fleet to come up to lake champlain and build what he tells you to build. they outlined that it would be a ship, 100 gunboats to counteract their brig. noah brown comes up with carpenters. militiawith farmers and works.vest -- and an iron vermont establishes a shipyard. this is a wonderful contemporary image of that. the only place i've ever seen a shipyard annotated. we still don't know exactly where that was. or exactly what it looks like. till commissioned a marine artist. he's using every original source we can find. to try to give us a picture of

what it might have looked like. this is his extraordinary, extraordinary painting. i think the bulk of the shipyard was where the -- the job corps is now. behind those historic buildings. there was also a steamboat already in construction when mcdonough moved his headquarters there. that was to be the second steamboat on lake champlain. mcdonough and noah brown decided to take that hull over and finish it as a war schooner. they laid the keel for the big ship, the flagship, the saratoga. a gunboat. they launch them in ridiculously short amount of time. it's building these big ships in such a compressed amount of time. i want to stop for one second and read for you a quote from

noah brown. this says it all to me. when he is said, talking about what he's going to build. i have to admit this was the year before what he is building for perry. the same truism for what he is building for mcdonough. "plain work is all that is wanted. the ships are only needed for one battle. if we win, that is all that is wanted of them. if we lose, it will be good enough to be captured. they are not fancy. .hey are not finish off well

and the british decide let's do a preemptive strike. as soon as the lake is open we will bring our ships down now lennet weve the brig can go down with the gunboats we can get in otter creek we can burn them where they are. if we can't get in we will bring ships to the mouth and sink them get out.an't that was just a total failure. the was what they call aactivities and fort casaan in may. casaan who is going to go on to command the ticonderoga has seven cannons work at then earth end of otter creek. casaan innope as fort his honor and between his

gunboats thate can't land.they they say not only were we kept back by the heavy fire. behind every tree was a onthat than. complimentary word for an american militia guy. ugh gets to bring the fleet out. sails north to champlain at northern end of the lake to say to the british look at me. want, but ifif you you come down i'm going to make you pay for it. he has got naval superiority. british keep the

naval force block kadeed in the richelieu river. he hears that the british are building another supe supership where their navy base is. they laid the keel for the biggest ship of them all. a 37-gun frigate that changes power.ire balance of if they put that on the lake all sudden macdonough's large ship and his schooner is overpowered. writes to the secretary of any i have and says william guy up in lake champlain. authorized me to build the

fleet. andfeeling good about life then i hear about the super ship. i have to have another ship. of navy says no, i don't think so. you know, we have already spent money, the government is bankrupt, we just can't do it. can't you just make to? exaggerating ae little bit and he goes whoa, lose itou are going to all. the balance of power is gone. if these guys come out with this i can't answer for the consequences. he for the only time that was secretary of of the navy, overruled by gets president madison. this debatere of says hey, we got so much on the line on lake champlain and macdonough seems like he knows when is talking about, give him

the ship. they immediately say okay, okay, going to do that. so they send a communique to the now back inrs, new york building more ships for hey,people, and they say big time emergency. ship being built in the richelieu river. brig of 20 guns and needs it like yesterday. theday after he gets adam brown, noah's brother is physically on his way with 200 of the best ship carpenters in the world. they get there, they re-establish the shipyard, they what is available and they know what else they need and a 20-gunthe keel for launched 19 days

later. brig joins macdonough's fleet five days before the battle. i'm not making that up. so, what is happening with the army? that is another story. you have to realize the battle champlain which most people look at as a naval battle macdonough's victory is a any battle.le and water land battle and water battle. been on thehas ground training, building a con tonements, gun emplacements all summer. is a confident guy. he is the new general. they have had enough of the old general. he is the new general. he has some skills. he is some experience and ready to do his duty. gets a message from washingtonmmand in

saying hey, listen, the invasion in the west.ome we need you to quickly gather guys, he has 5,000 regulars under his command, you need to your guys and you need to you -- as as fest as fast as you can go. meanwhile, izzard is looking across the border listening to the drumbeats and there are just thousands of guys on the other line.f the these hardened guys just brought over from europe, a bunch of heatione stationed and says listen, i think you got a wrong. it is a wrong time to send me the champlain valley and west and they write back and say what to do, weus

are the high command. west and weyou out want you out west with no delay. reluctantly he leaves. end of august 1814. are herear troops that leave. now, they did leave 15 regulars leave behindo you when you are going to war? and leave 1,500 guys behind those guys are going to be under macombmand of alexander who had been the second in command of the army and now he supremeto be the commander. he is awesome. he is a leader. a westpoint graduate in the first-class. engineer. he is a leader of people. the rightright guy at time, as history now tells us.

