a third panel which is the administration, nhtsa. let's get right to it. we are appreciative lieutenant you'd be willing to step forward. first lieutenant united states air force stephanie erdman. graduate of university of texas, rotc graduate. one of her first duty stations of which she is a compliance and testing officer in the air force testing and evaluation command at the air force base. if you all can turn the posters, you can start to see something of the impact.

she was driving a 2002 honda. this is what happened to her. the shredded air bag just like the one that i showed you here on the left poster. this is what the car looked like. she had a passenger. you can see the air bag still inflated in the car. unfortunately -- and she has given us permission -- when the lieutenant was being carried to the hospital, that's what hah she looked like. so lieutenant erdman, if you would share with us your story of what happened. >> yes, sir. good morning everyone. ladies and gentlemen, my name is stephanie erdman. i'm honored to be here today to serve as the voice for the people who have been forever

silenced because of this exploding takata air bags. on behalf of everyone who has suffered because of these defective air bags, i would like to thank the committee for holding this hearing. i hope that no other families will have to go through the ordeal my family and i have had to endure because this happened to me. on september 1st, 2013 my life was changed forever. i was driving my 2002 honda civic on highway 98 near egg land air force base, florida where i was stationed. i was on my way to get groceries with a friend. as i was driving, a car took a left in front of me. our cars collided. when the impact occurred, shrapnel from my car's a air bag shot through the air bag cloth and embedded into my right eye and cheek. i was instantly blinded on my right side. i felt gushing blood running

down my neck and was terrified. when i got to the hospital, they did a ct scan of my face. a metallic foreign object had punctured my bone. the tip of the shrapnel had embedded in my right sinus. since that day, i've endured multiple surgeries and therapies. i have more to go still. my vision will never be the same. i will never be the same. my accident involved a moderate frontal impact. the headlights on the front of the vehicle weren't broken. my passenger had mild scrapes and bruises. i should not have been injured the way i was. the photo the emt took of me with shrapnel embedded in my eye is scary to look at. it's necessary to grab the attention of those that have the ability to do something and keep this from happening to anyone

else. it is easy to think i'm the only one who has suffered because of this accident. it's also been exceptionally tough on my family. they try to be strong for me, and i see it. i can tell that when ever i talk about it, they are also hurting. i know i have physical scars about this tragedy, but people who care about me have scars as well. they are just the kind you cannot see. these companies should have done everything they could. they claim they notified customers as soon as they found out about the problem. that they expanded the recalls as they learned about each set of additional potentially affected vehicles as soon as they could. i believe that the facts show differently. it has been six years since the first recall covering these deadly takata air bags just

starting at 3,9d the /* -- 3,9 40 vehicles turned into 7 million vehicles recalled. 40 v turned into 7 million vehicles recalled.40 vehicles turned into 7 million vehicles recalled. i do not understand how crossing the border simply means the vehicle is now safe. i do not also understand why the dealerships that sell vehicles and service them are not notifying customers. american honda motor companies claim they notified the honda certified dealership where i bought my civic about the recall for the driver's side air bag february 2010. i took my i car to the dealership for service three times after they received the information. the honda dealership never told me about the recall. never per formed the recall repairs on my vehicle and never

warned me about what might happen if air bags were deployed. honda claims they have sent a recall notice to my house in 2010. they have records showing that the information, envelope containing critical information was returned to them as undeliverable. instead of trying to notify me in another way, they did nothing to warn me. it is in honor of my family and friends that support me so very much that i ask the committee to demand real answers. it is an honor of family and friends of all who have been injured by these defective air bags that i ask the committee to insist that these companies explain why they waited to so long to identify all these potentially deadly vehicles. in honor of those that cannot be here today because they have been hurt or killed by dangerous products that i ask the committee to get to the bottom of why the companies did not try harder to warn us. i'm so honored to be here today to have the opportunity to tell my story. please understand i'm one of many people who have been affected by deadly air bags. i'm hopeful that congress will look at a way to improve the recall notification process. i hope there will be no more mothers taken from their

