debates for the control of congress. > 40 years ago, president ford made an historic appearance before the house subcommittee on criminal justice to explain why he pardoned former president nixon. nixon resigned in august to avoid impeachment on charges stemming from the watergate scandal. we will show president ford's testimony and remarks upon receiving the 2001 profiles in courage award from the kennedy presidential library agonizing his political courage in granting the pardon. first, a brief conversation about ford's congressional testimony with presidential historian richard norton smith. >> thank you for being with us on american history tv.

we are going to see gerald ford's speech to the house judiciary committee. how many other president have -- presidents have testified before congress? >> that is a little bit vague. there is a tradition that abraham lincoln appeared informally for a congressional committee early in 1862 following the apparent theft of a presidential message, which many had associated with mrs. lincoln. the story in the "herald tribune" to that effect. woodrow wilson invited the foreign committee to the white house for informal testimony on the proposed league of nations and treaty of versailles. but that is it.

>> president ford pardoned richard nixon september 8, 1974. he was ousted by the subcommittee to testify? >> it was interesting. let it be said, the reaction of the party was much harsher and more negative than i think he anticipated. all sorts of questions were raised. not just from the usual political adversaries regarding possible motives behind this, and in the ensuing uproar, he decided that it would make perfect sense for him to break with tradition and in fact become the first president since lincoln to testify before a congressional committee.

this is with 25 years on capitol hill paying dividends. he was comfortable going into the lion's den. i think the record will show the committee treated him less harshly than they might have someone whom they had not known and worked with for 25 years. committee,iciary comfortable grounds for president ford. as you said, 25 years on the hill. of strongere lots nixon critics. that was the committee that was preparing to rake nelson rockefeller over the coals as the vice presidential nominee. that was the committee that asked tough questions during gerald ford's confirmation hearing. it was no pushover. >> you mentioned the president saw the reaction to the pardon and proposed it to the

committee. what is he seeing in terms of the mood of the country and reaction to the pardon? >> this man had already made history in many ways and made ways.y in more unwelcome his gallup poll rating fell more dramatically overnight than any other president in history. it went from 71% before the pardon to 49% right after the pardon. it isve to remember difficult 40 years later to re-create the mood of the country, which had been through two years of hell. ford had been through almost a year during which he had to t heh every word he said les inadvertently give the impression he was part of an effort to push nixon out of office. >> was their suspicion in the

country there was some sort of deal between gerald ford and president nixon? did this testimony before the committee deflate that? >> that was the immediate reaction. no doubt about it. that was the immediate reaction on the part of some, not all. but again, you had been through this long period of time in which one incident after another inbined to undermine trust the executive branch of government. suddenly, there was this breath of fresh air in august of 1974. for a month or so, things seemed to be dramatically different. more open, more trustworthy. surprise if not the shock of most people, because there had been no preparation for this, on a sunday morning americans wake up and see their president on t.v. pardoning his predecessor. it would have been a surprise

had there not been that reaction. >> based on the questions, what did the committee want to hear from the president? what did they want to know? >> the committee wanted credible assurances there was no deal. that overwhelmingly was what they wanted to hear. it was interesting. they wanted to hear who he had discussed the pardon with, whether there had been discussions of a pardon between his taking office and the issuance of the pardon. they even wanted to know if he had had contact with mr. nixon during that month. they were specifically interested in henry kissinger as a nixon agent. they asked if he had discussed it with nelson rockefeller, his vice president designate. alexander haig was nixon's chief of staff and still chief of staff of the white house and had onn the precipitating agent august 1 when in two

conversations that day with gerald ford, he first hinted at made it seem imminent that ward would become president and tacked on almost as a footnote a series of obstacles including the pardon. >> the viewers will see that in the testimony. do you think the president was successful before the committee? >> i think he was successful. i think you'll see in the short term in terms of the reassurances he offered his colleagues. but it must also be said his colleagues who knew him best were perhaps most are disposed to believe him when he said it was no deal. the action of going before congress, which is

really the most rheumatic thing about all of this -- dramatic think about all of this, had a reinforcing quality to it. debate,ears since the it has moved on as to what the specifics and motives were, who intended what, what signals were sent to the larger issue of whether this was good for the country. i know from personal conversations with him that president ford went to his grave personally convinced there was no deal. proudcondly, enormously and reassured by the actions of the john f. kennedy library in 2001 when they gave him the profiles encouraging word, -- profiles in courage award specifically for this act. there was huge symbolism to that

gesture. >> do you think that testimony put the country on the road to healing? >> i think it did. that raw do not heal overnight. there will always be some people that object to the pardon on any number of grounds and don't believe it came about as innocently as ford said. >> there must of been frustration on the judiciary committee itself. they were making their way towards impeachment. >> you will see that. particularly dogged in her questioning and frustrated. one of the important things as you watch this testimony is that the committee operates under the clock. everyone gets five minutes, which is not enough to probe this in any great detail. there is a sense of frustration just beneath the surface. >> richard norton smith,

presidential historian, as always, thank you for being with us on american history tv. >> my pleasure. >> next, president ford's two-hour testimony before the criminal justice subcommittee on house judiciary on his pardon of president richard nixon. >> the subcommittee welcomes the president of the united states, gerald r. ford. we appreciate your willingness voluntarily to appear to respond to the questions posed in two privileged resolutions of