these 1,500 guys left militia.d 800 new york and he is looking across the going i now ams overg like 10,000 troops there. this is really potentially going badly for me if i don't figure something out. so he by fortifying his positions on the south side of river in plattsburgh. the british are there. border.ssed the 60 miles awayis theunaware and off come british across the border in

force ready to have this invasion. coordinatedto be a invasion of land and naval forces. is all george prevost's design. is pressing his naval commanders to get their butts in gear. that big new super ship, get it done. the season is getting late. these guys on their heels. there is only a few thousand of them there. let's go. to attack until you guys come here and dust off navy guysy american because how tough can they be? all preconceived in to mind what is supposed happen. and then the day arrives. it is september 11, 1814. 200 years ago today, when the british navy to some extent

bullied into coming down a they wantedr than to, they are still working on super ship which now i will name for you. the confiance. 37 guns. biggest warship on the lake and the carpenters are still working on it as they round cumberland head. this is where the carpenters are in boats.ly ashore the boat is arguably from my view of history, it is not ready. only been on has board for perhaps two weeks. cohesive fighting force yet. i'm giving you the excuses because it is not going to do very well in the outcome. they come around to face preselectedho was his line of battle. he has lined up his stress st. vessels atanchor in a particulao

have to sail by them and then he has a strategy. that is exactly what happens. wind that was supposed to downey's fleet past macdonough to round his bows never happened. wind conspired. these are all wind driven vessels to hold them in broadside to broadside action. hours.ght for two naval battles of that time horrificsomee most manies of the terrible -- examples of the terrible things another in the war maybe with the exception of in -- bass or something poison gas or something in modern time. horrific slaughter of human beings and the destruction of happensand that is what for two hours.

broadside to broadside hammering can loadast as they their guns. guns are getting disabled that is what happens. getting killed, wounded, brought below, thrown over the side. in doubt what is going to be the outcome of this engagement until macdonough uses preselectede has which is to put out his anchors lines in such a way that if he determined he needed it because the broadside facing his enemy got disabled enough that he would now if he started with 10 guns and now two fightinger and only with one or two, that is a disadvantage. boats around so undamagedresh broadside is now facing the to pour on abegins

terribly destructive fire to them. realizing what is happening attempt to do the same thing. but they can't because they manyt set up for it, and of their anchors were shot off before that maneuver. so they actually instead of being turned all the way around halfway around which is the worst thing that can happen. bear and guns don't the american guns are ranging the full-length of their ship and destroying all kinds of people. minutes after that hits, the confiance colors, surrenders. the americans are still firing now at their next largest lennet.the british brig

macdonough is in the middle of the action. gets knocked down twice. severed head of one of his men and knocked uponscious and comes back and begins the fight again. these are stories documented unfortunately, all too true. lenet surrenders and strikes its colors. engagement that the is waning. what is happening on land? the, on land, macomb has 1,500 left behind regulars, militia and is to put out an urgent call the governor of vermont to say militia, this is what is happening, i need them yesterday. would love governor says i to help you but i'm not

constitutionally allowed to send militia out of the sit of vermont. i meal your pain but i will tell my militia guys if they want to go as volunteers that is fine with me. and so in towns up and down the state of vermont they are reading proclamations, beating to quarters, organizing and they are going and he asks a guy from virgennes, samuel strong, if he mind, could he maybe be the general in charge of the volunteers going over and, of course, he agrees. and so now you have on the day battle 2,500 vermont volunteers that have made it saranac to join with the regulars and the new yorkers form a defensive line that the british advance. the british advance on land gets

to find aer, tries place to cross, the americans, of course, had disabled all of so they find the ford and they actually cross the militiail the reenforced by vermonters rallies advances and pushes them back. new yorkers, vermonters working together to accomplish something great. when the smoke clears and the firing stops, everybody is aware that there is two things going on here and prevost witting for the smoke to -- waiting for the smoke to clear so he can see that his has been victorious to double his effort. when the smoke clears and it is boats have surs surrun deroned they are demorald traumatized.

