hoover's death which is actually dramatically in early october of 1964, a month before barry goldwater, you know, goes up for election, to the extent that barry and herbert are very close, in close communication over hoover's last death bed, there's a lot there. and so -- but i think the important story is not to try to raise up these two figures as heroes or like icons that had they just been listened to there would have been no cold war whatsoever. that is something i'm really resisting. i have no intention of going down. i think what's more interesting is seeing the different phases and kinds of influence they exerted over a period of time with different people that tells us much more about the complexity of america as a place where people really did debate these things very, very fervently. >> kevin kim, thank you for being on american history tv. >> thank you. thanks so much.

>> all weekend american history tv is featuring green bay, wisconsin. in 1919, the green bay packers are the only nonprofit community owned edgerly sports team in the u.s.. we work with our city tour staff when a recently traveled to green bay to explore the cities rich history. learn more about green bay all weekend here on american history tv. >> i tell people this is the greatest story in the history of sports. >> is that a touchdown or not? nobody wants to call anything. let's see what they're going to

do here. >> you look at the hoosiers, cinderella man, you name it, i don't think any of those stories beat the story of the green bay packers. the packers -- the true story is better than the myth. ,hat's one of the aspects of it david versus goliath. the fact that the packers made a name for themselves by beating teams from new york and chicago, when this was a city of under 40,000 people. nobody had any clue what they were creating in 1919 was going to involve into what it is today. the story goes that lambeau had dropped out of notre dame due to tonsillitis in august of 1919. he didn't have a team to play for. he met the sportswriter, sports editor of the local newspaper and suggested they get up a city team. from there the packers were created with the packing plant

sponsoring them. the packers were sponsored by the indian packing company in their first season, 1919. they purchased the uniforms and equipment. 1920, indian packing continued to have a role with the team. following that season, indian packing sold out to acme packing which was based in chicago. granted franchise was in 1921, by what is now the nfl, it was rented to the packers. the acme packing company may have done nothing more than to purchase a few uniforms and by the end of that season, that pretty much passed from the scene. what was interesting was when the packers were admitted to the were the21, they second smallest city with a population of about 30,000. even though the leak was comprised of small cities.

the smallest city was in new york. that scene lasted only one game. essentially the packers had been the smallest team in the nfl. since the beginning. directorsman board of and a seven-member executive committee runs the team, it is owned by shareholders, it's nonprofit, and all that came about in 1923 after a disastrous 1922 season where there was a private corporation that ran the team. the people who sat on the executive committee still our but in theeaders, beginning, those community other jobs, including the president, who controlled most of the people who took the lead in seeing to it that the franchise survived

ran lucrative businesses, corporations in the community. there was more tension paid to the packers than some of the other cities. the early nfl, that was part of the reason for the packers arrival. paul broun at one point to the packers were the only team with their own newspaper because they were so closely tied to the green -- to the "green bay press gazette." the founder of the team also worked for the newspaper and was active with both 420, 30 years. he played a big role in the team's survival. the first president of the packers was one of three owners of the publishers for "the green bay press gazette." because of that, the packers got great coverage. they didn't necessarily outdraw the smaller teams and other cities. they struggled to draw crowds. there was a high school rivalry between green bay east and green

bay west high schools. that came off and out through the packer games. they had to compete against those high school teams, and he said in west through packer-there names in the 1920's. there were a lot of fans, but it wasn't as though they were filling the stadium. green bay in the early years probably through better on the road than it did at home, partly because of the high school rivalry between east and west. partly, it was just the size of the city. fortunately, posing owners, players, and coaches love coming here in the 1920's. dan daly and bob o'donnell wrote in "pro football chronicles," which is a history of the national football league, that one of the reasons why they love coming here -- and i think it is very true -- was that this was an open city.

♪ ♪ there were speakeasies opened all over downtown that fans could go to after games, and there were also red light districts in the neighboring towns. whoever could go out and enjoy whatever they had to offer, and i think that was the reason that so many loved to come here. i don't want to cast any aspersions on joe carr, the president of the national football league, and a very upstanding moral, religious man, but when he brought his columbus team in 1922, they drew a very sparse crowd because of the heavy rainstorm. yet when he left town, he talked about how much his traveling party loved green bay, love the

opportunity to come here and play, and with a great football town it was. title town was a name that is reasons -- that the citizens of green bay came up with after the packers clinched their first conference championship under vince la guardia. they were due to play the new york giants at was -- at what was then city stadium. it was the first time green bay was the host and nfl championship game. they had won six championships during the curly lambeau years, but never played a postseason game in green bay. partly because of the playoff system and how it worked back then, and three of the championships were won before there were championship games. 1961 was going to be the first, and i still think that he might have produced more genuine excitement and enthusiasm than

any game in the history of the packers. it was a breakfast at the beaumont hotel where a number of prominent members of the community decided that they were going to call this title town for the next month and schedule a lot of festivities. the packers beat the new york giants 37-0. it was just a dominant performance. that is why it stuck. prior to the building of lambeau field, this team was perpetually on its deathbed. one crisis after another. these are pretty good times for the green bay packers. i'm guessing if you put your name on the season ticket waiting list today, maybe your great-grandson our daughter might get tickets in 50 years or more from now. the waiting list is extensive. there has been one since the 1960's. i don't think there are too many people who live here who aren't big packer fans. the city shuts down basically everywhere else but here on

sunday because of the interest in the team. if they aren't here, they are watching on television. it is traditional for people to work on fridays. when the packers win, lot more businesses get activity on mondays. one thing that the packers take more pride in, not only has this teen survived, but it has been the most successful in the history of the national football league. they have won 13 national championships. that is more than any other franchise. if i was speaking to somebody who had never heard of the team, i would say, have you ever heard of the national football league? the green bay packers are its most successful team.

>> throughout the weekend, american history tv is featuring green bay, wisconsin. our staff recently traveled there to learn more about its history. to learn more about other steps on the cities to her, go to c-span.org/localcontent. you are watching american history tv all weekend, every weekend on c-span3. >> next, a conversation with author fred coplan -- fred kaplan about john quincy adams, american visionary. although he was not remembered for being a great president, he argues john quincy adams was one of the most intellectual commanders in chief. the new york historical society hosted this hour-long event.