children or no more fathers blinded by the exploding air bags. i ask the committee to do everything in its power to make sure every vehicle with the defective air bags are made safe. thank you. >> we will do that lieutenant. >> thank you sir. >> you have our promise. that's why we had this hearing today. we want to thank you for the courage of you stepping forward to come and tell your story. between what the lieutenant has said and the pictures, i think you get the picture. so, with the committee's permission, i'd like to get right on into the next panel. thank you lieutenant. you are very kind. appreciate it. all right. if we could ask the next panel please to come up.

mr. hiroshi shimahzu. he is the senior vice president global quality assurance for the takata corporation manufacture of the air bags. mr. rick schostakic executive vice president of honda north america.

mr. scott kunselman, vehicle safety and regulatory compliance, chrysler corporation group. thank you for coming. please be seated. >> mr. shimahzu , we'll start with you. you are very accommodating to speak in english. this committee appreciates that. you have with you a translator if there's any difficulty and for you making the effort to speak in english today, we want you to know we appreciate it. mr. shimahzu. please proceed. >> thank you. chairman nelson and the ranking member and distinguished members of the committee. i am global vice president for the takata corporation. i am honored to appear before this committee to honor the

corporation on important issues and examination of today's hearing. takata's commission is make products to save lives and prevent serious injuries. whenever one of our products does not perform as expected, it is our first priority to understand the root of causes of the issue. if we identify a program in a product design, production or insulation, we do not hesitate to take necessary steps to insure that the program is addressed promptly and appropriately. all of us at takata know that air bag problems that have been in recent recalls involve public

important issues of public safety. even though millions of takata air bags have inflated properly and and are saving lives and avoiding serious injuries in hundreds of thousands of accidents, any failure of an air bag to perform as designed in an automobile accident is incompatible with takata standards for highest projections. we are deeply sorry about each of the reported instances in which a takata air bag has not performed as designed and the driver or passenger had suffered personal injuries or deaths.

our sincerest condolences go out to all those who have suffered in these accidents and to their families. takata is working closely with auto makers and nhtsa to support ongoing recalls. we are devoting extra ordinary resources to producing on the schedule necessary to fulfill all auto makers orders. we are also devoting extensive efforts to attention to answering the quest for information about motors from nhtsa and other investigators. we are fully transparent with the government. takata strongly agrees with statement by nhtsa on november 9, 2014 that the current forecast of ongoing productions and recalls should remain the specific of height of humility. we support the view that these must be the priority for

depressment of suspect. it is imperative all owners of affected vehicles in these regions respond to legal notices at earliest opportunity. we are confident that the air bag takata is producing today including the replacement of recalled units are safe. we have confidence in the integrity of our engineering and our current manufacturing processes. we believe that properly manufactured and installed air bag we are producing today will work as designed to save lives for expected life of automobiles. while each instance of an air bag failure is terrible and unacceptable to takata, it is also important to remember that takata air bags continue to deploy properly as they were designed in accidents. our air bags are helping to save

lives and prevent injuries on the road everyday. as we move forward, takata will continue to cooperate with operators and government regulators and will take whatever actions are determined to be necessary in the public interest. that will best advance the goal of safety for driving public. finally, as the committee is, english is not my native language. i'll do my best to answer questions english. i may need assistance from interpreter. >> of course you'll have that assistance. one of the things we want you to answer season about the change to immonium nitrate and problems

that occurred after. >> you are representative of honda, being the executive vice president of honda north america. talk to us also about the recalls and provisions of loaners and or rental cars. mr. schostakic. >> thank you chairman nelson, senator and members of the committee. my name is rick schostakic. i'm executive vice president with honda north america. on behalf of 28,000 employees in the u.s., 1300 automobile dealers and more than 600 north american suppliers, thank you for the opportunity to be here today. i want to begin by expressing our deepest sympathies to those individuals and families who have been affected by these incidents. we offer sincere apologies to families of those that have died, to those that have been injured including lieutenant