those proud veteran guy from and theyn't believe it turn around and they leave and they almost immediately loave on the road they came to back to canada, leaving supplies, leaving wounded to the mercy of americans. border.ss the the invasion of the united over. is word of this gets to the europeting table in gent the intensity of the defeat of the british, the victory oflue of the the americans allows the to bring this war to a close. and that was a great thing. waset me tell you how it presented by a particular

historian who i will name when done. this is from a british point of view. september, under george prevost, they moved on plattsburgh and prepared to dispute the command of lake champlain. a mere 1,500ced by american regulars supported by a militia, all depended on the engagement of british and american flotillas. at lake erie, the americans built better ships for freshwater fighting. and they gained the victory, rippled the british advance and was the most decisive engagement of the war. winston churchill. the army that was

did notng new orleans hear about the peace negotiations or the fact that was signed on christmas eve 1814. excuse me,y 8 -- january 8, 1815 at the battle of new orleans you had more casualties in one engagement than any other battle of the war. was just an insult to injury to a war that should have never fought. the word of peace did not get either and sokes on lake ontario where they had shiphaving this massive building contest the british in atgston, the americans sackett's harbor, they said let's just trump what the goingh are doing we are to build two first-rate ships of line. triple deckers.

120 heavy guns. going to build them and we are going to take this and show those guys once and for all and they got half done sand then they heard about peace. and who are the guys building that on lake ontario? adam and noah brown with 1,500 guys they assembled around them to make this happen. in fact, noah brown said in a memoir if i had would have had six more weeks i could have both those vessels and showed those guys something. on lake champlain the victorious american vessels and captured british prizes get brought down to whitehall as to protect them from a raid that was still imminent and worried about because peace was not known for months later. the float gets mothballed

whitehall. in the aftermath of the war as peace is declared the united and great britain are still sparring with each other thinking that this peace is more of a to us and truce andthey will be at war ag. one of the thing that interestingly emerges from the close of the war of of 1812 is the building of american and canals as homeland in part security projects. we go and when we go to war again with the british we in a much our lakes more efficient manner not like to do this year sending heavy cannon over mud where all that trouble. of 1812s after the war was over, people decided hey, war. revisit that let's commemorate it and or

on lake erieand where the battle of lake erie so profound in public memory they went and found the remnants secondbrig niagara, the flagship and they raised it and it allfloating and towed around lake erie as an icon of celebration. whate going to celebrate happened here by raising this ship and today that ship still sails on the great lakes. a very small percentage of the original wood, considered the brig niagara. not to bee champlain, outdone, in 1914 at the greatnial of macdonough's feat and the shipyard is going to celebrate. is going to be marching

every kindloats and of thing and if lake erie can warship so can we. ours is a little smaller and is towed down the street. this is a mockup of macdonough's saratoga.he also as a legacy of the war of 1812 and the war fleet you there was a steam boat hull that was converted and schooner tiehe war schooner carried men into battle. had a dozen wounded. of1958 the community whitehall wanted to celebrate bicentennial history. how do you do that? shipwreck management advocate. back then people weren't talking like that. get were just trying to lows tclose to their history.

whitehall they knew there were sunken ships from where the of 1812 fleet stuff got kind of parked out of the channel. why don't we get one of them and and be close to our history and we can celebrate it and they did it for all of the right reasons but it was a terrible outcome because they in thirds and it out ofit to get the bottom to break the suction on exhibit not knowing that a sub merged object that has been under water for that length of time now in the is going to suffer. today i wasboat with it yesterday. through whitehall on our sailing journey yesterday. this boat and examined it and this boat is not doing well. boat which fought in

macdonough's fleet, is suffering exposure to air, moisture, and the general condition. a good outcome for a shipwreck. those vesselst of from the american and british i wasin the early 1980's part of a team that went down to southern lake champlain and using historical sources and went andormation we looked on the bottom in a zero seebility environment to what of those original vessels might still be there. to tell you we found three of the warships merged on the bottom of lake champlain. one at low water exposed itself. this is the british brig the the battle nowat lying in shallow water in the end of lake champlain.