eredman, and to those who have been in any way inconvenienced due to detects in takata air bags in our vehicles. air bags save thousands of lives each year, but we recognize even one customer who is injured or loses their life when an air bag does not perform as intended is one too many and is completely unacceptable. we understand the urgency of the current situation and are taking proactive steps to encourage honda and acura owners to get vehicles repaired. specifically to meet the needs of our customers related to these air bag recalls, we've posted written messages prominently on our websites to reassure customers we have procedures in place to address their individual needs. customers with affected vehicles who desire alternative transportation until their car is fixed have access to loaner

cars and rental vehicles at no cost to the customer. we are working in our service and parts divisions with our dealer network to insure that replacement inflaters are available when and where they're needed. like many auto makers, honda looks to takata for supply of air bag components because takata was an internationally recognized safety systems supplier. as the manufacture of the complete vehicle, we relied on takata for expertise in this specific area of technology. we provided our performance requirements and takata designed the air bag components to those criteria. beginning with the 2001 model year, takata began to supply honda with a new generation of air bag components. by 2004, we had sold several million vehicles equipped with these takata air bags. it was then in 2004 when we learned of an air bag inflaters

rupture in one of our vehicles and report had the to nhtsa. this remained the only air rupture we were aware of until three years later. since 2007, we have been involved in a safety investigation of takata air bag inflaters. takata identified specific manufacturing issues as the primary factors of the rupture events. starting with the recall in november 2008, with every subsequent recall, we gathered component parts from the time period that a core responded to takata issues and provided those to takata for further investigation. additionally, we recalled vehicles that were outside of the range takata identified for the purpose of additional analysis. as new evidence identified new risks, honda acted to expand our recall population.

the investigation process has since 2007 been designed to replace defective takata inflaters and seek out data a using the public recall process. the investigation continues to this day. with regard to the 2004 inflater rupture, takata advised us their analysis demonstrated that it had distinctly different characteristics compared to ruptures that led to the first recall. at honda, the founding principle of our company places the highest priority on quality of products and satisfaction of our customers. now, today, we are operating with even greater energy and greater focus to quickly address our customer's needs.

with every action of our company, dedicating ourselves to honor the relationship we have with our customers. thank you. >> mr. schostek, you didn't say anything about loaners or rental cars. >> mr. chairman, i believe i did. customers with affected vehicles who desire transportation in the form of loaners or rental cars have them available to them at no cost. >> immediately? >> we have them in place now sir. >> for all dealers across the country? >> we've expanded our loaner program and have the option of rental cars. we will take care of our customers sir. >> let the record show that's been said. we have certainly had contrary information to this point. if that's the case, i certainly

want to congratulate you for the obvious reasons. all right. mr. kunselman, regulatory compliance and safety at chrysler. >> thank you. chairman nelson, ranking member thune, members of the committee. i am the senior vice president and head of vehicle safety and regulatory compliant at chrysler group. i lead an organization with a mission of safeguarding customers, a mission we embrace wholeheartedly. i'd like to thank the opportunity with the opportunity to appear today to discuss this important matter. today's automobiles are most complex on the market. auto manufactures are more committed to developing advanced safety technologies to reduce fatalities and injuries resulting from motor vehicle crashes. on a daily basis, we work to design, engineer and manufacture vehicles to withstand a myriad of operating conditions.