part of it was cut off in the recovered and unfortunately has rotted. but the material that is still in and under the water is in relatively good shape. a 75-foot long byboat, one of the six built noah brown. boat.ize was this we didn't know what it was when we found it and this is what it get youke, if i can oriented. tos boat has fallen over on its portside in the channel of the river. in therefore the portside is probably 15 feet of water, not subject to ice, not out of the water where people were coming along and cutting pieces off for firewood. but a complete half of a vessel. vessel for twos years in the water with a team

divers, hundreds of hours, meticulously measuring, wood samples trying to analyze when we had and we now vessel is the united states brig eagle. the last warship built, the one carried 20 days that heavy cannon in battle built by brown and his men supported by the community. look like.t it would this is a wonderful example of the archaeological drafting of the kevin christman who is one principal investigators in the project. and this boat is still on the champlain.ake an interesting project more about shipwreck management, outcomes.icy and

1996, two divers were swimming on the bottom of plattsburgh bay looking for stuff. remember, where history happens, people leave their stuff. the stuff is there long enough it is archaeologically interesting. were out where they thought battlefield might have been looking for stuff and hen they anchor.ss an they told someone who had a barge and a crane and he them.red that for that proved to be a bad outcome. here is the anchor which has on it,g wooden stock sitting in front of this establishment drying out in the sun. fortunately they called us up and asked us what they might do because they were a little concerned about maybe getting into some difficulty with the

we sent someo archaeologists over and looked at this thing and said, you a reallys is like important object. probably is one of the anchors that came off the british flagship confiance thereby notattle, being able to be deployed, thereby maybe leading to the loss of them at this battle. this is really important. some really got interesting and important surfaces on it. to put thenced them anchor back in the water until a recovery plan management plan exhibit plan funding plan all good stuff could get put in ofce and agreed to by all the people involved. and at the end, so think about divers who are

signing off, the city of plattsburgh signing off, the clinton county museum signing off, new york state that is is the unitedt off, when asigning surrenders and strikes its colors it becomes a prize of surrenders to. became an american boat immediately upon surrender. went to thehor bottom presumably before the striking of colors and went to property. as british so we asked the british to participate in the signing off they did.ject which gotso this anchor rerecoverred and brought to the maritime museum. thisof you may have seen there when it was undergoing

conservation. it is not just an anchor, it as document. the end of the anchor you see the british broad arrow which is military stamp, the date of manufacturer and the englanduring foundry in that produced it. of most remarkably on one the flukes you could still see paint in script the word "quebec" which we think is shipping label and has never been seen before. bethis really turned out to a very important anchor. we did the conservation as per years.eement for two we brought it back to installed it in city hall. we built an exhibit around it see this public can anchor any day that the city open.s this anchor is communicating its history in the place the history was made. a good outcome.

recognize youu i are friends of the maritime museum and know what we do there. we preserve and share the history and archaeology of the mission.his is our so we as attempt to look for creative ways to do that, some of you know we took a boat that we had found underwater, two wrecks actually in burlington harbor and we built an exact clone. now we use that clone called carry, notclure to cargo, but history to communities all over the region. so in the last three years we have made our focus the war of 1812. and so the first year commemorating the war and celebrating the peace we traveled to all those places in the u.s. and canada to begin to tell this story. and in the second year we the story to all of

these places in the u.s. and talking about the battle of lake erie and the events of 1813. and then this year aim very happy to say we have been -- i'm happy to say we have been able to continue this process by bringing the final year the battle for lake champlain to communities around the region. we have just come back from new york city where we have of the newd the role york city shipwrights who same champlain, lake erie and lake ontario and built the fleets that rolely made the difference. -- that really made the difference. we are calling them the unsung of 1812 and wer are about to head off, heading plattsburgh and then rouse's point and lower quebec we are bring the story to the canadian canals to tell of the shared history

ha we all hold together now. i'm also very pleased and proud to tell you that a lot of that i haveogy mentioned on lake champlain and the archaeology of the warships of the other great lakes has bookbeen released in a new edited by kevin christman out of and it is a landmark in the studty of these extraordinary objects and helps share them and preserve them for generations. so i think i am done. i have no idea how long i went. will be ablend we to do some questions and try to do it accommodate these guys so have a question please raise your hand. we will get the mike over to you will do my best to

answer them. thank you so much. [applause] >> yes, sir? >> hang on. hang on. thank you. on.ang there you go. >> where did the iron ore come to create these armaments? >> the ironworks provided all of fastenings which if you think about it that is like a big teal. brown would have traded one of erie before toe have access to that kind of custom i need this, this and this. a thousand them. you know, and so they were fastenings were ironced by the monktown works.