promoting and insuring vehicle safety is a responsibility shared by auto makers, suppliers, government, and consumers. chrysler looks forward to continuing this collective engagement with takata and nhtsa to address the current situation. chrysler group has been actively engaged with takata and nhtsa since takata first informed us in april 2013 that certain air bag inflaters used by other auto manufactures may malfunction on deployment. these inflaters described by the population have been linked to four fatalities. this group of inflaters has never been used in our vehicles. our vehicles were equipped with takata beta population inflaters. in april 2013, takata insured us the performance that led to the recall had been corrected. chrysler group engineers subsequently conducted a follow up investigation and confirmed

the beta inflaters benefitted there the upgrading process n. october 2013, we learned that one of our vehicles in southern florida was subject to a high pressure deployment involving a driver's air bag and causing a personal injury. this remains the one incident of its kind involving one of our vehicles. in response to this incident and working with takata, we launched an investigation and conducted component testing. in may of 2014, takata again advised chrysler group of four incidents involving vehicles produced by other auto manufactures. those vehicles were equipped with takata inflaters similar to inflaters used in our vehicles. then in june of 2014, this year, chrysler group announced plans to replace inflaters in certain vehicles registered or purchased in four areas known for high humidity, a factor believed to

have played a role in these deflators. our action covers 371 vehicles in florida, hawaii, puerto rico and virgin islands. the alpha inflaters are associated with the most severe events, substantially higher incident rate, and were found to contain a designed manufacturing defect. none of our vehicles were built with alpha inflater population. again our vehicles were equipped with beta inflaters. in our vehicles, these are known to have deployed as intended more than 10,000 times in the u.s. and 830 times in the areas that i just mentioned that are covered by our field action. as i previously stated, there's one incident involving a high pressure deployment in one of

our vehicles that took place in florida, a state covered by the renounced action. chrysler group works with nhtsa a as the situation evolves and will give additional information that the company received november 18th. in closing, i would like to reiterate our believe that promoting and insuring vehicle safety and responsibility shared by auto makers, suppliers, government consumers. chrysler group with work with at with takata and others. >> was that deployment in south florida alpha or beta? >> from the beta population. >> and therefore of those that are in your vehicles, are you providing loaners and rental cars until they can get it fixed? >> as we deploy our field

action, we'll have rental cars available to those that need them. i reiterate our number one goal that you suggested is to have the parts available and quickly service the product. that's our number one goal. when that can't be accomplished we'll make loaner cars available. >> you said that's not until the middle of december? >> we launch that in the middle of december when parts are available to initiate this action. >> do they get rental and loaner cars in the next three weeks? >> in three weeks time, concerned customers can contact us through our hotline. and we'll on a case by case basis address those needs. >> thank you for making that clear. >> yes, sir. >> thank you mr. chairman. >> you mentioned in your written testimony that you have confidence in your engineering and manufacturing processes. my question is what changes have you made to your manufacturing processes that give you the confidence to testify that the replacement takata air bags are

in fact safe? >> senator, let me explain about history of recalls. every time since 2007 or '08 time period, we have some issues identified. there is -- we identify the root of cause of the issues and we addressed issues to fix problems at same time we did recall. every time we identify problems and address issues and take care of. currently we believe the products we are producing right now are come from manufacturing processes. we believe it's this product that works as designed and are safe.

>> what change have you made in that process that leads you to believe that? >> yes. there are two major cause of problems according to what we studied in the past. one is this issue. pressed from the powder recontrolled the compression force to get the certain density in -- however, in the beginning of the productions, that's the force control is not well. as we expected according to investigation. we change the press machines. now that new press machines can control the compression force for each cylinder. at same time we have the device

which if compression force is not as designed, then it is detect that failure and the device would reject this problem. this device will take care of issues of compression force over you can say density issues. the other one is humidity control. immonium nitrate has many advantage to use that however it is known sensitive to humidity. we put special control of the humidity during processes of

appropriate manufacturing and also assemblies. however, because of the issue exist in the past and also the humidity controls so we since then we control the humidity during process in the plant much better so since then we can control the humidity much better. while we are manufacturing. >> there are media reports as i referenced earlier that takata may have been aware of the dangerous air bag defects as early as 2004.

i know you've denied those allegations in the media, but we need answers from an independent source. about when takata became aware of the defect and if it was hid frn nhtsa. they reported on the ignition switch issue. will takata initiate an investigation and release a public report about whether there was any wrongdoing? >> according to the record of communication i confirmed, the date says may 2005. the communication picture court my understanding we started communication in 2005. if there were any communications before that point, i am not aware of that because i was not directly involved. but, again, the record i confirmed shows that the date may 2005. but at that time, only pictures available, no air bag -- not available at that point.

so we check the production record and at that time picture shows anomaly. however, the old records we checked doesn't show any system error. we reported back to the automakers. >> but will you initiate some sort of independent investigation? i know what you're talking about, some of the things you looked into, but i think there's a real concern here that perhaps isn't as independent as it could be. so have you given thought or would you initiate an independent investigation where someone outside the people can take a look at these things and report back about whether or not there was wrongdoing and if not, why wouldn't you do that? >> senator, since i was not directly involved at that time, i can't answer your question. >> i understand you can't at that time. but prospectively now, would

that be something -- i think for most of us that's something that would make sense, to have somebody that's independent take a look at this, examine this, and similar to what general motors did with the ignition switch issue. >> yes, senator, i agree with that. and we have the independent center to check material and processes, too, so actually we are doing this recently but maybe not at that time. >> okay. we can revisit that issue. very quickly, if i might, mr. chairman, mr. schostek, there are, as we heard from lieutenant erdmann, when she referenced that her vehicle was serviced multiple times at dealerships and after the recall but prior to the tragic accident, is there not some policy where your dealers, when

actually someone brings in a car like that, would at least notify the customer of some of these safety matters that she didn't receive notification until three days after her accident? >> indeed, senator, there is such a policy and we failed lieutenant erdmann and our dealer failed lieutenant erdmann. we heard her speak about notifications from honda she did not receive, so we did not effectively get word to her of her recalled vehicle. in addition, as she told you, she brought the car to a honda dealer for other service. her vin number was not checked. and as a result we lost opportunities to repair her vehicle. we failed miss -- lieutenant erdmann and the dealer failed lieutenant erdmann. we have a policy. our dealers are independent franchisees, as you know. we communicate to them regularly about the importance of checking each car when it comes in for service to see if there are any

outstanding recalls. we communicated that in march of this year. we've communicated that a week or so ago. very often we're doing that. if you'd also look at the complete testimony they made, we are endeavoring to continuously improve way we reach out to customers. i have to say the populations involved in these recalls are older vehicles. it is harder to track down the current owner. that is not an excuse. we have to do better. we failed lieutenant erdmann. our dealer failed lieutenant erdmann. >> and because they're older vehicles that would seem like the ideal time when somebody brings it in. >> i agree, senator thune. to our everlasting regret, we missed those opportunities. >> and in the mail, we're finding out, isn't the most effective way to get that message out there. and these dealerships may be dropping the ball. so i'm interested in knowing

what you intend to do to improve the current policy of chrysler in the future. and my time's up, mr. chairman, but if i could get mr. kunselman quickly to respond to chrysler's policy and what we're going to do differently. >> certainly. shim to what mr. schostek said, our policy is through the dealership to communicate to consumers when they come to the dealership what open recalls are on their vehicle. in fact, the electronic systems automatically has this information. it's readily available. they don't have to work very hard to find it. it is our policy that they not only communicate but make every effort not to have that consumer leave the dealership without scheduling or performing that service. on site. >> i would suggest that the next three weeks might be critical and that you all need to be

forward leaning on that. and, mr. schostek, thank you for stepping forth and taking some responsibility, specifically with regard to the lieutenant. and mr. shimizu, i would urge you, as senator thune has requested, and this committee will follow up, that this independent inquiry be quick and swift. and public. >> thank you for holding this hearing. thank you to our witnesses. i really believe there has to be a full investigation of what happened here, and i say this on behalf of a victim in my state, who was driving in her car in north oaks, minnesota. it was a 2002 bmw, but this actually happened in 2013.