the round shot was produced by monktown iron works. the cannons had to be sent in from new york city and the hudson river. ironron for the monktown works not surprisingly, from monktown, bog iron, surface mined. when that was deemed to be not adequate they then went to the chiever down in port henry and started bringing iron from there the lakes from across which i think was on the split laterountain range that became an actual mine. ore tothey brought that virgennes. they had all of the things they and that is where the manufactured.

who else? don't let me off the hook this guys. yes? >> i can imagine hearing about the way you bring the materials from so many different disciplines and breathe life into it. i have never seen anything quite like that before, and the are sometimes very difficult for people to understand of the arrangement of boats and how he engineered that theyhem up so up with the wind determining how they were oriented but with the right angles, that was really the key it, wasn't it? >> it was. this is interesting because or reread thisad

material i see something else. embarrassede hand to say that i have just made this really interesting havection that i should years years ago but -- made 0 0 ago. macdonough gets a lot of credit for the way he arranged his plattsburgh bay. macdonough had great difficulty in getting the personnel for his fleet, especially after he decided to build the new brig. was short of men, people didn't want to come up here. considered great service. not a lot of opportunity for prizes. so he was constantly kind of begging for naval personnel and meantime was going to the army and borrowing, you know, folks to fill out his ranks. just so the eagle it

happens that remember, they got there five days before the battle. they were still undermanned. one of the lieutenants went to what if i --said they said i'm not giving you anymore men. got, what about all those prisoners? could we take some of those? take all ofcan can those guys you want. so 40 prisoners were recruited eagle.rvice on the thatne of the army guys joined macdonough's effort was a guy who had not only naval experience, he had naval experience on lake champlain. he was a mariner on lake champlain. and when macdonough got to, you know, talk to this guy and see his he knew and see what background was, he made him his pilot. and as his pilot in one of the himunts i read, they give

credit along with macdonough for which way thewing wind was likely to blow and where to position the boats to best advantage. he participated in that. acting sailing master. of lakehe battle champlain, in the naval battle, he was severely wounded and died days later. and he was from farrisburg, vermont. so i really want to acknowledge him. s jr.oseph baren i intend to learn more about him. of namesad long lists or focus on the loss of a single person. is whys is real and it we really need to understand why we go to war and how we can do a it.less of yes, questions? right here? thank you for asking your questions.

i appreciate it. >> wouldn't you say that macdonough's strategy was very benedict arnold's strategy at balcor island? >> no. >> what is the difference. >> benedict arnold gets huge anchoring his fleet behind the island because he that the british was going to sail around and go too far and they would have to beat up wind and i absolutely don't think that was the case. i don't think he had that thought. he went behind valcor island to escape the fall wind. he did not expect the british to come down. he did not expect them to be ready. would sit it out there in a protected place where he could go north or south that big point and be protected with his 15 boats able tomotors and be just survive while he waited for the season to end. to gates the day before

the battle, i don't think the british are coming. i can't wait to come back to ticonderoga and have a beer to you. not what he said, but words to that effect. historians have given him credit for something that circumstancestical in my opinion. >> is there any truth to the luckyabout macdonough's tiller ofing out the the confiance early in the battle? i read something to this effect, but i could be -- >> well, there is a couple of shots that are presented readings.torical one of them apparently is true the saratoga they had gamecocks. they used to do cock fighting.

first -- and the the first broadside that the of thece let loose gamecocksne of the but thets blasted apart bird is okay. the guys look at that and go going toan omen we are do really well today. there is actually a whole legend has flowed from that to this present day. ill is a thing i just got, don't claim to know what this is all about, but the descendant of the rooster supposedly still lives and is still treated reverence in some place. so that is just something to look into. that was probably it was lucky on one hand, you tragicay, but absolutely on the other, was the shot that downie. captain

george downie was the commander was the commodore of the british fleet. he was assigned to that duty just two weeks. he was on lake ontario and they guy we need a more senior than the people throughout. we will send him, an experienced credentials.s the he comes out so where am i now, champlain? what is that all about? has to learn the physical layout. has to learn his enemy. to learn his officers and men and he has this ship that is not ready for battle. he tells prevost look, you know, iwant to help, i want to go, really do want to fight, but you know, this is going to take me least two weeks to get -- and prevost says no man, come on, we you.aiting for everybody is just waiting on you. and so there was a lot of guy to come on this

down and engage before he was ready. in the engagement he is fighting behind a large cannon on the confiance and that hit in the muzzle and the fun is dislodged and -- dislodged and comes back on top of him and kills him. and he is gone and so now the fighting a battle with, you know, the next levels notuys in a boat that has trained together. you know, so it is sort of easy fortunes of war, you know, go from side to side. know,s case, you macdonough had more -- a lot more time to prepare, a lot more guys.o drill his i moan he did all of -- i mean did he all of the right things, was unfair.ke he in hindsight you can see how the defeat.vy met their yes? >> why did you need the spring anchorline?

>> the spring line is a line that they attach to an anchor so you have an anchor line that attaches to the boat but the springline is attached to the the anchor and brought, say, from the bow anchor to the stern and there is another one going the other way so you can pulling on theby springs. of can change the direction your boat. and without going under sail you maneuver this very large andt with enough men windlessness to turn the boat that is what macdonough did. withoutan you use it the spring? >> when i talk about a spring i'm talking about a heavy rope. an anchor line. >> oh, i'm sorry. you thought a literal spring. no, they called it a spring line comes back in that direction, not to the -- not as an anchor position. you.l show

i have been traveling for the last two months. was a little uncertain of how soight present here tonight thank you, for that nice thought. springlines all the time to keep our boats fromming if where we don't want them to to move them in places we do. not a material. yes? >> how large in number of vessels was the navy on lake champlain? tom gun boats to briggs frigates? are statistics. i know that in the end a lot of what they do is add up numbers of guns and weight of metal. metal could each side fire if it fired all of its guns at once. that is one of the ways they

calculate advantage. and really to my mind, the sides a little bit about even. i would actually have almost then the advantage to british because they had more long heavy guns that fired a long distance. the americans had a lot of heavy guns that fired a shorter a shotgun.ke powerful but got to get close to me. british had stood back, many naval historians feel if the british had used that in theye and not come mitt havmight have well been abo found macdonough to pieces where he sat and that is an interesting, you know, way to look at the possibilities. was about's ship 160 feet long. 750-tons. wasbritish ship confiance about the same length, wider and displacementton

vessel. on lake champlain those are like of the bigger steam boats that were on lake champlain. ontario, built on lake lake erie had about similar sized large vessels. ontario they went nuts because they really felt, you if they are building a a-gun ship, we have to build 40-gun ship. well, if they are building a and they were aloued to continue this right up to the end of the war to where buildings were first-rate ships of the line cannons.over 100 i mean it was -- it was ridiculous. these were the biggest ships appeared onave ever the seas let alone the inland seas. so those -- that fleet never in decisive action. in fact, historians think -- you much rested on the

outcome of that this each side reluctant to risk that sureture until they were they had some edge. so it never happened. yes? >> [inaudible] >> thank you. is a whole pretty standard freshwateror a object like that. tanic acid on the metal parts. you might also notice the metal in very different condition if it was above the mudline oxy dation and apectation corrosion.unt of

when you saw the writing that looked like it was perfect, it was perfect. stuff that was beneath the mudline never aged. that is why the written piece of "quebec" was still there. the stuff above the mudline was but still inaded freshwater not badly. and then, of course, the wooden got treated completely differently. we had to take it off and treat polyethylene glycol and we monitor it on a regular basis to see how it is doing and i'm happy to say after 10 years it is doing very well and if you go too see it, you can plattsburgh tomorrow or over the weekend. a big weekend in plattsburgh and you can see the anchor in city hall and imagine back to the moments on this day where these and really weght can't forget to remember that andreds of men died

hundreds of minutes lives were changed by the wounds and traumas thational we now know you receive in that kind of engagement. thank you so much. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute] >> you are watching american tv.ory all weekend every weekend on c-span 3. to join the conversation like us on facebook at c-span history. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] year, c-span is touring cities across the country exploring american history. next a look at our recent visit to boulder, colorado. you are watching american all weekend, every weekend on c-span3.

♪ >> we are always asked what is a chautauqua. a chautauqua is a retreat beautiful place for enrichment, enlightenment, entertainment and coming together. and it started in far western on lake chautauqua, a movement grew out of that place and that time and really spread across the country coming to boulder in 1898. interestingly, the texas board of higher education came to colorado looking for a place to metablish a