and there had not been a recall, and that air bag exploded in her face, and she is permanently blind. that's why this looking back and trying the figure out what happened is very important to me. why did it take takata years to realize this? when did takata know that the defective part was not limited to certain honda dealers? and did takata conduct secret tests on those air bags and not report the findings? those are ke key questions on behalf of this constituent in addition to the fact of how nhtsa handled this, which i'm sure we'll be dealing with with the next fanl. my first question, mr. schostek, is honda has been aware of these air bags for years and you issued the first recall back in 2008 and since then it has expanded multiple times. why do it that way? why doesn't honda just order one

expansive recall from the outset and avoid these additional recalls? >> yes, senator. in 2007 we saw a series of inflator ruptures defects and began our investigation. in working with takata, they identified specific manufacture problems in their manufacturing plants that were related to the time those invape flai or thes were produced which we put into our cars. we recalled based on that information. we expanded the recall, then another different manufacturing issue was brought to our attention by takata. and in all, we did four recalls from 2008 through 2011. i think it's important for the committee to understand that those four recalls which we did had not geographic boundary. they had no geographic boundary and the injuries that occurred,

45 injuries because of rupture in honda vehicles, 43 of those correlate to the time of those takata manufacturing concerns. and to our regret, all four fatalities correspond to that same time. so we're talking about recalls that were done 2008 to 2011 because of different manufacturing issues that takata made us aware of and pretty strong data that shows this is what where the majority of the problems have been occurring, and those recalls were national -- were -- not -- >> i wasn't saying they were regionally limited. just you have these recall after recall after recall when clearly there's these red flags.

the reason it matters so much so this constituent who's permanently blind is this was in 2013. it just seems -- it's a different manufacturer. but if takata had done a more global look at what was happening on a -- global i mean in all their air bags, i don't think this would have happened. so to you, mr. shimizu, and that is a november 6th "new york times" article stated takata secretly conducted tests in 2004 at your auburn hills location in response to the rere lease of metal fragments issue with the honda accord. according to the article, the steel inflators allegedly cracked during the tests and takata ordered the testing data deleted and the air bag inflators destroyed. takata has disputed the report saying the report was based son some misunderstandings. what specifically about the report was inaccurate? >> yes, senator. again, it's regarding the incident of honda vehicle in

2004 according to my knowledge it was informed to takata in may of 2005. there is no way we can do any test relating to that unfortunate incident before hand. and also the series of incident happened in 2007, and at that time we actually started investigation about the -- to identify the problem. and that time we have the series of tests of the inflators, and all test result since 2007, that's the starting point of the investigation by us, is shareded with automakers and also nhtsa. with automakers and also nhtsa. >> okay. so just to get to the -- go back to 2004 another time or in writing, but my issue is my constituent got blinded.

of course she was driving a bmw, but it had received documentation from takata indicating that bmw vehicles were not affected. so what documentation did takata provide to bm sfwhshgs because, remember, this is post 2007 now. we're not back in 2004. we're in 2013. so i'm asking specifically about bmw. and if you don't know, you can send it to me later, but i would like to know what documentation was provided to bmw about their situation. because they told nhtsa they knew about hoon da's problems with recalls, that they had received documentation from takata indicating that bmw vehicles were not affected. >> senator, can i confirm one thing? is it driver's side air bag? >> i believe it's driver's side. >> yes.

let me answer best on what i know. we do the recall of honda vehicles at that time, and as you know, senator, multiple times is called psdi. it's dual-stage driver's side inflator. other time the bmw, we supplied to bmw is psd i-4. and the psdi-4 is a structure of the inflator. looks same from our side but different from psdi and produced in a different line so, that's the major reason the psdi was recalled. but we answer to the bmw the psdi-4 is a different structure so it won't be affected.

>> so this is my last question. when did you become aware that there were problems with the bmw? air bags. >> i'm sorry. i'm not familiar. i don't know the actual date. >> all right. thank you. >> just so it's clear to everybody, what we're talking about, this is the steering -- middle of the steering wheel. this is the inflator. and it fits in there. and then when the impact occurs, the explosion is supposed to come this way, but as we said earlier, if the explosive force is too great, it breaks off this metal and the metal starts

coming through the middle. every one of us at this hearing table has had constituents affected by this. in florida, right in central florida, we've had one death. and in the case of corey berdicht, a firefighter, he has no eye now for the rest of his life. very similar to the situation of the lieutenant, but in this case the metal had penetrated his actual eye. so this is why we're so concerned about this an to get to the bottom of this. senator ayotte. >> i want to thank the chairman and ranking member for holding this very important hearing. i wanted to follow up, mr. shimizu, with -- on a question that senator had asked you about in regard to the report in "the new york times"

about the 2004 secret tests by takata. as i heard your testimony in response to her question, you said that takata wasn't informed until 2005 about a particular incident? and what incident was that? >> incident is happened 2004 at the honda vehicles. and according to whey know the driver was injured. >> okay. and then you said there were a series of incidents in 2007 that prompted an investigation within takata. >> yes. >> when was nhtsa first notified? of any of this? >> it's -- according to my lawyers, three incidents happened during the year of

2007. that's actually what led to deeply investigate the cause of the problems. >> why wasn't with the -- with the 2005 incident, was there any investigation conducted within takata? >> we did. we received the picture, not exact module, but we received the picture and our engineers [ inaudible ] based on the serial number provided. and then we, as i said, our engineer recognized anomaly from the picture. however, all record doesn't show

any system error or abnormality from the personal record. and then at that time, there not enough technical evidence to lead to further investigation or action at that time. >> so you didn't take any further steps to investigate the anomaly that your engineers saw? did you report it to anyone or did you talk to nhtsa about it or honda or anyone else? >> according to my understanding, we didn't inform the nhtsa but we report back to honda. >> throughout this, i would like to understand whether takata believes that, as it receives reports -- and i'd like to also inquire of mr. schostek from honda -- when it received reports of both incidents of injury and unfortunately these horrible incidents of death, when do you believe that you reported them to nhtsa? and do you believe you have complied with the tread act? >> want me to answer that, senator? and if i might, to supplement the discussion you've been having with mr. shimizu, the first event of a rupture in a honda vehicle occurred in 2004.

we received notice of that event through our legal department in may of 2004. we are still checking our records, but as mr. shimizu said, what we can find now is we provided that information to takata in 2005. we did report that 2004 event on our tread report, which is provided to nhtsa. as we were discussing, in 2007, there were several events. and it was at this time that we and takata engaged in the beginnings of an investigation. ultimately in that investigation, takata has made up a presentation that show the 2007 events and the manufacturing efficiencies that cause the defect and also

compared it to that 2004 event. the 2007 event, those manufacturing times clearly show improper density in the inflator propellant. the 2004 event ultimately, it was fully investigated, and it shows a proper density for the inflator propellant. so it's not an excuse, senator, but that information -- that information we could have gleaned maybe in 2004 would not have helped us predict the events in 2007. as i look back on our activity, i think we acted with urgency. but do i think there are -- we could have moved fastener some respects? i absolutely do. have we met our obligations to

report tread? we have not. and i think as the committee may know we have an ongoing internal review about that process. that information is due to be provided by honda to nhtsa on this coming monday. we will provide it on time and share with them any gaps or deficiencies in our tread reporting at that time. >> i know my time is expired here but let me just say that i echo the comments of my colleagues. this really does warrant a thorough investigation because because these time frames, the reporting requirements, the questions that have been raised, and as you know, gm undertook this activity with regard to the ignition switch. and given the seriousness of this matter, i would think that takata and honda would want to undertake the same. so let me urge you to do that as well. and my time is up, but mr. kunselman, let me just say

i'm troubled about the december 19th piece because i think you should, instead of waiting for people to call you with concerns, should affirmatively reach out to your customers while they're wait till december 9th regardless of how you view the beta air bag differently than the alpha. so i think that -- i'm very concerned about that december 19th date. thank you. >> thank you, senator i ai ottawa, for underscoring that point. senator hiller. >> mr. chairman, thank you. and to the ranking member, thank you also for having this and holding this hearing. mr. shimizu, i did read your testimony. and it does discuss your anguish. and i can understand that. your commitment to addressing this issue properly and promptly.

however, i think there was something that was amiss in your testimony, and that was that nowhere does it say that takata takes full responsibility. so i want to ask you right now, does takata take full responsibility for this tragic defect? >> can i ask my interpreter to confirm your question? >> sure. >> senator, can i confirm the tragic this time -- which tragic are you talking about? >> i'm talking about the five deaths. >> the five deaths. five deaths. >> do you take full responsibility for those tragic deaths? does takata take responsibility? >> excuse me.

i understand it's -- we recognize the three victims' case is relling to our product, and -- during accident, but my understanding to others are still under investigation. >> so, okay. let's take the three. does takata take full responsibility for those three deaths? >> my understanding is our products in this accident worked abnormally so, that cause accident. from that sense, yes. >> okay. mr. schostek, i got a phone call from my wife recently.

a "good morning america" piece was done on this issue. and she's probably doing what every parent is doing in america today. we happen to own a 2007 honda civic. and we didn't buy it brand new. so we probably didn't get recall notices on that. and my wife would remember if she did. and i'm going to give to you the same question that she asked me. if our 18-year-old daughter were to drive that car today, a 2007 honda civic, would she be safe? >> senator, we have several different analyses of what the problems are with these air bags in our vehicles. as i mentioned before, the recalls that we did in 2008 through 2011 we have connected those to takata manufacturing

issues, and we urge customers -- and those have no geographic limits. we urge customers to get those vehicles repaired because there is a risk. there is a risk. with regard to the more recent regional recalls, where there is not as much information available as to what is the cause of the ruptures in the air bags, there is a concern about humidity, and we have the same concern about humidity. we look at the 45 injuries that have occurred, 17 of them have occurred in florida, also puerto rico and texas. the large majority of these issues are occurring in southern areas. so we are trying to understand if there is any additional risk out there. when we find risk, we act to recall. it's our responsibility to recall those vehicles when we

find risks. >> as a parent, we did run the vin number through nhtsa's site, and they said that a 2006 or earlier vehicle would have been subject to the recall but not 2007. how can you assure me today that a 2007 vehicle is safe for any young adult on the road to drive today? >> senator, with your indulgence and understanding that i'm not sure of all the exact models as i sit here, you know, the break points in terms of the recalls, if that vehicle was subject to a recall, we want it fixed. if that vehicle is not subject to recall, we would not deem it risks and deem it safe for the driver. >> we had a conversation earlier in my office and you said it was difficult to determine the safety of the device because of proprietary reasons. would i be accurate in assuming that you can't be 100% assured,

not knowing what the necessary changes that were made in these air bags? >> senator hiller, we are not chemical propellant experts. as honda, there is proprietary technology involved. there have been improvements made by takata as time has gone on. for example, there's been -- there's differences in the shape of the propellant wafer. i'm not an engineer. it makes sense that different shape may result in a better manufacturing process, but respectfully, senator, i would defer questions about the intellectual property and the proprietary aspects of the chemistry to takata. >> thank you. mr. chairman, my time has run out, but i think i represent every parent across america concerned with their young adults in the cars that they're driving today as to whether or not they have an air bag sitting in front of them today that may

cause severe injuries, as we've heard in testimony today and even death. so anyway, thank you. >> senator heller, let the record show that the pauses that occurred to your two direct questions to the two gentlemen, that those pauses i can say for this senator were painful, and perhaps on the basis of mr. schostek's response you better tell your daughter not to drive south in her honda.